MODELING AND FITNESS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. >> OF COURSE, KAREN McDOUGAL DESCRIBING THE CATCH AND KILL PROCESS. WE'RE BACK WITH ANDREW AND GEORGE AND VAUGHN AND ERICA. SO YOU WERE SAYING IN THE BREAK, THERE IS A LOT THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET. >> YEAH, FIRST, JUST FOR THINGS THAT WE THINK WE KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO BE HEARING THAT IN GRUESOME DETAIL. AND SO I THINK THERE IS JUST THAT. BUT -- >> LIKE WHAT? >> SO EVEN JUST EXACTLY HOW THE CATCH AND KILL WORKED AND WHO WAS INVOLVED AND WHAT WAS THE DISCUSSIONS AND WHEN IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. AND WHY THEY DECIDED FOR INSTANCE ONE OF THE KEY PIECES OF EVIDENCE FOR THE D.A. SEEMS TO BE TO REFUTE THE IDEA THAT HE WANTS TO DO THIS JUST TO KEEP IT FROM MELANIA IS DONALD TRUMP SAYING, WELL LETS SEE IF WE COULD DO THIS IF IT IS LATER AND IF I LOSE THE ELECTION, WHO CARES BECAUSE I'M NOT DOING THIS TO KEEP IT FROM MY WIFE, I'M DOING IT TO KEEP IT FROM THE ELECTORATE. AND ON DAY ONE OF THIS CASE, IT WAS MONDAY. BUT THE CATCH AND KILL WAS MORE THAN JUST CATCH AND KILL. IT WAS A FAKE NEWS CAMPAIGN. IT WAS TO KEEP INFORMATION THAT WAS DAMAGING TO DONALD TRUMP OUT. BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HEAR A NUMBER OF DETAILS THAT THE D.A. IS CORRECT IN WHAT HE'S PROFFERING ABOUT EFFORTS TO SMEAR HIS OPPONENTS. SO ONE TIDBIT IS THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS APPARENTLY AND WE'RE GOING TO HEAR EVIDENCE ON THIS, GETTING HEADLINES THAT WOULD RUN IN THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" BEFOREHAND, FOR HIM TO APPROVE. SO JUST -- I DON'T WANT TO CALL THIS A MAJOR NEWS OUTLET, BUT SAY A MEDIA OUTLET IN COMPLETE CAHOOTS WITH A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN. I MEAN, THIS IS -- >> AND PEOPLE LAUGH AT THIS FACT, BUT "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" ENDORSES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN PUBLICATION HISTORY, IT ENDORSED DONALD TRUMP. >> JUST FAST FORWARD TO DOMINION AND FOX NEWS. THIS IS SORT OF A HORRENDOUS STORY. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE SOME SORT OF IMPARTIAL BALANCE MEDIA ORGANIZATION AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY WORKING TO KEEP INFORMATION, TO DISSEMINATE FALSE INFORMATION AND ALL ON BEHALF OF ONE CANDIDATE. SO I THINK THOSE KINDS OF DETAILS ARE GOING TO MAKE THIS SEEM MUCH, MUCH MORE SALACIOUS AND WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS RUNNING ON A FAKE NEWS CAMPAIGN, IT IS -- THIS IS GOING TO BE, OH, THIS IS YOUR POINT, BUT IT IS ALL PROJECTION AND NOTHING IT NEW. THIS IS DONALD TRUMP AT GROUND ZERO OF FAKE NEWS. >> TED CRUZ'S CAMPAIGN, I WAS COVERING THAT IN THE HEART OF IT, AND I MEAN ESSENTIALLY AFTER HE WORKED HIS WAY THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE CANDIDATES IN MARCH OF 2023, I REMEMBER BEING IN WISCONSIN AND IN DANE, WISCONSIN, WHEN THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" DROPPED THE ALLEGATIONS THAT WERE SALACIOUS THAT HE HAD MULTIPLE AFFAIRS AND CHEATED ON HIS WIFE HEIDI CRUZ, WHICH THEY WERE UNFOUNDED AN BASELESS. THEY WERE JUST POTENTIALLY DEFAMATORY AND THEY HAD IMPLICATIONED. THOSE WERE THE HEADLINES THAT DROVE FRANKLY, WE COULD GO BACK IN TIME AND QUESTION OUR OWN HEADLINES, BUT THEY DROVE FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES TO THE NBC NEWS THE DISCUSSION OF THE REPUBLICAN RACE THERE IN REAL TIME BETWEEN TED CRUZ AND DONALD TRUMP. DAYS LATER, IT THEN CAME OUT, THE HEADLINE, OF THAT TED CRUZ'S FATHER HAD BEEN ENGAGED IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION. THAT IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ON MAY 3rd, THE DAY THAT TED CRUZ DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE. THAT COULD HAVE CHANGED HISTORY AND THAT'S TO YOUR POINT, WE DON'T HAVE THE FULL PICTURE HERE. BUT WHAT THE PROSECUTION SUGGESTED IS THAT THEY WANT TO BRING THIS EVIDENT FORWARD AND AS SOMEONE THAT COVERED THAT RACE SO CLOSELY AND AS AN INDUSTRY WHERE WE QUESTION HOW DO WE COVER POLITICS IN CAMPAIGNS, I THINK IT IS PARAMOUNT THAT WE HAVE THAT FULL UNDERSTANDING AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT IT IS GOING TO BE SO INTRIGUING WHAT THE PROSECUTION BRINGS FORWARD. >> HOPE HICKS IS ON THE WITNESS LIST. THERE WERE A LOT OF PROFILES DONE ABOUT HOPE HICKS DURING THE FIRST CAMPAIGN AND IN ONE OF THEM THERE IS DEMEANING BEHAVIOR. SHE WAS IN AND OUT OF MEETINGS AFTER RUMORS OF THIS TAPE THAT JIM COMEY TELLS -- SHE WAS INVOLVED IN EVERYTHING MINUSCULE AND MASSIVE, AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR TRUMP THAT SHE'S ON THE WITNESS LIST. >> SHE HAS MORE CREDIBILITY THAN ANYTHING ELSE. SHE WAS NEVER CHARGED WITH HIM. SHE WAS WITH HIM ALL OF THE TIME. LIKE THE BODY GUY. AND IT IS GOING TO BE QUITE REMARKABLE TO HEAR SOME OF THIS TESTIMONY FROM HER. WE'VE NEVER ACTUALLY HEARD, I DON'T THINK WE'VE HEARD HER REALLY SAY THAT MUCH. ALTHOUGH MAYBE THERE IS SOME EXITS OF JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE HEARINGS. BUT THEN TO GO BACK TO PECKER, THE AMI GUY, DIDN'T HE COME TO THE WHITE HOUSE, DIDN'T HE COME TO THE WHITE HOUSE IN LIKE FEBRUARY OF 2017 AND DONALD TRUMP THANKED HIM FOR HELPING WITH THE CAMPAIGN. AND THAT IS GOING TO BE TESTIMONY. HE'S GOING TO BE -- THAT IS EVIDENCE. WHAT HE WHATS DOING. >> WHAT DOES THE LINE OF QUESTIONING LOOK LIKE? HE GETS ON STAND AND THE PROSECUTOR ASKS HIM WHAT? >> REMEMBER, THIS STARTS IN 2015 AND IT IS ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL HE'S AT -- UNTIL HE'S PRESIDENT AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A TIMELINE. YOU DO THIS, FIRST, MICHAEL COHEN WILL BE ABOUT WHAT HE PLED GUILTY TO AND YOU DO THAT. BUT WITH PECKER, IT MIGHT START WITH LET'S TALK ABOUT THE RESOLUTION AND THAT YOU WERE ESSENTIALLY GIVEN IMMUNITY BUT YOU HAD TO COME AND BE TRUTHFUL AND THEN IT IS STARTED FROM HOW DID YOU MEET HIM AND WHAT WERE THE KEY CONVERSATIONS AND IT IS GOING TO BE LIKE CHAPTER AND VERSE. AND AS HE TELLS THE STORY, YOU'RE THEN GOING TO HAVE ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT CORROBORATE IT. NOW A KEY WAY TO DO THIS, IT IS A SLOW INTERVIEW, WHICH IS YOU HAVE THEM TELL THE STORIES AND THEN YOU GO TO THE DOCUMENTS AND ESSENTIALLY HAVE THEM RETELL THE STORY THROUGH ALL OF THE DOCUMENTS AN THE JURY SEES THIS IS CORROBORATED. INCLUDING WITH DAVID PECKER, IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE CROSS GOING TO BE. THIS IS NOT MICHAEL COHEN WHERE HE'LL HAVE TO ADMIT THAT HE COMMITTED PERJURY AND HE'S GOING TO SAY THAT HE DID IT FOR DONALD TRUMP. BUT THERE ARE SO MANY WITNESSES AND ONE OF THE HARD THINGS FOR DEFENSE COUNSEL IS TO YOU HAVE TO PICK YOUR BATTLES BECAUSE IF YOU START GOING HAMMER AND TONGS AT DAVID PECKER AND THEN IT TURNS OUT IT IS CORROBORATED ON -- WITH A DOCUMENT OR HOPE HICKS IS GOING TO COME IN AND SAY, YEAH, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED, YOU LOST SO MUCH CREDIBILITY WITH THE JURY. AND I SUSPECT WE'RE ALL GOING TO GET A LESSON IT TRIAL TACTICS AND JUST TO PUT A SHOUT OUT FOR JOSH STEIN, THE LEAD PROSECUTOR IS EXCEPTIONAL. THEY ARE PUTTING THEIR BEST FOOT FORWARD. >> WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN THE PECKER TESTIMONY? >> WELL, PECKER IS OF ALL OF THE PEEP WHO ARE GOING TO TESTIFY, I THINK PROBABLY THE MOST CRITICAL PERSON WHO HAS REALLY NEVER SPOKEN PUBLICLY ABOUT THIS. AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FAKE NEWS, LET'S CALL IT A CAMPAIGN, HE'S ESSENTIAL TO THAT. HE WAS HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS DIRECTLY WITH DONALD TRUMP. HE WAS HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH HIS OWN INTERNAL PEOPLE AT THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" AND WHAT TO PUBLISH AND WHEN TO PUBLISH IT. AND WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT MICHAEL COHEN AS THIS STAR WITNESS. BUT I THINK IT IS REALLY DAVID PECKER. HE'S GOING TO BE THE NARRATOR FOR THIS ENTIRE THING. >> YOU LOOK AT HOW DONALD TRUMP HAS TALKED ABOUT HIS 88 PHONY CHARGES AND THERE IS A LOT OF BRAVADO ABOUT THE FEDERAL CHARGES. HE RUNS ON THE INSURRECTION, HE HONORS THE INSURRECTIONISTS, HE DESCRIBED THEM, THE VIOLENT ONES AS HOSTAGES. ON MAR-A-LAGO, HE CONSTANTLY TALKS TO HIS SUPPORTERS AND CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, SEAN HANNITY AND OTHERS, I WAS ALLOWED TO DO IT, THEY WERE PERSONAL RECORDS STUFFED IN THERE WITH MY UNDERWEAR. DOESN'T EVER BRAG ABOUT, OTHER THAN THE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD TAPE, BUT HE DOESN'T BRAG ABOUT THE ALLEGED SEX WITH KAREN McDOUGAL OR WITH STORMY DANIELS, OR THE ALLEGED HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS THAT WERE FILTERED THERE YOU MICHAEL COHEN THAT RUDY GIULIANI WENT ON FOX NEWS AND CONFESSED TO ON LIVE TELEVISION. HE DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THE FACTS WHICH IS IN TRUMP TERMS PRETTY TELLING. >> HE DOESN'T TALK MUCH ABOUT THE FACTS OR EVEN THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE AT STAKE. YOU DON'T HEAR HIM TALK ABOUT STORMY DANIELS ALL THAT MUCH OVER THE YEARS HE PUT OUT SOCIAL MEDIA POST AND THERE IS THE ONE IN 2018 CALLING HER HORSE FACE. JUST SORT OF DEHUMANIZING STORMY DANIELS. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE ACTUAL SUBSTANCE AND THE FACTS HE'S DENIED THE ALLEGATIONS FROM McDOUGAL AND STORMY DANIELS, AND AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVEN'T HEARD HIM TALK ABOUT THE AUGUST 15th MEETING AT TRUMP THAT HE WAS ENGAGED IN WITH MICHAEL COHEN. HE HAS NOT ANSWERED QUESTIONS OVER WHERE HE WAS REIMBURSING MICHAEL COHEN WITH MONTHLY CHECKS. HE HASN'T TALKED ABOUT -- >> REMIND EVERYONE WHAT THAT MEETING IS. >> THE MEETING IF AUGUST OF 2015 WAS AT TRUMP TOWER, AND MICHAEL COHEN IS PART OF HIS PLEA AGREEMENT AND HE IS SAYING THAT THIS MEETING HAPPENED WITH DAVID PECKER IN WHICH THESE CONVERSATIONS TOOK PLACE ABOUT THE CATCH AND KILL SCHEME. AND POTENTIALLY FIGHTING A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STORIES DO NOT COME OUT. THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS NOT BEEN POSED AND NOT RESPONDED TO. AND WHEN YOU GO THROUGH THIS CASE HERE, RIGHT, HE KIND OF, WHEN HE HAS BEEN CONFRONTED WITH THEM, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU WERE PAYING MICHAEL COHEN FOR AND WELL HE DID A LOT OF WORK FOR ME. IF HE WERE TO TESTIFY, AS HE SUGGESTED LAST WEEK HE WOULD, THE TESTIMONY WOULD COME AT THE END OF THE TRIAL AND IF THIS EVIDENCE THAT ANDREW IS SUGGESTING COULD VERY WELL BE THERE, IT IS BUILDING A BODY OF EVIDENCE THAT I AS A REPORTER HAVE A HARD TIME KNOWING THAT WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO ASK HIM THESE QUESTIONS AND HE'S BEEN SLOW TO RESPOND TO AND I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT HE WOULD WILLING FACE CROSS-EXAMINATION FOR WHAT ARE TOUGH QUESTIONS THAT FRANKLY ME AS A R
