Let me just make a quick introduction. I’m sure there isn’t a single person from my channel that doesn't know who Andy is. So in this live streamed podcast today, we don’t plan on talking about too much poker strategy. Instead we’ll be discussing more broader topics about poker and life. Because of Andy's playing style on the poker table, many of my viewers really enjoy watching him. Andy, so how's this. I know you're much more fluent in English than in Mandarin, but since almost all the viewers today are Mandarin speakers, you're going to have to use your Mandarin today. My plan is to speak Mandarin for your viewers the best I can. If I have any difficulties, I’ll use English and you help translate. Okay, let's get started then. Recently I saw that there’s a hand people keep asking about so why don’t we start it off with this hand. Sure. So I've brought up this hand before in the past. It’s a hand between you and Garrett, where you had pocket deuces. A lot of viewers asked about it, but I couldn't explain it. You did a hand analysis video on the hand, right? Yes, but in that video, I just made guesses on what was happening. For those that have seen this hand between Garrett and I For those that have seen this hand between Garrett and I might not understand what was happening in this hand or wonder why there were so many raises preflop or why I decided to call down. So from the start, when Garrett 3bets and I 4bet, I felt that specifically against this player, it was going to be difficult to win if I did not hit a set. I thought raising, turning this hand into a bluff while using my position was a better play. while using my position was a better play. while using my position was a better play. When Garrett chose to reraise again, I observed that he would sometimes take these type of hands that he would not call with and reraise with them instead. So preflop, I had this idea that he may have these type of hands specifically hands containing an Ace or King blocker. specifically hands containing an Ace or King blocker. specifically hands containing an Ace or King blocker. He didn’t necessarily have to be holding hands like AA, KK, QQ. So you limp raised, 4bet and then he 5bet. Yes. And he 5bet to 12,000. Yes. If I did not have position, I would not call. So I called and the flop came 983 So I called and the flop came 983 and he made a downbet to 8000. Obviously, it was risky to call here since I likely only had two outs if he had a hand. But I wanted to see how he would play future streets. I was just taking advantage of my position. So after he bet 8000, I called to see what developed. Were you playing against him this way specifically because it was against Garrett? Would you be playing this way against other players too? Absolutely not. I would never make these same decisions against the players on the left and right of him on the table. So that was kind of my thought process here. A possible flush came on the turn, and if my 2 was not a diamond, I would likely give up the hand. Obviously, I had the lowest diamond and if I was drawing live, I had 9 outs. and if I was drawing live, I had 9 outs. But I called again mainly because of position. I thought that if a 4th diamond came on the river, and he did not have a diamond in his hand, it would be difficult for him to bet a third time out of position because from his perspective, it may seem that I had a large diamond to be able to call the turn. that I had a large diamond to be able to call the turn. So whether I had the Ace or the 2 of diamonds if another diamond came, bluffing without one would be hard. So I was just using position. Even though I had the worst possible flush draw, it was still a flush draw. This hand is really a classic. So it went check, check on the river. And after he saw your pair of deuces, was there any discussion or comments about the hand? was there any discussion or comments about the hand? Or was he very surprised to see your hand? Yes, and I would say that in that situation, there was a good chance I could have been way behind, but I think long term against a player like Garrett it's beneficial to let your opponent know that you may get sticky. I think if you don’t let your opponent know that you are willing to call down lighter sometimes, he will continue to use leverage to bluff you repeatedly, especially in deep stack situations. Yes, that’s an effective strategy in that situation. Right, using your own stack depth against you. If you're deep stacked, it can become a disadvantage. If I had a short stack, I could raise all in at some point, but since we were deep, he can apply a lot of pressure. So in some situations, I might... I could have been maybe 50/50 here on whether he had me beat. I wasn’t sure, but I think it was a bit of not fully believing combined with thinking that calling down sometimes serves the purpose in letting your opponent know that you aren’t willing to just give up so easily in a 4bet or 5bet pot. This can help prevent being bet off the hand in future where I might be holding a marginal hand or if I was drawing, allowing me more chances to get to showdown since I didn't give him credit or gave up easily in previous hands. Yes, I think it’s exactly this reason why people love watching the two of you play. I think most people who watch Live at the Bike really enjoy the the two of you playing back and forth. I would say I got very lucky here. The difficult part is that Garrett is very balanced. We can’t assume he doesn't have hands like AA, QQ, KK however we can probably say that in that lineup, if anybody was capable of having bluffs there, it would be Garrett. The others would have far fewer, and so I probably wouldn't think too much and just fold. It was a unique situation. I think everybody interested in this hand thought that it was unique. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it. Next let's talk about your general experiences of learning poker as I think in Asia, people can agree that you’re currently one of the best players to watch I know you’ve been playing cards for 17 years now so you've been playing since you were around 20 years old. How did you first start getting into the poker? This is pretty interesting actually. So it was around 20 years ago, during what they call the “poker boom” in the U.S. when poker suddenly became very popular and widespread, that’s when I first discovered it as well, seeing it on television. The annual World Series of Poker was on and my friend was pretty excited talking about it and discussing it with his other friends that day. I was curious and had no idea what they were watching then. I asked my friend what game they were playing, and he taught me the rules. Soon after that, we started playing in small games together at school, together with other friends. I fell in love with the game of poker ever since. And then, every week I would look forward to the next game. I discovered that I was able to win their money most of the times. I didn’t have much as a student back then. What was it about poker that attracted you the most back then? I discovered that in poker… You could win money. Yes, I could win money but also that poker was a game of skill. Obviously, I knew luck was involved but what drew me in was realizing that long term, I could win all their money if I played better than those friends of mine at that time. So I started learning more and thinking about the game. During that time, there was not much resource in learning poker, not at all like how it is now with all the training sites, software etc. So how did you improve your game back then? The first thing was I went to this large famous bookstore in the US called Barnes & Nobles and bought all the books on poker. I remember stacking these books... You really read and finished all these books? Pretty much and during that time, books on No Limit Texas Holdem were not as common. Most of the books were about Limit Hold'em. But I still read them as there were concepts in Limit Hold'em that were applicable to No Limit Hold'em. So I started off just reading a lot. So my mind became full of poker all the time, no matter if I was sleeping or in class, just anticipating to go to the casinos to play. I spent all my free time playing. Do you think those books that you read still have any value to the new players today? Probably not much. The landscape has changed too drastically. People are able to learn too quickly these days. These solvers, software, and GTO charts that people use… they didn't exist back then. People didn’t really think about the game in that way, applying the same logic used today. It was very different. When did the game really become an important part of your life? When you first started playing poker, and it was just a recreational activity for you. When did that change for you? I would say probably when I would be day dreaming and finding myself looking out the window at the office, wishing I was elsewhere, at the casino. Just trying to get some work done and wondering why I couldn’t stop thinking about poker. I would say it was about that time period. Of course, it was also when I started to win a lot as it gave me confidence to keep playing and kept my interest in improving. I started off small and worked my way up, gradually A lot people actually ask where the funds to play come from. Truthfully, I’ve never wanted to borrow any money from anyone or from family to play poker. It’s taken me all these years to slowly build up. It’s been a long journey, starting off playing small stakes and using my own resources, finding a way to get to where I am today. So everything I put on the table is mine. I don’t sell or buy any action. Some people ask if I have all of myself at the Live at the Bike. The answer is yes. Again, I don't sell or buy action. When you left the office job and started playing more poker, were there a big difference in how you imagined it or was it pretty similar? There were some differences and some similarities. One aspect of poker that attracted me was because I think because my personality is naturally more introverted. Is that right? Introvert. Is that the correct translation? I've never been that social with people. When I was in school, I didn’t really like to speak much and didn't have too many close friends. I imagined poker would be similar in that sense. I could just sit there and focus on the game and not have to socialize as much with people. So that was what I imagined. You really just enjoyed being there all day not having to speak to people and just focused on playing. I did. That’s why I felt that poker was really suitable for me. For me, poker became kind of like a form of escape, escaping from reality, away from everyday society Having your own space. Exactly. Having my own time and my own space. So I would just go to the casino and disappear, sometimes for 24 hours while my friends couldn't find me, disappearing into the world of poker. There are disadvantages in being like that however. As I’ve recently started a doing YouTube and meeting a lot of new friends out here in Asia, I’ve found that being more social in poker is a better way. The downside about playing poker with a solitary mindset is that sometimes it can become a very lonely activity. Lonely Yes, you’re just in our own head a lot. So if you go to the casino and just put up a wall, I think long-term, there can be a negative impact, especially during a downswing and if you're just holding it in, avoiding social interactions. Finding a way to be a bit more social while still being able to focus on the game is probably much better and healthier for players. It’s probably easier to be more social when the game is smaller When you have that mound of chips in front of you it’s naturally going to be more difficult, right? Yes, you can definitely say that. You’ve probably been playing for a while now too, right? Yes, I started around 2014, when I graduated from college. When I first started playing, I just kept losing. So then a friend told me that poker is probably not for you. I kept losing because I couldn’t stop bluffing, but I couldn't find the appropriate spots to bluff. If they checked and I didn’t have any showdown value, I would just bluff every time. I didn’t understand. So I just lost repeatedly. So after my friend told me that poker was not for me, I started to study the game and watched some videos. I would write down a lot of notes. Pretty quickly, I became a better player than most of my friends. But it was much easier to surpass people in skill back then because everybody's level was relatively low. Ronnie, I’m curious, what caused you to become interested in starting to share poker hand analysis videos? Because when I first started learning the game, I would watch other peoples’ poker videos on YouTube. but they were all in English. So if people were making these videos in English for beginners, I thought I could try to do some in Chinese. The first time I saw your videos was about a year ago. Somebody sent me a link, asking if I was aware that somebody was creating videos on your poker hands. At that time, you didn't have that many videos involving my hands, so I didn’t really pay that much attention. But later, you started doing more Live at the Bike hands. I found that I was involved in many of those hands. Why does this guy keep talking about me? But I found that not only could I gain insight on the play from these players, but that I could also learn Chinese terminology relating to poker. Using this much Mandarin to talk about poker was so foreign to me before I made this trip back to Asia. I had no idea on how to talk about poker in Mandarin. I don't know what things are even called. I’ve learned it all from watching and listening to you guys. I found it funny that the translation in Mandarin for the river card was so literal and was the same word used for an actual river. Actually, I also started learning poker terms in English, and so I also had to search for the translation in Mandarin. Also, there's a lot of words that still don't have a proper translation. You should be the official translator Designate any word you want in Mandarin for the English term, and everybody will follow your lead on that since you currently have the most people watching your hand analysis videos. Due to the pandemic, the amount of poker videos I can do is limited. I'm hoping to create more content on topics outside of poker, like on your channel where you talk about life, food, etc. I think it’s great to share any experiences that you think are meaningful to you and worth sharing. I agree. I imagine friends in the US don't know what poker is like on another part of the world. Before I came back myself, I had no idea. So I want to share this part of life with people. And at the same time, help familiarize poker to more new players help promote its growth in Asia, similar to what you said. contributing to the creation of content to the community. I have similar ideas. I have a friend here that would like to ask you a question. He asks what you think is your greatest strength as a poker player? I would say… my personality that doesn’t give up easily. I feel that I am well suited to play poker because no matter how many times I get beat down I’ll just keep getting up. I’ll keep trying. This is a critical trait to have in poker as losing is part of the game. Sometimes you go through long periods of losing continuously. If you are the type to give up easily, then succeeding in poker will be difficult. But I happen to have a personality where the more I lose to you, the more motivated I am to find ways to beat you. It’s a type of determination where it starts to cross the line of insanity. In some cases, it may be wiser to quit, but because of my huge ego, it won’t let my own mind admit defeat. I think that's how I would describe it. So you believe your greatest strength to be a personality trait instead of a technical skill in the game? That’s right, not a specific skill in the game. Because I think to some degree, everyone can learn the game, but I think in one's personality, either you are or you aren't. There are parts of your personality where you cannot change easily. Then what do you think is your most needed area of improvement? The lack of patience. I still have this problem. When you’re in a high stakes game and people have big decisions, naturally the pace of the game is going to be slower as people need more time to decide what to do. The impatience can arise from certain situations. For example, even if there is a fast dealer, sometimes you’ll only be dealt 20 or so hands in one hour, sometimes even much less like 15 hands. That’s very few hands when playing live poker. So you may have fewer opportunities to recover any losses. Hence, you may become too eager to play in unprofitable situations because you are frustrated at the pace of play. Do you still have this problem? I still do. Even after playing for so many years? Yes, because sometimes the game is really far too slow. Sometimes there are certain players that people just can’t tolerate. This is why at Live at the Bike, we use time chips. The orange ones, used for time extensions. We found out that without those time chips, players will be taking too much time. Everybody will be impatient and frustrated in that case. So imagine that and then also not getting playable hands. Then imagine also losing a lot in addition. So this combined can cause your play to suffer. Coming up in poker, have you ever thought about getting a coach? Coming up in poker, have you ever thought about getting a coach? How do you feel about coaching in general? I would say it would have been nice to have a player that I can talk about poker with. I’ve never had that. You’ve never had anyone like that? No, I really haven’t. For example, I’m not going to discuss poker with my competitors such as those on Live at the Bike, allowing them to comprehend my thought processes. Most of my friends in poker play a bit smaller stakes, and so things are bit different. In the future, I’ll probably just have to call you up Ronnie. “Hey Ronnie, what do you think about this?” I’ll be able to tell you how a fish thinks about it. I won’t be able to tell you the correct play, but I’ll let you know what the wrong play is. Currently in Asia, a lot of young people have just started in poker. The poker culture and interest is still fresh here. And there are more and more newer players. But I still don’t really feel that it’s widely supported in general compared to the US or Europe. What do you think? It does seem like that. But I think it’s much better than how it was 5 years ago. The level of acceptance is growing and I think given more time, more people will be introduced to the game and support it. So you're optimistic about poker's growth in Asia, yes? Do you think it's going in a positive direction? I haven't had enough time to really understand the state that it’s in. There’s many places that I've never been to yet, so many Asian countries I hope to travel to after the pandemic. I'm hoping to have more opportunities and meet new people. Do you play any other games aside from poker? I used to in my younger years. Now I play much less. Growing up, my older brother had a big influence on me. Growing up, my older brother had a big influence on me. We used to play a lot of very competitive games together whether its chess or other various type of games. I’ve always had a very competitive mentality at a young age, wanting to become proficient at any game I was competing in. I feel like for me, after I started playing poker I lost interest in other games. I think that’s because there's so many variables in poker. Every situation is different and you use your brain to figure it out. I think that’s how the game has been able to sustain its popularity. Every year, there are new players getting into poker. Because of the variables involved in the game, situations are not black and white, creating room for discussion and keeping the game interesting to play. Do you know a lot of poker players practicing meditation? Yes, quite a few. Have you tried it too? I’ve tried it but not to the degree of dedication that others have, doing it before every game or committing to it a few times a week or attending a class. I know of poker players in the US who really believe in the power and effects of meditation. And they’re not only doing it for poker but also for themselves, maintaining a healthy mind in their lives outside of poker. I’ve tried it a few times and fell asleep every time. I must be doing it wrong since I've tried many times and always fell asleep. They have these apps for meditation now, don’t they? Download them on your phone and listen with earphones. Yes, I've seen those. Right, there's a lot of those now. In the poker world in the US, healthy lifestyle habits are highly emphasized, such as meditation and diet, the type of foods you choose to eat, and the effects they have on your body overall. It’s important in poker where you may have to play for long hours. I have one specific question from a viewer here. He asks how you’re able to focus at Live at the Bike when there are female players in the game exposing their cleavages? What type of female players? The female players wearing very little clothing. He's wondering how you focus in that situation? It doesn't affect my focus. If we’re speaking honestly, I haven’t seen a female player at the casino that has caught my eye. If they’re dressed that way, it has no affect on me. I just see her chips and think about how to win them. So no matter the gender or age, it’s all the same to you? So no matter the gender or age, it’s all the same to you? Right. But when you look at someone like Jennifer Tilly, that’s how she always dresses when she goes out. Is that a special strategy or do they just like... Yes, of course. Or do they just like that style of fashion? Of course that’s their strategy. Females players are very aware of how easy it is to distract us as men at the table. So they may try to influence how we play at the table, maybe getting us to play nicer or softer in certain spots. Nicer against them. Yes, maybe you're about to bet but because she's been flirty... How do you translate that? Flirtatious? She's changed how you would play and you check instead. They’re aware of these minor things that can affect us. They’re not really dressed that way for themselves, are they? It's for others to take notice. So whether the player is attractive is not what is important, but how well the player plays the game. That’s why I chose your hands vs Garrett to create my videos. Because actually in the end... So you’re saying that I’m not attractive enough as a person? Well, you can always look even better. That way you’ll have both going for you. Ronnie, but you do have a video in which you commented about how thin I was back then. I went back and looked and realized you were right. I've put on so much weight since then. Looking back at myself then, I'm thinking, "Who is this?" Someone here is asking if you attend the WSOP? What do you think of the WSOP? I used to make an annual trip and attend it every year. I would live out there for a few months. However because of the recent pandemic, I’ll likely choose to wait until it’s safer even if they resumed the live events. WSOP really is a great experience for those poker fans that haven’t had the chance to attend before. It’s really a necessary experience to have if you haven't gone yet. I still haven't. I’m still looking for the right time to go. Yes. When you’re living there for an extended period of time, and your daily schedule is filled with poker, there’s bound to be some crazy stories. Actually, I have some interesting stories from my days there. One time I was playing at the Bellagio, and out of my full table of 9 players I was the only Asian and the only American. The other 8 players were all from different European countries. Spain, Russia, Germany... each speaking their language. I was the only one speaking English. It was a unique experience for me since I hadn't been on table with so many different nationalities. On top of that, the game was crazy. I played for almost three days nonstop. On the first day, we played until the game was about to break. It was down to 3 handed and everybody had already left. Everybody else left and it had been 24 hours. So I continued 3 handed with these two others. We continued playing for another full day. The last few hours on the second day were heads up. On the third day, the game started to fill up back to 9. So I played three days, from 9 down to heads up and back to 9. I barely got up, only to use the restroom. So do you enjoy 8 to 9 players or heads up more? I think heads up is fine but I think the ideal is 5 to 6 handed. 7 is acceptable too but 8 or 9 is too slow for me. If we're playing live poker, I don't prefer that. Players can just stick to playing only the best starting hands and rely on that strategy to win when the game is too full. I think things like a big blind ante are necessary. I'm referring to Texas Hold'em, not sure about games like Omaha. In the US, the direction that the game is going is that there are more antes and dead money being added, more blinds, maybe up to 3 blinds. The idea is to create a more aggressive dynamic. Encouraging players to enter the pot more. Yes, because the level of play has already increased a lot. That’s why there are new forms of the game being invented. Texas Hold'em has been around for a while now in the US. Everybody has a certain level of proficiency already. So to keep things interesting, I think 6 players works well. Here's a great question from one of the viewers. I have experienced this problem myself. How does one convince family and friends to support poker playing? I'm sure you've had some experience with this. Did you have to try to convince people or did you just not try? I consider myself very lucky. Even though my family is traditional, they never gave me any pressure regarding this. The way I was raised growing up was to find my own path. Whatever you want to do, just go and try it. However at first, my mother did not support my decision. But that's likely because she did not really understand what poker is. I'm sure many people still have this issue. When they hear poker, they equate that to blackjack or baccarat or games that involve less skill. When they don't fully understand, they might think this way. Now as I have been doing this for so many years as a grown man, and as I mentioned before, I never borrow money nor would I be using money to cause harm to others, there really isn't any reason for criticism from them. They give you that freedom. Right. Let me answer a few questions from viewers... I'll let this app read the question directly to avoid mistakes. Can you give any advice for new players? Advice for new players, okay. So to answer this question, if you have a normal stable job, my advice is to take things slowly in poker. Don't feel rushed. The game is always going to be there. Don't be impulsive like how I was when I first started. Okay, the next question is... will I be playing the WSOP Online? I still prefer live poker. For online poker, I'll be playing some poker tournaments online at GGpuke.com But the main purpose will be to have interactions on live streams and at the same time, to have a public presence online. So it will be a more relaxed atmosphere, playing some smaller tournaments at GGpuke.com If we're talking about WSOP, I'll go there directly when things start up again in Las Vegas. I prefer to go there and play their live events. Will you be doing any coaching videos? So my plan is that I'm willing to do some 1 on 1 coaching. I likely won't be doing any coaching videos but since I'm in Asia now, I'm willing to do this for players that are looking for this. I've already started this. There's now a live website. Players can go to the website and fill out some information regarding what they're looking for to determine if I can help. And if it's suitable, we can continue with 1 on 1 coaching. Let me ask one more question for the viewers here. Sure. What are your thoughts on GTO? What are my thoughts on GTO... Many people have asked. Sure. I think GTO is a great approach to learn the game, especially online, playing against unknowns and with no history. You definitely need to understand these concepts and ideas. But for me personally, because I still prefer live poker and like I mentioned before, the high stakes games in LA are consisted of fewer players overall so I am very familiar playing with all of them often. Not just on the stream at Live at the Bike, but on a normal basis, we're playing in the same games all the time. Therefore regarding GTO, for me, it wouldn't be as crucial compared to an online setting. Obviously, the theories are still very applicable in live games, but if there are situations to use an exploitative strategy, the combination of the two... It's worth learning. Right. I think both approaches are important to understand. The game is continuously evolving, moving in an upward direction. So if you want to keep up with the game and continue improving, then you have to follow that line closely. That's a very valid point. Right, so of course the concepts of GTO are important to learn. I think next time, we can set up and play a game online together. I'll set up a game at GGpuke.com, and we can invite some other Chinese poker players to join. I think it'll be very interesting. What do you think? Sure. I'd look forward to that. We'll have to do that. I may have to go back and watch all your videos on me first, listen to all your commentaries, and then I'll be ready to play. Okay, we're definitely going to set aside time for this. So we'll discuss more on how and when to do it. Sure. So we've talked about a lot of poker topics today. I think I've asked most of the questions that I've wanted to ask. Yes, let's end our show here. Thank you Ronnie. It was great to be able to come on today. Thank you. And have this chat. Seeing you talk about my poker hands for so long now, it's great to be able to connect and have this chat with you. All my viewers were saying, Wow Ronnie, how were you able to get Andy as your guest? So really it's been an honor. Thank you.
