>> Anchi Hoh: All right,
good afternoon everyone. Thank you for coming to
the Library of Congress. I'm Anchi Hoh, Acting
Assistant Chief of the African and Middle Eastern Division
or AMED as most of us know. I want to begin our
program today by briefly introducing
our division and our AMED Reading Room. Our division is consisted
of three sections; the African section,
the Hebraic section, and the Near East section. We're responsible
for collections from 78 different countries
and more than 40 languages. Through the library's several
acquisitions offices, we collect and develop collections
from Sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle
East, Central Asia, including Afghanistan,
and the Caucuses. So there are various ways
to use our collection. You can go to the
Library's website at loc.gov, that stands for Library
of Congress, loc.gov. I see you all have a
pen, or you can take out a phone and type in our URL. Another way, which
is really easy to use our collection today,
since you're all here, is to visit the African Middle
Eastern Reading Room which is on the second floor of
the Jefferson Building. And, if any of you
are interested in visiting your Reading Room, we have several staff
members here who will be very happy
to bring you there. And, it's very easy to use our
collections in our reading room. All you need is to
request a Reader's Card. And how do you do that? Just bring a form of ID
to Rook LJ 133 which is on the first floor of this
building, Jefferson Building. And, follow a few
steps of instructions and you'll get a readers card
today and you'll be able to come to see our magnificent Reading
Room and use our collections. So in addition to
developing collections and providing readers
access to these collections, AMED also offers research
orientations and briefings. And, of course, we also organize
public programs such as this. Through our public
programs, you'll have a chance to view some of the interesting and unique items
from our collections. So today, our area specialists
for Ethiopia and Eritrea, Fentahun Tirunah has prepared
a special collection display on the art and architecture
of Ethiopian Orthodox Church. So we welcome you to view, to view the display
following the presentation. So now I would like to invite
Fentahun Tirunah to the podium to introduce today's speaker. Thanks. [ Applause ] >> Fentahun Tirunah: Thank you
Anchi for the introduction. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is
Fentahun Tirunah and I'm going to be your host for the event. Before I introduce our guest, I
have a couple of announcements. As you see, this event
is going to be videotaped for a subsequent broadcast for the library's
webcast and other media. There will be a formal
question and answer period after the presentation in
which audience is encouraged to participate. But, please be advised that your
voice and image may be recorded and later broadcast
as part of this event. By participating in the
question and answer period, you are consenting to the
library's possible production and transmission
of your remarks. In addition to this, during the
question and answer session, I would like to remind
the audience that this forum does not
entertain any questions of political nature. And, thank you for
your understanding. Our guest speaker
today is no stranger to the African Middle
Eastern Reading Room. He was here in 2015 to
present his first two books. And, today Esubalew
Meaza has come to tell us about his latest book,
Ascending to Heaven; about the ancient churches
and monasteries of Ethiopia. It's a beautiful book just
fit for the coffee table. So get ready for a really
spectacular journey. As you see, from the books sat
out on the table over there, many a scholar are interested
in the arts and architecture of the Ethiopian
Orthodox Church. One of the scholars most worthy of mention here is the late Dr.
Marilyn Heldman who devoted most of her life to collecting
and studying the art and architecture of this
ancient institution. Thanks to the works of
scholars like Dr. Heldman, the church is gaining
recognition today as the most ancient
Christian church in the world. Here, in the Library
of Congress, collections have
been greatly in reach through the tremendous personal
library which Dr. Heldman so generously donated
upon her passing in 2019. And, here I would like
to take the opportunity to thank Mrs. Nina
Gildonseve [assumed spelling] for her kindness for her
kindness, kind assistance in transferring Dr.
Heldman's collections to the Library of Congress. Our speaker today, Mr. Esubalew
Meaza, has traveled deep into Ethiopia to capture
the architectural splendors of the ancient Orthodox Church. And, thanks to his great skill
with the camera and his eye for beauty, I'm sure that this
book will provide scholars with a wealth of new information and make an important
contribution to the library's growing
collection on Ethiopia. Please help me to welcome
Mr. Esubalew to the forum. [ Applause ] >> Esubalew Meaza:
Thank you Mr. Fentahun. I don't know if you
can hear me all right. So, so many years ago,
when I was in high school in Inglewood New Jersey,
trying and struggling through world history, and even
before that, when I was a child. Growing up in Addis Ababa
Ethiopia, if someone had told me that I'd be standing
here and talking to you, my first reaction
would be, of course, what is the Library of Congress? Because I wouldn't know
what that would be. My second reaction
would be a disbelief. It is an honor to be
standing in front of you for the second time,
as Mr. Fentahun said, to share with you my ongoing
journey to discovering more of the stories of Ethiopia. Indeed as the [inaudible], history is the best
medicine for a sick mind. And, I'm a firsthand witness
that I've learned about the past and the, through the
artifacts left by those who had lived before us. It helped me understand,
appreciate, and gained some perspectives. Therefore, as [inaudible],
the journey continues. Thank you Ms. Hoh
for your remark, I don't know if she's here. And, thank you Mr. Fentahun
for your kind introduction and also your assistance in
researching through so many of the books at the
Library of Congress. Without your assistance,
it's almost impossible to find those books and also
to find relevant documents that I've used in my books. Let me share a fun
fact for a second. I went to the Library
of Congress website that Ms. Hoh just told
us about, loc.com, and I searched the
word Ethiopia. And, 10,962 documents came up. So thank you for the
Library of Congress for this massive collection of Ethiopian history
including rare books. I think you're going to, you're
going to look at them later on, and the inspiring environment that you provide
for researchers. I've sent, I've spent some time
at the reading rooms upstairs and they're really magnificent
and they're very inspiring. And, thank you for coming,
sacrificing your lunchtime for a dose of Ethiopian history. So thank you very much. So I've done this
presentation a few times. And, a common thing
I hear is hearing about the past is
not an exciting time. So what I'm going
to do is I'm going to ask you a favor
from the start. And, what I want you to
do is don't listen to me. What you can do instead
is get into the stories. Imagine if you're part of the
story I'm about to tell you. Imagine if you're the creator,
imagine if you're the painter, or imagine if you're
the storyteller. To help you start with
this challenge, let me, let me give a story,
a story of mine. So what if you're presented
with a pathway to lead you to rediscover a country
that you know and a country that maybe you were born in? Along the way you'll encounter
some extraordinary people, mind bending practices,
tangible devotions, and tectonic level shifts
in your understanding. Would you take on the challenge? This is a question to you. Would you take on the
challenge to research more? Would you travel the distance
to remote places to document? Would you look at the ancient
manuscripts, touch them, examine them, question
them, and learn from them? Would you get close to the articles maybe
a thousand years old? And, maybe you'll
connect to the people who created those manuscripts
through their presentations. Would you put yourself in the
stories and become the owner and caretakers of the stories? I believe that's the challenge
I accepted which led me to my latest book,
Ascending to Heaven. The book is about ancient
churches and monasteries. And, it covers churches from the
6th century to the 17th century. And, I also included one
book that was built recently for comparison reason and
also trying to make a point that you'll hear me do later on. So let me read a short
paragraph from the book, toward the introduction
of the book, that might give you a
window to my mindset in approaching this project. So although visiting
the ancient churches and monasteries would impress,
most visitors, one does not have to be a believer to
approach the brilliant minds that created the
structures, the strong bonds that allowed centuries of
continuity and the calm state of mind of the current
guardians. The generation of caretakers
sustained the environment with meaningful interactions,
uplifting conversations, loud silences, and the
refreshing degree of humility that transports most
visitors toward a state of peace and tranquility. So the book highlights
the ingenuity of those who created the buildings and appreciates the
current caretakers of the buildings as well. So before getting deep
into today's subject, I do want to take like five
minutes of your time to kind of take you back to
September 25th 2015. That's the first time I
did my first presentation at the Library of Congress. Then what I did was I took
ten of my favorite things about Ethiopia, places and
events, and I presented that. So I just wanted to go
through that for, to remind you and also to, to make a point. The point I'm trying to make is that visiting Ethiopia
rewards visitors with more than a collection of the
churches that we're going to talk about today, but also,
some other tourist attractions that you will, you will enjoy. So one of the attributes that make Ethiopia a unique
tourism magnet is a variety of fascinating destinations
that it offers. You are limited, you are not
limited to one tourism areas. You have nature, long
history, a diverse culture, addictive adventures
and raw wildlife. So as you look at the
slides, to travel, traveling to all directions of the country most likely
admire some of the landscapes. And the Northern part, for
people who have been there, you've seen places like the
Simien Mountains National Park with the highest peak
being the Ras Dejen which is a 15,000 feet peak. In the Southern part you have
the White Grass National Park or known as Nechisar. And, you also have the diverse
place of Cofe on the West. And places like [inaudible], if
you've seen places in Arizona, rock formations,
similar to that. When you talk about history,
you have the 4th century CE, the Ancient Obelisk,
the New Jerusalem, 11 connected 12th Century
churches, sometimes known as the 8th Wonder of the World. And, Al-Nejashi, the 1400 years
old 7th century mosque and one of the symbolic examples of
religion tolerance in Ethiopia. Hiking to the mountain
in the northern part, which is Erta Ale,
is another adventure that I was talking about. And, of course, all of the national parks will
give you a chance to get close to the wildlife including
endemic animals such as the Ethiopian
Red Fox, Ibex, and the Bleeding Heart Baboons. I don't know who that
person is by the way. So when we talk about
cultural experiences, let me, let me kind of pause
for one second and. So I know this has nothing
to do with what we're talking about today, but, I'll
get there, one more slide. So this is kind of connected
to what I want to tell you which is there's
a ceremony called, cultural ceremony called Ukuli,
most known as bull jumping in the Western part
of the world. It's an ancient Southern
Ethiopia ritual that validates a young person or a young man is ready
for responsibility. So again, I told you earlier, you can insert yourself
into the story. And, here is a chance for you to insert your story
in jumping the bulls. So here's, I had the privilege
of attending Ukuli two times. The first time I attended, my
reaction was very, you know, what a primitive and
backward ceremony this was, at least the first
time I saw it. But, so but, what happened
was I really didn't, I did not understand
what the message was. So what exactly is
it evaluating? This is something that kind of rebuilt itself the
second time I went. Talking to the locals and also,
you know, opening up my mind, I kind of understood what
they were evaluating. They're evaluating if this young
man has invested enough time in the community. Does he have the trust of his
friends to hold the bulls tight? Does he understand the
meaning of independence? Does he have the
support of his community? So it is not about only
his physical ability, it's also about his connection
to the community, his wisdom, his time management, his ability to take responsibility are also
getting tested in this process. And, through this
ritual, they've told me that they do connect
to their ancestors. The lesson learned here of,
if you try to understand most of these rituals
represent deeper messages in a culturally meaningful way. This is the kind of unique
culture you will experience in Ethiopia. All right. Let's not repeat it. All right. Let's talk about why
you came here today which is the Ascending
to Heaven. What is it? So this is a book about
the ancient churches and monasteries, as
I told you earlier. There are 51 churches and monasteries included
in this book. Even though I would
love to do this, I mean I could be standing here
talking to you about every one of these churches, my
experiences in going to them, the rivers we crossed, mountains
we climbed, or even the leap of faith that was
required to believe that I can do this project. But, Mr. Fentahun told
me it was a limited time. So I'm not going to, I'm not
going to go through that. So instead of that, what I did
was, for this presentation, I went ahead and summarized
a book with the stories that I'm trying to tell
you through the book. So here they are. It's kind of hard to fit
all the book in four words, but this is what I did. And, so let's see if it works. The ingenuity of the people
who created these masterpieces and the protective culture
they developed to make sure that they passed it on to us. And, it actually worked. So we have these artifacts. The tenacity is another thing
that I admire about their goals. It took persistence, vision,
and stubborn determination to be able to create these
masterpieces and care for them. And, of course, some
disappointments on the way that I'll be telling you
about and the hope that I have that the new generation
will be able to take care and maintain these churches. So experiencing these places
first hand has been a source of many, many, many
questions for me. I've done three books,
as you can see from the previous slides. But, I still have questions. I still have many questions. How could they, people
from the 6th century, be able to create this massive
buildings with primitive tools? How did they transport, you can
see the middle one in there, the stila, that weighs 160
tons, from the carving place to where they stood it up? And, how did they,
how did they carry it, how did they stood it up? I mean, this is over
2,000 years ago. How could they carve
the middle of a mountain and create a large
church, not only a church but many rooms within
the church? How could they paint with
vivid colors, as you can see on the top part of
the presentation or the slide that
transcends time? How could they have a vision,
looking at the right side of the mountain, the right side
of your picture or your slide, how could they look at that
big rocky mountain and say or have the audacity to say I'm
going to go there in the middle of that mountain and carve a
church and create a church? These are the kinds of questions
I continue to ask myself and I'm sure people who
have been there before have these questions. And, people who are,
will be, will be inspired by this presentation
will go see these places, will have these same
questions as well. So their ingenuity
did not stop here. They developed scripts, ink,
paint, binding techniques, countless manuscripts, and equally impressive the
traditional education system they developed to make sure that this knowledge
has been transferred to the new generation. This is just to kind of give you
a little break from me talking. So these are some
of the ceremonies in the Ethiopian
Orthodox Church. [ Singing ] So with all this articles
from the past or artifacts from the past, I hear some
common questions throughout my journey to document
these places. And, I'm sure you've heard some
of these questions as well. So the questions are did the
Ethiopians really build these structures in the 6th century,
12th century, questioning many of the rocky churches? Were they influenced by people
outside of their country? Why did they stop inventing? As you can imagine by
now, I traveled and I seen about what 50, 51 churches,
remote churches and places that are kind of hard to get. But, I was lucky enough
to get to these places but I was not lucky enough to
invent a time machine to go back and ask these peoples. What I did, instead, was I tried
to find the next best thing which was people
who were inspired to currently apply
the same techniques to create these churches. So I was lucky enough
to find one person. So that leads me into the
example of our generation or the ingenuity
in our generation. Okay. Apologize. There we go. So let me introduce you
to what I call the present day ingenuity. Meet the guy on the
left, standing in front of the church, [Inaudible]. He's a young clergy who carved
four churches about 40 miles from the ancient churches of
Lalibela, and, the churches, the Lalibela Church that
you see on the right side. So the idea of ancient churches, these churches are
also decorated with the stories of the Bible. The stories of told in sort
of the shape of the church and also the rock or
leaf carved on them. So as I explained
earlier, when I researched, when I did my research
for this book, the one of the common things
that I witnessed that, you know, many historians, even in printed
books, some books that you see, shed doubt to the
original creators of the architectures
or buildings. So to me [Inaudible] has proven
that with the will, the skill, and the determination
of the Ethiopians to build these churches
still exist. Here is, in the 21st century,
here's a priest communicating to his god, taking
orders just like those from the ancient
church time to build, to build these magnificent
churches. As he told me personally, he
used his God given talent, primitive tools, and vision. And, this is not
from the 6th century, this is not from
the 12th century. This is a person that
I met and the person that you can go meet next
time you travel to Ethiopia. So another story, another word
of tenacity is the determination and the tenacity of the clergy
is just, is just very strong. I write in the book, somewhere
in the introduction part of the book, their life
circles around religion. Their culture is shaped by
religion while some practice of the religion is also
shaped by the culture. For more information,
when you get a chance, take a look at the book and the
introduction part of the book, you will see more
details in there. And, in this picture,
what I'm trying to show you is the
long consecutive and tiring services
they perform daily, the distance that they travel. And, as you can see, in the
middle part of the slide, that's also the cover
of the book, many ancient churches are
built on hills, mountaintops, and require traveling
long distances. And few, like [inaudible] that's
the church I was talking about, you are required
to climb the side of a mountain to the monastery. In today, in today's technology,
I just want to make sure, in today's technology there is
a way to create an easier path. However, people use these
symbolic means as a way of connecting to the creators, creators of the monastery
and their messages. So don't think that they
do this because of a lack of knowledge today, it's
just their way of connecting to the original message. So talking about tenacity, let
me introduce you to a person, let me just make it personal and
introduce you to a person I met about three years
ago during my visit to a remote monastery
called [inaudible]. His name is Aba [inaudible],
the one standing on the left just to make sure. His name Aba, Aba means
father, Father [Inaudible]. He's a monk from the monastery and he's been there
for about 40 years. He left, he left his home of, to the monastery at
a very early age. According to them, his decision
was a very tough decision for his family for many reasons. He was a second child
to join the monastery. So that means he doesn't have or he's not helping his
father farming or his mother with household chores
or being regularly around in the neighborhood. As a response to his, you
should have seen his face to, he looks at my questions
as very immature and silly, but I had to ask them. What he told me was
beyond my understanding, what I could understand
at that time. He said when you give yourself
to God, you have to believe that every human
being is your family. He understood the
pain that caused, that leading his family caused,
that his family, to his family, especially when he was telling
me the fact that he was unable to see his dying mother in time. That was tough to hear. But, he strongly believes
that this is a temporary life that we have on earth and he
is looking for the longer life and peaceful life beyond. So this is the kind of
tenacity that you see. So another interesting
thing I learned about him is that he's been serving
the monastery in a very different
various capacities. One of his responsibility
requires him to travel long distances
with difficult landscape. The [inaudible] landscape is
surrounded by four rivers. And, sometimes crossing those
rivers, depending on the season, is not only difficult but
also life threatening. Just to kind of give you
an understanding of the, how massive this place is, it
took me 18 hours to just look at a fraction of the monastery. So imagine this person or the
[inaudible] doing this trip from the monastery to
the surrounding villages, like in a weekly basis. So the few days that I
spent with [inaudible] and what I noticed
was interesting. It is hard to know
when his day starts because the previous
days don't seem to end, as far as I can see. Prayer at all time,
serving others, working hard every minute, and
eating when it's only necessary. That is the visible life that
I witnessed in that monastery. So if that is not enough,
and I was kind of overwhelmed after 18 hours and 4 days in
that monastery, what I found out toward the end of
the monastery was kind of mind boggling I guess. He suffered from a kind of
lung disease that made it hard for him to breathe
in normal activities. And, here he is walking with
me in 18 hours and going places and climbing mountains. So again, my immature
and silly concerns, he smiled with humility,
strong belief, gratitude, and unyielding devotion. This is one of the stories
that I can tell you about him and many other people that
I met on this journey. Their tenacity is unearthly, the
most important point for me is that through them I was able
to see the strength and drive of the clergies of the past. I was able to see the people
who created this masterpieces because the self-control and
obedience culture are the same. I notice, I did the
disappointment in black and white. It won't be [inaudible]
to tell you about all this interesting
stories that I encounter and not tell you about some
of the disappointments. These are the churches
you see in Lalibela, 12th century churches, as you
can see the cracks on the rocks and also this unattractive
cover that you see on the right side is something
that was done recently to protect the churches
but ended up not protecting the
churches but also kind of speeding up their demise. So my disappointment here is if
nothing is done, the possibility of losing this church, this masterpiece is
as real as it gets. So it's kind of real
and concerning. I'm not going to
leave you hanging with disappointment
and let you leave. So let me tell you
what my hope is. Awareness is in the rise not
only the Ethiopian government but our government,
the United States and European countries are
acknowledging the issues and reaching out to help. So this is kind of
a very helpful step. And, hopefully this continues
until the issue is resolved. Here's the other
hope that I have. By far the greatest
traditional schools of the past were
constructed by and managed by the Ethiopian
Orthodox Church, of course I'm talking
about Ethiopia. I wrote in more detail about the
traditional educational system and those brave sorts
that follow it. I invite you to read some
sections from the book or the end of the book
called [inaudible] and Alternate School. Those are the titles
of the subject, the titles of those sections. So when you get a chance later
on, take a look of those. So I've seen many children like
this in all part of the country. That gives me hope that
the traditional education has continued. And, also my hope is that
enough future caretakers will be educated and trained and
inspired to take responsibility for these masterpieces. All right. I was, so as a conclusion,
hopefully, I was able to give you a good
understanding what the book is about and without
going through the book, because there are 51
churches as I say. If you have, later on
if you have a question that I can try to entertain. But, it's kind of hard to limit
them into one presentation. So why the attention? So why are we giving these
churches the attention that we're giving them? Well, considering their age,
the civilization of the people who made them, and the strain of
the culture that protected them, it makes them a treasure
to humanity and their value transcends
any one country. That's why we need to
pay attention to them. And, what is reflected? They reflect our history. The help us understand
and respect the people who lived before us,
with different tradition. And, they help us learn
from their mental strains, dedication, and unity. So that is exactly why I'm
standing in front of you today to talk about the
ancient people. So their ingenuity, tenacity,
and hope they provide to us. So one last slide, I
know I said conclusion but one last slide won't hurt. Okay. There's a saying that,
if it makes you nervous, you're doing it right. So I do feel the butterflies,
just to let you know. And, hopefully that means that
I've done it at least 50% right. So let me read one
paragraph from the book and, before getting into
your questions. [Inaudible] a priest
from the remote monastery of [inaudible] connected my
interest of publishing the, publishing a book about the
Ethiopian Ancient Church and monasteries to
upholding from God. He said in a very convincing and
deliberate matter, it's not you who chose the project,
it was chosen for you by a higher power. If, in fact, that's the case, I hope my work adequately
portrays the extraordinary minds that created the establishment
and the simplicity and sincerity of the pure souls I
encountered throughout the Ethiopian landscape. So thank you for
listening to me. And, I will be taking
questions if you have them. [ Applause ] >> Fentahun Tirunah: I'm sure
you have tons of questions for him because he's
just left us in limbo, he hasn't discussed
much of his book that. >> Esubalew Meaza: I
am ready to discuss it. Yes ma'am. >> Well thank you very
much for [inaudible]. Thank you for the
fascinating presentation. You certainly raised my
interested in going to visit all of these wonderful places. My question is if you could
share with us a little bit of the history of when
Christianity arrived or evolved how did it
evolve in Ethiopia? >> Esubalew Meaza: So I'm
glad you mentioned that. Because, toward the
introduction of the book, at least the first
10 or 15 pages, that's exactly what
I talked about, how Christianity
arrived in Ethiopia. There are some, two
responses to that. One was during the 34 AD when the Ethiopian
Eunuch was baptized by, baptized that was
the first time. Also the other, as a
nation in the 4th century that Christianity arrived in Ethiopia during the
kingdom of King Kaleb. So after that, the book
talks about the expansion and the book talks about
all these other churches that were created. So I really advise you
to look at the first 5 or 6 pages of the book. That would answer your question. And I'm so happy to hear
that you were inspired by, inspired enough to be able
to go visit these places, because they are
just amazing places. Anybody else? Yes? >> Could you talk a little bit
about the architecture, itself, and you said people
used [inaudible]. I wonder about the
architecture, itself, and how people used simple tools
to build some of the churches that were in or under ground. >> EM: Yeah. So the historical, the history
behind the ancient churches is they've used a hammer
and a chisel to chisel those big,
big buildings. That's what they say. So my, as one of the
presentation, I talked about, you know, we need to find
somebody who is doing that right now so we can
see if that is possible. And that's exactly what
I found in [inaudible], one of the new churches that
were built about 5, 6 years ago. He actually used the
same tools that we heard that the ancient people used
to create these churches. So a simple chisel and a simple
hammer, and now floor plans, no software that tells him
exactly where to put what, no measurement for symmetry,
and it's just simple tools. So the only way I can answer
your question is based on the facts that I've
seen from this guy is just as simple as it could get. Yep? >> Thank you, Esu. I had a question about are
women allowed in these churches? Are they being used as
place to just visit? Or are they actually
being used for services and for traditional things
that they actually do, I mean, regularly, or are they
just for people to visit? >> EM: Okay, so that's
an interesting question. So there are churches and
monasteries, not churches, there are monasteries that
women are not allowed in. But from the 51 churches
that I covered in the book, I would say about only
about 2 or 3% of that is where women are not allowed. But at the same time,
there are churches where guys are not allowed. So I wouldn't put it as a big
issue to go visit those places, because the majority of
the places are, you know, just living churches
and churches where ceremonies happen, so
you can go visit these places. You just have to make sure
that you exercise enough and have the stamina to
travel some of these places, because they are far away. Some of the churches, from
one place to another will take about 4 or 5 hours of
walking in the mountains. So I just, that is, that [inaudible] is the
only thing required. But as far as women, you
are allowed in many places, so I wouldn't put
that as a roadblock. Anybody else? Yes? >> Thank you Esu. So my question is, where do
you get your inspiration from? And how do you pass your
inspiration on to your kids? And I know you have kids. >> EM: Ooh, where do I get, so as [inaudible] I
guess a calling is from God, I don't know. So as far as passing it on,
that's a question I can answer. But every time I get a chance, I
do take my kids to these places. They are American born
kids, but they did go to several places with me. They slept in front of a
river, waiting for the river to come down so we can cross. I mean, they've seen everything. So they do have, the only thing
I can do is show them what I'm trying to do and just give the
value to what I'm trying to do. So I feel like they
understand it. I feel like they're, I
don't know if I'd go as far as inspired, but they
will be inspired one day because they've seen
these places, they've experienced
it firsthand. So that's one way of
passing it, I guess. >> Yes sir, yeah? [Inaudible], it's coming, sir. >> Thank you. That was a nice presentation. So I was, first I just
wanted to admire the job that you have done,
not only for this book, but the other two books that
you have published already. My, I have this book, and
as I'm Ethiopian American, which origin Ethiopian,
I'm [inaudible] too, but I never been in one of
those 53 choices that you have, and not only me, I'm sure many of the Ethiopians
[inaudible] into these places. So my question is I know
that the monasteries and the monks are not that much
open for the outside people to they're naturally
inviting to be seen, because they just left the world to be spending all their
time to be praying. So for regular people
to go to these places, how they are really coming to
see many people to visit them? And that's one question. Another one is that
this book is in English, and as I just mentioned earlier, a lot of Ethiopians are
not really open to this. So when we see in books in
English, we always think that that's prepared
for non Ethiopians. So this is a kind of a questionable book
for all Ethiopians. So do you have any plan that
it's to be translated to Amharic so that everybody will share, so
if an Ethiopians will see this as a place to see in the future? Thank you. >> EM: Those are
great questions. The first one about the
monks and the clergy in the remote sites, or the monasteries you
were talking about, they're not as closed
as you think they are. But usually when you see them,
they are praying or they are, in their mind, kind of
doing their own thing. So that kind of probably gives
you the understanding they might be not as open as
you think they are. But I believe if you approach
them, and if you talk to them, and if you ask them
questions, whatever curiosities that you have, I
think they are open. So what you said as a regular
person, I guarantee you I went in as a regular person. So it was just spending
a little more time. But they do see you, usually
when we visit Ethiopia, we have limited time, so we're
trying to get to the point of whatever we are
doing really quick. I mean, that might not work in
these places, because they do, as I said, they do need time to understand exactly
what your question is, and trying to be
able to answer it. So as a general answer, I
would say, take your time and approach them, and
they are very open people. As far as the Amharic
version, there are people who have asked me if
they can translate it. I really believe that people
should do what, you know, if I go beyond my skill I may
mess it up, so I don't want to, I don't want to translate
myself, but there are people who have asked me before, and
if they are serious about it, and if they press, then I
will, I don't have any issues and I would allow
them to translate it. So hopefully they'll
get translated one day. Yes? >> Thank you for the
nice presentation. [Inaudible] churches, what's
[inaudible] the program of churches like
this in Ethiopia? >> EM: So they are still
discovering, so I don't want to put a number in it. But in the book, I put
in the 2011 statistic. Over 2,500, I believe,
is what they documented. But you can definitely
look at the book and get the right answer. But as I said, even after
the book was published, I saw a church that was
discovered in the northern part of Ethiopia, very
similar to the one at the, the one that was
showing on the cover. So yeah, they're
discovering every day, so I can't tell you exactly
what number, but you're welcome. Yes, sir? >> Are there [inaudible]
on the UNESCO [inaudible]. How do you take sides, and if not is there
any effort to put them? And if they are, which ones? >> EM: So there are a lot
of sites, not only churches, but a lot of sites, including
some ceremonies that are part of the UNESCO, under
the UNESCO protection, such as the Lalibela, the 11 interconnected
12 century churches. They have been under
UNESCO protection. So they are, so many of
them are, but as I said, some are still just getting
discovered, so it's kind of hard to expect that they will
be covered right away. But yes there are some, the
outside world is noticing, and you know these artifacts and
these treasures and that just, and mind you, I mean,
they are in Ethiopia, but they belong to the world. And they are getting
protected, so. >> 5more minutes. >> EM: Yes? >> And it's difficult to travel
and to visit 51 churches. And how long it take you
to visit these churches? And also, some of the
churches, these are monasteries, I'm sorry, require a lot of
walking and a lot of fasting? And could you please tell
us, I mean, what is, I mean, if you have any difficulties
and if you have any experiences to visiting these places? >> EM: So one of the
advantages that I have is, I do, my other hobby is hiking. So that kind of helped
me out a lot. Some of the churches,
as I said earlier, trying to document them the
right way, it does take 4 or 5 hours just to get
from one to another. And in the Cave of the Wandiba
[assumed spelling] Monastery, where I met [inaudible],
we spent 4 days there. It was a total of
18 hours of walking. So there are, they are
difficult to get to. But believe it or not, the
walking is not the issue for me, it's just some of
the elevations. I mean, they'll show you
a middle of a mountain and tell you there's a
church in there, and you have to go get it, take
a picture of it, so that makes it a
very difficult journey. It's difficult, but
it is a challenge that anybody can do here, so. >> I wanted to ask. >> Just a final question I
have, so just a final question. I just wonder, why
is those churches in the mountainous area? >> EM: Okay. So there are some, that's
interesting, that's also covered in the book, but there
are some answers to that. One is on being that there
is a Biblical answer, which is the Jesus, every time
He preaches He's in the mount, or some higher ground. So that is one of the reasons
that they have it there. But there's also another reason. Because they are in these
difficult places, we were able to maintain them and then
pass it to the next generation and not get it, getting
destroyed by war or by some people
wanting to destroy it, so. That was your question, so there
was, I think your hand in there. [ Inaudible ] So, yes, you do. The, another advantage is since I wrote those
two books before this, some of the tour
guides became friends. So they are, yeah,
that is an advantage. But there are so many good and
really talented tour guides, and specific in that
area as well. So you don't, you're not going to have a problem
visiting these places. [ Inaudible ] One last question. >> Hi. Thanks. So you mentioned that you had
two other books before this, and this is your third book. So I was just wondering, I
guess, what's next for you? Are there any other topics
that you're exploring? >> EM: So just to kind of
tell you, the time it took from the last book, which is
the book about [inaudible], this new book is 4 years. So out of the 4 years,
over 6 months was trying to figure out what to do. So this is my kind
of going around. Your question, I'm still
thinking about what to do. So there's nothing in my mind
right now that I'm trying to do. But in general, there
are just so many things to document and write about, so. >> [Inaudible], thank you
for the nice presentation. [ Applause ]
