Amna: Since the supreme court struck down affirmative action in college admissions, questions remain over how this will affect students moving forward and who will be most impacted. The court sided with plaintiffs who argued race-conscious admissions discriminate against Asian Americans. But how do Asian American students feel about the loss of race-based college admissions? Let's hear first from some who support the decision, and then those that oppose it. >> I was overjoyed with the decision. I believe that the supreme court got this right and that affirmative action needed to go. Obviously, this doesn't guarantee us entry into any college we want. But what this does guarantee me is that I know that everything that happens is not because of something I can't control. And if I don't get in, it's because I could have just worked harder. It's because I should have studied more, not because of something that I can't change, which is in my race. >> They take away opportunities from certain ethnic groups in order to benefit others, which is completely racist. And asian-americans such as me and my peers we have worked extremely hard and we fear that our college admissions will be denied because of our race. I was considering like opting out of my race in the college admissions process. But I think now that affirmative action is gone, it's just more fair. And if I don't get into the college I want to get into, it's not something that I can't control. And it's more of like, I could have worked harder. >> I come from a pretty privileged family, relatively affluent. And I understand that I perhaps, you know, do have some advantages over many others. However, I think that disadvantage is not from the color of my skin, right. I don't want to -- I don't want to be judged on that. >> I definitely believe that affirmative action is beneficial to Asian Americans. The asian-american community is a very diverse community. We have, like hmong people of -- hmong people, Vietnamese people, Cambodian people, Chinese people, we have all sorts of different cultures. And so affirmative action is one of those things that ensures that our culture is represented and that we all have a voice . >> Race is something that historically has been very important in shaping the lives of people currently. And that's not something that I think can be ignored, especially on a level when people are applying to colleges. >> I actually wrote a paper in high school against affirmative action because a lot of the conversation in my household and growing up was always on the idea of like meritocracy, which a lot of people against affirmative action are talking about now and this idea of survival. Again, if you work so hard, you should be able to deserve it. But as I'm now going through the reality of this country and navigating all these systems and spaces, I'm starting to realize that meritocracy is only an illusion and that there are just so many, again, factors that make meritocracy incredibly hard. >> Until we progress in a society where I think, I don't know, maybe America can truly be race blind or we can truly acknowledge each other as as equals or be more holistic in our interpretations and our understanding of others and our identities, I think that affirmative action still has a place. Amna: To dig more deeply into those views, I'm joined by Janelle Wong. She's a political scientist and the director of Asian American studies at the university of Maryland. And Susana liu-hedberg, the executive director of the education nonprofit, the 1990 institute. Welcome by the supreme court -- how do you think it will be affected by the supreme court's decision? Janelle: -- Get better access to education. For more than 10 years, we have found consistent support for affirmative action among Asian Americans interviewed in language and young people just like those you heard from on the whole are even more supportive. So I recognize the value of hearing from diverse voices but on the hall, I think is an American students are going to really miss the diversity that happens when you have a program in place that systematically accounts for lack of access for groups to the college campus. Amna: As one of the students mentioned, it comprises a very broad range of racial and ethnic backgrounds. They do broadly support affirmative action but does that support change based on which group you are talking about? >> It does change and as we delve deeper and disaggregate data, the myth of the Asian American monolith and model minority myth correlate in this way and we see this playing out with, for example, the June pew research survey which showed that Asian Americans have mixed views on affirmative action and with the interviews that you saw. You know, so first of all, just uplifting pew research survey that was done a few years ago that showcased 30 plus different ethnicities that are under one asian-american monolith, that we all, 30 plus ethnicities, are the same. And when we disaggregate this data, we fin that not every asian-american has the same lived experience and the study even delves deeper into each of the cities and where they fall within party and education including access to higher education. >> There's a couple of really good ideas I want to pull apart. I want to put to use some of those numbers. When you take a look at those numbers on asian-american views of affirmative action, overall, 53% of those surveyed say it is a good thing. They support affirmative action. 76% said race should not be a factor in admissions. 53% said that considering race and ethnicity in admissions would make the process less fair. Those seem to be contradictory ideas so what should we understand about that? Janelle: With the pew question on race and ethnic city, it provides little context. It asks if it should be a major, minor, or no factor. That is not how admissions work in the real world. Race has been considered holistically. In race conscious admissions, it is never the only factor considered nor is it the primary factor but many think it is and this may affect how they respond to that question. Some, with this question, may not even know they are being asked about affirmative action. I think what is really critical here is that other studies have shown that a majority of Asian Americans do support affirmative action but Susanna is right. There is one group that does not support affirmative action consistently, and that is my own group, chinese-americans. Amna: What should we understand about why that view is held among chinese-americans? Janelle: Susanna mentioned the model minority myth. This is the idea that Asian Americans have a special value for education and are competent -- Uber competent. The internalization and endorsement of this model minority myth is associated with antiblack attitudes among Asian Americans and associated with skepticism about affirmative action. Let me be really clear. Asian Americans face racial discrimination and they are victims of white supremacy, but that is really what gave the supreme court case power. Edward Bluhm recruited asian-american plaintiffs because they are victims of white supremacy and they shielded his organization from charges of racism. So the fact is that black, Latino, and native American students, the fact that they are showing up in much smaller proportions compared to white and Asian students tells us something is W wng with the system and that some groups face much higher barriers to accessing education than others. That is not fair and it does not lead to opportunity for all. Amna: Clearly, the views held among the very diverse population that falls under the category of Asian Americans, it's very complicated and worth unpacking, disaggregating, but when it comes to impact, what do you believe? The impact of the supreme court's decision? Susana: Diversity remains incredibly important in any learning environment and as we can see from the interviews and also the surveys that we have read, this issue was and remains a complex one. The cases and the ruling tied two things together. On the one hand, we acknowledge there needs to be some mechanism in place to support students who have been historically marginalized and underrepresented to ensure equity and access to higher education but on the other hand, if processes in admissions are based on one certain criteria like race, than that does become discriminatory. Now affirmative action did not need to be struck down but it did need to be fixed. The law, like many other of our laws, is not perfect. But it was and could have been reworked or implemented differently to reflect today's needs and address the and equities and frustration that some of the api community felt. And also in the case of the students that you had interviewed here. The nation really did a disservice to so many minority students by taking a sledgehammer basically a two decades of progress. We should have worked together to find a solution that allowed all historically underrepresented minority students to thrive which includes asian-american students and also now is a time where we are looking to do and see what is next. Now is the time to seize on that opportunity, to move forward, and really work together, not just within the api community but also all affected communities. Amna: Thank you both for joining us in bringing your experience to this very complicated issue. Thank you. ♪♪
