Aggression & the Paranoid-Schizoid and Depressive Positions | FRANK YEOMANS

you know we were talking about how it feels good to act aggressively aggression feels good well aggression is just part of human nature basically human beings have loving feelings and aggressive feelings that's programmed into US biologically and then it's enhanced according to our developmental history we can be aggressive in the most direct physical form we can be aggressive in our words it can be pleasurable it can give you a charge to express some of your aggression people would be better off acknowledging that but most people aren't comfortable with their aggressive feelings they don't feel good about them so there's kind of a psychological slight of hand in which people manage to see aggression in other people but not in themselves that gets to what we call the paranoid schizoid position schizoid by the way means split the mind is split into two segments that don't connect aggressive feelings totally detached from loving feelings the paranoid comes from the fact that people who are not at ease with their own aggressive feelings don't see those feelings as in themselves but sees them existing in people around them so the other is aggressive I'm not that's where it gets dangerous if if you see others as aggressive and you're threatened by them what are you justified in doing attacking so a lot of aggression in the world is carried out by people who do not see it in themselves and can be vicious in the expression of their aggression all the while thinking they're totally innocent of any aggression perhaps the most extreme recent example of this is Isis they would burn people they would behead people they would throw people off roofs and this was all in the name of their moral code that would bring good and Holiness to the world and this way of thinking is extremely dangerous to humanity because it's not just Isis people who engage in that all kinds of groups do this now in contrast to this paranoid schizoid position where a person does not blend their aggressive feelings and their loving feelings there's the depressive position now that doesn't sound very desirable but it's a big step forward where you acknowledge you own and you're aware of the full range of your emotions The Good Bad and the Ugly so you accept your aggression you might not feel good about it but at least now you can manage it and control it by the way the depressive position is called that because when you own your own aggression there usually kind of a guilt and remorse that comes with saying to yourself hey I'm not just the innocent victim of others aggression I've got it in myself that might not be great but I'm better off acknowledging that than denying it and living in a frame of mind that doesn't really correspond to my complexity or the complexity of those I'm interacting with part of the par oid skitso position is the belief that you can find somebody in the world who is perfect who will just give you everything you want provide for all your needs that's what we call the ideal object or the ideal other it's a nice thing to believe in but the world doesn't offer that so if you advance from the paranoid schizoid position to the depressive one in addition to acknowledging your own aggression you realize that the world isn't going to give you the ideal provider the ideal leader the person who will solve all your problems people who think that they can find an ideal other are subject to the siren Call to the seduction of narcissistic antisocial leaders who promise the world cannot deliver on it but attract a following of people who are vulnerable to this wish for an ideal leader then we see all kinds of social problems that stem from that in terms of someone sort of entering the depressive position which in part involves accepting your own aggression can you give sort of an example of what that would look like yeah that's a really good question because it's not an easy transition to make so when we have a patient who's mind is working in that paranoid schizoid way what happens is that the patient does not see the aggression in themselves but can act it out so if I were to say to a patient you know I should let you know that next month I'm going to be gone for 10 days so I wanted to give you some notice about that and if the patient starts yelling at me which could happen I can't believe you're going away again you're way more than you're here you should have your medical license taken away they're raising their voice they're yelling then I would try to say you know I'm not taking away from anything you're saying but could we look at how you're expressing it to me on a good day it doesn't happen all the time the patient might be able to observe with you and see that even though the point they were making they had a perfect right to make they were ramping up aggression within themselves but without any awareness of that so that's how it might take place in a clinical psychotherapeutic environment it's trickier when you're dealing with people outside of that environment what if you're the kind of person that's like hey I'm mass murderer and I can accept this about myself um it's part of me it's part of me I wish uh I thought about that before because you're bringing up a very good question I would imagine a serial killer has an antisocial personality and in that particular personality constellation there seems to be an absence of loving feelings there isn't the caring concerned wish for warm attachments aggression is all they have now here we get into almost philosophical issues because you could talk about the concentration campu guard who could guide people or force people into the gas chamber and then go home and be seemingly a good husband and father I would in that case go back to the paranoid schizoid position and say that man wouldn't see himself as doing anything bad because his what most people would see as bad action was in the name of the ideal Third Reich and he's just doing what it takes to Institute the pure state of Aryan rule so he's doesn't think of himself as aggressive he thinks of himself as a servant of the good but that's different from your serial killer uh question I mean and there also might at some point I guess just be a moral code that has to step in yeah you're G is exactly right this gets to a really important uh notion of shared moral values how broadly are those shared and this connects with the polarization in our country right now when the country seems to function best it's when we believe in the values that are our stated values Liberty Justice for All opportunity for all fair shake for all if the large majority of Americans believe in those things then we have a shared system and we all feel United in that so if you get a moment in time which I fear is partly what we're living through where self-interested anti-socially prone people game the system don't really believe in the values they mouth Liberty Justice for All opportunity for allir shake for all but they only use use those values to their own gain so if you have a country where you give lip service to a fair shake for all but in reality the social divide is increasing exponentially eventually more and more people in the system are going to say is there anything real in those values or are those being used in the service of exploitation and Division I think unless we have a shared system of moral values that really is taken seriously honored and applies to everybody we're going to have the fragmentation that we're seeing and all hell breaks loose it's every man for himself or every group for themselves and we get back to the law of the Jungle I don't mean to be dramatic but without a shared value system a lot of conflict divide and attacking from one group to another is going to ensue and just to be clear just because we may say have this ideal situation or I hopeful situation where we have a shared value system doesn't mean that groups can't challenge the efficacy of the behaviors that are purporting to support the shared value system in other words what you're saying doesn't belly activism no absolutely not and I would differenti shape between the value system and the way one feels the value system is best implemented it gets tricky because some of the fervent energy of activists which of course is essential to society can kind of touch onto that extreme emotional experience of the paranoid schizoid mind in other words one feels things so intensely one has to do something about them the trick is to have that fervent energy and not totally vilify the other to be able to maintain some empathy with the other to understand the other's position because once it's all vilification the dialogue breaks down the best I can propose is that we educate people more about these simple relatively simple psychological truths that good is not perfect good is accepting everything within yourself not saying you're pure and anything wrong is with the other if young people get education in Civics why not include a segment about human psychology and the way these aspects of human psychology interact with political institutions group phenomena group Behavior I think then people would be more alert to the danger signals when Division and polarization take place to have that reflex to reflect on what's going on in your mind and what's going on between you and the other person instead of just acting at a gut level which is unfortunately what a lot of political positions are based on now if you find yourself reacting at a gut level take a step back look at the bigger picture see if you're engaging in something that takes you away from the complexity of the situation and leaves you in a simplistic and polarized position which is only going to lead to further conflict I think we could all many of us could say you know when I have responded to strong feelings where I've had a gut reaction and those feelings have insisted I do not very good things or yell at someone or lash out at someone to have the ability to step back and examine that before you jump would you could still choose to jump or do whatever you do exactly you know at least you've given it a minute and considered it yeah in the field of Psychiatry and psychology there are a number of different terms for that the one that's most current now is mentalization in the past we used to call it observing ego or Insight instead of acting on an Impulse with no thought involved evaluate the impulse take a moment to reflect on the impulse if we reflect on what's going on in us before acting then as you said you still might go ahead with the action but in an informed way and then you might not go ahead with the action you might turn it into something else like a statement rather than a behavior right so on and so forth yeah

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Length: 14min 5sec (845 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 27 2021