Good Afternoon Everyone, and welcome
to the Institute of Politics webinar with Admiral William McRaven. I am Lieutenant
Commander Ryan Hall, an Active Duty Seal in the Navy in my first year of the full time
MBA program at the Booth School of Business. It's such a privilege and treat to have the
opportunity to introduce our guest today. Admiral McRaven is an absolute legend
in the Special Operations community and the broader national defensive prize. He's
an accomplished author, academic administrator, and public commentator and thinker. In short,
he's a prolific public servant who has left a legacy that will endure through history. His
military service spanned an incredible 37 years. He commissioned as an Ensign in the Navy in 1977.
After graduating from the University of Texas, Ensign McRaven completed SEAL training the
following year, launching a career in which he would lead in command SEALs and personnel from
all services at quite literally every level, always with leadership defined by character,
critical thought, and communication. His most notable command tours include the
Joint Special Operations Command and finally, US Special Operations Command: the unified
combatant command that oversees all Special Operations and the Department of Defense. It's
an organization of roughly 70,000 people. During his incredible career, Admiral McRaven led
multiple historic operations, including the capture of Saddam Hussein, the rescue of the
Merchant Mariner Captain Richard Phillips, and most notably, he was the architect
and commander of Operation Neptune Spear, the operation to capture or kill Osama bin Laden
in 2011. Coincidentally, that was also the year he assumed the title of The Bullfrog: the recognition
as the longest serving SEAL in the force. I'll leave it to the Admiral to let us know which
one he's more proud of. Following his retirement in 2014, Admiral McRaven was selected to lead
the University of Texas System as Chancellor, a position that he held for three years before
stepping down in 2018. As an author, he has multiple books and editorial pieces published --
he literally wrote the book on special operations. His 1993 thesis, from the Naval Postgraduate
School on the tenets of special operations is orthodoxy for every Special Operations leader.
More recently, he's published 'Sea Stories', a memoir of his life in special ops, as well
as 'Make Your Bed,' a collection of wisdom and anecdotes -- anecdotes that spun off of his
viral 2014 commencement address at the University of Texas, used by millions online. This makes him
the only person in history as famous for making this bed as for getting the world's most wanted
man. Finally, his editorials have been published in the New York Times, The Washington Post, and
the Wall Street Journal. Our moderator today is The Institute of Politics' Founding
Director, former Senior Strategist and Advisor to President Obama, and the University of
Chicago's own Mr. David Axelrod. Please help me in welcoming these two outstanding public
servants today. Gentlemen, thank you, and welcome. Ryan, thank you. And thank you for your service.
As I told you before we started this -- and Admiral McRaven, I'm sure can appreciate this --
One of the greatest honors that I had in working for the President was to travel the world with him
and meet with Service Members around the world, sometimes in places of great peril. And it
was really inspiring. And you, Ryan inspire us. So thank you for that, and your great words.
Admiral, great to see you again. We are two days after Veterans Day, and that was the occasion
for for this event. There are plenty of public issues right now that are current that
I want to ask you about. But I want to defer that for a moment, and just talk
about service itself. And I want to start by talking about how you came about service,
because you came by naturally -- you grew up in a family of service. Tell me about your
dad, who was quite an interesting person. Yeah, First, David, thanks for extending the invitation
to join you here today. This is terrific. I certainly enjoy spending time with you and the
students at the IOP. So yeah, you're right -- I kind of came by it naturally. My father was a
World War Two fighter pilot, flew Spitfires, actually, which was a British airplane,
because at the time when we entered the war, the Americans didn't have a plane that
could take on the German Messerschmitt. So the Brits loaned us Spitfires, and dad
flew that for about two years during the War. But my grandfather had also served in World
War One, and he served in World War Two: he was an Army Surgeon. So I remember my dad
-- kind of later in life as I was getting ready to join the service -- he said, "You know, I
remember what what got me in the service. It was, when I was a young boy, I saw the soldiers
heading off to France and World War One, board the trains in his small town." And he said,
"there was such a sense of pride. There was such a sense of duty and patriotism, that it was really
infectious." And that is really -- in addition to obviously watching his father -- that really
kind of spurred him to join the military. And then I grew up as an Air Force Brat and, of course,
loved my time in in the military families, and just seeing the remarkable dedication of not
only the military members, but their families. How does an Air Force brat
end up in the Navy SEALs.? Well, good question. So I had thought
about flying. And and my dad, having been a fighter pilot, was kind of nudging me
in that direction. But, interestingly enough, I think it was close to my senior year in high
school, when my sister was dating an Army Green Beret. And of course, this was after the movie
with John Wayne had come out: "The Green Berets." And I had this fascination with the Green Berets.
Well, this young Army Captain came to pick her up for a date, and she was, as usual kind of late. So
I was entertaining the young Captain. And he said, you know, "What are you getting ready to do?"
And I said, "Well, you know, I think I'm going to join the Navy. I've got a scholarship ROTC
scholarship." And he said, "well, then you better become a Navy SEAL." You know, back then, this was
1973. I had never heard of Navy SEALs, frankly, nobody had heard of Navy SEALs back at that point
in time. But here you had an Army Green Beret telling me to be a Navy SEAL. And that really is
kind of what kind of headed me in that trajectory. And you spent 37 years in the SEALs, you can
explain the 'Bullfrog' title. And Special Operations became more and more significant
over time, and you literally wrote the book on it: why has special operations become
such an important part of defense? Well, so, when you look back over the modern
day history of special operations: of course, we had a little bit of a heyday
during World War Two -- you saw these remarkable operations done by all the services,
including US forces, under both the OSS -- which was the predecessor to the CIA -- and then of
course, we had Navy Frogmen during World War Two, and we had Army Special Operations. And then after
World War Two, it kind of waned a little bit, picked up a little bit in Korea. But then
in Vietnam, the Navy SEALs came about and they were born from the underwater demolition
teams. And they really earned this remarkable reputation fighting the insurgency in Vietnam,
but then again, after Vietnam -- and this tends to happen after major wars -- the reliance or
the expectation that we're going to need special operations, again, kind of declines, which it did.
And then when we had the disaster at Desert One, the country did kind of a reassessment of, "Do we
really need special operations?" And the answer was, "of course, we need them -- and now we
need to professionalize them." And Congress is the one that put in place the US Special
Operations Command. And then we really began to institutionalize/professionalize Special
Operations. And by the time 9/11 came along, frankly, we were bar none the finest Special
Operations force in the world. Now the question becomes, "why do you need them?" I'm always quick
to point out to folks, look, "special operations have a unique niche." They're not going to stop
the North Koreans from coming south, they're not going to be able to keep the Straits of Hormuz
open, they're not going to be able to stop the Chinese from invading Taiwan. But the things we
do, we do exceedingly well; we are very surgical, we can get into a country, work with allies
in a way that sometimes larger battalions can't. And then of course, you saw after 9/11,
the hunt for terrorists, the insurgent fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. Really, those
were kind of right in our wheelhouse. So, the force has grown tremendously over the last
20 years, and I thinkit has done a remarkable job. Let me ask you about the military, generally. We
tend to draw from a rather small pool of Americans right now, there's no draft. When your dad
enlisted, all of America was in that war, both the mostly men who were fighting, and everyone else
who was pitching in in some other way. You know, a student wrote to me as I was preparing for this
and asked me to ask you about why there isn't more diversity in the upper echelons of the military?
And does that have to do with disparities in the American education system? That's one
question. And another is just generally, what does it mean for the country? That such a
small pool of people carry such a large burden? You know, there's a lot to unpack in
that question. So let me kind of hit the diversity issue first. You know, I think we are
continuing to make progress in terms of diversity in the United States military. But, as you
know, we were a segregated military until about 1947/1948: when Truman initiated the
integration. And, then you began to see the rise of African Americans in terms
of more prominent positions. But, you still had the challenges of the Civil Rights
Era and Jim Crow. And, when I came in, in 1977, there was a lot of racial tension in the military.
I think it was probably 1962 when the actual term 'affirmative action' came about, but I didn't
really see it until the 80s, but, sometimes when you would sit on promotion boards, the military
understood: we needed to increase our diversity. So we really had a very aggressive Affirmative
Action Program. And when an officers record would come up, it would say, minority, or
female, and we had a quota. And at first, there was a little bit of a reluctance to
approach it this way. But what we found was, it's not that we didn't have great talent in the
diverse pool, but it was that we weren't giving them the opportunity. So, we were able to kind
of 'prime the pot' by putting great and talented people in positions of responsibility. Then, after
a while, we realized we no longer needed to kind of single out the minorities -- because we had
built a deep bench, they were beginning to rise in prominence, and we saw the great talent in
both the minorities and the female population. And in my career, of course, I've been blessed
to work for Colin Powell and Lloyd Austin and Fig Newton. And I worked with Michelle Howard,
the first black female four star in the Navy. So you are beginning to see a recognition. And
I think you've seen it for a while. But it is improving. But, we always have to make greater
strides, we have to continue to make sure we are promoting the right people: you see CQ Brown
running the Air Force now. And always, when I'm asked this question about CQ Brown, the first
African American Chief of Staff of the Air Force, I tell people very quickly, "look, if you think CQ
Brown was chosen because he was African American, you don't know CQ Brown: he was chosen
because he was the best person for the job." He happens to be African American. And
he's going to be a great role model for the kids in both the Air Force, Army, Navy and
Marine Corps. But he was chosen because he's the best person for the job. And we just
need to continue that, and march forward. But you do have this disparate -- at the rank
and file level, you've got large minority representation. And, you know, it, it relates
to this quite a bit to a larger point, which is, I always felt like service during World War Two
created a kind of commonality among Americans of different backgrounds. And I'm sure you found that
you served with people of different backgrounds, and it broadened you this ethic of
service, and the value of service. How do we recapture that? How do we, because
we live in such a polarized time, between rural and urban and different communities in our
country? How do we through service attack that? Well, I, to your point, David, you know, you see
the young men and women coming into the service. And you know, you may get a white kid from the
south and a black kid from Chicago. And once they find themselves in the same squad in the same
company in the same Platoon, all of a sudden, those differences begin to kind of fall away, and
they realize that they've got a lot more in common than they then they do apart, and that their
differences don't matter when they are focused on a particular mission or an objective. That is
the great thing about the service. That has always been the great thing about the service.
You're right -- What we tend to find today is the demographics of the service continue to be
more in the south than in the north. They seem to be more middle class than they are upper
class. But, I think that this serves us well; when you find these young kids that come in,
they serve their time in the military, and a lot of them, of course, get out and they go become
great citizens of the United States. And you see many of them today serving in Congress. So, we've
got to continue to encourage men and women to join the service. I would like to see a National
Service Program, whereby it's not just about, you know, the service in the military,
but how do we create something like a National Service Academy, where men and women
(much like the Naval Academy or West Point or the Air Force Academy), you know, they are selected by
their Congressman, they come to a service Academy for four years. And then they join a National
Service Corps and they have a career on this. The difference is, the focus is domestically. So
we're going to teach people to be civil engineers, we're going to teach them to be
teachers, we're going to teach them skills that are going to help the country and
then we assign them places where, you know, in Flint, Michigan, can they improve the water
quality? So I do think national service is is important. But until that happens, we just need to
encourage young men and women to continue to join. I think that will absolutely help the polarization
that you see today. At least that is my hope. You know, another question that came my way, which
I thought was really good was "What is the one thing that Admiral McRaven wishes his younger self
would have known before going into this field?" Yeah, I think the answer is "everything's gonna
be okay!" I know that sounds simple. But you know, when you're a young Ensign, and you're trying
to do the best job you can, or when you're a young enlisted man or woman, you're trying to
do the best job you can, and challenges get in your way all of a sudden, you know, they become
the most important thing in your life, and you're worried about them constantly, when in fact, they
may not be all that critical. You just do the best job you can. When I look back on 37 years, and I
think about the times I sweated things, I think that's good: You have to take you have to take
your obligations seriously. But, I wish I would have been a little bit more relaxed, and realize
that you work hard, you work through things, uour friends and your colleagues will help you through
the tough times, and you're going to be alright. Well, when you think back on those 37 years,
I'm sure you were inspired by people who served under you, people who led you. But, is
there is there one person who you think back on and say, 'this person embodied what
I think is best about about service?' And I'll tell you, I have an awful lot of them.
The one thing that describe the people that are in leadership positions: What inspires you every
day are the men and women that work for you. The fact of the matter is -- and particularly
during, you know, after 9/11, the young men and women that I saw, who raised their hand after
9/11 and said, 'I'm going to volunteer to go to war.' They all knew what they were signing
up for, those of us that came in before 9/11, it was just a continuation -- but that
generation that raised their hand, and the thing I enjoyed the most was spending time with
these young men and women, you hear their story. You know, some of them are married with a couple
of kids at home, their E-5s making a small salary, and you see their sacrifice, you see their sense
of commitment. And man, I'm telling you that inspires the leaders to do the right thing. Now,
I've been fortunate in my career, I've worked for just remarkable men and women. You know, we talk
about Colin Powell, I worked for Condi Rice. You know, I have worked for presidents
Bush 43, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama. But I think back on the senior enlisted that I had
a chance to spend time with: my Command Sergeant Major Chris Barris, a great Army Green Beret
and special operations, noncommissioned officer, one of the smartest guys that I ever spent time
with. He was my right hand man. I didn't make any difficult decisions without conferring with my
Sergeant Major. When I was in the Navy, I had a great master chief named Steve Chamberlin, along
the same mold: incredibly disciplined, remarkable enlisted men. So, there's inspiration everywhere
and you don't have to look very hard to find it. What was the hardest day you had in your 37 years. Yeah, I don't know if I can single out
a day, because you have a lot of you have a lot of tough days, particularly in
combat. Unfortunately, after 9/11, and in the course of my six years in and out of Iraq and
Afghanistan, I lost a lot of great men and women. That is always hard. It's hard because they
were very young. They were very committed to what they were doing. You grieve for their
families. And frankly, it's a burden that I'm not sure you ever completely get over
nor should you get over. There were a lot of hard days. And, I don't know that they ever get
easier, as I said, and they probably shouldn't. What about the proudest day? What is the day
that you look back at and say, 'Wow, that was that was it. That was the that was really,
really extraordinary to be a part of.' Yeah, you know, a lot of people would probably say
that I would jump to the bin Laden raid. But that would not be my first thought. I was incredibly
proud of the men that went on the mission to get bin Laden. They were risking their lives. It
was a remarkable mission, and certainly brought justice to bin Laden. But, when I think back
on the number of missions, and we did 1000s of missions, from the time I was the deputy commander
of JSOC, and the commander of JSOC, 1000s of them, and the ones that I was always most proud of
was when we could rescue an American. And we did a lot of hostage rescues. And the thing about
it was, we weren't rescuing prominent people. We were rescuing contractors, we were rescuing
journalists, we were rescuing, people that we knew we had an obligation as American soldiers
to rescue Americans. And when you save someone's life, and you realize that you have impacted
them, their children, their children's children, because they are alive today, because of what you
and your men did. That's pretty damn rewarding. You've also been called upon, and
you've called on others to take life. And there has to be some psychic cost of that
-- there has to be some impact of that. And you've been close in on a lot of action over the
course of those 37 years. How do you process that? Yeah, first, you know, you have to recognize your
obligation as a commander. So your obligation as a commander, first and foremost, is the
protection of the men and women under your command. So you know, we understand that from the
rules of engagement standpoint, from the law of armed conflict, you have the authority to protect
yourself, and you have the obligation to protect others. So whenever we were doing a mission, that
required, you know, striking a target, killing the enemy, you really do have to go through your
mind. Because you've got to live with it. And if you make that mistake, you're going to live
with the civilians that you inadvertently killed. You say, 'am I doing this to protect American
soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, civilians?' And if you can, in your own mind, make
that argument, and if you know that your decision is moral, legal and ethical, then
you can do that. Now, I wasn't always right. And we made mistakes. And innocent men and women
died. It is the horror of war. And once again, you have to live with that burden. And, let me
tell you, there are times at night when those dark memories come up. And you say, 'what could
I have done better? What mistakes did I make? And how could I have corrected them?'
And then you have to press on. I mean, one thing I used to tell the young officers is,
'you're going to make bad decisions periodically. But you can't be afraid to make the next tough
decision.' Because, if you are afraid to make the next tough decision, then you're not the
leader that the men and women need you to be, because every leader is going to make
mistakes. You know, learn from your mistakes, be prepared to make the next tough decision,
because that could save more men and women. You were at the NSA during that critical
period in Washington, at the beginning of the war in Iraq and after 9/11. A lot has been
written and a lot has been discussed about the impact of that decision to go to Iraq.
And you know, we still have troops there. We have troops in Afghanistan. What has the impact
been on the country of this prolonged struggle for which there really isn't a parallel? I mean,
Vietnam went on for quite a while, but we're, you know, two decades, almost two decades in now. Yeah, great question. You know, maybe September
of 2010, I was in Baghdad, and the decision had been made to pull US forces out of Iraq
at the beginning of 2011. And I was down talking to a squadron of SEALs. And there
was a SEAL Senior Chief Petty Officer, who was a little upset.
And at one point in time he said, 'Hey Admiral, WTF? You know, we are going
out on missions every night, risking our lives. And we're pulling out of here in four months --
why are we continuing to go on these missions?' And the missions at the time were to try to stop
this network of suicide bombers that was coming in to Baghdad to hit the markets and those sort of
things. And it was a great question. And the only answer I could give the Senior Chief was, 'look,
we came here, we have a responsibility. And, let me tell you something, you have no
idea about how your missions can change the outcome of the war history. So, if you
stop a suicide bomber from blowing up a market in Baghdad today, will there have been a young
man or woman in that market that was going to find the cure for cancer ... that was going
to be the Prime Minister of Iraq in 20 years, that was going to do something great? You just
don't know -- so you have to do your job.' From the military standpoint, we have to do
our job. Now, that's not to say you don't sit around and say, 'what if? Why are we doing this?'
That's not to say you can't, in your own mind, question the policy -- you should. And the senior
officers certainly have an obligation to raise policy issues with the Secretary of Defense.
But, more times than not, you just have to be satisfied with doing your job. Now, let me take
it a little bit broader. I was with President Bush last year, so a year and a half ago, and
somebody asked him the question about his legacy, and in particular Iraq, and he said something
that I thought was very thoughtful. He said, 'you know, they're still writing books about
George Washington' -- not making the implication that he was George Washington -- but he said,
'you know, people will assess my legacy for, you know, millennia to come.' He said, 'so it
is a little bit hard at this point in time, not very far removed from Iraq, to say that it
was the right decision or the wrong decision.' And I had to think about that. I always, in
my mind, questioned whether it was the right decision. But I realized, as a leader, I had
to get out and lead my troops to do America's business. But having said that, I realized that,
you know, history will tell whether or not taking down Saddam Hussein, trying to institute some
form of democracy in Iraq, was worth the blood and the treasure that we and the Iraqis gave.
And I think the jury may still be out on that. You know, you mentioned him and the
other presidents you worked for, talk to me about the leadership
lessons you learned from each of them. It's interesting, and you well know, David,
having been in there many times, but you know, when you sit in the Situation Room, and you have
an opportunity to really observe up close how the President of the United States deals with his
senior staff, what I guess I was surprised by was the similarities, actually, between George
W. Bush and Barack Obama in terms of how they dealt with their staff. And what I
found with both Bush and Obama was they listened, they would listen to their staff, they were happy
to have members of their staff disagree. And then, they would take that input, go off and make a
decision. And I think that was very important, even though as you know, their personalities are
much different. President Obama much more subdued, although, as you know, better than most, he has
a great sense of humor, and a great personality. Sometimes it didn't come forward, publicly. And
of course, President Bush much more outgoing from a public standpoint. But I would offer also
very thoughtful, kind of behind the scenes. So, what both of these leaders understood was,
'Listen. Listen to the subject matter experts, take in the information, and then make the
best decision and best judgment you can.' That is kind of the fundamentals of leadership,
I think in any role any leader would have. And I said I was going to ask you
about some of the current events, and you know, when I first approached you about
coming and speaking, you were reluctant because you had been you would criticize President
Trump. You didn't want to get drawn into that. It is unusual for military and retired
military to be as outspoken as you have been. Was that a hard decision for you? And what
kind of feedback did you get from your peers? Well, it actually was not a hard decision. I
thought about it, but it wasn't a hard decision. And I'll walk you through the timeline. But you
know, one of the things I have told folks, is, you know, when I am criticized, as a senior
leader having spoken out against the President, I always tell people, well, that's fair
criticism, you know, we have this unwritten rule that as a retired senior officer, you're not
supposed to speak badly about the president. And in general, I think that's a good rule. But
I also realize that for myself, I had to wake up, and look myself in the mirror and say, 'am I doing
what I think is right?' And all of this started when I was the Chancellor of the University
of Texas, and the President came out and said, 'the press was the enemy of the American people.'
And I said, 'You know, I fought the enemy of the American people -- and it's not the press.'
I've been raked over the coals by the press, I understand how challenging it can be. But
at the end of the day, to me, the press, the First Amendment is maybe the
single most important thing we have as part of our Constitution. And for the President
of the United States to attack the American press, as I said, was the greatest threat to democracy
in my lifetime. And I stand by those words, that, of course, began a number of times when I felt
it was appropriate to speak out. I tried not to do it, you know, just every time I was offended by
something, the President said -- I wanted to make sure that if I was going to use my voice, and if I
was going to have to suffer the slings and arrows, I wanted to make sure that I was, at least in
my own mind, on solid ground. But, but I've also told folks, look, if you're in the military, if
you are a uniformed military person, you cannot speak out against the Commander in Chief -- not
your place. And for those of us that are retired and speak out, the criticism is fair -- we've
just got to be able to deal with criticism. What is the impact of this President -- What has
the impact been on the military and on the morale of the military? He's involved the
military in ways that are unusual, unique, really -- we have an apolitical military.
And now we're in this period where he, he has lost this race. He's fired the
leadership of the Pentagon, he's put some very strong ideologues into those positions, including
a former general who is Islamophobic and called President Obama a terrorist leader and so on.
How does this filter down to people in uniform? Yeah, well, I certainly wouldn't want to speak
for, you know, the men and women in uniform in terms of the the broad swath of us,
because I do think that there is this mix of support for President Trump. There are
some folks out there that absolutely believe he is doing the right thing. He is investing more in
military hardware. And, there is a lot of truth to that. He has obviously continued the pursuit
of ISIS in Syria. So he's done some things that I know some of the rank and file believe to be,
you know, good and appropriate things. Conversely, I know a lot of people on the other side that who
think that he has dramatically affected morale by intervening particularly on some high
profile cases where the military was not actually able to adjudicate the case. Now, the the
issue going on right now about, you know, firing Mark Esper, and Joe Kernan, and then the senior
leadership within the Department of Defense. The issue there, of course, as you know, is about this
transition. Yeah, I was telling, I was telling somebody the other day when I was the commander
of the Joint Special Operations force in Iraq, and I don't know the exact days, but you
know, I would have to brief President Bush on the missions, we were getting ready to
do that were outside Iraq and Afghanistan. And there were a lot of those. And I remember
one day I am briefing from Iraq to the Situation Room. They're in the White House, and
it's President Bush, and it's his team. And then several days later, you know,
I turn on the video teleconference, and up pops a new President and a new
team with the exception of Bob Gates. That is the way a transition is supposed to work.
And again, the days that separated my brief to Bush and Obama, I don't know the exact one, the
exact timeframe, but it wasn't very far apart. And the reason the Obama administration was able
to come in and get up to speed very quickly, is because President Bush had given President Obama
and his team a great transition, a great turnover. You really have to have that if you're going to be
you know, focused on national security. So I think the concern I'm seeing from some of my colleagues
now is by kind of, you know, beheading the senior leadership of the military and putting in folks
that are certainly, in my opinion, not qualified to do the job at this point. Not necessarily all
of them bad guys. But certainly, I would say, not fully qualified to do the job. That's just
gonna make it tough. And if we if we're not allowing the president elect and his team to
do the transition, it puts us at greater risk. I agree. Let's, go to some questions from
students. And let's start with Seth, a veteran scholar sergeant in the Marine
Corps, class of 2024. Seth, are you here? I am here. Thank you. Good afternoon, sir.
Like Mr. Axelrod said my name is Seth. I'm one of the student veterans here on
campus. I'm currently in Hyde Park right now. When I was a Marine, I had the
reading list to kind of look to to guide me when it comes to finding the right
books to be reading. And I'm curious what books you would suggest for young leaders like me
to broaden the horizon on American history and leadership in general? Yeah, great
questions. So thanks. I'll put them into a couple of categories. You know, there's a
fiction book out there called 'Once an Eagle'. And it is by Anton Meyer, kind of a classic book,
for most of the West Pointers. It's a great novel about a leader that starts off as a young enlisted
troop in World War One, goes to World War Two, and then something that kind of is similar to Vietnam.
But it is also this remarkable novel about leadership and the contrast between his style of
leadership, which is exemplary, and then kind of the careerist, who is a good leader, a good combat
leader, but not good at taking care of the men and women under his command. So that from a novel
standpoint is good. One of my favorite books, although is 'All Quiet on the Western Front,' you
know, small book, and the reason I like 'All Quiet on the Western Front,' is it is about a German
soldier on the Western Front during World War One. Why is that important? Because, Seth, if you read
that book, and you put your name in for his name, you would have the exact same experiences. I mean,
you would recognize everything this German soldier is going through. And why is that important?
Because sometimes you have to recognize that the enemy, you can't always dehumanize the enemy.
They are people too, and you have to recognize they are motivated in ways that might be similar
to how you're motivated. So I kind of think of those two books. But of course, you can see the
library behind me, I would say 800 of the 1000 or so books behind me are on everything from military
strategy to special operations. You can't go wrong with Clausewitz's 'On War'. And understanding
the great strategists out there as well. Seth, thanks for your service. And for your
question. And let me just say don't forget 'Make Your Bed: Little Things That Can
Change Your Life and Maybe The World' and 'Sea Stories: My Life in Special
Operations.' Two great books. Honestly, we did a wonderful podcast together -- so
I had to bone up for those and I so enjoyed both of them. And I highly recommend it -- a
lot of leadership lessons in both those books. Let's see -- we have Robert, class of 2023.
Robert, All right. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is John Robbins. I'm currently
a second year in the college and I'm spending the quarter in Hyde Park
and I'm enrolled in Air Force ROTC. Is there any advice you would give for
people in ROTC or people considering joining the military after college
that want to make a career out of it? Yeah, well, I also went through the ROTC
program, I went through Naval ROTC at the University of Texas and my son went
through Air Force ROTC at Clemson. So the ROTC program is phenomenal because
of course, you get the opportunity to, you know, get a good military education as
well as a more liberal education. at the school you're going to. The one thing I would
want to offer you when you get into ROTC is, it's important always in any organization to learn
the basics. And that's what ROTC does for you. You know, little things like you know, learn how
to salute, learn how to wear your uniform, learn the ranks. You can't be a good leader unless
you understand the basics of whatever organization you're going into first. So your ROTC time will
give you that opportunity. It will probably also give you the opportunity to travel a little bit.
Take the time to talk to the enlisted men and women in the ROTC unit. Take the time to talk to
the officers, learn about their careers, and take those four years as you would at any college to
absorb as much about the organization as you can that way when you become a Second Lieutenant,
you'll be prepared to go out and do your job. Thanks, Robert. And best of luck to you. Kevin, a
graduate student at the Graham School. Biomedical Informatics, and an Army veteran who
served in Iraq. Kevin, where are you? Thank you for taking the time
Admiral, we really appreciate it. My question is, how can we all help
repair America's reputation post 45? Also, how do we communicate with people that refuse
or unable to believe or understand the truth? There are great questions. Well, one, I think
internationally, on January 20, at 12:01, we are going to find that a lot of the problems we've
had internationally will quickly become resolved. People, you know, from NATO, to the Austrian
nations, to Africa: they want American leadership, they are begging for American leadership. And so
as soon as President Biden comes in, you know, he is not a an isolationist, he is going to value
the relationships that we have with NATO, he is going to value our relationships with our allies
and partners. And they will recognize that on day one. So that's not to say that we don't have some
bridges, we need to rebuild a little bit. But I think instead of having to rebuild the bridge,
all in one direction, we're going to find people coming into the middle, because they want us to
be part of their international security realm. In terms of, kind of how do you deal with with
friends and family, which I have a lot of, that aren't necessarily supportive of my
political position, you have to listen, and you have to not be too righteous. You know, it
is easy sometimes to think that, oh, my goodness, why don't they understand? Why can't they see
what I see? Well, I would say you might want to check your pride at the door a little bit, check
your sense of righteousness just a little bit. And listen. And that may not sway them. And
it probably won't sway you, but I think they will be a lot more receptive, if they think
you're prepared to listen to them, and be thoughtful about their positions. And then maybe
you can begin to build, you know, bridges a little bit easier. But if you come in and you already got
your armor on and you're ready to go for a fight, that's not gonna help anybody. And I don't
think you're getting much traction with that. Thank you, Kevin. Admiral, let me follow up on
on these questions. And you speak about what will happen the day that President Biden takes
the oath of office in terms of how the world views us and how we view the world. What about
you yourself? Would you consider playing a role in some form or fashion in
the next administration? You know, David, I've always said that, you
know, I'm not into politics, but like you, I like policy. And if the opportunity to
work in a policy environment and to provide policy guidance were available, then
absolutely. I think that's again, that is in my wheelhouse. It's something I enjoy doing.
So if offered, I would absolutely consider it. What would be the most important advice that
you would give the president as he takes office? You know, the one thing I
think is, back to the previous question, you know, almost 73 million people
voted for Donald Trump. So the President is, if he is going to pull the country together, I
think he is going to have to take a hard look at, you know, what were some of their concerns,
and is there a way to kind of bridge that gap? Recognizing that he is going to be a president
for all Americans. And if you're going to be a president for all Americans, you're going to have
to do what I think Joe Biden has done exceedingly well over the years, which is, you know, extend
his hand across the aisle, see where we can get some compromise, and then move forward
together. Now you're not always going to be able to compromise. There are going to be some folks
that are entrenched. But that is something he does very well, we're going to need that when you
have almost 73 million people, there's probably something in there that is a value that he must
consider if he's going to be the president. And in terms of national security, what do
you see as the greatest threats that we face? We've seen the power for very little investment of
cyber tactics and cyber attacks. And democracies are particularly vulnerable to that. But
so is the infrastructure of countries. Where do you see the greatest
threats in this era? Yeah, I think the greatest threat to national security is K-12 Education. And the reason I say
that is because, if we are not growing the next generation of national security leaders,
if we're not teaching kids in and starting in elementary school and junior high and high school,
if we're not teaching them, giving them a liberal, a classic liberal education, where they have
to think critically, where they are exposed to different ideas and different cultures, they
also need to learn STEM -- But education, to me, is where we need to focus our attention if we're
going to grow the next generation of national security leaders. Now, when it comes to immediate
threats, kind of outside of our boundaries, my focus would actually be on Russia. I
mean, China is going to be a competitor, we recognize that I don't really see us coming
to blows with China. I think they're too smart for that. And hopefully, we're too smart
for that. Russia to me, and Putin, you know, he likes to play the great game. I think he plays
it, frankly, better than anyone out there. I mean, you look at what he did in Crimea, and is
pushing Ukraine and in Syria. And of course, he has been very aggressive. He's threatened us
on the high seas, he's threatened us in the air. So a miscalculation with Russia could lead to a
shooting conflict. I don't know whether it would be a big war. But I'm more concerned about Russia
than I am China or even North Korea. And while you know Kim Jong Un he's only concerned about the
survival of his regime, I think you can understand that that's a given. And that makes him a player
that you can that you can work with, because you understand what he's trying to achieve. He's
a rational actor in a very irrational way. Andrew, has a question for
you, Andrew, step on up here. Good afternoon. Admiral, thank you so much for your time. It's great to have you here. And
it's great to hear your insight. I have a question regarding history and historical studies. I'm part
of Chicago Booth class of 2022. To you, what is the most impactful or beneficial period
of history to study as a professional leader? Wow. You know, I've had 1000s of questions over the years. I don't
know that anybody's ever tossed that one my way. You know, if I had to think about history,
I actually a lot of the books back here are ancient history. My sense of history
is: it really hasn't changed much when you think about the nature of warfare, and
you think about the nature of diplomacy. I will tell you, I think it is important to read,
how did we deal with the Cuban Missile Crisis? And how did the the Allies come together in
World War Two? And what were the bad things we did in South America in the 60s? Those are all
important things to understand. But if you go back and read about, you know, ancient Rome and ancient
Greece, if you read Machiavelli, the matter is, the dynamics between human beings haven't
changed much, you know, in 1000s, and 1000s, of years. So you have to understand that, I
think, kind of going into it. And then once you have this foundation and this recognition that,
you know, battle doesn't really change -- the weapons might change, we might get machine
guns when they go from cavalry to motorized, but the nature of warfare doesn't change, and I
would offer the nature of diplomacy doesn't change --What changes are the circumstances.
So, read a little bit of ancient history, and then find those kind of modern, big
ticket items like the Cuban Missile Crisis, how did Kennedy deal with that? The Vietnam
War, those sorts of things, and then pull the two together. The history in between is
all kind of the same or more of the same. Thanks Andrew, Jay? Step on
up here. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for speaking with us. I'm Jay Roberts. I'm a former Submariner. I'm currently in
Washington, DC, and with the Booth Class of 2022. My question is, what advice can you give
to veterans transitioning to civilian life after a career of service? Yeah, Thanks, Jay. You know, what you're gonna
find is you have to learn the business first. So when I transitioned from running SOCOM to being
the Chancellor of the University of Texas System, you know, I knew nothing about higher education,
and nothing about healthcare. So the UT System was not just, you know, UT Austin-- it's 230,000 kids,
100,000 employees, eight academic institutions and six very large healthcare institutions.
I knew nothing about that. I had about a five month sabbatical between when I retired
and when I took the job. And I'm telling you, I spent that five months talking to people,
learning everything I could about the business. Back to the question that was posed early on about
what's good in ROTC, you're gonna learn the basic. I needed to understand: what does a Chair do?
What does a dean do? What does a provost do? What's the difference between a researcher,
what's the difference between an oncological surgeon? I wanted to understand the basics,
once you understand the basics, or at least as much as you can about the organization, then the
leadership skills that you had as a Submariner, they're transferable, they're fungible, you
will immediately find that once you understand how things work, and you build a matrix, that you
build your own little: Okay, I see how this works, you will be able to maneuver very nicely. If
you don't take the time upfront, to work hard, to learn the business, then everything you learn
in the military will go for naught, because you'll be struggling with understanding the basics. And
then finally, it's just a matter of working hard, and earning the respect of your
colleagues. And you know how to do that. Thank you, sir. Thank you for your
service. And thanks for your question. And finally, Jack, is Jack lined up here? If not, I have his question. Jack, who is a West Point graduate, a former Army
Ranger asks, "What are the national security risks and potential benefits you see in the trend
of commercialization of the space industry?" I think the commercialization of the
space industry is actually a good thing. I've got a brother in law who works at NASA. I've
watched the space industry over the years. So I, you know, I think what NASA has been surprised
by and I've heard a number of NASA directors talk about the fact that they really didn't think that
the commercialization was going to work. And of course, now it has worked. We've seen SpaceX,
you know, rendezvous with the International Space Station, I do think this kind of marriage of
public and private, if you will, is going to serve the space industry well. And you know, they're
always going to be one of those folks that want to work on the kind of the federal government
side with NASA. But then there are always those that want to work on the commercial side and
have a little bit more latitude and freedom to be inventive and those sorts of things. And I
think the partnership will serve America well. You also sent in a question that I thought was
really great. And I want to quickly ask this one as well. You asked, "What do you believe about
leadership that everybody else thinks is crazy?" I'm not sure I've learned
anything new in leadership, in terms of everything that you're going to read,
I mean, we know as leaders, you know, you've got to kind of lead from the front, you have to
take care of your troops. You know, you want to share the hardships, those sorts of things are,
I think, the most, you know, commonly known things about leadership. But the one thing I think really
has stuck with me is I'll get back to hard work. You know, whenever I went into an organization,
I found that in order to earn the respect of the men and women that I worked with, I
had to work hard. I had to show up early, I had to bust my hump all day long. And I had to,
I had to go home late. now. I'll give you one more story. When I was a Navy captain, I was in a very
serious parachute accident. And 9/11 happens and I was asked come to the White House. So I went
to the White House, I didn't really have time to rehab. And about 18 months after my time in the
White House. The SEALs down in Virginia Beach were having a commanders conference and they
invited me down. I'm a senior Navy captain. And we go down there and as SEALs do we got up
that morning everybody did the PT and then we were going to go for a 10 mile run. Well, I was
still kind of broken, so I go out to do the PT and I kind of got through the push ups, but it
was hard for me to do a lot of the other things. And then we go to the run. Well, you
know, as typical SEALs, it's a race, and I'm hanging tough for 100 yards -- and then
the guys take off. And I'm struggling because my injury was to my pelvis, and it
was hard to run. But as I'm running, it was a two mile loop around a course where we're
doing, as I'm running, this kid, after a while, passes me -- laps me. And as he's lapping me,
he's a young officer, and I'm struggling, He says, "sir, what are you doing?" And I'm plodding through He goes,
"sir, you don't have anything else to prove. You don't need to be out here
doing this, you got nothing else to prove." And I didn't say anything and the kid ran on.
And he was absolutely wrong. You have to prove something every single day. If you wake up
and think you don't have anything to prove, if you wake up, and you think you don't
have to work harder than everybody else, that you don't have to lead better than
everybody else, that you don't have to earn the SEALs Triton that you've spent, you know, 37
years, then you're mistaken. If you're a leader, you wake up every single morning, and realize you
still have something to prove. When the day comes that you think you got nothing left to prove, it's
time for you to move on and go do something else. I bet you that young man who lapped
you probably did think you were crazy. So that's probably a great answer to
the question. But let me say Admiral, having gotten to know you a little and knowing
what the people I worked with thought about you, there's no race that you wouldn't win
at the end, because your character and your commitment is really unparalleled,
and,your insights not just into military issues, but into people, which is such an important
part of leadership. So we are so grateful for you being here. I'm grateful for all your years
of service and to know you and appreciate what you've done in the past and what you'll do in the
future for our country. So thank you very much. My pleasure. Thanks very much, David.
Great to join you all today. Thanks. Thank you.
