WE WOULD WANT TO HAVE THERE IN ESSENCE. >> IT SEEMS CLEAR, VAUGHN, THAT STRATEGY IS TO TELL THE WHOLE STORY FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVEN'T BROKEN WITH TRUMP. HOPE HICKS COMES IN AND PLAYS PROMINENTLY AND PART OF THE CONSPIRACY TO ELEVATE TRUMP BY KILLING BAD STORIES AND PROMOTING GOOD ONES AND SMEAR THE OPPONENTS. IT APPEARS THAT YOU COULD READ THE PAPERS AND WELL AWARE OF WHAT THE ATTACKS SEEMS DETERMINED TO PREEMPT ALL OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT MICHAEL COHEN. >> RIGHT. AND IF WE TAKE A STEP BACK AND LEAVE THE LEGAL TRIAL ASPECT OF THIS FOR A MOMENT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE AND NOW A FRIEND OF DONALD TRUMP'S DATING BACK TO THE 1980s, THEY MET AT MAR-A-LAGO AND STAYED IN TOUCH FREQUENTLY OVER THE 30 YEARS. NOW TESTIFYING TODAY, PUBLICLY, TELLING THE ENTIRE COUNTRY THAT HE SAT IN A BOARDROOM IN TRUMP TOWER WITH DONALD TRUMP ON HIS FIRST PRESIDENTIAL RUN AND CONCOCTED A PLAN WHICH DONALD TRUMP, WHO WAS PLEASED ABOUT IN HIS OWN WORDS, TO COVER UP THE SALACIOUS STORIES. THAT WAS A PLAN THAT A LONG TIME FRIEND OF HIS NOW TELLS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. AND THEN THE KAREN McDOUGAL STORY, TO WATCH THAT TESTIMONY PLAY OUT, AGAIN A LONG TIME FRIEND ARTICULATING THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS AWARE OF THIS ALLEGED AFFAIR AND CALLED UP A FRIEND TO SAY HOW DO WE NOT LET THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE KNOW THISTORY. THAT IS SO KEY. AND THEN TO ADD ON TO THAT. IS THE FACT THAT THIS STATEMENT MAN, WHEN TALKING ABOUT HIS FINANCES OR ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, REFERRED TO HIM AS A MICROMANAGER. HE WAS AWARE OF THE CHECKS THAT CAME IN AND HE DIDN'T JUST SIGN THE CHECKS AS TODD BLANCHE ALLEGED, BUT HE WANTED TO KNOW WHERE EVERY PENNY WAS GOING AND HE WAS CAUTIOUS IS ANOTHER WORD THAT HE USED. DONALD TRUMP IS THE ONE THAT RUNS THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND HE'S IN CHARGE AND DAVID PECKER TESTIFIED TO THAT ON NOT ONLY THE ALLEGATIONS OF THE EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIRS. >> AND TALK ABOUT HOPE HICKS. >> WE KNOW THAT SHE WAS ON THE PHONE WITH MICHAEL COHEN, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE KIND OF LIKE THE DAVID PECKER TESTIMONY, WE KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE MORE COMING. BUT THE HOPE HICKS WOULDN'T BE BROUGHT FORWARD AS A WITNESS BY THE PROSECUTION. IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE MORE DETAILS TO SHARE AND THAT IS WHAT AWAITS US. >> THE OTHER PIECE THAT IS SO INTERESTING IN TERMS OF EDUCATING NOT JUST THE JURY BUT THE PUBLIC, IS HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SPENT TO KILL THESE STORIES. I MEAN, A NORMAL NATIONAL ENQUIRER, AND AGAIN, I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THE GOING RATE WAS. BUT $500, OR A THOUSAND BUCKS, THEY WERE DROPPING $30,000 IN THESE TABLOID CATCH AND KILL. >> ABSOLUTELY. AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT DAVID PECKER SAID THAT HE BOUGHT SALACIOUS STORIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF NEVER PUBLISHING THEM AND THEY THREATEN THE DINO THE DOORMAN WITH A MILLION DOLLARS PENALTY IF HE WERE TO REVEAL HIS STORY PUBLICLY ELSEWHERE. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> WELL, JUST TO VAUGHN'S POINT, WHICH IS I KEEP ON SAYING THIS, THIS IS GROUND ZERO OF FAKE NEWS. IF YOU -- I KNOW I'M HERE TO GIVE A LEGAL ANALYSIS. BUT IF YOU MOVE AWAY FROM THE LEGAL NICETIES, I COULD PUT THIS INTO A LEGAL GRID AND WHY IT IS ALL RELEVANT AND HOW IT IS GOING TO PLAY INTO THE SUMMATIONS. BUT LET'S FOCUS ON THE BIG PICTURE. THE PERSON WHO RAN FOR AND BECAME PRESIDENT, THERE IS ONE OF HIS BEST FRIENDS ON THE STAND CREDIBLY SAYING WITHOUT DONALD TRUMP BY THE WAY, TRUTH SOCIALING ABOUT HOW HE'S AWFUL AND CAN'T BE BELIEVED. THERE IS NO ADVERSE COMMENTS ABOUT HIM WHICH IS FASCINATING TO ME, WHICH IS ON THE STAND SAYING THAT WE MANUFACTURED BAD STORIES ABOUT OUR OPPONENTS, WHETHER IT IS TED CRUZ, WHETHER IT IS HILLARY CLINTON, WE JUST CAME UP WITH FAKE STORIES, FAKE NEWS AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO DAMAGING STORIES, WE KILLED THEM. SO THAT WAS SORT OF TO ME THE BIG PICTURE. THE OTHER -- TO SUSAN'S POINT ABOUT CREDIBILITY. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU LOOK FOR IN WITNESSES AND YOU ARGUE AT THE END OF THE CASE IS WERE THEY GUILDING THE LILLY, SAYING EVERYTHING THAT IS BAD ABOUT THIS AND HERE WITH DAVID PECKER, SAYING, YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP WAS SAYING I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED TO PAY FOR THIS BECAUSE IT IS COMING OUT. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY, HE WAS ALL IN FROM DAY ONE. HOW DO WE SILENCE THIS. AND THAT WAS A GOOD THING. AND THE DOORMAN, THAT STORY WAS FAKED AND IT WAS WRONG AND HE COULD HAVE -- IF HE WAS TRYING TO SAY SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING TO DAMAGE DONALD TRUMP, HE WOULD HAVE SAID, OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE COULDN'T BE SURE. THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE. AND SO YOU REALLY -- >> SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS SOME TEMPERMENTAL MODERATION TO HIM AND THE FACT THAT TRUMP ISN'T SAYING DAVID PECKER IS HALF OF THE MEDIA MOGUL, BUT THERE IS NOTHING TO SUGGEST THAT WHAT HE SAID AND WHAT IS DAMAGING TO TRUMP IN TERMS OF ANSWERING WHETHER OR NOT A CRIME WAS COMMITTED IS THE CATCH AND KILL AND IS THE MONEY AND YOU'RE SAYING THAT HE HANGS ON TO EVERY SCRAP OF TREAD CREDIBILITY WITH THESE NUANCES. >> ABSOLUTELY. I DO FIND IT FASCINATING THAT YOU HAVE DONALD TRUMP ATTACKING THE JUDGE, THAT IS ALLOWED. ATTACKING THE LEAD PROSECUTOR, THAT IS ALLOWED. BUT ALSO, DOING THINGS THAT ARE NOT ALLOWED. ATTACKING JURORS AND WITNESSES. BUT IT IS FASCINATING TO ME THAT DAVID PECKER AND HOPE HICKS NOT YET THE SUBJECT OF HIS IRE. SO I DO THINK WE SORT OF -- I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHY, BECAUSE UNLESS DAVID PECKER IS GOING TO REALLY CHANGE ON CROSS, I THINK HE'S GOING TO BE IN HIS SIGHTS. BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO START ATTACKING HIM. AND BECAUSE HE -- I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT MICHAEL COHEN WILL BE THE STAR WITNESS BUT THERE IS A REASON THAT THEY'RE STARTING WITH DAVID PECKER. HE HAD AS THE FULL STORY. >> YOU LISTEN TO AND I WANT TO READ SOME OF IT. I'M NO RACHEL MADDOW BUT I WANT TO READ SOME. I HAVEN'T SEEN A TRANSCRIPT YET. THE TIMELINE IS IMPORTANT AND IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THE PECKER-TRUMP RELATIONSHIP, THE CATCH AND KILL, AND COHEN COMES IN AND IT IS LIKE A CHIEF OF STAFF. BUT IF THE CATCH AND KILL SCHEME IS THE LOVE CHILD, THEY ARE PECKER AND TRUMP. >> BEFORE I GET TO BE A LAWYER, I'LL SAY THAT I FIND IT VERY FASCINATING THAT DONALD TRUMP THE CANDIDATE WHOSE LOCKED IN A COURTROOM FOR SIX WEEKS HAS TO DEAL WITH THIS NEW REVELATION ABOUT HOW THE SAUSAGE IS MADE, TO ANDREW'S POINT AROUND THE FAKE NEWS. NOW IT IS OUT THERE ABOUT HOW THESE MANUFACTURED AND EMBELLISHED STORIES SORT OF MADE YOU THIS SUPER HUMAN CANDIDATE FOR YOUR SUPPORTERS AND I'M CURIOUS HOW THAT IMPACTED THE ELECTORATE FOR DONALD TRUMP THE CANDIDATE. AS FAR AS DONALD TRUMP THE DEFENDANT, I'M SURE WE'LL GET TO THE GAG ORDER AND THAT WAS JUST AN ENTIRE MESS. BUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE PROSECUTION HAS TO DO, WE ALREADY KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN A MYRIAD OF ATTACKS ON THE CREDIBILITY OF OTHER WITNESSES THAT ARE YET TO COME. AND SO FOR THIS TO BE THE FIRST WITNESS THAT THE PROSECUTION PUTS IN FRONT OF THE JURY, WHAT THEY DID WAS LAID THE GROUNDWORK TO SAY, LATER ON, YOU ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE MICHAEL COHEN. YOU MAY NOT THINK HE'S THE MOST CREDIBLE WITNESS. YOU ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE TO SORT OF HOLD STORMY DANIELS IN THE HIGHEST OF REGARD. YOU MAY FEEL LIKE SHE HAS ULTERIOR MOTIVES, BUT DAVID PECKER WHO KNOWS DONALD TRUMP THE BEST HAVE SAID THESE THINGS AND GIVEN US SUCH A FRAMEWORK THAT IS GOING TO BE CORROBORATED AND IT HELPS THEM TO A VERY BIG DEGREE. AND THE OTHER THING THEY IF WELL TODAY WITH PECKER'S TESTIMONY, IS THAT THEY TOOK AWAY THE NOTION OF DONALD TRUMP BEING REMOVED. NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF HIM BEING A MICRO MANAGER AS A BUSINESS OWNER BUT PLACING HIM IN CONVERSATIONS VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT HOW THESE THINGS WOULD RUN. AND TO ACT AS IF YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THIS THINGS IS UNTENABLE. YOU CAN'T MAINTAIN THAT FROM FRONT OF THE JURY SO THAT WAS ANECTIVE DAY BY THE PROSECUTION AND IN TERMS OF SETTING THEMSELVES UP, WITH THE WITNESSES THEY KNOW ARE
