Arrested For Looking Young in Public

[Music] welcome to audit the audit where we sort out the who and what and the right and wrong of police interactions this episode covers identification laws loitering and involuntary transport and is brought to us by jaime guevara's channel be sure to check out the description below and give them the credit that they deserve before we dive into the interaction i want to give a big thanks to the sponsor of this episode raycon i've been using the raycon everyday e25s for months now and they have become my go-to earbuds because of their compact design and noise isolating fit not only do the e25s block out noise but they also offer six hours of battery life seamless bluetooth pairing and a dynamic listening experience the everyday e25s are stylish discreet and start at about half the price of other premium wireless earbuds raycons come in a variety of colors and fits and come with a 45 day free return policy a pair of raycon earbuds would make a great gift this holiday season especially for those people who you aren't quite sure what to buy and now is the best time to order because raycon is offering the ata community a limited time 20 discount off your purchase using the link in the description below this discount is only available for the next few weeks so be sure to take advantage of it while you can thanks again to raycon for sponsoring this episode in early october of 2019 19 year old jaime guevara and his 21 year old cousin were filming a police interaction while sitting at the outdoor tables of houghton park in long beach california after recording the stop for approximately four minutes officer romo of the long beach police department noticed mr guevara and initiated contact how about don't worry about it sir you know what well since we're by the school yeah i'm a little worried about because that's what we're supposed to be doing so are you supposed to be in school right now no sir okay how old are you does it matter sir yes it does matter no it doesn't see you told me he's 21 how old are you all right dudes and my how old i am okay you're recording fool because he's trying to do them over here are you guys recording it's okay come on over come on because i got to figure out how old you are if you're supposed to be in school or not i don't i don't want no searches or no seizures that doesn't matter because it doesn't matter because i just i didn't do nothing listen to me no school's in session all right i know that okay you look like you're supposed to be in school well i'm not well then how old are you does it matter yes it does no it doesn't yes it does you came over to me because i'm recording you that doesn't deal with it i'm telling you why you're harassing me right now okay come on let's just come on over here come on let's go over here i'm just making sure y'all don't do nothing that's fine we're like how old are you then i'm i'm old see i don't know you got ideas to prove it i do have an idea but i'm not going to show you guys i don't know all right come on i ain't doing no crime no i know but until i find out you're not supposed to be in school all right i'm 19. there okay where's your idea i don't have idea i don't got to provide define do no crime that's is that right or not no no california is one of the few states that has no laws requiring citizens to show their id to police prior to arrest except while driving california penal code 148 is the state's disorderly conduct law and according to executive director of the aclu of southern california hector villagra some law enforcement officials have attempted to use this code to arrest individuals who refuse to identify themselves under the doctrine of the 2004 supreme court case of high bell versus nevada director villagra goes on to explain that the high bell doctrine applies exclusively to states with stop and identify laws on the books and that while the high bell ruling is valid in places like nevada it does not apply in states without failure to identify laws like california citizens in california are not required to present their identification to police officers even if they are suspected of committing a crime however officers may still detain and investigate citizens if they have acquired reasonable suspicion we will discuss whether the long beach officers had reasonable suspicion in a moment but it is important to highlight the fact that mr guevara was not violating the law by refusing to present his identification or state his name it isn't i'm not it's not listen your name number it's right there your number it's five six for one your name all right what is your name i don't know listen i understand i don't have to provide me i didn't do nothing wrong in your opinion you didn't in our opinion you did like what okay saying not saying let me finish interrupting i don't know because you're okay i can't answer your question he came out to me yes for no reason no i had a reason what was the reason you look kind of young i'm not young i don't better go to work okay well then can you prove it no because then you're trying to go run me in your system like i just want to make sure you're uh you're old enough ammo'd i told you already i'm 19. what's your name i don't have to say my name i don't have to tell you my name sir you know that i didn't do nothing wrong okay let me let me explain something to you you could explain everything you want sir we can do this really yeah everybody come on no you guys don't no you see now he's more sketchy now i don't want to get to you you just grabbed me and took me over here yeah yeah i'm trying to get you over to my car i don't want you i'm we're fine yeah okay then just show me your id or i don't know i don't have i don't want to show you no idea yeah you do for what but what kind i just explained to you i'm not i just told you he told you he's 21 of daytime day oh no i'm with you what i'm doing what did i do daytime loitering oh daytime lord yeah wow juveniles daytime loitering so i gotta figure out that you're not that's right how are we officer romo tells mr guevara that he is being investigated for daytime loitering but according to a statement from fox news 11 in los angeles what the officer is actually referring to is section 9.58.020 of the long beach municipal code this code creates a daytime curfew between the hours of 8 30 a.m and 1 30 p.m for minors who are subject to compulsory education on days when school is in session in order for officer romo to establish reasonable suspicion he must be able to articulate specific facts that led him to believe that mr gavarra was in violation of the loitering code and he points to mr gevara's youthful appearance the fact that he has a backpack and that he is so close to the nearby high school it is debatable whether this evidence would satisfy the reasonable suspicion standard however subsection 9 of the loitering code dissolves this debate by creating an exception to the law if the suspected minor is engaged in a first amendment protected activity along with the 1st 3rd 5th 7th and eleventh circuits the ninth circuit court of appeals which presides over california has recognized the right to record the police and deemed the act constitutionally protected under the first amendment in the 1995 case of four dice versus city of seattle although officer romo may have had reasonable suspicion that mr gavarro was a loitering minor it is clear that mr guevara was engaged in a constitutionally protected activity which thereby granted him an exception from the loitering code you're supposed to be in school we are not in school well i don't know that so all you have to do is prove that to me no i told you i'm 19. i don't got to prove he told you when he went why are you telling him to go prove something because he's not nothing sketchy like you i'm not i was recording you you come up you post up a moment you don't know what they told me if you would have told me hey i'm 19. right away no i might have i don't gotta tell you nothing it's my rights okay listen to me i'm gonna call another unit no they're gonna they're gonna take you to the school now what's cool jordan i don't go to georgia i don't know that i don't go to jordan well that's where you're going to end up going if unless you show me how old you are all right now if i complain y'all huh i'll fight complain y'all for harassing me you can alright i will but they're going to come and take you anyway until you id yourself i don't got id myself okay officer romo offers mr guevara the ultimatum of presenting his identification or being taken to the nearby high school to verify whether or not he is a student there but involuntarily transporting citizens is a somewhat contentious topic within the courtroom much of the historical legislation regarding the involuntarily transporting of suspects exists at the state level but the supreme court has explored the issue before in the 1979 case of dunaway versus new york like many of the state level courts the supreme court subscribed to the notion that transporting citizens against their will constitutes an arrest and must be supported by probable cause in the case the court held that the officers who had brought a suspect in for questioning without probable cause violated his fourth and fifth amendment rights and stated that the defendant's detainment and transportation was quote indistinguishable from a traditional arrest in his concurring opinion justice byron r white emphasized the importance of balancing the interests of police officers with the privacy of citizens but also noted that defining a universal precedent that would apply to most or all circumstances would be difficult the dunaway case was cited when the supreme court addressed the issue again in the 1983 case of florida vs royer and acknowledged that quote a police confinement which goes beyond the limited restraint of a terry investigatory stop may be constitutionally justified only by probable cause the court went on to reaffirm this decision once again in the 1985 case of hayes versus florida even if mr guevara was not engaged in a constitutionally protected activity it is unlikely that officer roma would be within his authority to involuntarily transport mr guevara to the high school without legitimate evidence to support his suspicions he's our sergeant man better for you it's fine man it's you i know i didn't do nothing wrong i have no problem no i have to prove okay what's your name and birthday then why is he i know i'm not doing that either sir come on you know what's your birthday you know your birthday he doesn't have the right to tell you he didn't do no crime he's the one that he's my cousin this is my cousin okay well let him talk to you no he don't have to talk he can stay right there all he wants i didn't see him i didn't do nothing wrong sir can you get a guy he came over here and insulted me grabbed my arm telling me how old i was and i told you i was 19. he doesn't want to talk i go to lbcc now he wants he grabbed me tugged me why did you why couldn't you tell me that because you grabbed me and started taking me you try to come with me and try to tell you i'm 19. sir anyone here grabbing me you have id to prove you're 19. do i have to show id if i never would like to know if you're 19. otherwise maybe you go to the school right i don't go to school sorry you can take my word how do i know that you look like you're underage to me you don't look like you're happy so all right it's fine bro that's fine you have a bad time after school all right i have a backpack he has a bad back too we go to the same job do you want to take him over to this one fine well you have a unit coming right now all right it's fine so if you want to go to the school that's fine man you guys are harassing me and everything it is harassment man he has saw to me too why don't you go to law school and you can figure it out no no i don't got to go to law school all right man watch too much youtube that's your problem sure that's what he did i ain't got to tell you that i live around here though that's for sure so you don't want to tell us your birthday you want to be placed in handcuffs instead is that's how it's going to go all right that's how it's going to go all right then sir okay y'all want to harass me and stuff he assaulted me already it's all good it's not a salt nope it is a salt it is a salt if he just comes up to you and just grabs you and tugs on you we're done mr gavarro was handcuffed and placed in a patrol vehicle but once the officers confirmed his age he was released the fox 11 news team ran a story on the interaction but no conclusion was mentioned beyond that i was unable to locate any additional information regarding this encounter so comment below if you have an update and i will add it to the description of this video overall the long beach police officers get an f for investigating mr guevara while he was engaged in a constitutionally protected activity misrepresenting the authority of the loitering code and involuntarily transporting mr gavara to the nearby high school mr guevara was effectively placed under arrest for looking too young near a school and this type of conduct sets a dangerous precedent for the enforcement of subjective observations the supreme court has clearly established that involuntarily transporting citizens is unconstitutional and mr guevara's transport would likely have fallen within the scope of those rulings many scholars have even made the argument that daytime and nighttime curfews restrict the constitutional rights of minors but that's a topic for another episode perhaps the gravest error of the long beach officers was neglecting to consider the entirety of the loitering code and disregarding the fact that mr gavarro was exercising his first amendment right to record the police although the officers were well within their authority to make contact with mr guevara the basis for their detention of him was supported by intuition rather than fact and the circumstances surrounding his detainment likely amount to an illegal arrest mr guevara gets an a-minus for remaining relatively calm and collected throughout the encounter engaging in a stern but peaceful dialogue with the officers and maintaining a balance between complying with the officers and retaining his rights mr gavara certainly could have invoked his right to remain silent more often but his conversational ability served him well at some points during the interaction if mr gevara hadn't recorded this encounter then it likely would have had a dramatically different outcome both on the street and within the courtroom although mr guevara was ultimately arrested and released his relaxed demeanor and casual protest to questioning from the officers will likely translate well to the courtroom but his willingness to engage in petty squabbles with the officers could leave him open to self-incrimination i commend mr guevara for having the awareness to record his encounter and the temperament to address the accusations of the officers calmly as mentioned before i do not have any follow-up information about this story but the youtube account who posted the original video appears to belong to mr guevara so go subscribe to his channel and encourage him to provide an update you can find a link in the description below let us know if there's an interactional legal topic you would like us to discuss in the comments below thank you for watching and don't forget to like and subscribe for more police interaction content you

Channel: Audit the Audit

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Keywords: amagansett press, first amendment audit, 1st amendment audit, auditing america, news now california, sgv news first, high desert community watch, anselmo morales, photography is not a crime, san joaquin valley transparency, first amendment audit fail, walk of shame, news now houston, police fail, 1st amendment audit fail, public photography, auditor arrested, police brutality, highdesert community watch, pinac news, cops triggered, news now patrick, east hampton

Id: QL_vdOtdzCc

Length: 15min 6sec (906 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 09 2020