May I please, court, have you had a chance to review that, Mister Murdock? Yes, Sir. Alright. And do you recognize what those are generally, I do. And what are they? Text between Maggie and I. And what date do they take place? Umm. Seeing this June the 6th, 2021. Is that correct? That's correct, yes, Sir. All right. This time the state would offer states 572 and evidence objection to admitted without objection. All right, tell the jury. Where were you when these texts were taking place? I was in a hotel. City where you in Columbia, SC? And where? I'm not exactly sure where they were when they first started, but they would have been somewhere between the hotel, a restaurant and the ball field. Alright, but when you send this text on. June 6th at 1141 you say y'all in seat already, correct? Yes, that's what I did say, right. And they say, yeah, Maggie says yes, we like these seats. Is that correct? That's correct. I didn't notice that. So at that point in time, they are in the ballpark. Alright, and then you respond better than last night they extended checkout to one. Going to come then, is that correct? That's what that text says? Yes, Sir. So you're back at the room, is that right? Yes, Sir. Later on, you text after she asked you to bring a charger and says Muggie, you text, I'm dreading it. See you in a little bit. Is that correct? That's what I said. Yes, Sir. She responds don't come, but then asked about the charger. It says it's hot. Is that correct? Mr. Waters, yes, I assume you were reading it exactly so, yes, Sir. She eventually responds. Not crowded, but not the place to come if you don't feel well. Very hot and muggy. We are inside, sitting at the bar. Very nice indoors. Is that correct? That's what it says. Yes, Sir. And then you respond, don't you, by accident. They are making me leave. So I'll see y'all in a few, few, is that correct? That's correct. And who was making you leave where it was? It was past checkout time at the hotel. After you got an extended checkout correct, it appears so. And the reality is, is that. You were in that hotel. Suffering from withdrawals? When that's going on, is that correct? I was beginning to yes, Sir. And the reality is? Is that? Your wife and your son were on you at that time period because they had found pills just a few weeks prior. No Sir, that's not correct. Let's talk about. June 7th, OK. You got up that morning. Or what time do you think you got up and left that day? After having the benefit of looking at all these records. I don't know what time I got up and looking at the records, obviously I've been up for a while, but it appears I left shortly after noon. And you went to work? I did, yes, Sir. And what were you working on at work? I was working on. This Dominion Energy case was primarily what I was working on, that we had motions coming up later in that week. As I said earlier, it's. I believe that time. That it was biggest case that I had. Ever been involved in? And there were motions coming up in that I was bearing Danny had been Danny Henderson, my partner that was helping me with the civil. Case from the boat rack had been on me about getting a financial statement and I finished doing that so that. It could be given to Danny. It's primary is what I remember doing. Obviously I I talked to Jeannie. But. OK, and what time did you leave? And I'm sure I did some other routine. Office things, but I can't tell you what they are. What time did you leave? It appears that I left around a little after six from the records. I thought I'd left earlier than that, but I mean the records were. Seem to be pretty clear. And you were in fact, I think you said in both many of your interviews that you were working on the bookcase that day as well. Your financial declaration. Yes, I prepared the financial declaration. I didn't do any work in this. Civil case. So my my work in in that. Is what I did. I prepared financial statement which took me a little bit of time to to get the details on that but. I mean, that was the work I did. Own. In preparation for the motions coming up and what time did you get home? And looking at the records, it looks like I got home a little before 7645, I think 6640 something and then you and Paul rode the property. That's correct. And you, you told law enforcement you shot. 22. That's correct. You told law enforcement. That you never saw any blackout. That I never seen a blackout at that point in time when you and Paul are riding the property. No, I did not see a blackout. Did you tell law enforcement that you and Paul were around going around looking for hogs? If I said that. Then. If I told them that. You know, you don't look for hogs in the daytime, all right? That just the hogs are deep in the swamp in the daytime. So I can tell you that Paul and I were not riding around looking for hogs. But what we were doing is we were going from food plot to food plot, and we were looking for hog signs. All right. What hog will do is come out and root and they tear up food plots. They tear up, they tear up everything. And so that was one of the things we were doing. But. We were not hog hunting. We were not looking for hogs. We did not have the 300 blackout with us. Paul didn't have the gun that he. That blackout that he favored with him? While y'all rode the property. The gun that's in here, any rifle. There was no 300 blackout with me and Paul. All y'all had was a 22. And that was a 22 pistol, but we didn't have that with us. At that time riding the property. And you testified you've seen this, the Snapchat video of you on the tree, is that right? I have seen that. And you don't dispute the time of that video, do you? I don't. I don't even know what time that was taken, but whatever the gentleman came and testified to, I don't dispute that. And. What time? Well, let me ask you this. When did you go back to the house? Were you with Paul or were you by yourself? I was by myself when I went back to the house. I went back to the house basically, when Maggie got there. When Maggie got there. All right. And where, where had Paul gone? Prior to that, was he back of the house already or he came after you? Paul was at shop when I went back to the house. All right, so you beat him to the house is what you're saying? Is that, right? Beat him to the house? You were at the house prior to him getting there? Yes. And you say Maggie was there at the same time or there before you or thereafter you. That's when I'm not absolutely certain about. I believe that Maggie came through the kennel entrance and going back and looking at these records and these times I believe she came through to kennel entrance while Paul, Paul and I were at shop, but. Either way, I got to the house. Very shortly after Maggie got there, and I I believe that she came through and I believed that I went right behind her. And when did you take the shower that you've been talking about? I believe when I first went in the House. I mean, I would have talked to Maggie for a second, but I'd seen her that morning, so I would. Left your clothes on the floor? I'm not sure it makes sense to me, given what Blancas? Said, but I couldn't tell you. One way or the other. About what time was that you think? In looking at the records, I think that was a little after 8. You're saying Maggie was already there at that point? When I got to the house, yeah. And what did you do after that? I came back out, sat down on the couch to eat dinner. What ballet time was that? A few minutes later and it didn't take me long to shower. And. You say Paul was already eating at that point. He was. You say he left. 1st. What I what I said is he got up and he finished eating and he left our immediate vicinity. Now. Umm. I don't believe he left at that point, given what I've looked at time records and I believe that he was around the house for. A little bit longer. And just to be clear, but I didn't see him, all of this detail was people were hearing for the first time yesterday like we talked about before, correct? Say that again. All of this detail that we're going through right now is not anything that you related before. We're all hearing this for the first time yesterday, Jackson. Your Honor, 5th Amendment privilege objection is overruled. So, yes, I I did not tell law enforcement. Actually, I don't think law enforcement asked me what I did when we first went to the house, but I clearly lied to law enforcement about. What I what I said yesterday? All of this the last time you saw your. Supposedly saw your wife and child all of this detail. You, you, as a lawyer and a prosecutor, didn't think that was important to offer on your own. Well, I think it's important. You told this jury how cooperative you were you've been, and how much information you wanted to provide. But you left out the most important parts, didn't you? I left out. I left out that I sure did. You don't consider that one of the most important parts? I think it's important. All right. Tell me about what happens next. Tell me about how Maggie and Paul end up out down at the kennels. I'm not. I'm still not absolutely certain exactly how they ended up at the kennel, but in looking at the time frames and looking at the the GPS points, I think I pretty well know because I wasn't sure if Maggie had walked to the kennels or. Or ridden to the kennels and I wasn't exactly sure how PayPal got there, but. I'm all but certain that Maggie and Paul went to the kennel together. And what was the discussion? You said that they were going down there but you didn't want to go. Is that right, Maggie? What I said is Maggie asked me to go to the kennels with her and. I wasn't going to go, I said I'm not going to go. And how long after she left did you supposedly go down there? It was very quickly. And what did you tell this jury and all these new facts as to the reason you changed your mind? Why did you change your mind? I just had a shower number. When when you go to the kennel you always end up shop. Dogs are running around. You always going to end up doing more work, right? Is hot. I've already had a shower. I didn't want to go to the kennel. I understand that. So why did you change your mind? Because Maggie wanted me to. So you thought about it for a few minutes and then decided to go down there. I don't think I sat and contemplated, am I going to go? Am I going to go? I think that like many things Maggie wanted me to do, if I didn't do it at first, I ended up doing it. And you took the golf cart down to the kennels. That's correct. How long does it take to drive from the house down to the kennels in a golf cart? In looking at the records from OnStar and all of that, it seems to take about a minute in the golf cart. Nope, in the in the suburban. So I would think it's probably in looking at those speeds of what, 2024 miles an hour? I would think it takes double that. I think it takes a couple minutes so you can see the least a couple minutes to drive down there. That's correct. When the kennel video was going on, had you arrived before that? I believe that I had. OK. How long do you think you had been there before that was going on? Not long, because when I got there. In looking at the kennel video. You can see Papa standing in the kennel. When I got there. Paul Paul wasn't standing in the kennel. He wasn't in the kennel anymore. Well, he wasn't in the kennel like he is in the video. He's. I mean, he's probably, and I don't know exactly, but I know he wasn't in the kennel. He was like in the driveway. He was fooling with cash. He was in the driveway. But like close to the kennel. But not. In the kennel like he is in the video, so the video happened after that. According to you. Video happened after I got there. You first saw Paul, you're saying he wasn't in the kennel. When did the video happen? I believe that to be the case. OK. After you had arrived. Is that correct? Yes. And very shortly after I arrived. But after I arrived. And did you tell? Maggie, at that time that you were going to go to Alameda, I did not. Did y'all discuss it at all according to you, to these new factor testifying? I don't believe so. Did you have any conversation with her? Had you had a conversation, did you have a conversation with Paul about the dogs, about cashier's tail prior to going down there? Prior to going down there. I don't, did I have a conversation with Paul about cash out cash and some problem with his tail prior to going down there? Did you have any knowledge of that prior to going down? I'm not sure as I sit here today I I don't recall that but. I don't. I don't. I don't think so. When you first arrived in the golf cart, where did you pull up to? I pulled up right where Maggie was, which is where she was standing in the spot where she could see in between the chicken coop and the storage room of the. Kiddles, where the dogs were back up in those planted Pines behind the kennels to the left of the chicken coop. And. What did you do after that? I went back to the house. Pulled up you get out of the the the golf cart. When I pulled up, I stayed on the golf cart. Stayed on the golf cart. How long did you stay on the golf cart? How long I was down there? No, I got off to take the chicken from Bubba. How long were you down there before you took the chicken out? Short time like what? Couple minutes. And what were you doing during the couple minutes before you got over there to deal with Bubble talking to Max? And what did y'all talk about? I don't know. You don't remember? No, Sir. I do know that Maggie was very concerned about Paw. Paw and. You remember a lot of detail about all these new facts, but you don't remember what you talked about. I don't remember. The exact details of what we talked about, I believe that at that time. We may have talked about. Paw paw. But I'm not certain. Were you withdrawing at this time? At this time? No, Sir. You weren't withdrawing at all. I mean, I would only withdraw when I didn't have pills. And then you're saying you had pills. Down there for a couple of minutes, I think you've said now before you get off the golf cart. About yes, Sir and. Where do you go at that point? I take the chicken from Bubba, so you get up. Well, I mean Bob is you know Bob is come out there with this chicken. I mean he's showing us hey, I caught this chicken and. I take the chicken from Bubba. He came up by the golf cart and he came up to Maggie and I, which I was on the golf cart. She's by the golf cart. I mean, he's not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us. Is this during the channel video or is this after the channel video? Well, no. You hear Maggie say he's got a chicken. That's what she's talking about is Bubba caught a chicken. Alright, so is the kennel video still going on before you go get the chicken? I mean, you've heard it correct. You've heard in this courtroom. I don't know exactly. I don't know exactly, but in close time into Bubba coming out of those woods with the chicken, I got up and took the chicken from him. Let me ask you this, were the dogs? Barking and carrying on or going out into the woods or acting like they sent somebody was around that they didn't know. Were the dogs acting like there was somebody around that they didn't know like dogs do? No, no, they weren't. There wasn't nobody around it. The dogs didn't know. Dogs didn't didn't to your indication, since anything out of the ordinary, they were just chasing after beginning. There was nobody else around for them. To sense. You've heard the kennel video. Would you agree with me that it lasts for about 50 seconds? I agree with that. So it would have ended around 8:45 and 45 seconds. Would you agree with that? I do agree with that. Did you have the chicken out of? Above his mouth at the end of the kennel video, or did it take longer than that? You know, I can't remember exactly when in the video he came up with the chicken, but I would have had to. I would have had the chicken out of his mouth within. 1015 seconds of. Of Maggie. Saying. He's got a chicken. And so then what did you do? I put the chicken up. All right. How long did that take? Did you get out of the golf cart to do that? All right. And you had to go walk to where it was? Yeah, I mean it. Few feet, but I I did that, yes. All right. So how long did that take? We're at 846 now. How long did that take? Seconds, all right. And what did you do after that? Got back on the golf cart. And what did you do after that? I left. You left, jumped on the golf cart and left. That's what I was getting ready to say. Did I get on the golf cart and leave that second? Probably not. But did I get on the golf cart and leave? Very quickly after that, I did. OK, yeah. Thank you, testified yesterday. I got out of there. I did. Why did you get out of there so quick, Mr. Murdoch? Because it was chaotic, it was hot and I was getting ready to do exactly what I didn't want to do. You're getting ready to do what you didn't want to do. That's correct. I was getting ready to sweat. I was getting ready to work. Went back to the air conditioner. So did you say goodbye? According to your new story. Did I say goodbye? Yeah. Did you talk to them at all or did you just get the chicken put on there, jump on there and just take off? I wouldn't have just gone off. I mean, I would have said I'm leaving, OK. Did I say goodbye? Bye. And again, I mean that would have been some, you know, there there would have been some. Exchange. I'm staying here. What was that exchange? I mean, you have you've had such a photographic memory about these new stories. What? What, what? What happened here? Not. I can't tell you the exact words you don't remember. Your conversation after you put that chicken up did y'all talk about the chicken. No, I don't think we did. Did you talk with Paul about cashier's tail? After the chicken? Yeah. No, I know I didn't do that. Did you tell Maggie I'm going to go check on him at that point? No, I don't. I don't tell Maggie. Yeah. I certainly would have said something to that effect. So unlike everything else with the new story, you just can't recall what what that would have been. Well, you know, I mean, you're making that categorization. I think there's other things about that that I can't remember. But if the question is, can I remember exactly what words I used when I gave Maggie some? Salutation when I'm leaving. I can't tell you what those were, but it would have been something to the effect of I'm leaving, OK, what? You would concede that there was at least some conversation, that you would have just put the chicken on there and jump ran back to the golf cart and taken off? All right. So we'll let's you want to say a minute. Does that sound about right? A minute for what? To have? Just whatever interaction it took for you to then, according to your new story, drop back to? No, Sir, it wouldn't have taken me a minute. It would have been. It would have said it would have been. I'm leaving. I'll see you in a minute. OK, so I have 30 seconds. I don't think it would have taken 30 seconds, but I mean, I'm fine with you using whatever time you want to apply, but I don't think it's asking about real life here and and how people interact with one another, Mr. Murdoch. I mean, So what you're telling this jury, I'll call your fuzzy on these kind of details, is that you jetted down there, you dealt with the chicken and jetted right back. No, Sir. No, Sir, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't get down there and I didn't jet back. I got up after Maggie asked me to leave, after Maggie asked me to go with her, and I didn't. I got up. I went and got on a golf cart. I drove down there. I did what I did. I said I'm leaving or something to those words and I went back alright, well, if it's about 846. If the kennel video ends at 8:45 and 45 seconds and it's about 846. We at least concede that maybe it was about a minute before you got on that golf cart and headed back. Just reasonable real life maybe. I mean, I don't think it was that long, but maybe, sure. But I don't think it was that long. I mean, exactly what I thought was going to be going on at that kennel, why I didn't want to go there to begin with is exactly what was going on. And I left are these also? Convenient facts and your new story that have to fit with the timeline now that that evidence has been thrown in your face. Does that sound like real life to you, that you jet down there and jet back? Mr. Murdoch, Mr. Waters, that I just told you I didn't get on my golf cart and jet down there. I didn't jet back the reason why you have to be. Mr. Waters, hang on. Just answer before another question is presented. The question. Are you responding to the last question? Yes, Sir. I'm responding to your question and and and you're using words that I'm not using. And and and that's your categorization. I'm entitled to ask my questions to you, Sir. Absolutely. OK and I'm going to answer them. All I'm saying is I'm, I'm taking issue with the manner in which you're changing what I'm saying and disagree. This is a new story. You disagree with that characterization. Yes, this. This is the first time that this is being told openly. And you disagree to my characterization that you've got a photographic memory about the details that have to fit. Now that you know the these facts, but you're fuzzy on the other stuff. That complicates that. You disagree with that? I do disagree with that. I think that I I think that I have a good memory about a lot of things on this. Video ending at 84545. So just to take care of the chicken, put it up, I was going to say 847, but somewhere around there, I think you said somewhere around there. Is that fair? Just to do whatever you need to do and get on that cart before you head back. The Kennel video ended at 8:45 and 45 seconds. 846, it certainly could have been 847 before I left out of there. OK, I think it was sooner than that, but it could have been 60 seconds. 75 seconds, correct. After it ends, if it ends at 8:45 and 45 seconds is a minute and 15 seconds. You characterize yesterday as I got out of there, right? That is exactly what I did. So if we're at 847, I think you said. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, it's 2 minutes to get up back to the house, correct approximately. And when you got back to the house, where did you park the golf cart? Same place I've gotten it from, right where Mark Ball testified that it was. And what door did you go in? I would have gone in the front door. And if you left. Around. 847. And it took about 2 minutes to get up to the house. What time would that make it, Mr. Murdoch, if I left at 847? And if it took Me 2 minutes, that would make it 840-9849. When you testified, you went inside and the TV's on, right? I did go inside and the TV was on OK. And. You lay down. Is that right? I did right before you said you'd been napping for an hour or so or napping that entire time. But now you you lay down on the couch. That's correct. All right. And maybe those for a second. Maybe, according to your new story. How long did you dose and if if I dosed? Extremely short time, extremely short time. Because you would agree with me that at 902 you're up and moving. According to the data, I agree that according to that data. My phone's recording steps at. Whatever time it is 902 something. How long did it take you? If you're at the house at 8:49, how long before you went late on the couch? I would have gone straight to the couch, probably. I may have gone. About a sink or, you know, I may have gotten a spit cup, but. It would have been basically straight to the couch. Right to the couch. Yes, Sir. And you're telling this jury that. That's what happened. And you were back at the house at 8:49 and you lay down on the couch and goes for a second and then you were. Up with more steps in a shorter time period than you had done all day. And your number is 849. What I'm telling this jury is that I went down there and when I took that chicken from Bubba. I would have said something to Mags. I got back on that golf cart and I drove back to my house. After getting back to my house, I went inside. And in short order, I went to the couch. That's what. I'm telling this jury, did you go anywhere, anywhere else in the house? Mr. Waters, I can't tell you specifically about that. I don't. Think so? But I may have. Did you have that tan blackout and a 12 gauge shotgun on that golf cart when you drove down there? Jen. No. Did you see them when they were down there? No, no. So we got you back around 8:49 and you're leaving at 9:02, correct. And you didn't see any weapons down there. You just happened to be back there. You didn't hear anything at all. Did you hear anything at all, Mr. Murdoch, during that time period? No, I did not. Then you tell law enforcement that you thought you heard them pull up. Then you tell law enforcement that I did think they had pulled up. All right, so that was that. You did think that. So now you're saying there was a car pulling up. No, you didn't testify to that yesterday, did you, in your new version of events that I don't construct? Mr. Waters, I don't believe there was a car pulling up, but that's what you told law enforcement. Didn't I told law enforcement that I thought they had pulled up? But you're saying you couldn't hear blackout shots, supposedly, but you could hear that, correct? I didn't say I couldn't hear blackout shots, but. I'm saying that I thought when when I got up from taking a nap, if I took a nap. But when I got up from laying down. As I was getting ready to go to my moms, there was a point in time where I thought Maggie and Paul had come back. You also told them that you thought you heard a Wildcat, and maybe it was a person or something like that as well. No, that's not what I said. What did you say then? I said when I went outside that. There's a a house cat, that's what that's gone wild. And he hangs around. He goes from hanging around to shop, goes from hanging around the house. At different times you might and there be times you don't seem. And he had been around the house and when I went outside. I believe that cat was over there. And you made a point of mentioning that to law enforcement. I never thought it was a person, but you made a point of mentioning that to law enforcement, correct? In the course of discussing it, I did tell them that. But you never told them all this new story that you've constructed in light of this trial, is that correct? I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. I lied about that. And at the same time, you also looked at this jury and tried to tell them that you had been cooperative in this investigation. Other than line 2. Them about going to the kennel. I was cooperative and every aspect of this investigation very cooperative. And maybe the most important fact of all, that you were at the murder scene with the victims just minutes before they died. Right. I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. We'll take a break at this time for about 15 minutes, talking to the jury. When you picked up that chicken, was there any blood on it? I don't believe, Sir. Did you wash your hands or all? At that point in time. I don't believe that I did. And when you say you were there, you said Maggie was near nearby you, is that correct? Right by me? Was she messing with the hose at all? At that time, no, she was not. Did she mess up with it the entire time that you were there according to your new facts today while I was there, she did not. Touch she she was not fooling with a hose at all. All right, I'm going to. Move this thing along. I'm going to put up on the screen states 519 which is the condensed timeline if I could have the computer input please. It's the condensed timeline, Mr. Griffin. Terminal right? You see that out there, Mr. Murdock? Yes. All right. I'm on page 5. You see that cell tower map? The support on my screen I do see that. Umm. Would you agree with me that it reflects no cell tower activity on your phone from 652 to 904? I do agree with that. Let me ask you this, Mr. Murdoch, did you take your phone with you down to the kennels? According to the new facts that you've testified to yesterday and today, I must not have. You must not have. If this is accurate. No, Sir. Is that typical for you? Sure. It is absolutely OK if and when I'm going now, it wouldn't be. It would be unusual if I was going out for any extended period of time or if I was going even on the property. If I was going somewhere for an extended period of time, I would usually have my phone but for me to go. No one. And I'm going to the kennel and coming right back. That's not unusual at all. I mean, there's very you've heard the testimony about the service out there. The service is terrible. You have to be in a particular spot. Then you have to find a spot. The answer is you don't know whether or not you took it down there. I believe that I probably did it based on this data on this, but unlike the photographic memory about other things, you don't remember whether or not you had your phone on. Never claimed to have a photographic memory, but I do not specifically remember if I had my phone that night. I do not dispute it based on these. On this data, and that's not unusual for me, just like you don't remember according to your new story. The last conversation you had with Maggie. No, I remember, I remember having the my last conversation with Maggie. Looking at this screen you have. The map up there, we're on page 6 and it shows you arriving back at mozelle at 6:42. You don't speak that now, is that correct? No, that's that's what the this data appears to show. And looking at the data. Moving on to page 7, you have Paul arriving about 704, is that correct? You don't have any reason to dispute that. Well. That's what it says. He's arrived at 4147 Moselle Rd. Which is the address of the shop. The house is 4157. I believe that Paul actually got there a little bit before that. But I think that's approximately accurate. I think Paul got there a little bit closer to 7:00 o'clock. You would agree, though, that's the earliest data point that reflects his presence in my zone. If that's what the records show. You don't dispute that. I don't dispute that. That's if that's the earliest data point. But again, I believe he got there a little bit earlier and I I tried to look at these records to see if I could, if that could be refuted and. I believe he got there a little closer to 7 or a little bit before seven. Yeah, that's a good point. You looked at these records a lot before you had your testimony yesterday today, didn't you? Mr. Murdoch, I've looked at these records. Other than the OnStar records that just came when they were provided to me. Sure, I've looked at them. Right here. We have some steps on your phone. 29 steps. And then down at the bottom, we have 89 steps. Is that consistent when you and Paul were together on the property? I mean, sure, we we would go to different locations on the property. Sometimes we would get out, sometimes we wouldn't. We get out and walk around. We'd look at stuff. We do things. For example, you saw me messing with the tree. There'll be other ones we may get out and look at a feeder, maybe other ones. We get out and look at hog signs where hogs are rooting. So it would be perfectly consistent with. What Papa and I were doing that day. And 8052? 809. Would you agree that that's the last steps reported on your phone? Before 9:02, when you become a very busy bee. If that's what these records show, I see I took steps. Is record show I took steps between 8:05 and 8:00 to 9:00. So would you concede then that you're at the house around 8:00 or 9? I would have thought so, yes. You said Paul was already back at that point? No, I I said. Just the opposite. When did he get there? All right. You talking about when I left the shop and went to the house, when Maggie was there, before you ate dinner, as I said earlier. Paul and I were at the shop. Maggie got home. I left Paul at the shop and I went to the house. I think you were saying that, I said. I met Paul at the house and I said incorrect. Paul was still down at the shop when you were at the house, correct? When I first went to the house, Paul was still at the shop, I believe. Alright. And was Maggie there when you arrived at the house? Yes, I believe she was alright. And 809 is the last steps that you have on this phone before 9:02, correct? That's what the data shows. Looking now. At page 15. I'm sorry, page 14. Your steps that you say when you got to the House of 809 and Paul stood out at the shop, but don't these records reflect that Paul is pinging with GPS data at the house at 808? This record appears to show Paul at the house at 808 right. So those records don't fit. With your new story that you've testified yesterday and today, is that correct? No, I don't. I don't believe even right now, Mr. Waters said. That's right. I'm not saying what you're doing is you're taking 809 and saying that I'm at the house. And I mean that may or may not be right, but what I'm saying is, is that. When? Maggie came through, I left, and I believe that Paul. Stayed at the shop. Now. Did Paul come right behind me? I'm not sure, but when I when I left him, I believe that when I left to go to the house, I believe that Paul stayed at the shop for a minute. When you got to the house, did you put your phone down? I'm sure I did. Did you put it in the car in the suburban? Did I put it in the suburban? When you got back to the house, did you put it in the suburban? Was the suburban parked out front of the suburban would have been parked wherever I parked it, which is where I believe on the side. And did you put the phone, your phone in the suburban at that time? Where'd you put it? I'm not sure where I put it. I'm not sure about that either. No, I'm not sure. When I went in the house. I'm not sure where I put my phone. I would think that I, you know, I would think that I put it down somewhere. Probably about a couch. Didn't you testify yesterday when you were being asked by your your lawyer about that pause at Alameda when you were living, leaving and you had a very specific recollection of your phone and falling down in the crevice and you had to pick it up and get it out? You remember testifying to that, but you don't remember what you did with your phone when you got back at this point. Two distinct different things. I'm I'm coming in the house and I put my phone down. I don't have a routine spot that I put it in right on this corner right there. You know, I would I would assume that when I went in the House I put it somewhere either on the table. You go by going to the going to the couch. I may have taken it to the bathroom. It may have taken me a. Few minutes to go to the shower so I can't tell you exactly where I put it. Full specific recommend recollection when you need it to try to make the new story, business juries hearing, and everyone's hearing yesterday and today with the data correct. But you're awful fuzzy on far more important things, aren't you, Mr. Murdoch? Which which question out here. I'll answer the first one first. No, I I don't believe that's convenient and I disagree with your categorization of the description. But you you remember the console story, but you don't remember where you put your phone, whether or not you took it down to the kennels, whether it was on the you put it in the suburban, don't remember any of that but. They're going. You remember that console story, correct? Well, I don't remember the console story, but you know, in that suburban and and it's not the first time that it happened, but when that phone got down there, you had to go to great efforts to get it out and you couldn't just reach over there and get it out. All right. You say when you got to the house that Maggie was already there, yes. And we saw your last steps were at 809. Well, that's what you saw when my this data recorded my last steps. But as you heard this testimony too, Mr. Waters. You know that's not a precise. That that's not a a precise y'all. You heard the testimony, you know what it is. Well, how did you get back to the house? Remind us. From the shop, yeah, I went into a white pickup truck, went in the white pickup truck. OK. And when you got into the house, where did you go? We've already discussed this. I I took a shower. Whether I did things for a moment before I went to the shower. I'm sure I talked to Maggie because she'd been gone. And if she came through the kennel, which I believe she did, we only talked briefly, so I would have talked to her, but I would have quickly gone to take a shower. Going over to page 16. You would agree with me that the data. Reflects Maggie start logging steps and her phone disconnecting from the Mercedes around 8:17, correct? I agree. At 8:17 her phone ends connection to her Mercedes and starts logging steps. I don't see that, but I don't dispute it. Well, you see the purple line talking about it just connecting from the Mercedes. I see where you talking about. So yes, the 817 her phone starts logging steps. I agree with that. So would you can see that that appears to be when she arrived. No, I I don't believe that's when she arrived. I believe that. I mean, it was very normal for Maggie. When she's driving to jump out of the car, run inside, go to the bathroom, do things and either send me or Paul or go back or Buster, or go back to her car herself and unplug her phone. So, I mean, I agree, that's when our phones unplugged, but I believe that Maggie got to the house a little bit before that. That's the whole reason why Paul and I went to the house. OK, but you're saying Paula robbed after Maggie. Is that what you're saying? At the house? I believe so, yes, Sir. That's what I recall. And and Paul arrived at the house after I arrived at the house. I believe. And if Paul got to the house? Around about that same time, he wasn't inside with Maggie and I. When you get to the shower. So you say if Paul got, he wasn't inside with Maggie and you. Is that what you said? Mr. Murdoch, is that what you said, Sir? You said if Paul got the house prior to that, he wasn't inside with you and Maggie. Is that what you said? I'm saying he was not inside. When I went to get in the shower OK. But again, looking back at this data point. 808 we see a little blue dot right there in the middle of the house. Done. Yeah, that's what these records show. And it also shows that circle that. Folks testified to what the range of what it could. Yeah, absolutely be within. So I mean clearly could be at that circle. Right in the middle of that circle. Almost like somebody drew a circle around the house, don't you very. Yeah, I do. But also in that circle is where you would park a truck if you pulled up. So you know, and I'm not saying that he wasn't in the house at some point in time there, but when I went to get in the shower, he wasn't in the house. And he very easily could have been there and been parked in the yard. Alright. You agree at the bottom of page 16 that. About 8:30, Maggie starts tracking steps again on her phone. Yes, Sir, that's what the data shows. You said the wrong button. And you would agree with me that about 838 Paul's fund. Shows them back up at the kennels. Well, yes Sir, I agree that at 8:38. Let me see which way. It's hard for me to figure out which one of these rings, but at 8:38 it shows Paul in whichever one of those rings is 56 meters wide. And I have no reason to believe he wasn't at the kennel. And then 84455, we've already gone through this, but that's the kennel video, right? Yes, Sir, that's correct. And you would agree with me that it lasts about? 50 seconds, correct. Yes, Sir, I agree with that. And you would agree with me. Moving on to page 19. That both Maggie and Paul's phones locked for the final time around 8:49. That's what the data shows. After that, you've agreed that Maggie's phone around 853 shows some steps being taken. That's what the data shows, yes, Sir. Data then shows carrying over. That's what it shows. Is that correct? That is correct. And then you would agree with me that from 902 to 906 your phone finally comes to life and starts showing. I do agree with that. I was getting ready to go to my mom's house, getting ready to go. I thought you take a shower already. You were just laying down on the couch. What all you need to do to get ready to go to your mom's house? I mean, it wasn't anything to get ready in in that aspect. I was getting ready to go. I was preparing to leave. I don't know if I got up, went to the bathroom. I don't know. I can't tell you exactly what I was doing. That's far more steps in a shorter time period than than anytime prior, as you've seen from the testimony in this case. So what? What were you so busy doing going to the bathroom? Don't think that I get on a train in the bathroom now. Didn't get on the treadmill jogging place. No, I didn't. Jogging. No Sir, I did not do jumping jacks. Doctor, last four months. Preparing to leave for my Momma's house. What does that mean? I mean, you're in the front room on that couch where you say you laid down the suburban just right outside. What all are you doing? I don't know if I got up and went to my room, went to the gun room, went back in that you've been so clear in your new story about everything. What? What were you doing during these 4 minutes? I disagree with your assertion about every detail. I don't recall. I know that I. Was getting up and I was leaving. I was going to check on my mom. But specifically what I was doing, I don't. I don't know. I know what I wasn't doing, Mr. Waters, and what I wasn't doing is doing anything. As I believe you've implied that I was cleaning off or washing off or washing off guns or putting guns in a raincoat, and I can promise you that I wasn't doing any of that. Also during this 4 minutes where you've got 283 steps. Not only are you moving around a lot, but you're making a ton of phone calls because that in that same time period you see this red line right here where over that four minute period. All those steps were taken. That's also when you're calling, making all these phone calls, isn't it, Mr. Murdoch? Well, I made the phone calls and making phone calls. Be allowed to answer before Mr. Waters steps on him again with another question. Please. Thank you. All right. You were making all these phone calls while you were taking all these steps which you can see that. Where you don't remember what you were doing? Well, I was making phone calls and. That that's shown here at 9:05. I called my dad. You know, I don't know that I was taking steps like you're saying I'm taking steps. I heard the same testimony you heard Mr. Waters. And you know, steps can be recorded any number of ways. I don't have a specific recollection of walking around. I don't know if I was hitting my phone like the guy showed or doing whatever that makes steps. But, you know, you're hitting your phone like that while you were making all these phone calls. What I'm saying, Mr. was I don't know that I'm just. Giving you an example, you're saying that I'm running around taking these steps and while I'm doing that I'm making telephone calls. What I will agree with is that this data shows that there was 283 steps recorded on my phone and sometime during that period I made certain phone calls. OK, all right. So not only for whatever it is, it's recording. Steps which are also making a ton of phone calls, including. Missed calls to Maggie, who is. 1100 feet away. Supposedly you're using the term a ton of phone calls. What I agree is that I I made the phone calls that are listed on these call data records. Which. You know a very normal phone calls for me. Do you know why so many phone? Calls were missing from the log around this relevant time period when law enforcement downloaded your phone on June 10th. From my phone? Yeah. No, I don't. Did you delete them, Mr. Murdoch? Not intentionally. Just around the time of June 7th, all these calls are missing. But you had nothing to do with that between June 7th and June 10th. No Sir, I did not and I did not delete phone calls from my phone. Mr. Waters, one of the most important things in this whole thing for me has been getting this. Data that I believe would exist. Phone calls and phone records would be part of that. I've been in enough civil cases and used phone records enough times to know that you delete a phone call from your phone, it doesn't disappear. So I can tell you, this jury and everybody who's listening that I did not intentionally delete phone calls. From our phone, yeah, because you started talking about the your your former prosecutor, correct. And former lawyer doing civil cases. We went through that yesterday. And boy, you're busy bee on that phone and right out of the gate at 9:02, right? Objections overruled. Am I a busy bee? I am using my telephone at. I think I call at 9:05, I start and call my dad, and I agree that I made other phone calls. And one of the first things you start talking about with law enforcement is these calls that you made to Maggie. Correct. You recall that from your first statement to law enforcement, one of the first things did I said to law enforcement, yeah, that's one of the things you talk about. I'm talking about with your interview with Special Agent Davao. I don't remember that being the first thing we talked about, but. If Mr. Owens asked me about it, then I. No, you shut it up, didn't you? Did you don't recall? No, I don't. I don't recall. Would you dispute me if I said you brought it up? Did I? Brought up? Brought up what? Mr. Murdoch, your phone. Phone calls to Maggie that I brought up. Phone calls to Maggie, to David Owens. I'm asking you, is that one of the things that you talked about in your first interview with Dave Owen? That you pulled out your phone and started looking at it, that you brought that up. Do you recall that? Well, but that's not what you asked Mr. Owens. You asked me, was that the first thing that I talked to him about and that was the discrepancy? I certainly don't dispute that Mister Owens and I talked about phone calls. But that's not what you said. So just to be clear, well, the real reason, Mr. Murdoch, is that you as a. Lawyer and prosecutor. Are up at 9:02, finally having your phone in your hand, moving around and making all these phone calls to manufacture an alibi. Is that not true? Absolutely incorrect. So that's just another circumstance and coincidence in this particular case. Right around the time. That you lied to law enforcement about maybe one of the most important facts in the case. Meant before the question, it is absolute fact that I am not manufacturing an alibi as you say. How do you remember so much detail about everything else, but you don't remember what you were specifically doing to generate 283 steps while you're making these all these phone calls in the same 4 minute period? I remember unequivocally without any doubt, we just clear a mind as I could have. At any time there, I never manufactured. Any alibi in any way, shape or form? Because I did not and would not. Hurt my wife and my child, so I know for a fact that I never, ever, ever created an alibi. Why don't you remember what you were doing when you were so busy for this four minute critical period? I do remember what I was doing. Other than I was. Getting ready to go. Well, that's because that's what I was doing. OK. Well, let's keep going. You made those calls. To Maggie in that four minute period. You had just seen them? A few minutes ago, when you say you went down there and came right back. Why didn't you just? Take that quick little left 11 hard 100 yards away and stop by. See why they didn't answer the call. You're obviously wanting to get in touch with them. Why didn't you go down to the kennels that were so close by? There was no reason to. I mean, making multiple missed calls to Maggie and she's so close. And there's a driveway right there. Why do you not just go down there and say, hey guys, I'm heading over there? It wasn't important to do that. Me, me making those phone calls is simply me letting. I believe I called Maggie and I believe called I called Paul, but that that that's simply me just letting them know that I'm leaving for a minute. I'll be back. The fact that that they don't answer. It is not unusual at all. Now it is odd. It is unusual that they never call me back. And but, but at that moment, the fact that there's a missed call when when I know they're on the property, I mean that doesn't even register. At all that, that's perfectly normal to try to call somebody who's on the property and not be able to get them and and as far as not going down there, there there was no sense of urgency. Maggie was with Paul. You know. She should be as safe. And she could be. And she should. Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeida when you were at the kennels? No, I don't believe I did. Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeida during supper? I know that we had talked about it. I talked. I don't believe we talked about it at supper, but we may have. I know that I talked about that I was going to go over there and then I decided that I wasn't going to go over there. But what was your conversation at supper? Tell me specifically if you could, please. Account going to Alameda, I can't tell you that we specifically talked about. The only thing that I can tell you we specifically talked about at supper was Paw Paw. Alright, and what was the conversation? Maggie was. Just concerned Paul, Paul had been having. For young person, Paul had been having high blood pressure. And he's very resistant to go to the doctor. And this has been going on for a little while, but lately Paul's feet had swollen and for 22 year old have start having swollen feet concern both of us and it particularly concerned Maggie and we talked about that. OK. Y'all talk about Mr. Randolph at all. I'm sure we did. Do you remember that group text coming in about whether or not anybody was going to go see Mr. Randolph at the hospital the next day? Coming in. I don't remember it coming in till the next day, but I've seen. I've seen the data. Why didn't you? Did you ever text the group and say you were going to Almeida at all? No. Did Maggie ever did you and Maggie ever specifically discuss her going along with you to our meeting? I don't believe that we did. I know that there was a point in time where I said Maggie might go, but it's. Highly unusual for Maggie to go and visit just my mom. It it that that whole situation, it just made it made Maggie sad and she doesn't like to go so. You I don't believe that we did. But I do acknowledge that at some point I said she might go for some reason. You told law enforcement on multiple occasions that. First of all, Maggie was planning to stay at Edisto the night of June 7th, correct? I did say that, alright. And you also said that you came to find out that she came home of her own accord, correct? She told that to law enforcement. Is that true? She did come home of her own accord that she decided on her own to come home because she was worried about you. Didn't that what you said? I did say that and I I believe that to be the case. But since we've despite what you told law enforcement, we've since seen the text. That you actually called her and asked her to come home on the night of June 7th? No, Sir. That's not correct. That's not correct. No, Sir, that's absolutely not correct. So you heard your sister-in-law Marion testified in just that fact of a conversation she had with Maggie. But you're saying that's not true. I don't believe that's what Matt Marion said. And you, your defense put in this exhibit, exhibit 107. Where? Maggie texted Blanca and said Alec wants me to come home. I've I've seen that and I agree with that. Is that it up? On the screen? Up. I've got the wrong input here, I'll just hold it up. You've seen this tax. I have seen that, Mister Waters. The only dispute I have with what you're saying is you're you're saying that I called Maggie and wanted her to come home. I always wanted Maggie to come home. And I would have talked to Maggie about coming home before she ever left to go. To Charleston and to Edisto, and I can tell you this. And I didn't realize this at the time, but I realized it now that. Maggie was already undecided, but now I didn't know this. But Maggie was already undecided about. Staying at Edisto, I can promise you that, because. Bubba and Grady. We're in their kennels, as y'all well know. That night. If that day, if Maggie was certain that she was spending the night at Edisto, at a minimum bubble would have been with her, and probably both dogs would have been with her. It was very unusual for her to spend the night anywhere without one of us. Or those dogs. So that tells me that when she left that morning, she was already seriously thinking about coming back. So you're saying that you never called her and had a conversation that day asking her to come home, specifically on the night of June 7th, 2021. Maggie and I had a couple of phone conversations that day. What I'm telling you is that before she left. No, I I don't believe we had a phone call about that. We may have discussed it during the phone call, but I didn't make a phone call to her to ask her to come home. I'd already told her I wanted her to come home. I always wanted her to come home. You heard Marion say that, too. Did I always wanted Maggie with me? Maggie thought enough of it to talk about it with Marian, didn't you? The fact that I wanted her to come home. Well, sure. I mean, that's what Marian said. So you're denying that you called Maggie and specifically asked her to come home that. I didn't make a phone call to Maggie to ask her to come home that night. I asked Maggie to come home long before she ever left. And I probably asked her again each time I talked to her, but I didn't make the phone call specifically for that, as you're saying. And to be clear, I'm certain that if Maggie was certain that she was spending the night. Bubba would have been with her and probably Grady. All right. Why did you tell law enforcement, though, that you found out after the fact that Maggie wanted to come home because she was concerned about you? Why don't you phrase it that way if what you're saying to the jury now was accurate? Why would you phrase it that way? Because I believe that to be the case that you found out afterwards. But now you're saying you knew. I'm saying I found out afterwards why she came home, Mr. Waters. OK. And she came home because she was worried about me. So I want to be clear about that. I did not learn that until. I think the day after she got killed. But you're saying. That you found out that after the fact you're telling this jury. That you knew the things that you just said about her wanting to come home. And you were unaware of what Marian would say at that point, either? No, I'm saying at that time I had not thought about Bubba and Grady since that time. I've thought about that. I'm certain of that. At the time, I thought Maggie was staying at Edisto. All right. She was going to Edisto to do the to meet the people, to do the work. Maggie loved to stay at Edisto, there's no doubt about that. It would not be unusual at all for her to stay at Edisto. But. Just like every other time I had already asked her please come back, come back. Always wanted her to stay with me. Always. But I did not learn about it. And Maggie even. Texted me. I'll see you in a few hours. But I did not know why she decided to come back. Until later. Is what I'm saying. And I learned it from Blanca. Blanca actually showed me the text. That she sent her. Talking about being worried about me. You would agree with me that you sent a text. To Maggie at 90858. While in motion in the suburban. As reflected by the data I do. Which was because I couldn't reach them by the telephone and I wanted them to know where I was. OK. Which is what we do. And you got to Almeda around 9:22. Believe that's correct. No, I don't. I don't have any reason. To dispute that. Made some more phone calls along the way. I did make more phone calls along the way while I was riding. Call Chris Wilson. I did call Chris Wilson. Had a short conversation with him. Is that right? I did have a conversation for however long the record show about 131 seconds, so that sounds about right. If that's what the records show, 2 minutes called your brother John Marvin for about 106 seconds, including connection time. Does that sound about right? That does sound about right. Arrived at 9:22. That sound alright? It does. And then at 9:24 you call that's the landline at Alameda, is that correct? That is correct. And then you went inside, is that right? Yeah, that's right, Shelly. That's right. Called the House phone to get Shelly to let me in. And when you were asked by law enforcement how long you were at your mother's house, you said 45 minutes to an hour. Wasn't that correct? I think I said a couple of different things, but I think at one time I did say that. But you know, routinely through this thing I kept saying, you know, when you get this data, you'll see exactly when you look at my phone. You'll see exactly when you do, you know. So you know. Me giving the times was always given. With the thought that, OK, that there's own star out there, there's whatever, but when you had a conversation with Miss Shelly after the fact, you actually asked her to say that you were there longer than 20 minutes. You know, I heard Shelley's testimony. I believe Shelly to be a good person. I wasn't trying to influence Shelley on any particular length of time because. At the beginning of this, I believe that data would show what data would show, and for me to tell her to say something when my own star is going to show something different just doesn't make any sense. So. You know. I I can't answer that. What my recollection is is that I told Shelly that y'all that law enforcement would be talking to her. We may have discussed how long I was there at that point in time. If I thought I was there 45 minutes, I may have said I was here 45 minutes, but. You know I can't tell you. And that's. The same thing. That block could testify to that you talked to her about the clothes that you were wearing. And made her uncomfortable, correct. Ask that question again. Similar to your conversation with Blanca that she testified about when you talked to her about the clothes that you were supposedly wearing, what made her feel uncomfortable. Do you remember that testimony, Sir? Similar to that, that you're talking to both of these individuals about their testimony in a manner that's inconsistent with what they know? I don't. I don't think, I don't. I don't think your assertion is accurate. You have to understand this on August the 11th. When I went to meet with David Owens. And in that David Owens asked me about, he showed me that Snapchat and asked me about the clothes that I had on and. Umm. Shortly after that the next time. I was with Blanca. I asked Blanca about those clothes because David Owens had asked me about him and was making made an issue about it and so. I checked with Blanca to see what what I specifically. Ask Blanca. And it was an issue to me, so I got Blanc and I said I need you to sit down and talk with me about this. This is important. Do you remember? My clothes. When you came to mozelle that day and she remembered exactly what she testified to, she remembered that my pants were there. She wasn't sure if the shirt was there. At that time, I think she actually thought the shirt was there, but she was clear that she wasn't sure about that. But no, no, she wasn't unsure, but she didn't remember but assumed that it was. So that was the conversation that. And why I was asking Blanca again, you're very specific about your memories of that conversation. Is that correct, Mr. Murdoch? You're Dang right. I'm. I'm. I'm consistent about that because a very short time before that. David Owens is asking me questions and telling me I'm a suspect in the murder of my wife and my child and asking me about my clothes. You Dang right, it was important. It was important, right? And you Dang right I remember what. Why I went to her and for what reason does the only thing you're concerned about is yourself. You're not concerned about giving accurate information to law enforcement, correct? What's the reason for that, Mr. Murdoch? Why don't you want to give accurate information to law enforcement? Why do you want to talk? To these women who both are employed by you or your family and try to influence what they are going to say, I I did want to give law enforcement accurate information. I told a lie about being down there and. I got myself wed to that, but. I wanted to give them as much. I knew that I hadn't done this. And I wanted to give them as much accurate information as I could. But the reason I went to Blanca is specifically because David Owens talking to me on August the 11th. You can see that you're underway about 942 heading back. 942 to 943. Turn on mozelle about 1001. Turn into mozelle at 1001. Umm. Sorry, it looks to me like I turned into mozelle at ten o'clock 10:00 o'clock on the dive, Sir. Yes, Sir. At the house at 10:05. Yes, Sir. And then that's when you went back to the kennels after you came back from Almeda, correct? I went to the kennels after I went to the house. At. I went from Almeda to the house to the kennels. And we got to the scene. You got out of the car. According to what you told law enforcement repeatedly. And went. And check the bodies correct. Before you called 911. Is that correct? No, Sir, that's not correct. You don't. You're saying you didn't say that to law enforcement. I don't know what I said law enforcement, but I can tell you this. I'll pull it up. And also may I ask Paul, Paul. I jumped out of that car. I know that I went back to my car and I called 911 as quickly as I could. That point in time when I got on the phone then is when I went. To them. And did the things that I did. So what you're saying is not accurate. You're saying that you didn't say very specifically to law enforcement? That you went to them prior to calling 911? Win. After you got out of the car. You told law enforcement repeatedly that you went over and checked the bodies before you called 911. No, I don't. If I did say that, I I don't believe that's accurate. Did I check Maggie and Paul before I called 911? No, Sir, that's not, that's not. I don't. That's not accurate. At least that's not what I remember. That's not what you remember saying, or that's not what you say now happens. No, that's not what. That's not what I believe happened. OK, but you don't deny that's what you said? Did, I said. Did I check Maggie and Paul before I called 911? I don't believe that's what I said. Now I know I checked them, but I don't believe I checked them. Before I call 911. Because I. I can pretty well remember. Vividly. When I checked Paul. Paul. I was already on the phone with 911. Looking at this data. They show the vehicle parking at 10:05 and 55 seconds. Yes, Sir. Ten. Oh, 557. Suburban arrives at the kennels. You agree with that? I'm sorry, say that again, Mr. one. At 10:05 fifty seven it shows the suburban arriving at the kennels. OK. OK. The 911 call. Was at 1006 fourteen. OK, just about 20 seconds later. You agree with that? I think that sounds right. Yes, Sir. I mean that makes sense. But that goes back to what I'm saying is I I pulled up. So. I saw them. And I know I jumped out of my car. Umm. But I believe that before I check them. That I'm almost certain. Then I went back and I. Got my that's when I went and got my phone and I called down one way. And then? After I called 911, they. I mean, there was a little while where there wasn't. I don't think there was anything going on. And I believe that that is the time period that I went and checked on. Them. I don't want to blame at this point, but that what you're saying here today, now that we have this data, that's not exactly how you expressed in the law enforcement in your prior statements. Is that correct, Sir? I disagree with that. I totally disagree with that, Mister Waters. We point to what you're talking about. Where's the 1st? Alright Sir, ohh. I've been watching. 1257. State your full name for me please. Alexander murk. And now your last name. So you're correct. For DAUGH. And you go by Alec. Yes, Sir. And date of birth, Mr. Murdoch. May 27th, 1968. Phone number for you 8039421227. And So what was your name? Yeah, Danny Henderson, OK. All right. As I stated on David Owen and Lower Rutland with Collin County, I'm in slid. I hate to have to do this, I understand. Yeah. So you don't. You don't. Have any problem with it so? Just start the talk. Take your time. Like when I came back here, I mean, I pulled up and I could see him and, you know, I knew something was bad. I ran out. I knew it was really bad. Well, my boy over there, I could see it was. I could see his brain open. And I ran over to Maggie. Actually, I think I tried to turn Paul over first. You know, I tried to turn him over and I don't know, I figured it out. The cell phone popped out of his pocket. That's. Started to try to do something with it, thinking, maybe but then I put it back down really quickly. And then I went to my wife and I. I mean, I could see. Did you touch Maggie at all? I did. I touched them, bow. I tried to take. I mean, I tried to do it as limited as possible, but I tried to take their pulse on both of them. And you know, I called 911. Pretty much right away and. She was very good. I talked to her. I told her I was going to get off the phone to call some family members. I did that. And. And with family members, did you call anyone? Call my brother Randy. And I called my brother John. Then I tried to call a little boy, real good friend, that's right around the corner from here, but I didn't get him. Yeah. Right around the corner. Is that who you're talking about? That's correct. But going back to your question. I mean that's that's the way I remember it what I said right there and I you know your your question about did I. Do these things before I called 911. That's not what I said then. And that's not what I remember now. You're saying now? Help. Check you came back, got your phone, and that's when you called 911. I'm not saying that now, Mr. I am saying that now, but to me, that's what I said then, I mean. I told her I called 911 right away. I didn't have. There was no time to do the things that I'm talking about doing in the in, in the time between. Getting there and. Calling 911 when you talked about calling Rogan and you said that he lived right around the corner, correct? That's correct. But. Rogan wasn't staying there at the time. That's the whole reason that cash was at your kennel, right? You knew that Rogan was staying. And in Beaufort a lot. But he was home a lot too. I didn't. I didn't know where Robin was on a daily basis. About keeping his dog cash at the kennels when he was staying with his girlfriend and working down in Beaufort. Yes, he had asked me that, but I mean, that had been some time before. I didn't know. Making a big deal about this, Mr. Waters, but that particular night. Add add didn't have a clue where Rogan was staying or not staying. I was trying to find somebody. To come out there with me, I'd called Randy, I'd called John. And Rogan was the next best alternative. And Rogan? I mean, Rogan, of all these kids that you've heard, Rogan Gibson. Ruro is like a Rogan you prefer when I call him. Rogan is truly like a son. To Maggie and I. And he was such a good friend of Buster, and he was such a good friend of Paul. And you've been through everything I have. You'll see that two weeks or three weeks prior to this, I ran out of gas. When bus and pawpaw weren't home. And Logan's to person that I called to bring me gas. Nobody's just feeding in any of that, Rogan. Would have helped you. Let me keep playing around, Paul, when you walked up, blood. Any any other? Anything else? I mean, there was somebody thing. Yes, Sir. I mean, like any other evidence. I know you said the phone fell out the pocket, but did you see anything else that didn't belong or shouldn't belong or that wasn't part of all? No, Sir. Not. No not. How about Maggie? You didn't see anything around them. What made you come out here tonight? Went to my mom's late stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to check on them and Maggie, Maggie the dog lover, and she fools with the dogs. And I knew she'd gone to the camp. I was at the House. You just testified that. In the wake of this, you didn't know what? You said the law enforcement, that was what you just said. No, I mean, I know. I know a lot of what I said to law enforcement, but there's a lot of things in looking back. And this video for one. The 911 call for one. Umm. I mean, there's a lot of things that I didn't remember, but right then and there. Just. Not long into this interview. You made a conscious decision to lie. Right there. Play that again. Said I was at the house. And I knew she'd gone to the county. I was at the House. I left the house. Played. Going to back it up some more, yeah, we can keep listening to it. Anything around now? What made you come out here tonight? Went to my mom's, a late stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. Umm. My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to check on them and Maggie Maggie's a dog lover and she fools with the dogs. And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the House. You don't hear it again? No, Sir. But I don't. So you made a conscious decision to lie right there this early into an interview, sitting in the front seat, correct. I don't believe so. You didn't make a conscious decision to lie? I don't believe that. I don't believe that was lying at that point. OK, tell me why not. Because Maggie had gone to the kennels and I was at the house, OK. So you think you were being that was not a lie at that point? I don't believe so at that. At what point did you decide to lie? I'm not sure, but it was in that it was in this interview. I believe that it was. OK, what's this interview? We're sitting in the front seat. Correct it is. You're not in custody, correct. I'm not in custody. They're giving you water, letting you chew tobacco, treating you politely. Correct me very politely. So you said starting this interview that it clicked that I'm that I'm a lie about the most important fact that I know. I'm not sure exactly when in it that I lied to, decided to lie, but I believe it was during this interview. I believe all those things that I talked about. You know, those things that have gone on, the things that people have said to me. About don't talk to anybody without a lawyer. So partners all told me that. A lot of my partners told me that, my dear friend. Chief Alexander was one said that overheard. I believe it was Sheriff Hill. I'm not positive I overheard him tell. I believe Mark Ball or Gray Holmes. Don't let him talk to anybody without a lawyer and. What I believe is that. Based on my distrust of sled. And getting in that interview, and I'm not positive about this, but I believe when he asked me, you know, about my relationship with my wife and my son, I believe that's when I decided to lie. But I'm not. When you had the GSR too, because that's what you testified to yesterday. That certainly contributed. And your doubt paranoia, too. You said that as well, correct? Things are what triggered the paranoia that started. As my addiction evolved. And so. Your. An experienced lawyer and you've been a prosecutor and you took the advice of your law partners that you should have a lawyer there as you read that as oh, I should lie. That's not an excuse. That's not what that means, is it, Mr. Murdoch? That's not it. You're not. That's not an accurate statement. What you just said, Mr. Waters? I just repeated. What you just said, you said was one of the factors was your law partners. And now you're blaming Sheriff Hill and and Greg Alexander told you that you needed a lawyer before you talked to police and you took that somehow as meaning I need to lie as a lawyer and a prosecutor. That's what you said, Mr. Waters. But I characterizing it from your perspective, Mr. Murdoch, because I think that's what you heard. Is that what you just said? Excuse me, Sir, that's not what I said. I believe those guys were trying to help me. I believe they cared about me. I believe they thought that I was in a condition such that I shouldn't. Talk to anybody, I mean. I mean, those guys had to prop me up. Help me get myself together just to be able to go talk to David Owens. I mean, they were trying to help me, but before that, that was just one of the many things that. I believe led to that. Situation sitting in there where those paranoid thoughts came to me. Dem talking about. Not talking to anybody without a lawyer. Brian Varnado checking my hands. Fact that I got a pocket full of pills. In my pocket. I was the person who. Found. Maggie and Paul. My distrust for sled. All of those factors combined. And made me decide that I also know him asking me about Maggie and Paul. Paul contributed to that. Paranoia. All I'm saying is I'm not disputing that I lied. I'm just saying at this point. You. You're saying I made a conscious decision to lie here, and I'm saying I don't think I made a conscious decision right there. I believe so you already had your GSR done at this point? Yes, Sir. OK. And you already talked to your law partners and talked to and heard Sheriff Hill, and now you're blaming him and I'm blaming Chief Alexander now as well for your lies. Read that one. You didn't say that yesterday, you just added that one. Be given the opportunity to answer the question. Just a moment. You can finish your last answer. Mr. Waters, I'm not blaming. Anybody accept full responsibility for what I did? What I'm saying is what I believe contributed to me doing that and the reason why I did that. I think those folks were trying to help me, so I don't blame them. I think they were worried about me. I don't dispute that. But you're saying you took that advice as I need to lie. No. What you're doing is you're isolating one single thing. Isolating anything. I mentioned all the factors. You've added some new ones, but I mentioned all the factors that you're blaming. Decision to lie. That's not what you did. What you asked me is you said I took, I took my partners telling me not to talk to somebody without a lawyer as a reason to lie. And that's an inaccurate statement. That was one of the factors that went into. A series hang on Mr. Waters, a series of events I. That caused me to have. Paranoid thinking? Aye, and then I lied. All right. But at some point it happened during this interview that you you crossed over. You're saying that you came into this interview intending to be fully disclosing to everything. And something happened in this interview that sent you over the edge and you said, hey, let me lie about the last time I saw my wife and child alive, supposedly, according to me. I certainly didn't go into that interview, I believe intended a lot, Mr. Waters. I wasn't capable at that point in time of planning anything. Or thinking through anything. So somehow during this interview, all of a sudden those senses came to you to plan and do that. When I got. To think in in that paranoid way that normally. As I said. I mean, I could take a deep breath and make it go away. I never had a situation where it lasted more than a matter of seconds. That night. After all those things had happened. It it didn't go away in a matter of seconds. And I decided to lie. Those are the clothes that you ultimately gave to Dave Owen, is that right? Those articles I gave to David Owens. At what point did you get get be able to check the pills you say or in your pocket? When did you do that? When I was in my bedroom. You're in the bedroom? Yes, Sir. I'm not sure where I put them, but ultimately they would go in my suitcase. So you that's when you did it? You have a specific recollection of that. No, I don't. I just noted I took them out of my pocket. If we watch this whole video, you think you could. If we watch the whole thing, you think you can say, OK, that's the moment where my senses came to me and I decided I was going to tell this major lie. I I don't. I don't know that it happened like that, but I mean, I may be able to tell you some things that contributed to it. We watched the whole thing. I just want to be clear though. At least on this one at some point during this interview. When? You were able to plan your lie. About this event. And you made that decision. Obviously it wasn't what we just played. It wasn't yet. It was some point after that. I don't think that's a lie right there is is the reason why I don't think that it's occurred before this, because what I'm saying there. I believe to be truthful, and I know, I know this. I know for a fact that when David Owens asked me about my relationship with my wife and my child, I know that that played a role in that. And I believe that. And I may be wrong, but I believe that this was before that you have heard the expression. Not telling the whole truth is the same as telling the lie. That's something you understood? As a lawyer and a prosecutor. Yes. Alright. All right, Mr. Murdock. Think you're falling for it? Please. Richard Alexander murder. And it's really your last name, so you could correct MURDAUGH. And you go by Alec. Yes, Sir. And date of birth, Mr. Murdock. May 27th, 1968. Phone number for you 803. And 421227. Alright. And So what was your name? Is Danny Henderson OK? All right, as I stated, I'm David Owen. And lower Rutland with Collin County, I'm a solid. I hate to have to do this, but understand yeah, I totally understand. So you don't. You don't. Have any problem with it? You hadn't decided to lie right there. That's right. I don't believe so. You told David Owen that you understood that he had to ask questions and you do what you need to do, correct. That is what I told him. You're on. This might be a good time for a break. Clock. And gentlemen. Addressing the jury will break till 2:15.
