"Arteta locked us in the dressing room, it was like he was the manager” ⚽ Theo Walcott | Up Front

Mel's literally locked the dressing room players only and it's like he was I'm taking control of this whole Space it was like he was the manager there in that moment ARS was outside waiting for us to train we were not out there because Mel stopped training That's How Strong of a character he was even our was AF afraid of him where's your ambition cuz couple of years not winning something is one thing the best part of nearly a decade for an ambitious Wonder kid that's you know being her referen in the Wonder kid which I didn't call and as a 35-year-old man when you look back at it did it play out the way you thought it would never been asked that question Simon this is upfront with me Simon Jordan I believe there are a lot of vacuous uninformed unchallenged opinions out there I want to get to the bottom line and cut through the nonsense so on this podcast with William Hill I'm going to get people with strong views who think they can stand them up under proper scrutiny there's a good chance I might learn something along the way but more importantly so might you joining me in today's episode a teenage Wonder Kid born out of the Southampton Academy he landed at Arsenal before being thrust into the national Consciousness picked for England at a World Cup all before his 17th birthday England's youngest International he hit a century of goals over a decade in North London winning two fa cups along the way the walkot welcome to up front now you might want to dispute that two fa cups because somewhere along the line I've heard it's three okay yeah so it is three because I got three at home so no going to take those away from me but yeah I was injured my ACL for one of them it was the famous 2N which a lot of the AR fans quite happy with okay so the fact that you played in the third round of the FA Cup doesn't give you the third FA Cup it it does for me sitting in the office okay and I shown the kids is that a medal I'm like yeah so for them that's what me Fair part that's what so we're sat here um in the presidential suite overlooking the financial distri you know District of Frankfurt which is quite an interesting little city yeah in these podcasts the what we tried to was established a little bit about the background of how when and why and how you became the person that you are was it always football for you no it really wasn't I started very late I started at 10: was never really interested in football to be honest uh I didn't really watch it my first memory of football was probably the Michael O goal 98 okay Liverpool fan at the time my old man was a Liverpool fan so I thought Mich so I sort of put them both together but I was not interested I was Athletics 100 meters 200 meters right um and that's what I was focused to do but I did sort of county level briefly and then I realized my running sty compared to the county style was all over the place didn't really focus on that and then I started to actually enjoy football because of one of my friends actually was going to play a football match uh at the time and need an extra body so I came along with my shoes on and I scored a perfect hat trick at the time and then i' kind of liked football after that to be honest what was your parents involvement parents involvement so my own man he would literally be fairing me you know know it's like fairing you know your children up and down the motorway to to sampton every you know sort of once twice a week um and my mom was a midwife so she was always out of hours like at times you wouldn't really see her cuz it' be at night you know that sort of was a quite stressful job for her but yeah no I uh my old man was literally gone through a lot of cars back in the blowing up in the day and the cars weren't as good as they are now pushy father pushy father not at all no no I had a pushy the thing about my development from when I came through at 16 I was a I was a decision maker so I'd always make decisions and I've continued to do that until this point which is probably a little bit unusual now because I feel like at times parents because I've do my Grassroots level with my son and then when you're on the sil you see some of the parents pushing their children to be certain stars because they're their next Jude or their next field or whatever they want to be that's always the worry for me is having a pushy parent so the great thing about my parents they sat back they let me make decisions the people around me as well again make me you know make the decisions and it worked out for me you know like I say you make mistakes long way but you learn from those as well of course um but yeah like I say it's because it's your career so I feel like it's important to do what you want to do and be be yourself and be you yeah fair enough obviously you know you're Guided by people that have some experience but one of the things that um I mean obviously there's this Wonder kid label that gets stuck to you and gets stuck to a lot of the younger players and we'll dig into that a little bit deeper um during the course of this conversation but I want to read you a quote from one of your former coach is to talk specifically about you and your awareness of yourself because you seems instantaneously seems quite quite self-aware he said there's absolutely no chance that feia Walcott will ever be distracted from the gift he's been given he knows he's a lucky guy and he'll make the most of what he has the gift that he refers to I'm assuming must be ability and Pace when did you realize yourself that you had this quote unquote gift yeah it's interesting because it was probably when I was 15 playing reserves playing against I'm not the biggest person in the world no but 15 I was very D very small but playing against Domin there we go thank and playing against people like lyo Primus for portsman if he was he's double my size and it was when I actually experienced playing in the men's game you as a kid essentially I was a kid and I I look at the sort of the English setup and people now when people say about young players and kids they like mid 20s who've actually had a experience in a league I just didn't I was 15 reserves straight into first team at 16 for Saints and there a lot for my little eyes to crack on with but to be honest when you play football you express yourself anyway in in in sort of ways I wasn't the biggest talker I wasn't the biggest leader I was just quiet get on with a job and then when it comes to the actual football side of it just do your attributes that's all I knew U and it worked for me I had people around me like I remember Nigel quazi was very good around me at the time um because he really sort of looked after Dennis wise as well which I've had some very interesting moment with Dennis wise after a picture this I was on the bus on the way to might been pressing away one of my first sort of games and he asked me to make cup to te's he asked you to make him a cup of tea make the squad a cup of tea on a moving bus down whatever road I was on I didn't know how to make bloody cups of teas at 15 which is mad it's just you didn't know how to make I did not I just thought maybe put the kettle put the tea bags in the kettle that's how that's how was not clear right so I said put the tea bags in the kettle yes 15 and uh yeah so I never made a cup te in my life um okay and I said No and then he sort of look gave me a like the deaths there and then went back to a seat and then what happened later on the uh my old man got a call from the club saying oh um your son's refused to make cups of teas and he say is he there to make cups of teas or is he there to play football what do you want him to do you tell me want to play football okay well he's there to play football then after that moment I think because of I I've had a good game and you know the sort of the talk was getting a bit High about me Dennis was a different person around me he was like okay we'll look after this this kid right um which was interesting because I had a weeks later as a as a kid you're playing with a ball at your feet I was in the sort of the reserve area kicking the ball against these sort of advertisings Miss the advertising boards smash the glass behind who comes out with glass in the leg Dennis bloody wise come out it's his full name is it yeah no but he came out and I never forget it because he just looked like thunder the Thunder maybe worse and he just screamed sh did all this da I just put my hand Dennis me like don't worry don't worry about it so it's like someone's Paul Dennis said don't yeah I was G to ask you about that because I I've seen that story and I know Dennis um I nearly took him to Palace um back in the day um and for reasons best known to me I decided not to take Napoleon to Palace um but he's a character Dennis yeah the academy that was being produced at Southampton at the time was throwing out some not insignificant players you were coming to the four oxl Chamberlain um you know obviously a later stage um Gareth Bell but it was being revered as a very significant Academy and I had one at Palace where we' thrown out uh Wayne routage uh Ben Watson um Victor Moses was coming through WF zaha was coming through Nathaniel Klein was coming through and I'm very interested to see you know you going into that Academy and what the experiences were like there because I had this really big thing about the academy about players being produced in a way that was conducive to being professional footballers and and understanding the School of Hard Knocks and understanding that it was very difficult to be a professional footballer not preparing them to be jugglers preparing them to be ready for the business of of of of the opportunity of professional football what was southampton's Academy like because it was being pictured as the sort of the the poster boy for how an academy should produce young players yeah it was but like they've sort of gone away from that and it's interesting now when I've I've gone back to the club a few times they're starting to bring in Old faces because they want to get an idea and a sense of what was it like we were producing all these players why we're not doing it now I don't think it's sampton I think it's quite generic around the devel full stop I do think it's that and that's why we've sort of Taken players from abroad and stuff but going back to samton for me they had a system where all the players were were like being in a sort of a training camp consistently together I was 15 going staying on a Sunday night going back on a sort of a Monday night I was sort of influencing the it it's called The Lodge at the time Jules was looking after it lovely lovely woman she I still keep in touch with her now as well and I was sh room with Gare Bale we had Nathan Dyer Matt Mills you know Martin crany Leon best Dexter Blackstock d m all these guys have gone on to have some good careers yeah and Sur there all these guys and it's very interesting having you know when you see the United teams who have had a structure and been together for so long so many of them made it and successful it's very similar in that sense they want a group of Players Once yeah quite a while ago um but it was getting a sense of getting a group of players together that actually just enjoy being in the same space but also enjoying playing and because it was playing we've had fun and that's the thing fun can be taken out of the acmy now when I look at Players they're playing into a system that the manager wants so who's up here but you're in Academy you want to develop yourself so now you are losing all your attributes all your strengths what I liked about they sort of they saw what you had they hindered that but also they let you express yourself a lot more I think now because the managers changed consistently right you're getting players that would want to play to system but that manager moved on now you play system so they you're over complicated for these young players coming through they're not actually finding themselves they're play into a system of how to play um and I think that me that's I believe that's why players don't come through as did you have the first team manager quite a lot involved in the academy because it was always no I was going to say it always a I used to forc the first team managers to pay attention to the academy yeah because I think that's a good thing for them to do so one thing when I went to sampton I was shown the the lights the grand lights of Chelsea I was 10 right um I went as a ball boy and I went beyond scenes it was Liverpool and got to pitches all the players 10 years old this is when I've going back to just starting football as well and Academy at that age when I've only played football for four five months didn't really understand it thinking goodness to me this is too much for me and I went to and then samamp didn't want just look at me after off the back of a new a new it was a jersey tournament actually uh and they just showed me all the academy side of it show me the Dell but that's about it didn't go anything about first team because for me that's the goal but I don't need to be distracted from that because I'm working towards that and that's what they did as well they didn't show you all the the first team side of it and I think now it's very accessible now with the social media side of it where players and sort of parents going back to that side of it can see all this Glam where you can put highlights and clips eyes and make your kid into a great start instead of actually doing the hard work where first thing just separate it separate it's enough you're not going to be there for many many years mine was developed very quickly 16 but that was out of my choice I've just gotten with football and then people would like say go back to wonder kid I didn't lay myself as kid no I was just a kid enjoying football that it got thrust into a Mad World you talked about systems in and and and kids being introduced and not so much force-fed but you know directed into a system of play do you think that in some way takes away the uh the the individual thinking of a player that subsequently brings out a kind of player that we're watching now that's not able to at times think for themselves I think as well you can as as football it's it's very interesting because you're sheltered in a world it's very interesting when you come out of it how you see things very differently of course like because you're in like a little bubble where people making your breakfast people making your lunch people making your dinners you're people doing your I mean I've seen tax bills and car registration all this stuff just left in the dress room like it's going to be dealt with like someone else by someone else and it's actually now teaching these players not to modol them you know character exactly to to be robust when it comes to the actual real world after football particularly why not do that when they're still playing football um and I always find it quite frustrating when now when it coming on the outside of it how difficult it is to get to the players like even if Sayo or if a kid wants to Sayo they ignored or they got headphones and don't get me wrong some can be in the zone but we all people and at times these these little kids and they look up to you for that one moment if you look at them all actually acknowledge that's fundament right yeah I mean I I remember about the character of players and you talk about it as morly coddling and everything being done in the bides being wiped and I kind of agree I remember years ago with Steve Bruce when he first started managing for me at Palace and and we wanted not because I wanted the kids to do it because I wanted to save some money I wanted the kids to clean the gyms and the academ not because I wanted character I wanted resilience I wanted respect and it was kind of something no not doing that the PFA would come down and get involved and it makes feel that that kind of attitude builds a sense of entitlement in young players too early and they don't realize what the real world is like and when they get out into the real world post their careers obviously in the world that you're now in it's a bit of a shock for them because they've been institutionalized for years um I mean I clean I cleaned Kevin Jones's boots right and he was sitting on the bench sampton I was still clean his boots yeah and I remember when he said St you don't clean boots I said no I need to clean your boots it's my job my responsib to look after your boots he said I've not played in none of those weekend because you played of me I still going to clean your boots cuz that's my job I'm not still Academy player but in the first team been so my job's never changed I wouldn't because I've you know I'm first I'm not just going to leave the boots he can do it that wasn't my character I was always responsible in the fact that no I'm going to look after you because you've looked after me up until this point I'm now ahead of you but look that was my job and that's one thing I don't think they do anymore I don't mean to clean boots no um I see some first thing guys still clean boots because it's sort of yeah it's a set standards it's a discipline it's a respect culture and there's not enough of it you get you get given your debut by Harry rnap um I mean how big a deal was that for you I mean it's very early you're very young we all know that and constantly every time I talk to someone I said I'm going to go and speak to Theo Walcott I'm soon is going what Young Theo Walcott everyone speaks to you in that respect because ultimately you're still sitting there as a pretty young man now um what was that like getting called up into the first team I mean was it something that was on your radar was it a shock was it something that pushed your eyes back for a second or were you just going okay this is a natural progression for me yeah that actually it wasn't really a shock because it was more I started to hear the conversations on the outside from the fa youth cup run Harry I remember him pulling me this was actually after the Wolves game actually forgot to put on my shirt I was nervous but I just want to get on the pitch I was hungry just to get on the pitch just to to show what I could do really and like I said I didn't really overthink it I think one thing especially when you're young young and you're Fearless you don't overthink things yes you can make mistakes of course you can but you don't over complicate it and I think you also don't know what you don't know do you exactly and you're going into a space where people are don't know what he's like so because of all the the chat as well people would be either want to get tight to let him you know basically back then the championship let they still do it letting you know that you're in a game but because I was so fearless and quick I'll just get back up don't let people see you hurt just get on with it it just eventually just sort of built them down these sort of Defenders I played against and I remember Harry when he when I actually remember full debut against Leeds he C he pulled me you've never told your team before never really tell your team he said the I want you to call your dad I'm going to be starting you and I'm like going like hit myself I'm starting tomorrow Le's way Ellen Road said you have to call your dad let me he's got to be there so I thought what a nice sort of gesture that was at the time because man just don't do that they don't come and pull a player before and say yeah and look at the bigger picture like how going back to the the hard yards of the parents taking you up and down how much it meant because he's been that position with with Jamie of course and everything I'm sure he well it also been very much on the front foot with Frank Edney Frank Lampard when ultimately all that pressure at West Ham was built and Frank had to sit in front of that press conference and Harry to explain so he's quite good at that isn't he yeah no he's exceptional because like he's he looks at the the person as well which which I feel it's really important so always look at the player there's a person in there he's the original exactly yeah he really is um there's a lot of hype that gets built around you very quickly and I'm trying to work my way through it that you know you've got wisy who can be sometimes quite unpleasant um um being very pleasant to you when you've broken a window and oh it's the okay fine go away and do what you want but there's also a lot of background noise building about you with a limited amount of appearances you eight appearances with sthampton you've got you know a series of games for the Youth set up of England in the 17s and so and so forth but there's a lot of noise and I remember writing an article in 2005 and and the subject matter was you right um and it was about this situation where this ruper I think was complaining about the potential of you being moved away because I don't think you had a pro contract at the time you were on a scholarship were you yeah I had a similar situation with John Bostock where you you know you're coming through into the academy you're getting into the first team and all everyone's going wow this a young kid in our team but the background noise with you seems to be really quite loud instantaneously but you you know you make your first team starting up debut in October and your agents already out in the media talking about um he's an ambitious lad he's very flattered to potentially be speaking to or be spoke about in terms of clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool and that seemed to me to be a very strange set circumstances to be happening so quickly for a 16-year-old kid that's very early in his career only just started to get into a championship side why is this happening I didn't really know know much about it to be honest I I why does it happen I think for me that side of it I was never I was never really sort of understood that side because all I knew was the football side of it so I'd do my job but you said early on a moment ago that you were very clear as to what you wanted very confident in yourself and kind of made your decisions for yourself so are you involved in this process or is it happening around you no so it's happening around me all of a sudden you're going up and up and up and up and there's no one around I'm not going my parents look after me in that sense of understand how football football clubs work I don't have a clue I just want to play football I don't quite care about that to be honest and when you you hear teams like Liverpool as a Liverpool fan and you hear teams like Arsenal Chelsea all these players come in the Sor all these teams again it's going back to you need someone to take care of that side I'll take care of the football side of it but that side I don't want anything to do with you you deal with that and then I will make decision simple as that very quickly this comes from or Theo is an ambitious lad and you know would welcome the interest of clubs to Theo's leaving Southampton and on his way and it it it feels I mean I remember again not comparing you to John bosto because your career went that way and John's went that way because he went to Tottenham far too early was there ever a thought process before you made the decision to join a club like Arsenal that I should perhaps learn my trade and understand what's what's going on in the football world because there was likely to be a perception I remember saying again to bostok you're going to go to Tottenham you're not going to get in the first team You' be better off learning first team football rather than going into the stiffs for a period of time and learning nothing was that never part of your thought process my thought process because again going back into the sense of I play football very young well so not very young late 10 Mar Owen Idol n broke into scene I'm 16 and all of a sudden I get a chance to be around my idol play with him omry omry I'm going to jump on that you ask any kid right now at 15 16 you got a chance to go you play your idol you're going to say yes and you know Liverpool man united again it can be quite a lot but and then all of a sudden Arsenal I don't look at Arsenal I look at Omri that was my thought I thought I saw omry and I thought yeah but when you're going to Arsenal and you're choosing Arsenal one of the main conversations surely has to be not about who you want to play with who you're going to play for arson Wenger I mean Jack Wilshire I mean I I did one of these with Jack who spoke to me about Wenger and his various characteristics I'm very interested to hear I met him in 2000 and and bought a couple of players for him um obviously he's very professorial very calm saw yesterday actually game you saw him yesterday did you yeah still calm when you look back at Wenger for you I mean what were the qualities that you experienced what was wenger's attributes so Wenger rutes for me he was someone who would always have time for people um be it on the off the field he wasn't computational at all you wouldn't you be an incident where players are trying to sort of have a heated discussion should we just say he would just stay out of it because that's nothing to do with him but he would never say no to a conversation but the thing about arson is very smart when you speak to him and going in there with a certain question or a certain what you know for instance for for example what do do in the team you go and see him you would ask a question you come out think my question been answered I think it has but in a different sort of way than I expected again he was always a calm presence but like all his teams are very calm up until the point when just before he's leaving it started to get a bit sort of erratic but that's where maybe you know start to lose what he was good at um and for me like I can't thank him enough for actually g off good I mean do you I mean you you I think I'd say K's good is it I mean is you know I mean Serenity and calmness is a good thing because it gives balance but does it concentrate the mind I mean I read something about he dislikes confrontation and avoids confrontation to some extent and you've just sort of alluded to that and instances where where players had altercations he would step away from I mean would you have liked to seen well I'm not asking you to criticize anger I'm just giving understanding of perspective would you like to seen a bit more Edge from him do you know as one time this actually my might even be out there already it was Liverpool away and that was the one time I actually seen aren come in and and literally go mad um it was definitely Li way it was the one time I thought that was definitely out of character what was he losing about I mean just the discipline the the the way we played not the Arsenal way it was literally gone away from the sort of philosophy of what he's built what Arsenal is and when you go off track from the way ARS AR an Arsenal play he was never happy with it did you sign for Arsenal specifically because you felt you had an opportunity to win things yes yeah I did I really did was it surprising was it you didn't win much well you didn't no but we'll talk about that in a moment but was it when when you when you come through the door all of a sudden very quickly whether it's in the January transfer window when you arrive or in the summer of that season 2006 you're seeing some of the Main Stays of Arsenal depart you see him bur Camp leave p leave Campbell leave Cole leave Lauren leave and all these players have played significant roles um in the achievements of the past the significant achievements does that at any time make you think am I part of a regeneration is there an even bigger opportunity for me or is it slightly all of these big players are going what's happening here I mean you need to generate a new structure of a team at some point and maybe the players that come come in W at the level at they're not going to be instantly Ashley CO's and S Campell that's not what you're asking but for me I still believe that ARS could win something I think at some point it started to change the sort of thought process of top four was was a trophy that's probably the the sort of finances come involved a lot more but the move to the stadium as well potentially as well but that started to be a trophy and even now to this day people would rather be in top four than actually win the cup are you in that camp no I I win an FA Cup I I just Premier League maybe better oh yeah sorry about FA Cup so yeah of course I would like to win Prem everyone would like to win the Premier League Of course that but for me again now I look back there's not many opportunities when you actually playing finals when I look back at my career of the M I've played playing you know a handful not loads and when you look back and you see the little medals or you see the trophies the achievements one thing I would say to any player as well coming through enjoy those moments because they go so quickly I think at times players can go away from right move on to the next game con next no Enjoy That space now and then move on you must have been disappointed though when on relift because obviously one of the big things you signed for is the fact that HRI is in in situ and you know 18 months after you sign he's gone I mean that must have been a bit of a disappointment for you yeah I took his number I was going to say because I mean I I can't I'm going to no so that story I didn't it was funny because you must have known you were taking this number it seems to be this illusion that you're trying to create well I wanted number eight no no but I I did want number eight right and the reason why I wanted number eight again was like back then it was like 1 to 11 with the starters honestly so it was like one to 11 with the starters I have number eight hopefully they give me number eight we were signing Naz at the time um VI said you can't have that I said all right I 14 he's like you know yeah 14 om yeah I'll just have that it's fine you do know om yeah like i' have his shirt it's for me now it's just a shirt but like yes I've got omry shirt and I understand what it means of course I do people have worn that since no problem like I didn't think too much of it because again for me really yeah I I mean he's your hero I mean he's an iconic footballer he's the no more more sorry more on the fact that vix you do understand it's for yes I do understand it's as On's number I'm just going to get on with it I didn't want to overthink it didn't weigh you no I mean they're tipping you as an next Onre and again that's people saying things like You' got ears you you know you know pressure is created you are you just you're just impervious to that sort of stuff it doesn't it doesn't come into your mindset what about people say about being a Wonder kid about um taking hre's shirt and the pressure that goes with it and the expectation of you and you're the next HRI none of that resonates with you or causes any concern for you or makes you think about what you're doing no in a fashion where it slightly unnerves you or creates some feeling of anxiety about it or I think as well like I say I as players you know if for instance you had a better game so I don't need other people to sort of to comment on it or if they do this that's fine they can of course they can but I don't need to go and find those comments no so for me yes people be compare me Tom R yeah I don't need to go find that to sort of make me feel more anxious about things because more sort of negative or positive whatever it is you know it's always going to hinder you in some way so I didn't want to distract myself from that side because I knew I focus on what I knew best was actually just playing football when you joined Arsenal in 2006 this is a it's a it's in part A winning machine isn't it it's a club that's become ACC climatized to winning things it's gone through a season 18 months ago that no one's ever been able to emulate but you mentioned a moment ago um about out top four becoming a trophy I I mean I'm being unkind here almost a participation medal and you come in between 2006 and 2014 and don't win win anything when did you notice or or the change of culture inside a club that you're signing for that you think you're going to win things to the seasons ticking by and you're not winning anything but we were making top four and that was the mindset it was at literally embedded in us now but by whom by actual players and the club itself like top four for me was was that was winning mentality though is it well you you sort of look at teams now like United and people like that people bite your hand off you're in the yeah but like yeah and I I hear your point but for me like I say people and teams particularly now want to be in top four and we were probably the starting of that pattern we probably were that pattern of every team now wanted to be that in part yeah okay that's that's assumed knowledge now that's hindsight looking at the reality of what people now consider at that time you know winning was winning and and your mindset seems to be that that was something that we now got now and everyone I bite you armor for being in the top four but back then that was a change in the culture of Arsenal and I'm curious to see how that sits with you you know you're very young still and it's important to understand even at that stage you know when when you when your first every Cup in 2014 you're still only 24 wow but where's your ambition because you don't seem to be overly bothered about having a move or moving on to other clubs that might be successful that give you an outcome that might involve you winning something because couple of years not winning something is one thing the best part of nearly a decade for an ambitious Wonder kid that's you know being her refen in the Wonder kid which I didn't call no no you didn't but all of those things resonate around you why didn't you look for a move somewhere else was that a lack of ambition a lack of opportunity I'd say it's the the character I am so going into football late I was a a person or as a kid who like to sort of be in the distance of quiet you know now I live out in the country I don't really want to be bothered particularly at times mhm because of the sort of sort of pressures leading up to this point now and for me I just enjoyed playing I just enjoyed playing football for Arsenal a club I loved you know eventually loved even more than I did with omry and I essentially just wanted to play football it's one reason why I sort of stopped playing football now but when people say you're 34 35 you stopped well I started so early and I just Lo lost the love of playing and I think I really loved playing football for particularly at that time in the Everton sandon but arsal particularly were the the best moments for me playing wise cuz I just loved football and now when I see players playing for their clubs and I see that they really care and they love playing you have some players don't win anything their all careers at all and they've had and they really but some players don't sign for Arsenal well it's a different Arsenal now oh yeah it's a different Arsenal now and that's and that's maybe where for instance you look at artetta who joined AR on at the time when we're going for a new transition of not winning anything what's the mindset what's the responsibility of the the sort of the players it was like they were because I I always used to see Mel would always see aren he would always talk to him and it was like he was getting molded to be the next not easy to say now but like molded to be not just say for Arsenal's manager but to be very high in that sort of establishment and it was like now I look at it and I think Mel's changed that whole sort of dynamic of what it was like for people just really enjoying playing football making top four was happy because that's what essentially what the group was we're happy playing football playing some nice nice football entertaining getting top four again the switch and mindset of the the invincibles moved to that and then you can get in a pattern where you join that or you move on I stayed in it and I was okay with that I didn't know other people to say you need to be ambitious and go I don't really quite frankly that's fine people can have that opinion but I was happy playing and enjoying that space so that's for one reason why I Eng that's an interesting perspective because I mean ultimately um what your perspective I mean it's not for me to question there but I'm I'm again I want to dig into the culture of of of Arsenal because you know I grew up you know uh watching Arsenal play I'm obviously I'm a lot older than you but I you know much older I'm Fair bit older mate but thank you I'll take them where I can get them um but I watched Arsenal change over the years and you know I had you know an interesting relationship with David Dean that I always admired is complete and utter Arsenal um and this culture of Arsenal being the sort of Bank of England Club but also a club that had a very strong attitude towards winning and then changing that culture and seeing it manifest itself on the pitch and I you know and a particular embodiment of that was someone like Mesa Özil and obviously he was signed in 2013 directly after that you win the FA Cup in 2014 and I'm very curious to see what your view on is with with Wenger and I'm going to use o OZO as a hook on this conversation and you'll see where I'm going with it in a second I mean Wenger talked about the change of attitude towards him and towards the end of his tenure the sort of brutality and hostil that he was uh the victim of um as in arson or MZ as in arson right and I'm going to go back to mes and say when I looked at Players like Mesa Özil who seemed to be a thorn in his paw because he was responsible for the lucrative nature of meesza ul's contract and I remember watching you guys in 2017 play against my old team Palace when Sam allad had just gone in there and you were awful you got beat three new at s Park and it just seemed to body the culture of Arsenal you know and mes Özil was the sort of indicator of that uh in terms of LAX of days are called disinterested unengaged participating in a game because he had to um and trying to get a flavor of a is that the wrong way to look at Meesa Özil and that particular individual and and B Wenger and this hostility that he described and how much responsibility you players uh take for that yeah no I I hear your point of course I mean you sign ö from Real Madrid all of a sudden yes it puts even Arsenal even know on the map even more so we've now signed a player where like you're going back to we're not won anything for a period of time sign his players won multiple things and his whole demeanor mzs was he was so relaxed to this point of at times you actually think is there anything going on up there he generally did no honestly even off the field but for me yeah he was a gifted player but the Premier Leagues you've seen a lot of players come from abroad who are slightly older who struggled in the Premier League and not same as it's struggled but there's certain moments in certain games where you don't play mes or you don't play that petite sort of type of player in a certain game mes oo was someone that would make things happen but on his time mhm and training the same you want to be in this F side team you would only when you have the ball right when you haven't got the ball you have an issue and that and and those games particularly sou parks of course big Sam we all know how that's going to be rough up sort of these sort of players they're not going to be interested and he was one of those players in those sort of times would not be interested and that's nothing against that's just wasn't his player that was just wasn't his player and that's when you you go back to ask look I I regard arson as one of the best managers I've obviously worked with him for a long time but as a manager when I sit back now and I look even like with Gareth and I look at certain things you've got to sometimes make that big decision you've got to sometimes be that person that's going to do what everyone's thinking at times and then when then you don't do it that's when you get questioned and maybe certain times arson will probably and he probably Adit admit to this as well that could have protected those or protected himself or taken him off in certain situations not even played him but that's probably the the point when arson was probably yeah a year before he was leaving where you start to see a little bit of cracks potentially that maybe the Love of the Game was fading away in the manager sense and he wanted to move on to something different it's a bit like for instance me I could still play now of course I could still play but if I'm not going to be loving playing I'm not going to do myself any favors I'm not going to do the club I'm do any favors or the fans that's not fair so why why do that come out of that space so maybe ARS stayed on for too long and maybe there's a little bit of similarity in the fact that for me Arsenal I wanted to leave I left what 2018 I think and ARS left the same year I think you wanted to leave Arsenal me did you wanted to leave Arsenal yeah I did I did want to leave I wanted to leave Arsenal because I wanted just just something different change the scenery I just want to change the scenery I was there for 12 11 years 11 yeah 11 12 years and for me was just I just want something different in life now to see what else was out there and I really a big Sam I was a big M anyway and he called me up and I was I really wanted to go go work with big Sam I just in mind with Harry a little bit and I thought you know I'd love to actually have the opportunity to sort of play with you in a different I mean it's as Wenger and Sam they're completely different Power oppos yes did you players ever a question venger no never no I wouldn't I wouldn't ever question benger in a in a in a never would do that I would i' see him individually and question myself to him on certain things I would never do it as as an open a team thing no do you think that's unhealthy thing to do with a manager I think well I in like challenging a manager at times well there's a way to challenge manager isn't you don't have to be disrespectful you can put your point of view across by having a an alternative point of view and seeing if the manager can Embrace that I mean is it something that you think is the wrong thing to do challenge it's not challenging the man Authority we're not asking you we're not asking you to do a Roy Kean in in no play um look I think it was it was difficult because the the structure of the club was changing dramatically and I think arson really knew that to go and approach the manager and actually take on that responsibility like no it's on us was difficult for the players because arson would always protect the players because arson I mean when when I think of Arsenal now you think of arson I still do to this day and that still will be with a lots of people and I think that's the sad truth when you see how it ended with the fans and just how it was the Emirates itself which was at times incredible you look at it now compared to what it was like it was don't get wrong it was incredible place to play I'm not dis disregarding that but if you go there now it is it's just a diff it's just a different level yeah and it's like we've now reconnected and I F at times we ar and the players disconnected a littleit our ttic is a conjur for the reconnection isn't he I mean I I went a couple of times last year um to see Arsenal and I was you know once upon a time it was described as a library um and now it's nothing like that at all the atmosphere is fervent it's almost um you know feral at times and febal um arteta has done things quite differently um to um wenga you know you've alluded to the fans we've only only very isolated instances that predominantly Wenger would steer away from confrontation I like managers that are prepared to have confrontation not as their stable diet but have it in their locker if it needs to be there so people get their minds concentrated relatively quickly and know where they place on the food chain is but arteta seems to have steered into that because of his um scenario with um uh aubameyang which I thought was absolutely right I thought that you know that was there was a key determining Factor on perhaps the reasons why artetta was able to weather the storm clouds that were building around him ultimately be backed by the balls yeah but as play like for instance when you see a player who's in your squad goes off and has a tattoo during the game or something like that wasn't it and other instances yeah and a manager doesn't deal with it it's you you don't need those players around because they're going to influence the group yeah and yeah like I say Mel has definitely learned a lot from Arson he's got his qualities but he's also got that other dark I think which also also help do you look at Essa uh because I've had mixed emotions about him I when he first went there I thought yeah I like you I think you've got the chops for this then I thought you you're beginning to disappear up your own ass you sound like you're all Theory and no substance right and now I'm very much a convert to the fact that I I love the way he dealt with aubameyang I felt it was the right thing to do I think it showed strength decisiveness and character and Leadership and some people will point to that as the turning points she funny say that the turning point I remember my experience with Mel when he was a player and again hindsight's a great thing but I look at it now turning point for me was when we weren't making top four at the time and he I mean Aron's there we have training in 30 minutes Mel's literally locked the dressing room players only and it's like he was I'm taking control of this whole Space I'm going to tell you how it is it's an open room if anyone else wants to speak I've always stick with me I've been remember it was like he was the manager there in that moment for me that was a turning point thing and I was like this guy he' be a manager i' would love to play with this guy and then after that we made top four that year and it was that one particular speech ARS was outside waiting for us to train we were not out there because Mel stopped training That's How Strong of a character he was that even our was AF afraid of him and going back to the the confrontations what did he say there what's he saying to you guys basically I think as well he was a sense of he was sick of peace and quiet like quiet yeah being too nice going back to the the calmness around this sort of group and he wanted people to say truths a bit more actually it's a safe environment it's a safe space it stays here no one is not going anywhere unless any of you lot put it out there and I think that moment I mean he did a lot of the talking but there was certain players that you haven't heard speak suddenly like goodness me he sounds like that does he I don't really really didn't speak there was certain players that wouldn't want to say a word but that moment he gave that safe space for the players because we're all here to listen because all want the same goal and he allowed that which finish top four at the time yeah because we were really struggling um and it worked look so I think it's in creating that safe environment I think Mel's done that with the fans safe supportive Network he's reconnected everyone from obviously the documentary and everything as well to actually get a real insight to things of things like people haven't seen which is fine but he's done that and for me the moment was that which was back in I think that was 2017 I think so yeah I mean you think do you think he'll be ultimately successful at Arsenal because ultimate success now is not while Pep's pep really pep well someone asked me this the other day and I always like to you know give my honest sort of Truth to Poli look I'm not going to be Aral heavy I'm not that sort of person but of course I want Arsenal to be successful Mel will be successful why Pep's there it's the problem because he's so successful everywhere he goes he's he's obviously he's train Mikel as well as long as I any and I just think Pep's involved in Man City they all keep on winning things as soon as he moves on that's when the new I think that's when other teams will start to actually be able to win things I think I think M's in the right direction of course close though I mean oh yeah a couple of cut games over Christmas West Ham and Fulham and I know people will make out the two games against Aston Villa but that run over Christmas I mean you're what two points behind the margins are there aren't they it's yeah it's the look The it's it's going to happen at some point it's just while pep it's very difficult to beat him at the moment and he knows that and he's he's competitive after Mel so he's going to want to beat him while he's still there not when he moves on so he's he's he's hungry so I hope he does but like I say going back to the thing I think pep will still win I really do I just want to touch on your contractual situation with Arsenal during the time is it right in 2012 when you're reported to be negotiating a new deal that one of the conditions of it was that you wanted to play down the middle so I wanted to be given the opportunity to play down the middle wasn't actually in a contract itself I just more more had the conversation me me and Aron of having the opportunity to play in that space so n like I want to needs to be in the contract to play here I wasn't that sort of person no I mean what is your best position what did you think was your best position see I I would say my best position was was the right I played the most of it on there but at times I think again going back to the knowing the sort of games you're against certain teams I could adapt and play in certain positions and it's going back to the looking at managers not just playing players because of their names or what they've done actually looking at a system and thinking where can I actually penetrate where can I utilize this certain attribute it's going to disrupt this other team and that's going back to when you play down the middle you I mean you have been you were very effective at times I mean I'm looking at a statistic here which talks about in the 38 appearances through the middle you had 28 goal involvements of which 20 were goals and eight were assists but you were never played there consistently I mean that's pretty that's pretty dark isn't it I mean you what did you score 84 goals in 420 games for Aral or something 108 108 including Cup games 100 for in the board written on the wall I'm not taking I was looking at League games that's fine that's fine I but when you're playing down the center you're prolific yeah and yet you're you're not playing down we prolific I was prolific pry that that that year yeah look like I wasn't the biggest person but I knew where the space was I knew when to make runs and that was frustrating things at times people think like you play him up front I was happy to be on the pitch any time I really was right I really was I mean like I say but even though even though you're making it part of the conversation in a contract um in terms of you're not making it a contractual obligation because it would be difficult to paper that you're making it clear to the person I.E the manager that this is where you would like to be given an opportunity so after that as well I did my knee so I did my knee in fact the following year I think back in 2014 then I didn't really get a chance to play up front again after that if you look back I I I remember very clearly I didn't I was very I was different after that the injury it took a lot out of me right and that was the the hardest thing coming back from that because I was never quite the same still had the pace to some extent but the fear of it going even to the day now at times if I have a feeling it's like it reminds me of that when I did it and it's not a nice feeling it's not a nice memory at all for me right and I think that always with me a bit when I was playing always concerned that it might go again at some point it's going back to I love the Athletics you know a sprinter needs to be at his best to to perform I had to be pretty much 100% really to be at my best do do you look back on your career I'm going to say something you might think is pretty mean-spirited but given given the Arsenal's achievements when you were there for 11 years it was a three fa CS isn't a compelling total of trophies given what you walked into I mean there is a school of thought that you you could be considered as the poster boy for a Barren period in it's a bit mean spirited but I'm going to put it to you you did say yeah I did say sort of soften the blow before landing it okay I mean is there any fairness in that observation because do you look at Your Arsenal time as as as a success I do I do like I personally do because again it's going back to the the amount of players that actually make it to the to any level is is particularly hard in their own sense and for me to play for Arsenal to score 100 goals for them as well and to play for England for me I enjoyed every I was success I was a success there about winning the Premier League yeah but I wouldn't put it just down to to myself no I never looked at like that side of it is there moments where yes could have been better you know you look back of course hindsights of course it of course it could be but I don't dwell on that anymore because I enjoyed that moment and it probably from a sense it's probably why I stopped so so young because those moments I really enjoyed and then yes don't get wrong I enjoyed Everton I really did good ason Park I enjoy s but it wasn't that that I had Arsenal I still enjoy it but that's when I thought no I don't need to do this I don't want to do this anymore I think you will start seeing players finishing earlier than they have done you at edin Hazard finish than me gare you have the players that when they get to a certain point when they've been built up to a certain point they just think I don't need this anymore I'm going to move you on to England um and your England career I mean you were caught up in 2006 again in a for me strange way in a strange way you don't play for Arsenal it's first team that season and yet you're called up for the England squad for the World Cup 2006 much to um Germaine defos suar in I imagine well I think isn't it yeah and down yeah as well yeah um I mean how does that manifest itself you've got Wenger apparently lobbying for that um which is surprising to me I thought Seng G Ericson was the manager picking the players but how how how do we get to a stage where a 16-year-old that's signed for Arsenal that's played 21 games in the championship that hasn't played any Premier League games is now in the England squad I mean what's what's that like for you what's going on in your mind real it's it's do you know it was scary it really was I remember when the score got announced and I was just sat in the living room and similar space to this sort of thing not quite as nice as this but like similar and um I remember the Sven coming to training watching training not thinking too much of it to be honest because I do remember like you know him and AR had a good relationship but then there was wh was of I say you might being a 30 and I didn't really think too much of it I really didn't thinking okay I didn't want to dwell into that I didn't want to sort of dive into that and then when the squad got announced I found out like everyone else as well you get like the text or whatever but like I didn't really I didn't I was literally found out on the TV screens and when it happened it was like I was I was shocked I was shocked but also scared at the same time and I had to turn the TV off I turn it off and I end up playing World Cup Monopoly enough and didn't really take it in didn't take it in until the next day when I when I go to the training training ground everyone's congratulating you being in a third like being in the squad not really thinking what's going to happen now I didn't really with the was it the Wags and the the paparazzi the paparazzi was was a sort of scary process I mean I I was filming them all with my cam recorder which I've looked back on of some of this footage which is very interesting to see because you see like a a 17-year-old I don't want to show Too Much actually with this but like I'll show you a little snippet where any kid's dream is playing football like a lot of kids love play football playing the World Cup for England is is a dream is ultimately my dream has actually come to fruition and then you see this 17-year-old kid which I was excited the longer and longer the tournament goes on is interest in how going about mental health and all this side of it how that changes someone and it'll be a very interesting watch potentially at some point we see but yeah that was that was when I look back at that side of it should never happen I've said this should never have happened is anybody saying to you at the time maybe this is not the right move for you maybe this is too much to sue you try telling that to to a kid who doesn't play for England you've been picked to play in 23 try to tell that to someone that you don't go you shouldn't go you're not going to go like look I just want tell it but I just wanted to play football I didn't look at like I said I turn TV off I didn't want to look at the noises like I didn't really communicate to the sort of media side I never had media training or any of that side of it so I've been sprung into this unaware and not really expecting what's going to happen really didn't but again like even the players that are around me were incredible Ashley Cole particularly because I was at Arsenal he SE and soul them two particularly they're like my big brothers like they're proper looking after me but they didn't have to look after me when I actually was on the playing field and that's probably where the respect I got a little bit more from the black your Gerards because Jed's even said I should I know that I shouldn't have been there but I got a little bit more respect when playing that's the disappointing thing when you go away and you don't play that's the hard bit and that's when it's going back to the me feeling myself seeing you like not playing and yeah that that was a that's a difficult space because I look at this team now and your your comparisons to J B is completely different I so I don't well that's what I was going to ask well I that's why I keep on using the terminology Wonder kid because it's a hook into players like yourself like Jude Bellingham like foden and Once Upon a Time like Wayne Rooney and this buildup of expectation and awareness and thrusting you into the Limelight and all the attention that goes on and often in in the British media which is the British media's sometimes desire build people up so they can Whittle them down I mean you're about to say that it's different now were you going to say that I was what what's the different in your in your eyes do you see it differently well I wasn't party to it so no but on the outside if you like you go on about me not playing for seven months and go I compar Jude for instance so Jude who's 21 20 he has now experienced something I didn't do was playing at the highest level yeah playing at the highest level now Real Madrid actually doing doing this thing MH I at 17 didn't experience that experienced it at some point but not not at 2021 and when I when I going back to the the start of the of the Pod just in regards to comparing the younger player when you talk about young players they're mid 20s these days they're not younger players no absolutely and I think you have to you know you don't have to agree but like just the fact of now these are these are young men now they're not young players they're young men you know in a man's game that's how it works now and I look at Jude and how he deals with the pressure of you know the Real Madrid and you know he's definitely got an awe around him he's got presence around him we just have to at times maybe he's 20 and yes because he's been there and he's done it already I I was I hadn't done it it I was developing to hopefully do it at some point but not like Jude does so those comparisons are very different for me I I believe I mean talking about this team I mean Southgate Southgate was pretty much I mean you played for him once yeah played for him yeah yeah couple Yeah couple times so he was the sort he he he was intern manager wasn't he yeah but that he was the last International manager that you played for yes I mean what was your did you get the impression that that that that that he that you weren't for him I got the impression that he was going to go away from and do something different right I got the sense of because obviously he's work with the 21s likes the sort of younger fresh it was going a different way it was going a different way and I understood that I understood that I really did I I felt look if that's where you're going to go that's fine I feel like I still got something to to offer but when a manager has made a decision it's hard to change that and You' got to accept that as a player and move on you really do and it took me a while to move on don't get wrong someone said you're not playing for England again but then you got to try and work to get it and then you don't do it again and you bloody three caps away from 50 50 is a nice mark 47 she wants to call me out for this tournament I don't think I can make do it now but might been do it last night but um back for Denmark but um look he wanted to go another way and now he's got into a this is where we look at this team and we going back to the we're putting a lot of pressure on the team because expectations changed of where they are of what G's done course you're big players with lots of say for and you get all the benefits of playing for the best club so I think there should be some pressure and you've been to World Cup semi-finals and European championship finals and quarter finals against the French and all of them we've had opportunities to win yeah so I think there they're entitled to pressure but Southgate what's your takeaway I mean you you had a brief experience with him he mate went on a different direction I think you're probably right in your assessment if you're the 21's manager the first thing you're going to do bring the young players through because that's what you know and and ultimately as an fa man he will fit a certain model your overall takeaway about Southgate and what he's done over the period of time he's done it do you like it do you think he's been a good thing do you think he's a successful manag do you think they're going to win this European Championship I don't think they win the European Championship no if I'm being I don't think they will um I just think it's really difficult when you come to home s of Germans particularly I fancy them not even before balls kicked in the first game I know they haven't been tested as but just some think about the Germans I always feel like you got to be fearful of Spain as well them too I've enjoyed the fact that he again he's reconnected the fans in the certain tournaments this one started to slightly go away from it I was GNA say but I would say the positive side of it would be he made some changes early on that people didn't really expect he's not done really I just think maybe the certain Personnel that should have begun off in that certain game was wrong me personally I just think it's going back to looking at the situation of who do you feel is going to get us on the ball calm us down and then stretch the team as well and I just felt I love Jude I think he's brilliant but he look tired I think it's it's a tournament football he's going play a lot he's played a lot of football I would like to see some Jude maybe drop back and start carrying the ball from Deep maybe deing at times I think he can do it I think he can and I'd probably like to see Anthony Gordon but use your squad otherwise you're going to start getting little clicks on that bench or you're not I don't know what the might even fall into that I imagine that OE Watkins and Ivan Tony sitting there watching Kane in the first game Thinking H maybe we should get a shout here look I think it's you need legs around Harry you do need legs around Harry you do um but they not desing what Harry's done for but it doesn't mean anyone's everyone is not Beyond reproach no one should be immune to a change no but he made that big decision he took off Harry and that was the one and it's interesting now he's made he's done the first which is always the hardest thing to do doing the first time which then now you look it he will do it again and he will get it right and then everyone's going to that whole gon he's done it it's just I think we're going to start seeing a different side of later the competition goes because ultimately we want to win it and then he's made that big shout of Harry Kane taking Harry Kane out the next one will be taking if Jude out if he's quite like that that's be to see last question for you when you look back on you you know again I use this over expression that you never use but the media us which is a Wonder kid of 16 year old and and and the career that you've had England um Arsenal um and Everton and Southampton going back to where you started and as a 35y old man when you look back at it did it play out the way you thought it would never been asked that question Simon I think what played out ultimately scoring over 100 goals for Arsenal Football Club that not many play do yes not winning Premier Leagues an English young man winning FA Cup which FA Cup means a lot to me personally look it's a hard question to answer because you ultimately want to have all the the lights of course you do but did it map out maybe he didn't map out his like the injuries that maybe defected sort of certain sort of situations but I wouldn't change it I wouldn't change anything if I was going to change one thing i' probably change the World Cup side of things that's the one you're happy with your lot I'm happy with my lot not many not many players play for Arsenal and score 100 goals I'm pleased with that and what next for you next for me hopefully be in that chair interviewing you one day Med boy no um what's next for me look I'm I want to start actually it's another side of it where I've missed a lot of my sort of children's lives as well in in the football you you're thrown all over the place and it's nice to actually now be involved in that side of it a lot more but at some point potentially as well maybe coaching but I just want to sort of enjoy being with my family yeah being my young little ones because I've missed out a lot and I think that's really important to me um with the sort of childood I had I think it's important for me to be around my kids as well a lot but look I enjoyed watching football more than I'm playing that I played but there know last night when I watched that game it wasn't that that that love was a little bit there like I could play this game but yeah that that's that's next for me well done good luck thank you very much thanks for being so up front with me up front with me Simon Jordan is brought to you by William Hill for new weekly shows subscribe to our YouTube channel you can find audio episodes on Spotify apple or wherever you get your podcasts 18 plus please gamble responsibly

Channel: Up Front

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Keywords: simon jordan, up front, up front with simon jordan, podcast, theo walcott, theo walcott highlights, theo walcott arsenal, theo walcott interview, euro 2024 england, euro 2024 standings, euro 2024 predictions, simon jordon euro 2024, simon jordan theo walcott, germany, arsenal, three up front germany, up front germany, up front euro 2024, simon jordan euro 2024, up front new episodes

Id: TQkulAf-Mvk

Length: 65min 3sec (3903 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 27 2024