Anthony Bourdain - Our Last Full Interview | Fast Company

[Music] look uninhibited creative freedom is something that I've been incredibly fortunate to have for the better part of my entire television career unlike anyone else I know of in television I've been free to do whatever I want to make the shows I want anywhere I want with whom I want in any style I want so I at first I don't know any other way and by now I won't have it any other way life is good why settle for Less and by the same token when you're given that much freedom and you're you you have essentially no interference and nothing but support behind you what you don't want to do is get lazy and bored and sloppy to me I'd much rather not make TV at all or make even unsuccessful TV then make competent television you know it's very easy to make a conventional travel or Food Show at this point it's it's like shooting corn it's the same shot sequence and the same sort of limited terminology you know how all of their little pieces work where you have to start and where you have to end I detest competent workmen like storytelling and I'm always very you know the times that we we do that I'm very unhappy with that I'd rather I'd rather fail [Music] look to be perfectly honest most of the people I've met who's been in the television industry for a long time their greatest fear is that they will not be in the television industry next year that they'll say something or do something or make a decision that will be so unpopular that they will lose their gig and won't end up back on television again I don't have that fear you know i well i admit i i wouldn't particularly enjoy going back to cooking short order I know I can if I have to I'm pretty sure I could keep up on an omelet station be open to experience be willing to try new things don't have a rigid plan accept random acts of hospitality without judgment or fear don't be afraid to wander don't be afraid to eat a bad meal you know if you don't risk the bad meal you'll never get the magical one but are the most important you know be humble be grateful be aware of the fact that you were probably the stupidest person in the room as far as you are the least prepared at least equipped person to know who's really in charge of what's really going on Oh I think I made of maybe before I started traveling I thought that the human race is a whole or you know could it would turn on itself at any moment you know venal petty cruel arbitrary and it's true that all of those things exist in this world but I need mostly pretty nice people doing the best they can often under very very difficult conditions I met a lot of very nice people who've done very very bad things that conflict with my deeply held conceptions of justice sexual equality or acceptable practice or religious use a lot of gray areas and travel but I think that on balance the world is filled with people doing the best they can you know who love their kids and you know would like to attend you know put on a clean shirt every morning and live their lives in the little dignity and have access to food and water I hope just like everybody else so no I've been fired many times Mike in my cooking career I've been fired a number of times I was not a particularly good chef I had a lot of problems at various points in my career with narcotics I was very deservedly fired on a number of occasions but I mean if you're talking about failure though you know I accepted failure as a chef because I was at various times a bad chef or even a bad person these days if I fail it's because I tried to do something and did not succeed or I I just was not able to do what I hope to do or wanted to do or maybe I tried to do something that is clearly in retrospect didn't work but I would much rather that I would much rather fail gloriously then not venture not try I'm not in as I said before I'm not interested in incompetent making telling telling stories with with competence I'm looking to tell them with some style and originality and some creativity that is interesting to me and the people I work with and there have been times that that that has resulted in failure meaning it didn't work they've been communicate anything like what I wanted too often the story I think I'm gonna get ends up being another story entirely that's even better we're very different that's good but there are other times ready to fail miserably you know I tried to do with Sicily shell again and it was not good they've not captured the place it did not didn't show us anything of value it did not live up to its the subtlety and beauty of its subject including powerful women storytellers for instance that is a that is something in which the show has lacked frequently it's something that where we consciously try to do better at but but it's also something that we fail at you know if you see a show that's all men talking that's not a tendency or a predilection on my part it's it's a failure it means for whatever reason we failed to find or convince women in a particular country where often culturally that's difficult but it's no excuse to to open up to us I think that's something we fell out probably more regularly regrettably than anything else and then there were there are shows where you know some people are just gonna hate it they just don't like the style they think it's self-indulgent they don't get it but that's kind of failure I like you know a powerful reaction one way or the other infinitely preferable to me than pleasing everybody if ever if I walk in a room where everybody agrees with me I find that frightening and dismay and and boring as [ __ ] look I think in a lot of ways I think the answer to that question my answer that question stems from my history is an addict a lot of other addicts looked in the mirror everyday and did not see somebody worth saving even at my worst there was a level of vanity I guess I looked in the mirror and saw somebody who somebody deep in there regardless of how low I was by circumstances I had a high enough opinion of myself that I thought it's worth going forward I think a lot of people in a similar situation for whatever reason look in the mirror and see somebody that unworthy of good things and allow themselves or excuse a downward spiral because they don't really believe in their basic work I did you know so that's vanity I think it's the same Drive that allows me to tell stories in books and on TV because let's face it anybody who writes a book or goes on TV with the notion that they have a story worth telling that people might want to listen to you're really already by definition now a sort of an aberrant personality and a monster of self regard this is a very a reasonable attitude I have a unique I have a story that you will want to listen to for 10 minutes why would any reasonable I might make a living doing that some you might even want to pay for that story to the point that I could make a living doing that rather than washing dishes or preparing meals that's not normal that takes something and I don't know whether that's you know that's often very much at odds with with you know being a functioning well-rounded good person in the conventional sense that kind of vanity narcissism self regard self-importance and and cheerful willingness to examine your and share your feelings you know I think Brad Leibovitz said at one point you know you know if you're if you're sharing your feelings you know that's not sharing that's leaking my big break came when a woman in Karen Rinaldi who was an editor at Bloomsbury USA read an article that I had written for I two big breaks one I wrote a short piece and tending it for free paper in New York all of New York Press and they intended to publish it I was told but he kept bumping in week after week after week in a moment of hubris I listened to my mom's completely unreasonable suggestion that I send it to the New Yorker New Yorker calls it says we're running your story will buying your story they ran it that was a huge break for me because within 48 hours of editor at the Bloomsbury listen him Karen Rinaldi had read the article and commissioned me for the staggeringly high price of $50,000 to write a book and when that book came out it was immediately a best-seller and it changed my life overnight overnight I mean I was desperately in debt I hadn't paid my rent in time ever owed had owed Amex for 10 years without making a single payment owed the IRS hadn't even filed it was in very very very insecure place at age 44 suddenly people were offering me things and offering me opportunities and I think if I did I was old enough and I [ __ ] up enough already that I just said you know I realized this is a lucky break it was a lot unlikely to get another so I made very careful choices in that environment was very determined to not [ __ ] up I didn't go for easy money I didn't grab the first thing I did not give Food Network the show they wanted and I said no a lot to what seemed like a lot of money [Music] well look what's good for you in the short run is not necessarily good for you in a long run you know you're starting out as a writer you've written one book and somebody you got a TV show and somebody offers you a million dollars to you know represent an anti diarrhea medication well that's a lot of money in the short run but you're always gonna be that guy with the shit's you know that's a life sentence hey it's diarrhea guy yeah very we're all movie fans we're all people who understand that we're lucky that the degree of freedom that we have to do what we want shoot what we want everybody on my crew understands that if they have an idea like I'd like to tell this story backwards or I'd like to shoot this entire show an entire episode on a cell phone or black and white or a Panavision or 16-millimeter film let's make that happen I will support that and and I work thankfully in an environment where the people around me will support that so to the extent that it is possible for everybody to be creatively satisfied and try the things they always wanted to try we're all in that together you know but you know you have to have you work with me and most of the people I work with him work with me for a very long time I mean some of the shooters on my shelve it would mean 15 years Kristen Lydia who owns 0.0 the production company there were my original camera people on my first show for Food Network is to walk backwards together on their honey in front of me with these little Panasonic cameras like minefields in Cambodia just them still with them I've never made really never any television with anybody else gotta have a sense of humor gotta love movies got to know you cinematographers because if I you know start talking about Vittorio Storaro you don't know who the [ __ ] I'm talking about we're gonna have a problem and you don't work hard you don't have to give a pep talk everybody understands that we all expect of each other to do our best work every episode to be different to be more outrageous to be different and to be better and the people who take that talent seriously do well on my show and stick around and the ones who turn in competent work do not because I am [ __ ] competent work well as a chef yes many many times have I gone you know I am I do not do the hire I am I am not the person I don't enjoy firing people but I would not hesitate to do so but I will go to the woman who is the executive producer of the entire series is in charge of hiring and firing I will not hesitate to go to her and sit down and say you know Paulie follow you I don't want to see him no more you know he needs a little ride out in a little Meadowlands this guy you know and this this jerk-off here is not gonna work out or this lazy there's lazy or I just don't like them I did just something creepy about him you know they're they're not funny they've got some annoying personal tick well that's okay but if it's just pedestrian competent playbooks stuff everybody understands that that's not what we do and after a few of those shows you were we either reassigned or take it out to the Meadowlands it's get the shovel we burn through people to their look it's hard if you're on the road as much as these crews are and working under conditions weather conditions and law and order conditions and living conditions like they do 12 14 15 hours a day Paul and equipment around that that wears on some people over time editors really great talented editors you know sitting there looking at a screen of me shoving food in my face you know for six years under the kind of pressure we put on editors to show us something dazzling every time people do burnout they just they just think they burnout and very reasonably reach point where they've had enough and it starts to show in their work and they might find themselves reassigned to one of our many other fine shows that the production company does sort of a private joke it's like if you start screwing up on my show is it you like hunting you like camping no no everybody knows thing you know if I if I come to you say you like camping hunting it's like that you understand I am displeased [Music] are you curious like early form I've admittedly I have very contradictory impulses here I'm I'm old school in a lot of ways I think you should at least know how to make a beef bourguignon correctly according to the original recipe to the degree that anything can be authentic you should know how to you know some dishes to me like cacio e pepe or a you know traditional Italian pastas I get really pissy if people riff on them you know you put chicken in a carbonara you lost me it's unforgivable sin against God but on the other hand you know you know they're guys that came out of blues and R&B who turned out to be Jimi Hendrix you know there are people who can riff on and improvise on classics and create whole new wonderful worlds and what is authentic is mostly meaningless anyone and it the tomato is not authentic Italian I mean it came from the new world Chinese food is always evolving so it's protective and instinctively hostile to new as I can be I know too many really creative chefs and I understand the changing world is it pleasurable I guess is the benchmark for me if you're gonna mess with a classic are you making something more dazzling that says look at me and how smart I am or are you in some way improving it is it pleasurable he's a chicken Caesar more pleasurable than a plain Caesar I think not I think the chicken takes away but that's my opinion you know Caesar salad who out what is how authentic how old's me that's not it's a modern creation the nacho the Caesar salad they're both well one is Mexican the other isn't the nacho a Mexican so it's a question I wrestle with a lot on the show by instinct I'm old school particularly when it comes to pasta and sushi I don't think God wants you to put cream cheese on sushi or mayonnaise on sushi ever ever and some and there are a few food crimes that I just think a beer and a beatin is in order yeah I'm a list-maker I'm relentlessly pathologically a punctual I think I think that comes from all those years as a chef that is a more importantly as a cook you know can you shut up late as a cook you're letting your people down in a very tangible way somebody else has to physically do the work do the setup or you lose the shift or you get fired as a chef cooks who showed up late who are disorganized and couldn't keep a lot of stuff going on in their heads they failed and when they fell we all went down with them so I am a relentlessly you know possibly even unhealthily you know anal-retentive of you know obsessive compulsive you know clean up after my when I'm cooking I'm cleaning up after myself constantly keep things organized I write lists I keep my schedule up-to-date I am never late and as part of that if I say to you I'm gonna meet you tomorrow at you know 12 minutes after 5:00 to see John wick 7 I will be there at you know 502 hanging out across the street discreetly observing the scene what time you show up and I'll be making some very important decisions based on your arrival time I'll be back it's a it's a curse and a blessing but I think everything important I ever learned I learned I learned is that there's a dishwasher and there's a cook you show up on time you organize you get you well you know you stay organized you clean up after yourself you think about the people you work with you respect the people you work with and like I said you do the best you can you

Channel: Fast Company

Views: 2,407,192

Rating: 4.8969598 out of 5

Keywords: fast company, anthony bourdain, CNN Parts Unknown, parts unknown, parts unknown final season, anthony bourdain japan, anthony bourdain iran, anthony bourdain india, anthony bourdain sushi, food, travel

Id: vUEFdWAKpf0

Length: 24min 41sec (1481 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 08 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/Buffarrow]

I miss this man so fucking much.

[u/bohemiangreeneye]

For those that work the industry, he was so relatable. Miss him terribly

[u/Denver_DidYouDoThis]

Thank you for sharing - I never tire.

[u/9oldenb0y]

I watched this interview today coincidentally. Great man