Answering Atheists!! (Audio)..Heated Debate!! Ravi Zacharias at his best!!!

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we're at six one four two nine two eight five one three well Ravi in your book a shattered visage the real face of atheism you will durant and he says the greatest question of our time is not communism versus individualism not Europe versus America not even the East versus West it is whether man can live without God what's your answer to that question I think in a sense that's almost been demonstrated Fred as some of the great political tensions of years gone by have been mitigated at least a lot more people are on the talking table and so on but you've got about six billion people in the world and pluralism is a reality and there's a tremendous infusion from all parts of the world and most of the two-thirds world has a firm religious belief whatever that belief is where the one talks about Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism or Sikhism and that those cultures pouring into the West now and a change is taking place the North American North America is gonna have to face up to the issue not only as it sees parol ISM but as it sees the bankruptcy of secularization and all the agony that it has brought about with our breakup of homes with the violence on the streets with the emptiness and the lives of our young people the question is ironically on the heels of about 25 to 30 years of this tremendous idea of no ethics no morality gonna be taught we're gonna do it on our own our society is falling apart that was the question but but let me let me we were talking before the show and as I mentioned to you looking at the title of your book the real face of atheism a shattered visage some of the most ethical some of the finest people I know the most compassionate the highest people were the highest ideals I know are atheists absolutely no one has ever said that they are not the question is there is no rationally compelling reason for them to be ethical that's the first point and the second point is how did you even arrive at the conclusion that it is ethical to be ethical where is the point of reference well I can't answer for an atheist where that point of reference is but perhaps in their hearts they found it necessary to be ethical to treat people compassionately without reference to of electrum the rational point of view of a person comes to the opposite conclusion out to debate between the two to just say out of my heart that was Bertrand Russell's position he operated on the base of emotivism and failing and no matter how lofty it signs it's an irrational position Fred and that's what I'm saying but Lydon but it is our heart the finest place to find our sense of ethics well what about the Nazi regime they found it in their hearts to and ironically they hang there their philosophy on Darwinism that's what Hitler said in mine Kumpf if nature determines that this affair is going to obliterate the inferior then why not humanity to Darwin himself saw this coming Stephen Hawking one of the greatest scientists alive says his greatest fear is that if our philosophies extrapolated from naturalism that's where we go but but what about the the devastation of the Inquisition and the Crusades and they found it in their heart and in their Christian belief to murder exactly that's the point I'm raising with you but fun fundamental difference first of all let's get the facts straight when you deal with the havoc that atheism is wrecked and I'm not trying to be polemic here let's just be factual when you deal with the havoc that play theism is raised just through Hitler and so Mao Zedong and so Stalin and Lenin the numbers are infinitely more than any religious wars have ever produced in Los Angeles County alone in one year we kill more than in 15 years in Northern Ireland number one point number two point is this those who in the name of God in the name of Christ did bring about violence fred reason not to tell you and me it was the illogical outworking of christ's teaching it had nothing to do with jesus christ it had to do their own political operatives yeah but let me finish but the Atheist it is a logical outworking of man being the measure of all things because nobody knows which men well I would say this in terms of numbers if we compare the number of people killed by atheists to the number of people killed by Christians or other theists I don't know how many numbers we come up with millions on each side I'm very sure I figure we have three million we have three million Native American Indians killed by mostly Christian believers in the United States how many more Africans killed in the slave trade but I think what you're saying is true it doesn't have anything to do with true Christian belief for example story he'll ignore does it have anything to do with the compassionate atheism it does it has a may not have anything to the compassionate atheist read but is the logical outworking of atheism theism basically makes man the measure of all things and the question is which men which person is going to arbitrate between right and wrong it sounds very noble but if as Muggeridge said if god is dead somebody's gonna have to take his place and see the megalomania or erotomania the drive for power of the drive for pleasure the clenched fist of the phallus Hitler or Hugh Hefner how about you heard about my heart I found out I couldn't trust it until I turned it over to Christ you couldn't know sir because all human beings however laudable then notice can be ultimately what's wrong with your heart and mine is that it needs redemption and that's what Jesus Christ taught and I was raised in a country where there are 330 million deities in the pantheon of just one religion and it is a transformation that Christ brings to the human heart that our answer is going to lie and if our modern society merica as Arnold Toynbee would rather mind is the first culture that's trying to build its whole system of right and wrong apart from a moral point of reference and now you're it's revealing its bankruptcy here Robbie what do you think that in terms of the you say you couldn't trust your heart until you turned it over to Jesus Christ what about the Buddha what about Hinduism are they are these religions which you find worthy and estimable and and worthy of a hearts attention very very good question first of all Buddhism is an atheistic religion it's not a it's not a theistic religion Hinduism is not monolithic it boy it has swings between pantheism on once and theism on the other here's the best statement I can give to you all religions are often assumed to be fundamentally the same and superficially different I would propose it's exactly the opposite at best they are superficially the same and fundamentally different but beyond that there are many good things spread in many of the religions of the world there are many good things and many of the philanthropic philosophies of the world but the culmination of truth has Christ presented himself came in the in Jesus Christ himself now the question is not whether you and I like it or not the question is whether you already spoke at this truth or not and by definition truth is exclusive what what am I to make of the fact Ravi that you tell me that the culmination of religious belief and is Jesus Christ but if I were to have an Islamic spoke person sitting here or a or a Buddhist they wouldn't agree with you at all and they'd be equally sincere exactly and by the way I do a lot of my work overseas I was in Egypt Jordan Bahrain in two weeks ago I have been invited by many Islamic universities many Islamic countries I'm one of the few Western based evangelist that's even been a apologist even been into Syria the that's a vitally important point but the argument has to settle down in the fact that sincerity alone does not determine truth hardly in an academic arena if all I told my professor of science or history that I was very sincere about my dates it's too bad you gave me a zero because he's got a point by which to measure it so what we do fred is in a very cordial dialogical fashion we speak with the highest ranking philosophers of these worldviews and if one were to draw a line between these I think you would see the error where some of the other religious systems while they may assert truth you can see where the breakdown comes I think Christianity when the tests of truth are put is the only system that coherently brings the answers to the four fundamental questions of life origin meaning morality and destiny and correspondingly in each case will measure up to the truth hear us I know you come at this from the point of view of a scientist and I want to turn to you in just a moment here we're at a two nine two eight five one three my speakers are from the Veritas forum which is being held here on campus this week and we're a two nine two eight five one three Norbert joins us on news eight twenty nine you got something very near and dear to my heart the bane of mankind let me preface my remarks by stating that man does not need God God needs men but in order to exist God needs man okay now the thing is your two guests there you mentioned Pat Robertson was a very sinister week an evil person who is doing his best to establish a theocracy in this country we just now defeated his henchmen in the Northwest area running running for a scoreboard and they'll be coming back of course to disrupt the school but we didn't disrupt them first of all this is metaphysical nonsense it's total stupidity religion there's nothing more than a menace the station of man's social existence secondly let me put this to you real clear if you want to win a battle here if you want people to accept you educated people most people are being a becoming more educated in the sciences you have to quit this crap okay just metaphysical crap this mythological stuff for the thread stand for me but let me point out something to you here do you come up in people's world here's all you set yourself in competition with sighs you just simply cannot do that you're gonna have to you can perform a function sure but you're gonna have to surrender your clean the knowledge while emphasizing a moral function and that's the only way you're gonna survive nobody buys this flip flop and crap anymore and I've had it with all of you people so get off of it okay thanks for it thank you over there in a fear he responds I'll be glad for you to pick it up but thank you sir for calling I appreciate your candor let me just make one comment if all religious views sociologically conditions so is yours and thereby self negating but go ahead you it's your turn yes because I think your concern is the scientific credibility of the Christian faith then you may have some misconceptions about what evangelical Christianity is above with respect to the science the book I just brought out deals with the recent measurements astronomers have performed on the universe and what we discovered by those measurements is that the equations of general relativity correctly described the dynamics of the universe I mean you solve those equations of general relativity that places the cause of a cosmos outside independent of length width fight time matter and energy that by definition establishes that there's a some entity that brought the universe into existence in a transcendent fashion of all the religions of the world the Bible is the only book the only holy book that teaches that doctrine about creation we can push it one step further astronomers today can measure 25 separate characteristics of the universe each of those characteristics reveals itself to be highly fine-tuned the slightest variation in any of those characteristics means that it'd be impossible for the universe to support life at any time in its history not just like as we know if life by any possible when you move to the solar system the list goes up to 39 characteristics of must be fine-tuned the degree of fine-tuning that we measure is hundreds of trillions of times greater than several the parameters and the very best that we human beings can achieve but all of our education technology and money what does that tell us about the Creator he must be personal because only a person can design to that degree of fine tuning us he must be much more creative and intelligent than we are and some of the characteristics even reveal care and love for example the mass of the universe must be exquisitely fine-tuned to get the right elements for life chemistry that tells us that the Creator cares so much for the human species that he was prepared to build a hundred billion trillion stars and carefully shape and craft those hundred billion trillion stars for billions of years so if his brief moment in time we could all have a nice place to live now it's submit that establishes not only his personality but his care and his love for the human species so if you you would maintain that there is scientific evidence for the existence of God exactly so in that sense you cannot deny that Christianity is a rational faith that means based on objective evidence that serve I were to compare the different religions of the world all except Christianity encourage you to base your faith on subjective evidences the Bible alone stands apart and saying nothing is to be believed until it's first tested and proven it encourages to look at objective evidences history and science to establish its credibility did the scientific evidence in your estimation tell you anything about Christianity being particularly rewarding or the one true religion or does it say anything about it at all well what you see in the record of nature is the testimony of simplicity beauty elegance and harmony in just that observation this scientists make about the record of nature tells us something about the character the entity is responsible for that you know and I looked at the holy books of the religions of the world what I wanted to see is that there was some record that had that same testimony as simplicity beauty elegance and harmony and I found that in the Bible I did not find that in the other holy book you did not find that in the Quran for example well like in the Quran what you see is a testimony of a communication the frustration is how much of the Quran you have to read to see something specifically enough state and that you can actually subject it to the tests but you do find a few things that he work hard enough and what you see are statements that are inconsistent with the record of nature in the record of history you know I felt that if God was behind it he's not going to make mistakes like that is your conclusion then that God is particularly behind Christianity as opposed to other religions particularly behind it the record we see in the Bible is free of those contradictions and errors mm-hmm from worthington unusually 20 hello Terry yeah hi I'm interested in one of the comments your guests made about contradictions mm-hmm and how you said that the Bible does not contain contradictions I never said that but I'll be glad to stand by it I'm not sure are you referring when you say the Bible are you referring to the Old Testament yes you're not referring to the New Testament and the New Testament both and the fact that the New Testament contains three completely separate descriptions of the crucifixion which are all different in account and in location doesn't seem to you to be a contradiction no because what you have are three accounts and three different perspectives neither of which is complete each giving a partial picture of what took place you can piece the three together and there's no inconsistency okay so you're saying that the fact that they take place is separate different locations is not interested well it's like three witnesses to a car accident in three different locations and who and and those are the words of witnesses to the crucifixion right so those are not the inspired words of God no they are the inspired Word of God but that's inspired through human writers where there's their style of writing is preserved so if it's see if it's the inspired Word of God inspired you're human writers and if the people who believe in the Quran believe that theirs is the inspired Word of God through human writers and the fact that the Quran is not literally or creatively as consistent to you doesn't sound inconsistent well let me give you an example the three Gospels you're speaking of all testify that Jesus was killed upon the cross yes they do but well the Islamic faith says that didn't happen well okay so there's a difference neither does the Jewish faith however the Jewish faith is the is a faith from which the Old Testament spring well let me give you an example of how you can put that to the test you can say well let's look at what the historians at the time had to say about the death of Jesus of Nazareth is it consistent with what the Muslims believe or is it consistent with what the Christians believe that's an excellent point and I'm really glad you brought that up because what historians say from the research that I have done which I would say is rather extensive is that death by crucifixion took between three and five days it did not take a few hours and the fact that from all descriptions of the crucifixion that it only took Jesus a few hours to die on the cross to me is extraordinarily suspect since it took most people up to three days to die on the cross you look at the testimony of the eyewitnesses what happened to Jesus of Nazareth before he was placed on the property you yourself have said that all three eyewitnesses have told contradictory reports so why no I didn't say contradictory reporters why don't you name the con first of all we are terribly terribly confused in your analogy between the Quran and the Bible you possibly don't understand he made mention that the writers of the Quran there is no right there are no writers of the Quran the Quran was revealed to Muhammad and the only miracle claimed by Islam is the Quran now you have to understand this very clearly if the only authenticating source is a particular book Muhammad has performed no miracles in the Quran as you are aware and no extra Quranic miracles the only miracle in Islam is the Quran which means if the Quran is turned out to be flawed then there is nothing Nawrocki about it there is an intrinsic failure within the sole authentication number to your positioning of the statement that the average person took three days and nobody died before that is categorically false well I said the average death on the cross well then the fact of the matter is some could die less than that right then that one of Christ's well that that's not my my question okay well then let's so now you have to please stay committed to Cardinal errors and Assumption in your presentation let's go to the final one now would you name the contradictions for us in between the three gospel writers in us mentioned the location read the passages from the three four may please and we'll go over at four you have well then you are making an allegation without the evidence in front of you and I think you have to admit that's not fair we're on the air for another several minutes why don't you go and get the Bible I would say if I'm speaking with people who are biblical scholar yeah you don't but I do i I don't understand what you mean by the contradiction because in my Bible I don't see it's two different locations I'll see that they're a different location absolutely not fiction that in one he's crucified in a garden and another he's crucified in a public place on a hill no it never never does it say he was crucified in a garden pouring we have to break for News Terry thank you for calling it I've been to that garden alright we will be back with our guests after two minutes of news from the Associated Press on news8 21st of oh hello love it yes you're in the air thank you let me just say first of all that Christianity is defined by so many different groups we have Methodist we have Catholicism we have Baptist and so on and they're all correct in their own minds and their own hearts and they all think that they're absolutely right that bothers me because if there is one religion the Christian religion is the only true one how do you select which one of truth the thing though that I'm really appalled by is the fact that this is not a Christian nation as the Christian Judeo nation and to say that you're an atheist if you don't believe in Jesus Christ now I was born and raised as a Christian I don't go to church because I don't believe in the church and what it stands for you hear so many contradictions about what is right and what is wrong what is good and what is evil and so on I'm just appalled that intelligent well-educated people would people to clubs make a statement that this is the only true religion or if you don't believe in it you're an atheist and appalling now respond to that thank you for calling Paula first of all your point is correct not believing in Christ does not make one ifs of facto an atheist an atheist is one who says there is no God all right so we agree on that an atheist one is one who posits the non-existence of God which means naturalism matter time plus matter plus chances all that we have to go on now once we admit them the reality that there is a God then that brings a second line of questioning how do we know which which system is true and unless we use our minds intelligently to decide that there is no way of arriving at an answer and as dr. Ross so clearly pointed out earlier on the message in the scriptures is very clear test these things because otherwise you get waylaid and seduced into all wrong beliefs now the third part of the question was that Christianity is not moral I think it is quite divided up and so on yes that is so but so are there many other interpretations of other factors things that we also know to be true for example even if you take a very simple statement on any issue politically or whatever there may be some position that states the situation correctly but there are many who would differ on opinions on what to accent watch to emphasize and unfortunately one of the things that's happened in denominations is where the teaching of a particular individual is either put alongside Christ or supersedes or some little distinctive for which a certain division came about but may I say this too I was in Bahrain two weeks ago for the first time in their history all of the churches in the Kingdom of Bahrain all of them went together in the campaign we held and more and more you are seeing that what unites the Christian world is stronger than some of the things that nine that separate them with one particular difference I think we need to know this that in the Christian tradition and I agree with you that we are inheritors of a judeo-christian tradition but I don't think we're a judeo-christian nation I do think the judeo-christian tradition is here that the person and the work of Christ is what defines what Christianity is all about is he who he claims to be and did he accomplish what he said he did for us Billy Graham was recently in our town saw a tremendous surge of people from all different denominations and religions coming together and it's a one-shot deal it really is let's face it Chris Christianity was used to control people back in the days of Constantine sure and that's if for some reason people live their lives and do the things that they think are okay and then at their last moments they think maybe just in case there is a God I better be way a myself because in the days of constant you'll be punished yeah you made the point but follow please bear in mind that there is a difference between what Christianity is supposed to between what the Christian faith is supposed to be and what a care you cannot judge the Christ on the basis of a deviation from his teaching and that's an important distinction pardon me a week by what we are to judge it by what the scripture says are you not to judge it by what I say I am courage' to take the scriptures obviously you're either going to judge it by what I say about what you say the question is where's the authority but the moment you said people say this is the only way I am assuming that implicit in your argument is that the denial of the only way is the only way probably let me ask you this what does the scripture say we must judge it by this right there what does it say about abortion all right you're trying to if you move into a completely different arena the Scriptures make let me first set the parameters red because I think you need to look at this in two ways I wasn't even about one of the leading universities of which one may be Prince Oh mothers when a woman stood up earlier on and made a comment about the fact that she felt that God was immoral because he kills some and he saved some a plane crashed and were saved 20 died she said that's an immoral act of an arbitrary God a few minutes later she got up to defend her right to determine what to do the child that was in her room if she wanted it she was gonna have it if she didn't want it she was not gonna have it and she considered that to be her moral right so my question to her was when God plays God you consider him to be immoral when you want to play God you considered to be immoral right there's a violent contradiction in the abortion position now when euthanasia comes the person who wants to take a life says whose life is it anyway strange they don't ask the question when the abortion issue comes but having just made a poll on let me I mean please let me answer French here because I don't want to get off the topic here the important question is this God God has always defined life essentially not pragmatically Fred it is who we are not what we can do and the moment we start defining life pragmatically by what we can do you can be sure the time will come where the slippery slope will put people like you and me or anyone with disability than anyone else as a less desirable person to live God considers life absolutely sacred and the dignity of life valid that's why he respects your in your view Ravi the scripture says that abortion is wrong in my views life is sacred and therefore abortion is wrong always wrong it is always wrong in terms of the fact that a life is being taken now what you need to say is somebody might come into the room and say wait a minute I had to choose between my mom and my life or my child's life you have immediately raised an indication where you're now not choosing between what to do with the life arbitrarily or somebody comes in and says I've been raped by a by a rapist who's got there this kind of disease or whatever now you have introduced a new factor into that which I can understand poses tension for the individual but that's not the problem America's deciding that's not what the problem is centuries have had to deal with that we are now deciding whether we can remove a baby at whim it's got nothing to do with the indications and that's where I think we have started to play God and we'll pay the price for a designation role are one more from you you can read the Bible and you can interpret it in your way and someone else can do the same thing and interpret it in their own way and there is no right and no wrong it is not stated right or wrong use me I didn't interrupt you except the basic goodness of man and that does not have to be God driven it could be what you feel you want to be treated as and and the way you're gonna treat others has nothing to do with religion it has to do with the goodness of man and I do not believe that God driven Lola forgive me for interrupting and I'm sorry about that you're right that there is a goodness I am just saying to you that goodness has no point of reference apart from God the greatest philosophers from kick Igor to Kant to Hume to our modern-day ethicists have tried it and what you are seeing now and what I'm seeing now in America is because mankind has tried to define goodness himself or herself in fact as the famous Ephesus Iris Murdoch said that way the name of what we are calling good now had its incarnation a long time ago in the person of Lucifer the moment you make a statement nothing is either right or wrong you are assuming that statement is right and not wrong the moment you say there is a goodness in man you are choosing upon yourself to choose what is good and what is bad and all and millions of others may disagree with you I'm just saying to you if there is a creator which I believe there is if there's a moral lawgiver which I believe there is then his moral law has to be a point of reference not only do I need a point of reference I also need the strength to keep it our calling our speakers are from the very

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Channel: Sabbath Ministries

Views: 166,496

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Keywords: ravi zacharius, apologetics, GOD, jesus, RZIM ministries, answeing atheism, radio debate, best answers to atheism, sabbath ministries

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Length: 27min 42sec (1662 seconds)

Published: Mon Apr 02 2018

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