After the mutiny on the ‘Bounty,’ what happened to the mutineers who fled to the island of Pitcairn?

hey welcome to the show if this is thursday it must be this is what i'm just thinking i'm rudy max if you're just joining me for the first time i'm a travel uh journalist and broadcaster and i'm coming to you not from my home in saint paul because i wouldn't be sitting outside like this and i wouldn't be getting sunburned on this side of the face i'm uh in los angeles sunday los angeles middle of the day it's about oh i don't know 75 degrees and i'm outside and i'm delighted to be here uh as if you're a first-time viewer on youtube or on facebook every couple weeks i talk to someone interesting in the travel field often journalists in the case that's our case this week let me tell you about our guest his name is brandon presser and he wrote a book that i read two weeks ago called the far land 200 years of murder mania and mutiny in the south pacific now you're probably familiar with one of the three major movies there's been more than that apparently based on the true story of a mutiny a british sips ship sailing to the south pacific in 1787. you've seen the movies called mutiny on the bounty uh the ship's orders were to collect bread bread fruit plants that the brits wanted to cultivate in the caribbean as a cheap source of food for their slaves there as i said i'm speaking of mutiny on the bounty and the most recent movie version of that saga was released in 1984 starring anthony hopkins as commander william bly and mel gibson as fletcher christian the guy who led the eventually led the mutiny uh he was the master's mate uh who uh when landing in french polynesia like many of the his his shipmates aboard that ship uh fell in love with local polynesian women and uh they didn't much like leaving there particularly when uh bly said they were gonna try to get around the cape a good horn again uh which is a notoriously rough seas um there's a mutiny and they uh uh well i'll let brandon tell you how they handled bly but basically after the mutiny uh uh fletcher christian and his gang of mutineers took their polynesian wives and some polynesian guys and found an island that was basically off most maps called pitcairn in the south pacific in french polynesia and they retired there to live a life in theory of pleasure and leisure and it's much better weather than in the uk in fact it became a bloody mess and i'm not using the term bloody in the british sense i'm talking about the literal bloody and that community of pitcairn still lasts today and if you spent a month there as my host did or excuse me as my guest did uh you'd find out what made the history of the island so bloody and you might also find out that even though it was long ago it ain't over yet anyway brandon presser was born in ottawa canada and he joins me now he's lived in all kinds of places he's in paris tokyo new york city um he's written for all kinds of magazines he's got a bachelor's from harvard and he's done a few other things in the course of the course of a rather exciting life brandon welcome to the show nice to have you here thank you so much all right we reach you today where uh i'm in new york city okay i'm sorry you can't be here in sunny california with me you're not here today in fact uh quite beautiful out here all right uh tell me how you got tell us how you got interested in mutiny on the bounty and and then we'll get into some of the uh uh the details of the history of uh not only that mutiny but also uh the pirates getting onto pitcairn island yeah absolutely um so back in the glory days of analog travel uh i used to work for a lonely planet doing guidebooks um and uh you know when you're working for the loading planet you're out in the field all the time uh you start collecting countries and uh you kind of get competitive with your colleagues and we started making lists and when you hit a hundred countries you start delving into the obscure and picarin is this wonderful piece of obscure geography uh and so all of us had always wanted to go and famously you can only get there by a cargo freighter there's no commercial conveyance um and uh the opportunity was actually given to me to be kind of one of the first tourists to go under a new tourism scheme that they were creating to try to create some new interest in the island and so i jumped at the opportunity took the cargo freighter um well do you excuse me for interrupting you fly into tahiti and then hop skip and jump yeah so uh from new york i flew new york to la and then la to tahiti uh and then i had to wait in tahiti until the freighter was ready to pick us up and then we flew to an island called hao in the tuamotu archipelago which is a bit east of tahiti and then we did another flight to an island called mongoreva and then from mongareva we boarded the freighter for three days and that's 300 miles to piccarin okay all right this is your freighter here the claymore ii absolutely how many passengers who are on it uh brandon uh well leisure um because of uh it is primarily a cargo freighter so it was absolutely full of cargo um you know the tv and the lounge had crates of eggs on top of it for example but because of maritime law uh you can only have a maximum of 12 passengers otherwise uh it has to be classified as a different kind of marine vessel uh so we were nine passengers on board six picarinos and then there were three uh three visitors actually all right so you went what what did why did you think you were going to put karen on what was your goal when you arrived my intention originally was that i wanted to write a magazine article about the experience and about the island a lot of conservation work has been done around the island to protect the reefs it is one of the most pristine places in the entire world of course because there are no humans that can get there um so that was really interesting i used to be a pro scuba diver um so i wanted to do some free diving um i wanted to just spend time in this beautiful desolation um there are no hotels uh there are no restaurants so um i wanted to see what that was like and then of course when i got there i just became obsessed with all the minutia of the history and the people and the way that these 48 people who live so disconnected from the rest of the world interact with one another and it's quite a complex little society for their only being 48 individuals and are most of these 48 people descendants of the original mutineers yes so almost all of them are um how it works when you grow up in the island is that when you reach grade nine you leave and you go to the north island of new zealand for high school and so often times they'll meet a girlfriend or boyfriend in high school or in a university afterwards or you know and then bring them back so um there are a few people that are married to descendants that have chosen to move to picarino with their spouse so it's not all inbreeding not at all no i think that would that's a huge misconception about the island i think initially it's seven generations really now since the original mutineers landed there i think for the first couple generations there was a little bit of mixing in that manner but it's actually quite uh diverse but they do but there are folks on the island who trace their genealogy right back to some of the original mutineers correct absolutely so there are no hotels so i stayed with uh two couples on the island the first couple that i stayed with they are the direct seventh generation descendants of fletcher christian himself okay yeah the christians as you would guess right and how about the second family the second family they were the warrens now the warren warren is actually not a name of one of the original mutineers um there was a lot of intermingling with uh american whalers a couple um decades later and the warren is actually an american last name um but they are actually also descendants of the christians oh and i don't want to get into this too much right now let's we'll talk about the islands in just a minute but those two families don't talk a lot do they i mean it seems like they both have a very uh pronounced stake in the island and it seems like they've both kind of created their little fiefdoms separate from one another even though 48 there's only 48 people there well and the island's only the size of central park in new york city oh my gosh um but you know these the the christians and the warrens live about a three minute walk from one another but it might as well be across the entire across an entire country i got that impression from your book let's talk a little about the mutiny there have been so many there have been so many books written uh more as you pointed out to me i thought there are only three movies you said there were a lot of movies made of it um are there some facts that we might think we know from watching maybe the latest movie that were stretched a little or were not told what what did you discover because you went back and you found letters from these people you looked at bly's log in in london i presume right yeah so basically after my trip to piccarin i was completely hooked um and i um as you'll as you'll see in the book i do another trip um and i i went to australia where a lot of the other descendants live and um i did a lot of research there in the state library of new south wales and sydney um and then did some interviews with a ton of descendants to get more stories i found uh interviews in old journals from some of the people the original people that settled pitcairn that weren't murdered um uh and so i started puzzling it all together like oral history captains logs interviews and magazines and newspapers 200 years ago um and and started to put it all together and what i quickly realized was that there are indeed five movies that have been made um they're actually mostly based on a novel a novelization of the mutiny that um paul wrote in the 1930s what really happened it was actually pretty different in my book sort of endeavors to unpack all of that and as you said you went there originally for a magazine piece when you came back and started telling a friend about the stories she said to you you got a book and in fact you do um maybe tommy can put up the book the book jacket for the far land at some point while we're talking here you can see it there it is the far land by brendan brandon presser excuse me murder mutiny murder mania and mutiny in the south pacific that doesn't hook you i don't know what it does okay so we're so we're going to focus on the on the mutiny for a little bit what what should we know about the mutiny that we might not know if we've seen one of these movies um one of the things that was discovered um more recently was that um one of the big issues with the bounty was that um it kept getting delayed the departure of the bounty for tahiti kept being delayed for a variety of bureaucratic reasons and then there were weather reasons and in one of the delays fletcher christian our main character his brother comes back from india on a ship and is basically sees his brother in a pub and explains to him how terrible the journey was and how there was a mutiny on board so the seeds for the mutiny were actually planted before the bounty even left and this is a thing that a lot of people don't even know and obliger christian were friends when they sailed off right they were um they were very friendly they knew one another um and one of the big things when the mutiny is happening is a bly actually says like you've danced my children on your knee like he's had fledgle christian over to his house for dinner he's met his daughters um but i think what it was it was sort of death by a thousand cuts bly was um he wasn't uh he wasn't evil he was petty right and so he kept insulting people over and over and over uh and at some point bly did right yeah yeah and at some point fletcher christian just cracked is essentially um what happened and when they took over the ship using arms and so on uh there were still some folks loyal to bly and fletcher christian and his allies put them in basically a rowboat i think of that small sails yeah in the middle of the south pacific and said good luck to you and i think it probably would have been a good bet at that point that these guys were going to die out there at sea right i think so so i i think there was something gentlemanly about how i'm killing them right on the spot christian wouldn't put you know he he wouldn't shoot bly uh so he did the gentlemanly thing of putting him in a cutter yeah and there were 18 men in uh the cutter there were actually four more men that wanted to go with bly but there was no room and so they actually stayed behind um and they actually kept very detailed logs of the experience so a few of those men are actually were great sources for me they did eventually by sheer luck find an island and survive and get back to england um i guess we should also say that when the mutiny got there on their assignment to collect the breadfruit they were they were met by you know bare-breasted beauties who lived there who did not necessarily have the sexual mores uh and uh and some would say hang-ups of folks and women in the uk and within a short period of time many of the crew had girlfriends slash wives including christian spencer spencer yeah um no it's it's absolutely true i think um they enjoyed themselves there they liked it they liked it a lot in the movies obviously sensationalized that and create the more of uh this euphoria eden kind of thing um the weather was actually terrible for most of their time there um it rained uh a lot um but that's not really fun to show in a movie um but uh from england they're used to rain a lot that's true this is warm rain but they they had they had a nice time i think because um the trip was so arduous to tahiti it took almost a year to get there and then they had six months on tv which was longer than any westerner had ever spent on tv before and they all started getting tattoos this is where the word tattoo is a tahitian word um and they for the first time you see uh westerners tattooing themselves um and they kind of all start becoming tahitian in a way they they find that the way of life in td is much more agreeable um than the very anglican way of life back in england and and a hard life aboard a ship in bad weather on rough seas um all right so so they're there for six months uh they really are enjoying themselves um bly seems about to be about the only happy guy that he's going home so he can get back to because he sort of he sort of strutted around in his uniform for quite a bit uh as opposed to his crewman correct on the island he did yeah i think um i think what marries well with my obsession um with pcaren was bly's obsession with his station um i think the the book in itself is sort of a meditation and obsession there everyone has something that they're obsessed with and everyone is motivated motivated by their own self-interest so bly wants to get back desperately to england because he wants a promotion oh right right and and was i correct in the intro and saying that they did sail off but as they approach the cape a good hope that sort of the guys are saying do we have to go through this again because they had to turn around when they were trying to come around the cape a good hope to get there is that what sort of started the grumbling um so they leave tahiti uh and three weeks later they have passed the cook islands i itaki and um they are still very much in the south pacific and it happens um in the middle of the night in the middle of the open sea what triggered it was i know that a lot of them missed their their wives slash girlfriends uh what i mean what triggered was bly getting crankier so so many people have covered the mutiny uh from an academic perspective and i um interviewed a lot of psychologists to try to understand the psychology of what triggered the mutiny and it's my theory grounded in evidence that bly many years earlier a decade earlier was with captain cook when he was hatcheted to death by the hawaiians um in the sandwich islands as they were called back then and he witnessed it and a very similar thing happens on an island called nomuko where they land to try to get fresh water christian is in charge of the landing party and it all goes terribly their water barrels break everything doesn't work out the locals are very hostile they don't want them there and i think it triggers some sort of memory and bly because bly was so he was convinced that had bly been in charge of the landing party with cook that cook would have not been murdered so bly really lays into christian when they get back to the ship from the mucha and he's swearing at him and he's you know really belittling him he's accusing him of being a thief and i think that's what sets everything into motion and originally christian wants to leave the ship himself in the cutter and at the last minute he makes the flip and he decides no it's bly that's going to go overboard so they set bly and his compatriots out in this small sailboat so to speak and they go back to their island where their girlfriends slash wives are and where they've been living for six months and they round them up with a couple of local men as well and they go in search of an island that that i guess christian found on a obscure map that wasn't on most maps called bitcaron and they're what they're looking for is an island so that when the english come looking for them as they know it would eventually happen they'd get hauled back to the uk and hanged right yeah so basically all of it goes down with a great fury they go back to tahiti um and they actually quickly decide to go to this other island first where there are local inhabitants called tubuai and um it's a disaster they try to build a colony there's malaria there's they're all getting sick it's muddy it's uh the crops aren't working the people don't want them there um so they abandoned the concept go back to tahiti change the cast of characters half the mutineers are like i've had enough like this is not this is awful i'm gonna stay in tahiti and wait until the british come back and i'll just deal with them and nine of the men and about a dozen women and six uh polynesian men all travel 28 people to find an island that had been incorrectly plotted on nautical charts about 30 years before and finally after about four months they finally got four months i forgot it took that long they were getting some of his crew was getting cranky they weren't there this island doesn't exist we're never going to find it by the way just as a footnote the nine guys who stayed behind um and didn't do the final leg of the trip with uh the mutineers were they ever brought to justice in england do you know they were found so bly miracle of miracles makes it all the way back to england says his ship has been taken they organize a warship to find the missing mutineers a few of them are found on tahiti they're dragged back to england six of them are found guilty of treason three are hanged wow if you've just joined us we're having a in the middle of i find a very fascinating conversation i hope you do too with uh brandon presser a journalist a journalist with a lot of uh experience who sailed out to french polynesia to go to the island of pitcairn which was the island where the mutineers for the mutant in the bounty settled to try to stay out of sight and not get hauled back to england to be punished um after that mutiny and brandon went to that island which is very hard to get to and not many people go and he actually spent a month there because they're there aren't exactly there's a shot of the island uh there aren't exactly regular shuttle buses to and from pitt garan um so we're talking about his book it's called the far land subtitled 200 years of murder mania and mutiny in the south pacific and it is a riveting read it is very thoroughly documented i mean i think the the the notes in the back of the documentation are as interesting as as brandon's prose well no your your pros is more interesting brandon than footnotes but but it's an amazing book it's a story a book he didn't intend to write he's just going to do a magazine piece and what's going on with this island that nobody goes to on pitcairn who apparently want to have tourists now but when he got there he really got involved in the story of the mutiny and the aftermath of the mutiny and so he went back to bitcaren where seven generations later there's still folks who whose lineage is from those original mutineers so you get to the island um and you are housed in in a couple's house the island uh internet electricity air conditioning what do they got um wow beautiful right it's pretty lush right it is um they're one of my favorite things and i'm sort of jumping ahead of myself but one of my favorite things while i was on the island early on was i was quite keen to just go on a hike on my own kind of explore it's hard to get lost in an island that's only the size of central park uh in new york city and uh the my homestay mom if you will um who's in her 60s uh you know when you go on a hike in a tropical destination you should bring some water you should bring a snack maybe just in case and she would give me a knife and she was like you know here for a banana if you just want to you know cut a banana from the tree for a snack this is the kind of lushness that you have on the island okay uh so talk about the amenities or lack there okay that's a lush island there there it is right there it's uh no it's beautiful um so i have been warned of uh two things there's um no internet and uh the everything runs on diesel uh on a diesel generator one generator and um at night they turn the generator off to save on fuel and they turn it back on in the morning um so it's basically on to cook meals is essentially what they use it for um you know of course there's no air conditioning or anything like that because why would you have an elaborate air conditioning unit when you don't have the power for it um but the nights are unrelentingly hot the humidity and the heat it doesn't subside in the in the night um so it was uh pretty hard to sleep and and many of the houses didn't have doors early they were always open or something were there bugs were there were there little lizards what what do they got there um you know i think that i i often talk about this uh in the book over and over it's like this kind of meditation that i have that there's this conspiracy on the island by nature to reclaim itself and turn it back into sort of this human free realm and every at every opportunity every branch like creeps through a window trying to like pull the houses into the ocean and it's just everything the nature is so intense that you have like a piece of paper that you bring with you to the island and it's it's like wilted and weathered within days um and so no house can really sustain having fresh paint or you know the doors there's no use in having a door because the hinges are all rusted and often you know uh there'd be a wind and the glass piece of glass would break how do you replace the piece of glass when there's only a freighter every three months was there indoor plumbing did they have a plumbing system or or any kind of sewage system built they actually did have plumbing and it was installed if memory starts it's in the book if memory serves it was in 2004 okay that they got plumbing all right so you're starting to get to know there actually was a tourism office that wasn't in the in the island prison it was yeah so they do have a tourist office you know for all the tourists that are going for all the um and it's in the jail for zero prisoners so uh they're making they're making good use of uh of their jail now um yeah i mean i think uh they like saw me walking in the direction of the tourist office and someone like ran in there to go man it is essentially what i think happened well well when you were there as i recall from your book there were only two tourists you and a professor was really into plants right uh he was into a astronomy so he had me that's right he was a retired astronomy professor from um new zealand and he actually had been invited to the island to take light readings of the stars at night because they were going to turn the island into a dark sky sanctuary so two tourists two visitors yes okay strangely we we really never saw each other yeah you don't pay much attention to in the book uh uh was he living in some other family's house and he was okay so how long did it take you to figure out that we weren't all kumbaya here all the families that there were tensions that there were historical almost like the plants creeping back into a house there were these tendrils going out that have gone out and formed branches that as you say nobody was killing anybody anymore well let's talk about some killing so when did when did paradise go bad how many years were they there hiding from the brits in this with their you know wives and stuff and when when did it start going sour so they arrived in 1790 and they um and fletcher christian and his um partner consort wife whatever you want to call her mautua they had a child uh almost nine months to the day after they landed which is quite interesting um and uh everything went really well for the first year uh they all uh disassembled the bounty used the timber as walls uh for their cottages they made beautiful uh garden plots uh everything everything was going pretty decently and every man had a wife um but there were like little secrets and little imbalances that were exacerbated at the end of that first year when one of the wives was uh accidentally gored um in the neck by a goat um and she died um and i i'm given a little of the drama away uh in the book but um everything really kind of descends into madness after that i mean it got bloody well you know um i kind of liken it to a real life game of uh survivor like the the tv show because um by the end when they're discovered 18 years later by accident by an american whaling vessel um only one of the men is left there is a sole survivor uh in in in that kind of idea um and he uh how many were there in the beginning nine nine and uh twelve women and i think there's one man and about three women left the the some of the details on the women is super fuzzy because um unfortunately a lot of the details about them were um not fastidiously recorded but there were definitely three i know and mostly they weren't natural deaths i gather um all of them died by murder except two women died by accident and one woman committed suicide unfortunately this takes care of my fantasy about living on some remote remote french polynesian island with all my friends wow uh and when did you start feeling the tension among people there uh when you moved into the second house or second household so there was never out any outright aggression there was always this veneer of hospitality um and i genuinely enjoyed um living with the christians i they were really sociable they were really fun we loved swapping stories every night you know in the dark with candles after the generator would go off there was always this veneer however um i felt like they were icing me out um so i would ask if anyone wanted to get lunch or i would ask if anyone wanted to go fishing or everyone on an island where there's nothing to do everyone seemed extremely busy um too busy for brandon right so it was it was more that i was being clearly iced out and it was it was actions speak louder than words essentially um but i understand i mean i understand some of the xenophobia but it was like it was a little incongruent that they wanted tourism when they clearly didn't really want tourism yeah they have a tourism office they're ready to go ready to go uh jeez i mean i i guess i mean were they hoping to make some money the tourists would come and pay to stay you know home stay there yeah it was to generate um it was to generate uh new income for the island um you know back when collecting stamp collecting was a big thing um to get a pick here and stamp was the ultimate um i bought stamps while i was there uh and um and you know they used to make a lot of money selling uh their pitcairn stamps of course stamp collecting is not super hot anymore um and so they're looking for new revenue you know they make their own honey on the island and that they send all over the world but tourism was something that they could really generate um some significant amount of money from so when you left so that was you left a couple years ago right uh the trip yeah yeah the trip the trip was actually uh four years ago this week and do you hear anything from folks there how things are going lately um i haven't stayed in touch with uh the families um i wanted to write the book uh and kind of have the experience be a bottle experience i didn't want new experiences with the families to taint the something that felt really pure and isolated um i have talked uh with people uh tangentially related to the island it was it's we could say it's the only country in the world that's not had coveted we can we can say that well that's something yeah they're closed to the world um you can't go and the cargo freighter takes two weeks to go from new zealand it doesn't stop to pick up passengers and that's a perfect quarantine period is uh do they i mean do they have satellite phones yet do they have any internet with an electric generator and satellite service perhaps so that was the most surprising thing to me is on the freighter right before mine they got the tools needed to um put in wi-fi um and when i arrived i was shocked that they had all been gifted smart phones for the first time uh three months earlier and of course why do you need a smartphone to talk to people on the island when you have radios or you know you could just walk over to someone's house so they use their smartphones as paperweights because it's quite a windy island did they ever hook it up while you were there no they did i actually got to use the um the wi-fi what's really funny is um the father the steve christian the my home state dad would check the weather every day on facebook um which was really confusing because when you're in the most remote place in the world you can see weather coming three days away uh why are you checking facebook for a weather station that's not even on your island it was really interesting oh my gosh uh when you when you when you met some of the other descendants in australia where you said many of them settled did they think the pitcairn relatives were were nuts to live there um they definitely you know gosh it's it's like it's nuanced um they think they're a bit strange i presume there's both this like reverence and fear of pitcairn um where uh i i earned so much cred with these individuals when i wanted to interview them um you know they were like well prove that you're you know that you have pick caron chops and i was like well i've been there and they were like wow we haven't even been there and we're descendants um so they and that really kind of opened the doors uh for me um when i was chatting with people in australia um but a lot of them don't want to go i can understand do they do the pitcairn folks have i mean even before internet do they have vhs tapes or dvds or anything to play movies or any media did they know is that shortwave radio maybe do they know what was going on in the world did they care they uh a lot of them are ham radio uh okay enthusiasts and they used to do um you know amateur kind of doing signals and recording yeah i bet for ham radio enthusiasts elsewhere in the world just like getting a pitcairn stamp in those days because i know they record who they reach out i'm sure getting somebody in pitcairn was was a coup for you for your log right it was it was a jackpot and actually a few of them would make a little business of sending them a calling card we get to pay for it oh got it i see oh my gosh would you go back um that's a really good question i i would um i think the book is complicated um and i think everyone on the island will have different feelings about it um so i don't know if i would be welcome tommy do we have any other pictures of the island that brandon could speak to maybe a couple of the structures there i i recall what is that oh that's a graveyard huh this is uh the grave of john adams the soul survivor if you will the final a mutineer um who uh changed his name to john adams to hide his true identity and uh i'm sorry we're gonna have to read the whole book to find out which of the nine mutineers was john adams uh-huh okay what else we got any anything else tommy so this is in the central plaza uh in adam's town the you know it's not quite a town but it's where everyone lives and this is basically everyone who lives on the island who's gathered together for dinner potlucks dinners are really popular when it's someone's birthday uh or if uh you know uh the french military the french navy rather kim callings they organized a welcome dinner for them that kind of thing you think there's like once every week or once a month um i was told that they used to do them a lot more often than people kind of got sick of it oh my god and the ship brings in food from other places and so on uh once a month so it's they're not living off the island obviously um yeah every three months they have a lot of non-perishables but there's money there's plenty of fish plenty of fruit um i ate really well to be to be totally honest okay um i don't know if we have any what do we got oh here's there's a sign they're not hiding from the brits anymore huh this is right when you arrive uh this is um you know the the freighter can't dock the water is just too choppy uh so a long boat actually goes out and picks you up a wooden boat and this is where the wooden boat you can see kind of it's a garage there and the boat is in the garage and then up at the top is lookout point where they used to look for uh a threat of ships all the way up top there that real that peaky thing there yeah and they would look for they were on they were on guard for british ships right they were yeah uh they were that's another facet of the obsession is uh once they landed christian was completely obsessed with searching the horizon for warships and the brits never never caught the bitcoin guys did they they never did it was a blemish on their record they could never find them um but i've looked over old captain's log and actually the warship that was sent to find them past the island in the middle of the night and didn't know it ah interesting and right lights out anyway because there was no electricity well no electricity back in those days anyway they would snuff their fires always yeah it's just a fascinating story brandon and you do it justice um i really appreciate you joining us today i think it's a great story the book again is called the far land subtitled 200 years of murder mania and mutiny in the south pacific so it's the story of the mutant in the bounty that might be a little different than the movies you saw but trust me it's no less dramatic and then the fascinating thing is what happened what happened to those guys who settled on hid out on pitcairn island so the brits wouldn't find them and hang them back home and they're still there have 48 of them random 48 people in there today yeah we'll be 49 for all you know you haven't checked with them for four years though right that's true it could be a population boom well brandon thank you for writing the book thank you so much for joining me to joining all of us today it's a fascinating story thanks thank you so much for having me okay we'll say goodbye to brandon thank you i'm rudy maxa um every two weeks by the way on thursdays i send out an email which is a travel newsletter which will tell you about my upcoming guest two weeks hence but uh mainly i put in information you might need to know as a traveler about what countries are changing rules regarding covet or whatever you know new routes that might have discount fares maybe a frequent flyer tip uh new luxury hotel opening somewhere or a hotel opening that's of interest maybe my three favorite restaurants in paris or l.a or whatever at any rate it's very gossipy i am by training a washington post reporter first uh 20 years of my life i was a political scandal monger in washington dc as a reporter so i hope i bring that sensibilities when i'm writing about travel writing uh you can subscribe for free just go to maxitours.com newsletter maxitours.com newsletter and you will uh just put in your first name last name and email i'm not going to sell it to anybody i'm not going to sell you tours although if you want to take a look at maxi tours just go to maxitours.com we have a couple openings left on an italy tour this summer late this summer i think and uh a few openings on our christmas market tours but um we've actually sold out a couple tours so anyway that's at maxitours.com but to get the newsletter go to maxxatours.com newsletter and sign up lovely to have you uh here with me today and i hope you enjoyed my interview with brandon presser by the way i should have said this at the beginning this was recorded on the 16th of march it's going to go live on the 17th of march of 2022. so when we refer to covet it's still much on people's minds so travel has started to resume quite a bit so 16th of march 2022 is when this interview was recorded keep that in mind for time references that we may have made during the interview meanwhile take care travel safely see you in a couple weeks

Channel: Rudy Maxa's World

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Id: DrHGUl7Sgro

Length: 40min 23sec (2423 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 17 2022