Ambulance fees: The real cost on patients (CBC Marketplace)

crime violence is fast Anil says watch I'm also punch you she breathing tell me exactly what happened we're inside an ambulance dispatch center is she changing color urgent calls come in to places like this across the country okay is he bleeding or vomiting blood an ambulance can be the difference between life or death we're on our way so why are so many Canadians afraid to call for help 10-4 all right they're on their way this week on marketplace worried about the bills when you're worrying about your child died those two things and dot he at the same picture Canadians you can't afford to call nine-one-one in their lines I think it's robbery paramedics having to convince people to take an ambulance at critical times they were actually worried absolutely no way they wouldn't go with us if almost half the people in your province are saying they might delay calling an ambulance doesn't that tell you there's something wrong with the system we asked why there's no free ride we're on our way to meet someone who's had to make a desperate call for an ambulance more than once hey Sarah hi America Sarah abuse guns older daughter Leandre was born with a life-threatening illness she has seizures trouble breathing Supergirl their medical needs were so extreme she needed the ambulance a lot I think the first time we called she had a seizure that just wouldn't stop to Sara's surprise after that first ambulance trip she gets a bill if you are having a true emergency like you need medical help or you will die I did not realize that you got a bill for that how much stress did getting an ambulance Vil add to your already stressful situation oh my gosh dude it was you're not working you're caring for your child that's dying on and off um and she's still sick in the hospital receiving treatment and you get a bill I think we had three bills in one month for three hundred and twenty-five dollars most of Leandra's trips by ambulance are to two hospitals in Regina each trip cost Sarah's family another three hundred and twenty-five dollars how many times do you think you called an ambulance probably close to 20 times every single time you got a bill yeah and some of them weren't because we called 911 it was for transferring her to another hospital for treatment and they would not even though she was admitted to the hospital because she was not well enough to go home they would not pay the bill for the ambulance ride there or Bach yep they even charge a fee to transfer Leandre between hospitals and they ding her family for mileage to 2 dollars and 30 cents a kilometer 1516 dollars and 40 cents $1,500 for a one-way ambulance trip yeah that's what you were billed yeah and you got another bill on top of it well then you have to pay for her to come back how much was that same amount another 1,500 yeah what did you think after all of that to get a bill for $3,000 for one round-trip I felt terrified that I would have these bills that we just could not afford anymore had up all the bills surrogates for Leandra's ambulance trips almost $7,000 I had medical insurance I maxed out at what I could purchase through my company that I worked for because she took so many trips um the coverage covered one and a half ambulance rides per year when my child's in the ICU 17 times in one year one and a half trips does not cover and you're still paying for that insurance did you ever try to get your bill reduced I asked if they could do something for me and they offered me payment plans so that was it just payment plans payment plans we accept Visa and MasterCard we want to find out why Sarah's ambulance bills are so high so we're in Regina to meet the executive director of Saskatchewan's acute and emergency services branch Debra Jordan Saskatchewan the larger centers like Regina and Saskatoon charge three hundred and twenty-five dollars per ambulance ride how did you come up with that figure so Erika you're probably aware that ambulance service as our many aspects of health care in Canada are not covered under the Canada Health Act and they're uninsured turns out provinces don't have to cover the cost of an ambulance ride we do some digging and discover provinces charging ambulance fees across the country at all kinds of rates from forty five dollars in Ontario to as much as five hundred and thirty in parts of Manitoba should there be such variation across the country no it shouldn't be there shouldn't be a cost period Chris hood is president of the paramedic Association of Canada the ability to call an ambulance when you require an ambulance shouldn't really be based on the ability to pay or not a former health minister in this province New Brunswick has said that if there was no charge people would take ambulances like taxis what do you think of that argument if you put policies and procedures in place so that people that don't medically need an ambulance don't get an ambulance the paramedics may show up assess the patient look at the patient they're professionals they're healthcare professionals they should determine when somebody needs to be there a lot of you seem to agree we commissioned a national survey ask should you have to pay for a medically necessary ambulance ride seventy-five percent say no and in Sarah's home province where fees are some of the most expensive in Saskatchewan almost 80% that there should not be a fee what is fully insured our physician and hospital services and we do through our current program and funding of regional health authorities cover about 71% of the the cost of ground ambulance but that still leaves a lot of the cost downloaded on to people I like this part is this gas mileage is is not totally flat people like Dave car you should touch days met his wife Katherine later in life they settle here in the small rural town of I tuna Dave's a writer and a romantic in the moment you were there the world changed just a little bit in that moment or two a year and a half ago Katherine's diagnosed with advanced cancer for the next two months they transfer her from hospital to hospital for treatment and palliative care took me 50 years to find that girl when I only had her 15 and that took the most valuable thing I ever found in his life away from me shortly after her death Dave gets something in the mail Katherine's bill for those ambulance transfers more than $5,000 I think it's robbery he wasn't a choice she couldn't be moved any other way hey basically 245 dressed on a fixed pension can barely afford to make monthly $30 payments very trapped very despondent and I really started to feel the loneliness the Health Region agrees to lower his bill but it's still more than $4,000 soon he's getting late payment notices in the mail and he's being charged interest so his payments aren't making a dent I'm sorry it's been a hard road first year was almost impossible I was bloody angry and I took it out on whoever I could get a holder to take it out on looking for some help so does the province offer any relief for people like Dave we have programs in place like senior citizens ambulance assistance program family health benefits supplementary health that cover fully or mitigate the cost individuals can Dave get some of that help I want this bill settled I want it gone he's driving to the local hospital that sent his wife the Bell I'm hoping we get to talk to somebody we're tagging along with a hidden camera as Dave goes inside what will happen when Dave demands a financial break so there's something wrong - the only thing yeah and people would die in their vehicles when ambulance fees force risky choices you would see her turn blue in the car as you're driving her yeah how much do ambulances cost where you live find out at cbc.ca slash marketplace we're investigating ambulance fees joining Dave car as he fights back after his wife passes away Dave's hit with a $5,000 ambulance bill on a basic pension you don't really know Dave's a senior the bills are stressful bills are never a nice thing Oh in Saskatchewan there's a program to help seniors who can't pay Dave 70 so he should qualify for some relief in the rule book where it says flat rate 275 dollars per trip wherever she head would have the goal but get this because Dave's wife was only 62 when she died he doesn't qualify for the seniors discount so our producer asks he's a senior if he has to pay the bill that should be accounted goes under the pieces I can't use anything with still yeah I could help with the interest so can you pull up his file now and get rid of the interest yeah I can cancel so some small consolation no more interest how do you feel that it sounds like he's personable but what about the rest of that $3,500 bill Deborah Jordan with Saskatchewan Ministry of Health he needs some help now isn't there something your government could do to help him at this point under existing coverage programs which he doesn't qualify so unfortunately not so no help for Dave it'll take him years to pay off that bill and that promise to at least drop the interest Dave's latest statement has a note attached saying the finance department is not authorized to write-off interest with no financial relief Dave makes a disturbing decision if he needs an ambulance down the road he won't call one because I can't afford I can't pay it simple Sarab uses gun has also faced that terrible dilemma she and her husband have almost $7,000 in ambulance bills her daughter's life-threatening disability means Leandre often can't breathe and needs emergency ambulance trips to hospital worrying about the bills when you're worrying about your child dying those two things should not be in the same picture in desperation they sometimes rush their daughter to hospital themselves one would drive and one would be in the taxi with her monitoring her vitals turning up the oxygen I'm just trying to get her there keep her calm try to keep yourself calm your Adrenaline's going you're shaking um just cuz you're terrified you would see you're turning blue in the car as you're driving her yeah and the reason you tried driving her was to avoid an ambulance bill basically yeah it sounds so pathetic as a parent you feel like you're not doing what you're supposed to do you know you're taught as a child if there's an emergency you call 9-1-1 you call 9-1-1 nobody tells you there's a bill attached with that phone call sounds like desperate measures but it may happen more often than you think in our national survey 42 percent of you say a fee might delay you from calling an ambulance in a heart attack the hurts a muscle the longer you delay the more muscle can be destroyed or injured Chris hood with the paramedic Association of Canada did you ever answer a call where the talk about how much is this gonna cost came up oh we've convinced I've convinced people to come by ambulance and say don't worry about the cost no we're actually worried I just want to go with it wouldn't go with us and what was that like for you as a paramedic to see people risking their lives it's it's terrible people would die in their vehicles they would they would go into cardiac arrest in their vehicles because they decided not to take an ambulance because they couldn't afford the fees in Saskatchewan 48 percent say they might delay calling an ambulance because of the fee that's almost half the population of this province might delay calling a critical care service I think we would underscore to residents that there should never be any question about making that call if they need a call for service because in regulation a service provider and I think that's where we as a health system eat a bit do a little better job in terms of taking a look at our coverage programs we show some of our interview with Sarah blue in the car as you're driving yeah it was hard they really forced you into situations for you to test it it's not doing what party to you what do you think when you see that it's heart wrenching people should be making that call to 9-1-1 so if she did she would be hit with another bill for three hundred and twenty five dollars on top of the thousands she was already being charged how does that sit with you it doesn't sit well and I don't think it would sit well with anyone which is why we you want to ensure that when people need the service the billing is not the consideration when someone needs care but clearly for some it is and now that's prompting one province to act you don't pay for a fire department to come and put your fire out why is paramedic service or ambulance service any different where patients desperate for help get a free ride if one province can like an another should you have to pay for an ambulance tell us on Facebook and Twitter do you know if there's a defibrillator and there's clothes we're investigating the real cost of ambulance fees across the country do not new local malefic endanger okay at this 9-1-1 Dispatch Center in Moncton yeah I might have to push up trash a little bit people call in from across New Brunswick if you gets worse in any way before they get their clothes back at 911 or wait don't incredibly this is the only province where you no longer pay for an ambulance you Shoal government says it's eliminating the 130 dollar ambulance fee the fees will be waived for those without private insurance so that no one will have to pay out of pocket it's all about making sure that the ability to pay isn't uh isn't a barrier to accessing health care Chris hood is with the paramedic Association of Canada you don't pay for a police officer to come to your house when you've got somebody breaking into it you don't pay for a fire department to come and put your fire out why is paramedic service or ambulance service any different it's the same thing and yet most Canadians are still paying for an ambulance ride but at what cost in our national survey one in five say the fee deterred them from calling 9-1-1 Sarab uses gun is one of them it's been over a year since her older daughter Leandre passed away after many trips by ambulance and some harrowing trips on their own do you know what an ambulance costs in New Brunswick no people don't pay tell me why that's upsetting cuz our profits created over and I just don't understand why they won't support the families that live there the kids that live there the people that need the help Deborah Jordan is with Saskatchewan Ministry of Health New Brunswick has decided it's a priority and they're going to do away with ambulance fees why not do that here I think each jurisdiction each province each territory which has a responsibility for health services sets its priorities and not a priority in Saskatchewan um I wouldn't say it's not a priority Erika but I would say the availability of some services like oncology closer to home coverage comprehensively 1/4 of them I think as we do across many things we can look and learn across jurisdictions maybe there's something else the Scotch Awan could learn we do some more digging and find out Saskatchewan is the only province that charges a patient every time they're transferred between health centers for Sarab uses gun and Dave Carr that added up to thousands of dollars fees that wouldn't be charged anywhere else why does Saskatchewan charge for transferring a patient between hospitals that is something over the course of many years that has been brought forward as should that change in Saskatchewan is this something you would be willing to commit to looking at now not charging patients when you move them between hospitals uh no but all of our programs are reviewed and updated on a regular basis and certainly that would be one area that would fall into that regular review for now Dave Carr has to keep struggling to make the minimum payment on his wife's bill a couple of weeks after our interview we get an email from Dave's local Health Authority they finally promised to eventually write off the interest would hope that through all of this and possibly waves that have started perhaps some things will change mr. fruit smoothie and Sarah her parents pay off that $7000 ambulance bill with their credit card Sarah and her family have moved to Campbell River BC I love Saskatchewan I love the province and my family um but the government drove me away the one right there DC's ambulance fee only $80 peace of mind ready I feel a lot more confident in this provinces health care system and the support that my family house and my child's future family will hug her biggest hope bill one day all provinces do away with ambulance fees completely an emergency service she says no parent should hesitate to use next week on marketplace healthy request sounds good we're shopping for lousy labels every aisle of the supermarket is preying on us popular names garden vegetable bread with veggies and marketing games companies are allowed to say whatever they can get away with saying now they're like teenagers their job is to push the envelope everything from breakfast start the day with Nutella to dinner but we as consumers have to be more educated delish it's a sham it shouldn't be a breakfast food it should be like a dessert you'd have to have 177 servings to get the omega-3 that you get out of one serving of salmon well so what it is are you being served.the truth or food fiction you you

Channel: CBC News

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Id: Pla6k9xmZEU

Length: 22min 43sec (1363 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 06 2015

Reddit Comments

[u/Whadios]

Written article for those who prefer: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/ambulance-fees-a-roadblock-for-many-who-need-care-1.2946576

Sounds like Saskatchewan (the first story in video) has some of the highest fees. I wasn't able to find a list so made the following from searches. Have to keep in mind that I believe every province has a much higher fee if you're not a resident. Rules vary as you can see even for residents per province.

• AB: $385 ($250 if treated at site but not transported)
• SK: $325 in city, $245 + $2.30 per km rural
• MB: $270.00 + $3.00 per km
• PE: $150
• NS: $142.30
• NL: $130
• QC: $125 + $1.75 per km
• BC: $50
• ON: $45
• NB: $0

[u/phillybrownpants]

Had a friend get a bill. He never paid it. I dont believe anything came of it.

[u/DerpyDogs]

What's the issue? If I needed emergency medical treatment and quick transport to a hospital for live saving further treatment I would not have an issue with paying $385.