Archive: Tucker Carlson on Ukraine war, M&Ms and being an extremist | SpectatorTV

[Music] thank you Tucker uh I think it's fair to say you've encountered quite a lot of criticism in recent days because as far as I can figure out you are the only mainstream host who is skeptical of the idea that President Biden needs to interfere militarily if Vladimir Putin invades Ukraine and for that you have been called a Russian spy a Russian asset uh Democratic politicians have said that you are your viewers are calling them up to tell them that you're on Russia's side how do you answer this charge that you are on the side of an evil authoritarian with the chuckle um but what's interesting is the presumption in the United States is that it's you know terrible to be an asset of Russia but entirely acceptable to be an asset of Ukraine and and many of course in Washington are the president's own son worked for a Ukrainian company and the president himself was deeply enmatched in the internal politics of Ukraine when he was vice president and of course till today um and I'm not sure why that's better you know no one in the United States ought to be an agent of a foreign power or promoting foreign interests at the expense of America's interests I mean in a democracy it's very simple the government exists to serve the people who put it in power by voting and your foreign policy ought to reflect that which is to say your foreign policy ought to serve the interests of the country now if it's ancillary effects or improve the lives of others then that's that's certainly great and virtuous but if its primary goal is to serve the interests of other countries or their populations then it's by definition legitimate I mean that's the you know that's the role of church groups and ngos and you know there are plenty of humanitarian organizations but the US military United States Department the White House the US Congress even our media exist for the benefit of the United States period and they've lost sight of that and that's the problems the argument I'm making against intervening between Ukraine and Russia and we already have by the way we've said billions in what we're now calling lethal weapons as opposed to what I suppose but um missile systems and small arms and all kinds of stuff to Ukraine into neighboring countries you know we're already funding a proxy war so why would we be doing that I mean is there a vital American interest that serves perhaps there is I haven't heard anyone explain it and you sort of know if they go immediately to you're working for Vladimir Putin or something I have like a limited interest in Vladimir Putin I've never been to Russia I don't speak Russian much less Ukrainian it's just not a part of the world that is captured by interest but even if it had to answer my question right I mean like what is the vital interest at stake and of course they they can't answer it so they go ad hominem immediately to me that's a very obvious sign of their weakness if you become hysterical when someone asks you why you're doing something then maybe you're doing the wrong thing well perhaps there's a certain insecurity about NATO uh and particularly among in Britain I know uh there's a strong desire to sustain NATO even though the sort of primary purpose of NATO uh to win the Cold War has gone uh and do you think there's an argument a legitimate argument to be said that if we allow uh Putin to expand into Eastern Europe into non-nato Powers then he will be buttering buffering up against uh NATO powers that we are committed by treaty to support and America is committed by treaty to support so it it puts Russia and the West at a sort of trigger point that they aren't at the moment okay well I I mean I guess but that would be a voluntary trigger I assume I mean I think it's important given that the Soviet Union collapsed when I was on my honeymoon that was 30 years ago I mean the full collapse happened in August of 1991 that was the point it was my father worked for the US government waging the Cold War so that was at the very center of our family's conversations every night at the very same moment that many of these now Russia Hawks are making excuses for the Soviets I should point out irony of ironies but any case it was a secular regime then it's a regime that subsidizes the Orthodox church now so maybe that's the difference I just to guess but but in any case at that point you know you'd think someone would say okay we have all these post-war institutions that have I think very effectively maybe even valiantly serve their purpose they kept the Soviets from invading Western Europe that's great I was always for that always for NATO but at this point what is their purpose maybe we repurpose them we recite we have a standing army called NATO so maybe we do something new with it but no one ever or kind of articulated what the new purpose is and that's a huge problem if you have I mean this is a thing something that you know anyone who covers Washington where I was for 35 years sees every single day these zombie institutions marching forward toward what no one will ever say their original purpose has either disappeared where they failed to achieve it they've been proven ineffective at doing what they were designed to do but they continue because they're well funded that's fine if it's the Head Start program which was designed in 1965 to raise the IQ of poor kids it didn't work but we still have it but if you have an army if you have a military alliance called NATO I don't know that could be really disruptive unless you have a clear goal I mean this used to be prerequisite for all military action define articulate the goal make it very clear to all participants this is what we're attempting to do Imperial Japan we will not stop until you prosper and we accept your unconditional surrender they wouldn't we dropped the atom bomb on two other cities okay got it now you could agree or disagree with what we did but the goal was never in doubt was unconditional surrender so what is the goal of NATO exactly to protect Ukraine that's not a member I mean the whole thing is so so crazy and childish I anyway you see the point if I mean if if as some people suggest one day you might be if you were president of the United States would you say let's scrap NATO you know as it can as an instinctive conservative I'm against breaking things without a good reason so you have I think the first thing I would do with assess your students we have this thing we have this military Alliance it's awfully well funded and awfully well-armed relatively speaking and is there something useful we could do with that and I and I think it would be worth pausing I have not I've been thinking about this for you know fairly intently for four years since Putin three and a half years met with Trump in Helsinki I was there and this was this was a big topic like what's the point of NATO and I have not met anyone who could explain how we could do something useful with NATO um does anyone sincerely believe that Western Europe is at risk of being invaded by Putin well if it is then Western European nations which I think we at this point can trust to have weapons should defend themselves I mean that's the idea of the nation-state you defend your own interests you have a vested interests you have what we call skin in the game and you want to defend it if it's worth something to you and that system has kind of worked fairly well well I mean I don't want to sound like I don't want to sound like a hawk because I don't think I am but I mean I suppose the theory would be if let's say Putin somehow takes over Ukraine which again is is doubtful uh he would then be up against the Baltic states some of which are uh some NATO members so what how would you how would you deal with that would you say that if he invades a Baltic state does that become a difference I'm not sure I would deal with I mean as from the American look I'm an American I have no other passport I've got four kids four dogs and a house I'm not going anywhere so from my perspective is wholly American and I think every country has a different perspective that's why I was for brexit you know and each country should be able to represent its own perspective on the world stage that's like a baseline view for me so from an American perspective I would say is it you know given the competing nature of interests is it in the top tier of interests to prevent Russian expansion in Eastern Europe I mean it's not something you'd wish you want free people to live in Freedom on the other hand the freedom of people threatened the world over their ongoing border disputes in Africa the continent that I'm actually interested in that have been you know going on grinding on causing the deaths of literally millions for decades and you know that's sad nobody wants it to be the case but is it in our interest to physically prevent it or try to we also have a terrible record of actually affecting the desired outcomes we just withdrew from Afghanistan this fall after the longest war in American history and rather than pausing to ask why didn't that go as expected what are the mistakes we made what are the assumptions that led to those mistakes were on to you know contemplating an invasion of Russia during winter because that works anyway this is very interesting I would ask the question like the the clearly the threats to the United States and the uh our interests global trade routes energy pure like military power relative uh relative military power comes from China of course and so to the extent that you are focused on another region given the size of our military our attention span the limits of our budget you are detracting from that and so the question is is it worth it and being American we're not trained to think that way we imagine everything is a possibility the world's a menu of Endless Possibilities we can do all of it but the truth is we can't never have been able to there are limits of you know physics and money and in reality that impose on you and so of course I wish Latvia the best I would feel sad if Latvia ever lost its autonomy to the extent it actually has autonomy as a new member but whatever I would say to myself you know that's sad is it but is intervening given the realistic possibilities of doing what we want to do worth it given that that would detract from the real problems which are East not Eastern Europe but Far East so that's how I would think about it I think that's a pretty moderate sensible realistic way to think about anything I don't think that's radical I certainly don't think it's taking Putin's side I have no I have no special interest in any of this I only care about my country what's interesting you mentioned in China because I mean there's been a lot of talk in foreign policy circles about the Pacific pivot over the last 20 years in America and how America's strategic Focus now has to move to the Pacific rather than to Europe the Middle East uh and Eastern Europe uh and of course the Pacific pivot does actually challenge China I mean it does challenge China's ambition so it does presumably suit China for America to be focused on uh the Ukraine because it means they care a little bit less about what China's doing in say the South China Sea or something like that needless to say so and you could you know look I'm not alleging any conspiracy here I do think there is a feature of human nature that causes and I think it's innate that causes people when confronted with an unsolvable problem to turn to something else to occupy their minds and anyone who's been I mean this is relevant to your viewers or journalists anyone's ever been on deadline for say a magazine piece will find himself sorely tempted to rearrange his books by offer because it's it's another problem to work on as you ignore the problem that confronts you that you actually can't solve China is a problem this is very hard for the United States to solve it's not clear How We Do solve that problem but by problem I mean you know sort of giving hegemony over the world to a country that doesn't believe anything really that we believe it would be a massive change in the way the world operates in the way that we in the United States live and the way that you and Great Britain live I mean having China in charge of the world would be very different from what we have now that's a huge concern a legitimate concern I think um and we're not meaningfully dealing with it and I think you know part you often your people on the right say well that's because they're all taking money from China well yes that's true our former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was like a by the way but got rich as so many have been but you know got rich effectively making China's case to the American Business Community many others in our diplomatic War have done the same so that's that's a straight up sellout Hollywood sells out the NBA sells out they're controlled by the Chinese government everyone knows that but I think the deeper problem has nothing to do with Commerce it just has to do with the terrifying nature of this threat and our own fear that we can't actually do anything about it so here's where I would start not that I make these decisions but it's not a question of pivoting East China has massive influence within our hemisphere go to any island in the Caribbean including the American colonies there we call them protectorates or Southern Colonies Saint Croix Virgin Islands for example all the infrastructure in San Carlos built by China what why would China be building the airport and the roads in Saint Croix and why are they doing the same in Jamaica and Haiti and virtually every population Center in the Caribbean also true in South America again this is our hemisphere which for more than 200 years we've said explicitly we control we will not allow you know world powers from across the oceans to control you know anything of meaning in our Hemisphere and yet they are and this is being completely I never heard anybody mention it I've just noticed it from traveling a lot so I would just start there and say you know what is this about maybe it's totally benign that they're building the infrastructure in Bolivia maybe it's not well also I mean if if you were designing American global strategy you would think if you were George Cannon or something you would think isolating China would be good therefore splitting Russia off from China would be good except for the fact that America's rhetoric at the moment seems to be driving Russia to and China together as as quickly as possible what's and that is of course the effect I I personally believe it's one of the intended effects but what's so fascinating to me and so repugnant is that clearly there are many people in positions of power in the United States who sincerely believe that we have more in common with China and this government than the government of Russia now this is in no way a defense of the way the Putin government operates you'll notice I don't live there I don't care to I feel sorry for Ed Snowden is stuck there etc etc but if we're being honest and we always should be we have far more in common with Russia than we have with China I mean Russia is a Christian country no it's not any kind of Evangelical country or morally upright country I'm not right but its culture is rooted in western civilization which is another way of saying we never say it but it's true Christian civilization and Christianity I mean it's presuppositions are Christian whether it lives up to them often it doesn't the darkest period in Russian history was the period when it ceased to be Russia then became Soviet and you know anyway you see the point so for our leaders we're very familiar with how both of those countries work to look at the world and say you know we're on China's side which is absolutely what they're saying reveals something horrifying about them again that's you could say you know I hate Putin I hate the way he runs that government but really compared to what I mean that's the other thing compared to what this is a nasty world filled with you know genocidal lunatics at the helm not simply of two or three countries but of a lot of countries and the only reason they're not committing genocide is because I'm the power to but there are a lot of bad people in charge always have been so to decide that Putin is the worst of the lot like you're lying actually or you're totally ignorant well you'll you'll bring up of Christianity and Western culture brings up another accusation that is often made against you which is that you are arousing the forces of ethno-nationalism uh how do you respond when people say that to you ethno net I mean that's one of those phrases that the sort of half-wits in charge of the Atlantic magazine throw around without thinking about ethnonationalism I don't know I don't even know what my ethnicity is I'm like half Swedish I have English I guess it's not of great interest to me I can tell you that I'm an American I don't think of nothing in terms I wasn't raised that way at all um and I still don't and I resist all pressure too pressure mostly from the left to categorize myself and everybody is a member of some Community or racial group I hate that and I will never participate in it so but I would say what's so interesting is that the same people who are saying you know opposing war with Russia over Ukraine is ethnonationalism or simultaneously making the case the Ukraine is for ukrainians and the Russians have have no right to enter so our country we had two million immigrants unauthorized illegal without documents whatever you call them come into this country in the last calendar year 2021 2 million that's like four times the size of the city of Boston that's a massive number of people okay even in a country of 345 million so a lot of people unprecedented and the pre the justification for this is well borders are racist people have a right to go whatever they want in search of a better life here I'm looking at tens of thousands of Russian citizens massed on the Ukrainian border hoping to get in for a better life and I'm seeing world leaders say no you're not allowed to do that Ukraine is for ukrainians I mean speaking of ethnonationalism why is this if we can import thousands of Haitians illegally why is it such a lift for the ukrainians to you know let several thousand Russians in obviously I'm joking sort of I mean of course I'm joking but I also think like that's that's a ridic I mean speaking of ethno Nationals what's the largest ethno-nationalist nation in the world well it's their closest Allied China is an ethno State it's run by and for the Chinese what do you think the weakers are getting so much trouble why do you think that you know the Mongolians and the Tibetans because they're not hung Chinese so look I I'm not you know you run your country as you want I'm not really much of a judger actually I judge my own country because I live here but the same people you know Bill crystals like he's like an idiot no nationalism fascism okay got it got it built a guy who couldn't even run a small circulation magazine is like I'm in charge of American foreign policy think about what you're saying I mean it's like it's it's ridiculous and so there are many ridiculous people I'm ridiculous sometimes I get it I have a high tolerance for Ridiculousness it's the seriousness with which ludicrous people are taken that really scares me we have a big important country you can't allow dumb people to act stupidly without you know reacting to it it's like what uh it really freaks me out how mediocre our leadership class is not just that they're wrong but they're like low IQ it's like Bill crystal is considered an intellectual really on the basis of what what you know do you do you now deliberately uh organize your program to trigger their rage I mean for instance no no no I I don't I mean one thing I do do I I don't and by the way if I'm being honest you know I don't have a great sense of their rage because I don't you know I don't like the internet it hasn't made me smarter you know I really I make an affirmative effort to turn off all the garbage devices I don't own a TV but I have an iPad and a phone you know that's my whole Electronics right here and I turned that stuff off at night and I read books you know nothing nothing crazy but I read you know non-fiction books at night and so I don't I just don't like I don't think the internet has made us wiser or even better informed um and so I don't go on like social media I'm not on Twitter reading about myself or whatever so I don't really know did you like people say and I'm not that interested if if there's something important someone I love will tell me and I'll listen carefully but like what if David from is mad like I worked with David from for six years I know David from really well yeah David Frum is mad at me I mean fine you know what I mean I I don't care why would I care did you miss I hope you didn't miss uh sorry to move off global politics completely the reaction to your Eminem Eminem's segment on social media it's so funny you said it yeah I missed it completely and the only reason I know anything about it is because one of my producers called me today and said this morning and said let's do a follow-up on that Eminem segment which I wrote in and I'm not exaggerating like six minutes I mean it was nothing 80 words in that let's explain to British viewers what that was that uh that something happened with eminent one of the M Ms that it made them there was a certainly Eminem Eminem Mars the company that makes M M's which are in case you don't have them in the UK chocolate candies yeah I'm as you can probably tell I'm a big I love candy anyway so they come out and they're like okay our cartoon characters which have been a feature of our advertising for a long time and they're just like little round chocolate candies with legs um we have realized through some deep reflection that they're sexist and the female characters are wearing like sexy boots and now because women matter and women in leadership are so important we're going to put them in frumpy flat sold shoes and so like okay again I mean personally a supporter of the M M's company I mean I single-handedly keep their stock price high so I'm not against M Ms but I just made the point that like women can be in leadership and still wear sexy boots there's like nothing there's nothing inherently contradictory about that you can have women who are still feminine or whatever leading things and I just I was just mocking I was just mocking it I was just joking I mean I you know uh but apparently people got all got all exercised fine with me well I think from uh ethno nationalism to Candy I think we've we've covered quite a lot the thing is can I just say one thing I just always think this I do have some pretty far out views on a couple of different things but they're not related to anything political you know I have really strong views about nature or whatever um that are not mainstream views however my views on like race or sex or foreign policy or like completely moderate middle of the road you know 10 years ago My Views were not even interesting enough to mention yes and My Views really haven't changed so it's just so funny to be like this radical Putin apologist racist I'm more I'm much more conventional than that what is your most far out View I hate drywall I I really don't like a natural building materials I really believe in wood and I'm an extremist on the subject and I won't live in or spend any time in a room whose walls are covered with drywall which is like paper covered gypsum yeah and it's a very conventional Building Material because it's cheap and easy to install but it's disgusting and it's sucks the life out of you it's it's just innovating to be in a room covered with travel so I just won't you know I won't it's not more expensive to panel a room with say Pine boards like the one I'm in right now and so I do I'm not spending any time in a room with drywall or overhead lighting or anything fluorescent like why would I do that I I really believe in natural building materials Aesthetics are really important to me nature is really important to me and so I'm just not going to do it you know I'm never going to stay in like a hotel room if I can help it I don't I don't want you so um as you probably know that is your fascistic ethnic nationalism expressing yourselves well it's funny like I'm architecture really matters to me and when we were in Hungary last summer I gave a speech I never write anything down so she's giving a speech and I just launched into this thing about architecture because I really care about it and whatever it's not you know I like pretty architecture that elevates the human spirit and not sort of grotesque steel and glass architecture that crushes the human spirit I mean it's that simple it's not I have no complex or brilliant views on this at all they're very very normal views but I really really mean it so I give this speech and like David from what he said to me it's like oh he's Albert Speer he cares about architect uh Tucker Coulson thank you so much for coming on spectator TV thank you Freddie it's great to see you please come on again and uh yeah good luck with everything [Music] thank you [Music]

Channel: The Spectator

Views: 412,729

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Length: 25min 53sec (1553 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 24 2023