Author Series | George Friedman | The Storm Before the Calm

started for those of you who do not know me my name is gwendolyn mayer and i'm the archivist at the hudson library and historical society and we thank you for joining us this evening as we have yet another wonderful author who will join us and we'll have a wonderful discussion with for those of you that are interested you may purchase this book at any time at the learned l and in the chat notes there is a connection to the learned l where you can purchase this author's book we also want to stress that questions can be posted in the question and answer box or in the chat box so thank you for joining us and we're really excited to host george friedman this evening welcome george um i'm going to give a very brief bio and say that he is the director and founder of the geopolitical futures which specializes in geopolitical forecasting prior to this mr friedman was chairman of the global intel intelligence company stratfor which he founded in 1996. friedman is the author of six books many of you may know his best-selling book um the next decade or the next hundred years which was another book he currently resides in austin near austin texas where it is very warm not like northeast ohio so welcome his book is called the storm before the calm i don't know if you can all see the cover it was a very interesting read to me and we're delighted to host you um george would you like to discuss your describe your book in a nutshell for those that haven't read it well it begins with the idea that the united states is machine like any machine it cycles and every 50 years or so every eight years or so we go through a cycle where it looks like we're gonna blow apart we never do but we're in the middle of the time when it's blowing um i read your book and i i have to say i learned quite a bit i thought it was very interestingly outlined and i have many questions let's talk about um the foundation of empires i thought it was really interesting that you said empires weren't founded on military or guns or or fighting armies but rather they're they're founded on funding um can you develop that idea a little for me well everything you've just mentioned you have to pay for and in most countries you can't pay for it even as a wealthy country because people won't give it up or they rebel or something else like that you have to find some sort of foundation for paying for the things you want and when you don't do that and many countries can't do that you become a victim because this is a world filled with wolves if you're not going to be a wolf you got to be eaten by one george approaches this cyclical history that we tend that he believes that we have through history in and of itself so he literally starts with the earliest um in human encounters on north america and comes through our political history and he spends a little time on the founders for those of you that have not read the book i greatly enjoyed that discussion specifically you talked about seals and symbols of what our founders wanted our country to be and the fact that benjamin franklin much preferred a turkey as our national bird as opposed to the eagle in some some we would say that seals and symbols are an expression of what we value so i think my question you to you george is do you think that there's a better symbol or or a better symbol than the eagle do you agree with ben franklin well ben franklin said about uh turk about the eagle that it was a dishonest bird a dishonest bird in the sense that it would steal from other birds and never put an honest day of work in his life whereas the turkey he said was a very ambitious and hard-working bird and while he might get eaten he did his job and he wanted the united states and he was half serious about this not to have an eagle which is really a despicable bird he said but a turkey which is hard working now half of this i think was serious and half of it was he didn't want to took an eagle because every country has an eagle i mean what country doesn't have an eagle for the symbol and he hated the cliche and that was his way of saying let's have a different one but it really went to a basic view that he had in the founder's head which is our ability to labor our ability to be honest our ability to be what we are is what makes the united states what it's going to be and that any deviation from that threatens it and the most important thing that he valued about the country was hard work he felt that would build the republic let's get back to those founders did they envision where we are today with the swamp and the great divisiveness that we have in our country well they certainly expect a divisiveness uh they understood that human beings do not agree with each other and in a healthy country there is a dispute but at the same time they thought they were creating a new order of the ages and if you look in your pocket and you still have a dollar bills under credit card you will see that stamped on our credit on our dollar bill the idea that they were doing something that had never been done before in history and that was to create a republic and a republic which relied on the people and they fully understood that if you're going to rely on the people you're going to get discord because the public would engage in discord so their intention was to create a political order not that silence is people but that welcomes the discord i think they understood from their own politics that each side would think the other despicable and we certainly have a political order that has emerged that way so their question was not to get rid of what couldn't be gotten rid of but to manage it and the entire purpose of what they created was this machine and the purpose of the machine was to create to contain this tension and to control it and it did that by creating a federal government that doesn't work very well the key of that was a government that works well as a threat to liberty a government that doesn't that for example has a house of representatives and a senate and this is a 140 people in one and a hundred people in the other and a president that really doesn't have any powerless these other two in the supreme court this will gridlock constantly protecting liberty but hopefully creating a fundamental piece and that they they designed it as a machine and they thought of as a machine machinery of government and machines have certain logics certain dynamics and that was how we got here so the founders sort of made history by creating the government would you agree yeah i mean there was never a government like this they kept speaking about rome but rome wasn't like this a republic if you can keep it that's what uh benjamin who franklin said which sort of begs the question at least for me do we make history or does history make us well we i'm not going to grow up to be a basketball player and i'm probably not going to grow up to be chinese so my life is determined by all sorts of external things that limit and shape me the same for the republic uh we have two oceans on either side to protect us we have weak countries north and south of us that makes us a certain kind of country we have a wealthy center we have the mississippi river leading down into the gulf of mexico and allowing trade all over the world it gives us all sorts of opportunities which if you live in nigeria you probably don't have so does it make us who we are it limits our possibilities and opens possibilities it's for us to walk through it so these cycles of history that you taught are these cycles that you talk about in your book both the the social cycles and the economic cycles they're going to exist and it's our place to sort of roll in these cycles do we have any control over them well of course we have some control over them but when you have a cycle you have a deep economic problem profound social discord the pressure of the previous cycle coming to its end rips people apart and we have a government that is pretty much paralyzed at the beginning we have to exchange that so all of that is built in because when the machine begins not to work we all have to blame someone and we blame each other it's uh it's a characteristic of the republic so i would say that it is for human beings to work it out but i put this way as more karl marx of all people said men make history but they do not make it as they wish so the symptoms of the passionate discourse and divisiveness that we have in society today they're really a symptom of the problems of a symptom of the economic and social cycle we're in sure and it happens before so if i go back to the 1965-70 the 82nd airborne went into detroit to put down riots by blacks uh there was assassinations of uh martin luther king and of um bobby kennedy uh there was killings at kent state university there's a ride a democratic convention okay and we wind up with a president who's a criminal and he leaves office early so that he's not impeached so when we take a look at that and i go go back other examples every 50 years we get to this point why did we get to that point because the great period that roosevelt had bought a dip play had stopped working uh we were in a situation ultimately where i bought my first house for 18 interest rates uh unemployment was over ten percent um you you really were in a situation where the economy wasn't working and therefore tension rose because somebody had to be blamed for this okay that's human nature it doesn't just cause itself somebody had to blame with us and in the end the period ended with the election of ronald reagan who had no idea what he was going to do but reversed everything and created growth of investment capital that created microsoft that created a google without that money that his tax policy dictated wouldn't have had it now we're at the end of that period now we have a situation of zero interest you go to the bank you put your money in you don't get any any interest if you're a retiree that's quite a burden on you you plan to retire on that money uh you have a situation where there's not enough things to invest in there's way too much money in the system none of it go to the right place where old industries are collapsing new ones are not yet emerging and we're we're angry we have to blame someone so as you had richard nixon and the democrats fighting it out where richard nixon was the biggest monster we ever had there had never been such a terrible president for democrats and he would accuse them of basically being traitors okay now we have donald trump and joe biden and they're going at it this is the way our history is it's very surprising but you go back i can take it back to andy jackson uh this is the way we work things out so we don't work things out by sitting down at a table and being friendly and kind we work it out the same way we founded the company the country i should say with the revolution we didn't talk it out with the british we fought so this surplus of investing capital and this tension from economic upheaval and social upheaval they're kind of disruptors is what you're sort of telling me and how do we how do how does science and nature fit into this disruption i mean how do we account for covid or for tsunamis or their economic impact well of course their societal impact of course they have one but i suspect that for all the emphasis in covid i mean looking at 30 years down the road back at it well it's remember 1920s the dust bowl appeared a vast impoverishment of the midwest to the west of you okay at the time it was seen as the defining event we barely remember it uh the moment rain is the one we always obsess over so covet has had an effect for a year and a half there's a vaccine coming we will as always argue over taking a vaccine or not and and move on we are always in a position technologically as well of coming to the end of things technology is at the key of american life because it's a machine and they love machining we love we love everything so there's once edison who created the possibility to work at night he made it possible for the industrial revolution to work at night extraordinary uh hair forward in the next era ford creates the automobile which allows us as individuals without dependence and anything else to go where we want as we want traffic notwithstanding we're now in the position where we have the microchip the microchip was invented in 1970 it was first time it was by the way invented by dod department of defense that needed it for the f-14 okay it's now 50 years later the little companies that started in the backyard are now giants towering over society they can shut down a president if they think they want to and they do we are however no longer it's no longer high tech just as the automobile in 1965 was about 50 years old the microchip is about 50 years old it'll be useful as the car is it'll be necessary but the kind of productivity increases that we experienced over the past 50 years are gone so it used to be that individual productivity would grow at three or four percent a year because of some new gizmo it's now falling so it productivity growth is not only not there it's declining and while we're getting marvelous new things from it it doesn't have the impact it does so we're at the end of the cycle in the same way we ended the uh the cycle for electricity we ended the cycle for the automobile all of them still here but they no longer the driver society and the new driver hasn't arrived yet and that's our problem speaking of new drivers talk to me about space and the exploration of space and the possibility of other societies beyond our planet do you foresee that as a driver do you foresee that fueling our growth the answer is yes but not in this cycle 50 years now perhaps because right now we're still experimenting with it we're trying to figure out what to do with it just as we did with electricity when ben franklin first experimented with it what we're going to do in the next generation is this the problem is medicine and works like this we are growing older and older we life expectancy is spending but debilitating disease is heavily there the millennials they call themselves they are reproducing at a much lower late rate than previous generations which means that the next 20 30 years they're going to be more older much older people compared to the next generation is coming up and that's a problem because how do you support all the people with alzheimer's and parkinson's and everything else so technology basically emerges to solve a social problem the social problem we face in the next generation is the problem of debilitating disease of old people who cannot care for themselves and who suck up the resources of society another thing that kova did show us is that the medical community is not very good at emergency management if you will uh they got to in a year and a half and that's fair enough okay but we're going to have other viruses and we are averse to death we are averse to disease so we used to have things like cholera and you know you just died of it and it was okay it's no longer okay so the way we attack disease and the way we attack the diseases of old age has to be transformed so if you're looking to make money like you've made amazon you could have made babson i didn't but because yes we're looking at a forced revolution in medicine after that comes face it's been said that authors right to tell the world what they need to hear what do we need to hear today i think the most important thing is don't overestimate the crisis we're in politically right now we all believe there has never been any moments such as this with people such as this and such an awful period and the answer is there has been every 50 years andy jackson who had an election stolen from him rutherford b hayes who actually stole the election no question about it he stole it fair and square yeah from ohio is he um roosevelt fdr um i mean fdr was considered a traitor to that man okay uh brother phoebe hayes was loathed for bringing back the oil of the gold standard he was attacked by william jennings brian and despised andrew jackson had his wife called a prostitute and had in the dirtiest election ever held so one of the things that americans have to do is know their history so they can benchmark where they stand we're in a rough time no question about it uh we hate each other or anybody who disagrees with us that's normal that's the way we move forward so the one thing i'd like to get out is you know i've lived through two of these cycles this is my second okay they both were enormously painful and then they passed and how many of us really remember that the 82nd airborne occupied detroit they did is in all the newspapers so what i'm saying is that's what i'd like you to take from talk to me about the role of education and more specifically the role of the university one would think that they would be able to educate future generations about this cyclical nature well the problem of the university is always that it is not just a place to learn but a social event is a place party which is okay that's what you do that age but what happens is that you want to party with people like you so for example harvard has a questionnaire it sends out to people interview people that says is this someone you'd want to have lunch with is this someone you'd like to room with and it sounds like something from the 1920s is he our kind of fellow so the first problem is that the pr probability of a woman who wants to set up uh a movement to oppose abortion from arkansas is about as likely to get into harvard as i am to fly it's become a kind of discriminatory structure the second thing is it's incredibly inefficient i was a professor i taught six hours a week and i did that about half a year okay it was the finest part-time work i could find well at this point the cost of that has risen dramatically the university doesn't absorb it it the federal government does in the form of loans and so if they have the loans so you can set the price at anything they get a loan they pay it to you and then they struggle to move it but most important is that universities love diversity accepted ideas when the ideas become uncomfortable and this is not new this is not in you when it goes back you know quite a ways when the ideas become uncomfortable the university becomes uncomfortable and so in a society that is driven by ideas right knowledge in an idea like that and in a society like that you inevitably wind up in a situation where um a whole bunch of society is locked out so getting into harvard or as we saw in the scandal in california you have to be a certain kind of person and we have a huge division in american life on the one hand you have what i'll call the technocracy who zooms on everything and doesn't you know is in the position of advantage and then what i call the declining industrial working class of which ohio has seen much of the businesses that have failed and have left them behind dry and their children are not going to get that opportunity to go to the very best schools the schools where you get networking to go to goldman sachs and so on so we have a huge problem in the university it's inefficient it does not focus on careers because the people it has there will be they'll get a career anyway and most important it excludes a huge part of american society in ohio we have oberland ohio which was one of the first schools to accept it was the first school to accept african americans um and ohio is now celebrating its 217th birthday today so i'm going to ask you some interesting questions about ohio when one thinks about ohio's achievements what we have given the world and the cycles as they affect ohio i have to argue that we gave the world rock and roll um in 1952 and thus we have the rock hall of fame in northeast ohio which sort of in a roundabout way leads me to culture and um talk to me about the importance of culture to our society and can culture shift or change these cycles it emerges from the cycles our culture today is deeply embedded in computing the video game um the way the music is delivered via apple music and so on okay it permits any sort of music to be heard and it segments because when i was growing up and by the way brooklyn was where rock and roll was born and i don't want to discuss this with you uh where when i uh was growing up we all had the same music now it's interesting to note that there's all sorts of different sorts of music and different groups listen to different music so anybody my age will certainly remember dion how could you not there is no dion or there is none for everybody and it was a universal thing so i would argue that ohio did not invent rock and roll i mean please is new jersey maybe certainly texas but not not oh and i'll be interested in hearing your justification for this but the important thing is there is no as we grow up there is no single culture any longer it's been fragmented and the computer did that by giving you access to all this when we were growing up we had 78 out records and a little faster and we didn't have any other choice we had that or none oddly enough greater choices sometimes means fragmentation and now why do you think ohio is the home of rock and roll um there was a gentleman named george fried i believe that lived in cleveland ohio that was one of the very first to broadcast that type of music and that's why the rock hall of fame is located in cleveland ohio i won't argue with the point but fair enough um and i want to talk to you about 2026. it's my understanding that 2026 is technically 250 years since the declaration of independence how do you think the founders would look at us today and would they recognize the cycle that we are currently in that's sort of a definitely a challenge economically and and socially i don't think they anticipated cycles in such an orderly fashion that is expected uh i think they would be expecting more discord over a longer period of time but they certainly expected this for it i mean they expected the kind of thing we have they believed in technology profoundly they believed that this was the new order of the ages and what they meant by that was this was going to be if you will a time when humanity would conquer nature so i i would think they would not be surprised i mean obviously they'd be surprised at you know the all the things that are there but i don't think they'd be surprised at all together mr friedman it looks like we lost gwen there for a second okay but that's okay we can um if you want i can ask you a couple questions till she hops back on please all right so we have a question from bill jordan he says what are the implications of your points for the future of democracy well the democracy that we'll have in the future is the same as we have the past disorderly filled with discord filled with tension and triumph i mean when we go back to you know the 1960s and 70s it looked pretty much like us now we go back to the great depression i mean what can we say we go back to the civil war 650 000 dead uh when we go back to andrew jackson settlement of the west and the treacherous selections that were held so my point is that there's an orderliness to the discord we will now enter a period we are in that period of discord and then there will come to calm so the chaos of the 1960s and 70s led to one of the most prosperous periods in american history the dot com boom okay uh the great depression and of course world war ii on top of it led to a time of incredible peace and prosperity to 1950s and 60s so it goes back and forth so i think what they would what the future of democracy in the united states is is pretty much what it is in the past we will cycle between tension and triumph and when we're in tension we will all believe the country is about to collapse what would you say about future conflicts with countries like syria china russia well we have to begin by geography the united states is the only country in the world on a continent where it faces no threat militarily you look at eurasia all of them are threatened africa's even latin america we have canada to the north mexico to the south they're not going to take us on we also have two oceans the atlantic and the pacific that we control so that when wars come they don't come here we go there right now the tension is along the eastern coast of china not along the western coast of the united states so geography gave us an enormous advantage and so did thomas jefferson who did the louisiana purchase and saw what was possible if we held a midwest ohio and shipped food to britain and so where will we be in conflict the united states is somehow always in conflict and frequently unimportant conflicts in the sense that if we lose it we go on vietnam was an example of that the iraq wars which didn't wind up a victory okay and then of course when there is a major war like world war ii and japan the ability of the united states to mount enormous resources because it owns the entire continent and doesn't have to leave any forces behind to protect it well that's enormous advantage it's possible that we'll have a war with china i don't think so i don't think the chinese are up to it i think there's a lot of talk about it uh but the point is when you look at our geography we have benefits of enormous value and they were given to us by our founders because washington also wrote this farewell address the essential name need to take the west because we took the west uh we have the continent so i would say we will certainly have wars but not wars where our very existence depends on are your thoughts about artificial intelligence well i had the misfortune to get involved in artificial intelligence in 1989. i was designing war games for our side and we had to build maps and for insane reasons the hardest thing to do in a war game is design a map that a computer can read and we spent all sorts of time doing this and we decided let's get artificial intelligence to do it and we use lisp language is still doing and here was the problem it was an expert system an expert system where this expert had to lay out exactly how he thought and the experts couldn't do it the experts could not explain how they thought because thinking is very complex and so it wasn't there and so we never got the expert system to feed into the program artificial intelligence anything artificial is an analog of something real you cannot build an analog of something you don't understand we do not understand how we think now we'll get a lot very powerful programs we are going to get amazing programs okay but artificial intelligence the ability to distinguish between complex extractions mean we don't know how we do it so we can't program the system so artificial intelligence to my mind is basically a marketing term because a lot of stuff they call artificial intelligence is not artificial intelligence it's just a really good program so i i don't see how now this may be the bitterness of having worked on this for a year and almost lost my career on it but it just it's a heartbreaker we really haven't touched on global warming and how the potential environmental changes if you accept that it's changing have an effect upon us as a human race what do you have to think about that well the problem is modeling global warming i don't deny that it's happening i don't say it's not i'm just saying that the models that are there aren't very good and they aren't very good because how do you measure the earth's temperature and what points do you go to measure them it's very different in texas this year than it is oh how so what do you mean by global temperature rising you can measure carbon in the atmosphere and make certain assumptions of how it'll behave but we really don't know very much about the amount of carbons in the atmosphere and so on in other words since i do modeling okay the models of global warming are not because anybody's lying or inventing anything they just uncertain because of so many variables now logic tells us that you pour more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere you should be warming okay the problem is that a whole bunch of the earth areas there don't warm now now the answer is well it'll vary but you know it's not a consistency or anything else so my approach to global warming is to understand those parts of the earth that aren't behaving as it should by the theory i'm not at all convinced that it's not true i mean very much of the opinion that there's such a thing as global warming i just don't think that the science has advanced to the point to any level of precision which is not something you say in public ryan feels like tradition and rituals are getting beat up and um are we too quick to rush into these new wonderful innovative thoughts and um you know what about tradition and rituals do they count for anything and don't they have their place as well absolutely people were appalled at the automobile replacing the horse i mean the right of passage was learning to ride a horse when we look at history our history is a constant replacement of tradition okay we transformed the meaning of well the meaning of transportation with the erie canal that you guys experienced and that was a violation tradition this country was born as a violation of tradition it was a revolt against the king it had a vision of how to govern itself that was never existed in the world it was arrogant and speaking of a new order of the ages that was going to be built so the problem we have is as much as we love our traditions our technology our politics our place in the world are moving so rapidly that they get unloaded there are many things that i miss i absolutely miss good rock and roll right and i think it is a violation of everything i cannot stand music never thought i'd reach the point say that these kids play yeah but i'm at that point so how do we transform the republic how do we transform the world and keep our traditions going this is the tragedy of the united states other countries have traditions they've held on to for a long time the americans change trans you know change these things like they change their shirts i do have a solution for you um we do have a museum about rock and roll here you might wait to come and visit it i would like to come visit it didn't know it was there but but it really is a problem it's a museum piece and traditions are supposed to be living things and we are ruthless with the past there's no mercy i do have a question from carol she wants to know about the periods of calm when was the most recent one do we have them anymore is there a calm moment in history for any of us sure it was between 1980 and 2010. i guess it started to break down with the 2008 crisis so we'll put it there and it was a place where wealth just blossomed the microchip made all sorts of things possible that hadn't been possible before people got wealthy there was a cost for it because it has cost us the industrial base but was replaced by other things so we had a very calm period we had another calm period between about 1880 and 1910 i'm sorry 1920. it was a period of the industrial revolution during that time the us went from a minor country to producing half the world's industrial products between 1870 and 1900 the u.s went from being a non-producer to producing half the product of the world so sure we've had it and we'll have it again but in between the two were the great depression uh the craziness of the 1960s and 70s there isn't a dispersal so this too shall pass uh it's our misfortune to live through it um talk to me about conspiracy theorists and q anon and and the possibility of an authoritarian regime do you discount all of these or are they part of the normal system of things first there are conspiracies anytime three people get together and do something they don't want anybody else to find out it's conspiracy uh there are conspiracies in the united states now are there conspiracies so vast that they can overthrow the country no because the country's too chaotic united like argentina where you go to buenos aires everything is there you roll the tanks and you take it over okay how do you take control of this country you can't even give them vaccines i mean this is a disorderly country and you can't stage a coup in the united states you can't even be authoritarian because people will ignore you the army is not there to impose your will so all these fears if you notice kind of dissolve okay the idea that that um richard nixon by stealing the secrets of the democratic party could impose his will on the country fell apart when it was richard nixon so there's an interesting thing about coup d'etats or authoritarian and stuff like that you have to have a center of gravity to take over you can't take over ohio and you're certainly not going to take over texas i'll say that proudly you can't how do you take over this country so you prognosticate a great deal about our future based upon your studies and your education and and what you see what surprises you well kovitz surprised me kova surprised me because of the response we had measles and it was a terrible disease and we had polio when i was growing up there was polio and if you got polio that really ruined your life we still lived our went to school lived our lives and it was a risk that we were prepared to take we had to take it um what interested me about kovid was that while it had terrible outcomes it was the first time we went to the extreme of shutting down vast areas of society in order to stop it now this we've had diphtheria in our past whooping cough all sorts of disease which we accepted the risk what surprised me the most about this was the almost universal acceptance of the idea that society had to be shut down in great measure to fight it um that's a that's a change i don't understand it entirely because i haven't seen it play out okay but the extreme panic over this disease the relative calm over polio or measles or other diseases it was interesting they used to have chickenpox parties chickenpox is a nasty disease cause you a lot of problems i remember when i was little when one kid got chickenpox or measles all the other kids went to their house the parents took them there so they get the disease get over with it that would be unthinkable today so that's a surprise to me in this time of divisiveness and a multitude of opinions and some would say too much press and too much media is there one place that you really recommend for us to go to get good information oh don't send that out for me please information can be gotten but the most important thing is that information without a critical ability on the reader's part to say that's bull and one of the problems that we've had in our education i think is a tendency to tell students what to think so it's teaching them how to think global warming is a case in point very good argument for it probably right okay it is given as received truth in class okay so how do people learn to think when the education doesn't force them to think force them to find the counter argument and that's something that i think this the school system is going to go through and really have to deal with which is there are many things that are true and many things that are false and your job is to teach the students which is which or the least common good answer as a society we have generally felt that our citizens had a responsibility to participate in that society and we have responsibilities as individuals we sort of live by the creed that one person can make a difference um do you still feel that that responsibility isn't as important today as it was 250 years ago it wasn't that important 250 years ago it's it's always been said in the united states but the founders made private life more important than public life when george washington left office he went home to his plantation because that was what's good and jefferson did the same and john adams went back to being a lawyer after a while in other words the founders one of the things about this country is that public life was always a necessary but onerous responsibility the really important things that happen happen at home happen in your business happen in your town and if you remember and you certainly remember or know of small town america that was kind of the epitome of it nobody really worried that much about things outside so when we look at the country we will always find stirring speeches about you know how every person should get involved and they did get involved in their schools and their churches and their towns and their lives and that's still the case and they always argued at each other i'm jewish so we have a saying in any town with two jews there'll be three synagogues why because they're fighting themselves each other and everybody else so if you've ever my wife is an adventist and has been an advantage and circuses we have marvelous fights with each other in public life that's where we live george i want to thank you for being involved with us tonight for answering my questions for writing this book for trying to make this understandable to us all um certainly the storm before the calm was uh well i enjoyed the read and i learned a great deal i would recommend it to all of you out there to purchase or read george has a website with his organization geopoliticalfutures.com i would encourage you to participate in and and take a look at and i would welcome you to northeast ohio anytime there's not a pandemic and i would make sure to take you to the rock hall of fame um so please make an effort to come to northeast ohio do you have buddy holly stuff they do they do um so thank you again thank you for writing this book and i have to ask you one last question certainly i i understand that you're a father what advice do you have to future generations you're on your own kid on that note we'll say good evening and thank you very much again for taking the time to do this with us thank you for having me

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Published: Tue Mar 02 2021