Art Cafe #107 - Ash Thorp - Best Time to Learn is Now

welcome back to the our cafe this is episode 107 I'm recording this episode on March 18th and I invited my best friend ash Thorpe we talked about current state of things with corona virus pandemic and and how it's affecting artists and people alike with this episode we wanted to encourage people to stay positive look for good sources of news if you want to stay informed and then take an opportunity because this is probably one of the better times to actually learn new skills I hope you're gonna enjoyed this one and let's go [Music] [Music] a bonus Opera House yeah yeah that's pretty cool to sharing the birthday with a Brandi Brandi Brandi Brandi Brenda Loney Brenda lone yeah you have you have the same the same day birthday yeah the fatty schwabe I have the same birthday as the mr. ranks yeah Ronnie gives that pretty ironic right and you're the same age too which is even crazier so yeah forty-five years old yeah do I look 53 stick glasses like young he's like he's what like 89 what is he you got those fast-food filled cheeks right there puffed up Puff Daddy cheeks cheeks could audition for a gay little music video and whip everybody 12 it's interesting to you about all this whole thing is going on and I think there's a lot of people that were curious about working remote and then now that there's this mandatory thing for everybody to work remote it's kind of cool I mean that's there's people that I know are like trippy now there I go no I don't know what I'm gonna do and then there are some people are like finally yes and I know you're one of them to have to be working at home again yeah it's good and bad but at the same time it's pretty cool cuz working from home is actually really good people are asking me oh how are you dealing with this isolation thing I'm like it's awesome I love it like me might be think than me months I've sent you yeah which film was was that from like got Goodfellas yeah I was from Goodfellas the when they are laughing enough used to HIV that one I think I did I don't remember we've sent so many memes to one another president Singh Rana virus is the epic Mimi's yeah I mean all right so it's talking about it's still December December what am I seeing it's March of 52 its March 18 as we're recording it it's gonna be probably released over the weekend so as of today there is no quarantine in the United States but there is there are countries that they do have quarantine like Italy and and Spain which is not I mean it's not ideal I cannot I cannot express like I have no idea what it is out there I can just only imagine based on the information that's that's being presented to us but I think it's coming to us yeah 30-yard yes they call it they call it either certain counties in California that I already do it they call it what they call it set up settle in place or something like that and basically you can get the misdemeanor ticket for just wandering around for for nothing really yeah they already are doing it in some countries they were doing it I think in Palm Springs as well but dude like on one end it's like free country you know Constitution yessiree conch Constitution all that stuff but on the other hand dude people are [ __ ] crazy I mean I understand this is this is not there's so many misleading information that's out there I don't read I tried not to read to any of that I usually just go see DC or local health department just to get like actual information on the what's going on and it's actually you know and I normally don't care about news but this is like a situation where I want to be prepared to know what's going on more or less I just like every other day or they I'll just check the the Health Department just to get an information what's going on they usually post information about the county and also like some some of the things that are going on so it's good to know you know I don't think it's gonna be you know I might be wrong who knows we don't know I don't think it's gonna be as terrible as some people say I don't also think it's gonna be just as mild as others are saying is somewhere in between yeah who knows I do respect the approach that people are having that which is like respecting the possible potential danger this is never happen I remember and stars and bird flu came through America and everybody's like yeah whatever yeah because it wasn't spreading as much I mean a lot of people died and I mean bird flu would if the bird flu had the same contraction number as as this disease will be [ __ ] yeah seriously legit plague you know yeah yeah so it's not as bad like a 20% death rate like that would that's like country and every shuddering about anyways the positive I want to focus on positives just like a lot of cops yeah [ __ ] that a lot of people who are listening to the podcast right now that is a special episode are here just to hear something positive obviously like get some entertainment and whatnot so you know I honestly like a people with hope we're all gonna die [Laughter] [ __ ] listening to this podcast from outside of you babe it's Angeles right now no like I've said like hey this is like a good time to get people you know get some good vibes cuz everyone's sitting at home what are they like it or not and we are sitting at home because we do it all the time anyways most of the time there's no change for us awesome yeah and you know we as I said like yeah let's do it and then you were like yeah I don't know and then you like it was an hour later dude we should totally do a podcast guys I was like two years later dude let's true that you know I wrong that's how popular dogs did get that idea in your head I wish you podcast and obviously we asked you asked and I asked on social media if people have any questions we will definitely jump into that later down the road we haven't spoken in a while I did what was the like I had the last podcast we did was a year ago actually we do I mean we talk every five every every other minute we we talk obviously on the podcast however I think the 100 episode 100 episode that was last year that was the last time we did one mm-hmm and you are definitely the guest that shows up the most on this thing that's a good thing or bad thing I just run out of ideas I don't know I I like interviewing people and then talking with artists and you know I had a director like animation director recently and trying to get some some good people on the podcast it's great obviously you learn from them as well but then again like talking with friends I think is that yeah nothing beats that it's just just fun it's it's there's a second hand that's easy to just get to the points faster and it's you because when you're talking to the stranger you just whole like dancing anything to blurrier okay like what oh you like this and yeah and then you have to do it in real time so ya know yeah yeah but a lot of I love a lot I mean a lot of things changed since last time we spoke officially to the public yeah I'm 37 years ago there yeah you're old happy birthday by the way because that's your birthday today Phil as we're recording it yeah they got don't need five minutes worth of my birthday and I'm gonna getting all juice that [ __ ] called your bulb zero [ __ ] a lot of things just have changed because like I'm you I remember we were just the last time we did episode together you were just started doing here near a new film we talked about the passage there's a new one that you've been bombarding me with the BTS all the time my Star Wars stuff yeah yeah we haven't talked about that and she talked about if you want yeah of course yeah it's a huge project there's a lot of sessions that come with that one like did we get permission from Disney and can we and can we make it and all these kind of things and it's the sketchy sketchy thing how do we approach that because like that's that's obviously a question that people will ask because like you know you kind of wanna I mean fan art is is a big thing right yeah I mean wherever you look most of the artists have at least tried to do a phone art you know that and it yeah yeah yeah most of the artists I would say have done it at some point in their lives so but then the but then making short film or or making like a homage you know that's that's that's just like another level of fun art I think yeah it's very similar yeah it's it's just like moving illustrations basically you know every every frame of the 24 frames of every second of the film is basically a painting with with audio and you know it's just like a constant moving thing but so what what inspired you to do it like I know you're a big fan of of the of the original trial of dude or actually the first two the first two movies that came out yeah was there any like particular reason outside of just like I'm a you know I want to do my own version yeah I went out to Mojave with my buddy cram and my friend Toros shout-out to my homies we went and just we were doing like just like a fun trip I'd been out there and I really wanted to got really into photography still em and I wanted to go and take photos out there and just have camping trip and then I was just sitting there and it was it was it's otherworldly when you're in Mojave because nobody's there most of the time and it's completely state-owned so there you're not allowed to drive through it and stuff and it's just epic it's huge its massive and it's protected and it's awesome so when you're there you feel like you're a character in Star Wars on another planet and so right in my head I was like hmm like should definitely like conceive of an idea to do out here could be really cool and so I started thinking of an idea and had some like rough concepts and then I took my buddy Olaf Amyris about it because I know he's a big star Wars fan and I was like hey you know we're doing potentially talking about maybe doing something a lot of people friends of mine we all want to collaborate with on another so it's kind of like we're all just kind of sharing different common interests and wanting to talk about oh we should do this and that so at the time had kind of come for us to align on something he was really into it and then so that's kind of how it started I think the main impetus was of it is originally it was supposed to be like just kind of a CGI and footage kind of thing and it was most mostly to exercise like well let's do like with everything I tried to do is like one step closer to the bigger goal right that was one step closer which is like oh let's but that was for the visit backside and then Anthony's got burns he's a bit of a mentor of mine he was like don't be a coward like go get actors and like make a story and like so he kept pushing me and all off and then we started to write the story and a year later which a nice guy he will tell you don't be a coward I ask you something you say don't be a [ __ ] yeah it's the same thing it's the same thing just the different words he's sensitive yeah but yeah I mean it's I'm obviously a fan I grew up with it's got a high influence on me but I also wanted to kind of do my own personal take on it and kind of evolve some of the feelings that I had like as a kid I was a Star Wars fan and as an adult I'm a fan of film and so it's like merging those two but yeah it's been really crazy and no we haven't asked any permission from from Disney I'm hoping that is if it's in the claws of like fan film stuff because we're not making any profit off of it and most likely we're gonna remove the Star Wars logo from any branding of it so it is actually the reign of solace could actually be its own thing there's only a couple similarities from the original franchise that they think they can come after us with but when I google like fan films and stuff it's like blatant madness out there like it's legit like a free-for-all [ __ ] show so I want to be respectful to the right holders and all this stuff and with every project we do every passion project is because they show one or the akhira one like we've never made any money off of any of those things yeah directly I mean technically you aren't supposed to obviously it's illegal yeah it's you see those posters that people try to sell all the time that's like one of the reasons you know people are asking us hey the Blade Runner poster is like when you guys gonna start selling it or where do you are you selling it ever or what's happening and the reality is we've done it for really Scott and Alcon and and unless they decide at some point that they would want to resit and and make a profit out of that which I don't think it aligns with what what they do at all we just cannot do it it's just illegal it's not our property we got paid to do that work so yeah it belongs to them yeah yeah unfortunately yeah and that's it's theirs to kind of sit on or do whatever they want with unfortunately but that's just kind of goes so you know we should do in other projects at some point the real tricky thing is we could do our own the IP but nobody knows it really except like our diehard fans so bless you guys you guys are [ __ ] awesome but anybody else outside of that like to to really connect with people which I agree is like let's go do like a cowboy bebop thing or something that actually has an appeal or a Batman thing but you can't just do that you have to go through the hoops of the legality of it there's a whole legal process the mom at the moment that you turn the art into money is in exchange and there's a business the per transaction that occurs and so you have to be professional about it and respectful and courteous to the right holders because there's a reason why and it's out of respecting you gotta respect that so yeah it's yeah it's if there is a reason why it's legal because they've built the brand and now you're profiting it profiting of it by not coming up with your own ideas you know yeah but straightening yeah you know a lot of people always ask that you know what do you do like is is it even okay to do fun are obvious obviously it's okay I don't think there's I don't think there was any litigation that I've heard about that a big company would go after an artist for doing a fun art as long as they are not you know monetizing on it it's it gets a little sketchy cuz I don't know how how how it's being dealt with when you're let's say making YouTube videos or content that is behind the paywall meaning like you're producing something and all of a sudden there's ads associated to it which makes the video being monetized in a way yeah or just simply just monetizing video i I don't know how I mean technically it shouldn't be legal but I don't know I see more often especially nowadays with like how YouTube is growing and how everything is kind of going towards streaming and online that the the companies like Disney and lucasfilm's and over Lucasfilm belongs to Disney but Disney and Disney kind of owns everything or weren't raised either sir yeah any of like some of those companies start to reach out to to creators and and offer like collaborations after they Co are like you did this awesome thing that became just wildly popular and and now we want to do a project with you you know which is just encouraging because it kind of shows that you know there's one of the I kind of remember cause I was talking about this but you know like sometimes you work for a company especially if you don't have it in a contract or if you're like if I'm pretty sure you had that situation when you're younger and had less notoriety where you would work for someone and you would finish a project and you would want to release it and they would say no mmm you know it's our band it's just like and it's usually just like this some old farts sitting in market marketing or like someone who's just like so smug but you know they want to justify what they do and it's alright say oh yeah true that's true and you get paid for them yeah I know I know I was at the kids no no I agree I agree 100% unless you have it in a contract that I mean technically you should not supposed to you know be pitching yeah I purposely make I don't sign contracts that make me not allow me to share work later yeah is it slower use or you can sign a contract that ok I'm not going to share any of that work it's gonna be up to your discretion but you have to pay me more give me that double cheddar babe yeah you have to pay me more because we know we know artists me and you that working like cancelled projects back-to-back and they have nothing to show for like years and years and if you don't do like your own projects it's very difficult to show anything you have and ya can get dodgy but it still happens where companies are like I'm not gonna you cannot share any of it because we have marketing purposes and then two years go by everyone forgot about a project there was no marketing purpose to the project whatsoever and you ask yourself a question like really like I could have shared it and you'd gain like extra few fans that are the fans of my work you know yeah they would go to see the movie or buy the game just because they liked the work of the artists that work on it yeah so I I yeah it's one of those things I I think it's ego based there you go but it is changing I I think the more of like the current generation of artists and Marc marketers and you know creative people that are going into those departments and work with those companies that have there are more savvy in terms of how things really work yeah yeah it just becomes it just becomes a little easier yeah I'm it stops to also for this kind of thing it stops all of us just kind of going hey let's all agree not to sign contracts that don't allow artists rights to show the work again and for some companies that makes sense the whole thing is you should respect the due date obviously of the release thing it's damaging to the property if you really something and then the competitor takes that idea and then releases it prior to them it's damaging to them because it's virtual property and they own that every minute of your day that they pay for that they own you and your ideas and whatever you make if that's in the contract but the thing that you should try to figure out for me at least is well once this is done I should have the ability to share it because you know important you know so there's a lot of things in this industry that really bother me that why make me wanna like stop working in it but you know deep in it it's like what I'm going to do how's the singing I just say John Ward's podcast today with Joe and I was like ha man like I could totally see doing something with cars but I was like man car industry is probably just as bad not worse you know yeah every industry has these pitfalls especially if you aspire to do something to make and do big things every time you try to move things you're gonna hit resistance and you're having to deal with like is this worth it you know and all that kind of stuff you know so yeah tricky stuff yeah it gets tricky but I agree there's there's certain things that are like really that doesn't work that way what is changing like that's that's the like the positive that I that I've noticed that there's less and less resistance and you know I think I think that the tip of it is right now with creators that like people who are creating like just like we talked about fun art like how many movies are being in talks to make because someone made like hugely successful fan art you know yeah it just shows like it's it's like almost like a free metrics for those companies like oh there's a certain buzz about this this product you know yeah that we never thought that it's going to be interesting for people and there's a bunch of art is doing fun art of it and and they're getting like huge numbers of views there might be something in it so there's a recognition there for sure I mean we see it all the time like pretty much most of the movies are now remakes or reboots or like literally just taking existing properties and making them into something different or yeah in a different style at least so that's happening and I think I think it's gonna extend itself to the fact where you know more and more artists become I think I think we're in encouraging the world especially now with like this whole you know quarantine and shelter in place all those things wild things going on in the world the the big companies that will always insist like you have to be in the office this is the most important thing like you have to be there now they have no choice haha and and I will not come to LA to do coffee party bring parties with you know [Laughter] and III think well now it's it that the big companies are facing the reality of like we have to do it or whatever we like it or not but I think this is the moment in time where it's almost like shifting gears and I think remote work will actually start picking up from from this moment on I hope so yeah there's a there's this book it was you yeah you recommended it at you know yeah remote it was from like 2015 was like well it wasn't yeah it's a pretty old book and a lot of things that the book talks about we already kind of do me and you yeah but you know I was commuting I was actually reading this book and commuting and it kind of like gave me PTSD from the times when I was actually commuting all the time I was like oh my god I'm wasting so much time in the traffic oh my god I get interrupted all the time all those things where I was just like I sit at home wake up at the time I I'm fresh you know I don't have to wake up before traffic because otherwise they're gonna be stuck in stuck in traffic and completely pissed off you know sure I don't know yeah so I thought your artistic brain to do that yeah yeah the tools we have now really allow to make the remote work work really well and sometimes more productive than the studio work I can still see there's certain like road blocks here and there yeah of course um you know especially if you're in a like fast-paced environment it can get really difficult because like it's it's a one thing to be available all the time just to get like quick feedback that brings distractions but if you have a really well-organized office where you can focus and work and then you get distracted when you want to be distracted meaning like you would ask for help or ask for feedback and you get it almost immediately or much faster than if you would send feedback to you know and wait for an email back or something like that but you can you can get yourself in a situation where it's not gonna like even you even though you're working remotely you might get yourself in the situation where you're gonna be exposed to constant disruptions as well like let's say you work for film or a video game and you Express to client hey I gonna have Skype open ping me anytime right yeah if you have notifications on and if they're overzealous you will be distracted all the time yeah so it's gonna be very difficult to focus but but I think Meyer so do you fire yourself from jobs I don't know I I did once I bring or twice I definitely did that there were projects where I was just like I would do something and I was I wouldn't be sure if like it's working I wouldn't get feedback or were I was just like [ __ ] out of it you know almost and I know it's something you know I used to say all the time like on every project you should put your best and obviously that's always true but there's some there's just sometimes clients you're gonna work with that is just not gelling no matter how much you try because it might be the situation where you're like oh it could be different situations one it could be just you're not gelling with the person and whatever you send is just not hitting the mark yeah and then you just part ways because like you're at this point you're just wasting your time and their time and their energy their time yeah and their money too so like okay I'm doing my best this is the ideas that I have they're clearly not hitting the mark they're not what you're asking for and no matter how much you're expressing it is just very difficult for me to get idea what do you what do you really want or maybe just my style is not fitting and the assumption was it's gonna you know mm-hmm so that that happens every now and then happens in pros - so that's good - yeah yeah it happens I mean it happened to you to happen to me it happened to a lot of people that I know that I thought that seemed to be like very perfect very perfect on the outside you know so it's very very yeah III I think it's very important to say that but sometimes you're just like is it even worth you know because you might be working with the client you you're thinking that that that's the thing that you want to do and all obviously depends on hey like if I need really need money like and you better [ __ ] try sure but if if you're taking a project not for monetary reasons but for the fact that this is a property that you really would want to work on and or maybe have expectations towards client that hey like maybe this is sort of like a connection I would want to make and then you just face the different reality where that are director director you know production designer whoever is just like the way they operate is just unacceptable unacceptable to your workflow people like that in this industry yeah then that's that's the best that's where that's where like you no matter how much you're gonna try and like force yourself to to be excited or push yourself to be as professional as possible yeah you're gonna hit the point where it's just like I just cannot do it anymore yeah yeah that happens that happens sometimes yeah there are certain names that you know in film and a name to name a same names AB name-dropping working nightmare people but a lot of these comes down to it's not even there for in my fault it's just a mixed communication or it's a mismatch you know yes yes I have a very when I engage with the client I make sure that they know immediately that I don't work normally like normal people I don't just like [ __ ] out of dunnock concepts every day like I actually think about it I don't go on Pinterest immediately I don't want an art station I mean I I think about it I listen to what they say and then I try to to problem-solve it I learned a lot of this you know this designer Saul Bass Saul Bass would say like I'm gonna begin to give you one solution and I'm gonna take it and that's a lot of confidence with that I think a lot of people look at that and go like well that's cocky and that's egotistical and a process to elimination and there's a way to exercise these things to find the right things and for certain things I do agree but for when you are trying to design a solution to a problem how often is it that there's multiple solutions to that one direct problem it's right a rare so having the confidence to kind of navigate that it's really the key you know so I know I'm divulging but I think the later on the further in your career you get the more that you've seen that the cycle there you go yeah okay like you work like this and I do like this and I've used so much of the skills that I've acquired over the time of working with others in my own directing and directing others like I feel like in my opinion I don't know if it's true you can may be asked by a team but I feel like I do my best to engage and extract the best out of them for the project you know so it's a right it's definitely an art so it takes hold it takes a lot of work but yeah yeah and sometimes it's like you said sometimes it's just mismatch because you know there's I mean we kind of we've been talking about it offline were when you think about quality of work and and what's becoming popular and what is and you know you look at the movies that are out there are games it's very rare that like a real masterpiece meaning like a film that has amazing cinematography story and and you know all of the things click and it also hits that popularity thing yeah where it just becomes you know popular because people are jiving with it it's very rare it's it's almost like a gem that that just happens every now and then there's a lot of great films that are made that just never get popular and I have like most of the films we know like the original Blade Runner was a flop yeah I want us it's yeah and it's considered to be one of the best sighs science fiction movies ever made see what people don't get it though and I could see why people would be can write use in and/or like annoyed by it I can see that too yeah yeah there's certain movies that just come out and you're questioning yourself like how is how is it even possible that this is becoming a hugely successful thing you know a lot of times has to do with the property that it is you like if it's something that people are very familiar with marble sorry but the people are very familiar with it's kind of funny like we're talking we were both working with Marshall yeah it's true yeah it's like sweet baby it's freaking [ __ ] it's not like it's everybody knows that it's terrific yeah and it's coming from a source so it's not like yeah yeah it's not like it's insulting it's not like they're trying to make you know Grapes of Wrath or Chinatown or something you know right yeah it's it's it's it's it's what Scorsese said it's an entertainment yeah a lot of times is it's it's a very good piece of entertainment versus it's not really like yeah there was a there was a massive difference between Kubrick and Michael Bay oh yeah it's it's pretty pretty apparent but yeah I was I was giving you this analogy of you know how general public basically works as a compressor like audio compressor you know what highly creative people try to convince or try to convey it's like absolute madness when it comes to like how much detail you want to add or how meticulously you're gonna change lighting or you know all of those things like the the podcasts we were talking about with Jonathan Ward and his obsession about cars and and things he does and like how how he's choosing parts to make sure that whatever he does is gonna be absolute perfection yeah universal obsessions yeah right it's very rare like III don't think I know that many people that have that kind of mentality outside of you there's maybe like a bunch of other artists that are thinking that way but it's very difficult to come by but yeah like the general audience basically works as a compressor so they did whatever we do on the highest level or whatever like the best artist in the world or the best musicians in the world would do on the absolutely highest level it's almost like compressed down 12 decibels yeah and every everything and everything in between is basically it's so close to two together that that yeah it's it's kind of the same I mean how many times you would ask someone who has no idea about artistic process whatsoever what's the good lighting like there's no education in that field and and they would say oh this painting looks it looks amazing and it's just something like really what and same goes to musics and good but you start to recognize it in sports you start to like even though yourself right like when I watch when I when I watch UFC for instance right I do understand what kind of you know techniques are being used I'm familiar what what's wrestling and how it works I've done jujitsu I understand you Jitsu you know I understand what multi is or you know clinching all of those things and you look at it I'm still dumbfounded like what like I don't know I don't know how to score it you know I have no idea I have a very rough idea but then you look at the very like once you start breaking down how how those athletes are preparing for fight is just mind-blowing like holy [ __ ] they're training so many different things all at once yeah because Society is allowed yeah specialization you know yeah we live we're lucky and it's cool because right now we're in this weird world crisis where the world stopping we're gonna start it's it's crazy to see how fragile this whole system is I think a lot of times we were like oh you know like we're the highest level really everything is amazing and then look like people are like eating toilet paper at the store dude I actually got I actually managed by two rolls you buy you buy toilet paper yeah I found I found some it's amazing that's one of the obsessions I don't get like what why didn't you I mean I understand you need toilet paper but it's not like they're gonna run out it's it's this thing where people get scared and then they run to to the stores like thinking like the world is basically collapsing and everything is closing no one's doing any production just some people it is in their mind you know right but meanwhile they will go to the bar and hang out with friends you know it's like well it's hard to say right because everybody yeah I mean different things yeah but no I meant about that is every there's specializations that occur society and we allow them so people are able like when I was younger UFC was on VHS you can only get a blockbuster and like these are people were just bare-knuckle fighters and they were really raw and watching it now it's not I think it's amazing what these guys do but it's almost not even entertaining to me as much as it used to be because of the it's not as wrong I mean it's raw but it's like it's just missing that like whole growing shots just head-butting and Mike you know that's that's fighting what's weird now is it's a perversion of fighting it's still fighting it's a sport basically absorbing yeah I'm just I'm not like I said I mean I trained with some of these people so who I used to so like I know them and I'm not saying anything against them and they can all whip my ass two times over I'm just saying that it's yeah it's it's it's that society is allowed for these weird oddities to occur you know so yeah yeah and a lot of times when you know I think I forget there's a quote about people that critique or like you can tell we're in a really high like we're very privileged Society when people are like getting it upset about video games it's like yeah video games you put [ __ ] yeah well I think it's really good for us to kind of be to kind of go okay hold on like oh there's a lot of noise out there and let me just ask myself what matters most and then anytime you're getting mad about something you should ask yourself like well what can I point to yourself and what can I do about fixing this you know so yeah and then finding the solution for whatever it is that's bothering you you know so which is true people get upset that there's not enough foam in their coffee you know like yeah the only aggro I don't blame them if they want foam you know but at the same time it said no come on man well I mean I know type of person that would get at that and any time I'm in a public place and somebody acts like that I usually stop and go like hey like like calm down you know it's just [ __ ] coffee yeah like okay I'm like shut the [ __ ] up for you know one of these days I may get a really awesome altercation over coffee just I mean sometimes I know it's wrong but I sometimes I feel like some people doesn't just like be put in their place but they're just being really really I was like hey stop that you know if I get why people are like anyways yeah and no one gets upset about a foam in the coffee these days they're like they're happy that the [ __ ] Starbucks is still open I mean yeah if you can get it in your country that's that's the thing because a lot of a lot of people just cannot get it anymore everything's closed only grocery stores you know yeah puts everything into perspective for sure and make sure it makes you realize things it's a good wake-up call because it's it's not yeah this is just like at any any point of time if like a pandemic like bird flu or something or like measles or any of those like really deadly diseases become as you know contagious as flu then we're all [ __ ] you know yeah like I really hope that this is gonna I mean from from the way the things are developing it looks like you know like I'm reading news I mean I don't know if I can trust news from China at this point but they're say they have no no new cases it's like okay but like South Korea it slowly it seems like the from from what I read they're slowly like getting back to normal like they're thinking about opening I think it's gonna be no audience basketball games but but still having having games happening again so it feels like there's like that they're through the major hump or like they flatten the curve as everyone's saying enough to start thinking about normality but a non normality of what it was before but normality of like let's just not you know be in this crazy position we're in so eventually every country is gonna get there obviously it's the stress on the medical system that's really yeah yeah that's really what it is and most of this panic is just making it worse really does and I'm not talking about officials saying like this is what we all need to do I'm saying people [ __ ] rushing stores and buying [ __ ] out you know they're gonna stop that yeah well the stores the stores seem to be curbing that stuff like they they are doing like police hours so yeah like oh you can only buy two rolls or two you know bags or something and between like this time and that time no one's allowed in but scene likes eldery in seniors yeah it's good that's really good thing my father-in-law he's he does that that's great I that stuff makes me really happy I heard a really great story i'ma share this because it made me really really [ __ ] happy I love this stuff it makes it oh there's also like nature's taking over back again which is great like people are seeing like dolphins and stuff like you can see fish in the canals and like Venice and stuff like stuff you couldn't because it's tourists everywhere all the time yeah but there's there's a story there's ninety or woman in my neighborhood my neighborhood but kind of close by called the cops and she was like I think there's somebody outside there I go we'll come over and check it out and then they came over and they they went talked with her and they're like is there anybody here and she's like no and like we didn't see anybody he's like are you by yourself she said yeah and she was like I was supposed to get my retirement money so I could get groceries and then the firefighters they all teamed up they will went to the grocery store they grew the [ __ ] I love these guys fire fire fires yeah real heroes well I don't know all of them but these particular people are [ __ ] awesome and so they yeah on their own dime on their own time they went to the grocery store they bought her a slew of just a bunch of stuff when they're at the grocery store the the manager came up is like what do you guys do and what you buying all this stuff for they tell the grocery store guy the grocery store guy and the guy runs Albertsons he says no you guys aren't paying for any of this stuff Albertsons will pay for this [ __ ] how cool is that dude it's really cool it's really encouraging so cool dude so I think that there's a lot of shitty people but there may be 5% I think that when I've been out people were for the most part kind of I could see it in their eyes are like oh [ __ ] but for the most part there there's like bold old guy I mean you know I just people are kind of they're just you know they're kind of panicking in their head yeah but I think for the most part like because there was a lady that was kind of going irate at the grocery store the other day when we were there and I I was at the aisle and I was sympathizing with the people that work in there I said I'm sorry you guys had to deal with this and you guys are troopers for for handling this and then she was saying oh you know it's it's only a couple people you know everybody else has been really great so I was like that's good to hear and encouraging you know the stories like that you know those are ones that stick in my heart and I'm I think and I believe in and I really I hope are gonna continue and I I really think that they well there's a Shivaree chivalry in this country there's simply the I'm worldwide it's a lot of people that I think care about one another and I think there's a lot of great people out there doing great things still so I mean you know if we didn't and if we didn't believe in that then yeah but we're gonna see how it's gonna go in the next couple weeks because I know San Francisco's on like a month ly month shut down which is I didn't even that's crazy like people of low income shutting them out for that much time it's stuff man it's going to be 12 times I had for sure yeah I don't like it really like this is this is the time we're like we really don't know what's gonna happen like the economy obviously is gonna I mean it's already suffering you can tell that the workers that cannot go go to work they are like oh my god what we gonna do I think there are certain countries I know u.s. is thinking about sending checks to Americans and there's certain income level just as a relief yeah I'm pretty sure like there's there is going to be certain countries that gonna do that what's going to stimulate the economy too you know if ya methodically it's a kind of a good strategy because if you give this money but I have to and then three stimulates and then and then boom you know so I'm not an economist in any sense and I think everything that we say here were idiot artists we have no sense of how the world works we're just kind of yes exactly armchair yeah deck Shepherdstown but right you know I think a lot of it is I think so so I did the AMA on Instagram today and there was a lot of questions that came through about like how are you dealing with the mental health and how are you keeping positive and I had some friends reaching out like how are you how are you doing and I mean I've grew up in the ghetto I've went through some really hard time so like know this stuff really fazes me somebody what we are youtube potatoes for like three weeks okay put soy sauce and potato okay now put it all on the potato okay now put pepper on them okay there we go you know usually flashback to polish times they'll forget love potatoes so yeah it's for me it doesn't really matter and it's not a big deal I feel more or less bad for people that are kind of dealing with this social oddities of it of it all you know but so I think for me if I were to give any advice I would say it's best to just kind of stay positive I wouldn't if the news is triggering your anxiety like legitimately stay away from it there's nobody who's triggering you with yours I don't like get them out of your life like avoid them if at all cost you can you know like they're just not worth it to have near you cuz they're just gonna cause you more havoc and if that's a family member you can't avoid them like tell them like hey piss off you know like leave me alone yeah because they can it can get really bad really quickly you know so I was reading news dude it was like I had like a day where I was just like really freaking out a little bit freaking out a little bit you know cause like I've read something it was like what the [ __ ] going on and then you know went on the bench and but then there was there was like this one piece of news that said that this this coronavirus is more contagious than Ebola and I was like yeah it is obviously what the [ __ ] right but then you click the link as like paid 10 bucks for monthly subscriptions like oh you Fox yeah I do people click Bates people like yeah they're just monetizing on that's on that share it's just so much misinformation there to literally just go on like just go on your local health he'll have yeah see it's CDC or if you're like let's see if you live in Los Angeles I think it's Los Angeles Public Health Department or something they give like updated information information on what's going on or goats like University websites they they have researchers working on that stuff and give more information all the time you know that's where you actually get in information what's going on cuz people are still parroting [ __ ] that it's like been okay someone came up with this but no one really checked there's no real you know evidence to it you can win it out you can uh now cameras where I have two cameras for this we just went black I just don't know it's so good like but what I was thinking on the on the side note to all of this is this is actually for a lot of people like the really good opportunity to you know start learning style or squared yeah it's a big long lines birthday yeah I've been dude the moment I heard this I was like oh time to learn yeah exactly cuz cuz you know I mean we're we're fortunate enough to work in the business where the this business kind of thinks about not what's now but what's gonna be a year from now yeah so like if you work for film or video game like they're not gonna I mean they're gonna obviously be disrupted by this thing if you work on side as a non creative position that's that's a completely different thing obviously it's very difficult to measure that stuff but if you if you are like us artists or musicians or whatever working the industry and you know this is like the great time to learn new things because hey you might have less work because of the whole thing that's going on but also this is the you know I the the folks that I work with in the art department they if they you know I asked them about you know if they're worried about hey like with this coronavirus like if it goes south not south to like destruction whatever but like you know it comes out to mean like shitty economy for a long time they are you concerned it's like yes and no because like in 2008 when there was this giant economic downturn the film industry wasn't really shaken like the moments were film industry front for instance was like really bad was when there was like a writer's strike mm-hmm or like the rector strike or something like that where like literally you can't work because we don't grip it yeah because there is a strike there is that's really we can't work and I was like okay but but you know like there's less money and well that but yeah but think about you know if you're working in the film that means that's going to be released two years from now so they're not gonna stop production now that guys keep going as far as they can yeah to make sure that two years from now they have a product yeah because they're gonna be losing money now from theatres and whatnot but they don't want to lose money in the future I want to keep going so think into it about a movies that were supposed to like they spent years developing they're supposed to drop right now yeah that's that's bad I feel bad for that's where it's but they can always postpone right or drop it like that's where maybe things like that I mean the food's gonna be killing it other lesser loving I think Netflix actually conspiracy theory number one Bing and a virus their biggest hit home Netflix and Disney Plus Amazon Prime Amazon conspired to make the Corona I think this this is like where where it's all gonna well not all but the shift towards you know online is definitely going to be visible from from this point on but also you know I've been for past episodes I've been having this sort of like ongoing ongoing topic of social media and you know online creators where you're not necessarily working for the big man you're working for yourself this man did a little man this seems to be a time and obviously when you have an economical downturn it's really difficult to monetize on you know entertainment but then I then again like in situation like that where people are stranded at home like they want to be entertained I want to be entertained [ __ ] I worked I started watching Disney Plus because like hey I want to watch what stuff you know yeah I'm gonna mermaid what else Little Mermaid but it's like this is an opportunity and well no not an opportunity but but a good excuse to you like if you ever wanted to like hey I want to start learning something well now is your chance right cuz now you don't have an excuse that to go out with friends or because you just cannot literally cannot you know and so maybe maybe that's like the the push you might get from this where you know let me try mm-hmm awesome time to learn man yeah it's it's really good and you know you mentioned learn squared and we were like laughing there's one thing we're gonna be doing maybe by the time this podcast comes out we're actually gonna make each each class we have first lesson basically free as soon as you sign up nice so you're just gonna watch it processing that back when I was with it yeah we was like we didn't have options to do it back then because it was just like all we have to hard code oh [ __ ] so much but we do have functional trial or like you can watch some videos without you know signing up so we cannot do that there is a news that came out recently that adobe is maybe two months two months free on the creative sued for learning institutions right so if you're if you're like if you're in art school and whatnot that's maybe a good opportunity to reach out to your Dean or someone say like hey I saw those news you guys should really get on it that's like free stuff for for the students I don't know if it works for online schools that's something we're exploring as well with learned squared you know everyone is slashing prices that's probably what are we gonna do as well just to just like you know what like we we do have common we do have workers we do have employees you know there are part-time employees but we're paying money for people to get by so we cannot just make everything for free but we'll definitely slash prices to make them make money you know caring for the peeps yeah it's also great it's a good time to learn really yeah it's always a good time to learn but like when you have time like if you're normal 9:00 to 5:00 and you have time right now like now like people were asking me on Instagram like are you bored I'm like what do you mean bored is it crazy like this is the time when you shred this when I was listening to that podcast with John Ward I was I loved his approach he's he was saying like because Joe is like you know not everybody can afford to have the time to do this he's like not really like you have nights and weekends and so true even if you have a nine-to-five job I mean even and when I was working multiple jobs into uh stuff you do have time you just have to make time for it it's when you make the time for it but anyways right now in my opinion is a great time because if you are a nine-to-five person any of you're forced to stay home and if you're not making a living why not acquire a new skill so I'm actually going backwards I just went through swings art class I'm still going through it like I've got a ton of jamás classes because I really love like his approach is super rad all his gum roads um what other learned Square there's another landscape class I got to and I was and I've been a bunch of random artists it's been so cool I find these artists on Instagram you know I sent him a note say I love your work thank you for doing that and then I find that they have a gum road i watch it and i learned and i inquire and i put it in my school my skill set and filling it up and it's really cool yeah there's a ton of gum roots out there as well Java has has good good set of like really good learning material his gum rose mega man could make Lord he's a camera [ __ ] lord Cameron Ziggler is what to do yes or what dama impersonation daddy loves you horrible Java impressions yeah it's definitely great time to learn oh is because there's a lot of time yeah always a good time I agree with you hundred percent you can always find time to do things I mean sometimes it can be extremely challenging if you work nine to five and you have two kids and you have to do you know all the chores and maybe have like two jobs did you have to attend to it's really difficult it's really difficult but you know what I had um it was just one job I go it's like a full circle I was talking about this before but I had a listener of the podcast who was Janet I think he was he was a janitor and and he was listening to a podcast and he tuned in on that moment while I was talking when I was January it was like you know my life is shitty riddle literally and that's great with this [ __ ] yeah and just learning and making art it was something that for me was like I have to do it because otherwise I just gonna be stuck with this you know paradigm yet I'm in so I always you know I would be you know I'll be studying I'll be working after stuff and so studies mean like I would wake up 6:00 a.m. and get back home like 6 p.m. and then go straight like just eat and go straight to work for like almost a year yeah and then get back home like at nine maybe ten yeah I was there was really difficult times to get anything to get done but but I'll get it home and like people be like hey like let's go for a beer I was like no I'm [ __ ] learning this [ __ ] you know and I would learn to like 2:00 a.m. and get like super groggy waking up and running to school I was like yawn whatever like 18 17 you know yeah what is that though because we both have that thing I wonder what it is is escaping poverty what is it because it's a rare quits it's a rare trait not everybody has you can't learn it and it's something you have to acquire I know people that don't have it commonly are people that were given things to them too easily because they don't have that like push your camera went black again but nowhere I don't know what it is about that trait cuz all the people that I know that are significant to the industry that they work in they have that a they have a curiosity B they have the drive to motivate to like fulfill their curiosity and then then then C they take the responsibility of like actually learning and not stopping because both you and I like it's cool I appreciate it because right now you're doing the Showtime I'm actually working on the master file right now no no no keep working on it I just say yeah it's like a [ __ ] so I'm helping Mitch a very little no you're saying that just chiseling that a little baby I'm proud but it's cool to see you cuz you're like I'm gonna go make a short film and I was like [ __ ] yet finally you're gonna do it and I'm excited for you to go through the hell it's legit I was literally almost every other day I would send you think I lost your camera now I do every other day I would send you yes yeah there is every other day I would send you like a screenshot of crashed software yeah and it's cool it must be something with my computer man like I don't think I don't think it's Adobe like Premiere and After Effects ah After Effects can be very very buggy memes memes are there for a reason but yeah Premiere I think there's something there's something with this setup that I have I literally oh I was like an inch away from like you know I'm gonna get the iMac Pro just to [ __ ] edit this thing yeah it was really close to that but um you know I'll survive it yeah it's just annoying you know where your project is tough so yeah let's go back to the main thing because I I think it has to I think both you and me cuz we come from like real poverty you know like real real real poverty like fucked-up poverty not India that were like third world country poverty I'm not talking about that kind of poverty but like Western really bad lowest income you can imagine mom / single parent working two jobs poverty you know so really difficult and it's yeah you kind of like you realize that this is the life you're in but you have an obsession about something I think I think your drive to do what you do came from the obsession for that one thing you had which is like doing a design and being an artist and being in the design designer like you you wanted to do that you wanted to do something that is creative like what are you what are you realize that design is something you want to do from the start or not that didn't matter that matter that you want to do something creative and that was just driving you nuts if you were in doing that right mmm could you agree on that at all yeah I guess I get like a really shitty person if I don't get to do this right I guess like it all I can seem like shitty alright not a good person to be around if I'm not able to do things that I should be doing so and a lot of people that are really driven or like that especially they come from like shitty place you know or like shitty life or some or some tragedy that they have to go through and don't get me wrong like I had some my fair amount of time where I was just like I really don't want to do that [ __ ] anymore or like I would be just like I just don't enough you know I can just cruise and I had weeks and months like that I you know looking back at those I feel like that's just a giant waste of time but maybe at that point of time everything else yeah everything else that might be going on you just need it right in here you go through that's really to lessen degree I would say you need it you need those wraps yeah I never sent you everyone these breaks yeah but I feel I feel it has to do with the obsession about doing something I think as long as as soon as you get if you find something you're a completely obsessed about it you cannot stop it was this question that happens a lot of times like like what do you sacrifice like how do you deal with sacrificing you know your life towards this you know difficult thing you're doing it's like you're not really sacrificing anything you're like putting yourself into a pain because you love doing that as well said that's true that's really no so as much as I would want to say like hey just work your ass off and and work really hard and that's gonna make it it's just like no there's gonna be a breaking point there's always a breaking point for someone like everyone has a different threshold that they can they can withstand now the difference is you can learn too you can learn to find boundaries and cross them it's very difficult but but but it it's almost like comparing it to strength training right if you if you just give up because you cannot lift the weight that you set up yourself as a goal right yeah then you're just you're just gonna give up and nothing's gonna happen you know you're not gonna get stronger but there's also reality that hey like as much as I would want to lift like [ __ ] thousand pounds that's just never gonna happen because I'm not built for that mm-hmm at all so but but there's this large distance from giving up at the start and then lifting or not being able to lift thousand pounds there's the the the in-between is so vast that you can always find a place in it you know yeah I think it's really important to just I mean I don't know I don't like to give it it's it's a bummer because I like to give advice but I don't because my advice might not be right for everybody so I'd say take it with a grain of salt but yeah any of these things that you think you should just find the thing that you really love and if you can't find it this means that you have a misalignment with yourself right the way that I can say that I know that when I love something is when I'm sitting there like I could do it like a drug almost like where the Sun comes up and I don't even get [ __ ] I'm still doing it yeah that's how I know I'm in perfect alignment but the tricky thing is is that not everything that's great for you is the alignment it's there's a lot of things where I mean honestly I'm sitting here why hours of tutorials I'm every night before I go to bed I sit there with my phone on my chest and I'm watching JAMA paint or something that I'm just putting in my psyche constantly thinking about it because I want to be good at painting again but I want it like get fast you know I want to go from not knowing I paint and then go to paint I mean I've always painted but I want to get back to it really quickly right very work purposes but just in general but so anyways I'm obsessing about it but it doesn't faze me really it's not something I'm like oh but then there's times where I'm like [ __ ] like I can't pay attention sometimes I'll watch the tutorials and I'm painting and I'll fall asleep in my chair like I should keep going you know and right so the thing is what I'm saying is that not everything is in sync it's when you're actually doing the thing that's when you're you can tell like oh [ __ ] like I've been drawing for 10 hours straight and I don't care and you're just doing it for yourself yeah I think you're just happy and you're in your and you're enjoying the time of creation you know so many times I don't know about you I'm pretty sure you do the same thing but I've been a lot more nowadays than ever is asking myself why do the things that I do like how do i why do I make this why do I share this why do I make this art why do I do this and it was kind of cool because I was listening to that Bobby Lee podcast and he was talking about his whole like discovering himself kind of when his dad passed and it was really eye-opening because I think we all kind of go through these stages in life when you're a young child the world tells you who you are and you kind of have this facsimile of who you are and then you break these different layers so like some people their dependence of like life is based on like the acceptance of their parents or something you know when their parents passed then their purpose is gone so it had to reset and find themselves very dangerous stage because they're not who they thought they were and everything is shallow because they don't have their destination it's like the person that's set out to go climb this mountain their whole life they climb it too early and then they're like well [ __ ] you know I might as well kill myself because there's nothing that helps there's no more mountains you know you have to reset yourself so every step of your life changing your destiny and stuff and so for me I've been constantly like well why do I do that why do I share that why do I make this and sometimes I don't have the answers and sometimes life isn't you're not supposed to have all the answers to your life but you should at least ask yourself like so like when I post something I go like why am i sharing this and I go no I think this is cool photograph I think this is cool I like this drawing I like this car and I try to make sure that i only share things that I feel like are worthy of me feeling comfortable sharing you know yeah rather than for the it's easy to go like oh I'm gonna do this for like likes and followers I don't know if I've ever done that I think now that you and I are tied for numbers I think it's more of a joke so we're like now it's like a funny joke yeah so it's gonna be competitive now because it's funny because you're whooping my ass for a year or so but it's more of a joke because it's it's none of it really matters either so yeah it doesn't matter it's like we're a little matter either you know I don't think they do I look yeah ya know a to your point you know there's there's there's moments where you're trying to do something and discover I think like getting a recognition between discovering if this if something is right for you versus discovering is if that the pain you're kind of going through is a part of that discovery or is it a part of the labor that you need to pull put into something that you know the fruits of of it going to be really good for you you know yeah yeah because you know how do you tell how can you tell I think you have to look at the end goal and and be a realist like fine if you can be real realistic about it you know I think it's just like it's such a multi multi-layered question to answer because it has to deal with your work ethic it has to deal with your personality your ego the way you learn how fast you learn do you like learning new things do you learn things that you know are going to be essential for the project but not necessarily things that are going to be fun for you and can you deal with the fact that it's not going to be fun but you're gonna have a lot of fun finishing the project that you really wanted to do you know things like that and that's why we always talk about design designing processes of learning based on projects yeah yeah process project-based learning is usually the best cuz it's applicable yeah yeah but that's difficult if you're starting out but even for me for example I would painting starting with the Anthony's got burns and we were talking and he was telling me as couples really awesome short stories and I was like hey how about I do a painting and then you make a short story around it and then we just do that it's fun and it was cool I started sketching out an idea I got slammed with client work and I'm still working on Star Wars so I had to put it on pause my many projects I'm constantly going but it was cool it's I was kind of trying to find a base you know and I was talking about Francois today Francois has been killing it was painting friendly robot everybody probably knows him but he was sending me a really beautiful painting today and he's always asking me for my thoughts on things and I was like well as a painting it's really beautiful I don't know to say but as a process it's like well what's what are you trying to say now you thought you're getting closer to mastering your skill now it's like now what what are you saying because so much of the time I think most of us myself included we're trying to find okay well brush did you use what button did you hit because there is a formula to a lot of these things you know I was watching John parks tutorial as he was breaking down down Simon Stalin hags work and it was interesting because I was sitting there watching him break down Simon's work and I was thinking well who did Simon break down and then I was thinking I started in my brain I'm always doing like lowest common denominator like okay where does this go like where does this all and you know and I started thinking like this is kind of weird like John's breaking down his and then I'm like watching him break down this thing and I'm like well he somebody here had to be original with it and then I was talking with Francois about Simon's work and I really appreciate Simon's work but that PIFAN II I had today was that with Simon's work what makes it so special is that they're just little short stories and he just throws you right in the middle of them I don't know if they're short stories but I don't know what they are I'm just saying as an observer there's like a vignette almost like a moment in time yeah and he's owned that space like really well like if you if I were to do an environment painting with any kind of sci-fi like real world with that like people would go oh you're just ripping off Simon about all [ __ ] you know yeah he owns a space now and that's awesome like he's claimed it but his flag in this hand for that thing it's cool but I forget was getting that when I was watching John but what I think I was getting that is it's awesome to study these things but most importantly it's it's actually even more important to sit there and fail and learn all these things yourself and they discover your style you know because most likely you're gonna do it nobody's gonna like it but for a long time a couple people for a long time yeah yeah because even with you and both of us to like even let's say the Showtime stuff that you've been doing like if you look at your original sketch and then to the anime you're basically making an anime that's crazy you show you're showing this some of this stuff right so people know yeah a little bit a little bit bits and pieces and just a pretty narrow it is but nobody crazy none of the most recent most polished you know it was polished most polished yeah it's really it's pretty quite something and it's cool because like you're kind of going all the way into this deep end of merging your love of 3d and CGI and all these things so what I'm getting at is you're kind of melding a style yeah and you're using the past and the and the and the present and you're finding your weaknesses because both of us I think can draw but we are very shitty at certain parts of drawing and we never said to learn those things like we don't know Anatomy super well I don't think right yeah no but the cool thing is is that we don't necessarily have to because we're in a state of art where you can use things to fake it basically and nobody would know or care I was watching Craig Mullins he had a class that I was watching - I'm watching all the classes basically people ask me like how do you learn stuff I go who's the best at about this thing and I will learn it from them I just take all the information yeah there's no [ __ ] reason to be bored right now there's no reason to be bored ever because you simply could be learning everything about anything especially like actual things I like the thing is I don't try to learn things from people that are idiots and the way I say that is like you could tell somebody's it may be if you look at their art that's what's cool about art is you can go oh [ __ ] like you know you're talking about an ego oh [ __ ] you're an idiot you don't know what you're talking about because your hard [ __ ] you know like yeah but but that's what I love about art because it's so honest and so real without even trying to because people can see really quickly but what Greg was saying is greg was critiquing these these thumbnail sketches that the costume designer for Star Wars did it was really quite a brilliant thing that he brought up is that at the time there was no such thing as like a legit costume artist necessarily like a concept artist for costumes like you got to think like back in late 70s or early 80s like these jobs that we fulfill most the time didn't even exist there was no star didn't exist then at all it was raiders worthless traitors yeah very rare and Ralph McQuarrie was one of these like anomalies that could kind of bend time and space and like create pull from the ether and also like extract things from the past and to present yeah but anyways he was critiquing the saying like look at these drawings like I love these drawings and I agree when he was saying I love them too because they're as a drawing they're like really awesome because they're original authentic but if you were to take those drawings and submit them now to like a Marvel client I imagine you'd get fired or you'd be like what the hell so it just shows the the change in advancement that's happened and the demand too because you have guys in the marketplace like yourself and Vitaly and stuff like that who are killing it and they're really you guys are dedicating yourself to your craft and not when we see a piece from you it's not that you just made it in a day it's that you made it through your whole life if exchange is everybody enough you know our story I knew of machay because I had um when I was commuting to to prologue I bought these books every time on the train I would sit there and read these books well cool these art books and it was a concept art masters or some iPad digital art masters yeah and there was a painting that you had done on the cover and I was a this is cool I don't know I say his name is so cool and I still have the book to it but it's cool like all the way from then and until now you know like and I'm proud of you because you're going and you're not only just staying stagnant doing the paintings that you have been doing in your master because it's funny now because yeah I'm asking you for critiques on some of my paintings you're like yeah yeah yeah it's because you're you've done it for so long ago just get away from me I don't like I'll do that stuff much and that's another thing it's so funny I like its small world how that works but every now and then I give you a good critique and and unlike wise is just exactly like you did with the show time you know I've sent you my editors like hey check this out I was like yeah that's that's proper critique though my critique it was like were working in fire age it was great hey you would know it was I wouldn't you would know if I didn't like it if I wouldn't implement any of it you know yeah that's why I knew and when she started doing I was like okay cool like it actually works though I was like getting that was not a tangent there [ __ ] yeah roll is talking about like how are is ever evolving its ever-growing so as you're growing through it so we're all competing against one another in a great way I mean let me go back to a an anchor point that I think I found you were talking about you know like obsessions you know like hey what what brush do I use or what what this and what that and like how the question how betwee between me and you like or just any anyone we know how they approach learning because we were talking about it's a great time to learn you know in general and you know and I think that the ongoing ongoing mind was that you know the best way to learn is project-based yeah and we're talking about you know the fact that you cannot learn to is that not you and you're not necessarily a big fan of but you can I need them to to make the job done and that's you know when you do a project and you brushed your brush on the on the surface of that when you raised it I use the brush did you use though when you when you do a project and and you want to do it on the level that you know it's gonna be excited for you exciting for you because that's what I mean that's one of the reasons you're doing it because you're excited about it you you kind of want to you don't want to make compromises you want to make compromises in certain places but you then you want to not make compromises and use your best abilities and best tools you can get to make sure that you're gonna get the best quality out of it right so but you also have to find like okay this is it a right trash hold am I going too far am i like cornering myself into like much larger project than this just to solve a small problem in that project so for instance you mentioned anatomic right I'm not understand Anna Tommy well enough to know which muscles are mostly an anatomy anatomy that's the way say tell me anatomy and there you go Anna Tommy Anna Tommy you learn anatomy and like if you don't know anything about a neck if you know a little bit but if you want to draw it like that's that's a giant project to take on you know and so like if I want to draw a character that is prop properly anatomy Klee [ __ ] atomically and that's how quickly drawn and and do it from like drawing perspective and I need to and I need to learn anatomy that's a giant project by itself that's like okay I'm I have to abandon this - yeah Corona I have to abandon this to do that dude are you sweating the black one pop sorry I mean why drink water and it went in the wrong pipe yeah yeah we get it you get it I'm sorry but so so you realize okay that's too much you know so is there any other tool that I can use that will solve that problem maybe I'm not on the best possible level but I'm acceptable so I can get the major idea you know that the major I get the idea comes across so that's that's how I learned to so for instance I was talking about learning Houdini and learning you know After Effects and learning I've learned so many software just just this project holy [ __ ] Houdini yeah After Effects premiere the vegie result the venture resolved there's and and and the list goes on and on it has it never ends and it was always this this moment was like okay I I want to do this but I don't know I could do it by hand but it's just gonna be a nightmare but there's a software that does it better and so I would just bench tutorials specifically that one thing that I wanted to do and that would just almost like a like a seed that starts to sprout and you get like okay alright I I do this there's another sort of like a branch that comes out of it that I need to learn in order to make it even better but there's other branches that I don't have to really look at because they are not necessarily what I need specifically for that project so and then you learn those things and just me just you make the project happen it just makes it easier to to digest I agree would you like imagine if you were like okay you want to learn anatomy and then all you have like all you're allowed to do is figure drawing of someone right you were just like [ __ ] I'm not gonna do that yeah you know well I think also it's not necessary for us in our work it's right to do that like it doesn't hurt but all the you'll get you there but it's gonna be nightmare for you it's like [ __ ] our you want to do that yeah it's a it's it's also I think it's as much as I love that it's a skill and it's just it's a talent and it's a totally amazing thing when I see artists that are really exceptional and knowing how body works as a mechanism its knowledge knowledge it's never bad it's good to have more knowledge so when I see it I don't look at it like oh it's in this it's unusable and doesn't matter I don't look at it like that I think it's amazing but it's all about the quest you know what is your quest and that's why I was saying back to earlier like ask yourself constantly why am I doing this sometimes I'll hit a road like you are hitting and I'll go I don't want to do this and I'll just ask a friend who's better than I am and I'll say hey you want to help on this and they go yeah and I say here you go and I can go back to focusing on what I work on best and that's actually the director does from what I learned is that basically director is kind of managing expectations and the energy of things you know so but you're going full solo mode and I was like hey dude I think somewhat like activity is gonna help you you know you can actually be a detriment to your projects if you go too insular with them you know so it's a little bit of an insane project I'll be honest with you like saying I can't believe that you're you man are that it's pretty crazy it's a legit accomplishment like visually like I'm excited for your fans to see it because it is like really impressive what you've managed to thank you create it's awesome like it gets me excited and like every time I see it I'm just like well I'm so close to you and I'm like well let's tweak that or try to do that so I can only imagine though like for people that are big fans of what you're doing like it's legitimately gonna shake people because then I go like this is crazy like you made this basically by yourself this is nuts like so cool and it's also like it'll be a nice flag for you to put in this hand and the moment you're done with it you're gonna go okay well I get a questions like hey uh what are you gonna do with this you know what I'm gonna do with this project are you gonna sell it or pitches like I don't think that's for me yeah you know I I think what's gonna happen is gonna be exactly what you did it's like oh what's what's the next thing because I already have like ideas for what's the next thing you know what do you say you know I need to finish this [ __ ] first I already hate it I told you to it's been cool because like I mean for a long time you've been giving me [ __ ] and you've been coaching me so it's nice to return it to you like I should have you knew like watch this in May yes that's nice to sit in the captain's seat everyone smell like fart on you a little bit you know but no it's it's these projects are really cool and I think it's project-based learning and like you said you never knew that you would have to go and learn Houdini to learn VV Sims and then they'll build a shader because I think a lot of it came from you curiously kind of playing with cell shaders in v-ray right is that kind of yeah so it all started well it all started with I kind of remember I was watching this a video clip that got me inspired it was a leaf and I think it was one of the early phone because that girl has like some really interesting video clips like the music videos I was like oh that's kind of cool like what if I can you know I like that idea but what if I can make make something that is you know is adjacent but it's mine you know because we get inspired by different things like I got inspired by a song and awesome well I'd buy the visuals that were in the song so I made yeah ice I made it I made a bunch of characters and I was like I love mangas like let's just let's just make them look like manga you know and that and that became like its own thing for me because like a I found something that I don't just don't do every day which is drawing black and white characters in this very specific style that I've never used for work yeah that's another forgot about that yeah cuz same as me cuz I was doing UI design and then I was drawing lost boy yeah I can be more obvious so the same thing for you I didn't realize that yeah so I did that and then like I started going more and more in details and like trying to figure out my own style with it so it does it look like something that's recognizable or does it look like something that's it's mine and it's like it is sort of like touching you know when you look at the black and draw a black and white drawings I mean obviously it's it's a style that already exists but I also like touching upon some certain big names like my biggest inspiration obviously Tomoe for a lot of a lot of that work a lot but I always tried to make you know to my best my best abilities making my own as I said I think we were doing one of the twitch streams where I just like I always started drawing another sort of scene I was like what if I could make it look like it's an animate you know other bike the bike yeah the broken bike yeah and so I drew that and then one day I was like what if I could because I you know I would be used as 3d for posing characters sometimes you know not all the time but sometimes and I will do a couple of paintings where there would be basically - 3d and it's like Oh what if I can just do a jacket in Marvelous Designer so I don't have to draw it all the time so do that and what if I do the pants with the with the pattern so like I can just literally pose the character and and have that ready to go and just over pain and make it make it my own so like there was always like a small addition what if what if what if and it was just evolving all the time and then once I did that painting it was like what if I okay I did the did it did as a painting I did have characters that were built into a 3d but I over painted them I I didn't do a shader and so like okay what if I could do a shader that looks like a manga shader right so I did those like a couple of studies like that posted on Instagram what if I could do a cell shader because I seem like a lot of SATA cel-shaded stuff you know yeah and it looks fine but it looks very artificial right and don't I'm yeah what I do like what I did with the magnet like the anime shader with v-ray is it's it's nothing groundbreaking it's just like how I wrangled the nodes together and which node goes where basically right it's the tools are there so it's not like I'm coding anything but I would go in very specifics like very specifics of what each node are supposed to do and how can I achieve this very specific result and how I can jump the hoops where it looks nice from why Aang but the moment I change the camera or the lighting a little bit it looks like [ __ ] you know so those are those are like the things you kind of learn over time and then and it was like I don't know like what if I just make it move I was like what if I just wanna make yeah what if I make what if I make you know the X length of a video and then I cut like a repo Matic and send it to you and like you're [ __ ] nuts cut it by like make it like 1/5 because your lives like five minutes or something you're crazy crazy man yeah because every that's how it happened but basically that's how it happened all over took Mike and I a whole year to do and that was a minute so it's like that's crazy dude so every minute takes about a year usually if you're really dedicating to it yeah because you've been working on it for a year and a half less than a year eseni a year yeah at the moment I started like I'm doing it too III I took a long break too from it as well just just like as you take for work you know I had to take a break just to get my mind of it off it as well because I think you know when you this is the one thing that I've never done like a long project and I think that's that's such a relatable thing maybe not necessarily for doing long projects but like if you're let's say if you're and going back to like this is a perfect time to learn and maybe that's an advice that kind of work would work for for a lot of the guys or girls and everyone who is listening sometimes we want to start something and you don't know where to start and you get overwhelmed by the idea that there's already a lot of artists that are doing this or maybe like all I need to learn this and this and this and this and this and this and this I get that too that's like it is fatigue and you were just like where do I even start and I think the the best way I found for myself when I want to learn something that is really difficult is to try to find people I can ask for for advice not necessarily like hey can you can you Google for me because I'm too lazy you know but like literally just an advice like what are the steps you know because you can find that information even if you cannot find a person that will answer to you you can you can go on google bench and start getting in information they were like okay if you want to make a film watch documentaries how the films are made are made like real family films and you will understand more or less what the process is okay usually they start with script or an idea they maybe have some concept art they do storyboards and then they do you know they break it down usually in previous right they will do a previous of how the movies gonna flow what the scenes are going to be I will say they're gonna be cut started I mean - but any but let's say even when you another thing that I've noticed when when I actually go through the process when you really legitimately go through the process even as we're making Star Wars right now it's like they had a system in which they did it but there's other new systems to do right so the cool thing is you can go like oh [ __ ] like they did at this but they didn't have this technology you know they didn't have like yes this way mode of actually communicating and doing this so it's what's cool is like I like to learn by watching the past but it's all about thinking - like what is for the future you know I think the more you can think about like how these things are gonna improve yourself and the future the better you know like because it's just gonna make you're gonna take what you learn and then take it to the next stage it what you learn should never be like this is it you know like yeah like I'm learning painting and Composition like just so funny people are there's a rule to composition to it it's like [ __ ] shut the [ __ ] up there's no rules that's the thing that's it's funny you could like break all the rules like and if you don't think so watch mr. robot the show and like look at how they shot that because it's like all over the place compositionally and it's awesome because it fits and it's works and it's totally cool and it doesn't mean because it doesn't isn't film like Roger Deakins I praise Roger Deakins but it's because it is and it's there's different ways to it so I didn't write it right but I'm saying like it's cool because when you actually learn and you actually go through the process you can actually fuse in your cross pollenization cuz you're like oh [ __ ] like the know that I've been doing this for this whole time so they have a whole I have a workaround I could do this faster you know so yeah this is a very valid point I didn't think about that I mean obviously we cannot comment the some of those things come naturally through the experience and but but that's true like you watch something okay it was done that way is there a but but here's the thing like it might spark question okay can I do it in a different way right and it makes you curious it makes you explore and I think that's that's like one of the one of the traits that or one of those things that if you're curious about something you it will be much easier to find answers and and just not being lazy about it you know like not thinking that someone's gonna do it for you yeah that's that's like the one of the most important things that comes with it is just like if you want to do something for yourself if you can find someone who will help you to do it with you that's that's awesome what is very rare it's very rare you're gonna find a person that's gonna dedicate their time and effort towards something that is only benefiting you specifically right because we all have lives like everyone has their own life their own goals you know but these about the king of that though with all these passion projects you know so and that's really part navigating everybody else's interests and stuff too right because I know the other day I'm benefiting from this but I also try to make it as clear and open as possible with all my collaborators like you can you can benefit as much as you want from this it's up to you how much do you want to carry you can carry all this way if you want I don't want it but then you gotta take that you know the responsibility and it's got to be better than what I'll make if it isn't then get out of my way right you know so because I'm very demanding on that way a lot of the honest about it too you have to be because are is honest that's the cool thing about it is like you could look at something and not know a thing about it with art then you can go like oh that's shitty no white city well because it's not true why isn't that true because they didn't sit there and do the work why do you say that because it didn't have the heart and soul why not and as you go down and follow like if we critiqued a piece of work and like really got down to bottom I would go okay well they use this plugin and they didn't do this and they did it in quickness and they didn't think about that and they didn't compose that and this is well you could really just destroy everything really if you wanted to it that's not the goal obviously but it's it's it's it's important to see all those things and to be honest with art because if you're not then it's like what are you doing you know right wasn't that wasn't that psychological trick where like you know like therapists would ask you like five questions in the row like why why why this white add by this like following up your answer to get to the root of the problem and the thing too I think I overheard something sent said that that yeah it definitely makes sense but yeah but but but the the idea that you get stuck with like over being overwhelmed with I want to learn something but how do I do it I don't know where to start that's that's something that every single creative goes through there is no no one who has perfect answers for everything that just never happens and if they do they're lying they're lying sure yeah because like you I remember when you started thinking about doing I mean you've been always doing short films but you started with like more of a visual vignettes you know you would do like more of a visual storytelling rather than actual storytelling but I could tell like Star Wars for you gonna be something different because you've worked so hard because you've been sending me like [ __ ] story books and screenwriting [ __ ] [ __ ] all the time for like a month straight seriously yeah and I was talking with I mean I did the podcast during the in in December for like the Christmas special with Aten and and chatty and I'll shoutouts shoutouts and and and shadi was talking about it to like you know before he started working on his own he's doing his own animation like idea and pitch of story basically like a pitch for what could be like a feature animation but he didn't do it it's like oh let me just a couple draw a couple a couple of pictures and draft the synopsis from my ass and that's and there you go like he actually studied script writing and I remember when he did that when he for the first time went to like actual script writing classes where he would find classes in LA for for for the writers and that was like years ago where he was just like I gonna study this [ __ ] cuz I'm basically a white belt in it you know I have no idea what I'm doing so yeah like you have to you always start with nothing and like you start from the very base level and it's very difficult to navigate especially if you're overwhelmed with information and and sometimes it's the best way you can you can deal with it it's just like okay out of those out of all of those you know confusing things what's the most fundamental thing that I don't know but I need to learn and starting with that just starting with that usually usually leads to all the answers along the way because it's like there's the information fatigue yeah like you've mentioned you can find that you're onto the right thing is you you actually think it's lame it's beneath you and it's not worthy of your time that's actually I think you should be learning yeah it's like oh like I should learn perspective or a composition or something you know yeah and you're like I know composition blah blah and then then it turns out you don't and you should learn it you know those that's actually I'm speaking to myself so like well I think I know composition design wise but when it comes into building scenes and building depth is something that I'm actually struggling with and I'm learning right now but again like you said it's like you're honest I guess you have to be honest I'm constantly be like well I literally look at my work and I look at your work and I go well where's the gap here and I go well the gap is here and it could go there and like but you see my progress so I would send you something like oh okay look it's getting better so I'm okay good because the lease is getting better so but I'm trying to do it exponentially fast you know so because my patience is very and I'm hard on myself so then I just bend it so but it's a common question that I get to from people and I and it's a totally applicable questions like what should I learn and we're like why should I like you know when I want to start a project which that I learn and it usually just comes down that's why we ran through the timeline for McKay's project because he's explaining to you guys like oh well I came from curiosity and then what ifs there was just a bunch of there was a chain of what-ifs for like six months and then he was like oh [ __ ] like just add up to it two years of what ifs or even more well show time you've been doing that for long yeah it's like everyone's like why would you like are you gonna pitch or you have like different projects like cares yeah I don't care about that personally and it's it's one of those things were to me to me it's like it's like a playground you know it's like I wanna I want to go play with my toys you know and then I just draw some some short time sometimes stuff you know I feel like after finishing this this film I'll be all ready for a bit sure I mean after we finished the last boy film I didn't want to see or hear or talk about it for months I was like [ __ ] a tire that [ __ ] but who knows I already have like ideas though like I could do a scene like that I could draw this [ __ ] like that you know yeah but it's like ever-evolving I don't I don't marry myself to like the idea that this has to be specifically this very thing it's always change like always evolving and changing for me it's almost like an organism that's constantly like changing and evolving so I think that's another sign that you're onto the right track when it's like that yeah because I like if this has to be this specific character yeah but I have ideas for other characters does it have to be this world yeah but I have ideas like how to [ __ ] up this world to make it something different as well you know and maybe it may be that by itself becomes a completely different idea and a completely different quote unquote IP but yeah that's important and I think that's another tall tale sign that you're actually onto the point of doing it when I was doing all these Lost Boy drawings I was just trying I was having fun and I didn't give a [ __ ] about what anybody thought or cared and I had the most fun the moment that it started to get harder for me was I start sharing it it started becoming this other thing then everybody else's opinions were getting the way of it and I was like so then I was thinking like how [ __ ] like I need to make all these other things and I was not listening to myself where I was like if if I just put a kind of I admire your ability just kind of walk in you go like I don't get [ __ ] I'm just gonna do what I want and I'm gonna draw this like I'll give you [ __ ] and you're like I don't care and then you go off and keep telling me I'm doing it to test you over see how like Hong is gonna do that and he does it and you do it okay he's pretty stringent on that okay that's good because you know you could easily go like I'm gonna just kind of do this because people like this or whatever but you're constantly going like I like this because this is part of my tastes you know so I don't read comments but I do read comments sure well yeah and nobody's unsusceptible to like yeah critique you know so you just have to believe in it and and you know it's sometimes you read comments and and it strikes you like it hurts you but you will know if it hurts you on the right or wrong way like you hurts you in a way where it's like [ __ ] I'm exposed then that that means that that's a legit criticism that you need to like perhaps look into or well you don't need to but it could be something that you're gonna learn and learn like you could learn from it but if it's like some you know vile [ __ ] is like why would I care you know and it's also like you reckon they're recognizing a legit comment or legit criticism from from just someone who just has a different taste or literally don't like you you know that's another thing yeah let's do some questions huh yeah let's let's get kids get into that we've been like talking for almost two hours and yeah balls it's good though it's good we got we got a bunch of car a bunch of questions maybe we should I mean I know you you you did the same maybe you should just do you know first me than you than me and we can start with you if you want or I could start it doesn't really matter yeah let's do it yeah I'll start it off this is a good question actually this came comes from hansi sue J when you guys do collab together what kind of rules do you set for each other it's a good question very good question I did we ever set up any roles we're always like [ __ ] like two nerds like that let's do this like two two nerds completely just obsessed about something and going back and forth like we found like this weird I mean so like I almost feel like oh we should do a call up because like we I don't think we've done enough things together as like [ __ ] we've worked on so many things yeah crazy yeah it's true but but it's always been like back and forth when literally you would just like send each other's files and oh it's your turn do whatever here doing that right now actually ironically but I think that's actually a good sign because you're obviously much better a lot of things in regards to digital art than I am so I'm constantly learning from you but I when I when you when I paint under you I get really kind of I had a lot of intensity to my like to my energy when I paint so that when I know that you get it you're not like what the [ __ ] you know yeah so actually it sharpens me makes me like really high like high pace so but we actually have totally different styles - it was kind of cool because when we did those Showtime versus Lost Boy actually I went to your style but when I actually draw a lost boy it's all freestyle [ __ ] weird energy weirdness and kind of chaotic and stuff so yeah that's the first there's no ego because it's like who cares like we were just having fun so I don't think I don't like the idea of us ever setting up rules I think if we because we're honest with each other if we find faults and one other skill we would just say it without and with knowing that we wouldn't get hurt about it because it's like because I know my place and I think you do as well and so I think we're constituents this with that what's that with with like when you when you notice that's that's I always always if someone asked me like what is it like to be friends with ash its I would say it's very intense sorry take version of Gordon Ramsay no because you are raw like you are very raw like and in the and you're relentless you know if you don't like something you say it over and over until like [ __ ] just shut up sorry like stop the [ __ ] like amore down like you don't have to keep [ __ ] kicking me it's long as I know you can take it actually I'm not real I'm not real and raw with everybody well usually just you any other close friends but but the the the positive side of this is it comes from from your heart it doesn't it it's never malicious you know and and any like there's moments where it is militias like [ __ ] this [ __ ] guy I just gonna kill you but it's usually it's just a toy but but it's usually you know related to some other events that you know we are both aware of and and that's that's like okay I know where it's coming from I shouldn't take this as as an insult Thanks you're better person on potato true that's true but to your point like yeah you have a different energy but we kind of bounce bounce back and forth like it's it's it's it's actually kind of cool because like if I do something and you're like dude you just like it's nice but like what if this and then like oh [ __ ] like we did that with bikes you know I'm ghost in the shell' where you were just like [ __ ] went crazy with weird [ __ ] no like [ __ ] I never thought about that you know like I never thought about doing it that way and like vice versa with with the with the lost boy versus showtime and all that stuff so it's always like a very interesting energy but it's like I don't think we do it in a very structured matter at all yeah I think we'd be pretty damaging if we were able to have a studio together and we would spend like one week focused of the month just one week we would just focus and crush through [ __ ] and then go away yeah it could be really interesting yeah oh yeah yeah yeah for sure I don't think we would stand each other for more than know like kill each other friendship though I think I think that's true friendship I don't think like I know my friends and I comes down I don't even join my own my own self all the time you know I mean it's like I need time for myself because I am so intense yeah it's unfortunate I don't I'm still I'm gonna actually see my therapist tomorrow so like I'm still trying to learn with like living with myself so I'm not so intense it's just yeah that Raptor get all yeah flying jealous yeah but I apologized to because I know I can be an intense and we can both be too and we can baby crude so but at the same time it's true though but it does yeah it comes from I think I've always been like that and it's a bummer because I think I always just want to have fun and have a good time but usually does it doesn't translate like that oh I don't know I think I drink everything you're doing alright yeah there's no rules I think to answer the question yeah that's a good question thank you for that question I'm gonna ask this question that's from connor fisher that's on twitter advice if your work if your work dries up in this madness and that's in relation to coronavirus i think i think a one coronavirus question is it's good to have ya answer it or what meet you yeah maybe you start so advice if your work dries up during this time yeah I mean that's that's a possibility for for all of us you know mm-hmm yeah I've said it and I've always said it and I've said it again and again I'll say it over again like you it's your responsibility as a person to take responsibility or finances she should never if you can like allow yourself to go bankrupt after like a month of no work or some like that all freelancers it's a [ __ ] rule that you need to save them six months of income yeah so that you could survive for six months so if you don't have work for three days because chronic virus is affected the civilization in America for three days so far then that's your fault but if you if it isn't and you're worried about it trying up I'd say honestly the biggest advice I can give you is first off I hope this was teaching everybody a lesson to save up I've always done this my wife and I've been really good about saving and now we just save everything for retirement so of anything anything that goes over a cap that we're supposed to pay for the daily are the monthly cost of living it all goes into savings in retirement but anyways I think what you should be doing now if you have any kind of scare is add to your skill add to your arsenal go learn new things study learn from other people there's so many resources not only there learn squared there's these artists have gum roads there's so many things out there that you can I mean I've just been throwing cash all over the place like [ __ ] boom boom buying all these things because I want to learn and I want to be better and if I'm learning then you should be learning too because we're competing so I think that's what I would say is that say like right now like it's a great time to go and learn and in skill and get some new skills and grow and yeah make sure you save up so this isn't a problem I think most of like really successful people will tell you that investing in yourself is always the best investment you if you don't have like money to invest in anything else I mean obviously you want us there's like rules I agree with you like you want to save money for the worst right like you want to have that that'll little you know you're it's called in like let's call it a nut I thinks I've heard everything from Joe Rogan like what's your night what's your not like what's your review what's your it's like absolutely minimal expense monthly expense like I you know enough to get by without all the luxuries of you know [ __ ] going to whatever with friends coffee you name it whatever your luxury is for one it might be a coffee for someone else might be [ __ ] I don't know buying expensive clothes right but yeah just having that six months absolutely important and then investing yourself like if you're in a situation like now where you might not be able to go to work invest in yourself like you you're gonna be in this situation whether you like it or not because of how the world is right now so it's probably the best time where like even if you don't even if you want to just save and hunker down like I don't I'm not I'm not spending anything there's free resources everywhere YouTube is filled with it there's just a giant library of free and you can learn everything from YouTube just through YouTube along you can learn everything maybe on maybe you're not going to learn from like your favorite artists but hey you're gonna learn enough to to have like an extra knowledge about something you know I watched Francois I watched I watched Francois go from doing motion graphic kind of stuff and then doing kind of like film stuff to doing the stuff with passage with me and I am and I and then he went off and did concept art but felt like a month or two he's crushing it and he instantly got jobs right away yeah cuz he is because his work was so good and he sat there and put in the work and got good and he learned from the right people and studied and studied and studied and studied and focused and studied so when he had a little bit of a lull he just reshift it and focused and he's so happy now yeah I think that's cuz he invested in himself I'd say the best of yourself I think you things I think if we go if I mean entertainment is probably the most resilient industry right now because in the moment like that everyone wants to be entertained like just get their head off from from just always thing about news like we want to you know think about things that are not necessarily real-world just to get just to get it like a how can I need to relax for a bit at least you know I want to watch my movie or something and it's always like a long-term the the projects that are done in entertainment most the time are done as a long-term we talked about it already it's it's one of those more resilient industries and that is also very resilient to the idea of being in the office meaning like once you learn the skill to be in this like once you learn creative skills you can work remotely which is kind of like what if there is an expandable then I'm now equipped for the next one right if that happens yeah I mean hopefully not I really hope that's not gonna happen wait for the next one right but yeah I would say it kind of like once everyone's out a job that we're gonna have a you're not gonna be thinking about it about that [ __ ] anymore there's gonna be different issues to think about once we get to that point but I don't think it's gonna happen it does this is not a kind of pandemic that's kind of this committee it's if people are dying like crazy yeah yeah this is this is this is worse than influenza but not much worse you know the problem is it's very bad for for elderly and people that has underlying condition I'm not I'm not I'm not dismaying it as just like it's really bad for it's not bad for kids it is as well like anything can happen and like people shouldn't take it lightly but it's not it's not was that film that that came out in 2011 contagion yeah it's not that oh yeah it's Hollywood yeah that's it yeah I mean a lot of things right in terms of like but it's not the kind of disease that's gonna make the world like that at all that's not gonna happen but it's gonna be difficult the life is gonna be difficult for these couple of months if not a year or even more it's definitely gonna change a lot of behaviors I think a lot of positivity comes out of it too like like you said just just the moments where you have those fire fire fire firefighters Mayan grocery for elderly I think I think this is an opportunity for us to kind of like hey you know I like what are your in the whatever political side here and whatever you believe believe in like just just be nice you know because everything is so freyal and friend John 11 and 11 changed New York big-time yeah psychologically the people from what I've seen I was funny I was on a flight to New York for a job and I was talking to this lady and sitting next to me and she's from New York and I was like do you feel like it changed the city with 9/11 and stuff she's like no and I was like really and she's like no and I was like the why is that she's like now IRA base still the same and I disagree machine she lives there so she probably knows more than me but the city that I knew before and after that event significantly different because people were like holy [ __ ] like we can't fight each other year we have together we're neighbors there's actually bigger evil than like this person down the street or whatever there's actually true legit like shitty people out there so yeah so but I think yeah I would say like the best advice is to is to acquire a new skill yeah yourself desirable and and hireable you know like make yourself so good that no matter what you're gonna be fine you know and then if you're not like try to save up enough money so that when this does happen because it will happen it's gonna happen again and things are gonna fall out the things given nothing certain and make sure that you're in a position where you can repair afford yeah you can afford this because right now like if this if this if this whole thing fell out until as long as the banks don't crash hopefully like I'm fine my family and I it's not gonna be great but we're good for a year I don't have to do work for a year because we've been working so hard and saving up but that's like years of hard work and sacrifice and saving up you know yeah yeah but you have to have that if you don't have that then what are you doing so I don't know I just don't believe in any system it's all a joke you know we're seeing it falling apart right now and it's like David gives you free you know like you're not up you're not bound to not just travel but just like you know sometimes just like do I really want to work on this thing again crush my soul you know yeah maybe maybe can I can I invest more time into myself and learn your skill it's usually that like learning your skills get you somewhere like the the way you work right now the kind of work you do I I wasn't imagining you doing this kind of work three four years ago I will accept art so yeah just just the concept like you were not into it at all you know it takes time it takes a lot of effort yeah but I just wasn't interested in it right but you know it's it's one of those things where you can you have an opportunity now or any time and you can take it and even if it's an hour a day it's still over over a year that's 365 hours that's a lot of time to learn something it's a lot of time yeah it's great to invest in yourself yeah yeah you want to read another one yeah okay how to learn more skills at time while I'm ocean gravity brush I think we kind of addressed that how to get more skills a lot of questions we addressed for sure yeah that's from my name okay we are answer to hopefully plan for the next decade in terms of creating decades yet actually I stopped doing that I stopped making decade plans cuz they're crushing actually there's so many things that get in the way of my goals that really make me sad and right and I also don't like to be so locked in to certain things I mean I had my rigid schedule and so I try not to be too stuck to things but yeah i dont plan that far out I actually stopped planning far out I just do like week to week because it gets it's like perfect example is like doing this Star Wars project if I were to expect this to get done at a certain date and it didn't it would crush me I feel like a failure and I'd hate myself and I get depressed so if I don't do that like I know I can trust myself to finish it because I have an amazing team of people that I'm working on I was with and then we're gonna see it through so I'm trusting in that method to work so so I dont plan that far away I would if I were to throw out lofty dreams dreams situation is Star Wars successful in its own right as its own ability to kind of have legs people that didn't see me as necessarily being a director creative see me in that role and I'm able to go fulfill that part of my destiny which is to go out and make larger format films or whatever that's the lofty dream right cool so but I'm not gonna honestly if that doesn't happen I'm not I'm legitimately gonna be doing the same thing we're gonna be doing podcasts I'm gonna be making car stuff I'm gonna be taking photos I'll be driving my Raptor around like I'll be saving it for my retirement like I'll be doing all these things because that's actually what's happened now so I used to have these bigger more romantic dreams of these things and I've kind of reined them back because what was happening to me is I was having these high expectations and I was getting crushed by them because I wasn't hitting these goals because I'd look at Steven Spielberg and I go like oh my god he was like 28 when he made his first film or look at these other guys I started doing the comparison game it was damaging me yeah I was hurt and then my ego was getting crushed and I was like I was like [ __ ] dying under the weight of it and so it's just really unhealthy so it's not a healthy at all yeah comparing is because you immediately your brain tells you to compare yourself to others and and then you get frustrated and you start blaming others as well for for your own mistakes you know it's like [ __ ] I didn't reach that goal there must be a reason why it wouldn't happen it's definitely not me it's probably this person that word and you just like it just becomes very toxic I agree which is always Trump dude I think about how many people blame Trump for weird stuff or just like in general let's not go there but like the same fear right that's called the blame game it's a yeah it's a legitimate psychological issue yeah yeah yeah but yeah I don't plan I don't plan like ten years ahead either like that's that's too long cuz like for me the ebony lofty goals Oh like big goals like I dunno about la get a Raptors for those of you that don't know this I have just sold my NSX I got a Ford Raptor as a truck it's amazing it's crazy truck and I keep throwing it into much a space that he doesn't happen this is a joke yeah but it's just a love it though yeah I do have you want one yeah I do one one yeah that's it's a really [ __ ] nice truck don't me and them alone come out here we'll shred in it you have fun yeah yeah I don't have like I have I have like ideas of like it would be nice let's put it this way I have would be nice things in my head you know yeah it would be nice if I if I do that and there's a certain amount of work you have to do it towards it but I always give it like a trial period and like and see how it affects me because if I setup so myself I [ __ ] me to do this no matter what and then just kills me and I become like obsessive and I'm really bad to other people and and it just destroys my life and and that's just not worth it you know because like maybe I said maybe I'll achieve that goal and and it's gonna be a long nothing nothing goes nothing is an overnight success you have to work years towards something and really you know did dedicate yourself towards it but if it's destroying everything else that you really love then that's that's not good yeah because then maybe the trade of if the trade of is fair in your in your estimate then go for it but if it's not then that's probably not a good not a good choice often times to when you think about goals that are so far an abstract that you think that you know what it is that you want but you actually know have no idea because a lot of times we have a proximity or an articulation or an association of something like oh I want to be rich or I wanna be famous rich and famous people who often talk to them or know them they don't like being rich and famous or they like one part of it they like I like to be rich or I like to be famous they it's one of the other and the rest of their life is pretty quite more and miserable because they're like I don't like people I don't want to be around people I don't wanna be identified as this person so a lot of times when you put yourself that far out there it's it's good but it's also really dangerous because you don't know where you're gonna be setting yourself up to it's really dangerous because I'm gonna be like I [ __ ] like now I'm you know this and I didn't want to be this you know the prime example is for me personally I was like oh hi I want to be a director and I don't know why I thought that I think I thought that because it was the way for me to have the ultimate control so I think that's really where it came from so then I was like okay cool I had this thing I wanna do this and then I realized holy [ __ ] this like this is it's the same thing I realized when we were doing learn squared together I was like oh my god like having a legit business it's really not for me it's a lot of calls a lot of emails a lot of frustration you know just I'm speaking for me this isn't which hair Andrews from my internal file but I mean I could speak freely so it's fine it's free conscious preconscious the saint north korea you can't control but yeah so but so a lot of things that I thought or what I want it to be actually they're not because they're it's misleading because you think it's this thing but it isn't so it's really important to kind of I try to do like weekly check-in spiritual check-ins going am i doing the right thing am i aligned with what i want to do how can I shift this you know and there's been these really cool alignments in my life like and you know this is like I love cars so I started doing these car things it's cool like it's awesome watching Keisel because Keisel has started doing cars we'd start doing cars together but Kyzyl was went full into it yeah and then I was obviously busy because I was doing edifis EPOC all these other things and also client work and family stuff and it was awesome watching him skyrocket but I'm still interested in that because I still have a passion for it so I keep doing them and then I work on do the project weekend Ken's awesome helped design his racecar super cool and then the Batmobile comes along so it's like these epic opportunities I never said in my mind if I think if I said in my mind one day I want to build the Batmobile I would be afraid of putting that out there yeah because the amount of you know even when I was doing it the amount of things that could have gone wrong I missed email I missed anything Matt might not have seen things or he might have been sick or the weirdest anomalies could happen so if I put that in the universe I want to design the Batmobile I never once did that I always thought that'd be really cool so what I'm saying is I put the lofty goal it'd be really cool to have that but I'm not gonna say that that's gonna be what I'm gonna do you know because it's choosing the cific it's really scary to do that so I guess what I'm getting at is that you can put all these things out there but just make them as almost like for me at least it's like I want to be that person I want to do that thing but generally I just want to be a happy person so let's ask myself like what do I need to do to contain like to create happiness for myself because that's really what it comes down to and everything else falls into that from there so yeah come to you I need there's no happiness but it's one of those things for you were like you latch on an idea and you you do your trade-off game okay I can put that mine dot that amount of energy towards it and it's not gonna destroy me but the mike is there's a nice-to-have goal I'm doing it from the passion but there's a nice-to-have goal that comes out of it and when you once you realize one of those goals like oh [ __ ] that's where it's at you know and that's much better place to be than than having this idea of like I I'm gonna do this this is my goal five years from now [ __ ] happening and if it doesn't happen it will crush you crushing yeah everyone's different though everyone's different I know some people that have those long term goals and they're are so obsessed about that that they will they'll reach it I know people that are just obsessed about making money that's the only thing in the world that they care about working and making money and have nothing else you are matters yeah they don't want they are not artists I'm talking about business people yeah learn is really successful business people that that is just like I just don't you know this is just a completely different computation that goes in your head you know well yeah I friends are saying yeah yeah everybody's lemon yeah you have just have to find your what drives you whatever drives you that's probably where you're gonna be successful at always yeah 100% wherever your curiosity leads you and if you're not curious person then I don't know to tell you and you should be curious because then we I don't think we really have an advice because like we have no advice yeah cuz why are you living serious like what's the point you know like well it's it's almost like the bomb knows that you're like I wanna be a little more I'll be too tense that's true politically correct in a way it's like so whoa I'm not work it's just like no you're right I'm just [ __ ] let's put it this way I wouldn't say like if you know if you don't have curiosity go [ __ ] yourself just messing around I would say if you don't have curiosity I that's that's something I just my brain doesn't understand and giving you advice I can only give you an advice knowing that I have curiosity nice and you know and say if you if you if you take that advice and and work with it that's perfect but if you're not that's just my advice I'm not like a guru or whatever it's just like it's yeah I don't know everyone's so different you know that's what I like one of those questions that and as a bunch of those actually and with self-help books which one you like the most is like you know what is very difficult to pinpoint because every single one of them is almost like a self advise that the the the person who wrote it gives to themself that's exactly it's also bespoken but in specific - yeah yeah and I need to clarify I was just joking - like obviously don't kill yourself but what I'm saying is like yeah that's what you said but okay anyways the thing is you'd put your weenus in my mouth but I said that okay but yeah so I think the real key thing is like it's important to have your curiosity it's so important to have curiosity and a drive towards the things that you are interested in and if you don't have that you need to find it like this that's like I think we chase that it perfectly is we can only give you these advice if we can give any based on our own comprehension of reality and our comprehension to reality is based on the concept that we are living on our own terms of our own reality which we've designed you know and then based off of us having a drive towards being curious about things we are really shitty about answering these questions quickly you should probably have one more question and then we just just do like maybe a few more rapid fire and then and then yeah yeah yeah what do you think will be the most interesting art trend of in the next decade you know go for that one it's very it's very yeah I don't know like I was it's just just so many things that are in works that are very unconvincing to me just yet there are certain things that are there are becoming very viable tools let's put it this way I don't think there are any developing trends I actually think it's opposite people are before are enjoying looking at the things from the past and finding quality in it you know when you when you when you when you watch when you go on the Instagram there's so many artists that get really appreciated for traditional art with which five years ago someone would say is it dad you know through that are basically like traditional artists you can work in entertainment with this you know and now it's like a booming you know because there is a completely different market for it now I I think that I think it's not gonna be as maybe specific art trend because that's something I just cannot predict I'm not - I'm not as smart enough to do it but I think the trend there are certain trends that are going to be good for artists in general one the diversity of choices you're gonna be able to make - you sustain yourself you don't necessarily need to be working film entertainment industrial design any of those industries that I've always been like the cornerstone of what the artists are supposed to do I think that's out of the window by now already and there's a lot of there's like it's like clapping and screams you get that sound bite I've been said I've been preaching that for forever it is just there's there artists that are making way better living not being in the industry and doing art and doing what they love and that's that's a sign of a time and I think this is really encouraging I think like yeah that just like even with what's what's happening now with the pandemic work from working remotely that's I think that's one of the things that are are going to become more more of a thing even even if even when it's all over right I mean it's probably never gonna be over and more cost-effective people I don't see why I don't I think there's there's there's there's a value that the company is gonna start finding and there's also like a wake-up call like when someone [ __ ] like that happens like we better be ready next time you know but who knows that's that's just like yeah it's very difficult to predict yeah those things yeah let's do a few more uh what do you think would actually you think and then she gets to rapid-fire yeah trends coming up I think you know I think faster forms of media is gonna become more prevalent things just gonna get quicker really so I think the trends are gonna be so there's a there's there's two different levels there's gonna be the quality of trends and there's gonna be the quantity based trends the quantity based trends was going to be like the everyday burnouts you know like cool and like learn how to do like simple things and have fun Bob Ross tile you know right then there's the quality trends and the quality trends are gonna be the ones that are kind of leading the upper echelon kind of things that's gonna be people that are gonna be really pushing the boundaries with what Houdini and Unreal Engine can do I think that merger is gonna be really interesting because it's real-time rendering real-time experiences I think are gonna be the new exchange because if you look at the evolution of photography you see it's black and white and then it's color yeah and then it turns into video and then video turns into HD for kak blah blah blah so on and so forth that's all still relevant based on two-dimensional screen technology the next thing is full immersion technologies and then applicable like manipulative art basically so films are gonna start to become kind of like right in the matrix yeah pretty much you know like and I have this whole theory like eventually like the whole idea is if we can figure out how to map and reach ange and synthesize a memory then we're done because with everything we've existed for our own reality doesn't matter anymore because we've actually gone off and made our own new synthesized reality and we're literally gonna make become gods of our own but that's we're not gonna see that stuff so and we're literally gonna miss like immortality probably probably by like 80 years or so I think a hundred years so so another century and then in mortality going to be within their grasp so I think it's possible and yeah people are gonna go call any other country or other places and literally the thing is once that human species can evolve past our bodies like they basically evolved through out of our bodies and minds and become energy ourselves then that's when it's gonna become a thing that's not a decade from now no that's not decade that's not a decade no but that's eventually where we're gonna have all I think so that's just my opinion I agree on the middle and and Houdini for sure who cares about that show talk about the matrix now joke guys when I super crazy tangent how old were you when you started this journey of digital art and what did you look like so weird questions has come from Adam h 3 3 3 what did I look like it's just probably [ __ ] probably like a little nerd I think when I was young I had like long hair this is like crazy surfer how long hair you had two down to my butt man dude the same yeah really yep nerds did I had I had hair but I shaved everything except like my bangs and I had these long bangs oh yeah I was like a goof goofus I'm still a goofy so but yeah so that's weird question when I look like but how old is my I started the digital art well I think I started doing digital art like in high school so like 98 I think it's when like deviantART first started and like Photoshop was actually somewhat good but yet didn't have a Cintiq or Wacom or anything yet so he started earlier than me mm-hmm yeah but I actually didn't I would do digital art I would scan my my art in and I would just like do color Corrections like you know later right I didn't do painting in anything like that until I probably didn't do painting like try to do that until like ghost in the shell' time kind of round there right so I kind of took my ability to paint in real real life and kind of try to transition in so when we were doing goes in the show was kind of when I really started to push harder for it I think I don't know what that was six years ago so six years ago six years ago um I look like a metalhead when I started yeah that was eighteen seventeen [ __ ] I don't remember anymore her name is Don Rick showed me some system I've been always drawing but like digital art I don't know I have a digital art was 2002 2003 okay yeah that's when I discovered Siegen forums and like whoa what's going on here hey Bobby hey Bobby what projects in the last decade would you love to be a part of latest Blade Runner been really cool to work on most any den evil news work yeah those are great actually would love to work with Daniel his name Danny Caine Francie did place beyond the pines like I want to kind of work with directors and people that don't do any of this stuff at all anyways you know I just wanted like literally like I want to shoot their films or I don't know like help them somehow you know so like I watch this movie called the ghost story there's a really beautiful film and they had moments of CGI and actually but it's like really well done but it was very limited and I love that I was like I was so cool where the CGI isn't the thing you know it's like it's the supplement or the supporting actor but it's not the lead you know right on but I think that and I think I mean black mirrors the first season of black mirrors was [ __ ] great yeah that would be fun to work on for sure I mean obviously we know as others I mean literally if the Coen brothers like hey like we want you to just come here and like hold my butt we're gonna realize decade was 2010 so it's that kind of kind of crazy that it's not that far away but is ten years later you know it's crazy yeah yeah I can't think well what else is there there's been a lot of films at projects I mean I don't think I don't you know what I don't think there's any anything memorable outside of life yeah then even here really new really new right that's how you spell his name is Fincher films too you know yeah I'm trying to think of the films that he's done in the last 10 years you look at iconic I would have loved to work in Sicario [ __ ] that would be a good project yeah yeah all right it's a great example yeah but it's all you know it's one of those things where you think you might love it but you never know because I exactly can actually ruins it for you yeah cuz I have friends that worked on like most like the the banger so you're like [ __ ] this movie is the best movie ever made probably fun to work on like ain't not really yes and then you know we work together on one ghost in the shell' turned out I turn out but it was [ __ ] amazing project to work on yes a lot of funny so I don't know I mean yeah like any Paul Thomas Anderson film I would love to be a part of like I adore his films I adore him as a creative person so like the master was awesome like Mad Max fury road that'd be [ __ ] yeah yeah that sounds fun honestly - your point - is sometimes it's actually nicer to just be a fan of these things because then you have no connection to it you know because I I know friends that worked on some of these projects in their life they have nothing but bad things to say and I'm so glad I didn't work on that because I can just enjoy it from the outside you know which is nice so but yeah I mean there's so many projects really but yeah Danny's films Blade Runner would have been awesome to work on I mean any of these things I love I love being on set and I'll do whatever I just love it I love the energy of a production like running like at that speed you know yeah there's so many there's a lot of them I can't think of anything off the top of my head shouldn't move on to the next question honestly yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry I'm looking at movies I'm like what is your what is your average time schedule do you start working earlier at work late and I think the biggest problem for me and in freelancing and in general is it's always inconsistent and it's really a problem so like last night or ice I was working on client stuff and I was just jamming and I didn't want to break the flow and I I do I do two shifts and the day I do about an eight-hour shift in the day and then I do an eight-hour shift at night and I ended up just staying up until six o'clock working so it's stupid so but I if I'm on a really good regimen I like to get up at ten do breakfast talk with my wife for the first 30 minutes or so and then I get into work mode 10:30 and I roll through until about 7:00 I stop and then I do I cook dinner or I spend time with the family until about 9:30 or 10:00 and then second shift comes around I do pick up on anything that I missed mmm client wise and then if not if it's just my personal stuff then I'm just focusing on this massive checklist that I make and it all kind of just kind of goes from there basically yeah I was just like chipping away slowly yeah for me it's like I don't like [ __ ] waking up early is the worst thing I hate it I know people that like to wake up early and they go to bed very early not for me not for me I feel terrible yeah I just ruins my day let the morning I love the early morning I love it so much because it's so cool there's a bigger day right well yeah it's still quiet yeah it can be fun but not one year when I know that I have a whole day ahead of work you know and and because I know it's usually gonna go very late and I but by that point I'm gonna be exhausted as too much yeah I like I don't know I don't know if I have like a specific time I wish I wake up unless I need really need to for like a call or meeting I usually try to wake up before noon generally in the in the proximity of anywhere between 9:00 and the noon and then have like one major goal this is this is the work now I need to do today and I need to spend X amount of hours at least or however many hours I need to get get done what I need to get done or it's gonna take me five hours or twelve hours doesn't matter like that's the goal for today because I know that's if I complete that goal I've completed the task to make my work obligations proper right and then I schedule my time to have time with family obviously a little bit you know whether it's morning or lunch or you know I'm very try to be very flexible I sometimes just take a break during like the afternoons like let's for a coffee or something you know and then yeah pretty much dinner yeah I try to get get dinner with family more religiously Noah days because I found like if you just work and work you get to detached dinner family eats to dinner lives together you know and then these yeah evenings his personal stuff always I try to leave all the personal stuff towards the evening because if it's exciting enough for me to work on I'll work on it if it's not then that means that's maybe not not a good idea to touch it now mm-hmm that's what she said okay I got a good question well I guess I mean it's a kind of a common question I don't know if I can answer it properly but underscore it's men V what are the best ways to improve rendering quality with octane and cinema4d the best way to learn and do that is to literally just sit with it last night I was using it and I love octane for many reasons but it was driving me bonkers because it crashed every 30 minutes but I was also throwing like trillions of stuff at it so it's but I think the best way that I've learned to improve it is have a scrupulous eye towards whatever it is you're trying to achieve and be relentless on pursuing what it is that you're after and so like just do studies like do shader ball studies like okay how does this work I've the reason why I'm not like a master of any of these things is because I just do them very based on project so I might be like really good with like space stuff cuz a EPOC or something but I don't know [ __ ] about these other things but it doesn't matter so for me it's like I think improving your ability with any render engine or just renders in general is to do studies I was just listening to see if I can find him his paya he has a really good youtube channel he's a really sweet guy he looks like Jesus I'd be ye DESY and I design he's on YouTube and I subscribed to his channel and he does awesome really informative great and tutorials on octane specifically and he's really great and he's very gracious with his time and Schurz a lot of really great stuff so he's really good and I've been using an octane for a long time and he was teaching me stuff like I didn't know that or I didn't know that thing and there's a lot of cool things to to be learned from him on that so yeah yeah what's the question like how do you improve your rendering quality skills specifically I think probably towards me because it was I was Octane's in the 40s right oh right right um there was a question of the books we already answered what's it what is ah I don't think there's any like a lot of questions we already answered there's a lot of like love you know best news ever how you became friends we can already answered uh how did we come become friends I think I reached out to you or for the podcast right yeah we did the podcast together I even I know forgot and then they kind of went from there cuz we're talking and then you know really hey I'm doing ghosts in the shells like [ __ ] yeah let's do that and we did that I helped a little bit that's right you did the scene where she's sitting at the window yeah yeah did another one did you where's that one yeah with the water that's right yeah the water scenes so we did a little bit of work together and then you're like hey you should do jujitsu and I started doing jujitsu [ __ ] what we're talking all the time so it kind of snowballed from there that goes to Sheldon learn squared yeah yeah challenges of running your own business with concept art I guess it's like a different layered right like if you were if you well a like you should probably have a business meaning like LLC or something so you're protected but likely have a liability protection that's I think like nowadays with like all the litigations [ __ ] thrown left and right it's probably a good idea to have you know yeah and for tax purposes as well so I agree yeah I think like running a business where you like Duke hire people to do work for you that's another Bowl I do that and it's tough yeah it's difficult it's very difficult I just hire friends and I pay them as best I can and it's really difficult because you have to manage your expectations and timelines and stuff it's really it's really challenging yeah it's a definitely part possible but I think the biggest challenge that I've experienced is just managing people's expectations I've actually turned down a lot more jobs that were bigger in scope because it caused me so much stress it's just not worth it to me so I've kind of avoided it because I just don't like the magnitude that it gives me if I can't fulfill it within like myself and maybe hiring two other friends I usually don't want to do it and people be like oh that's a bummer you missed out on like this opportunity with this work this big client I go not really because like it's it's more gonna hurt me anyways because I'm gonna be so stressed out about it yeah yeah and I've already gone down this road so many times it's like at the end of the day you get all these awards you make all these accomplishments in there they're not they're not worried they're not really anything yeah you know what everyone forgets about him in a year later like oh you work nesting who cares yeah yeah it's all like um it's just like it's just like oh this is great it's cool it's definitely cool and validated but yeah I think some things thating maybe longer for a few years but that's about it yeah managing expectation is dimmable search for jetpack asked me please come on discord I don't know what that is [Laughter] John Joe 3d I'm so behind on this like you'd clowning me all the times I just don't I don't like I don't do the reddit thing I don't do any of those things I feel like like why would I want to do that as much as I'd love to be social of people or whatever it's like there's such a [ __ ] time so I vacuum like I don't you play video games like you know yeah what skilled technical or social has helped you most in your careers communication communication yeah listening yeah and listening oh yeah listening dude listening is so important and communication and just being like reasonable I think yeah yeah maybe last one I'm gonna read I did let's keep going 40-hour yeah I think I can keep going all night I know you're tired just for fun which spirit spirit animal would you describe ash and vice versa your spirit animal I'd say like a porcupine yeah like it hurts if I catch you Waylon you're like you just kind of crawl around and like roll around you need like walls and you do your work that's not bad for you pie it's pretty fun I came so quick that's not natural was that's real talk right there dude I I think you would be a cool that's cool I love koala they're also savage [ __ ] they look Cuba man it was like on the surface you you look cuddly and like oh he's a nice guy but like once you get wet exactly you just being real nice the porcupine I'll give you a compliment so not Dan Martin asked Showtime updates I think we talked a bit about Showtime I'm actually drawing a over painting over a backplate for one of those shots right now and you're probably working on a right now to [ __ ] what see somebody think about that tonight so funny it's hazel was asking why why do I love you both you know he says that why do you love is why would she love us both why don't you love us a long time I love Geisel he's such a sweetheart he's killing I'm so happy for his success and I had him on the podcast like within a month or so ago and it's cool I mean he's like he's legitimate celebrity of art oh dude yeah he so quickly became that [ __ ] proud of him yeah he's chasing his dreams now he's freelancing and stuff he's loving it this house is getting better so yeah it changed him like the moment he left full-time job and started following his [ __ ] it's a completely different person yeah yeah there he goes I'm good see it you could see it in peeps you know yeah okay last question let me try and find one this is a good one humanoid or humaid hu ma id3 ass is it worth learning to draw before learning 3d modeling it's a very good question I personally think from me but it's always important to learn how to draw for all of the skills that regard creativity in art I think it's very important that's just me I think art and learning how to draw and connecting my mind to my hand over the years has helped me so much and it makes my work and myself somewhat unique I think because I'm able to extract things first thing quickly fast instead of going in so like if you want to learn how to do 3d modeling that's fine eventually if you're all you're doing is like modeling your job is most likely gonna get fulfilled by other things because you know they are learning and all kind of stuffs can take over a lot of these like remedial kind of things that nobody wants to do but I would say it's so important I think I think every artist if you are creative it's important for you to to have a hand at art and to be able to express yourself that way I think is really important so yeah I agree learning to draw like you can you can see that artists that know how to draw or learn or actually pursuing the that with crafts are so much better now than just being 3d artists a lot of people that you know go go that route I get better results over time because like you can you know there's always like with 3d getting to like a really good quality sometimes this is just like vert you can get to very fast into very good quality but then surpassing that that the last 5% 10% it's [ __ ] time-consuming to do it 3d whereas we just if we can draw on top like over paint or you know how to paint or you know how to draw or like draw expressions and whatnot that becomes so much easier because you go okay I only need to get it to 80% because I can finish it up real quick with my painting skills you know just even from like production perspective but even just just like once you know how to draw like sometimes sometimes it's very easy to when you look at 3d you get bogged down with specific details and you and you lose lose perspective and then and also there's also an aspect of like 3d and the perfection that comes with it from the render becomes very very you know quote-unquote CG or very very artificial yeah and you might lose that you know that organic feel that comes from from imperfections of drawing or imperfections of catching the light on surfaces and that's why I like what brush to use all usually that means that you do like the kind of texture that those brushes produce not necessarily the brush itself you know or the way it's expressed like yeah yeah I know in how to ask the right questions I think that was another thing we should have said too about the skills that are really important is knowing how to ask the right questions is really key yeah because oftentimes you ask a question you think that's what you're after but you in fact if you sat there and thought about you go oh actually what I'm actually is this you know so yeah that's just getting familiar with yourself so no all right dude wrap it up no it's time to keep going to pluck tense shows intense this keep going porcupine [ __ ] [ __ ] alright cool okay yeah the rinks and the Ronis yeah my last thoughts for everybody thanks first mache thanks for having me on and last thoughts for everybody is to stay positive out there you know be thankful for hopefully your health is good and your family and loved ones are in good health and just take good care of yourself and and those you love and try to respect like the domain that's happening like stay inside try not to socialize with people so you don't continue this thing and I also just think like pretend this time to like be blessed with the fact that you have time to learn and go out there and try to learn everything that you can because you this time is gonna be limited everybody's gonna have to go back to normal this is gonna only last so long so take advantage of that have a good time with it and enjoy it celebrate it turn a bad thing it's a good thing if you can it's totally worth it and it's within your power to do so so yeah yeah I agree we live in a world where content is king and is becoming a king the content is more and more important you know Disney is buying would they buy Fox about everything yeah they bought everything but they're buying it for content you know and there is a reason for it and this is this is a time where you can create content because you might be in this situation where there's nothing else to do and so like learning learning that skill yeah hundred percent agree and staying positive yeah I think I think that's really important to like not reading news not reading into it yeah get like reliable news source and I'm not talking about a CBC or like any of those companies that talk about politics the private news sources behind and the Koala will tell you the news look at the real news sources for this specific thing which would be universities and and you know CVC or you know health organizations w-h-o like those companies that have actual people that work in the trenches and they know what the [ __ ] they are talking about so you can get the dose of what you need to know and be prepared and not to get bothered by weird [ __ ] that comes out from news all the time and like opinions about Joe Schmo who he thinks that the pandemic is gonna be like into lighter stuff it's like what you're not a doctor like why are you talking you know because they can tell because they can yeah exactly on Twitter like avoid Twitter I know you Twitter yeah during the pandemic do not use Twitter yeah that's literally the pandemic don't avoid it and don't I don't use any of that [ __ ] yeah yeah just have fun to have a good time enjoy yourself be safe you know stock up get your food you know be smart about your decisions and take this time to get better learn a new skill so that when you come back to the workforce you have something cool something to offer and then you'll kill it you'll crush it you'll have a new thing it's awesome we'll all learn from it and then you'll go make a Gumroad and we'll buy for $5 a bake like $13 total throw your app hey yeah bye - yeah awesome thanks homie appreciate for you I appreciate for you joining the cup the podcast I should join yours one day maybe you're welcome anytime maybe once yeah maybe once the film is done we're gonna have a like a large topic to talk about for sure but anytime anytime you need a guest [ __ ] run out of juice just let me know obviously I mean or don't even have to say that because you will let me know anyways yeah I just yeah yeah sure absolutely anyways anyone who joined this and was listening to us for grumbling for almost three hours thank you for that I really appreciate you guys we're doing this because I mean I normally was planning to do podcasts every two weeks and recording ahead of time so I can be more flexible with my schedule but with everything going on I figured you know what this is a good opportunity to reach out to people just say something positive or just ramble you know I like to listen to podcast when I when I work or we know try to get myself those things now and maybe find something inspiring so if that's what it is for you that's great leave a like comment below the video follow the podcast obviously this goes on YouTube it's also posted always on soundcloud iTunes you know Spotify all those places so you don't post it to pornhub or read to through the whole probably I should I should I did yeah but you can find it everywhere but I stitcher and Google Plus all those places so really appreciate you guys thanks a lot thanks for listening being a follower and supporting the show and yeah big kisses and stay healthy until the next time yeah cheers see y'all peace alright you

Channel: Art Cafe

Views: 18,725

Rating: 4.9384613 out of 5

Keywords: art, artist, podcast, art cafe, entertainment, covid-19, coronavirus, pandemic, learn, learning, opportunity, ash thorp, maciej kuciara, artists, design, designer, film, industry, video games, tips

Id: hYdIuGGJzuA

Length: 172min 6sec (10326 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 22 2020