AWS Advanced Motorsports Seminar 4130 Chrome Moly | TIG Time

[Music] thanks guys the last time that I was in this never the rowboats was about 20 years ago I went to a town called meet bill yep the tooling capital or that's what it was but I got the coal so you guys never let me back though how many students are here first time students what a few of you I get this question asked a lot first of all my name is Wyatt swing when we do here my trade and I got into it by accident when I say that I've always thought the welding I got started welding very much like a lot of you do you do a project in the house and I was in high school and I got fairly good at doing that stick welding you know until and I did vertical up and it was a little tougher when I went overhead that's when my life changed because I'm gonna be welding stick overhead okay so you recognize the sound or the sizzle yes some some of that goes into your ear and now as soon as I heard that the first time it was so horrifying they decided to get into a totally different profession of welding and that's where TIG welding came into play but here's how the story goes I can ask how I really did get into it and I can attribute it to my mother in law many people can say that their career was developed because of their mother in law well what had happened is that I had gone to a little college in Kansas this this college was a great college it was hands-on and the morning you had Welding classes in the evening you had engineering classes a great combination there's only two year program and after two years I got married and a mother-in-law was at my house so often that I moved I was in I was in little town just outside of Wichita Kansas and I moved in because I was sick of it I'm just absolutely sick now I wanted my career did well like I just didn't know exactly what I wanted to do so I already had the hands-on skills yeah and I moved to California it's quite a change so I get there I've got a wife and I've got a little boy and I needed a job so I opened up the newspaper editor it was an ad and it said welders wanted wow this is great so I go to this place it's called Campbell shipyard you hear a good little shipyard yeah it's a pretty rough environment and so I like wait a minute and I'm filling out this application there's a guy next to me it looks like Popeye and he's got the tattoos and he's gruff and he's watching me fill out this application he says says son you had a well aluminum I said look yes sir I do I said what about stainless well yeah I do you do that Healey archetype welding real thin stuff I said love it he says you don't want to be here you don't want to be here and he says over 50 percent for the people in this particular shipyard for ex-cons this is a rehab area and we teach him how to weld said okay so what should I do he says I got it I got a place I would like for you to go and he opens up this book and he rips out the page points that he says go to this company right here again I took it from you and I went to that company and got a job little did I know that it's on the space shuttle program so my career got started because of my mother and I appreciate it so I got started in a narrow space and it just continued from there I got into electron beam welding got into titanium pretty high levels anybody ever hear of skunkworks it's a sr-71 it's really build an aircraft stop secret you build it in about two years now most aircraft secret aircraft take about 20 years to develop but this is the shortcut so that's what I did and I accidentally came across a company called link electric guy came into my office and said I would I would like to hire you as a consultant I said to do what link Electric I got you the largest willing company in the world what do you need help in and they said aerospace we don't have a lot of strength in aerospace so that's how of my involvement got associated with Lincoln Electric and part of the part of the contribution that I bring to Lincoln is I represent you the welder yeah that's what they want who wants to go into a meeting you have the president come in and say this is how we're gonna build things and this is how it's gonna be done well Marty has to say yes because that's where he gets his paycheck but at the end of the meeting they come to me and say well what do you think and I would just say look I don't like it they go wait a minute what do you what do you mean you don't like it look you're trying to weld aerospace and it's not like welding a half inch thick material you've got weld knife edges you got a well on the edge here and you don't have a machine little bit they didn't want to hear that so they said we'd like to sign you up to a contract so I've been battling with Linc Electric since 1980 and it's a love-hate relationship I'm the welder they're the manufacturer yeah that's a sweet way to heaven wouldn't have it any other way so I got into a couple of programs that Lincoln has in his Motorsports they said hey how would you like to would you like to go the Indy 500 be the trackside welder okay I guess I could do that as you like get involved in NASCAR oh darn let me think about it for a while okay I can do that well in in 2003 I sold my aerospace company and then I started doing almost full-time and I say almost full-time for link electrically mostly Motorsports so got heavily involved and I want to share with you today a couple of crashes that we've had it's kind of interesting how how crashes occur and how the different independent NHRA Nvidia here in each area how they respond to it and usually they don't respond the correct way because they just don't know they have a crash how do you how do you know constant so I want to start off and I'm going to I want to describe who is using 4130 chromoly no material anybody use 4130 here very popular it's a tubing's been around for years and years and years and years and all you have to do is well with the right filters and the right techniques and the right gas and everything is fine so sometimes you hear called chrome moly 4130 chromoly there's all kinds of abbreviations for it but I just want to show you a few people that are using it right now as we speak okay now now this particular cars is a funny corner it has the same Ninja 10,000 horsepower but it's shortened now this car really has a problem because it is shorter and it takes the torques and the loads and everything else but before we go into the next slide I need for you to show me something that can't back in 2006 now this happen to be a guy his name is Cory Mac yeah he was driving this top fuel dragster the long one and he had a failure and I want to see if you can recognize word the failure took place because this is a part of this class you have to pass this test okay there's only gonna become a questions on it so Cory Mac called me said he get a bad crash and you'll see it at the committed but he said it's really strange the tires have tendency to blow with these cars you're running at 9,500 rpm so when a tire blows and it just gets a little bit of rubber slapping and we've lost your iris because of that so now what happens is almost every card that has crash and blame it on the tire watch this oh why 300 miles an hour and he has this type of crash now now that you know that he called me he said that he felt his butt drag on this crash look real close to the bottom of the car something is dragging he's in look at Cory he's up here he's he's almost at 300 miles an hour that's not a good day and they'll show you one he's only my little two-minute he did he did end it was unbelievable his sense of humor right after that was normal I think you don't need sound like this I just I just want to show you how we get involved as welding and metallurgist and it tried to define what happened is we're going to show you what we do is is metallurgist to show the world what happened now this leads up to a crash they got to tell you about 99 I'm sorry 2004 st. Louis there was a Darryl Russell Darryl died in Israel and the entire block and the explanation was that it was just what happens in racing it happens you blew a tire and it was blown off there was no longer a safety issue until this fresh tape now we're 2006 still nothing was done because nobody knew to do anything now we know there's a problem here because the frame was so long we know that it may snap may twist all kinds of crazy things can happen but in in 2007 and we just keep going up in the air still nothing has happened in 2007 I got a phone call Don Schumacher Schumacher racing and Don called me I was at the racetrack he says I got your number I don't know who you are but I need to ask you about welding 4130 chromoly he says under race for years we're having trouble well repairing our race cars never had that problem before he says is there anything that you can do to shed some light on I said sir 41:30 is very apparent she does unless we like that but I just want to talk to you and I didn't hear any other point of reference one and then what happened in 2007 in March of 2007 it was a guy by the name of Eric Medlen that was at the racetrack he was after the Gatornationals now when I say after what happens they do practice runs after everything has done the following Monday morning and they're tuning in they're testing they're doing all kinds of crazy things and Eric he didn't have the cameras watching him didn't have anything all he hit us is a mechanic with him and he took off from the line and his left tire blew and the left tire started slapping the cage and the cycle 9,500 rpms should his brain and he died it required an investigation this guy is that godson John Force and remember that date 2007 March fast forward to I want to say that had been later in the summer almost near the end of the season it was a guy named with John Force got into the same crash he had a funny car same type of funny car same type of engines and everything now we're starting to see a pattern so John Force takes off from the line and we're going to show you what happened here what you'd watch it very closely because when he get some fresh line watch the camera and how it was in on the car and just so you know jump horse isn't with the car so he crosses over he gets Kenny Bernstein had a bad day there I thought the safety team chases the car and I remember that very okay so the secret time he gets there very quickly he's not in the car so let's watch it again watch what happens to the back half the carpus camper guys in the attention so he hits 315 miles an hour he hits a button we have two parachutes that come out they they don't come out at the same time they're offset purposely so they come out in the g-force that reversed G's of so much that the car splits in half he stays with the parachute and the two back wheels so he stayed with a parachute he came down his knees were Dingling over the frame when he came down he came down on his kneecaps hands and knees had leather gloves which did very low and broken ankle and scraped off his kneecaps he was he was in bad shape and there's nothing crazy because what happens in a crash like that it goes to a full investigation and believe it or not there in shirt is these guys are insurance so the insurance company gonna say I think it says don't touch his car leave it alone we're gonna find out we're gonna get to the bottom of this because we're having to pay out all its big dollars and they investigated for about three months they came up with nothing zero it's racing tire blew same excuse that you hear all along all along it's been a tire until John forced call this director was in the hospital he was no longer in coma he was in pain but everyone button I think morphine [Music] psychology says hey you guys you guys still look for an investigation on this you said yeah well he says I'm mad as hell I lost my godson I didn't ever lost my own life so is there anything you can do to city diagnosed and what the problem is so we'll give it a try so went over the shop Brownsburg Indiana upstairs he had this friend in the insurance company had already checked it out did ever think they were gonna do and said here it's yours do what so we went to a high-stress area and cut out a section and I want to share that with you today because you're gonna see what ISIL and in the beginning you're going to say we don't see anything but at the end you will so I could come over here IndyCar uses 4130 chromoly keep going next you know these guys that's the bad guy they're starting these 4130 chromoly it took many years go ahead to the next one experimental aircraft they use 41:30 ok let's stop here for a minute we're gonna go back to this in a minute this guy right here built his own powered parachute he won the long-distance contest now this particular parachute is a strap-on put on your back it's about 228 horsepower and he's got a hand control she's got a parachute on the ground and he takes off running and he's increasing the horsepower or the prop speed on his back by the time he hits the step number six he's airborne so he runs like crazy and then BOOM he's up he's up and over the trees doing this runs at 26 miles an hour not very fast can't get any more out of it 26 miles an hour they happen to know I own one but this this is crazy if you build your own before you better make sure you willing it correctly so the guys sitting there with this little D key trophy and biggest smile on his face he said I won the long-distance contest listen from where notice this posh posh Wisconsin 800,000 he won the long-distance contest for a pair of parachutes meaning he left his house and he went further than anybody else I said worry little said Chattanooga Tennessee 707 lat - she had a new Tennessee 26 miles an hour now what happens if you get a 30 mile an hour hit with your floor so I said you know what I gotta ask you how did you kind of do plan this he says it was hard he says he just follows the highways it was a map that he strapped to this to his wrist everything is sudden control the the maximum fuel capacity you can have or they call part 103 I mean do you have have a license dirty you can buy it and go this is five gallons will last me about two and a half hours okay you do the math so you go okay so you have to land on every there really at 80 or 90 miles yeah that's true so where do you land yeah see somebody's here with you is this your wife yeah yeah she's a chase vehicle but she's just there she just doesn't want to fly I said you keep extra fuel in the main I think it was none I just that's land there's a gas station is the land can be pretty mission in your in your bubble I mean interstate you name you see you know mobile you just landed the part of mine filming up five gallons here's your money and he takes off running six steps he's off I said okay now how much how much food you prepare does your wife have a cooler there huh no I see the golden arches land hotel land problem took him two and a half weeks so I put this in the program I keep sharing it because I've just never seen anything quite like it and all the adventures of I've had this this one's interesting yeah there was one little thing that he mentioned doing that powers in the air because we yeah before I could ask me those it answers yes okay was just wondering he says there is only one hands of it that he had and the flying other than whether he know lightnings a problem you know when he says but what was happening was he was following the interstate he was causing collisions driving to the center you know by the way so he had to kind of offset the highway so he didn't cause problems but anyway I kept that in the program it's just that good okay now this this is really getting to the crux of metallurgy what things are all we're gonna talk about this alloy only right here there's there's a couple of other samples and metallurgically we test them out and we don't even stand approval until they've gone through I can't tell you how many thousands of hours of testing these other two alloys everybody's trying to knock off number one forty one thirty still is number one now what makes it so malleable and this is on your test just so you know 4130 chromoly it's got high strength so why did you buy 41:30 instead of mild steel they look the same they smell the same they well almost the same but one stronger so why I mean why would you spend twice the amount of money on 4130 is - steal any idea I'm gonna light er I'm gonna use less to get more you could use less you could buy a thinner wall material and your car's lighter your craft is lighter so its strength to weight ratio so if you want to improve anything racing you go lighter and the other way you can do it is to take a look at the middle arch and we're going to show you what that is they hear about it all the time but this is really what 41 thirties all about it has a carbon content that is somewhere around 30 points of carbon doesn't mean much to you yet but it will it has a few elements in it that are pretty normal and see the CR right here that's this chromium so if you hear the term chrome moly it's not like it's got a lot of chrome and it's got 1% chrome yeah that's good look at this moly quarter of a percent Mali in it but when you take all those ingredients and you put them all together you get some pretty good properties so let's go ahead and show the the next slide here's the properties that you get you get the tensile strength and you get ill strength now I want to show you what the difference is tensile strength remember that 95 ksi that was in pounds per square inch if you put this on machine and clamp on to the material and pull it that's what it'll measure now this material will actually start to give up the ghost before that it'll start the stretch and there's a plastic it'll stretch and stretch the stretch when you see it stretching it's at 75 75 thousand pounds per square inch 75 and it's pulling pulling pulling point and then boom it'll feel quick we'll give them a little break and then treat elongation so this material has about 12% elongation towards a rubber band well % of this so it's not just gonna snap it's going to move move move move and then snap and that's important we're talking about NHRA what happens when they drop the clutch they need something they they need it to be able to flex they can have a rigid if they have a rigid it's going to go boom just like that so just know this is a condition called in condition the 4130 in the in condition so we bought that because we want ice cream lightweight so go ahead to the next one okay now let's take a look at tubing mild steel you can go down to any metal martin and buy this 10:18 the only thing that's in it is a little bit of carbon 18 points of carbon these are all just elements that are there for the processing of Steel that's it so let's see what the properties are so what would we say forty one thirty was what's inside ninety five versus this right here fifty-five so you can reduce to the wall thickness considerable you can almost cut out I'd say roughly about thirty to forty percent of your weight just by going for forty one thirty just like that and now you've got a fast car now this right here the reason to attracting notice this right here forty percent what does that mean to you and I that means that you can take this tubing mile steel and you can bend it you do all kinds of things but is it strong no not very strong at all and unfortunately what happens is a lot of web pages get made this and it's a false sense of security that's what happens is as soon as the car rolls it snaps off the cage it doesn't have a string it looks good it was easy to bend that should tell you something if it was easy don't do it go ahead and next time okay now we're going to get into a crash analysis when we cut a section out of this car yeah this is this is what it looked like this is tubing in you're gonna see clusters of tubing you're going to see a mainframe and you're gonna see tunes coming in at different angles so that's what we did we cut into a couple of different tubes and our objective first of all is just to look at it and if you look right here you'll see it well you know what we're trying to do is we're trying to eliminate the Wilner out the back personally well it is this a good Wilbur benefit so there are not a lot of characteristics that look bad on us in fact this sharp edge right here turns out that broke in the heat effected zone and that's the weakest part of the weld and that's where it's supposed to break that's not going to change you're gonna look that way I'm gonna well up that way that's where it's gonna break the heat effected so that's where the liquid line goes down to the metal very normal think nothing of it if it breaks it you've got it under design of this braking so take a look at this I don't see anything while I'm crazy I looked right here nothing nothing really jump up and down and say yeah that looks terrible that's a problem so you know we looked at the end you still nothing nothing unusual now the beauty of having I happen is we have this vector analysis machine scanning electron microscope we're talking millions of dollars for these then I have at my disposal it's kind of fun okay so let's take a look at this this is a well that you can see a tube came into a tube and this weld right here kind of a train your shape yeah there is absolutely nothing unusual about that and the grain that you get out of the weld just kind of a mosaic pattern so if you look at that you can see this grain it's pretty consistent size nothing terribly unusual I looked at that area right here you look for a shark not a line maybe it didn't wash it on creek like maybe getting it fill it correctly I didn't see that that looked over this side and you can see it didn't penetrate all the way through but it didn't matter it held up meaning that the world was good and even though it's a little bit dished out it's very smooth the transition is smooth no sharpness at all so the nugget size was large enough that failure it didn't happen there so again we're looking at this thinking there's got to be a smoking gun in here something is wrong and if you look real close I don't know if you can see it this this kind of gave me a trigger so you take it wonderful right here there was a color change there I thought you know it's kind of kind of a white spot to it but I still I couldn't tell exactly what was going on until I started looking a little bit closer you see a shade difference here Shay difference here then I started noticing well there's something weird right here I don't know what that is but it is weird it is a different so then I just said to blow it up to about oh I don't know 200 power and that's the next and there is the smoking gun here's the problem anytime you have a high-performance vehicle with any kind designed and develops there's very little margin for error when I say that if you're developing something like that any jury dragster the margin of error is about 20 percent so you design this you know what are the heavy as a tank that you go 315 miles an hour so you get a 20% margin in there now what happens if you screw up the metallurgy you're already around the edge right on the edge and something if you can see this crust right here this crust right here it's kind of hard to see but see the roughness here it's called a D carb layer and then D carb has no strength whatsoever in fact we have to we have to deduct that from from your design from the strength of the material are beyond the edge and whatever process caused this this is something that was causing my heat don't know what caused it don't know if it wasn't of it don't know if it was a rose but that I sat on there it laid on lead on it too long but that can happen you had a question on it very much like he's starting out what it is is that you're exposing this material at a hot temperature and letting oxygen attack it and what it does it's D carburized there is nothing there in value so and not only is there nothing there in value but this material right here it's got cracks that are already propagating so all you need to do is do something phenomenal and it's going to crack instead right so let's take a look at this 2004 we had a problem not sure what it was 2006 Cory certainly wouldn't sure but he couldn't agree with vintage RA that it was a tire and what he was claiming was something in the frame girl Jerry was saying now it was your tire we got the camera to the roof then we have a death with very commitment same thing is claimed that his attire caused it there's no cameras to show it and then all of a sudden we get the big guy Jack force and he crashes yeah you know the thing about it is what if you had died if you had died you don't have a John Force or somebody that man had to follow through with it so what this caused was a chain reaction and I can tell you this this kind of put me on the hot spot I went to this show called appear I show performance raising there's no Orlando Florida and I was summoned to come and visit the NHRA SF I came here that all these racing organizations they have a little sideline organization it takes a responsibility they don't take it themselves they get a quality control group and so this report ended up being about somewhere around 130 140 pages and it was handed we've got the name John Mehta here that John is the dad of the kid who died I said John do with it what you want it's up to you I didn't show these presentations it took after medal and said it was okay so in an activist presentation the whole group got together said certainly we've got a problem you found what it was what do we do next and what happened next was a great thing they read the sign in the car there used to be two rails running the carb there's now three rails in the mainframe the cars were only lasting 15 races $80,000 a frame they're lasting 15 races there now lasting fifteen races so you can see that it's going to be safe and somebody's going to have this conversation thirty years from now well the same things don't happen first power is going to go up frames gonna be weak there's gonna be something that's gonna cause a catastrophe and they'll fix it but and that really is racing it's it's sad but it's the truth and it's the way it happens okay so there's a lot of considerations in design and what I want to leave you with and this program right here is you are the designer you're building something you designed it so you got to ask questions how fast is this going how safe is it what wall thickness you know you just can't build something out of aluminum because it's like you know you don't build out a 4130 just because you've heard that it's good stuff you gotta get the right filler materials and unfortunately what's happening out there is that you go your local well supply house anybody here mean will supply houses and if you ask them what filler is it gonna take - well my 4130 they're gonna hand you 41 30 and you're gonna well and it's gonna crack you go how does that happen it happens all the time they're gonna give you commercial grade 41:30 it runs about $8 a pound it's got a lot of traction elements in it 41:30 is crack sensitive so we have recommendations it's posted all over the website to write film reviews and I'll give it to you right now you have about three choices so it's not like you're stuck with one but one of the criterias that we selected was this filler material has to be inexpensive and I went to the air show and there's a guy that are saying used this filler it's the only one to use you know he was he was correct and then it's what's used in aerospace and it runs a hundred and thirty dollars a pound now is that practical is that what we want and in answer's no it makes no sense whatsoever so we did the testing we have numerous build materials that we tested for this number one fill our turns out to be a filler called er a tea yes d2 and it's about $8 a pound when you finish your well I'm recommending to you you leave it alone don't do any post weld heat treatment stress relief than anything else use that under matched carbon filler that are recommended and leave it as is now you saw what happens in nature a so many decides to take a rose bed and heat it because his buddy told him to and his grandpa tight now here's here's the one thing I really want to stress when you're welding apart I don't care what it is we're just stuck on 4130 right now when you when you fit it up very nice baby you don't have a lot of gaps you don't have a lot of stress so use the right filler and leave it alone now if I ask you what the word heat treat means to you what would you say what does he treat me to you ever hear that truck okay stress relief changes the properties hardening okay changes the property inches the property is absolutely all of these are the correct answers but you need to know that the heat treatment the term heat treatments generator it does change your cannot produce so the question is what are you trying to do what are you trying to do with your typing heat treatment so I posed this question in Oshkosh I watch the guy doing it I said what are you doing he says I'm stress relieving okay I'd like to why she stressful things how do you do it so he takes her whose bed and he creates a figure eight pattern apparently he's done this a lot cuz it looks like he's doing it very very well and watching this whole zone get read and I said how hot you get it and he said blood red blood red what is blood red he says well he says do the squeeze your thumb and look through your fingernail and that's blood red okay so you do that affiliates blood red then what and then I stopped okay I decided that I was going to test that because I've got all the instrumentation in the world and I've got all the parties bonus money so I can use them on the hydrometer sending them any honest so I set this up to do my own test so I heat this thing that I'm looking blood-red I've got little thermic all over the place so I could really monitor this okay there and I hit 1600 degrees Fahrenheit okay I'm gonna do it again two or three times and I hit a range I get it sixteen fifteen fifty I've been hit 17 degrees now do you know what it does to the material when you hit 1700 agrees or even 1600 degrees it became treats but it's called a needle annealing is softening okay so here is my one question you have to pass the examinee to lose the students raise your hands okay to pass the final exam here's the question why did you buy 41:30 over steel Street to weight ratio so why on earth you see these guys kneeling and softening it they just turned it to mild steel so you pass the test [Music]

Channel: Weld.com

Views: 25,755

Rating: 4.8315787 out of 5

Keywords: aws seminar, TIG, Welding, GTAW, Mr, Time, Weld.com, Videos, How, To, Weld, Tips, and, Tricks, National, Hot, Rod, Association, (Organization), NHRA, chrom, welding education, Welding resources

Id: wVrdST1pXRk

Length: 41min 16sec (2476 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 21 2014

Reddit Comments

[u/slow6i]

Very interesting video. Thank you for the post!

[u/mechanicalmaan]

If you don't have time to watch the whole video, the one point he makes at the very end is "don't anneal your welds on 4130 with an oxy-fuel torch." You're not stress relieving anything, you're just making the whole thing as weak as if you were using mild steel.