Andy Stanley - Full Uncut Interview

my guest today is an author a masterful communicator and one of the most influential pastors of our time Andy Stanley thanks for joining us on 100 Huntley hey I'm happy to be back actually my second time yeah it's been a long time yeah okay so as I'm doing research I find out that you once wanted to become a journalist as it's true yeah I was a journalism major at Georgia State University I wanted to write I didn't know about you know back then journalism was so different yeah but yeah so I was a journalism major journalism major and I think it really helped me understand journalism in general people you know journalists get a really bad rap and I always respond I say look journalism's like ministry in that it attracts a certain kind of person a certain kind of personality and journalists are trained to be critical thinkers so they're critical because that's the role of journalism in our society and we need that so I'm you know I'm all for journalists regardless of their you know political persuasion or really anything else so and then it changed to being a rock star you want to be a rock star there was no major for that in college there was I majored in music for about 15 minutes and I realized as I was surrounded by mega talented people in downtown Atlanta that that probably wasn't going to be much of a career path for me but yeah for a while that's what I wanted to do I love music but everybody loves music right and everybody can play three chords and sing well enough to think hey I got what it takes so what did your dad say when you told him you want to become a rock star well I never told him right yeah yes that was that was an area of disagreement throughout my childhood from about middle school through the end of high school so I came to I came to my senses he says that I came to his senses but yeah it worked out and eventually he became a pastor your dad gave you a try on you know at his church yeah tell me about what it is about ministering and being a pastor that drew you to this profession yeah well my story is I never felt called to ministry had friends who I don't know they felt called a ministry they go forward during a service my would get him up in front the church and say this so-and-so feels called a ministry and for me I just loved the local church and loved being involved and volunteering and I worked for our media ministry for a while and so one day my dad and I were driving and I said dad does a person have to be called a ministry or can they just volunteer and he said he said well I guess you could you could just volunteer and I said well I would like to volunteer for ministry so that was my big you know my big call no great story no flashing lights just so volunteered a ministry but ministry to what what didn't matter it didn't matter to me I didn't want to be a pastor necessarily I didn't want to be a preacher I never spoken I wasn't you know I just loved the local church so like everybody else generally I just tried out things found things that I felt like I was pretty good at and then I was teaching a Bible study at a woman's home that was our first time to be in this home it was high school students like 12 high school students I would drive and they'd sit on the floor and I played guitar and I was worship leader textured the whole thing yeah the Pied Piper and after I spoke she'd never heard me before again I'm just a living room in her kitchen standing there she said and it was I was the second year college she said you really have a gift for communication and I still remember that and it was a it really was kind of a defining moment like okay you know somebody else recognizing something and speaking into it I I needed to hear that and so that that was a big deal so yeah Here I am I've been talking ever since did you ever feel like you had to fit into Charles Stanley shoes no and because he never pressured me in that direction the first time I preached for him its church downtown and I work I work for after seminary I came back and worked for him for 10 years that's the student pastor and he would let me fill in for him and just gave me free rein we he'd allowed me to do creative things he allowed me to move the pulpit introduced some creative elements used music a little bit differently and you know looking back it was a big risk I mean he was big name big responsibility big reputation and he entrusted me with it so I I just have him to thank for and my mom was super creative she was a musician and an artist so um yeah he never so I never felt any pressure to you know you know walk in his footsteps so and we we laugh about that to this day yeah you went through a time of disagreement with your dad what are some lessons that you learned through that time that chapter in your life yeah in my book deep and wide the second chapter the really the first and second chapter but that second chapter I always tell pastors who are raising kids who are now gonna be preachers kids whether they thought about that or not when they became a preacher and when their wives decided to marry them I always say you should read chapter two of my book even if you don't buy the book borrow it because it's our story and I have heard from so many pastors who work for their dads or who grew up in there - shadow or worked you know with their father and then left that there are a lot of similarities and in terms of lessons that the greatest lesson was really what he modeled because we had some major disagreements and he would call memin we to the point where it was hard for us to talk you know but he would call me and say let's go have lunch let's go have lunch and he's of the generation that you know if you're disloyal or you know you don't tow the line you know you're kind of out and he just resent that is in him and I've seen him respond that way to other people but he resisted that with me and one time we were talking actually one time we're at a Mexican food restaurant and we're and we're not talking we're just sitting there trying to talk yeah you were in the room or at the table and it was just so awkward and he said he said Andy you and I have been doing this long enough to know what happens to fathers and sons if they aren't willing to work things out and I don't want that to happen to us it was like well I didn't either but did you know hear him say that that was that was huge so yeah they were you just don't ever give up on relationships ever there's just you just don't that's what grace is and our Heavenly Father never gave up on us who are we to ever give on anybody I mean that's sort of the essence of the gospel so we work through it and while we've had lots of good time since then he's spoken here I've spoken for him and it's it's a great story it actually you know ends up with a bow on it so not every story does and now you're sitting we are sitting in this huge auditorium this beautiful building you're the pastor of one of the largest churches did you I'm just thinking back at that woman saying you're a great communicator and that's sticking with you and volunteering to some sort of ministry and now you're a pastor for thousands and you know I listen to your podcast I know many people who do does that boggle your mind when you scan here on a Sunday you know everybody does what I do respond to that maybe a little differently honestly the pressure I feel is always six days away five days away four days away every Sunday and just about every Sunday I'm responsible to get up in front of a group of people that I've been talking to in some cases for twenty three twenty five thirty years because there's kids that grew up on my student ministry that are adults with their own kids that are here and to get up on Sundays with something fresh inspirational and practical to say that pressure so overwhelms all the other pressure or all the other sense of wow look what I've done I just don't think about it you know the joke for me is you know here comes Sunday here comes Sunday here comes Sunday and I have a friend who's a mentor who has encourages me constantly or consistently he'll say Andy you've got to stop and look back every once in a while and remember what God has done not to keep me from worrying his concern is it's like you're not enjoying this journey I mean this is a fabulous thing and I'm like I know it's fabulous but see here here comes Sunday you know I've got to be ready so I think that I'm that constant pressure is a good thing years ago my dad called me he was 80 so he's 86 now so almost six years ago he said I'm you know what I would like I said what's that dad he said I would like to find a past he said I would like to find a pastor who's a little bit further ahead of me and ask them some questions I said dad there aren't any you're at the front of the line I mean he's still the senior pastor of his church now at 86 I said dad you know I just kind of laughed like I don't think there's anyone to ask and then I said well what would you ask this ask them if you could and he said I would ask them that when it comes to preaching does it ever get any easier and I thought you know how discouraging that is to me you know 26 years behind you but his point was and I got this from him that when you take the teaching and preaching responsibility seriously it is such a heavy burden and a heavy mantle to bear that again if you really want to come with something fresh and you really care about people and not just what people think and you really care about people's lives and their futures their decisions what they're doing with their children their bodies it's such a big deal that you just can't mail it in you can't do a brown and serve you just can't pull something out of a file that you've done before and so he still feels that weight at 86 he starts studying on Monday after Sunday when he preaches and I think I got that from him and I do think that keeps us focused and it keeps us from allowing our success to go to our heads because success is every seven days and you know being faithful to what God called me to do it's it is a constant healthy burden I've heard you say that you still see yourself as a local pastor at the end of the day yeah you're responsible for these people that are here I that's exactly what I feel I I mean I love the fact that we're doing television and podcast and all the media stuff is very exciting my team could tell you I give it so little attention that it drives them crazy sometimes because I'm still sitting in meetings deciding about our student ministry in our middle school ministry and structure and organization and oh we lost a parking deck and we've got to find parking you know the the day-to-day the blocking and tackling of pastoring the local church I like that that's you know if I'm a duck that's that's my water that's what I lean into so I'm grateful for the influence I didn't try for it go for it didn't have a plan it just kind of happened and I'm grateful I want to be a good steward of it but at the end of the day the local church is where it's at and you know all this all this goes away but you know when I'm gone when we're gone the church goes on so to invest my life in the local church I just feel like is the best investment of my life let's go back to the previous thought and as he talked about this stage that you're given globally with that comes a lot of criticism and so how do you respond to criticism well the good news is I grew up with a dad that received so much criticism that when I was in the eighth grade I actually saw someone slug him in the jaw punched him in the jaw yeah in church I mean he was standing beside the pulpit and this guy so you know that kind of marks you you realized the church is worth living for dying for suffering for yeah I saw him go through so many things and you know his his motto is a you know obey God and leave all the consequences to him obey God leave all the consequences to him is his grandfather told him he said Charles if God tells you to you know run your head through a brick wall you just start running and trust God to make a hole and that's how he has lived and so you know he listens and he you know listen you know he's somewhat of a consensus-builder when it comes to decisions but when he's sure this is what God wants him to do then you just go and you know I picked up a little bit on that and so when I'm confident this is what we need to do the criticisms interesting I always learn from it I always try to respond to my critics because I'm I certainly don't have the corner on the market of always being right and so yeah that's just part of it and the thing for me as long as I'm being criticized by Christians I'm okay with that I don't want to ever lose my influence with people outside the faith and so the Sandra and I my wife and I sometimes will say well the good news is they're already going to heaven the good news is they're already going to heaven it's like they're not happy but you know what there and we'll work that out later I just don't want to give up influence with the people that I'm most concerned about influencing which really are not the people in the church it's people who've left church and the people who would really like to come back in if somebody would just create an on-ramp and some of the lower rungs back on the ladder so that's what motivates me and that's what we try to do so that brings us to irresistible which has received some criticism I love the story at the beginning of this woman in China who recognizes you and asks you such a poignant question which is the thread throughout all of this yeah yeah and this is a true story I have witnesses it was my son and I another gentleman and his son and then the two or three people in the factory so for people who read the book it sounds like a made-up story it that's exactly how it happened so yes so we toured a factory owned by an American in outside of Beijing like way outside of Beijing I think we we drove for about three hours to this particular town that I should not name and after the tour the guy who owns the factory asked if we had any questions and this young lady had been shadowing us she was working her way off the floor into management and so when he said does anyone have a question she said I do which was unusual because he was asking us if we had questions about the tour and he said sure what's your question and she she turns to me and she said are you a pastor and now we're in China yeah we're in China so is this a trick question is that you know are we on our way out is that hey we need your passport and I said I am and she said I recognize your voice and then she said how good is good enough which was the name of a little book I wrote years ago but before that I had done a message series called how good is good enough and someone somehow she ended up with a CD of that sermon put her faith in Christ listen to it over and over and hurt and over and recognized my voice and then she said I have another question she asked her boss can I ask another question he said sure now this is all through well she had no she had she could speak a little bit of English and her question was pastor Stanley why doesn't everybody in America go to church why doesn't everybody in America go to church and I understood the question because I had been there long enough to understand a little bit of the context and as I asked her questions there was no church in her community she had to take a bus it was part of a network Church Americans call these underground churches a non-registered Church so it was a little bit you know the further away you are from Beijing apparently the easier it is to find one of those Network churches so here's a young woman who would be at church every night if the door was open every Sunday for sure and when somehow she discovered that there are churches everywhere in America that are empty and that most Americans don't go to church she just didn't have a category for that and that question has bothered me ever since in a good way she's risking her life yes right she had a hard time finding a Bible any kind of network of Christian friends was difficult and then again of course we take it for granted we have it's like anything you have too much effort to take it for granted after a while so yeah that was that kind of rattled me why doesn't everybody in America go to church and so that's how I start the book and it goes from there yeah so as you know as we journey through this and I guess my first question is who were you imagining as you were writing this book that is a great question that's a really good question I was imagining two people not I was imagining the person I want to read this book and I was imagining the person that I wanted the person reading this book to be concerned about and the person I imagined reading this book is somebody in their 30s probably or 40s who grew up in somewhat with somewhat of a traditional understanding of the narrative of Scripture who grew up assuming that if the Bible says it I believe it and the reason we believe it is because it's in the Bible which I address in the book and I've gotten some criticism for that who's who's apologetic for their faith goes no further than well the Bible is the Word of God and that's all I need which once upon a time was pretty much all anybody needed and then the internet came along and now skeptics have access to every middle school high schools college student 24 hours a day you don't have to buy a ticket to see a debate it's all there all the misinformation think of this you don't have to own a Bible or even touch a Bible to find out what is in the Bible or what else is in the Bible there friends say it again Google's our friend yeah exactly so I'm thinking about the person who is going to hold onto faith for the rest of their life but has lost an on-ramp for their son their grandson their granddaughter that our niece their nephew the next generation that comes back with questions that they're not prepared to answer and they're going to resort to but the Bible is the Word of God and the Bible says that I believe it and that settles it because as I explained especially toward the end of the book the foundation of our faith is not a text and I understand why this makes people nervous anybody who start when people start talking about the Bible and new and unusual ways everybody should sit up straight and pay attention and be nervous alone that but the point I make is that the foundation of our faith was the event of the resurrection and I certainly didn't make this up the Apostle Paul said if Jesus wasn't raised from the dead game over our faith in our preaching is all in vain so it's not nothing's original with me in fact when it comes to theology my goal is to never be original so so in the book I make the point that it is time for us to shift our attention and shift in society and in the marketplace the spotlight off the Bible and onto the resurrection because our faith is most defensible when we are defending an event that's documented in the Gospels the book of James and the writings of Paul none of this is new I learned this in seminary 38 years ago from dr. Norman Geisler who wrote the book inerrancy so there's no conflict between holding to the view of inerrancy or infallibility of Scripture and what I'm talking about but it feels like there's a tension there which I understand that's why that's why the books 300 pages long I I felt like I needed to back way and build a case for who I wanted to take people because the goal is not to get people to have a different view of Scripture it's to think about the scripture within a broader context of faith so that's the first person I'm trying to convince the average evangelical to change their thinking and to change their terminology for the sake of the next generation not for their faith they're fine they're in and then that second audience is that college student especially or that young adult who because because who because of something in the Bible or about the Bible left the faith they just couldn't as I've heard so many times I read I just couldn't believe it anymore it's not that I didn't want to I mean nobody wants to give up the faith of their childhood there's no win in that I just couldn't hang on anymore and when I asked my pastor when I asked my parent or my grandfather all I got was the Bible says the Bible says and I know what else the Bible says because as every pastor will admit if they're forced to we don't preach and teach everything in the Bible and it's not that we don't value it I think it's God breathed it's that you know we're trying to give people handles on how to live their lives so students college students now have access to all those other things and all you need is one person to give them a different narrative as to where the Bible came from and if they're trying to walk away from faith anyway or they're leaning in that direction they're gone so I this book hopefully and in fact I know this is the case because I've gotten so much positive feedback this book is intended as an on-ramp or a back on ramp for the person that's like I would love to come back but I can't come back to the version of Christianity I left I can't come back to that version is there an alternative version and what I've said in the book is this is not a new version this is the original version this is the version that birthed this movement in the beginning it was birthed by men and women who had not read something but who had seen something a resurrected Savior so that's sort of the story arc so I started you know it's funny people think I don't believe the Old Testament anybody who's read the book I start with Abraham and we walk through the entire Old Testament because the power and the beauty of the story that leads to the birth of Jesus I mean that in and of itself is an apologetic for our faith that all of these things fit together and led to this grand conclusion when for God so loved the world that finally after years of waiting he gave his only son so those are the two people I have in mind I'm gonna read a part of page 92 and you can respond because I think this is a part of and I'm glad to hear there's been good oh yes great poking book well good well as you can tell by my ABS yeah so you say on page 92 I'm convinced our current versions of the Christian faith we need to be stripped of a variety of old tests or Old Covenant leftovers this has nothing to do with expressions of worshippers style old is blended with new in modern traditional liturgical churches we are dragged along a litany of Old Covenant concepts and assumptions that slow us down divide us up and confuse those standing on the outside peering in and it's that last group I'm most concerned about right so what's your question I just want you to expand on that yeah I think that's a part of exactly what you said people are criticizing you and thinking that you are throwing away the old test yes that would yes and I'm glad in it's interesting that when you read it you almost said Old Testament instead of old yeah and this is very important because within the Old Testament is the covenant that God established with Israel and so starting in Exodus through Malachi that entire story arc and all of that history and all the prophets that all of that fits into a covenant that God had with ancient Israel that he does not have with me or he does not have with you but most people growing up in church that's not how they got their Bible we've got our Bible all mapped and wrapped and it all came together but and then and I tell people if you want to understand the Old Testament way of thinking just read Deuteronomy 28 that's the most important chapter maybe in the whole Old Testament as it relates to understanding both sides of this because the Deuteronomy 28 Moses reminds the people before they go into the Promised Land here's the deal God's gonna give you this land but if you misbehave he's gonna kick you out put you in timeout because he's going to do something through you for the world so this is bigger than you you are a means to a grand and glorious end so here's the rules and keep the rules and if you do I'm gonna bless you it's gonna rain your crops are gonna grow your babies are gonna grow you're gonna be victorious in battle if you disobey me I'm gonna take the land away I'm gonna take you out of the land now here's your land now this was a perfect contract it was a perfect covenant because God was building a nation but when we as new covenant people dip into that covenant and pick out the parts that we like or that suit our purposes and bring them over into the new covenant things get very very confusing so as I say in the book God's covenant with the nation of Israel established through Moses was perfect it was perfect for what God was accomplishing but on the night before his arrest and the night of his arrest Jesus said I am establishing a brand new covenant and here's how extreme he made it and again we read right past this he took the most sacred meal that a Jew could have Passover they these boys had celebrated this their whole life and he says now from now on for your whole life you have taken Passover to commemorate the death angel passing over the houses that had the blood of the Lamb on the doors your whole life this is what Passover meant from now on think we can't even imagine how dramatic this was from now on when you celebrate this meal you think about me well there I can't even think of a way to make the statement more clear that the Old Covenant has come to an end we're going to take the most sacred meal associated with that covenant and we're gonna give it brand new meaning and not just for Jewish people for the world so the Old Covenant came to an end it was designed to end when Jesus came and Jesus inaugurated a new covenant for the whole world so that handoff and that transition is so important in terms of understanding the Old Testament and the New Testament and again as children no one explains that to us we're just given our Bible it's God's Word it's infallible inerrant whatever word our denomination or tribe uses just don't set your coffee on top of it you know and again most people respect it they don't read it and as you know most Christians read the Bible devotionally said a little bit of Proverbs a little bit of Jesus a little bit of David a little bit of Revelation you know they pop you know all over the place which hey that's fine if we understand the story art and the story art is what leads to the last part of the book which is the apologetic which is our faith does not rise and fall on Genesis our faith doesn't rise or fall on God's covenant with Israel our faith rises and falls on that first Easter morning when there were no believers and no followers and the tomb was empty and later they had breakfast with their resurrected Savior on the beach and it all began and the world has never been the same sense so Andy how should we read the Old Testament it the way I just described it and in the book as you know if you've read the book I've given lots of tips and hints and because it's it's it's powerful it's gritty it's God at work in the in the world it's violent it's bloody it's and I mean our tendency because of the way we've been given the Bible is we want to make God's activity in the Old Testament fit with the Sermon on the Mount love your enemies and your Testaments like I don't see a lot of enemy love you know going on well it speak it's not because it was two different gods and God didn't change the covenants changed it's a brand new covenant but to get to the new we had to go through the history of the old so we read the Old Testament in light of God's faithfulness to his people God is a God that keeps his promises God is a God that doesn't come through for the individual sometimes it looks like but he comes through eventually that Abraham did not see the fulfillment of the promise God gave him but that didn't mean God broke his promise God shows up in the midst of our pain and our anxiety and our conflict God comes through I mean it goes on and on and on so what but what we can't do is take the promises that God gave to Israel and sanitize them and kind of dust them off in 21st century them and somehow make them fit with Jesus and make it all blend together now Christians do that all the time and I don't think there's any great harm done necessarily but again my concern is not for the people who are in my concern is for the people who are trying to come back or the people who the the whole gossip the gospel is so muddy and muddled for them based on Christians doing all kind of crazy things based on their understanding of the Bible because they don't understand the sequence of these covenants so again that's that's my concern that's why I wrote the book and I really hope it's a tool for people not only to rethink their faith but to know how to then talk to administer to people outside the faith right there's also the word obsolete yeah in the book yeah and referring to the writer of Hebrews and the idea that obsolete was used do you want to expound on that and just yes I think if the average evangelical pastor got up and quoted those verses in Hebrews without telling people they were in the Bible they may lose their job but it is right there the old the the this sermon really that we call the book of Hebrews written to Jewish Christians is written by a Jewish person who says that covenant that you grew up on is obsolete and out dated ouch I know which means and I said this in the book which means one of the authors of the Bible said part of the Bible is obsolete and outdated now there are people watching this interview that think I'm making that up they've never seen those verses but it's so consistent with what Paul taught it's so consistent with the Sermon on the Mount and it's so consistent with the fact that an exodus when God established this covenant with with Israel through Moses clearly it was with a specific group of people for a specific period of time so it's not inconsistent it's a reminder if this is good news that we have a better covenant as the author of Hebrews says with better promises so in the book I say why would you reach back to an inferior covenant with inferior promises when God has given you a better covenant with better promises in the Old Testament when you send there were all kinds of Hoops you had to jump through to have your sin atoned for or covered in the New Testament and I love this quote by Philip Yancey he's God took a big risk by announcing forgiveness ahead of time at the cross forgiveness of all of our sin was announced ahead of time ahead of our sin sin has been that pronounced forgiven that's an amazing thing that is not the Old Testaments not the Old Covenant promise so again it's sequential it makes perfect sense it's powerful and of course there will always be a place for every part of the Old Testament and the Old Covenant within the Old Testament in our Christian preaching and teaching and application but again understand in the context is is very important so you know I mean I became a Christian when I was in university and so a little bit older and reading the Bible and and and you're right the foundation of the old testament and devotionals and so forth so when I was reading this book it did make me feel very uncomfortable I like I go to a church now that would say yes we agree with a lot of what you say so when you are writing this and when you're hearing the criticism of people think when you use that word obviously even if it is in the Bible like this is just hard for us to digest right what has been your response a part of that a part of you know what you're saying now when you're talking to pastors what is the the feedback that you're getting from these pastors are saying this is almost Andy you're you're stepping on heresy here your your step no I've been called a heretic and privately not publicly I always say every Church reformer started as a heretic just remember that Martin Luther John fad that's the first time I've said it out loud in an interview so you know everybody cuz I'm not claiming to be a reformer I'm not trying really this is so not about me and none of this is original with me and I mean there this has been said by so many people so many times but unfortunately these conversations oftentimes get buried in theological context so I'm trying to bring what I think every Christian should understand about their own faith to light now I'll tell you what the there's a fear there's a fear behind a lot of the criticism and I'll just state it the fear is and again we haven't gotten to this part of the book because in the book I argue that when Jesus gave his new command and every Christian is familiar with this and the upper or not the approval they're having their Passover meal he says to his guys this is I give you a new command I give you ok first of all only God can give commands but they'd already seen Jesus do things that only God could do so okay we're following you a new command I give you and they were thinking okay so this is another one we have 613 so this is number 614 or you've already reduced 613 - to love God and love your neighbor so maybe now there's three and I'm convinced and I this is where you know I kind of part ways with a lot of people but I'm fine if people disagree but I'm absolutely convinced on that night that new command represented the terms and conditions of the brand new covenant just as 613 commands that included moral law civil law dietary law were part of God's covenant with Israel on the night that he took Passover and said from now on Passover's about me not Egypt which was again there'd be like me making Christmas about my birthday not Jesus that's what it would be like even it would be even worse what he did unless it was true on that night when he said a new command I give you you're to love one another and then he qualified it you are to love one another the way that I have loved you I'm convinced that is the single marching order of Jesus followers that's it we don't need Ten Commandments we don't need 613 commandments the moment I decide to follow Jesus and that I'm going to treat people the way God through Christ treated me that's all I need now when I say that people get very nervous and I understand it's like well what about and people just gonna run amuck and people are gonna just be immoral and people are gonna say well since I love her and since I love him I'm like okay wait wait wait you're not listening if the if Jesus said just love one another I get it that's not what he said he said as I have loved you you are to take your cue in every relationship and then the Apostle Paul if you when people begin to read what the all of the Apostle Paul's imperative through this grid the the the Apostle Paul's riding lights up because he doesn't give us any new commands all the Apostle Paul does is give us applications of Jesus new command in you hit listen to this in your relationships with one another have the same mindset as Christ Jesus oh so in every relationship I'm to think about that relationship like Christ Jesus thought to make that's it yeah submit yourselves to one another as to the Lord so throughout the New Testament in Paul's writings he ties everything back to what God in Christ has done for us so this is why the question that I love and we find toward the end of the book is what does love require of me as a husband what does love require of me because love is not easy and love is not soft and love is not squishy love always requires something and when Juno and Jesus this is still emotional for me I wrote it you know over a year ago when Jesus told them as I've loved jr. to love one another little did they know in ours just a few hours later he was going to put on a demonstration of love that would take his breath away and would change them forever and if the cross is at the center of my understanding of what love requires of me then I of course I'm gonna love my wife like Christ loved the church because that's how Christ loved the church and of course I'm gonna raise my children in such a way that I'm dialed into their individual miss because God is so dialed into each one of us as individuals and of course I'm gonna put other people first God and of course I'm gonna forgive in fact the Apostle Paul why should we forgive your to forgive just as God in Christ forgave you so this isn't soft and this isn't squishy and it is not an excuse for sin in fact it's the opposite because as all of your listeners know especially those who've raised middle school and high school students if you give me five rules I will find space between them you give me five rules I'll find loopholes I would take it this far because I know the Bible really well if you give me the whole Bible I can find justification for anything you want to do you just tell me what you want to do about divorce about your kids about your money you just tell me what you want to do and give me a minute and I'll find just some verses to justify but when you hold up your question against this statement as God in Christ has loved you that's how you two are to inform every single decision in your life suddenly the answer to our questions the answers become terrifyingly clear because it's say in the book we almost always know what love requires of us so it is less complicated but it is far more demanding and I think that's exactly that is the essence of this new covenant so again quoting the author of Hebrews why would I want to reach back into an inferior covenant when I have a brand-new covenant that is so extraordinarily clear and informs every single one up and this is the amazing thing Jesus new covenant command informs every single modern decision it is transgenerational it works everywhere with everybody and every demographic at at all times whereas clearly the old covenant does not I mean animal sacrifice is illegal in most parts of the world but that's okay it was perfect for its time and then Jesus 2,000 years ago gives us a single command that works for everybody everywhere and it is inviting because everybody wants to be treated that way and everybody ultimately knows what love requires of them so that's you know that's sort of the driving force as we get toward the end of the book I'm sorry to go so long no that's great a great answer and you propose that in this post Christian era that that the gateway into Christianity should be through the New Testament falling in love with Jesus falling in love with the idea of what does love look like and then eventually people will then open their minds to the Old Covenant this is so important and this is a section that didn't make it to the book that I love to teach on historically this is irrefutable I mean anyone can check this out historically Gentiles non-jewish people we were not interested in what we call the Old Testament they called it the law of the prophets Gentiles were not interested in the law and the prophets until they became interested in Jesus so it was Jesus first and then the Old Covenant or the Old Testament or the law and the prophets when they discovered that Jesus or believed that Jesus was the son of God and that his death paid for sin and then they discovered that the Jewish people that their literature and their scripture had pointed to this all along that's when Gentiles got interested in the Old Testament so even though the Old Testament is at the beginning of our book it's actually at the back of our apologetic and for most people who become Christians as adult it's similar to your experience they come to faith through the message of Jesus and then they find themselves interested in the backstory to the main story which of course is the Old Testament the other way of saying it is this when my kids were young and they were going to public high school I said to them they all went to public universities as well I said at any point in your education your educational experience if somebody points to something in the Old Testament says do you really believe do you really believe do you really believe our answer is this you know what Jesus believed that and the way I see it is anytime someone can predict their own death and resurrection and pull it off we should just go with whatever that person says because historically logically but not personally historically and logically the reason we take the Old Testament seriously is because of Jesus if there was no Jesus you and I would know virtually nothing about ancient Judaism unless we studied it in school because we learned about Noah and the Ark and David and Goliath and all this we didn't learn those stories at the university we learned those in church no Jesus no church no New Testament no Old Testament just ancient Jewish history that honestly many truly most Jews don't take serious they take it as inspirational and motivational but more Christians believe in the literacy of the Old Testament then Jews do so Jesus first Old Testament second in terms of our experience but again as children that's not how we come to faith we're given a Bible the whole thing at one time and off we go so again none of this is new but in terms of creating on ramps to faith for people it is very important yeah you say none of it's new but it's still hard for people I understand that I understand that and part of what I'm trying to do is learn how to talk about it better and I love opportunities like this to bring some clarification so thank you I found that interesting is he talked about your story and how you were kind of judgmental in a way as you grew up and saw kind of black and white when it when it came to sin and what people were doing right what people were doing wrong to share that a little bit with us and how about yeah I tell this story in the book because again I'm I'm trying to get my mind around what does love requires me and I was first born of a firstborn you know pastor so I was very rules oriented I did the right thing I had a very vertical view of Christianity and by that I mean if I you know give my money and if I stay moral and if you know I do two or three other things then God's good with me and I'm good with God and all these other people I hope they can catch up someday and I hope they come to faith and God loves them but I'm not sure I like them and I found myself jealous sometimes of people who could just send and just seem to enjoy it and you know I was looking forward to the day that you know that was not going to work out for them and I would be like well it's too bad you know there so I'm compressing years of really a bit of a pharisaical approach to faith but it was very vertical i if you would ask me about the one anothers in the New Testament love one another forgiving one another all the way I don't think I knew about it I mean they were there but I just somehow skipped over those I was constantly trying to figure out how to please God make God happy with me it was a very Old Covenant approach to God God's gonna bless me because I'm obedient I'm gonna have a good marriage because I wait it I'm gonna have money because I tithe you know that that whole transactional approach to faith well what comes with that is you become very judgmental you just judge other people and in the book I tell the story of how God just had to break that out of me and it's I mean I was just a shame and when I began to understand the horizontal approach to faith which is Andy you can't be right with God if you are not right with people it's like oh my gosh I mean that was me that was just kind of like a new reveling it's it's throughout the New Testament it's not new it's been there the whole time so um you know that's part of my faith journey as well and I'm sure it has impacted whatever it in the way I've written it but that was many many years ago that was that's not a new thing so I don't feel like I'm reacting to that but it is certainly part of my story and one of the questions I get from our staff a good bit and from other pastors as they say Andy you were preacher's kid you never rebelled you never we know went out in the world and sowed your Wild Oats and came back I don't have that story at all and they say how is it that you're so concerned about unchurched people it's not like you can even identify it with them in terms of your experience and I'm like I think it's this part of my story that you know the story of the lost sheep and the lost coin and lost son when we begin to see people the way our Heavenly Father sees people it should break our heart the the appropriate response to sin is not righteous indignation the appropriate response to sin is a broken heart and when sin isn't breaking our heart we do not have the heart of our Father and for too many years I did not so again it's part of my journey it's part of the book as you know I'm trying to appeal to some people maybe that were raised the way I was and saw the world the way I did to say hey there's a different way there's a different way forward yeah so as you communicate to the nuns as you communicate to people who have turned their back on the church how do you make our faith irresistible well people have a hard time resisting compassion generosity and grace because every body wants to be forgiven everybody wants a community everybody wants to be listened to everybody wants to have their story valued and validated and everybody wants to know if there is something beyond this life I want to know what it is and I don't want a fairy tale don't give me the party line you know don't just hand me a verse if there's really something to it I want to know but I'm not gonna listen until I know I can trust you because people buy into the messenger before the message one hundred percent of the time and so it really is you know grace and mercy and compassion and generosity extraordinary generosity is disarming it's difficult to a resist a person that's helping you especially when they're different than you in fact the more different they are from you the more compelling their generosity becomes and that's what we see in the life of Jesus it's what we see in the for in the early church with the Apostles who are out serving widows and that kind of generosity and compassion has always been an on-ramp from the first Centurion and then of course Christians built schools and Christians brought education and Christians brought the printing press and Christians brought medicine and on and on ago so it's it's been that way from the beginning and the more we lean into that you know the more people are going to take us seriously so at the end of the day it really comes down to this Jesus came to introduce something brand-new to the world it wasn't an extension of something old it was the end of something old in the beginning of something brand-new not just for a nation or people but for the whole world he launched a brand new movement we call the church ecclesia a brand new covenant with all mankind with a brand new command to love as we've been loved and those things literally I mean it's undeniable those three things literally change the world and those three things shaped Western culture and this is one of the things that our secular culture doesn't appreciate because the church hasn't talked about it enough but literally I mean Bart Airmen in his book the triumph of Christianity I mean he's a renowned I'm atheist at the the last statement and one of his most recent books he says it whether you like it or not whether you think it's a good or bad thing or not there's no denying it that Christianity Shea Western civilization and helped people understand what it meant to be human because Jesus elevated the dignity of women children slaves citizens everybody and this was brand new to the world it was one of his closest followers John who introduced to this world this concept that is so widely accepted but again people don't know that it originated with one of his followers John the Gospel writer John is the first person to ever say or to document God is love that is a uniquely Christian idea so my point in the book is to clarify the newness of what Jesus came to do and I'm convinced that when people understand the new that he introduced to the world they will want it to be true before they believe it's true thank you thank you

Channel: 100huntley

Views: 59,689

Keywords: 100Huntley, Crossroads, Christian, Christians, News, Christianity, Bible, Faith, Christ, Scripture, Jesus, HolySpirit, Religion, andy stanley, north point, andy stanley (person), maggie john, irresistible andy stanley, irresistible andy stanley video, full uncut interview, irresistible, irresistible book, irresistible book summary, irresistible book review, full interview, andy stanley sermons

Id: emRPPoqkFPY

Length: 49min 45sec (2985 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 18 2019