Andy Woods - Soteriology 02: Election and Free Will

did I give are on our website posted there now but tonight and I wanted to do this just to get it over with because it's a it's a it's one of those different very difficult topics it's one of the great mysteries of the Bible it's the whole subject of election versus free will and here we're trying to figure out do we choose God or does God choose us and my answer is yes as I'll show you so I'm going to try to talk till about 8:00 and then we'll open it up for questions and answers about eight o'clock so here we are having dealt with the definition of soteriology now we're getting into this whole subject of election and I'm not sure if I'll be able to finish all this tonight but we'll give it a good attempt we're gonna look at the definition and uses of the term election we're gonna try to understand election in the totality of God's character I'll show you the biblical case for divine sovereignty God chooses us and then I'll show you the case for human responsibility we choose God and I'll try to convince you that the Bible teaches both of these and then as time permits so I'm gonna try to steer us warn us about extremes people fall into on either side of this debate and so we'll try to stay away from those extremes as I as I warn you about it but it's a very delicate difficult subject for us for the finite human mind to wrap itself around but first of all definition and uses I got this definition from Charles Ryrie election is the action of God into zhing those who will be saved as members of the body of Christ and I'll show you the past is a little bit but at some point in eternity past God made a move towards you and towards me and decided to bless us with His grace now before we get into that particular issue of election one of the things to understand is that the concept of election God choosing us is all over the Bible it's a doctrine that's impossible to escape and you can take it from me for many years I tried to escape it because it didn't seem very American to me that God chooses some and not others so for example just to give you a few usages of this I hope you brought your Bible with you Deuteronomy 4 verse 37 this is how God dealt with the nation of Israel at the beginning of his program with Israel deuteronomy 437 it says of israel because he loved your fathers therefore he chose their descendants and after them the sentence after them so why didn't God use the Egyptians as his chosen nation why didn't he use the Phoenicians why didn't he use the Assyrians well you have to ask God about that because God made a choice to choose Israel as his instrument of blessing to the world well I know why God chose Israel because they're they're better at money Jews are they're smarter they've got more of their kids in medical school in law school no if you look at Deuteronomy 7 7 it says the Lord did not set his love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the other peoples for in fact you were the fewest so God did not choose the nation of Israel because of some quality in in them and this is basically what you call unconditional election election towards them without any condition in them as to why he chose them it's just something God in His sovereignty decided to do in the book of Isaiah chapter 45 verses one through four you learn about a guy named Cyrus Cyrus was God's instrument to release the children of Israel out of the Egyptian bondage excuse me not the Egyptian bondage the Babylonian captivity for 70 years and in Isaiah 45 verse 1 it says thus says the Lord to Cyrus his anointed and then down in verse 4 it says for the sake of Jacob my servant and Israel my chosen one I have called your name now this is 200 years before the man was born God called out through the writings of Isaiah the prophecies of Isaiah Cyrus and he said he is going to be my chosen instrument through which the nation of Israel is going to be released from the 70 year captivity and what's so interesting about this is to the best of our knowledge Cyrus was not even a believer because Isaiah 45 and verse 4 Cyrus a Persian it says this for the sake of my servant Jacob and Israel my chosen one I have called you by your name I have given you your title though you have not known me so this this man Cyrus had no personal relationship with the Lord at all and yet 200 years before the man was born God called his name and chose him as the instrument through which the nation would be released from the 70 year captivity Isaiah 42 verse 1 there Jesus as the branch is called the chosen one so God the Father chose God the Son to Praful fill his great role through his death on the cross at his resurrection from the dead I have to go through these verses fast I'm sorry for that Matthew 24:22 it talks about the elect for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short well who are the elect well in context it's the chosen ones in the tribulation period so there are believers in the tribulation period probably I would guess believing Jews and they are called the elect or the chosen of God and then if you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ what you'll discover is you are also the chosen of God that's the terminology that the Bible uses Colossians 3:2 would be an example of that and then also in the book of Titus chapter 1 and verse 1 it's sort of interesting to me that when the biblical New Testament writers talk about this subject of election they typically mention it right at the beginning of the book sometimes in the first verse and I find that interesting because we as evangelicals are kind of embarrassed by this doctrine but God's not Titus 1 1 it says Paul a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of those chosen of God and the foreknowledge of the truth which is in accordance with godliness so you see all these different usages of election and God choosing all over the scripture now one of the things that I got very troubled about as a very new Christian is I sat and studied this doctrine in isolation of everything else the Bible teaches about God so I sat and meditated and meditated and meditate on this doctrine without studying the totality of God's Word and I started to get a bitter spirit because I started to think what God is not fair and I would caution you against that when the doctrine of election or God's choosing is revealed in the Bible it's never revealed in isolation of his other attributes it's always brought forth in the totality of who God is for example take a look at Ephesians 1 verses 4 & 5 you know if your English teacher ever gets mad at you for run-on sentences just quote the Apostle Paul because Ephesians 4 really through 14 is one giant sentence in Greek it's what you call a massive run-on sentence and what the reason that significant is because as you look at verse 4 it says he chose us in him so there's his calling or choosing of us and then because this sentence is one giant sentence it's all linked to God's other attributes if you go down to the end of verse 4 you'll see love if you go towards the beginning of verse 6 you'll seek glory as you move into verse 11 you'll see according to his eternal purpose or his purpose so the way the Bible reveals the subject of election is it wants us to understand that God when he exercises this prerogative of choice does so in harmony with all of his other attributes and that's what I was missing as a new Christian where I was just focused on this one doctrine and becoming bitter against God because I didn't understand it all but now kind of in hindsight what I've learned to do when I don't understand something in the Bible or where something doesn't seem fair to me and there are things in the Bible that I don't understand and still don't seem fair to me at the end of the day I just rest in who he is and it's to the point now where I don't have to understand everything and kind of as you grow in Christ you know as a new Christian I used to want all the loose ends batten down but now growing in a knowledge of God's attributes I don't know if it's necessary that I understand everything because I know at the end of the day whether I understand God doing something or not God is a God of love and grace and mercy and he doesn't exercise this attribute or this prerogative of choosing independent of who he is I know this also at the end of the day that the Bible two times first Timothy 2:4 and 2nd Peter 3:9 both times it says who does God want saved the world everybody he desires that all should be saved and come to a knowledge of him and one of the verses you know that I go back to quite a bit and my personal walk with the Lord is the book of Isaiah chapter 55 and verses 8 and 9 whenever you find yourself frustrated with God you have to remember that your mind is just a little pea in comparison to an ocean and God knows things we don't know isaiah 55:8 9 God says for my thoughts are not your thoughts nor my ways your ways declare the Lord for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts so that's just an exhortation as we look at this controversial and difficult doctrine tonight to try to look at it in harmony with everything the scripture reveals about God that kind of makes that hard medicine go down a little bit easier I've discovered in personal experience so the concept of election has used many many places in the Bible as we have seen in many different ways and the scripture tasks us or invites us to examine this doctrine in harmony with God's total attributes so having said all that let me lay out the case for divine sovereignty and if you happen to believe in free will at the exclusion of divine sovereignty don't get mad at me quite yet because in a little bit I'll be laying out the case for free will and what I want to communicate to you is the Bible really teaches both of these ideas so let's take a look at divine sovereignty take a look at John 6 and verse 44 what do we mean by divine sovereignty what we mean is God chooses us and I'll show you scriptures for these points what what I'm talking about is a pre temporal choice pre temporal means ahead of time in other words before time existed God made a decision to unilaterally make a move of grace towards you it's a pre temporal choice of God as to who would be saved and the passing by of others this is as I tried to show you with God's working with Israel the way it's presented in the Bible I believe is its unconditional meaning God in eternity past didn't look at me and said well you know Andy I know you're gonna grow up and you're gonna become the pastor at Sugar Land Bible Church so I'll choose you because there's some kind of quality in you that's admirable no that would make God's choice of me conditional right conditioned in something in me and what I think the scripture teaches is an unconditional choice that he has made towards us now let me give you some verses that I think support this there are several in the Gospel of John John 6 verse 44 I'm going to give you some of the strongest divine sovereignty versus that I that I know of in the scripture John chapter 6 in verse 44 Jesus is speaking no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him now this word draw is ikuo and it's the same verb that's used in John 21 verse 6 I believe it is in verse 11 regarding the miraculous catch of fish remember what was happening they were dragging that's the word draw there they were dragging the fish into the boat with resistance so if the word has used the same way here in John 6:44 what God has done is he has drawn you to himself in fact if God did not exercise grace towards you and draw you to yourself you really couldn't come because Romans 3:11 says no no one seeks God Luke 19:10 says the son of son of man comes to seek and save that which is lost so I used to think you know as a new Christian I woke up one day and said you know today's the day I'm gonna get saved and in hindsight I realized what happened God set the whole thing up he put the right conversations together the right people in my path the right life experiences where I was spiritually seeking God searching for God and he was drawing me and what was I doing well I was like that catch of fish in a net I was resisting so people say well what role did we play in salvation well here's our role we resisted God you know we fought him and yet he and his compassion drew us to himself you'll see the same thing down in John 665 John chapter 6 verse 65 for this reason I have said to you that no one can come to me unless it has been granted from the Father John 6 vs. 69 and 70 we have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God jesus answered them that I myself not choose you the twelve and yet one of you is a devil so the Apostle said we made a choice towards you God and Jesus comes back and says I made a choice toward you before you made a choice towards me in take a look at John 15 verse 16 for a minute at the very beginning of Christ's ministry Jesus called the disciples and as you're going there I'm going to read to you Matthew 420 followers of men verse 20 of Matthew forces immediately they left their nets and followed him see how it's putting the action on their part so his ministry lasted Christ's ministry lasted about three years and at the beginning of the ministry they probably thought they chose Christ which they did they did choose him they left their nets and followed him then at the very end of Christ's ministry in the Upper Room three years have passed and Jesus pulls this whammy on him John 15 verse 16 you did not choose me but I chose you and appointed you and so forth so these disciples thought that they chose the Lord I'm not denying that they did but in reality what you discover is God did something for them to them and he made some kind of action towards them ahead of time Matthew 16 let's look at this real quick one day Peter had a thought Jesus said who two men say that I am Peter raised his hand well the Bible doesn't say he raised his hand but he gave the right answer Matthew chapter 16 and verse 15 he said to them but who do you say that I am Simon Peter answered you are the Christ the Son of the Living God now Peter probably thought that he had those thoughts all on his own initiative he was the smartest guy in the room right but then Jesus in verse 17 said to him blessed are you simon barjona because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but my father who was in heaven so Peter you just had the wonderful thought that you had because my father made some sort of move towards you and allowed you to have that particular thought see these are all verses you start putting these together and you see God is doing things in our past sometimes without even us being aware of them let's look at the book of Acts for a minute acts 13 and verse 48 this is a very strong sovereignty passage this is Paul's first missionary journey where tons and tons of Gentiles are getting saved when the Gentiles heard this they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord watch this and as many as had been appointed appointed to eternal life believed so it says a bunch of Gentiles believed praise God but part of the verse says they believed because they had been divinely appointed to believe very very strong sovereignty passage there take a look at Acts 1614 this is lydia paul's first con in Philip I normally Paul would go to the synagogue first but in Philip I there wasn't a synagogue so we went to a river I've actually stood by the river when I was in Israel a couple summers ago and he finds this woman named Lydia and this is Paul's first European convert and it's a description in acts 16 verse 14 how this woman got saved it says a woman named Lydia from the city of Thyatira a seller of purple fabrics a worshipper of God was listening and look at this the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul and that's how our conversion takes place Paul gives the message the Lord opens somebody's heart and the person whose heart is now open believes you've got to have all three of those things happening together a faithful proclamation of the message the Lord opening somebody's heart and then the person that's hearing the message responding by way of faith but you'll notice that had the Lord not opened her heart you get the idea that Lydia probably could not would not have ever believed of course the book of Romans is filled with this idea romans 8 verses 29 and 30 some verses we looked at last time for those whom he for no foreknew he also predestined to become conformed to the image of the son of god so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren and those whom he predestined he also called and those whom he called he also justified and those whom he also justified he also glorified now you'll notice that we believe and are justified and on our way to future glory but even before we believe so that we can be justified and one day glorified God has already done three things in the past towards us they are a foreknowledge of us they are a predestination of us they are a calling of us and we finally get into the act through human volition on step number four or three prior steps have already been executed by God in eternity past see that's a very strong sovereignty passage Grand Central Station of divine sovereignty is Romans nine so let's look at that just for a minute Romans 9 and verse 11 it's talking about Jacob and Esau in the womb of their mother for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad so that God's purpose according to his Joyce would stand not because of works but because of him who calls it was said to her the older will serve the younger now in the ancient Near East it never works that way the older never serves the younger the rights of the firstborn always go to the older and God says I'm about to switch things around here I'm about to give my favor not to the firstborn but to Jacob rather than Esau and as you go through the book of Genesis I think there are 11 times where this happens in other words God is saying I'm gonna do something transcultural here I'm gonna do something countercultural and it's not because one kid will end up being good and one kid will end up being bad or anything like that it says very clearly before either child in the lieu of their mother had done anything God made this choice towards Jacob and he passed over Esau and then verse 13 is very troubling just as it is written Jacob I loved but Esau I hate it now you that word hate it's not talking about emotional hatred when the word hate many times is used in the Bible it's talking about a non choice so for example in Luke 14 verse 26 it Jesus says the requirement of discipleship is to hate your mother and father well obviously we're not called as Christ's disciples to hate your parents because the fifth commandment is what honor your mother and father what he's saying is if you have to make a choice between mom and dad's will and God's will to be his disciple you choose God over parents that's what the whole concept of hatred means here God could not hate Esau because God so loved the world but at the same time this word hate is used we transport our 21st century understanding of the word back into the text but biblically it's talking about a non choice he chose one but not the other and as you go down to Romans 9 verse 20 it says so then he has mercy on whom He desires and hardens whom He desires and it's talking there about Pharaoh how God actually hardened Pharaoh's heart God used Pharaoh as an instrument of oppression of the Jewish people so that God could judge Pharaoh now when you look at that whole story you have to understand that Pharaoh in the book of Exodus hardened his own heart towards God I think about six times the exodus narrative says Pharaoh hardened his heart Pharaoh hardened his heart Pharaoh hardened his heart and finally it's kind of scary the way the Bible reads it says God hardened Pharaoh's heart in other words God finally in his sovereignty gave Pharaoh / - what Pharaoh already wanted to do but even though that's true that's still a divine a very strong divine sovereignty passage now Paul in Romans 9 anticipates an objection this isn't fair this is an American verse 20 says this on the contrary who are you oh man who answers back to God the thing molded will not say to the molder why did you make me like this you have to understand that us raising moral objections about how God runs his universe is like a piece of it's like a cup on a potter's wheel and the cup gets mad at the potter because the cup says to the the potter you know i don't want to be a cup i want to be a vase well that's none of your business whether you're a cup or your vase you are a piece of clay i'm the potter so that's sort of what we are like when we voice our objections against god and say god you're not fair god you're not doing things correctly god you're not right it's like a you know a little tiny person with limited intelligence and a corrupted human nature speaking against a perfectly righteous god who is omniscient omnipotent and omnipresent so we have to really look at our motives when we get into this position of challenging god revelation 13:8 and it says the same thing in revelation 17:8 makes a very interesting statement revelation 13:8 talks about beast worshippers in the tribulation period it says all who dwell on the earth will worship Him everyone's name everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of the Lamb who was slain so people in the Tribulation Period are making a decision to reject Jesus and worship the Antichrist and then what we discover in Revelation 13:8 and revelation 17:8 is the reason they're making that decision is because their names were never written in the lame book of life to begin with now this concept of election is true of specific individuals for example notice the Book of Jeremiah chapter 1 verses 4 & 5 it's a description of why Jeremiah ended up becoming a prophet why did Jeremiah end up becoming a prophet Jeremiah 1 verses 4 and 5 explains it now the word of the Lord came to me saying before I formed you in the womb I knew you and before you were born in other words before Jeremiah did anything good or bad I consecrated you I have appointed you as a prophet to the nation's so why did Jeremiah become a prophet I mean did he have the right skills and the temperament to become a prophet did he visit a career guidance counselor and the career guidance counselor said you know you'd be a heck of a prophet know Jeremiah became a prophet because God made a move towards him in that direction before he was even born and this is also true with the Apostle Paul why did the Apostle Paul become an apostle notice Galatians 1 verses 15 and 16 says the same thing in the New Testament Galatians 1 verses 15 and 16 but when God who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace was pleased to reveal his son in me that I might preach him among the Gentiles I did not consult with flesh and blood why did Paul end up becoming a prophet because he was chosen for that position from his mother's womb see this these are all sovereign two passages ax9 verses 15 and 16 talks about how Paul would bear Christ's name before the Gentiles so Peter is the apostle to the Jews Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles well maybe those two got upset one day hey I want to maybe Peter says I want to be the apostle to the Gentiles Paul says I want to be the apostle to the Jews well that's not a decision for you to make that decision has already been made by God in eternity past other examples of this is Romans 16 13 where Rufus is called a choice or chosen man in the Lord and then in 2nd John you have a church meeting in a woman's house why is it meeting in her house because 2nd John 1 and 2nd John 13 says she is a chosen lady she's called the elect lady so sometimes this choosing of God involves individuals sometimes it involves entire groups of people as is the case in 1st Peter chapter 1 and verses 1 & 2 it says Peter an apostle of Jesus Christ to those who reside as aliens scattered throughout Pontus Galatia Cappadocia Asia - eeeh who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of the Father by the sanctifying work of the spirit and so forth there it's talking about a group of people they're what we call north-central Turkey mentions the places of geography pontus both ania Asia Cappadocia Galatia and that whole region of people believers in that entire region are believers because they are chosen in God and sometimes this choosing of God also involves a decision as to who will be passed over for example you take Judis John 13 and verse 18 why is it that Judas ended up being the betrayer of Christ why not Matthew why not some other why not John why not some other apostle Jesus says this of Judas I did not speak of all of you I know the ones I have chosen but is that the scripture may be fulfilled he who eats my bread has lifted up his heel against me now you'll notice that that's a quotation from the Psalms the Psalms were written a thousand years in advance thousand years in advance Judas's life read like a script because that's the way God set it up romans 9 and verse 22 is another example of God passing by some Romans 9 verse 22 says what if God although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known endured with much patience the vessels of Wrath watch this prepared for destruction speaking thereof Pharaoh and how God actually prepared Pharaoh as an instrument of destruction another very strong passage on sovereignty is 1st Peter 2 and verse 8 every time I read this I shudder first Peter 2 and verse 8 speaking of the Jews stumbling over Christ it says for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word and to this doom they were also appointed so they tripped over Christ stumbled over him and yet first Peter 2:8 says they were appointed to trip or to stumble sometimes the choosing of God includes our good works Jeremiah was chosen as a prophet Paul was chosen as an apostle Galatians 1 acts 9 and the works that you and I walk in as God's people are also part of God's predestined plan notice Ephesians 2 verses 8 and 9 we all know Ephesians 2 verses 8 and 9 for by grace we are saved through faith it's not of works lest any man should boast but then look at verse 10 for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we would walk in them why did I become the pastor of circle and Bible Church it's a good work that God prepared beforehand why are you sitting in this class it's a good work that God prepared beforehand see you you it's as uncomfortable as this doctrine is it's biblically to my mind impossible to escape it yet as much as everything I have said is accurate and true there's something else that's true the Bible teaches equally the reality of human responsibility it teaches the idea of free will and just as many passages I produced on divine sovereignty I could equally produce just as much many passages on free will for example Genesis 15 and verse 6 as a speaking of Abram then he that's Abram believed in the Lord and he reckoned it to him as righteousness why did Abram believe because he believed that passage other verses may say it but that passage says absolutely nothing about God making some sort of moved towards Abram it's narrating the passage from the human point of view we all know John 3:16 right for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever whosoever that's that's a pretty big group isn't it whosoever that who was over what believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life nothing in there about you receive life because God chose you other passages may say that but this one says we receive life because we make a decision through human volition and human will to believe in the Lord acts 16 verses 30 and 31 this is the Philippian jailer asking life's most important questions sirs what must I do to be saved they said believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved they put that would be Paul and Silas put the onus back on the Philippian jailer and said you exercise your volition and will and believe acts 17 and verse 30 this is Paul on Mars Hill had the chance in Greece to stand on Mars Hill where Paul most likely gave this address he gets to the very end of it speaking now to unbelieving Gentiles and he says therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent in the course we're going to be spending a lot of time on the word repent so don't worry about it now the short answer is it means change of mind what he's saying is you change your mind about Jesus nothing here about God overriding their free will or their minds he puts the onus on them to exercise their volition and to change their minds about Jesus Christ and of course at the very end of the Bible revelation 22 in verse 17 makes a tremendous statement about human free will and it says the spirit and the bride say come and let the one who hears come and let the one who is thirsty come let the one who wishes to take the water of life without cost so who can come and have their thirst quenched through what Jesus provides whoever wants it so there that verse clearly is placing the ledger on free will something else that I think helps us with this whole issue of free will is understanding that we as human beings our image bears of God that is what God said about Adam and Eve our forebears going all the way back to Genesis 1 verses 26 and 27 it says very clearly that God created them male and female in his own image well what does that mean to be made in God's image what it means is we share in God's communicable attributes there are certain attributes that God has that we share in we don't share in all his attributes or else he wouldn't be God right he's got to have some attributes exclusive to him like omniscience all-knowing omnipotence all power omnipresence everywhere at the same time but at the same time there are many attributes that I share with God and one of the things I share with God is a free will that's what being an image bear is and that explains why God in Genesis 2 verses 16 and 17 put a tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden you're asked that question just get that tree out of there and if that tree is gone then they can't rebel and all of the trouble we've been ever since can't happen right there the answer to that is there has to be a tree of knowledge in Eden if there is no tree of knowledge in Eden then people really don't have a choice a choice means you have to have an avenue for rebellion should you choose to go that direction and if that choice was not there God would not be respecting how he made Adam and Eve in his own image now people say well that's just pre-fall post-fall it's different we have no choice in the post-fall world may I just remind you that the fall never erased our image bearing status the theologians like to use this expression our image bearing status has been effaced by the fall but not erased Genesis 9:6 that's post flood that's long after the fall calls man in women his image bears James 3 9 New Testament calls us also made in God's likeness so even in our fallen state we still retain this dignity as image bearers and therefore God when he orchestrates salvation has to factor in the free will of individuals if that free will is not factored in then God would not be respecting how he has made us in His image so my point that I'm really trying to get at is the Bible as best I can tell teaches both doctrines teaches divine sovereignty and at the same time it teaches human free will election or God's choosing of us does not obliterate human free will or human responsibility somehow in God these two ideas exist and the foolishness that we put our cell as we try to understand this this is coming from a source of knowledge that's outside of time he's infinite to God who is timeless these types of contradictions don't exist as we wrestle with with these things from a time-bound perspective we see an obvious contradiction but that's because we're looking at it from the human point of view not necessarily from the divine point of view so back to that Judas passage John 13 verse 18 did Judas exercised his free will to betray Christ yes he did but at the same time the moment he exercised his free will to betray Christ what he did was predicted in the Psalms written a thousand years in advance so somehow God used the free will of Judas to execute a plan written a thousand years in advance and only God who can pull something like that off acts 2:23 is one of my favorite verses because in the same verse you'll see both statements for knowledge and human choice so who killed Christ Peter on the day of Pentecost says this man Jesus was delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God you speaking to the Jews nailed to the cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death who killed Christ well the first part of the verse says God the Father killed Christ because it was part of a predetermined plan you keep reading through the same verse and then Peter says you unbelieving Jews kill Christ putting the onus on human responsibility so both doctrines are there within the span of a single verse so the danger is using election to somehow obliterate free will or using free will to some how obliterate election and that's why there's this great struggle in the body of Christ one camp says one thing another camp says a different thing and they're all gravitating towards their favorite verses and throwing them against their adversaries like ice not like a snowball fight when in reality both doctrines are accurate it just depends on what part of the bible you happen to be reading and any given time charles wiry and his survey of bible doctrine says this there are unsaved elect people alive today though the elect are now lost and will not be saved until they believe so what he's saying there is election does not in the mind of god override the human responsibility to believe both concepts are there a wonderful title to a book on this whole thing is by Norman Geisler and I love the title chosen but free because it's expressing both ideas we are chosen in God but at the same time to arrive us get us to arrive at that place God did not override our free will and something else that's very helpful to me as I think about this is illustration Harry Ironside gave to a prior generation he says you're walking into heaven and there's a door and on the outside the door reads this all who will enter here and you walk through the door and then you look back on the other side of the wall and there's another sign that says welcome you who are chosen from the foundation of the world something else that's helped me with this is the husband-and-wife analogy or are we not called the Bride of Christ or the bride he is the groom now when you got married did you choose your spouse or did your spouse choose you I hope the answer is both or you might need marital counseling I mean I did what I could to get Anne's attention I put on the full-court press but the and she's up there laughing but the fact of the matter is I can woo her all I wanted but she had to make some kind of decision towards me see and this is how it is in our relationship with God he Woo's us and he works but he is not going to override your decision to believe in him any more than you would want to marry someone who has made no decision towards you and people you know when you talk too much about free will people get a little nervous and they say well you know aren't you overriding God's sovereignty and I find there's a particular segment in the body of Christ that's so eager to protect God's sovereignty that they don't want to allow any freewill whatsoever the fact of the matter is God can use the free moral choices of his creatures to accomplish his sovereign will that's what he did with Judas now that does not shrink God to my mind that enlarges god that makes me want to throughout the ages glorify God all the more that he can use rebellious or good choices on the part of people that are free decision wise to execute his plan one last thing to talk about here is the extremes to avoid here's some extremes to avoid in this whole discussion number one using one set of texts to rewrite another set of texts people on the sovereignty side of the equation get so into the sovereignty of God that they use a lot of the verses that we went over to override free will and they'll develop a doctrine that goes something like this you can't believe on your own God has to believe for you and the doctrine of this is regeneration precedes faith faith is a gift and when you question them why they hold to this particular doctrine when I really can't find it taught anywhere in the Bible it's all a desire to protect the sovereignty of God John 16 and verse 9 describes what the Holy Spirit does prior to our salvation he comes to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment verse 9 says sin because they do not believe in me what does the Holy Spirit do with the unbeliever he does not override their free will he does not believe for them he does not regenerate them so that they can believe regeneration is the result of faith not the cause of it as I'll be showing you later on in the course what the Holy Spirit does is he convicts us of our need to believe and if God were to suddenly override our free will other than just conviction and annoying us and bothering us he wouldn't be respecting us as image bears of God and so what people all of the time say is faith is a gift in fact this was in our circle and Bible Church doctrinal statement the founders of the church didn't put this in but some folks got unto the elder board over the course of time that had a very strong sovereignty persuasion and there was a statement in there for a while that faith is actually a gift of God and fortunately our elders to their credit when I presented them with the biblical evidence took that statement out and returned it back to the way it originally read but people say faith is a gift and they like to quote Ephesians 2 verses 8 and 9 for by grace you have been saved through faith that is not of yourselves it is the gift of God not as a result of works lest any man should boast there it is faith is a gift the problem is faith is a feminine noun gift is a in Greek the genders if one is modifying the other have to line up faith is not the gift the gift is the result of the faith which is salvation that's the gift but God does not give you the gift of faith he does not regenerate you so that you can believe so that would be an example of using one group of text to rewrite another now people on the freewill side of the equation do the same thing and I've heard this argument for years and basically what people say is well God has seen the movie he knows how it's all going to turn out and he picks winners so God knew that I would trust Christ so therefore God picked me because he knew and the pat in the past corridors of time that I would be a winner and I would pick Christ well you see that makes God's choosing of me not unconditional but what conditioned on something that's the name for this is the presense view pre-knowledge view science meaning knowledge and so what people like to say is for those whom he foreknew he predestined and called and justified and glorified and they loved to camp on foreknew the word there is Pro ganache Co and what they think that means is God through omniscience knew that I would pick Christ so God picked me because God seen the movie that's their understanding of foreknowledge the problem with that is the same word pro-gun Oska that's used in Romans 8:29 is also used in Romans 11 to Romans 11 to is a description of God's program with the nation of Israel and everybody you know agrees that God chose Israel not because he saw in the end that they would choose him but he chose them unilaterally unconditionally so I think the presense view is reading something into for no that that is foreign to the teachings of the Apostle Paul so avoid the extremes and then one more extreme to avoid is don't use election to remove human responsibility William Carey famous missionary wanted to go and evangelize the heathen and he came from a strong Reformed background and when he expressed this desire to his theology teacher his professor said young man sit down if God wants to reach the heathen he will do it without your help or mine so what happened in that case is foreknowledge was camped on to such a degree that it was used to rewrite or to remove our human responsibility to evangelize the Lost we as God's people are responsible to preach the gospel to every creature we do not preach the gospel just to the elect for the simple reason that people don't have an e for a elect stamped on their forehead I don't know who they are my job is to just get the gospel and your job is to get the gospel to everyone so with the subject of election we have to understand there's things God does and there's things we do this business of foreknowledge and choosing and all of these things that God does the Bible reveals these things but it never tells us to worry about these things just know that God is working you on the other hand get down to business and fulfill your own responsibility and the danger is using election to remove the responsibilities that we all have for example how many Puritans do you know yeah someone so and so and so move down down the street very nice Puritan couple well who are the Puritans the Puritans were those that came from Europe they built in America a city on a shining hill they founded the Ivy League they are the ones that build a Christian civilization on these shores on the East Coast beginning on the East Coast and within a couple of generations they lost the whole thing have you been to the Ivy League lately about its pagan as you can get what happened to these people how can you build a shining city on a hill and then lose control of the whole thing the answer is when you get into Puritan writings they camped so heavily on election and foreknowledge that slowly what started to happen is they were using that as an excuse not to evangelize in fact the Puritans in some cases would not even evangelize their own children and so they went defunct they disappeared that's an example of what can happen in this area of extremes so God has his part we have our part and anytime someone is using a section of the Bible in a way that's getting you to escape responsibility you know you've gone to an extreme you know that the doctrine is being abused and in another doctrine the return of Christ that's what was happening in second Thessalonians 3 with the Thessalonians and the return of Christ and Paul had taught them the imminent return of Christ that Christ can come back at any minute so they said well Christ can come back in any minute what's the point in paying my mortgage what's the point in putting my kids through college what's the point of holding down a job and you go through second Thessalonians 3 and you find Paul telling the Thessalonians need to start exercising church discipline on these people because they are abused a doctrine to get out of basic life's responsibilities that is the great fear that we are extreme we can be pushed into so we can actually use this doctrine to escape the realities that God wants us to fulfill so all things being said let God do his thing don't try to rewrite the doctrine and pretend it's not there recognizers attention in the bible election and free will are difficult concepts to grasp and comprehend and while we may be wrestling with these things and may not understand them all I do understand this much I know what I'm supposed to do which is to preach the gospel to all creatures there's no ambiguity there right no debate they're so tried to give you some balance on the subject a lot of the presentations you get because the speaker's trying to prove something one-sided yeah there you get kind of presentations that are lopsided I've done my very best to present balance so we've looked at the definition and uses of election looking at election in the totality of God's character we've looked at the case for divine sovereignty we've looked at the case for human responsibility we've looked at this fact that the Bible really teaches both of these ideas and then we've looked at some extremes to stay away from such as using one set of text to rewrite another or using election as a way to escape responsibility so next time we'll take a look at the doctrine of the atonement so at this time all stop talking and those that need to pick up their kids are free to do so and we can ask some questions at this point any questions I can't answer Richard will answer them for us yeah uh-huh you

Channel: Andy Woods' Unofficial Channel

Views: 8,866

Rating: 4.8730159 out of 5

Keywords: andy woods, osas, once saved always saved, eternal security, soteriology, chafer, election, calvinism, predestination

Id: 5FCNTtgoGAQ

Length: 65min 25sec (3925 seconds)

Published: Tue May 21 2019