Ana Kasparian vs Tomi Lahren at Politicon 2019

quite the crowd will let folks continue to trickle in and find seats here I'm not the only one excited about this afternoon clearly well that folks come in we're I'm pumped about this because not only is it - are we gonna speak to two of the most influential and powerful women in political media right now but we're gonna have a conversation that perhaps will be a little different than some of the more contentious debates that we've seen in other rooms here at politican I guess folks are gonna be continuing to trickle in as we start but I don't want to waste any time because we've got two ladies who I know everybody wants to hear from I don't know who stand in there first the host and executive producer of one of the most wildly popular and influential web and well just news programs and brands in the country the Young Turks ladies and gentlemen ana kasparian see you whitey thank you and the host final thoughts and a all-around presence on fox nation ladies and gentlemen Tommy Lehren let's do it Tommy said so was let's do it here you know I was I'm thinking about where we are this year because both of all three of us have been a politican before and and we've always done it in Los Angeles and natural is unique and a great place to do it in my opinion because it's a great example of you know how quickly our country can get divided Nashville is a pretty blue area right here within the city but you drive 10 miles and you can find incredibly differing viewpoints and opinions from far more conservative folks in Tennessee and it makes me sort of think and wonder and we'll start with you Tommy do you think that Republicans and Democrats see each other as fellow Americans anymore or do you think that we've become tribal to a point that we we don't even feel like we're the same country even it's though we're so close obviously because of the 2016 election we've seen the battle lines being drawn but I think a lot of Trump supporters feel as though we've been cast out and alienated so that's part of the problem I don't think anybody wants division in this country but I think it for those Trump supporters out there those conservatives out there we've kind of been pushed to the wayside it you're a racist you're a bigot you're intolerant once we've been named called to that extent and we've been had our characters assassinated to such an extent it's hard to repair that once you've called somebody such horrible names when she called people white nationalists and racist just because they support this president naturally we're gonna be a little bit more defensive do you do you think on earth I mean Anna I'll just let you respond to that I mean it's the same question to you yeah so I think that it's important to kind of understand some of the dynamics that influence the agendas of politicians Donald Trump's being one of them so it's an age-old trick for politicians to divide and conquer and if you go back to the campaigning that Trump did and the type of rhetoric he used and the rhetoric he relied on to garner support it was to divide people it was to find the boogie men to find foreigners that are so scary and we all need to you know worry about them the immigrants are the reason why your economic situation isn't so great the people of color are the ones who threaten your lives with the crime I mean that was rhetoric that was specifically meant to divide Americans and it worked unfortunately and the thing is I think it's important for people to really take responsibility for the rhetoric that they use in the various political debates that they engage in so while I don't believe that every single Trump supporter is a racist or a bigot you got to understand that when you have the president referring to people who take part in a white nationalist march as very fine people well he's basically making excuses for individuals who are literally chanting things like the Jews will not replace us they ran over a counter protester Heather hire effectively killing her and so when you have Trump supporters lining up to defend Trump's rhetoric in cases like that well then you have to understand why people would draw these types of conclusions about Trump so it's bothersome to me though that Democrats [Applause] it's bothersome to me that Democrats do not call out antiva that they do not call out the numerous cases of conservatives being attacked and Anna you and I have I have kind of developed a unlikely camaraderie friendship whatever you want to call it over the last couple of months but when we're talking about rhetoric let's be fair you coined me white power Barbie a couple of years ago so my you know never met me have never met me so that's what a lot of conservatives go through is that you've never never met us and never talked to us you look at our viewpoints and all of a sudden you can say I don't agree with her politics you can say I don't agree with what she says I don't like her the fact that she uses I don't like her support for this president but when you blanketly just call somebody a white power Barbie or a white nationalist because you disagree with their politics that's going too far that's rhetoric that's also dangerous so I think I think that's a fair point but I also think that it's important to understand what motivates that type of rhetoric right so look when you are on television and you're saying things about how it's important for us to have as much access to guns as possible so we can defend ourselves against migrants at the border that's effectively messaging to people we should shoot migrants as they're coming to the border to seek asylum that's actually kinetic on which the language look and and I think you have to understand and you have walked back your commentary I give you credit for that because there are people on the right who will say things that incite violence they will slander and defame disenfranchised groups of people and when they do incite violence and you do have shootings like the one that just happened in El Paso Texas that was motivated by an anti-immigrant you know agenda well they won't take responsibility I do give you credit because you have walked back your comments but I don't go around calling every Republican white power Barbie I don't think that every Republican is a bad person but I do think that as public figures as people who have individuals who see us as an inspiration we have an obligation to make sure that our language is careful it's shirt and I've messed up I want to take responsibility for the times that I've messed up but I just think that you miss characterized groups of people in a way that's unacceptable and it directs more violence and more hatred toward them you get more upset about unarmed black people getting shot and killed by cops than you do about the actual victims you know like you support the cops but why not support damn right I will always time to talk I gave you a very long time to talk couple things that you said that I want to clear up when I said I walk back my comments that were made I never said we need guns that we can defend ourselves against migrants coming across the border so we need guns because if you're refusing to protect and defend this nation with our borders we as the American people have to have a means to protect ourselves because the government is not going to do it for us and yes I believe that senator lanza justice that's vigilante justice that is an amendment let's talk about that immigration thing though I mean I don't I will get the Second Amendment trust me but but but I want to talk about that because you you have mentioned that you want to defend the Second Amendment in part because you believe we should be able to defend ourselves against immigrants coming to the country anything threatens to harm us that's that's what the specific anything anything is there a specific threat from immigrant from coming from the southern border what you believe requires Americans to take arms and go to the border with them to defend the know if either of you have I've been to the border several times I've been with her ice agents I've spent a considerable amount of time with both groups when they say we don't know who's coming across our border and we see people from 78 nations in the last couple of months they've come over here and we have a porous border I'm not saying defend yourself because immigrants are bad I'm saying we don't know who's coming across our border that is a threat to our national security and so Democrats want to turn that into its anti-migrant you don't like brown people no I don't like anyone coming to my country I don't know who they are and when you have an unenforced border that is what happened so I so I'll so I'm not gonna sit here and then accuse you of being racist because you want a secure border but but let's talk about whether or not I mean why are we not able to have an immigration policy I would I would argue that part of that comes from the fact that both sides are coming at each other so hard and perhaps not listening too much let's talk specifically about how to fix the immigration problem how would you recognize there's a problem I can't put words in your mouth but I think most of us recognize that immigration isn't quite working in this country the way that it should what what is the solution in your mind Tommy like how are you not not just what are the problems but how do we fix them well the first solution is to build a wall and it's not because it's not because I'm a trumpian it's not because Donald Trump said it and I believe it it's because I've spent time with the men and women a border patrol and when the people that are out there on the frontlines day in and day out say if we had a physical barrier our jobs would be much easier we could dedicate resources other places we need a physical barrier and then for the Democrats to say no no no we it's a manufactured crisis the Border Patrol agents that do this for a living they don't really know what they're talking about walls we don't need a walls that's not going to solve the problem you're completely dismissing people that do this for a living these people are Republicans these people are Democrats as people some don't care about politics 50% Hispanic Latino who are serving in border patrol and they say we need a barrier we need a wall every single one of them I talked to so that's not doesn't work you're saying these people don't know what the hell they're talking about so I think solutions are incredibly important and I think that the left has been mischaracterized you know this whole notion of open borders is not something that's you know a widespread idea that's accepted by people on the left but I will say the part of the problem is that we always focus on what we can do what kind of band-aid we can use to solve a giant gushing wound and so yes there has been a migrant crisis but we never ask what caused this migrant crisis why is there so much crime you know in the northern triangle and we have to take responsibility as Americans for our actions abroad so let me be specific there are multiple actions we can take to root out crime in countries like Honduras El Salvador and Guatemala for instance over 200,000 guns from the United States travels south of the border into the Central American countries which leads to crime these cartels these gang members use these guns which by the way are purchased legally in the United States at gun shows and things like that it helps them carry out the violence that's making these migrants flee so we have to ask ourselves yes we have the Second Amendment yes we should protect it but what can we do to stop the flow of US guns into Central American countries one other thing our drug war our drug war has also fueled violence in these countries so it's not enough to say we're just gonna build a wall and be done with it nobody's gonna work you gotta sell out of managing because the majority of undocumented immigrants came here by flying in let me let me ask so let me ask this and and Tommy now have worked together before she knows I am progressive but I do my best to be fair so I'll admit my bias here is there an argument that I know that as liberals as progressives myself included we often say that you know this wall would be a horrible message to send to our southern neighbors it would send a message that amounted to discrimination based on race I mean that ship has sailed but but if if we try to extract that let me just ask for devil's advocates purpose is there not a world in where both the problems that you're talking about and the problems you're talking about could not be addressed at the same time is it worth it for Democrats to continue to oppose the walls specifically based on that it almost sounds as if though a wall might be a band-aid arguably but a band-aid in place while these other issues are addressed is it worth it for Democrats to continue to fight against the wall specifically or is could it be a part of a larger solution well I think that Democrats and their messaging on the wall has been a failure and the reason why I say that is because they are not doing a good job discussing the complexity of immigration and why there's a flow of migrants instead they're focusing on the discrimination angle they're focusing on the bigotry angle and I get that that's what gets the most attention but in reality like they do need to talk about the complexities at hand and that means talking about gun regulation that means putting themselves out there to discuss solutions for very controversial issues that are related to immigration I just I notice they want to do that I agree with you on that but I also want to address you keep going back to the Second Amendment I want to make sure I understand you correctly because what it sounds like to me and I'm sure to a lot of conservatives that are listening is that we shouldn't fringe upon my Second Amendment right so that they don't go to other countries south of our border and then that makes them come to our country illegally I'm not going to give up my second Amendment rights because we've got illegal immigrants that are trampling over our borders so I'm not the solution that I hear you're saying so I think that it's really important to understand that every constitutional right that we have has its limitations I am supportive of the Second Amendment however there are certain loopholes that are helping to send these guns to Central America so for instance there was a wonderful piece recently written in The New Yorker that talked about a Floridian a gentleman named mr. Crumpler I forget his first name but he was buying a giant amount of guns at these gun shows right so you can go to a gun show there's really no regulation you could purchase as many guns as you want and he was selling it to individuals from Honduras and then he started realizing mm they keep wanting ar-15s they want specific types of guns who are these people what are they doing with the guns and finally he ended up working with the feds because he realized he was helping fuel the violence in these countries where all these migrants are fleeing and so it's a very simple issue just the gun show loophole that doesn't infringe on your right but do you realize that your god you buy your gun from a firearms deal you still have to go through the background check you realize that right thing I do I do but I'm not talking about I'm not talking about buying it from a dealer and even in the case of buying your gun at a dealer where you do a background check there are loopholes to that process as well so one of the ways that Dylan roof was able to purchase a gun was you know the FBI literally has three days to do the background check he went right before a three-day weekend right there was a federal holiday and so the FBI didn't get back to the private seller in time and at that point the private seller without doing a background check or having the FBI doing the background check can just sell the gun right so that's the reason why I'm saying you can still have access to your Second Amendment rights to your guns but there are certain laws that just make sense certain loopholes that we should cut or get rid of in order to ensure that guns don't end up in the wrong hand and we can have we can have those conversations but when you when you have people like candidates from your party saying we're gonna confiscate your guns we're gonna send the police to knock on your door and confiscate your guns that's problematic but before we get into the full Second Amendment thing I do want to go back to immigration because you talked about some of the problems and how we're not addressing the problems we're not providing solutions I think the wall is a solution I don't think that's the only solution we need to change our Asylum laws so that people that are actually seeking asylum we're able to see those judges in a timely matter and they're not right now because anybody is coming across the border which by the way it you're not claiming asylum if you come into this country illegally and then raise your hands and say I'm claiming asylum you claim asylum at a port of entry that is not so what do we have in Florida Patrol agents are literally blocking ports of entry to prevent them from coming because they believe what do we do with legal means to claim a syenite and tonight look I don't know what your family values are but my family values are if my family is in jeopardy if their lives are at risk I will do anything and everything to get them to safety let's let let's let Tommy have a chance to respond I'd like to be able to finish my full thought here okay so you've got a style moi and you people that are actually seeking a sound that have credible fear they get to have their time front of a judge and it turns out as per Border Patrol most of those asylum claims are not are fraudulent or they are not a credible fear they're deemed really invalid and by that time though because our immigration and because we've been invaded to the extent that we have with a hundred thousand people coming over in a month thank goodness our president and DHS has been able to drop that number thank goodness about fifty thousand still too many but they wait two to five years to go to their court date by that time they have already escaped into the shadows of this nation they've already had children they are now essentially living in the shadows as an illegal immigrant that is a problem people that are actually have credible fear they are pushed to the back of the line and when you say that our president is closing port of entry I went to San Diego into that San Ysidro port we know but your anecdote I know but you do not you need to let me do what means you let me ask you a question that allow you to finish it you to finish it but let me ask you this way because I want you to answer the question that will give you an opportunity to do it because my point that I made the same question I asked her which was could a wall not be a solution to the band-aid and then all of the other issues also be addressed at the same time I want to give you a chance to answer about San Ysidro and talk about ports of entry but I want to ask you if it's not possible to be making is is the Trump administration are people on the Republican side losing the ability to win their argument because they won't accept that some of the issues that the left is address fields need to be addressed need to be addressed you need you feel the ports of entry need to be addressed if she would agree to that would then you agree that we need to worry about crime in making crime in Honduras and actually discuss that first of all I want to talk about CNS Tudor because what I'm saying is not anecdotal evidence that port was closed for five hours because migrants during the the invasion rushed it and they had to close it because after it was closed closed I did react five hours Bertrille had to close it I've been there I stood there where these wonderful people were throwing rocks at our Border Patrol agents and then they were all physically ramming a fence to knock it down and then they stormed the port and then it had to be closed for five hours costing both sides a great deal economically so I've been there it's not anecdotal evidence I've been there and I've seen it I've seen the rocks that were hauled out our Border Patrol agents to buy these lovely immigrants looking for a better life I've seen it firsthand also if we're gonna address problems in the country we can we can address that because there are a lot of problems in these countries and I'm a Kalinin spent a lot of time in those countries which is a reason why you're seeing the border crossings going down because he did spend time in those nations that was our outgoing secretary did spend time there you're also seeing Mexico because of this president cooperating and also saying you're right we need to put our troops on the border we need to help you with your problem that was also because President Trump decided to crack down but we're talking about crimes knees countries how do you think these criminal organizations are largely funded beyond drugs they're also funded by smuggling so you're having immigrants who might be coming over here looking for a better life paying a coyote or smuggler thousands of dollars to come into the United States illegally that is funding the criminal organizations that are ruining those countries so if we're saying smugglers are different from cartels and gangs so the cartels and gangs are the individuals that are carrying out acts of violence that's so brutal that these and by the way the mischaracterizations that you're guilty of right now right now is why people call you racist I'm just telling because right is there yeah because you're you're dehumanizing no no humanizing individuals who are fleeing crime in their countries patrol agents I know that are you Mike let me finish let me I've been very very calm considering this issue would it be would it be accurate to say that when Anna meets someone or speaks to someone who is a trump supporter and that Trump supporter happens to espouse or display racist views that that trump supporter that she's speaking to in that moment is not necessarily themselves a good representative of all Republicans would that be accurate sure if someone okay so is it possible that your experience in San Ysidro at that one port of entry on that one day Vegas might not be an example of how all ports of entry are it had to be closed because she understand what you're talking about it did what what you're saying is not inaccurate it's true it did but is it is it fair to say that that is an example of what is happening at all ports of entry all of the time or did it happen on the day that you were there it happened during the day that would be anecdotal because that's an example of exactly something that happened while you were there right but when she's referring to a specific incident have you been to the border have you spent any time with our Border Patrol agent listen listen I've lived in Los Angeles my entire life I just want to make a quick note about something for all the fear-mongering that happens about immigrants and they're so dangerous and they're criminals and we need to look out you're from South Dakota which has a relatively small immigrant population and you made a decision to move to Los Angeles where 35% of the population consists of immigrants do you feel unsafe do you it's I feel like you say like this I feel unsafe with because where I grew up with these individuals and these individuals have actually improved my life they have given me a worldview that I wish you I wish you had because there wonder there they enriched this country in ways that I want to I want a load them off as donors criminals cons I'm not blowing up all and what I'm saying is there's a difference between an immigrant and an illegal immigrant number one and what does it differ one is number one my point cuz I just want to make one only question that I'm going and I need to make one more point and you can finally go on another filibuster listen what are the other issues one of the other issues is look the wall we have diverted money from the military we've diverted money from disaster relief funds in order to build the wall port okay fine erode the wall build the wall but here's the thing it's not really gonna protect our border I mean if you look at nonpartisan Studies on it it indicates that it's gonna do nothing it's a giant waste of taxpayer money when we're we're dealing with no health care we're dealing with situations where people are becoming homeless because they can't afford housing so we're gonna divert all of our resources to that okay fine but then what do we do about the vast majority of migrants who come in by flying in right what do we do about that are you scared of them to let you answer all about this and then I want to and they don't want to not come back to immigration and switch a little bit but you finish and respond illegal immigration is a threat and all the things that your wonderful Democratic Party wants to provide to people free of charge is not gonna be possible if you have an open border lot in taxes a lot they pay thirteen billion dollars there and socially yogurty taxes they don't ever get advantage of sales tax a ton of money in state taxes they even pay income tax and just and they never get to take advantage of the social safety net that other Americans get to take advantage of we just have stability that they're just coming in here and there was my aunt say lastly I thought this was my answer but it always turns into Anna's answer doesn't it my state of California when you say they don't get to take advantage of excuse me 100 million dollars a year we're not out allocating to illegal immigrant healthcare when you're right we do at fifty nine wants to in the state of California to California we have 50,000 homeless people in LA County and we're diverting a hundred million dollars to cover illegal immigrant but when we're talking about the border and when when Washington bureaucrats and think sit there and say oh well it's not going to help it and then the people that work on the border say no I work on the border if we had a physical barrier here it would allow us it was a wasted resource but but that's the point that I was making she just said fine build the wall it's a waste of money it but build the wall if you really think that that's the case build the wall so let's just for a second pretend we're building the wall let's build it we've got you all we've got you all you got your wall so you've got your wall and it's cost billions of dollars and and now what's that gonna do the economy so let's let's switch a little bit I mean it's hard to it's hard to transition up here on this stage because y'all could go at it for a while remember that thing I said about it being nice and sweet and everybody get along that was get along beautifully backstage truly let's talk about the economy let me ask you first the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in quite a while the the general consensus well I think can't say the general consensus but polling numbers amongst Americans indicate that more believe that they're doing better now than they have in recent decades does this not does this not help president Trump's argument that he has done a good job with the economy I mean I would imagine that there will be many who would say well he's reaping the benefits of President Obama's economy but but I doubt you'd say that and and I think regardless of what you believe who's to credit for it President Trump will probably get the credit for that so is President Trump not responsible or at least the Republicans in Congress in the house not responsible for an improvement in the stock market and improvement in the unemployment rate so I'm gonna rewind a little bit and talk about Obama and how he improved the economy right so there might be some people on the Left who don't like what I say here but it's the truth Obama did improve the economy for those at the top and that improvement has continued for those at the top and let me be specific I think that the Trump administration took a problem and unfortunately made it worse so the tax cuts for the wealthy that's two trillion dollars in tax cuts for the very top over the next 10 years and that is gonna defund things that this country needs so desperately including improvements to our infrastructure including you know social safety net programs that us Americans we've paid into you know people like to say that it's nothing more than a handout I don't know I look at my taxes I see how much of it goes toward those programs that I should be able to take advantage of at some point in the future but nonetheless look if you look at statistics that actually matter so yes the unemployment rate is low what is the quality of those jobs what do they pay do they pay a living wage are they full-time jobs oftentimes they're either temporary construction jobs or they don't pay good living wages and so if you look at consumer debt consumer debt today is higher than it was at the height of the last economic collapse we're all going into more and more debt just to be able to provide for our families and to go to school so there are other measures of the economy that I think unfortunately are being ignored they were ignored in the Obama administration they're certainly being ignored now and we need to find ways to improve the economy for the working class for the middle class for individuals who actually put their sweat in their blood into making these companies successful so I'll agree with you in part on Obama's economy not being as great as the Democrats liked to romanticize about it but at the end of the day the American people are doing well under this president the unemployment rate is down workforce participation is up median household incomes is also up it's gone up about 5,000 dollars and that is crumbs to Nancy Pelosi but it's not to average Americans under the Bush years it was up $400 under the Obama years it was up $1,000 so being that it's up 5,000 under President trumpet is an improvement for families and that's raising wages so when the Democrats and you say no people are actually struggling there actually are not they incomes actually are going up is it as much as people want to see nobody's ever sing their income go up as much as they would like to have it see but under this president it is going up so that and I know you want to interrupt me but I'm gonna get to finish cuz you got to go on like if I don't want is right there so yes the unemployment rate is down workforce participation is up we've also have a president of is addressing a trade issue right now that both sides are worried about but he's actually stepping up to address it which many have put off because it's not politically usually favorable to address a trade war to engage in a trade war to do what's necessary to get nations like China to play fair or at least meet us in the middle have somewhat of a level playing field this president is doing this he's addressing these head-on and for the Democrats when I see him on the stage to say everyone's doing horribly into this economy it's just not true as clay mentioned the American people are doing well under this economy which is pretty great for a president they say that they would collapse us into another recession that has not been the case I know much of the Democrats dismay who are cheering for a recession because they'd love to beat Donald Trump but the economy is doing well under this president what what exactly is it please answer that or respond to that I apologize so you know one of the things that I'm concerned about and this is genuine concern one measure that individuals look at in order to gauge our economic success is the stock market and one of the things that people don't realize is that these stock prices are a house of cards because after Trump gave these massive tax cuts to the wealthy to these corporations I mean the corporate tax rate used to be 35% he lowered it to 21% but when you consider the effective corporate tax rate it's much lower that's why companies like Amazon the most profitable corporation in America got away with paying zero in taxes last year so what do they do with the money that they say from those tax cuts do they create jobs well you would think yeah right that's what we keep hearing Republicans say but in reality they bought shares of their own stocks corporate stock buybacks and so that that those stock prices are not based on consumers stimulating the economy they're based on corporate CEOs and executives buying shares of their own stock and artificially inflating the value it's based on a house of cards and we should be worried about that ball part right now are you able to rebut the argument that the tax cuts that were passed by President Trump and this in the Republican Senate in house were effective in improving the lives of the middle class it was a tax cut for 80% of Americans so yes and I know that that's something the Democrats don't like to talk but tax cuts help us tax cuts put people back let's be we've done really well without booing so far so let's not start crap ooh a tax cut it's and razors but you're welcome to pay more but well let me ask you about that check you can send it yourself you can donate your entire income to listen if you start heckling them I'm all that americo your backs that all heckle them the tax cuts ooh I guess I guess I'm again I'm showing my stripes here but I hear a lot of people talk about make America great again and there's a there's an argument that we don't build and as much as we did our roads are not as good as they used to be etc but if you look back at periods in our country's history when we were investing in infrastructure and we were investing in what some might call social handouts but others might call social safety nets which we all appreciate like Social Security Medicare we had tax rates that were far far higher is there a danger that the that the continual expectation that taxes must continue to get lower and lower and lower will put us in a position as a country where we aren't able to pay for even the most basic things like fixing potholes on interstates well this president is also and has been very vocal about fixing our infrastructure I think that that's a bipartisan effort he has well he's been vocal about it but I don't know when we're talking about I mean us MCA that's an easy thing that should be bipartisan then that's being stalled because of the Democrats so if we want to go back and forth Trump's not doing this out doing that it's not getting a lot of help he has brought up infrastructure that's been a discussion that was had and then we went into the whole immigration and the shutdown and that all but delayed and now we are in another witch-hunt so that's everything's being delicious listen and I don't want anybody to respond to what I'm about to say because I'm not saying this for an applause or anything but I will I will make the point that notice that there's a lot of Democrats fault Democrats fault Democrats fault Democrats fault that comes from this side and I don't hear as much blame coming from this side of the room and so I wonder if it's possible to talk about what the Republican Party you guys said I want you to respond trust me it's not I'm not coming but I'm just asking constructively is there a way to make the arguments for what's good in the president's policy without blaming it always on what are Democrats doing so it would be nice if we could do we could go through a day without them blaming Trump for every I'm not gonna disagree with that I'm not gonna disagree with that so I mean we're talking about I think that you know the Democrats get unfair scrutiny I'm sorry I'm gonna have to call on that because our president can't go I'm talking about this stage right here I'm not saying everything is the Democrats fault I'm saying there are areas of bipartisanship that we could work together on I think instructure is one of them I think us MCA is another one there are areas of bipartisanship when you're talking about the stock market I don't fully disagree with you on that I understand that that's a house of cards I also understand that in Medicare and Social Security is a house of cards there are a lot of things that need to be addressed and it's not going to be one really smart Republican or one really smart Democrat that's gonna do it it's gonna be consensus and I think that that's maybe where we can take our tone down and decide we have a Congress that's not acting the interests the American people on both sides why are we not able to to work on these things that we all say we agree on like infrastructure what do you think is that and I'll come to you for the same for an answer on that too but what do you think is the reason that that that's not possible it's gonna be 12 I mean that is that is tough to answer and we live in a very polarized climate and I think it's driven by the type of rhetoric that we're hearing in the executive branch to be quite honest but I will say one thing you know Trump had an opportunity to get things done without having to worry about bipartisanship in the first two years you're right I did see and that's on our pub why did you build the wall then that's what we asked the Rhinos every single day and I pressed them on every single day trust me trust me I'm with you on that one if we can agree on something is that I'm not happy with a lot of the establishment maybe it's not just Democrats fault right now still no it's absolutely not there's a lot of Republicans who are gonna have hell to pay I've never I've never been when who's just been a cheerleader guy is gonna open up we agreed on something up here on this stage I've never been a cheerleader for the establishment Republicans what is an establishment Republican what does that mean we cuz because the Democrats say it too establishment Democrats especially when we're in this primary establishment Republicans it just sounds to me as if I'm trying to be a nonpartisan it just sounds to me like Republicans don't like anyone who's not far enough right for them and Democrats don't like anyone who's found not far enough left for them so what is establishment mean can i I want to change the framing of that question a little bit because I don't think it's about oh we don't support someone who's not left enough or right enough I think that it's all about rejecting corporatism right so and corruption really because we want lawmakers who actually are good faith actors and are driven by their ideology driven by their principles and their values on both the left and the right our entire system's been hijacked by corporate interests by legalized bribery and so none of these lawmakers really represent us unless they reject that money and honestly it's very rare to find anyone who's willing to reject it that's why someone like Bernie Sanders was able to start a movement because he said no no corporate PAC money no big donors I'm only gonna accept small dollar donations and he's been so principled you go back 20 years and he's been preaching the same thing he believes in what he says and that's why he's so appealing do you think that's the same definition on absolutely agree I absolutely agree with that I think that it's the populist movement on both sides although it's different that's why you see the rise of Bernie Sanders that's why you saw the rise of Donald Trump and I do think that that's more in the people's interest we have different ways of going about it but it is that core populist movement and that's when we both say we we're not happy with the establishment that's because they do put their own interests their own after office interests their own current office interest the dollar signs ahead of the American people and that's a frustration on both sides maybe we can agree on that well who would be establishment characters in your mind if you are good friend peered Alecto Oh Mitt Romney okay of course I'm not a I'm not a fan many times of Lindsey Graham I've been very vocal in my opposition to Lindsey Graham I'm not fully supportive Mitch McConnell I mean there are several and there are leaders in the Republican Party that I don't feel like support this president but more than that I don't feel like necessarily support the hard-working conservatives in this country that elected them and I'm sure she has the same on on her side of the aisle oh definitely I mean one of the things that Hillary Clinton got a lot of criticism for on the left was her ties to corporate interests and I think that you know for establishment politicians who are paying attention and actually care about these types of discussions they need to understand that people are paying attention people are looking into what influences their campaigns and why they push for the types of policies they push for and if there's a lot of corporate influence it's very unlikely that these politicians are gonna look out for the best interest for the average American or of the average American what do you think the biggest threat for young people in this country is right now socialism yeah I do do you feel like socialism and define that for me though that's socialism taking hold yes I define what you mean by socialism taking I mean what what define socialism because I think we get here at thrown around a lot but there are you know III think maybe I'm wrong I think they're differing differing opinions on exactly what people are talking about socialism in Venezuela is different than socialism in Bolivia is different than what some people might call socialism in Norway and Sweden they all have aspects of it Canada even does too but what is the socialism that you're most afraid of well like when you hear Bernie Sanders but you know many of you are a fan of it when you hear him on stage saying the government is gonna give you a job the government's gonna give you free health care the government's gonna give you free college you work for the government you live by the government you don't think that's a little hyperbole though I mean I'm just gonna give you a job you know is it not about making things available to people is it not about making college available and accessible to people versus handing everyone a opportunity to hand everyone college tuition you live in to America you've been handed an opportunity that most people don't have first and foremost I won't disagree with that but but I was handed a I was and I'm not really and I'm trying to disappear but I'm not but um but I was handed I was handed in elementary school education for free and a heist and a middle school and a high school education for free why am I not entitled to college education for free what makes that socialism but high school free high school education is not socialism we'll need that decision in this country that that was we were going up until high school and if you want to talk about Republic we not make the decision that we're going through college who's gonna pay for it public colleges used to be free in America they were they were properly funded and they were free I'm talking about public colleges they used to be free in America all the things that Bernie Sanders is campaigning on are things that Americans used to have but they were taken away from us just to give the top 1% the giant tax cuts that they're enjoying today so it's not like what he's proposing is radical what he's proposing are policies that used to make America great policies that gave Americans opportunities to lift themselves up by the bootstraps and actually create the type of lives that they deserve if they work hard enough for it the type of lives that my family was able to accomplish you know through all the hard work the sweat the tears I mean I could never do what my parents did today because they had certain opportunities that we just don't have anymore free education I'm talking about college education is like a fantasy now and it's not a radical idea considering the fact that we used to have it do I mean I want to give you an opportunity to expand on it because I asked you what the fair was just a socialism and then I jumped in so is it that you feel do you fear a dictatorship like these like we see in Venezuela what about socialism is it that you feel is the most imminent threat big government to me is the biggest threat I've said it before and I'll say it again you can either be free or you can be dependent on the government you when that people talk about being social socialist Democrats or democratic socialists that's a really nice way to package it but you can that the two terms are in oxymoron if you're dependent on the permit for everything you are not truly free you cannot live in a democracy where you were and then dependent upon the government for all of your worldly desires needs now the federal job program that Bernie was pushing on the stage your healthcare your college when you're dependent on the government for all those things and you're gonna just tax the wealthy I'm telling you this the thing about the wealthy is they can move and they're not gonna stay there under plan ignore them but they don't but they will they will they don't they do the tax shelters but they never move but what do you think is gonna happen which is the oil companies where are they gonna go well that right now what we're seeing what we're seeing happening in California is a microcosm of what's gonna happen in the rest of this country if we allow big government to take over you're seeing companies leave California for that reason you're seeing people leave California for that reason overtaxed over-regulated government is too big that's why they're taking Toyota to Texas that's why they're they're fleeing so I want to give you an example of big government I want to get your thoughts on it because this is this is something the government does and when I say government it means all of us as US taxpayers right so we fund the research and development for all these massive corporations our tax dollars our tax dollars fund the research and development of pharmaceutical drugs then those companies of course turn around and they prat price gouge us right we help fund the research and development for massive corporations like Google right so big government I know it sounds real scary but we're the government we as US taxpayers rare the ones who create these successful corporations and all I'm saying is that we deserve something in return and unfortunately we've gotten the complete opposite and we I'm just tired of these talking points because look I think big government is a problem when they're telling me what I can do with my body I think and government is a problem when they tell us who we can and can't marry or what type of sex were allowed to have which was actually a thing back in the day that's big government but when it comes to social services that we've paid into we deserve to get something back but how is that working out how those things we've paid into working out well they're slowly underfunded just so we can give the wealthy back something is if you're if you're so to everything and I don't know if it's yours but it certainly is Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders their solution to everything is tax wealthy tax the wealthy if those wealthy folks leave or they do put their money elsewhere and whatever creative way you can fantasize about in your mind and we don't have that money then who pays for all these social programs who is going to get pinched well I can give the answer cuz we live in California and we know it's the middle class that gets pinched in California you've got the very very wealthy that can afford it and you've got the homeless and then you've got the middle who were fleeing to the Inland Empire they're fleeing to Phoenix they're fleeing the Dallas Texas they're fleeing because they can't afford it they can't right there's a lot going on there's a lot going on in California and I don't know if this one debate it gives us enough time to cover it but there is severe corruption in California there's an issue with foreign investment in real estate in California which artificially inflates the property values and leads to homelessness in California you have real estate developers who are running amok and that's part of the corruption I mean we we unfortunately don't have time to get into all of that but the idea that wealthy people are gonna flee that these corporations are gonna flee I mean we still subsidize oil companies to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars every year where are they gonna go the oil is here you know like that's an example one other example is the top marginal tax rate in the United States used to be ninety one percent they didn't leave okay so if you want to leave how about it but I think that if you're living in this country and you've taken advantage of the opportunities that this country has given you you're not allowed to shut the door behind you and I'm not talking about equality of outcome I'm talking about equality of opportunity we should have a system that's fair that gives people their opportunity to shine and work themselves up the economic ladder and that's all when we agree on that statement we don't agree how to get there I believe innovation is fostered through competition through the free-market play taxpayer money through research and development but you realize that the government's also funding research and development for all of your alternative fuel companies for all the research I mean it's not just they're not just fueling corporate I mean to say that our government or tax their payer dollars are funding corporations and then to not all the other areas that they're funding is government spending a problem an alternative energy historically speaking the government would let that a company take it over and profit from it correct it would not in Bernie Sanders America not in Elizabeth Worlds America innovation is fostered through the free marketplace and competition it is not fostered through handouts through socialism through government regulation and that's why we're seeing the economy doing well now because President Trump has gotten rid of a lot of the Obama era regulations that were crushing small business that is still the backbone of our nation and when small businesses can't function then they can't hire and then they can't have high paying jobs when they're given all these government age of 15 dollar an hour minimum wage then they can't hire as many employees so yes those employees that they have might be making what they consider a living wage but then the other person just doesn't have a job so I knew then they rely on the social program not a way to live I actually I agree with you in that small businesses would have a difficult time paying $15 an hour to their employees which is why I think it makes all the sense in the world to stop subsidizing corporations that are already very successful and subsidize small businesses so they can pay a living wage and also grow themselves so it was it was interesting to me when you when you rebutted what I said a second ago you said well it wouldn't Bernie Sanders America and it wouldn't Elizabeth Warren's American my initial reaction was to say well that actually makes the argument for Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren because well to certain people what I said and what you said would happen in their worlds that's what folks that's what a certain part of this audience wants the people who support Bernie Sanders the people who support Elizabeth Warren they think that's great to people who agree with you more they think that's horrible so how do we I mean it's it seems like on both sides we're handing out facts on this side in fact on this side and talking points on this side and on this side that that are really continuing to speak to our audience and we're not doing too much to change anybody's mind if you came here supportive of Anna you probably are going to leave supportive Havana and if you came here supportive of Tommy you're gonna leave supportive of Tommy what do you and listen and that's great whoever you came here for but what what do you find is most effective for you when you need to change somebody's mind when I go into conversations like this I don't have any delusions of changing and his mind or yours or anybody else's I think it's about having a conversation in this country about our values and they are different and it's okay to have conversations about differing values because that's why we have the two parties that we have in the various political ideologies that we have we have conservatism we have liberalism we have progressivism we have Republicans Democrats we have everybody in the middle libertarians all of that to have a discussion sometimes there's not a solution that both sides can agree to that's why we have Congress that can hopefully get somewhere in that middle right now that's not happening doesn't that make people mad it seems like to me people get more mad if you find a solution somewhere in the middle than if you choose something I mean I listen I think a lot of people have made the argument that one of the reasons President Trump has doubled down on his base and only his base is because he made a calculation with Steve Bannon that it doesn't matter whether I compromise or whether I moderate I'm never gonna win the people on the left so what's the point in moderating or compromising but he did when people on the left he won states that he wouldn't otherwise he'll he won states that he otherwise wouldn't have had we can disagree about the fact that the numbers are certainly not in his favor right now polling wise I'm just saying come see me in 2020 clay I'm interlocked with being right here with you I plan on it do I mean but but you understand what I'm saying we're we're still playing to our to our ends and I think what you said is wonderful we do have differing opinions but if we keep shouting in the end zones and nobody's so what about you mean how do you because I have to assume that yes we say what we want to say because we are proud of what we believe but we do have to at least sway some people to not only see it our way but to understand that maybe your way is right or your way is right what works for you well you know for me I think it's important to focus on the one thing that really does unite all Americans regardless of their ideology and for me that's the economic situation you know whether you're on the left or the right the decisions that our lawmakers make in regard to how our taxed what our wages are that affects all of us and I think that there is a lot of frustration I mean I feel it myself when it comes to the unfair system that we have in place right now the system is really rigged against the worker right there is much more focus on you know the tax cuts and the protectionism for those at the very top and so for me look this isn't this isn't about like oh I want to demonize those on the right this is about hey how do we find solutions so Americans can prosper and this whole thing about education I just want everyone to understand that it's not about giving people handouts it's about making this country stronger if you want innovation the best way to do it is give people access to education and when I use the word access I'm not talking about the way corporate Democrats use access in regard to health care I mean genuinely giving people free public college so if they have some intellectual curiosity if they have a passion they can actually move forward and pursue that and unfortunately all those opportunities have been shut down I want to have a discussion about how we can open those opportunities up again and create a stronger country do you do you ever get scared when you share your opinion that do you ever get physically afraid are you worried I mean are you worried tell me about them as your share as you're talking about politics it's so polarizing people say some nasty things is that where are you you know to be honest I'm more concerned about my family than I am about myself the threats are very specific the daxing is is terrifying and you know if something happens to me that would be terrible but if something happened to members of my family it would be far worse and so you know my nieces and my nephews are my life and I want to share them with my fans and I want to share pictures and celebrate their birthdays publicly and I can't do that out of fear that someone's actually gonna carry out an act of violence and hurt them so yeah the fear is real and I think that this political climate has made me extremely paranoid and I wish I weren't that way do you get scary no no you got your gun girl so I'm worried about you there but do you do you not get worried you're very polarizing of course and you speak very strongly about your opinions do you get worried at all well I've had things actually happened to me so it's not a worry it's actually a reality for me but yes at the end of the day it is but I would feel horribly if I sat on a stage next to someone like you and you who I watched on TV I won't say how old I was but just say that you know I'm a victim yes sometimes I have been a victim but I get to do in my opinion the greatest job I could have ever hoped to have so yes I get flack I get backlash my family I've been Doc's my family's been Doc's I've had death threats I've had things thrown at me but I still sit here and feel incredibly blessed that I get to do this because there are so many people who don't get to do what we get to do and live their dreams like we get to live them so I will take all of those bumps and bruises I will take the heckling I will take the name-calling because quite frankly I'm very blessed that I just get to do this in general and I think and I think I think boasts I'm not gonna speak for both of you I'll let you do it yourself but I think both of you and most of the people who you work with and that you work with recognize that the folks who are doing what you're doing are doing it because you have a passion for this country and you have a passion for this country and you have wildly divergent views but both still want for America the best for America to be the best that she can be and and I imagine that those of you who are here today are here today because you also want the best for the country and for it to be the best that it can be and despite the fact that some of you may cheer more loudly for Ana and some of you more cheer more loudly for Tommy I do believe that I know that both of these ladies know and I hope everyone out here knows that they are friends backstage you know and and that we all should be as well so I mean if you want to speak to that both of you we're out of time now but I'll let you both have the last word just one line and it's a line from Bernie Sanders campaign I'm willing to fight for someone I don't know [Music] no I think just to speak to conversations that we can have this is I've done this several times now I had a great conversation a couple years ago for those of you were there with Chelsea Handler disagree on a lot of things had a great conversation you and I have had offstage conversations that were great we get heated we yell at each other but at the end of the day I don't walk offstage hating you I don't walk offstage with bad feelings bad blood I don't wish any ill upon you and I wish we could get to a place in this country where we could genuinely feel that way and have our political disagreements sometimes even yell get very heated but still can walk offstage and say I still would tell anybody that asked me if they said oh that Anna girl she's a I would say no we actually we can have a good conversation backstage and I'm not gonna diminish her or name call her we disagree passionately but we can be civil and I think we should all be able to do that that would be nice if we could get to that place wouldn't it I on the other hand I'm a very huge pitch ana kasparian Tommy Lehren ladies and gentlemen [Applause]

Channel: The Young Turks

Views: 1,023,575

Keywords: 191028__SE01anaTomiPoliticon, TYT, Ana Kasparian, ana kasparian tomi lahren, ana kasparian tomi lahren politicon, ana kasparian tomi lahren debate, ana kasparian vs tomi lahren, politicon 2019, politicon 2019 ana kasparian, politicon kyle kulinski, politicon debate, politicon 2019 live, politicon tomi lahren, tomi lahren, tomi lahren politicon 2019, tomi lahren politicon 2018, politicon, politicon tyt, tyt at politicon, tomi lahren politicon

Id: geNzraekJ-s

Length: 57min 45sec (3465 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 28 2019