Ancient Human History, Indian Temples, Archeological Treasures & More - Anica Mann | TRS 253

like in this Valley Civilization most of it is in Pakistan a lot of it is in India unfortunately most of it that is in India is still underground in fact I am working on an excavation in rakhi gari the entire Village is on a mount and on top of that mount is a heavily populated Village it also had a port which is found in Gujarat called lothal if you go to the National Archives of India and you see the the library of texts okay take 9 to 10th century and you see the variety that came out sheerism brahmanism vaishnavism shakta Buddhist jainas just their variety of texts the philosophy that came out of India it was mind-bogglingly deep I cannot tell you Randy I used to come out of my classes and my brain was exhausted in places like Cambodia Thailand Indonesia Japan even alike why did they build a big Vishnu Temple anchor what before a Vishnu Temple was built in Cambodia they worshiped Shiva for 200 years so why did they switch to Vishnu immediately and why did Vishnu not stick around because as soon as that particular King died they suddenly switched to Tantric Buddhism why this was one of the most fun conversations of the year and therefore it became one of my favorite conversations of the year because we went extremely deep with the conversation but in a bit of a light-hearted way we debated some points and overall at the end of this episode I was left a much more enriched human being with much more enriched perspectives especially when it comes to history the people who have the biggest say in the world of historical debate according to me archaeologists who dedicate the entire life to understanding the past of humankind this one's a fantastic mind-bending episode Anika man is on the runway show for the first time because she's definitely a TRS All-Star and I use that statement with a lot of caution not everyone's a TRS all stuff we've probably got five or six cumulatively and she's one of five or six best guests that we've had on the show you'll know why at the end of this particular episode for more episodes just like this make sure you follow us on Spotify for Spotify Spotify exclusive which means that every episode is available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world and come on breaking down history on the ranveer show enjoy yourselves [Music] thank you honey come on I'm so pumped about this conversation now you get to see the real run weird because I've been holding back like [ __ ] since we've been talking outside my God teach me about archeology in history what's up hey man how are you doing thanks for having me that sounds so good good where do you actually begin this subject of archeology though you know in pre-history I think which means a lot you take it way way way back the first time man found another man's things you know wow I never thought of that that is how archeology began the first time man found another man's things wow which is supposedly been which is supposedly went oh well I cannot tell I think the first recorded man finding another man's thing comes from the colonialists um take India for example uh the archaeological Survey of India is the main archaeological Vanguard of the country the institution of the country right but it was founded by the British who was the British who was this guy called Alexander Cunningham he wasn't an archaeologist he was a British officer but what what made him an archaeologist he was actually a treasure hunter right so he went around on a hathi on UT you know on an elephant on a camel all around the country from Kashmir to kanyakumari he was the guy who found both Gaia when he found both Gaya both Gaya was not Buddhist it was it was by it was inhabited by Shiva worshipers growing trees on the Pinnacles of the temple but he found it but he didn't find it as something oh I'm going to find it and preserve it he's like oh my God what a treasure I found so let's get these Treasures safeguarded so that we can keep it who was we the institution at the time so that's how archeology essentially began finding Treasures yeah are there still a lot of treasures left to be found oh so many countless Treasures shipwrecks um you know um so I run a project called Global explorer that does satellite remote sensing for archeology or in short space archeology it looks at you you look at Uber satellite view imagery on your phone right all of that is satellite imagery so when you look at satellite imagery from the top and you come down to the Earth and you look under the surface of the Earth you find uh and part of our project we found that only 10 of archeology has been discovered what is archeology it is the history of humans human history the true extent of human history has not yet been uncovered and India is number one in being old okay we are like absolutely number one in being old anywhere you dig you will find something um so yeah you know there's a lot of people who believe that India's number one in being old because of Indian Pride okay but if we just break away from Indian pride and patriotism for a minute and actually look at the science of it is it because we're sort of an equatorial country and when the ice ages happened uh like it's a possibility that our land wasn't covered by the ice you know there is some truth to what you're saying because there's this book called early Indians written by this guy called Tony Joseph right he's not an archaeologist or an anthropologist but he did a good job in collecting facts from secondary sources primarily so I'm not a big fan of secondary sources secondary sources are if you've written a book I'm quoting you but what you've written a book you have read the shastras you've gone to the site that's primary sources first-hand information's primary sources your interpretation of those are is secondary sources so when Tony Joseph wrote that book early Indians he was writing about the earliest humans in India and the one conclusion that he came up to was that India was always heavily populated so I think it could match your theory of like during the Ice Age you know was it more convenient for people to flourish in big numbers in India because of the kind of climactic conditions that existed I would say yes but if you actually study the geography of the globe like where in a tropical Zone subtropical yeah subtropical yeah but doesn't that like patch spread across the whole globe yes so why don't we look at Iran Mesopotamia these places that share um latitude with us yeah as equally populated actually they also have been equally populated and if you look at the earliest interactions of the earliest civilizations they're very much Iran Mesopotamia India Egypt and why is that it's because of that subtra not tropical but subtropical region that they existed in why do we love the Mediterranean so much because the climate is so congenial to all times of the year so in India also while like I come from Delhi where we have four distinct Seasons whereas you come from Bombay which has one season with a dash of rain and with a dash of coal I mean sweatshirt coal right so um over here you could nicely exist throughout the year no problem it suits all climates um so that that logic holds true for subtropical areas where it's convenient to be living long term in this area without moving you know like in Mongolia people would go to warmer terrains in the summer in the winter and stay in colder terrains in the summer you know so we don't have that in India people don't need to buy although the British when they came to India when they came to Delhi they formed their summer capitals in the Hills because they couldn't take the heat so yeah um but again why is India considered the oldest when actually even probably Mesopotamian regions like which I'm assuming is Iran they're contemporary okay it was at the same time Mesopotamia and Indus Valley Civilization or Harappan civilization were contemporary they were trading with each other we have Mesopotamian seals in our country we have Indus Valley Civilization seals in Mesopotamia Iran played a very big role I mean Iran came up a little bit later because they were still hunter-gatherer nomadic for a long time in fact if you look at how the Mughal Empire was formed in India and how Iran played Iran was like you know how the Vatican is for the Christians so for the Muslims who are coming to India Iran played that role of the high Capital the high culture right so they were nomadic for a long time till they came to India and settled and if you look at the history of India everyone was in Sir Christopher Columbus he got lost and then he found America but where was he going to he was coming to India every route map wanted to come to India not only in the early civilized earliest civilization but up to the most contemporary civilizations they want to come to India WhatsApp is making big business in India everyone even big businesses want to come to India right now there's something about the popular the consistent population of India the climate of India the richness of the land of India and by that I mean minerals everything that you need in life you have in this country we're actually very fortunate um [Music] parallel Breakaway uh you know the Indian military is supposed to be like one of the most high quality militaries in the world just because of the variety of terrains in this country and the variety of situations which also probably makes it conducive for all the things that you're saying that it's like a bunch of countries built into one country correct uh which is just geography yeah an outcome of geography in saying that because this is our English podcast uh I don't want to dive too deeply into India I feel like we'll do that on a Hindi conversation uh I want to get like a bit of a world view from an archaeologist's eyes so what is uh the consensus on the human story like everyone knows this thing about how Homo sapiens originated in Africa common sapiens sapiens yeah Homo sapiens and then Homo sapiens sapiens yeah you need to explain that as well as a part of your answer so if if early man originated in Africa they went into the Gulf and then into India yeah is that a correct way of looking at things and then I'm assuming this happened over like thousands of years and people gradually settled then moved on yes um so could you could you kind of dictate that entire story in terms of the first time a homo sapien was born to a monkey well you know in the beginning of this podcast I said only 10 of human history has ever been found right everything that we know about us as humans uh we have put together from everything that we have found from the past and if everything that we found from the past is only 10 of what existed in the past so most of our information is conceived it's like how we know about space right we don't know enough about space it's vast it's hidden it's not visible to the naked eye same thing with archeology same thing with the human history you know it's not visible to us uh we have not found all the evidence what we've put together the consensus the global consensus that we come up to that yes most evidence has been found in Africa humans existed in Africa there were multiple great migrations that happened how do we know that that how do we know that it actually originated in Africa no we I don't think we should ever in terms of History I don't think we should ever make strong statements that this is a fact we should say this is a fact for now because this is what we found now we could find something later that could change the course of our understanding of human history and we need to be open to that like we could all be parts of alien races just coming together on this one this thing is such a trigger for most archaeologists you know I always say this so I remember I was sitting in Goa one day and I had this huge debate and I got reminded of ancient times in India when the Buddhists and the Hindus like shankaracharya debating with the Buddhists you know trying to say that what is valid in philosophy and all of this so I was having this philosophical debate with a gentleman in Goa who had gone deep into this whole alien theory in archeology and human civilization and I kept repeating one thing I said you know I would love to accept your perspective if you give me hard evidence not circumstantial evidence now what is circumstantial evidence circumstantial evidence is oh you look like you have curly hair could you be South Indian that is circumstantial evidence but what is hard evidence is if I take your DNA and do an ancestry scientific analysis on you then I say oh maybe you are South Indian right so that is the difference between circumstance so this whole alien theory is full of circumstantial I don't think think there's any evidence actually it's all theories right and I said this is the one thing that grinds my guess that that um that makes me not accept what you're saying is that you're totally discounting the human feet the whole theory of aliens coming here that oh my God this building is so odd we can't make it now so maybe humans didn't make them at all aliens made them I am not so I'm not going to accept that analogy so easily I think humans are capable of great things they build forts and cabins on top of completely difficult terrains right Machu Picchu the pyramids right you come to India they are they are carving out uh a thousand lingas on the Tunga badra riverbed you know somewhere near hampi um and if you say that no humans cannot do this they're not capable of it I'm I'm not gonna accept that so easily I think we're capable of great things yeah okay let's let's come back to that Ancient Man uh Theory so where the world of archeology stands right now it's a universal assumption that it began in Africa yeah why has that become an assumption like I'm actually just trying to learn I'm not doubting it I'm just trying to understand I still wouldn't call it an assumption I think I would change that word into those that is the evidence we have so that's the fact that we are with right now those facts lead us to that conclusion but as we discover more like for example earlier this year there were prehistoric caves that were found in India just outside Delhi near faridabad now ranges they're the oldest mountain ranges of the world essentially right the shortest Hills but the oldest mountain ranges because completely windy eroded and they found prehistoric paintings over there so what is the evidence of the kind of man that lived there now that those caves don't have any bone fragments or anything so we can't tell anything about the people that live there but when we look at the paintings and the drawings inside the caves what we can positively say is that they had a mind and they had an imagination right so everything that we say about very very very early man is based on a very a small set of data sets so we we are what we are trying to do here you and I is romanticizing those small data sets and say that oh man came from Africa I say what we know right now is man came from Africa but man could have emerged in different parts of the world as well because the climactic conditions of Africa as they were they did exist in other parts of the world now div depends on the now why do we have so much evidence from Africa do you know why because when Africa was partitioned by the colonialists and they went there they investigated the land in that way but certain countries that did not have colonialists coming there they are not investigated in that way so the way we write um so many parts of Southeast Asia Papua New Guinea for example uh Sumatra you know Indonesia Cambodia Thailand still did see the colonialists the French the the British the Portuguese coming in over there but there are so many islands of this country that have broken away from the main landmass that still have human civilization living there the Andaman Central in nice Island I can never pronounce that right but they have the most um pure human civilization uh human kind living there I don't want to call it civilization because we don't know much about them right um so but we haven't investigated that so how can we jump to those conclusions when we don't have the entire range of evidence that can positively say that this is in fact the only fact we could have multiple facts and 90 of history is either lost or not found yet lost not found destroyed because of urbanization you know all of that um so you know when you actually see a cross section of the Earth the crust of the earth is probably just like an eggshell yeah like as thin as an eggshell and then the yolk and the egg white is inside correct which is the magma Etc yeah now just in that egg shell is there still a lot to be dug up oh huge amounts huge amounts let me give you an example when Delhi Delhi has been a capital of the Indian civilized the South Asian civilization for a long time a seat of capital starting from indraprastha you know going to the Mughal Capital going to the British Capital going to the current day contemporary capital and many rules in the current day contemporary Capital have happened as well just recently we saw India Gate completely the central Vista completely revitalized it was recently open looks beautiful but that area of Delhi the central Delhi area is so rich with evidence you go to Old Fort purana Kila in Delhi when you enter Old Fort in Delhi you go up a hill why is there a hill in Delhi Hill comes on Hill comes on the Western Southern side of Delhi but here why it's on a hill because it's on a mound it is one of the most important excavation sites for Delhi you go down to pre-history so when you when you dig through purana killer and you have a the ASR has a museum called the archaeological site Muse Museum over there when you dig down you see the you know like rings on a tree you see layers of human history there you know so yeah uh the the crust is full of let's not even just call it human activity it's full of living activity dinosaurs everything right dinosaurs mammoths um you know Tigers different kind of animals that are now extinct we don't know anything about them it is the crust that holds all of them their bones are decomposing their teeth their hair are decomposing within that and in this decomposing layer also remain relics like the relics of the Buddha so when the Buddha died what did they do they took different parts of the why why did we build stupas what has tupas can you go inside there and there's a big Hall inside no it is a structure of Stucco brick and stone that has a small little room underneath it you know the stupa comes like a sphere and there's a line that goes down to sure there's a small room underneath it and in that room you keep a relic either a hair of the Buddha himself the tooth of the Buddha and when Ashoka came to power he took it out from where it was originally housed and then redistributed it around the country sanchistupa even up to Thailand they have relics of the Buddha so I come to the Buddha because not only do humans have rituals of putting and stashing away their things but even animals when they die when a dog dies what does a dog do I don't know if you've ever had a pet but I'm a crazy dog lady so a dog when it feels sick it always goes in a corner and sits you've seen it in the movies and the dog is dying you know it goes into the forest and hides so it wants to pass away in peace so imagine as living beings have come about in how many corners have how many lives been lived and how many lives have been stashed away in the ground you know intense and we're just getting started yeah um we spoke about how it's possibly originated in Africa human life um this whole thing about migration of man all across the globe Etc I've read so much about it lately especially keeping this global warming and Global freezing or global cooling periods in mind uh I mean and please correct me if I'm wrong but the basic theory is that the Earth keeps going into warming and cooling periods certainly which dictate water levels on the earth which hides and exposes land masses absolutely for example uh where North America is connected to Russia right now uh it's just a thin piece of land right now I think it's barely even land it's just water right now yeah but it actually used to be a connected landmass a massive landmass and the human migration happened that way that what said is that they originated Out of Africa came to India spread all over Asia then went into North America and went up to South America and Europe also happened bad really yeah uh is that accurate and have they been able to predict this human migration because of uh kind of finding out the timelines of relics that are found I think it's geography and history that goes together if you if you figure out the history of geography that means you see how land masses have also evolved on their own how ridges are found how clefs are formed how Cliffs are formed how okay you're talking about Russia and America in 2017 I took a 9 000 kilometer road trip around this country by myself right I went to you know where India connects with Sri Lanka uh that area is very similar you know uh to what you're talking about between Russia and um America because there uh where the RAM setu and all they say right I don't know about that about the Ram setu or anything but I can say that the landmass over there is so shallow that up to the most recent past Sri Lanka and India were connected visibly you see uh that area is called dhanushkoti dhanushkodi is close to a small town called rameshwaram where apj Abdul Kalam came from rameshwaram is a holy city and then dhanushkodi was a Portuguese uh sorry a Dutch um Outpost and in uh earlier times when the Dutch was there a terrible tsunami came and totally washed that place off now that place looks like a dystopic landmass absolutely stunning I cannot tell you how beautiful India is by the way when I took this trip around this country but when I went there I remember to go to that area we had to go via an RTV bus you know those High um suspension buses on an RTV bus to that area in the water and while I was on that bus I saw in a distance about it it felt like about two kilometers out in the water there was a man in his Lungi folded up just walking on the water it looked like he was walking on the water but the water is so shallow so the history of geography plays a very important role in understanding movement of living creatures for that matter does it also play a role in explaining things like Atlantis hey man let's talk about dwarka because like recently in India of the Gujarat course there are so many cities that have so much actually recently in the news so many cities have emerged out of the water because water has just dried out you know uh close to them so um you know when I was a child I used to love the story of Atlantis you'll have to give the people a 101 on the story on the story of Atlantis it's a mythical realm that drowned underwater after long time short story but I can give you a story about Indian Atlantis that is dwarka right just off the course of Gujarat it was um a city a well-planned city that could have been a dockyard a huge trading port for the country essentially with the rest of the world especially Africa and Europe and Central Asia and all of that that eventually got submerged underwater um I currently work with the archaeological Survey of India and underwater archeology is a big priority for us where you need to go underwater and see what is there how what is the extent of that land mass how big did India look in the past or how different did it look in the past why are you saying priority priority because it is a I mean it's the main what is the Mandate of the archaeological Survey of India it's three things exploration excavation conservation so exploration of the underwater Heritage also is a priority for the country there aren't so many experts in Marine archeology actually when I did my first Masters I studied the school of Oriental and African studies I went there primarily because they had a course in Marine archeology unfortunately for me I think but unfortunately for me the professor who was teaching it went on a sabbatical so I actually ended up specializing in esoteric Indian religions or Tantra in South Asia and Southeast Asia so yeah is dwarka and all these like submerged parts of India a point of interest for the global world of archeology as well like are they looking at this particular region of the world as the next big historical digging site not as I wouldn't call it the next big but a very important site of Interest so we have a terminology in archeology called AI area of Interest right uh why are they important first of all because they're the first Connecting Point with other civilizations dwarka that could have been submerged right now could have been a point a port where other people were interacting with India so from that global perspective they play a very critical role like Indus Valley Civilization most of it is in Pakistan a lot of it is in India unfortunately most of it that is in India is still underground in fact I'm working on an uh excavation in rakhi gari rakhi gari is in Hisar in haryana and it's a village the entire Village is on a mound that means the entire Village lives on a civilization that existed probably uh 10 000 BCE now we call it uh before Common Era early it used to be before Christ but now we call it before Common Era and CE instead of a d is called Common Era so 1000 BCE the people that were staying there you know um that area has filled up with dust so thus there is a mound that is found and on top of that mound is a heavily populated Village and we are conducting excavations over there so the reason I'm talking about Indus Valley civilizations because that is the first civilization of India that had Direct contacts with the rest of the world it also had a Port which is found in Gujarat called lothal so places like lothal that were receiving people from Mesopotamia from Central Asia and from where all we don't even have the evidence because we can't read the Harappan script right otherwise we would know a lot more information um they serve a very important role in showing human interactions you see human interactions that are transcontinental wow okay um why are we taught in history textbooks that it's only 2500 or 3000 years old like I remember these numbers and I remember reading them in fifth standard thinking to myself that you honestly can't be that uh short if Ancient Man apparently originated three lakh years ago yeah you know a textbooks simplify information for what can be absorbed I don't mean to justify what's what information is in our textbook but it is very um subjective to the audience right but once you get into Academia and you really truly get into history right and history is one of those subjects it's either for you or it's not if it either makes you sleep or stay up at night right for me it made me stay up at night um for some people space makes them stay up and because the vastness of it is so Grand right so I see history in the same way the vastness of it the Uncharted Territory of it is so Grand but still it's in our control we're still here we don't need a rocket ship to go there you know so it it really gets me very excited um but what I said in the beginning we have 10 of the evidence that we need to truly understand our origin story so when you condense that for a eighth standard kid or if standard kit you really are giving very basic information and the most legitimate information that is more information comes out the person has the capability of expanding their interpretative skills but at least let us give them most basic like the earliest evidence of civilization of man early history of man and civilizational history of man have a big gap and that Gap is not because early man was not civilized or was a barbarian is because maybe we don't have so much evidence if you go to the cave paintings that are found around the world the quality of them is so fantastic you see Bisons and the way they they make cattle they make bow wines they make up you know animals of prey in the kind of detail that they make it and the way they show that man together are hunting and gathering in those paintings I think there is a certain organizational level that we are not um you know revealing so much because we just don't have the information for it it's all interpretative right so yeah okay fair does the world of archeology now uh still believe that uh in terms of the geography of the Indus Valley Civilization that it was around the north India and Pakistan area because I think I read somewhere that apparently now they're discovering that even places like Banaras which are far more on the East were existing at the same time as the Indus Valley uh civilization as in what we're told was the Indus Valley Civilization yam the Indus Valley Civilization spread in India is very vast most of it is unexcavated sites or mildly excavated sites uh rakhi gari is one of them dhola Vira I want to talk about dholavira for a second okay because it also comes near a sea area it is on the india-pakistan border in Gujarat you know the place ran of Kutch right it's a salt desert probably the most difficult place for not only man to live but man to grow food to eat or drink water but right in the center of this desert back in 2000 or even 1 500 BCE not only did man stay there but built a citadel built an entire civilization learned technique to filter salty water uh we have water all around us but not a drop to drink that's what you see about say about ocean water but they found a way to filter out that water grow food create uh trade objects and set up an entire city there how did they do that when I went to dholavira I went there for a week-long survey with my team from America within the first day evening my heal store you know when you have too much dry your skin cracks my heel stores I wondered how did Man live here so many many many many many years ago and it baffles like it blew my mind about the human capability so that's when people say oh you know in the middle of a salt desert someone has come and set up an entire maybe aliens did it I was like no man that's just rude you know come on like I think we can do this right so it really is um human history goes back and back but again I cannot say this enough what we found is so little the theories that we're trying to weave are so Grand that maybe we found a lot more they would be even grander right okay do you believe in this whole Consciousness Revolution that apparently happened I think it was in 25 000 BCE where suddenly cultures are developing I think I read about it in sapiens if I'm not I think cultures started developing far earlier than that if you look at prehistoric cave paintings uh not only in India but around the world and the way they flourished right um there is a beautiful mind that is creating them so I think humans and their mind and their intellectual power their knowledge their thirst for newer experiences existed right when they started hunting I think you know to hunt an animal that looks much bigger than you takes a lot of guards you know even if it is a herbivore for that matter even if you're hunting like a grass eating animal but it's larger than you it's uh stronger than you it's probably a herd animal most herbivores are herd animals but for man to think that I'm going to kill this and I'm gonna eat this while he is with his friends is a grand idea so Consciousness I think developed very very early on but this is just my personal opinion what is this Theory though because I think even Graham Hancock has spoken about this on Joe Rogan's podcast he said that he's attributed this expansion of the human mind to psychedelics like Ayahuasca magic mushrooms these things I've had both experiences I've had an Ayahuasca experience I've had a psilocybin experience with shamans I felt like a different person after both and I can totally understand where this Theory comes from because I've seen the changes in my own mind higher levels of self-assurance higher levels of creativity Etc I'm not recommending that people go for these things but in saying that I want to ask you if you believe that psychedelics have actually played a role in The Human Experience so in India for example uh you're a yoga practitioner right Consciousness is the main thing that a lot of yoga practice helps expand tap into breathing exercises clear your mind uh breathing exercise and certain yoga uh varieties can open up your mind and take you to transformative transcendental meditative States right if you use breathe pure oxygen for 10 minutes you could get high right um so talking about just Consciousness and expanding that certainly if you have the Right Aid you could do that man has been doing that for a long time whether it's using drugs or whether it's using just air around you and your body practice um other than that when you go to the text when you do a Hoven for example in Hindu rituals we have a heaven and we put water gangajal uh you offer it to the gods and stuff like that there was a term that was used for it called soma right there are certain brands that are called soma right now but Soma was uh considered by most Scholars and I say Scholars not only High Scholars here in India but also indologists indology by the way is the study of India through its primary texts you do not uh study about India from anything else other than what was written in India by the person not his scribe but by the person which is what like right yoga Sutra umiti um all the sadhana manuals the ramayana the Mahabharata are actually other kind of texts they are like prose and poetry essentially but philosophical deeply philosophical texts that came out from kashmiri chevism from Banaras from South India you know so many texts I mean if you go to the National Archives of India and you see the the library of texts just in one century period okay take nine to ten century and you you see the variety that came out from him and forget Hinduism brahmanism vaishnavism shakta Buddhist jainas just their variety of texts so I studied indology right I went to the University of Oxford did an M Phil In classical Indian religion where my main study was reading Sanskrit and translating manuscripts over there so when you study that and you see human philosophy like the philosophy that came out of India it was mind-bogglingly deep I cannot tell you Randy I used to come out of my classes and my brain was exhausted because in one shloka the depth that it took you to the human mind of understanding your Consciousness this whole practice if you just go into Indian texts of understanding consciousness of breaking it down unpacking it it will blow your mind like for example what like in terms of I'm sure this happened at least five years ago my um uh Oxford um it happened 2015. [Music] [ __ ] ten years ago man I've stayed in your head like they they are my life's principles essentially so let me give you an example yeah one of my favorite Scholars is this scholar called abhinava Gupta from Kashmir he functioned in the 19th century he wrote a very important books called the Tantra Sara and the Tantra loka he talked about shebism he was a worshiper of Lord Shiva is he alive he functioned in the 19th century oh yeah okay sorry Gupta sounds like a modern so yeah no no no no no no he is very different than that um but he wrote this text and this is what I studied when I was at Oxford we were translating this text and he talked about kashmiri shebism kashmiri chefism what is chevism is the worship of the cult of Shiva and all his Associated deities Ganesha Parvati all of that and in that he formulated a theory and I'm not going to get into it right now because it's too deep and also one needs to understand how does one practice and study their religion you have to be initiated into it they're different ways right but he came up with this theory of the three kashyapism right where he placed the female identity very much at the center of the male identity okay now let's take this is a philosophy okay this is the mind now let's look at material culture what things we can see tangible things if you see an index structure it is generally pyramidal in nature never Square do you ever see a square temple in India no even buddhistam both Gaya it's triangular almost phallic there is another kind of Temple that is called the yogini temple or the female Temple you know how it is it is circular the parliament of India you've seen the Parliament building it's circular it is designed after the yogini temple the yogini temple is circular and the male Temple is phallic and that is the union that leads to Creation you see this is a philosophy that India made into 3D now when we look at these temples around us right um you look at any important Temple okay if you look at the South Indian temples you look at the East Indian temples you look at the West Indian temples you look at the jaina temples which are they don't have so many gods and goddesses outside them but they are highly geometrical psychedelically geometrical but each design has a very vital meaning of philosophy behind it you look at the kajrao temples we talk about the khajra temples a lot you know the imagery out there the they have nothing on the odisha temples if you go to konak the vantage point of the absolutely outrageous sexual imagery that exists on that and the angle that you can see from and what the sculpture is making you see and why is it outside and not inside the temple there's very deep meaning behind it and this is the deep meaning that sex is just a fringe layer of life and then as you go in sex leads to Creation number one and yes sex is part of normal life everyday life so what you see outside the temple is essentially a cosmology of activities of gods of goddesses of methunna couples you know couples in Amorous love and all of that it is a representation a of our society but be also for universe that churns the ocean in such a way that leads to the austerity of the central sanctum inside a temple when you go to the very Central sanctum inside the temple you'll see it is the most simple the most unadorned space you know it looks like a kutia you know like how old houses may have been completely no design just a deity in the center and a deep in front of it why it is because when you look outside the grandness of it leads you inside to The Silence of the god right but you look at Greece for example you could be standing right in the center of the Parthenon right which is pillars pillars pillars but you feel like you can't see it you have to go far and see it that's when you see the entire cosmology of it but in an Indian temple for example you have to keep it keeps drawing you in because outside there is this replete imagery but there's so much that you have to come close and focus on it and once you focus on it and you go around what do you do what is the ritual of going to a temple you go to a temple you bow your head you look for a Ganesha statue you put your right shoulder to the Ganesha statue and then you go around the temple once you go around and circum ambient is the process of circumambulation you go around the temple then you go inside the temple then you spend a moment in the mandapa of the temple that is the outside Terrace of the inside inner sanctum you stand there you pray to the god you go inside and then you pray to the god what is the main thing that you do to the to while you praying to the god you do darshan right they always say I'm going to do darshan what is darshan you look at the eyes of the god when a temple is made for example the last ritual that is done to open the temple to the public is incising the eyes of the God because you are supposed to look into the eyes of the god and make your prayers that is for the Common Man the initiate however and depends on the level of initiates right um uh has a different form of practice as well and depends on the realm that you are from are you a shakta are you a Sheva are you a vaishnava are you do you say Jai Shri Ram do you say om namah shivaya or do you say Ma you know because you're an Indian archaeologist um working with the archaeological Survey of India I'm assuming you've gone to a lot of temples all over the country uh have there been temples where parts of them are not allowed to be excavated or not allowed to be explored yeah there are what is the reason for that instability of the structure okay there's nothing like you know how in uh they say that the pyramids you unlock a part of it and curses get unlocked there's one in India also no there's a temple in the South yeah temple in the South where there is walls of wealth inside it gold wealth and all of that and the door looks like it's a very cursed door I've not been to that site myself I also think that's a bit of a conspiracy theory but there are several parts I mean see so okay this is a joke we make in the ASI they say it bhangar fort in Jaipur is haunted right nothing happened to that man there is a guard there's a security guy there every single day day and night nothing happened to him but yet you know there are certain having said that I'll say another thing Angkor Wat which is the largest temple in the world in it's in Cambodia um the way the temple was made okay there are many things I want to say about that Temple but the way the temple is made there was this one scholar called Eleanor Monica she did a study on the movement of energy around the temple she measured that Temple and she found the temple to have very precise um Dimensions very precise down to the decimal you know and then when you go to a temple like I said earlier you circumambulate the temple so when a flow of people of devoted devotees happens constantly over decades and over centuries in a certain way energy gets channelized right so she even took scientific instruments over there to measure is there a certain energy movement of energy and she did find that so like I said earlier there are various forces that exist beyond our capability to access and we must test use our signs to see if they they do exist in that way so there are many places that we can't go to because they are unstable um there are many places we can't go to because people's beliefs are so strong that you cannot make it a scientific inquiry lab you have to allow continuity of worship or whatever so yeah that happens all the time one supplemental question here is are there uh secret or hidden Chambers in a bunch of these temples slash places of worship there are many chambers that are shut to the public for example in the Red Fort the most beautiful part of the Red Fort is the Queen's hamam it is the most delicately carved marble of the Queen's Bath and nobody's allowed to go there and why it's because the marble is so soft over there that if General traffic got there all the time it would all crack and you know gray and it would just disintegrate so there are many chambers in many places the other thing is in a lot of Mughal monuments in and around Delhi you know even if you go as far as Sunni path some of them came up with tunnels that lead all the way to Delhi you see and those chambers are shut for example right they're shot for security reasons and stuff like that so there are many things like that but if you're talking about are they shut because of spiritual inhabitation or some kind of metaphysical reasons at the ASI we believe not uh at the ASI we put things out of access primarily to conserve them and to stabilize the monument gotcha um okay we just spoke about God and the metaphysical realm and everything that's outside the material run this mic you and me Human Society human civilization what I've understood is you do believe in some sort of a higher power or things beyond what the eyes can see your ears can hear etc etc uh we're getting into history is the vastness of it and you've just realized how much you don't know about history yeah even though you've dedicated your life to archeology and history yeah uh so the deeper you go into history do you realize these kind of metaphysical uh things even more deeply and was that a part of the studies you had related to Tantra etc etc did you kind of look at all these things and almost think to yourself yeah Harry Potter could have happened yeah you know sometimes I do feel that um like important Scholars historic Scholars of India who chose austerity went into the forest you know meditated upon things for the longest time and then wrote these books the kind of books they have written I'm reading their words and mind you when they're writing this book it's not like I was just writing today I woke up and it it's in prose that means they're writing in Sanskrit right they're writing in Sanskrit in such a way and Sanskrit in prose is written that everything has a meter right when you say Sanskrit verses it has a meter right and you have to restrict yourself in that media so imagine the vocabulary that they had to um dwell into to keep it to that meter so that you can chant it out the things that you chant are in a particular rhythmic fashion right that's what a meter is and when you do things in a rhythmic fashion it creates a kind of vibration around you which channels the ATM atmosphere around you a certain way from a more biological level like in in yoga we have something called Cosmic chance which is basically this exactly that and because you're chanting it out it sets your breathing pattern in a certain way the breathing pattern has an effect on your heartbeat your heartbeat heart and your heartbeat has an effect on your mind yeah and therefore once you've chanted a cosmic chant or a Bhajan or a sloke you feel calm you feel calm because actually breathing better places if you've ever been to a yoga ashram or a place where people are in constant practice of respect of the environment you notice that there is a different energy right you notice that there is a lightness to the air you notice that there's a fragrance to uh that air why it's not because of the agarbatti it's because people have been working that environment in a certain way the whole time that the wheel has been set in Motion in that way you see so certainly the environment around you can be channelized as well yeah have you ever experienced Tai Chi by any chance yes in Japan I lived in Japan for two years and you know when I experienced it it's a funny story so I went to Japan whereas the peak of my youth my golden years when I was 25 right so I lived in Kyoto which is uh the Imperial City and just the most beautiful human civilization that I have seen in current days uh who have absolute respect for people around them space nature and everything so Kyoto is a city that is a valley surrounded by Hills on three sides pierced right in the center by the kamagawa river which is a very shallow River so when we used to go out on weekends we used to sit by the kamagaba river and my home uh was on a slight Hillside just 10 minutes away from there I went to kyota University or Kyoto daigaku as they call it over there and my home was right next to it right above my home in Kyoto because it is also very religious City they have five kanji symbols or Chinese character is carved into the mountain so wherever you're standing in Kyoto when you look up at the hills you can see those characters and once a year they burn those characters which is like how we do shrad we we talk about we mourn our ancestors they also have a born festival Where They Mourn their ancestors and then they set that on fire no not I mean yes it is a realm of uh but this is a this is a kind of a festival there okay you know so um I lived below one of these signs so one day on a regular Saturday we were having a drink and you know the night just went into the morning and I said I have the best idea let's climb this hill and on top of the hill the grandmas and the grandpas who take their morning walks they do this you know the Japanese radio comes on with aerobics right and Tai Chi sometimes so let's go and catch the grandmas and grandpas up there and do tai chi with them and that was my first experience with them yeah dragons huh [Applause] dude you gotta get me fired I'll give you the art historical perspective on it [Music] give it to us but also why is it bad for an archaeologist to talk about these things beyond the Realms of what we know is it because there's a lack of evidence yeah I feel if there's a lack of evidence definitely that conversation can go bad like you can go into any realm and then you then you don't even know where to stop this right dragons we haven't found them but we found drawings of them everywhere representations of them everywhere in China we all know it in India Indonesia uh southeast Asia Indonesia I'm saying southeast Asia and Indonesia are you know in the same region um we find drawings of these sea animals called Makara okay and what happens is when you enter a temple especially in Southeast Asia at the doll until you might see it in Bali you know you might have this face coming out and all of these kind of water like um designs around it and that animal is called the Makara which is the Sea Dragon it is a sea animal that you know again it is representative of Creation in a certain way of Destruction in a certain way alike but very similar to a dragon you know similarly when you go towards South America Etc again they have certain representations that connect a sea animal that has um unnatural capabilities like fire may come out from its mouth or wind a gust of wind may come out from his mouth or it can Wallop or eat anything or swallow anything so these mythologies that were created you see the first gods for humans were always the Natural Forces Surya uh the Sun the wind the fire right most religions across religions you will see the beginning part of something that you worship or something that you were scared of then that's something that you Worship You worship water then it began you worship see then you worship the demons that live within the Seas why do dragons and these sea monsters become popular because seafaring became very popular in society man had started building ships and boats and they were going over the waves do you think man understood what a typhoon was that time do you think they understood how a 10-foot wave can come up and Destroy entire civilizations no they gave it in certain names and those names are not tsunami and typhoon those names were dragons and sea monsters um okay but that also doesn't discount the possibility that they could have been Mega fauna which probably had some sort of capabilities yeah the sad part is yeah you know when there are um uh Maritime animals the evidence gets lost in um the ocean in the ocean so you what you don't have evidence for remains a mythology what you have evidence for becomes a fact um or parallely when you're talking about flying creatures dances are they had hollow bones and hollow bones erode very fast yeah do you study megafauna these big animals not at all so my area my period of study whenever you meet a historian or you meet an archaeologist uh they generally specialize in a very small time period because in that small time period only you will never finish your study in one lifetime you see so my time period actually begins from early 6th Century uh CE and goes to the late 12th century CE so a good six centuries uh that I primarily study other than that I love studying the origins of Buddhism and the expansion of Buddhism which started from like 500 BCE probably and goes on to why did you choose that time period that's 600 to 1200 ish because my what what fascinated me most about studying history was the idea of India and the rule all India played in the larger Asian identity in the ancient and early medieval period India at that particular point in time you see this time India had six universities [Music] one more these universities were so Grand they were Buddhist and Hindu universities alike right they were so Grand that people from right up to Japan from Cambodia from Thailand from China were coming to India Hyun sang I Ching all of these Chinese Scholars why did they come to India because India was a throbbing motherland of civilization of culture of intelligence with these universities India was what Oxford is to the world or what Harvard is to the world and in fact there is epigraphic epigraphy means inscriptions right translating of in the science of studying inscriptions there are inscriptions in Indonesia there are inscriptions in Cambodia that says that if you want to go to study in nalanda you must give a preliminary Sanskrit exam here once you pass then you will go to India to study you go in current day to sarnath you've been to Varanasi did you go to sarna yes so in sarnath is a very funny ASI metal board please do not put gold on the building when these people came from far away lands whether Indian or outside India to these universities their main form of devotion you see in the Indica we have Karma right in that you want to accumulate Merit you give donations when you give a donation when you give a bench why do you give a bench as opposed to just food because if I give you food as a donation once you eat the food my Merit is one point but if I give you a chair every time someone sits on that chair I get married my family gets married so thus it's a much more tangible gift so when people came to these universities their gift to the institution was taking gold foil and putting it on the building now if every Pilgrim Pilgrim or every scholar did that you can just imagine that these buildings were gilded in gold and Shining with wealth we all know that Buddhism cease to exist in India in the mid medieval period it was wiped out of India and raced out of India in three waves and then it went to it went through two directions outside the country the northern route in the southern route he went towards Sri Lanka it went towards Tibet China southeast Asia eventually to Japan right how was it wiped out it was wiped out primarily because Buddhism was essentially attacked by rival religions these universities like nalanda vikramshila takshila was set on fire they were burning the libraries of nalanda were burning the texts were rapidly taken and taken to Nepal and stuff like that so my dissertation at Oxford when I studying classical Indian religion was translating a manuscript from 11th century vikramashila which is a highly transric sadhana manual sadhana is like meditation when you're within the realm of Tantra and you're following a particular culture for God then in your daily religious practice you're supposed to pray four times a day and where you're supposed to pray how are you supposed to pray and this is a manual that allows you to do Transcendental Meditation so I was translating and transcribing it translating it obviously from Sanskrit to English in Hindi transcribing is it was written in Sanskrit but in a very tedious language so most tantric literature is not straightforward it is called Gupta Vidya you have to be an initiate to understand the true meaning of the words that are used over there like poetry like is it it is poetry but poetry that is that has a concealed Vidya that has a concealed knowledge within it it could mean that you must pray to the Lotus daily but in tantric texts the Lotus is not essentially the flower the Lotus actually means the female vagina so you know so you have to know these things you have to be initiated you have to have years of study before you understand the true meaning of what is written in the text so that you can meditate upon it properly and you can visualize the god properly we all know that in in the way we pray when we set up a regular prayer altar you have certain religion you have certain rituals that lead up to actually accessing the deity first you clean the area any religion choose any religion first you will clean the area you know you will make it inhabitable for the deity himself to come over there then you will feed you will clothe the date you obeyed the date you would feed the deity and then you would say goodbye to the deity and then you would apologize to the deity right so all of these things how they are done uh is very different from one God to the other and the purpose of why you're praying to that God earlier we had many rituals for rain making for example that was one of the main reasons that indic religions were adopted in Southeast Asia in places like Cambodia Thailand Indonesia Japan even alike why did they build a big Vishnu Temple anchor what is the largest temple in the world it's a Vishnu temple why did they build it before a Vishnu Temple was built in Cambodia they worshiped Shiva for 200 years so why did they switch to Vishnu immediately and why did Vishnu not stick around because as soon as that particular King died they suddenly switched to Tantric Buddhism why the reasons is because religion provided that tool for State Building for for Royal patronage for beautifying the king into a God himself he becoming the theological head of the society what does it mean theological head of the society I myself am the god the god resides in me there are many rituals that have happened that the god resides in me now why Vishnu Vishnu was be and and why the biggest temple for Vishnu because Vishnu is a deity that is usually worshiped when you want to consolidate an already large empire you want to consolidate it and you want to give people like I am here to stay things are not about Warfare right now things are about State Building right now okay why Transit Buddhism because that time the state was under attack so that religion gave them the tools to defend their um enemies the Vietnamese were attacking cambodians the thighs were attacking cambodians at that time suddenly they switched to Tantric Buddhism ready I don't know if you've seen Lara Croft yeah in that there are these temples in Cambodia which have faces coming out yeah this was a temple that I wrote my first dissertation on right and these temples Buddhist temple and the largest building program occurred in this country in mid-12th Century Cambodia while they build these temples they also built the largest network of hospitals what does that evidence tell us a the king is expanding the realm of his kingdom B while he's expanding the realm of this King Kingdom there is a lot of warfare because he's building institutions to tackle the injured soldiers hospitals right see he built the largest network of libraries as well while he's expanding his troops are still being kept busy with books and being centered to that thing so you see religion serves several purposes but coming back to your original question I studied um India and that time period because I was interested in the role that India played towards the larger Asian identity towards building an Asian identity something that is very seldom explored in India I think last it was explored in the most deep way was when the tagoras were you know building Shanti niketan and they were inviting the Japanese and Chinese Scholars alike to Bengal and they were going into the Asian they were not about they're very much about the Indian identity but they were about the rule of India to the world and I think that is something that still I think I have a purpose there you know I have a mission in my mind to study history from that perspective to talk about the depths of intellectual um you know Brilliance of our country philosophical Brilliance uh one last question I have for this particular episode and I'm really stopping myself from asking you further about like what you just spoke about I just got warmed up right now good in here um does the word of archeology generally get very fascinated with Egypt ancient Egypt because I believe that the Egyptians that we know of consider themselves to be a modern civilization and they consider an even more ancient civilization to be the actual Egypt where they some people say that entities like raw Isis Osiris I believe was the name actually existed as Kings or Queens back then so what how does the modern world of archeology look at Egypt so my boss is actually an egyptologist she she first of all her name is Sarah barkak and she's alive she's alive um she actually is a dead price winner she won a million dollars to do her work in Egypt and this is the project that I actually brought to India I raise funds for it from Tara trust and I am deploying satellite remote sensing a lab and Archeology which is called space archeology for the archaeological Survey of India this was my first project which is still yet to be deployed and totally harnessed in ASI but we're working hard every day but she is an egyptologist and um she um she would better be able to answer the questions about Egypt I'm not an egyptologist I am my focus is on Asia and I just do not I I might not even know my facts about Egypt that well because I focus so much in Asia Cambodia Thailand Japan uh uh Korea and all of those areas and I still consider myself a student of History I don't ever and I've taught in a university I work for the ASI my hands are rough like an archaeologist's hands uh but I will still always consider myself a student of History so in terms of Egypt yes the storytelling of the Egyptian history has been done not only in textbooks that are school books in Egypt but also abroad and also in the movies so well right so so well in fact my boss Sarah when she started using satellite imagery for Egypt in a spanner for years she actually found thousand new pyramids several digging holes now the main work that we do why we use satellite remote sensing for archeology is because countries like Egypt Italy and India are one of the biggest victims of illegal trafficking of Antiquities what does that mean if there is an unsecured Temple you could go to that Temple and you could break a sculpture you could sell it in the black market which would find itself in a big Museum or a big auction house and would sell for millions of dollars it is at par the illegal trade of Antiquities is that at par uh with drugs and ammunitions the world over so much that there are laws against it right but that is what made Egypt a big victim of antiquity looting made Italy a big victim of antiquity looting currently you will hear a lot of stories that India is getting this sculpture back the British museum is full of Indian loot it is very true it is it is a true fact um and Egypt you know really suffered because it was the first country whose history became really popular I am again not an expert on Egyptian history but when you look at the gods that you did mention you know Rai says if you look at the origins of those Gods their Origins are in the forces of nature in the natural forces that are Beyond human capabilities that are Beyond human understanding at the time that they were you know not understood so um yes in terms of Egyptian history they've gone a very far way to capture popular imagination India is number one and being old has so many stories but they still exist at a meta level I think also in our country I hate to say this and I urge it's my plea and prayer to everyone I feel like we need to stop taking our history and our culture for granted and really get into it you know we take it for granted because in our daily homes as Indians we're very cultural beings in our daily homes we have things that make us uh cultural people not like in America in America it's a choice but we grew we grew up with culture or all around us so we tend to take it for granted but at the same time we also consider ourselves Experts of culture you know it happens like this in that house you're from that community so you might have these practices you're from this community you might have these and you think you're an expert but it is a science culture is an invisible visceral deep science that has the deepest truths about human intelligence so we should never take it for granted why a temple is built a certain way or why is a burial done a certain way why are you being buried with pots and pans and jewelry alike you know every culture could have a different reason for doing that even though they may be doing it in the same way so yeah in in saying that I want to ask you one final question on the show maybe it's a yes or no answer uh do you believe or do you know if geopolitics plays a role in revealing or hiding certain aspects of History yeah it does okay because if everything is revealed it will change the way humans look at themselves I mean humans look at themselves in so many ways and geopolitics is so sort of uh deeply ingrained from early societies into the the nature of man you know my territory my land um my domestication my animals uh I want rain now I want to build a wall I want to you know all of this this is all geopolitics right it's like protecting your resources for Generations I don't know I'm not so sure of generations to come as much as protecting your resources for the course of your lifetime and the life that you have in Visage for your children yeah yeah uh this is this is what bothers me a little bit about where history and historical research stands today it's still dictated by Rich and powerful people in terms of what's available in the public domain and we don't know what we don't know I wish I wish the rich and powerful people I actually do want to make a call to action right now I wish we rich and powerful people of India invested into their history and their culture as much as they talk about it let me tell you philanthropy in this country for archeology is so backward so bad besides one big uh business House of India I I challenge all cultural practitioners to find me one consistent other business house in this country that has continuously and in a sustained way done filler not Returns on investment not investment I don't want to hear the term Returns on investment when you invest in Indian culture and Indian history and Indian archeology I want to hear philanthropy right I don't want to hear your branding exercise when you talk about philanthropy I want to talk about how do you donate a give grants not even donate nobody wants a donation it's a grant right you check the progress of the grant but you don't look for what I am getting back if you I challenge the cultural practitioners to find me the business houses even from today or yesteryears apart from one consistent one and I'll say it out aloud it's the tatas because you have museums that are full of Tata and you have the Tata trust which is 125 year old organization it is one that has run a magazine called the Marg magazine funded it solely throughout which is one of the most important cultural journals consistent and sustained cultural journals of this country but apart from that family I don't think anybody big business house in this country has done any large-scale tangible sustained work there's always a one-off here in there but it's not as if their mission is focused towards preserving India's culture it's never focused towards that they all and whenever they do that also they do it in their own name and that's not philanthropy philanthropy is true philanthropy is funding the existing structures of India fund excavations at the archaeological Survey of India fund building out archaeological sites so that we can understand the true extent of our human history but it does not exist so there is a big dichotomy in this country and I I I I would like to devote my entire life towards it where I want to explain to people you know if you love Indian culture you must give back to it and the way you give back to it is not taking control of it is give assistive care to the existing institutions in this country that are doing that work don't try and reinvent the wheel support the existing Carriage what's the deeper call to action can we have a link or like like how do you actually begin that process because there's a lot of people I mean the simplest way to do it uh the archaeological Survey of India has a national culture fund where a lot of people can give um financial aid to the archaeological Survey of India to conduct its main activities which is exploration excavation conservation so that I mean I mean I'm not here to put out that call to action it's not my call to action but in general I want to say if you truly care about Indian culture you could practice it in your homes but you have to give back to society in a way where you know and I've worked in a bank by the way handling a cultural fund and I saw big business houses coming and they asked that question but what is our return on investment I and I was like I think I need to give you um you know a class about how philanthropy Works how CSR Works how investing Works how marketing works when you're investing and you're doing marketing ask that question but when you're doing CSR and when you're doing um philanthropy you know you do the deed and you follow up on the legitimacy of the person but you don't look for what you're getting back then you be on top of the People by all means that they should achieve what they have taken I mean read those utilization certificates to the T okay but you don't ask that what am I getting back is my name being flashed in some report that's not true philanthropy honey come on thank you for a blockbuster episode wow thanks for having me yeah my own personal concern with continuing this podcast in general is where will we find our next guests I obviously love run out of guests and then people like you come along so crazy you were built for the world of podcasting oh really yeah yeah oh thank you uh I feel there's a 100x larger amount of data to unpack with you which we'll do over the course we didn't even get into hardcore archeology and like exploration and what size have I been to we just talked about you know a large um you know things that are like really around us right now so maybe next time we can go deeper into it yeah yeah it gives me a lot of Joy knowing that you come to Bombay often so uh we will figure something we are friends now we will meet this was so much fun now you understand why I was pumped about this particular episode like I read your name on a schedule and I was pumped maybe like a couple of months ago because I think it got scheduled a couple of months ago uh like it's been two months leading up to this and I'm so happy yeah thank you thank you so much this meant a lot cheers fantastic that was the episode for today the first ever episode that we did with Anika man I enjoyed every single minute of this conversation as you can tell if you're listening until this point I'd love recommendations from you guys the audience in terms of who else you'd want to see on the show are there more archaeologists that you'd like to see on the show are there more historians you'd like to see on the show please let us know in the comment section please let us know on our Instagram and remember we have a highlights Channel called PRS Clips where you'll find the best bits of every episode broken down etc etc etc so if you're someone who enjoys history but you don't know where to begin this race when it comes to accumulating Knowledge from podcasts the RS Clips is a fantastic way to begin we've actually curated playlist for you right there and until then make sure you follow us on Spotify every episode of TRS is available on Spotify 48 hours before it's available anywhere else in the world the rnv show another command will be back soon thank you for listening in [Music]

Channel: BeerBiceps

Views: 2,401,506

Keywords: podcast, indian podcast, indian podcasts english, ranveer allahbadia, beerbiceps, the ranveer show, the ranveer show podcast, the ranveer show beerbiceps, trs, india, indian history, ancient india, history, old country, civilisation, mughals, anica mann, archeological survey of india, archaeology, archaeologist, dostcast anica mann, beerbiceps anica mann, human history, abhijit chavda beerbiceps, medha bhaskaran beerbiceps, ancient history

Id: YiwPDyni0a8

Length: 78min 55sec (4735 seconds)

Published: Fri Nov 11 2022