Abuses of the American Regulatory System With Balaji Srinivasan | EP #6 Moonshots and Mindsets

getting that degree of moral alignment of even a thousand like really really intense zealous activice then the market will exist because the policies the laws are moved out of the way and so you've cleared the underbrush and is now feasible to build and a massive transformative purpose is what you're telling the world it's like this is who I am this is what I'm going to do this is the dent I'm going to make in the universe apology good morning buddy good morning good to see you yeah it was fun hanging out with you in New York uh yeah and uh I'm getting a chance to connect and talk about all kinds of fun things but you know I just noted uh you've erased the magic whiteboard behind you when's the last time that was blank just just a few days ago actually um you know I try to try to just keep myself sharp you know do some equations and I can't think without a whiteboard it's like I need to get up there and diagram and and write it out and it's a it's a just a large buffer um and it's just bigger than a piece of paper and something about the manual Act of writing things out because you know we grew up in the offline world before the online world and have some of some of that DNA in us still um you know it's good that they still teach kids you know writing with their hands and whatever yeah I can't wait till I get into the VR world where I can just sort of like throw things up against the wall virtually and see back what was looking at even a year ago or 10 years ago right the gesture stuff you do need the haptic feedback of some kind but you could imagine holding like an apple pencil or something like that and uh I'm just not sure it would feel the same without a surface to push against but there's probably something that could be done on that I think so so I I'm curious I what do your mornings look like cuz it's nighttime here in Santa Monica it's morning over there where you are how do you start your day what do you do how do I start my day um my ideal day is uh which is which is an ideal not always achieved but the ideal day is uh I actually try to wake up without an alarm um and I try not to schedule too many things super early in the morning um and I try to work out I if I can first thing you know usually that's a goal 100% of the time and it's not achieved but try to work out first thing and then I start the day um and try to have as many huge blocks of time as possible that are unscheduled and if I do meetings um I have them all on the same day like you know for example Thursdays are meeting day and then or Mondays and Thursdays or meeting day and then nothing on the other days and so this way either I've got a back to back to back to back meeting day with lots of phone calls and stuff can be very efficient and then I take the to-dos and then I execute on them the other days or I can just allocate as I see fit on that day and there's a huge difference between like an entire day versus a 6- hour block of Time Versus a 1 hour block of time in terms of getting ready for deep work you know yeah I I get it it's that precious time you know for me it's getting up in the morning and looking at what are the single most important things I have to do during the day sort of making that top three list like if I achieve these three things I'm super happy the day it's prioritizing because ultimately everything gets in the way and you reach the end of the day and like I missed these things yeah that's right and I think actually I what I do is I have this uh little app that um you can change your wallpaper background on your phone it's almost like a montra I'll try to reduce the top one or top three things that I want to get done into just three words and I just like mutter them to myself I see them subconsciously every time I pick up the phone it just reminds me oh yeah did I act on that thing today you know um it's like when I was at coinbase it was like uh um assets earn usdc something like that like in you know Q3 or whatever right and so just like remember those three things and something like along those lines yeah no it's it's great it's how you start your day like when the morning morning when the day is is so true uh in in uh in life and and for me it's you know it's get a great night sleep it's do you eat n in fast do you eat in the morning well so what I've actually found really works well if when I can stick to it is omad um like the one meal a day um if you basically set that time for example you one meal a day from 12:00 to 1: p.m. okay and that's it and the rest of the day you just drink water coffee whatever okay if you can stick to that there two things that happen first is um you I mean like that meal tastes so good okay number one and number two is you just spend a lot less time eating and you uh you have you have more energy at other times and so on the tricky where it gets tricky is if you have to do social dinners um then it's like sort of a rude to not eat and B um it's like in Dungeons and Dragons you know you roll a saving throw do you know what that is yep yeah so if you're in front of the food for two hours you're and you haven't eaten in whatever a day or something like that you're like it's hard yeah it's it's it's something where the constant Temptation can overwhelm one's willpower at a certain point right at that point the only trick you can do is tell the entire table that you're not going to eat so that you've got social pressure to fulfill in fact your obligation not to eat yeah but it's also kind of odd right like depending on what culture you know if you're if you're meeting with strangers what have you it's often rude or your mom or whatever yeah exactly that's right that's right so so it's something where you know that's actually the thing that can sort of break the omad diet is the social eading um it's kind of thing that you could have in a in one one of my one commandment societies like uh you'd have omad one commandment and that actually would have the social pressure the opposite way sort of like how preco um the social pressure was if it's important it has to be in person right and then when that flipped finally for the very that that was not a technological flip that was a cultural flip when that flipped to the very highest level of society so now you could do large deals remote you could do there's not there's no limits on remote right no cultural limits on remote that was actually the key bottleneck on remote was was that and I think what's going to happen eventually is a lot of that moves into VR or the metaverse and so on like you know you could actually in a sense have you know I know sounds there going to be people who listen to that like oh that sucks or whatever I'm not saying you can't have like a physical event if you don't want to have a physical event many kinds of events will be more visually interesting in the metaverse people won't feel like they need to look at their phones because it's just more interesting there's more fireworks more stuff happening Pizzazz Etc you know I remember years ago I was uh you know we have this x prize event every year clo Global visioneering where we come up and look at our next prizes and like about six seven years ago uh one of the prizes I put forward for was uh have a virtual experience in event that is measurably better than being there in person so that you much rather willing go there right the information that you have the experience that you have and so forth so I wish we had had that ex prise it would have given birth to zoom even earlier or some variations of it but you know how far are we in your mind I mean cuz I'm going to have a lot more information about you sure uh you know pupilary dilation and where you're looking intonation and all of that as well as being able to have my AI visualize everything you're speaking about in the moment you're saying it so how do I think about that so um the you know I've mentioned this before but I think the augmented reality glasses are one of the most there's a few different convergence devices that I think are coming you know one of them is you know the metaverse another is the digital passport the third are AR glasses and those those are all kind of related right metaverse is perhaps like super obvious at this point us you know it's Video Games Plus social networks plus workplace chat apps like slack uh plus you know crypto I think I think that's an obvious component of an open metaverse yes plus the transfer of of value people places and things yes yes that's right so and uh so that's like you know one piece of it the second piece is the AR glasses which think are the hardware enablement of it sort of like how people talked about mobile prior to the iPhone but it wasn't really it wasn't you know Jack dorsy was familiar with uh the 140 character thing for Twitter was I believe based on certain SMS message lengths um when Twitter got set up in 2005 a few years before the iPhone so Jacky was on top of mobile before mobile was a thing yeah I mean in AR glasses the application the business opportunity right so I talk about the fact that we have millions and millions of dollars that have dematerialized into your cell phone right that have have digitized and gone away and they're demonetized and dematerialized in your cell phone and the question is when's your cell phone going to dematerialize and it's going to dematerialize into your AR glasses right along with lots of other things have you seen this basically um this is one of my favorite images uh which is like all the devices that went into um your smartphone here this is that that 20 years later all these things fit in your pocket image yeah yeah it's this one it's a yeah you're showing a camcorder a boom box headphones um a walkie-talkie a cell phone CD player uh music recorder VCR you know a bunch of tape a bunch of uh VHS tapes um you know like uh etc etc a bunch bunch of different devices speakers all these things just got put into that one convergence device right and actually you know people in the 90s thought that convergence device was going to be your television because that was the obvious thing with a screen that people were constantly looking at and so people thought it was going to be the TV that was everything but the TV is a little too far and you have the gorilla arms thing when you're interacting with it and so on so this is you know you take a bunch of different kind kinds of apps which are now fairly mature right the social networks and the video games and so on and actually you know an interesting point people talk about remote work a lot but you know uh what the compliment to remote work is is uh is remote life okay and a non-obvious point perhaps or maybe obvious in retrospect is while um social networks and video games were not built consciously for remote socializing they give that implicitly yeah they they they do and and it's the tools to enable us to be working 24/7 any place on the planet at a level of productivity and quality I'm about to go on a 3-we trip I'm going to Florence uh Geneva Spain Riad and back and I'm going to take my mics my cameras my lights and I'll be on the only challenge is the time zone challenge which is when you get when you get to the Middle East if you live in California everybody's waking up at midnight and you can work 24/7 and having a fantastic productivity for about 2 days then you dropped down exhausted right right right right right no it's funny I mean it's basically it's something where you know one thing I've talked about is um in the remote economy there are only three locations in the same office in the same time zone and around the world right I love that hey thanks for listening to moonshots and mindsets I want to take a second to tell you about a company that I love it's called levels and it helps me be responsible for the food that I eat what I bring into my body see we were never designed as humans to eat as much sugar as we do and sugar is not good for your brain or your heart or your body in general levels helps me monitor the impact of the foods that I eat by monitoring my blood sugar for example I learned that if I dip my bread in olive oil it blunts my glycemic response which is good for my health if you're interested learn more by going to levels. link Peter levels will give you an extra 2 months of membership it's something that is critical for the future of your longevity all right let's get back to the conversation in the episode you know it's interesting I've hired so many people in over the last two years and I don't actually know where some of them live right and don't care where they live right you know it's it's amazing one of the things that's interesting is we began to onshore uh our production lines our uh our our capacity for manufacturing and we've offshored our key talent in an extraordinary balance yes and I think the thing about it is you know I'm not the first person to make this observation but historically latitude was how the world was organized you know like because the same latitude meant the same crops and you know like similar climactic conditions you know you're warm whereas you go up you're cold you go down you're equatorial right and and now it's longitude longitude is organizing principle where in a sense you know I put here's this tweet right like the Nordic States in Cape Town are 10,000 km apart but in basically the same time zone plusus an hour or so right yes so it's actually now longitude is a more important organizing principle in some ways for the world than latitude which is this huge huge civilizational difference we've just begun to do this gigantic Global repricing of real estate the other thing is you know obviously starlink opens up the map and so all kinds of places that were in the middle of nowhere you know historically you located cities near ports you located them near mines more recently you've had them near universities right where the knowledge economy is but now the knowledge economy is on the internet and in theory you could take some totally godforsaken Backwater and build it into something Burning Man shows that that is possible right now and can we extend that to building man I think we can and um I like that building man and the other thing that what used to be an organizing principle was language and of course we've got you know uh translation capabilities today that are even breaking that down so yeah so I mean this is an interesting question because you know something I've thought about it are you know uh some sometimes the effects of Technology are surprising you know uh teal had this line that AI is centralized and crypto is decentralized and someone said well actually recently crypto is becoming centralized with stable coin control and things like that and the cbdc and digital Yuan and it's AI That's gotten decentralized with stable diffusion which is funny right I think there's actually uh and then I think you can have a third point on that triangle by the way which is social so AI CP and social and and it's almost like TR to talk about that okay but why why those three Technologies in particular because um as opposed to electric cars or rocket ships those three Technologies are um ways to coordinate human beings right social and crypto are ways to coordinate them obviously it's you know either up votes or or cryptocurrency it's like democracy or capitalism then AI is a way to replace a human being with a brain right so those are three things that are essentially technopolitical Technologies as opposed to let's say an electric car or rocket ship which is not interacting with the human per se coming back up basically the question of what is the impact of AI and and you know machine translation you and I have seen demos for a while that show somebody speaking in English and then it's speaking in Chinese in their own voice like recognizably on the in the voice but with a perfect Chinese accent right that's been around for some time as demos uh and I think it's probably not too far given the ridiculous pace of um you know AI progress with the Transformers and so on that um you'll be able to speak in your voice into the phone and it'll speak out in your voice in Chinese or Korean or what have you I don't think that's too many years away Google trans is already close to that right and um once that happens you know the obvious you know prediction would be well the language spheres of the world collapse into one thing okay um and and so let me take the obvious prediction then let me do the non-obvious prediction the obvious prediction is right now there's basically two internets there's English internet and the Chinese internet and all the other internets are actually interesting because they're much less surveilled than those two big ones interesting so you start to get uh uh little fums of privacy potentially that's right right and so like you know this is a non-obvious point perhaps but basically what I've realized um you know for example there is this really popular Indian app called share chat have you ever heard of it uh I have not okay so share chat's big thing is uh no English okay so one thing you know many people know this but you know I'll just say like India is like uh it's best thought of as being like Europe you know just like the Spaniards and the fins are both in Europe but very different right different cultures and languages and so on um India is like this it's like a continent with a billion people and you know South Indians and North like they speak different languages you know they're now part of one you know giant civilizational state but they do have different languages and what have you just like you know Finnish and Spanish or whatever are different right and so share chat um has you know Hindi marati Bengali Gujarati Punjabi malum right um it does have the language itself here written in English and there's like some you know onboarding that's in English right but it's a non-english social media app right and that means it has sort of shelter from the global internet okay and you just have different kinds of things it's like way more positive in some ways for example right um and uh and it's just something which is intentionally illegible To The World At Large right and one thought I've had uh and here's here's my other kind of tweet on um I'll just whatever this kind of relevant um here uh English and Chinese are perhaps the most monitored languages platform operators in the US and China Speak these languages so it's easier for them to act as digital thought Poli but other language spheres may have greater practical Freedom right and so this is the machine translation point that you were just making on the one hand machine translation could in a positive way unite the world in a negative way make every conversation legible to surveillance okay on the other hand if we think about the Revival of Hebrew right um maybe that's what happens and we actually get much more share chat like stuff because if you can translate into a language you can translate out of a language into a private language so I'm going to come back here in a little bit when we talk about uh Innovation talk about life off this planet and such but I want to take the conversation someplace different sure uh it's an area that we have a passion about and a lot of people listening I think have a passion about which is Health Tech and Longevity yes it's something that you know you and I go back may people people may not know your your background in this area in fact uh you and I both got a phone call uh from I don't if it was Elon or Peter teal yeah uh Elon was calling me with Peter in line saying do you want to be the head of NASA um and I was like I'd rather put a gun to my head to do that uh are you willing to say what he was calling you to ask you to be the ahead of yeah I mean it's been reported basically FDA and uh you know the thing about that is I could have been number two at FDA for sure I think uh that was you know potentially on the table but I I ultimately decided to not do that and remain in crypto and uh and actually that was before that was obviously a good decision but yeah at the time my reasoning you know I've got my little notes file or whatever on this um or like like my not file my little pen and paper notes um and my reasoning then I think is stronger now which is it was easier to start Bitcoin than to reform the FED I think it's going to be so let's let's dive into that right because the reality is I want to talk about the fact that the United States is 42nd in the world in uh in longevity which is insane right declining do you see that see theat and declining over the last the last two years it's been declining yeah and it's so the question is you know why in the world with the amount of wealth and Technology uh is it in such a state of disrepair and and what can we do about this right the level of bureaucracy in the FDA is one thing but putting aside well let's let's dive into into into the regulatory process right now because you know and I I've talked about this uh we've talked about this before that the government values lives lost from action more than lives lost from inaction right if you if you approve a drug and people die you're in trouble if you don't approve a drug and people die you know you're being safe right how do you how do you C possibly counter that is there a solution for that so first thing I was just going to say is like uh that that kind of oneliner was it's easier to it was easier to found Bitcoin than to reform than to reform the fed and I think it's literally easier to start a new country than to reform the FDA and the US medical system as insane as that sounds okay I I believe it right okay and it's also I think easier to start a new city than to reform San Francisco why is this the case so you said something which was interesting which you said um you know despite all this wealth you know Etc there isn't this Innovation I I would argue potentially it is because of all that wealth that there isn't The Innovation that is to say um if you you know you the US and the West to some extent have civilizational diabetes what does that mean so for example if you have obviously too little food that's bad you die right ah got it if you have too much food you get fat and you get diabetes and you know you you have too much sugar and it's it's too rich a life and and that's actually also bad right and so there's lots of things that are sort of at that optimal level you know and so yes of course if you are raised in the woods and your pre-industrial civilization and so on you need a little bit more wealth you know flesh toilets and indoor Heating and stuff like that to to develop but if you have too much well then you you're playing to not lose you're not playing to win you know you're risk averse rather than you know risk-seeking um it is not rational to push the envelope even for example some of the terminology we have the developed world and the developing World developed indicates it's an endpoint we're done right and you know what I'm saying right Tada Tada we're done right and and uh you know the finished world and the and the approaching world or something and um an alternative frame what happens then is people take so much for granted that now it actually starts collapsing you know we we have if you were to graph the cost of infrastructure for example in the US um for example San Francisco has paid $300 million for a bus lane and taking like almost 20 years to build it they held they held a they held a ceremony for opening a public bathroom with two stalls with literally guys with cameras being like whoa public okay apology I want to see inside your brain as the neurons connect from the FDA to toilet stalls yes okay I'll come I'll come back I'll come back I'll bring it all together yeah so so the thing is that all of these costs have been imposed and you know that's that's very physical and tangible that's the reason I point to that is you can see that the government has become insanely inefficient uh on the physical infrastructure like a bath I mean the same the quote the same US government that built interstate highway system and put a man on the moon is holding a press conference for opening a bathroom right um but it's not the same it's kind of crazy right it's not the same government it's a government which has uh legitimacy and continuity but radically diminish capacity in the sense of State capacity right we are identifying it as the same thing but it's like saying that Rome is the same as the Roman Empire because it has the same name it is basically something which yes there is a line that connects it there's also a lot of lines that broke right there's it is something that's inherited the name it's like the the fifth or the 10th Generation inheritor of a factory as opposed to the founder of the factory right so once you have that and by the way we see this we see this in multigenerational wealth right the the creator of the family creates the weal weth and and drives the value the second generation is trying to preserve it the third generation is is losing it that's right and I actually you know I don't have an answer as to what to do with you know giant amounts of wealth and uh you know beyond one person um because I you know I don't think that just giving it to the state and having it thrown into the same wood chipper as everything else is necessarily the best thing and I want to come back to philanthropy as a standalone I want to come back to the notion of FDA yeah let's talk FDA and biom Medicine y so basically you talked about how you that stuff is invisible right and that's like bosot seen and unseen right you know that illusion it's like uh when a window is broken everybody sees the glass maker and all the economic activity that's coming to repair the window but is not seen is the capital uh or or what the what the shopkeeper would have done with that Capital if they didn't have to repair the window right so it's a broken windows fallacy okay and uh that's the same thing that happens with the FDA which um as you've you know as you said if there is a uh if there's a thide if there's a viox if there's one of these situations elixir of sulphanilamide was one of the earlier things that has congal investigation yes exactly that's right so you know fundamentally um there's there's a couple of points first is you can make the emotional case for uh what is being held back how uh by for example talking about drug lag you know if you've got a drug that was approved and then after its approval you see a quantifiable reduction in morbidity and mortality but it took 10 years to approve therefore that morbidity and mortality excess during those 10 years is on the head of FDA yes right that is and then you could go and interview those people and you could ask them what did your you know husband what did your you know child die from they died from this disease did you know that drug was approved 5 years later could have saved them that's actually something where you can actually have the human story around it right you you could quantify the cost in human lives and such and and when one way that happened was in 1991 um with act up are are you familiar with act up I'm not so in 1991 um you know people who had AIDS uh were protesting the FDA and uh because they had a lethal it was very the entire course obviously of the disease was you know incredibly rapid right at that time and uh you know there were folks like this if I die of AIDS forget burial just Dro My Body on the steps of the FDA okay love that all right and because essentially these people that now the impact of uh drug lag was not some abstract thing it was not some slow degenerative thing it was a very fast decline in otherwise healthy person and they weren't even being allowed to test these experimental drugs right so they had the moral Authority on their side they went there they protested and this resulted in certain reforms to FDA where it started actually losing some power okay and so it had to get some of these things through all right let me throw out this idea we've talked about bit but I want to uh get your riew on it uh you know if you look at uh a accredited investor in a regulation de offering right if anybody started a private company and you're trying to raise money you need to have accredited investors these are people who can have a you know net worth of over a million dollars or making a quar million dollars a year and they're allowed to invest in Risky things but if you take a company public you uh go through enough lawyers and enough process that you know grandmothers and kids can invest in a public company and so I've wondered always why isn't there an accredited patient program where I'm a patient I've got a fatal disease I want to go and try this crazy ass treatment and it's my life and you can't tell me I can't try it uh and as long as I have a review of my next toin or my physician or I'm of sound mind I should be allowed to try it right a freedom to try anything right to try yep right to try yes so my my choice right to try I do believe in this in fact there are laws called quote right to try laws um that allow people to try drugs because look if you can literally jump off a bridge if you can go Bungie jumping and skydiving if you can go and fight in a war right if you can you know take you know like I mean the US is building statues to Breaking Bad you know you familiar with that there's like literally yes yeah so literally statues to fictional drug dealers who are selling drugs that you know yeah it's a movie or whatever but they're definitely injurious to you and so like Society is in a sense celebrating them they're like well you know people are going to do it anyway let's hand out the syringes or whatever in San Francisco yet you can't be you're you're prevented from taking a life affirming drug and enhancing drug something that can cure you or what have you right so this is this totally backwards kind of thing um one thing I wanted to say by the way you asked why not and I I argue there's actually kind of two levels to engage on and the level that actually technologists do not reflexively engage on but need to train themselves to engage on is to start with the moral argument right why because what'll happen is if you talk about FDA or something like that immediately you're going to be hit with a br of oh the lamide oh you know you know if if they really know the history elixir of self anite oh Vio oh my God all these scandals etc etc and so then you have to hit back with um with act up with Banting and Best with uh you know the uh the fact that FDA approved the body scanners all these things where they've either let bad things through or sto good things from getting through okay once you've done that now it's it's sort of like a you know air superiority if they can just win on the air game and just say this is bad what you're trying to say boom they just blow up all your stuff over here and people just Quail right if you have your own airplanes and you can hit moral for moral argument now it goes to the rational argument right now it's basically something where they don't have air superiority anymore they can't just knock you out of the battlefield with what you're saying is bad you Tech bro whatever right instead now you've got a moral counterargument where it simply can't be answered in terms of people yelling at each other now you have to go and look at the numbers okay so start with a moral with a good bad now we go to rational what is rational rational is think of FDA and every regulator as essentially a binary classifier it's got a type one and a type two error rate okay it's got both false positives and it's got false negatives and true positives and true negatives okay and now you can actually start to assess any regulator as literally a binary class classier it takes in a bunch of signals okay on drug and device approvals and it outputs a zero or one or more sophisticated it might be like zero or one under some conditions or for some people right but once you can think of it like this this entire structure of you know ndas like new drug submiss new drug applicationss right like the that entire structure of uh of things um is uh is something which is basically input to a binary classifier right and um essentially this is something where um it's it's useful to think of it this way because now you can throw math at it right now you can Benchmark it now you can make the invisible visible because any you're assuming a rationality uh that does not necessarily exist but it is a future that's possible Right in a in a network state in a in you know as we it we're going to have the chance to redesign governance in the future hope that's right and go yeah and you'll you'll talk about that but before we do before we do I want to take our conversation to a topic we talked about in New York which is longevity yes so um uh how long do you hope to live um well I'm not sure this particular vessel will make it but I hope uh um I hope we can extend it for future Generations I how as long as possible let me put it like that um all right but you know a little bit you know but or maybe a l that's that's fine and you and you know that you know that that can be reversed uh but but without a Target you'll miss it every time so if I were to say to you right now uh you know given what you know can I ask how old are you now yeah I'm 42 you're 42 so you're still young I'm 61 how old do do you thank you great if I shave I look much younger so anyway forg all right well that's a that's a regeneration technique it just go shave tomorrow morning yes uh but what's your give me a Target like if if you could snap your fingers and actually hit it what would you what do you think is a under over on your age H um sorry to talk about morbid things but no no no no it's a good question uh you need a huge potentially a huge supply chain maybe there's a miracle drug or something like that that'll just do it um there's a whole cocktail that I'm not looking for an analysis I'm looking for a number a number I mean I I I would I would live to as long as I could live for uh I understand yeah I I don't know what do I personally think I guess I'm I set my expectations low I I guess you know in the sense of um I think I will live a normal lifespan what you consider normal lifespan I don't know 75 or 80 but um dude go ahead we have to talk yeah but but but but I all the upside that comes from that is a positive surprise right um okay and so the reason I I I set my expectations low is uh for example do we talk about genomic reincarnation uh no but I can I can hypothesize okay so this is something I think of as more feasible than cryonics okay and um the reason I use the term reincarnation rather than Resurrection will be clear okay are you signed up for crionics by the way uh no but but I will do this okay so let me explain what this is so basically the short the short concept is sequence your DNA um and everything else you can have that on disk and if you have high enough Karma your Society revives you at some point in the future once or not revives reincarnates you once eukariotic chromosome synthesis is possible okay that's the short version let me explain it a little bit longer basically as you're probably aware uh you know the you can divide into bacteria archa and ukaria that's the Three Kingdoms of Life right yes and for bacteria we've been able to actually have a genome on disk that you can effectively print out bacterial chromosome synthesis is feasible ventner at all did this you know a long time ago like it it's actually it's actually possible to do that it's like about a megabase of sequence or there they pro procaryotic life right yeah and and those are those are very simple chromosomes often just like a a loop or a ring or something like they don't have a lot of structure relatively to to UK carats uh ukar chromosome synthesis is getting better and better and it's much more complicated to synthesize you know human chromosomes but it is it is gradually improving if you spot me that one sci-fi technology okay which is that we can eventually do ukar chromosome synthesis and by the way George Church very much wants to do that okay yeah sure so which is great um I you know I follow this I look at this every year they're about to see see where it's getting to if you spot that me that sci-fi technology then eventually if you have the DNA of Einstein or someone like that on dis you could print out Young Einstein okay you could basically and of course you'd have to figure out the details of getting that chromosome into an embryo and and you know all that type of stuff that's non-trivial I grant all of that okay nevertheless there is potentially a path there that I think is more realistic it's funny to put it that way than or not let's say I think it's a cryonics the hard part is um but you skipped an entire part of this which is how do you keep yourself alive longer right so I know I just go to what I think is what I think is feasible well you didn't ask me what my life expectancy okay okay go ahead sorry sorry I should I should have asked you that go ahead what's your life so it's like the only that's the only you know sort of uh uh polite polite conversation go great so I have to tell you a story so I'm in medical school uh I was doing a joint mdphd program and in engineering aerospace engineering in medicine and I'm watching this television show on Long lived sea life and it's you know bowhead whales can live 200 years and Greenland sharks can live four or 500 years and SE Turtles potentially could live longer and I'm like if they can live that long why can't I right they've got some anti- cancer stuff going on in their well yeah but it's all software so I said it's either a software problem or Hardware problem Fair okay and we're going to be able to get the tools to improve what do you mean by software in that what do you mean by software in that sense you mean like Bic we can we can dose it with drugs versus change ACC Hardware I mean I mean add the genes required for increased uh you know uh uh cancer detection or repair systems um and it's it's basically alter your actively altered genetic code while you're alive MH all right or replace the orans chrisper chrisper chrisper shows that this is potentially that this is possible um I think uh CLE cell was actually yeah but yeah so CLE cell anemia beta Thalia a whole range of of diseases right there's going to be a point I think it's the next 10 years that every genetic disease if it's got enough funding behind it can be in fact cured I think I think it's possible here's here's the article like um CLE cell patient treated with crisper Gene eding still thriving so in Al live patient um and it looks like the modification is actually taking place but the thing is with with um you know with CLE cell because you can treat it by modifying the cells in the bone marrow those can basically be uptaken through the entire body um sure but there's a lot of other there's a lot of other disas es uh in uh in liver diseases in in uh we're we curing cancer we're curing uh uh different uh uh forms of congenital blindness it's we're able to use Associated viruses to Target specific cell types in liver in skin in in bone Mar whatever it might be but I'm I'm still going back to my prediction of my own life expectancy so I set my life expectancy at a ridiculous number when I was in medical school years ago no it something much more reasonable like 500 years um but the challenge the challenge is that if you can live you know my my hypothesis biology is if you can if so let's back up a second okay that say that's ridiculous fine coming back to 200 years50 years okay we know people can make it to 120 years right there's there's reasonable uh validated individuals who have lived supercentenarians 112 115 120 yep so we know we can get there and and so okay let's set a target of 120 I'm 60 that's 60 years from now I'm 61 59 years from now in 59 years the amount of progress we're going to be seeing is unfathomable in the form of AI and Quantum Computing and and genomics and understanding so it's not that I have to make those changes today I need to live long enough to build the next bridge to live longer and so forth right I completely get the argument it's basically the argument of for longevity and if you can just survive long enough to get there then you get the sky Hooks and you you know you get the boosting and so on and so forth so 75 80 for yourself well the reason is because uh you know I'm I I am I think myself as a pragmatic idealog right where um or a pessimist as the case may be I'm not a pessimist actually I I would not consider myself an optimist either I'm um you know actually Elan had this thing where he's like you know he's determined rather than pessimistic or optimistic I am about technological Fe like I will set you know a North star kind of gold there I'm I'm just as ambitious I think as you in the sense of I do think this can be done whether it can be done within my lifetime I don't know whether it'll be done soon enough for me I don't know um will push really hard to get there um I think like the pragmatic ID log is basically the concept of setting that North Star and that that destination and then you know you have a winding path there you have to accumulate the capital and figure out the bugs and recruit the team and do a thousand pragmatic things to reach that destination and that balance of things most people who are very pragmatic are not ID logs and most ID logs are not very pragmatic right so or or realize that the biggest business opportunity on the planet is in fact is adding healthy years in a person's life and then realize that ultimately billions of dollars are flowing into this Marketplace and the more credible the conversation becomes the more capital is coming in the more people are investing and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy in that yeah yes but the question is so the key thing is more credible right and I look I love the concept of the bold declaration and so on I'm going to live till X number of years and so more power to that what I found that moves the needle for people so to speak is um the visuals right uh you know we we we were showing this you know when when you and I were talking in New York right um the what I the quote holy phenotypes right um so let me actually put a few of those on screen uh here's one this is not exactly longevity but it is an amazing visual right so that guy before and after you know longevity like his you know his hair is now UNG graying and then if you scroll down there's another guy with the same thing who look and this was a chemotherapy for side effect yeah it was a side effect of a treatment for lung cancer right and um the the thing about this is um you know I this is this is a non- trite Point it'll sound like a trite point but I think it's not which is longevity crypto is actually very similar to longevity in that they both um reject fundamental premises of the establishment while also bearing some similarities okay for example with crypto the similarities to the existing you know Finance system is you have the bar charts and the you know you have you have um obviously Market depth a lot of this kind of stuff looks like traditional Finance right that's a surface resemblance but the substrate the the the underlying difference in premises is that the establishment for example will say uh yeah hyperinflation is bad but deflation is also bad therefore mild inflation is good right a little inflation is good whereas crypto will say or Satoshi said hyperinflation is bad and Mild inflation is also bad and deflation is good because it reflects genuine reduction in prices over time okay and and that's a fundamental premise difference and there's other premise differences it's like you should have control over your own uh data and you should have um you know sovereignty over your own currency and and I see this I was going to I was going to ask you why there's such a correlation between longevity and the crypto space because I'm seeing you know your Brian Armstrong has committed you know a huge amount to the space and there's a lot of the crypt billionaires uh disproportionate from traditional Wall Street wealthy individuals have been investing in this in this space and I think I think you know halin who is if not Satoshi is one of the best certainly an influence on Satoshi uh was also was was then called an extropia you know who was into this type of stuff longevity and transhumanism and and whatnot in the 90s you call you call Optimal uh I call it optimism right because optimism transhumanism now more recently has acquired negative connotations I agree with you by the way yeah but op optimism I think is is uh something which is you know not optimism but optimal right it doesn't say push things to their extreme necessarily says push things to their Optimum right it's got kind of a positive connotation so one of the things that gives me hope here and it's it's something I've I've mentioned before uh in our conversation is you know we've got the same exact genes when we're born when we're 20 when we're 50 when we're 60 when we're 80 we're in 100 hopefully when we're 120 and the question is why do your body look different why does your hair get white why do you get flabby and it's not the genes you have your genetics uh are not it's your it's your transcriptome it's which genes are on which genes are off and the question is do you always have do you always have inside of yourself that youthful State and so the work that Davidson Clair and George church and a few others have been doing has been able to demonstrate that in a number of systems and and we were talking about our age reversal ex prise and I still believe that there's a there there yeah oh I mean if you took here's the thing if if you took everything that Sinclair is doing all the studies and so on and you just had a lab um so first of all the first thing you need is the ultimate longevity um predictor or biomarker or whatever right and maybe that that literally could be Imaging and here's why is you know the most obvious thing you can do with machine learning with with faces is you can try and predict age and that's actually pretty good there's good algorithms out there because you've got lots of training dat we've l billions of photos of people where you know exactly their birth date and their age you have a smaller data set but still extent of folks who have passed away and if you take past photos of them you can actually predict their life expectancy from their face interesting so is anybody doing that right now um I want actually fun to study like that if no one SE I would love to do that with you okay because I think that that's really that's really great I know do you know Alex zankov um from inal medicine so I think Alex has done some work in that area but I think it's a really important element for sure so so let's because basically there obviously are millions of photos of people who have unfortunately passed away right you have that's very that's an incredibly solid data set for machine learning purposes because you've got an incredibly quantifiable endpoint right it's a current date it's no it's a no uh situation no situation right pull out the plastic surgery pull out the Kardashians and you're fine yeah right exactly but but even that is kind of interesting because given a large enough data set you could Quant ify how much younger that actually made you look if if it did right um and of course you if you given a large enough data set you could do for different ethnicities a big part of this will frankly just be assembling that data set um and so that's like the hard part I think more than running the algorithm right okay let's say you can do that now you could hold up your phone and it could tell you number of years to live okay that's depressing but but but here is the good part now you can do Delta Delta T where every single potential intervention from metformin to whatever right yes will if you know the reason that um you know the Picture of Dorian Gray you're familiar with that book yeah so it's like you know the portrait on the wall ages what you know this is something where people's eyes you know when people say oh you look healthy you look unhealthy there's there's a zillion things that are happening behind the scenes in somebody's appearance our our brains have been trained over over Millennia to understand that that's right and when someone loses weight or gets fit they're like wow you look younger and so on there's probably something real that's happening epigenetically or whatever right and uh so I think that um something basically imagine a magic mirror on the wall okay and it was an AI mirror and you know you have to figure out the data privacy stuff maybe there's a local server or what have okay and it will literally tell you um all kinds of stuff on your health just by Imaging for example do you see that thing this almost 10 years old where they could predict pulse from your uh from a video from FL from uh capillary flush on your face and such yeah exactly so PSE detction from motion or from the uh like slight flush in your face right and um this is something where you know I think where you can get with medical imaging from like the amazing high def cameras we've got and all the ml we've got I think is so far beyond where people think right so one of the reasons you don't have that is FDA has been holding that back all kinds of Medical Imaging stuff for example here's a rare story on this say essentially like why can't you just hold up your phone and like image some mole or something like that and immediately have a million examples from around the world that can Benchmark that was cancerous that was non-cancerous that should be totally free that should be totally available answer is FDA right and more generally the medical the medical establishment right because there for the longest time AI was able to read an EKG better than a cardiologist better than most they'll always be some guy who's like the expert expert expert and they'll say it's not better than the best and that's why they'll block it or and the association of cardiologists or the association of dermatologists or whatever don't want to lose their job all of a sudden they're being replaced by an algorithm I don't want this wait wait wait wait I've got a solution to that I've got a solution go for it so I actually do think a non-obvious factor that's going to change all of this is India okay why because India is coming online India has in a huge way in a huge huge huge way it is maybe the single most obviously underpriced thing in my view on this decade and I want to talk about India but I don't let me spefic relevance here basically India has a lot of so India has over the last 50 years actually built a reputation of having a lot of good doctors right something like I forget 10 20% or something of the doctors in the US are of Indian origin okay more if you include South Asian that's it's amazing it's amazing right okay and that's just like so now because of that um Indians also have done a lot in softer number three Tech unicorns and uh so it's totally and crucially domestically they've got a generic drug industry um where they don't actually abide by this artificial scarcity of Ip that can crank out generic drugs and that's like a huge thing they've got great chemists right so you and finally tele medicine has now finally been quasi legalized in the US there are various things and you've got folks like ukes Amani who's investing heavily into the entire medical area I mean massive amount of capital is going in that's right so you put all that together and you've got an aging population in the US and you've got price pressure and whatnot I think it's quite possible you start seeing tele medicine come in from India right oh for sure and maybe there's an indian-american doctor over here who's routing it okay and so they're like signing off within the system you have that like legal kind of thing and they're the ones who maybe they send it to an Indian service that has different regulations and that allows you to actually just automatically read this because that disruptive technology is something where this huge I mean one of the reasons you know the AMA and others they didn't want that many so-called fmgs foreign medical graduates to enter the us because it did bring price pressure down right now suddenly all those guys are online all of them are ambitious and they're seeking you know like so so there is something here where there's a giant Force there's s there's a Next Step there's a Next Step here which is you know in the interim before we have ai we have the crowd right and Indian Physicians and nurses and uh and software Engineers are the crowd eventually though I mean AI even today right now ai is likely better as a diagnostician than most Physicians and in the very near future you provide an AI the data the imagery the information I mean I found this out take a guess how more reliable is cheaper how well but they don't the average physician hasn't read any of the Articles published that day let alone right so how do you take a guess how many scientific Publications are don't Google are published per day oh it's easily easily a thousand uh it's it's probably it's it's more than that it's what it's like a few million articles a year it's probably about 3 4,000 right okay good good guess yes it's 4,900 uh it's 1.8 million articles per year in 28,000 journals and so it's like how many has your physician read that morning so it's like insane right and it might have been the Breakthrough that morning that's going to diagnose you or treat you but I want to go someplace else I want to Let's assume for a second that we are going to be able to extend the healthy human lifespan yep uh Harvard Oxford London School of Business did a study uh about a year year ago that said for every additional year you add uh $38 trillion to Global GDP oh wow amazing that's pretty good that's a great that's a great stat that's I wouldn't I wouldn't have dis it's just good to have a number there I mean like I don't know what the exact number is but it's that's high it's additional it's additional productivity right at the top of your game why do people retire they retire because you're tired or you're in pain yeah you know and if you feel great if you have the Aesthetics the energy the you know the bition you're going to go and keep going cuz you got all the contacts you're making the most dent in the universe that you can so $38 trillion um and here's my question implications so I have a conversation with Elon not too long ago and we're talking about longevity because that's what I'm focused on that's what make investments he goes I don't think people should live that long I'm like what he goes yeah I think people need to die to make room for new ideas to come in I I don't I understand it but I don't buy it well so so uh here's how I think you can square that Circle essentially what he's referring to is the whole concept of you know science advances one funeral at a time right if you've heard that and it may well have been that yeah and and I I actually do understand where that comes from if you think about the jocy in the US and how you have have you seen the graph of like the average age of you know um yeah legislators right yeah and so essentially you know the argument has been oh they're old they don't get it and and so on and so forth well two things first is if the life extension or more generally Health extension Health span a lot of people imagine somebody who's super annuated just living longer and longer really what you want let's let's define we're talking about we're not talking about living in a wheelchair slobbering we're talking about health span so you feel good you're thinking well you're moving well your cognition is you're 25 you're 25 or whatever for a long long period of time you heal better or even 55 or 60 for a long long time fine right exactly you're you're mobile you're indep dependent you're all the stuff right okay so uh if you have expanded Health span well first of all you won't be necessarily as said in your ways you have more of the plasticity of Youth or number one but I think the more fundamental thing is the frontier okay if you can reopen the frontier okay and uh you know I've thought about this a lot I've written about this in the book you know there's four you know possible places there is the frontier right the land and by the way when bology is speaking about the book he's talking about Network State yeah yes the network.com exactly right uh the frontier reopening the frontier is this crucial crucial thing um in a sense we you know you can talk about the land the internet the sea and space right and how advanced are these respective things so the land you have 8 billion people the internet now you have four billion people on the oceans here's an interesting stat do you know how many people are like at any one time on the high seas huh I'll take a guess five million it's sub that it's like if you include all the cruise ships and stuff together it's like at least the LA the stat I saw was like about a million right so all all the ships all the cargo ships and so about a million on the Seas at any one time and then how many people are in space International Space Station like 10 right Max Max Max right and I think who knows what that is now with Russia and the US fighting you know like whatever right so of those Frontiers right space is the one that everybody talks about the final frontier and that's important but it's the least mature of these right conversely the land is so mature that it's difficult to build on it directly and so the big part of what I talk about in the book is using the internet Frontier to open the others up right and the frontier how does that relate to this well if you have in in event you could do space travel or if you could even start new societies on Earth or on the sea using the internet now the fact that some gerontocracy controls an older thing doesn't matter because you can go and start a new one right yes this is this was always the case on the the meritocracy always mattered most on the frontier right if if I needed to get my horse shoed I didn't care how old or if the person was a woman or black or white or gray it was I needed my horse done right yes exactly that's right and I think you know like uh at its best Silicon Valley is or really what Silicon Valley was and what I think technology is now because I don't think Tech is I you know I don't think Silicon Valley is a metonym for technology anymore it's not focus in one spot um it's intrinsically Global you have you know Indians and Chinese people and you know Eastern Europeans and Brazilians all working together on on something right and um you know like something like CLE it's a Nigerian founder that everybody in in Tech uses right so that's actually not in a Kumbaya We Are the World kind of thing but that is like the potential of capital and software and Tech to to put people together mocracy the the best idea comes forward independent of where it came from right I don't know who founded this I just know it works really well that's right that's right and and you know this is something um well so coming back basically that Frontier is I think the answer to the uh you know science advances one funeral at a time science also advances one Frontier at a time it was the new world right it was um you know obviously space and so on well the American West in in was a incredible uh Frontier for railroads and steam engines everything yes or not sees but railroads and other things yes so my question is is Extreme longevity good or bad for Humanity I think it's unbalanced good uh I think that basically for example we're not going to be able to easily colonize other planets um and and terraform them on the time scales there without you know probably changing our biological substrate right like many of those you know you could imagine something where the to humans the highly inhospitable atmosphere of some other planet wouldn't work but to I don't know a human who can metabolize sulfur and breathe sulfur you know maybe maybe it's totally fine yay you know have a great time and there's go ahead no I agreed I mean I I think at the end of the day uh we're heading towards a world of increasing abundance where AI robotics capability are going to help us meet our needs and how we live our lives is going to be an adventure in cyberspace it's going to be uh entertainment it's going to be uh exploration it's not going to be slaving to get food Water Shelter Health Care um so I don't know about you but uh I think it's becoming more exciting and I want to see as much of the future as I can yeah absolutely I mean in a sense it's it's interesting because um what happens next right that's something you know someone's like you know I wish you know you're you know my grandfather or great grandfather was around to see this you know like wow how how things would have worked out you know how insane that is right the other by the way the other sort of practical immortality thing that I think is working today I mentioned genomic Resurrection the other one is actually and this is been depicted in a dystopian way in her or Black Mirror but I think AI immortality is now feasible in the sense of if you took all of your audio and video recordings over your life right that is something where you could have a maybe it's not gpt3 maybe it's gpt7 or something like that you could have something that could speak in your voice that could basically be what you would say spin spin up a version of yourself I so I did this I built I built uh uh I trained up a neural net uh based on all my blogs all my books uh uh it's a engine called future scope and it searches the world's news for uh things you like for things I would like so in particular there's two there two there two versions of it futur loop.com and Longevity insider. org um longevity ins.org is got all my blogs and books in longevity uh futur loop.com is everything I've written about uh AI robotics 3D printing synthetic biology arvr and blockchain um and it searches looking for positive-minded non- dystopian convergent Technologies on these things based upon what I look and it generates the top 10 articles if I could search all the world's and journals every year every day it finds those articles for me and delivers them to me so there's a little mini Peter I call it virtual Peter searching the world for this information and delivering it to me but at the end can I upload my brain and have some AI on the cloud say hey Peter it's Peter I'm here you can kill yourself now you know oh boy I don't I don't think I want to do that well yeah I mean the thing is there are many possible Futures on this kind of thing and um you know one thing that people always get back to is is it does it have to be your own Consciousness or can be a clone of you in some way or what have you right but uh you know to bring it back to the Brass TX stuff right on on longevity um I think people are unaware of just how much progress that's why I showed that like you know anti-ra photo right or the super soldier serum photo I think people are unaware of how feasible it might be to do this in our own bodies and actually just like the the longevity biomarker thing where you kind of take an image of someone's face and you predict how many years they have to live right um I think having something uh which was just a clip show of 100 videos or graphs ideally it's it's videos or images because a graph you know is more abstract right but that actually shows an animal that looks younger right that shows an experiment where hair pigmentation has being reversed muscle has come back you know people look younger I think a collection like that would do more than a thousand papers for suspending disbelief this is actually possible uh that's I think useful another important thing to kind of poke at I I I I agree I call this a longevity mindset and the question is can I train so we our brains are are are neural Nets and we train them by giving them example after example after example and can I create a longevity mindset for myself by showing myself that's why I built longevity insider. org to give me those examples every day to see that this is coming so I believe that it's coming and I therefore take better care of myself and invest in those areas um yeah I I I think I think we're going to see more and more evidence all the time and and uh you know you and I talked about this $100 million longevity age reversal x prise uh yes which I'm excited to talk to you more about a different time hey everybody I hope you're enjoying this episode want to tell you about something I've been doing for years every quarter or so having a fotus has come to my home to draw Bloods to understand what's going on inside my body and it was a challenge to get all the right blood draws and all the right tests done so I ended up co-founding a company that sends a fonus to my home to measure 40 different biomarkers every quarter put them up on a dashboard so I can see what's in range what's out of range and then get the right supplements medicines peptides hormones to optimize my health it's something that I want for all my friends in family and I'd love it for you if you're interested go to myli force.com back/ Peter to learn more let's get back to the episode let's take the conversation into a subject I care about which is innovation and moonshots so uh I don't think there are enough entrepreneurs working on the world's most important problems how do you feel about that do you agree um yes uh I think though that it's a multi-sited market and what I mean that right you know like the concept like a two- ceter market like uber is the Riders and drivers right so it's a multier market where it's uh there's obviously the founders and the funders okay but I think actually an underappreciated thing are the um writers and the policy makers because you know the writers and that's like the you know specific people who are writing text more more generally the screenwriters for the world right the folks who are basically screenwriting the media the content and so on out there those influence the policy makers and they can move a switch that makes a new kind of founder even possible yeah MH and for for example uh very famous example nsf's acceptable use policy in 19 pre 1991 as you may remember the internet was just an academic and Military Network and Commercial traffic was actually not allowed because it was going to cause malware and right porn and scams and they were all totally right about that but when they when enough you know folks pushed on enough policy makers to flip the switch to just allow that to happen to allow Commerce on the internet enormous amounts of Founders and funders flocked in and then this entire Frontier got populated right so it's often like one policy switch that is often not thought of as being that important that just unlocks the whole kind of thing right and then media is Upstream of that policy switch because it is it's making the moral case for why this is better to do rather than not do and so to your point I actually wrote this article called uh the purpose of Technology I've got it here in the in the chat and when you think of it as a multi-sided market the founders are sometimes not the the first mover they're sometimes the last mover other folks have to sort of prepare the environment such that a new kind of founder is possible for example Yom I mentioned NSF up another example is why combinator made you know stripe and Airbnb and Dropbox feasible because it said guess guess what you don't have to be 30-some to raise VC you can just come and start the the you know the water's warm this is something you can feasibly do right and crazy crazy ideas welcome crazy ideas welcome and you know the thing is I mean if we like one thing I'm actually Amazed by in retrospect if you think about how like what Gates and jobs did before the internet before that information was out there to make the moves that they did in the 70s it's actually insane to think how did they build the Sal team how you know there there was there's like no guidance of any kind right they just had to figure it all out from scratch and just scale a cliff face at you know whatever youthful age it's actually bananas that they were able to do that maybe there are other things at that time that they could rely on but they didn't have the internet and all this information didn't have stack over flow to debug didn't have all this entrepreneurship advice they had nothing they had to invent all of that right it's crazy but once that became more of a process it smoothed it out a third example is just the fact you know of of the US for example in the 1800s all of this terrain out west uh was something that a new kind of founder was possible you know basically someone who'd go out there and found a new community um of course you know like there battles between the you know the US state and the you know American Indians and so on um but the the the very concept that one could actually go and do that uh was was not something that was there before and uh you know this is something where you know I talk about this in the book like you know some people will say oh my God that was you know so terrible and so on and it's like there were actually a bunch of Wars between different Indian tribes and so on before the you know the the westerners came in and this was it was not a peaceful existence it was not a peaceful existence it was like tribes n plus1 and n plus2 and n plus3 coming in and had the American Indians um Native Americans had you know sufficient technology Oceanic navigation there's there's you know Harry chov and others have written alternate histories of how they would colonize Europe right just like the Mongols when they had you know advanced technology you know over the Europeans kind of came into Europe just like you know various uh um Arab civilizations they took Andalusia and what have you so that's not something which is like good or bad I just say that because people like oh my God you know you know like the the US expansion like imperialism yes yeah if the new Americans had had the technology they would have expanded and because you know they human nature yeah that's right so so leaving that part aside just to answer that for a bit this this Politico economic climate allowed a new kind of founder and uh you know what now another example is something which is sort of a Founder driven thing is Alon showed that space Innovation is actually possible okay like literally nobody thought of space as something that you could feasibly do in the 2000s like you're going to compete with NASA good luck right that was well I mean that was that was my focus for that decade right with the with the original exerprise so this is my question there are areas in the world today uh and these are the basics uh increasing access to food right we are postco their the world food program is is being slayed to try and Supply I mean there's more people starving in so many different ways access to fertilizer access to Water Shelter Health Care all of these things and for me listen I'm a techno Optimist I fully agree I'm not going to solve it with policy and the world's not going to become smarter over night I'm going to solve this with technology I'm going to De dematerialize demonetize and democratize stuff and make more food water energy available so I am on a mission to try and get entrepreneurs to focus on these things right I say the world's biggest problems or the world's biggest business opportunities want to become a billionaire help a billion people so I'm just curious how would you drive innovation in area I'm using prizes but are there other elements that will create the right situation where entrepreneurs are focusing in and importantly as well capital is coming in is there any kind of a role role for for venture capital for uplifting Humanity for like you know uh making the world a better place so to speak yeah I mean the thing is I think VC has to get into I mean it is kind of already there but um content why because basically uh just talk about this for a second the current media media is Upstream of all of this stuff right media is the software that Scripts of Minds just like code is what scripts of machines and so or or scripts of Minds in a negative way as well as a positive way correct that's right and so all of these Visions we have of the future are typically dystopian Black Mirror and what we want is not utopian but positive bright Sun you want a bright Sun rather than a black mirror and there's so many structural things that go into this I talk about this in in the purpose of Technology article but I'll give a few um please the the first is the fundamental incentives have to be changed because right now traditional media is about page views Prestige Andor profit and that seems like so obvious how' you ever get away from that but page views mean you're attracting the most number of viewers right you're optimizing for a mass audience Prestige means you're trying to impress the kind of people who hand up pulitzers and profit is very much short-term profit where if it bleeds it leads and you're just trying to juice the numbers and it's often you know something where you're incentivized to make it much more Sensational or what have you right do you do you know what CNN stands for uh go ahead Cable News Network no what is it yeah no the crisis News Network crisis News Network exactly or or the constantly negative News Network yeah you know the summer of sharks or whatever right whatever it is they're going to you know add some spice to it it's literally do you many people do you people sharks kill every year on the average I don't know it's like 10 or something less than that seven seven seven yeah it's on that order right exactly and so it's something where huge problems are not included and small problems are magnified because it's not a dashboard it's not a numerical dashboard word it's a verbal thing right like a like a CEO does not manage their company by anecdote you know I mean the qualitative can be helpful don't get me wrong but you also have the quantitative and the quantitative is almost completely missing from many of these things you don't have like you don't have a dashboard that's showing the tracking of certain problems over time people don't have a sense of the relative magnitude of let's say I don't know meth addiction versus shark attacks it might occupy similar space in their heads right okay so so basically how would you get away from this page use Prestige and profit well if you start with not trying to write content for the most but for the best okay so you're writing an article which is meant to attract the next Zuck all right and or the next vitalic or what have you and uh so you're not writing it for just millions of people to understand it necessarily you're writing it you're also not writing it in a sick fantic PR way it's a third way where you're describing a problem and the issues you're not attacking people necessarily you're saying here's a potential constructive solution and if you're building something here just like we were just doing where we said you know we want to improve longevity here's the things that are out there I think a critical thing would be something that estimates age from face here's a link at the bottom we'll fund you okay so you have content which is investable content right we have the credible capital and so on to do that somebody comes we fund them we see if it works right and we may we may take the best of 10 or best of 100 this is the the XF fund rather than x prize kind of model very similar right okay you put a like sort of a pilot light and then you have folks swim to that right or a magnet um so that is the best r than the most so you're not doing page views per se you're doing that one person that comes that makes you $10 million rather than 10 million views Prestige uh rather than going for what is considered important by consensus today you're going for what is considered important by like societal consensus in 10 years the the contrarian thing for example Peter you know teal is known for for um it's actually overstated because it's not meant to be contrarian forever it's meant to be contrarian today make a non-consensus decision and then it's proven consensus in five or 10 or 15 years if you're always non-consensus you haven't won only once right you're an outlier yes yeah so it's temporary contrarian right you are essentially somebody who is giving something here where you think it's underpriced and then it's going to come to its you know its high high bar right yeah the way the way I describe that is the day before something is truly a breakthrough it's a crazy idea right but it will eventually be a breakthrough that's right and and of course there's some crazy ideas that me crazy ERS and we are the ones I think who can maybe hopefully parse through that if you have some technical background you can parse it okay and then the third is profit rather than the shortterm profit of you know there's a war or a famine or something you have the long-term patient profit of in 10 years this problem is actually solved rather than have a lot of you know like traffic around you know exaggerating a problem right and so that's a different model that is the quote VC model of content right where you put out a proposal you attract the best not the most you um you you're proven right but over the long term rather than the shortterm and you make money over the longterm rather than the short term and that can fund an enormous amount of content that can fund movies I believe that can fund an entire parallel content industry that is positive sum as opposed to negative sum and sensationalist right it's interesting your your previous company um a16z is is heading towards a media play as well right they just yeah they've got future.com and so on yeah um and I think this is uh this is something where um we're going to see several different efforts on this we've seen you know kind of tech substacks like my book is kind of another version right so we've got newsletters podcasts books uh I think the next level is we want to do movies video games all this stuff and you make them quote free to play and you're not monetizing in game you're not monetizing you know in the movie for example think about the social network movie you know the one from 201 right okay so that was an interesting movie because um even though sorin uh sort of tried to make Zuck look bad in the movie he still he couldn't help but showed the nian aspect of it right like how incredible it was to build something from nothing to something being sued by all these people at the same time and so on right and you know I'm not taking any sides in any of that you know like like all those folks have all settled or whatever right but the point basically being that um there was something heroic about that and that did inspire you know it's a flawed hero okay fine in the movie but it's heroic nevertheless and inspired a lot of people do welcome to the human race welcome to the human race that's right and uh you know and of course the movie was highly fictionalized and Zuck himself is disputed many of the characterizations of it um and I think he's he's probably right about that but point being that uh if you look at Box Office Mojo do you know how much that movie made uh no I I'll guess um $2 and5 billion dollars no much less than that okay how much um worldwide grows 220 220 okay right that's obviously it's pretty good right but it's actually in my view it's a fraction if if that movie had been free and if there had been something which and like even just that movie right and forget the better version for a second and there' be a fund that had funded it and then there was a call to action Link at the end which was we will fund your startup if you're inspired by this movie easily would have generated more than 220 million you know how many startups were inspired by The Social Network like absolutely insane number of things over the last so these are these are business model changes for sure right which is where the most interesting stuff is happening right now that's right and the reason these are important is it's true yes it changes the economics but it also changes the alignment and the incentives now you imagine okay uh you know for example there's another movie called the founder about the founder of McDonald's have you ever seen that I have yes okay it's quite good right and so there's relatively small and then there's one which is like um gosh it's about the uh yeah Joy right um that's like you know uh also quite good right about um you know so Joy or the founder or The Social Network there's actually a lot of drama involved in building any large business actually very difficult from the beginning there's a lot of risk and stuff right a bunch a bunch of the recent you know the fictionalization of of uber and uh and we work all been hostile yeah yeah they've been hostile and it's it's the uh but it's still it's a fact fascinating Journey exactly so well you know the thing is I've I've uh resisted watching some of these recent ones simply because it's just like all right another thing which are you know I mean like the US media calling other people frauds is actually kind of bananas after Walter Durant and Edgar snow and uh you know John Reed and all these guys right but but you know coming back you know these are all the guys who like enabled various communist dictators covered up famines right but I agree with coming back to if you were going to drive so again my my feel like my ability to impact the world is to inspire entrepreneurs to make a change right the ability entrepreneurs are individuals who find a great problem and solve it the more entrepreneurs solving problems the better the world is and focusing them on the problems that create wealth like the biggest problems are the biggest business opportunities but also are uplifting Humanity because a world in which a mom knows her kids have access to the best ED education and Healthcare food water energy is a more peaceful world and I want to know do you do you think about that do you think about that cuz you have a voice to influence individuals yeah and and you're and and the network state in part is is about driving Innovation but do you think about directing innovation in a way that's making the world better and I want to I want and so what's your what's your message to those entrepreneurs listening uh because I the excuse me to all the people who build photo sharing apps out there but my my my comment is you know do something that makes the world a better place and don't build another photo sharing app it's I use photo sharing apps I like them I'm just trying to say I don't need another one right right right so so it's It's tricky because um Let me let me give a partial completely understand your critique of photo sharing apps let me give a partial defense of them right and and that's okay but can we focus on we focus can we focus on the on the what you would do to focus people I will let's let's assume there is a defense I agree there is a defense but I'll give it a counter defense counter defense is photo sharing apps and things of that nature are building a remote Society where people are now able to disconnect from the land around them that builds Cloud communities that can eventually shape regulation on the earth this is how bits unlock innovation in atoms okay so and and the speed of innovation and permissionless Innovation all of those things you you have to you have to essentially build enough moral strength in the cloud to like descend like lightning bolt and then clear the underbrush so that people can build there like you have to actually build that community of like mind that can have enough policy influence to just move the laws out of the way and allow Founders to found and photo sharing apps are actually along that Continuum this is something I talk about in the network State book right it's not just photo sharing apps obviously it's slack and it's zoom and it's it's this it's the Riverside stuff it's remote right okay so um I I think of what they're doing as actually a useful precursor for what is fundamentally important which is the end of in atoms right without thinking about it they've actually built a subunit that helps us get towards that because theyve Built This Cloud community that can reshape the land okay now to innovation in atams um the the fundamental prerequisite is actually in my view not necessarily technological it is moral um that is we just have to convince enough people of the moral rightness of what we're doing you know you know that thing where people will attack Tech Guys they'll say uh oh you you you thought so much about whether you you could you didn't think about whether you should oh right you know that that thing from the flip side of that is if there's a will there's a way okay if we can convince people for example that um longevity is the most important thing that you can work on that universal healthcare is not enough that we need eternal life right um that's not just enough to share to move some mashed potatoes around the plate for like you know like to get plus two years but you actually need to like really solve the problem rather than pretend to solve the problem right getting that degree of moral alignment of even a thousand like really really intense zealous activists then the market will exist because the policies the laws are moved out of the way and so you've cleared the underbrush and is now feasible to build that's how I kind of think about it actually you know we have a century of innovation and biom medicine that with the right Zone would just the right special economic zone like essentially a post FDA Zone not a regulation free zone people always think I say regulation free what I mean is actually something that is to the FDA what Bitcoin was to the Fed a better replacement a better reviewer something with as we talked about earlier better type one and type two okay without the without the biases that that unfortunately restrict Innovation that uh is is how can I put it uh you don't want to become you don't want to dis if you're the expert in a field you don't want that field disrupted since you're no longer the expert in it right exactly how do you build a cloud regulator that is better than these land Regulators that can use information from millions of people around the world to get a better type one and type two decision or rather sorry lower type 1 and type two error rates a better binary classifier for for approving things okay so if you have these various special economic zones or call them special Innovation zones because they're more about regulation than taxes per se okay if you have these different zones we would like I actually don't think Tech is a barrier you know the Banting and Best I mentioned them earlier are you familiar with that example right basically Banting and Best 19 you know early 1920s they um they had the idea for insulin supplementation and uh you once they had the the concept they did experiments on dogs it seemed to work then they did experiments on themselves didn't seem to cause big issues then they had volunteer patients and people were like jumping out of bed whoa this is actually working once they had that data then within two years Eli Lily had scale production for the entire North American continent and they'd won a Nobel Prize that was when Pharma moved at the speed of software when it was willing doctor willing patient Banting and Best in Canada there's hospitals named after them they're Noble laurates okay they're not like Fly by Night shows remember the seen and unseen that you talked about earlier right this shows what is unseen the biomedical Innovation we could have you know I put it like this could be us but you regulating okay you know like this could be us but you playing whatever it's like an online meme um and uh right so this could be us but you're regulating we could all be super fit we could be you know we could have longer life uh all kinds of diseases could be cured if we could somehow unlock this pent up you know because all this stuff is in is in research you constantly hear Stanford scientists discover Harvard scientists do this all the stuff you see and it's this giant wall that we could just unlock and just give it some more kind of Flesh on the bone some more you know examples that might might make that more credible in 2010 it turned out that it was taxi and hotel regulations that were holding back hundreds of billions of dollars in value okay who would have thought that was actually the big thing but that's Uber that's Airbnb that's abroad that's grab and gojack and DD and so on right um that's lift and then it turned out that it was the financial regulations SEC cftc you know Etc that were holding back trillions of dollars in crypto and web3 okay and so the FDA and the entire us medical establishment is holding back tens of trillions of dollars the reason I say dollars is it's at least a quantifiable metric it frankly understates the the the value that we're talking about yeah because we have we have lives at stake we have time at stake here right which is almost yeah you got it that's right so listen I want to I'm going to I want to hit on three conversations uh before I overstay my welcome here sure sure sure uh and they're and they're important for me to think about liting the lightning ground yes so there a question I ask everybody in this podcast if I were to say listen bology I'm going to fund any X prise you want we're going to launch it we're going to run it uh we're going to get the world to focus on it what is an xprize challenge what is something that should exist that doesn't exist that we should challenge the world to do or challenge world to fix do you have any ideas what would you want to launch so a very simple one um and I'll put more thought into this but one that I think would have immediate benefit is the um the longevity predictor phone app right very simple remember the photo sharing stuff we talked about it's actually on a Continuum with this y it is it's a it's a priz yeah it's a totally totally priz thing where're basically you hold up the thing and it estimates your current age and it predicts how many years you have to live and then it says here's all the interventions you can do to boost that I think that' be so that would solve several different things first is it's core science right the algorithm should be open source the data set is the hardest part you need those photos of people who have passed away okay um so you get that data set like you know clip for example was a very important thing often in machine learning it's getting the data set together that's a hard part more than the um the actual you know training of the algorithm so the hard part the prize would come for the the data set which is the less sexy part okay that's totally open right so once you've got that once you've got lots of photos of people with very good birth date data photo death date and maybe a lot of photos through their life so you've got endpoints right Facebook frankly has a GI Facebook itself could probably do this because now that it's almost 20 years old it's got a lot of photos of people who have passed away they're like later in life okay but and of course there's going to be some where they died of an accident or something like that you might you might filter that out right but if they died from old age okay so that that alone has many different qualities it's it's it's something which is incredibly quantitative right totally you know deterministic how many days right it is um something which you can put in an app and package in a way that people instantly understand they hold up the phone they see it it will go viral it will stimulate you can have it have lots of Education in there which is get met Foreman get this get that Etc okay and uh and then it's just that thing alone becomes a jumping off point for longevity distribution it's also it's also potentially a good business to do it's good business that's right but that's a different someone doing this then get in touch with me and Peter on Twitter if you're listening to this podcast we will we will probably fund this if if you're interested in this or we can do a prize for it something like that yeah absolutely what's another area that you care deeply about that you might want to launch a prize and I'm not ask I'm not I'm not pitching on launching a prize I'm just trying to yeah it's it's like you know sometimes a great idea is more valuable than the than the cash okay so investigative journalism on the American regulatory State okay why this is actually Upstream of lots and lots of stuff to an extent that people don't get um essentially um the you know for example most people cannot even name somebody at the department of the Interior or you know uh the the FDA right and uh and yet you can name all the people who run giant tech companies right and so there isn't a face there isn't there are people who are making decisions here there's something called harmonization regulatory harmonization is the single most important problem to solve in technology in my view what is harmonization it is the process by which unelected and unfireable and Anonymous us Regulators impose driving everything yeah they they choke off regulation for the entire world and the way to think about it is just like a small company might use Facebook login rather than implementing login themselves a small country okay um might Outsource their regulation to the US they've got 10 million people in you know the Czech Republic or something like that well and and and they they do that many of The Many Nations follow the FDA the faa's guidance yes and this is the alliance of actually it's it is you know quote big government but it's also big Pharma why it makes sense if you're a businessman because you spend all this effort getting an FDA approval right and then you don't want to get a zillion other approvals from all these other countries around the world with their own pikun regulations instead what you want is one approval one bar to clear and then you've got a common market worldwide right so that puts both the FDA and the lobbyists from Pharma on the same side in all these countries pushing to standardize and harmonize and so on and you know the thing is that there's probably some point where that's like you can argue that was net good um where it's something like uh you know the the whole Romance of the Three Kingdoms thing the Empire long divided must unite long United must divide there's something good to like a global scalable uniform thing that's what the App Store is that's what Google Play is and then you bring it back bring it back to the bring it back to the idea on of of on The Regulators here right so the prize would be um which is different than your normal thing because it's not for technological innovation it's for essentially the thing that's Upstream of that would be uh like the P surprise except it is for examples of regulatory abuse so we're incentivizing reporters to dig deep and find basically there's a watchdog prize on Regulators yes because just to put put more you know like flesh in the bones here more more detail um Regulators have something called the Douglas factors which are like Miranda rights or federal employees they basically can't be fired except if they bring the agency into disrepute and what that means is anybody who's you know if you try to fire someone and you're within a regulatory agency they don't get fired they start they start appealing they're in the corner there they're waiting you know they're telling everybody oh my God you're so bad for trying to fire me it's this huge process uh and so so essentially these folks can't be fired they have tenure okay um career tenure they're Anonymous the the US media is not going after them or you know holding them accountable quote unquote and they exer enormous power over the entire world and most citizens you know somebody in the Czech Republic doesn't even realize often that they're actually under the control of somebody in Silver Spring Maryland right this is why for example with the vaccines like we could have had the covid vaccine within days madna you know could have Tak the sequence and turn into a vaccine and we could have had challenge trials where healthy people could have volunteered to go and be exposed to the virus after first get the vaccine and then in a monitor environment be exposed to the virus and see what happened what bi is talking about here is that when and when the virus was was uh The Cypher was sequenced and sent from uh W Wuhan uh to labs around the world 24 hours later madna had basically an mRNA vaccine designed yes and and a challenge trial is the way you get very rapid data where instead of just you know you you're basically going to give people the vaccine you're going to expose them and if it protected them you know pretty instantly whether it works or not that's exactly right and so the thing is that basically um you know here's the timeline I have genetic sequence of the coron virus on January 11th or the next two days they you know plot out a vaccine and then you could synthesize it for you know um so first madna shot uh for Te to NH for testing on febru 24th and volunteers arm March 16th you probably could have gotten it even faster with these challenge trials but here's the reason here's the interesting thing literally the world spent trillions of dollars on lockdown and all these insane things because they didn't have the moral Innovation upfront to challenge the fda's regulatory establishment right millions millions of people died trillions of dollars were destroyed because the Upstream thing that enough people did not distrust the fda's judgment that's the fundamental that's the prize of prizes right fundamentally there's been much more investigative journalism on on Theos there's multiple documentaries made on that but people you know people don't know about all the ridiculous abuses at FDA for example the the fact that just as another example during the pandemic they held back eua emergency use authorizations for testing which meant that people didn't know the extent of the pandemic since there there wasn't any testing and actually folks in Seattle I believe had to like do Civil Disobedience and had their lab go and test for Co to show that it was actually on the loose in the US and uh that was some where they disobeyed the FDA and they could have like you know the FDA is the regulatory police they could have been thrown in jail for this okay so this is the this is similar to nsfa up delegitimize the FDA right there's so there's actually if you want um a whole set of stuff right this is a this is a deep Rabbit Hole to talk about but so true it and and so getting back to your prize idea this is about a watchdog for regulatory abuse like pure prize it's a different kind of PR pure prize right so it is I like I like the actual I like the prize of uh of more rapid vaccin uh vaccine development as well that's right and there's some of these things for example where we have some of the threads that we talked about right like you know this is 10 years old and this has like dozens and dozens and dozens of examples from across the regulatory state right if you just scroll through this okay um and by the way I even talk about the photo sharing stuff in from 10 years ago so nhtsa nhtsa ban on self-driving cars the harassment of uber and Tesla like you know car dealerships couldn't sell direct um John carac talking about his experience with like armadillo Aerospace um uh you know the uh like how pe.org um had to like kind of you know fight for Airbnb drone startups in the FAA like you just go through this and if you scroll down a little bit further I'll show you a crazy example from FDA um going on like I don't know a few more pages uh on to page um page seven right that's a screenshot from a lawsuit which the FDA filed in 2010 right taking the position those are this is their own lawsuit that they wrote all the texts for there's no right to consume or feed children any particular food there is no generalized right to bodally and physical health there's no fundamental right to freedom of contract meaning you are a slave of the FDA you cannot feed your I mean just think about this stuff it's like completely orwellian stuff right it's insane it's insane this is their official position you don't I mean the the way that's marketed to the public is they're protecting you from the big bad drug companies in actuality they take a very strong position that you have no control over your own human body with the extion well you don't you don't know enough to have control they know better that's right literally they they say the narrow substantive due process precedence regarding abortion intimate relations and the refusal of life-saving medical treatment meaning um the only things that they consider you to have your right over is abortion euthanasia and uh like you know intimate relations right but but Bas but that's it right so it's not actually your body your choice for everything else right they've literally taken the position that you do not have that you don't even have the right to obtain whatever food you want right well this goes back to original conversation about a you know accredited patient that I should have the right to take whatever meds I want whether or not their FDA approved or not uh here's the thing a relatively small amount of money here I mean you know writing is not that expensive calling people is not that expensive you know journalists quote unquote are not paid that much right like you know for a relatively small amount of money you could shine a light on something that people are just totally unaware of right these are these are terrible decisions that are being made totally out of the public eyesight by folks who are completely unaccountable who can't be fired who can't be who aren't subject to El election who the current media isn't going after and who have control over all these people around the world that have no say in American elections right and it's just easier to keep things the way they are and unfortunately the laws are all written for the incumbents that are funding everything that's right and and so to be absolutely clear as I mentioned earlier like Pharma and you know biotech has been corrupted in my view by FDA and is now like a fusion like this Unholy Fusion I do think of FDA as being Upstream normally the public portrayal is that regulatory capture is that the big bad Farm is Upstream of the state it's actually the other way around because the state has the guns and can bankrupt any Pharma company at any time right but it is true that there is an Unholy fusion um and what you need is something from outside the system that you know can actually go and and shine a light on this right it's a different kind of x prise a pulser prize kind of thing for showing the abuses of the American regulatory State and having them in short 140c clips that you can put online along with a substantive article that a companies it if you did a 100 of those on FDA it would change the world it' probably be less than a few million dollars that's awesome all right my second question for you uh I posit that mindset is the single most important thing that an entrepreneur has more important than their Capital their friends their technology the right mindset is the distinguishing factor between someone who succeeds over and over and over again like you have what mindset you think has made you most successful well that's a great question um what mindset something limited to one you know I think about an abundance mindset a curiosity mindset uh an exponential mindset seeing where the world is going uh a moonshot mindset maybe these ring a bell for you maybe of one that you think but what mindsets do you have that you think distinguish you and have been have served you in your successes so do you know the concept of the bamal mind please tell me sure so this is a hypothesis from the past you know where evidently um people had like a two two voices in their heads like um it's a hypothesis that the human mind once operate in a state where there was one part of the brain was speaking and second part was just listens and this is how people like actually thought they heard voices from God or whatever right okay so uh just to take that phrase and just use it somewhat differently I think you don't need just one mindset you need a bamal or multical mindset I agree with that by the way right and and why why do I why do I say that because um so maybe the most trivial way of saying this is not original to me is you to be your own biggest booster and your own harshest critic right and that's true because you know no one else is going to have as much information as you and so they're not going to be able to take apart the engine block and be really critical but also nobody else is going to cheer lead for you like you can and it's like the you know the hill quote right um if someone similar to the hill quote which is um if I am not for myself who will be for me if I'm only for myself who am I right that's a little bit different because it's like you know individualism versus collectivism but at least the first part of that is if you are not for yourself who will you be okay how does that relate here I think that um you have to at least for me what's worked is on the one hand I think I generally go into things with they um so I've maybe got four mindsets you know in in uh in India they call it Sadam okay and what does that mean it's like uh roughly and this is a paraphrase and some people will disagree this paraphrase but it is you start with a smile and you're trying to figure out how you can do things in a win-win fashion right if that doesn't work you go to rational argument right it's charts it's graphs it's like this is actually feasible etc etc right if that doesn't work you have to get political and you go to economic incentives or political incentives you might have to go around a particular obstacle or whatever and if that doesn't work well then you just need the Grim determination of just like plowing through right and uh so those are like the four mindsets of which the last is by far the least frequent you always start with positivity then rationality then maybe you have to get political or economic and then Grim determination as like the last step if it's a truly you know irreconcilable obstacle yeah and so that's like four mindsets you know quadram quadri Camal mind right um now all of that though is you know maybe there's that fifth which is what is the goal in the first place and that's I think where you have to it's a combination of both moral and logical reasoning you have to be that idog first you have that North Star that you're working towards and everything at least that I'm doing in my life Works towards that North Star um and for me longevity is pretty important um but actually even longevity is a subroutine towards an ultimate goal you know what that is what is that the prime number maze have we talked about that we haven't yet is this sort of a a life's purpose yeah well so uh this is I think I think it's Chomsky I maybe misting this but the concept is and it might be apocryphal but I I like it at least as a thought experiment a rat can be told to navigate a maze every second turn every third turn Etc okay but it cannot be taught to get out of a prime number maze that's too abstract 2 three 5 S and you skip nine you do 11 and so that's too abstract for a rat to navigate it's not smart enough in fact most humans probably couldn't find their way out of a prime number maze it's actually pretty abstract yeah and it depends how many turns you have to make depends how many turns you have to make right but it's actually like and if you have and do you have a calculator with you yeah do you have a calculator Etc right but um you know the uh the thing about a prime number maze is it's on the one hand it's a great mental model because it's such a simple pattern but also so far it's so close and yet so far right and so the structure of our reality is it is there some shimmering order in front of us that is the equivalent of a prime number maze why live longer so that I can understand that right so I can understand the structure of the universe so I can get smarter with AI or whatever to be able to understand that prime number maze that's the kind of purpose that's the kind of thing that drives me I love that uh I I love that a lot and um uh yeah well you know if we had a few more hours I'd dive into the conversation of are we living in a simulation uh 01 yes or no I think you can model things as being as if it's an simulation because physical law is so incredibly predictive I mean that the fact that physical laws exist and it's not random that you've got time and laws is amazing right um but you know this the weak form is physical the weak form of the simulation hypothesis um I know it is I'm asking your opinion yeah I I I guess I believe in the weak form in the sense of you can model reality as conforming to a simulation in the sense that physical laws do predict events I don't necessarily believe in I don't believe in the strong form which is therefore there is a simulator and we're all in a box and mine's in a box and so on and so forth I think that's too much of a jump right in case you're curious I think without question we're living in a simulation and it wouldn't change anything that I do dayto day um so it doesn't really matter I mean the the the challenge is does it you know you can you can you can choose whichever you want um but it's not going to change but that's not where I want to go and in our final number three in our lightning round here uh I want to go into a topic that I'm focused on and thinking about a lot which is philanthropy and I want to close on this cuz I think it's important uh there is so much Capital locked up uh you know trillions of dollars of wealth sort of sitting on the sideline and uh you know I talk about and I was just speaking at the Forbes 400 conference in New York and it's like you know you've got the giving Pledge on one end where people are giving their money half their money while they're alive to a philanthropy it's like you can't take it with you so I'm not sure the giving pledge is about anyway but how do we get people of means to use that Capital to really make a dent in the universe to really transform uh and and yeah I'm I I know a lot of wealthy people as do you and some of them like Elon or Martin Roth blat or even Mark Benny off Eric Schmidt are like uh are like reinvesting it and betting it all and taking big bets and and make the world forward and a lot of people are just uh unfortunately sitting on it and having it just earn more money for them and and uh I find that uh challenging at best your thoughts on that so I think the money should go towards starting new countries reopening the frontier longevity um you know all all of all of this kind of stuff that I talked about the network book and agree broadly reopening the frontier and I actually think that that's also probably the wealth maximizing thing not simply the human flourishing optimizing thing because you know you're going to get 1% interest or something like that how are you going to get like how are you going to multiply a billion dollars well longevity is actually the kind of thing that could do that right that could get you a thousand billion dollars right yes and starting starting new country right starting new countries could get you a, x00 billion dollars there's very few things that you can think that could get you that much of a multiplier and a huge amount of money um and you know the 38 trillion fact that's a great that's a great number I'm going to go and look at that and dig into it but I wouldn't be surprised that it's of the order of trillions like for every extra year you could add so it's it's both the thing to do that I think is the right thing to do and the economically right thing to do we just need to make people it's it's a it's honestly it's raising awareness right it's making people aware that it's morally just morally imperative to do it if you believe in Universal healthare you believe in eternal life or you should right and if not there's something inconsistent in your world you might just want state power as opposed to actually wanting to solve the problem right so a b is that it's feasible to do so so first that it's desirable second that it's feasible third that it's profitable we've got all of those we just need to make that case um I'm curious starting a new country what about the immune reaction from uh the rest of the world so I think it's a great question and I think three or four things on that cuz I've thought about this a lot and we're going to put this into V2 of the book um the first is that uh something like this will have Advocates and and not and the reception to the book has been incredibly positive it like relative to 10 years ago when I put some of these same Concepts out there I've been kind of talking about this continuously for a while Patrick Friedman who you know worked on cting has as well you know there's a few people just like cryptocurrencies for a long time they sort of bounced around the bottom right they're you know if you go back there's chiai and ecash and there's guys who talked about in the '90s and there's stuff in the early 2000s it's kind of just just bounced around the bottom it didn't really have any traction and then Satoshi and then just kind of went exponential right I feel we're at that moment now um you know the network State and you know we haven't talked about it that much here but people can read about it at the network state.com um I've got a little movie uh you know at NAS Nas d i l y has something how to start a new country which has gotten millions of views over the last few days um and uh this concept of starting a new country is now actually feasible I think that it took a long time to go from capital G Google to lowercase Googling like as search it took a long time to go from capital u Uber to lowercase ubering you know traveling around it took like verbal verbal exactly becoming lowercase it took days weeks for the capital and network state to become lowercase Network state if you go to Twitter and you just put Network state in quotes it's out there it's got an injected into the bloodstream the concept is out there people understand that this is now something that's technologically feasible to basically Assemble a social network in the cloud to have at crowdfund territory around the world and to eventually gain diplomatic recognition I have proof points for each of those things including the last which is how far are we from that happening the first time when do you what's your under over prediction on this this is the goal for my next 10 years basically by 23 I think it is possible I'm not saying you know this is a thing where I think it's possible I'm not saying it's deterministic or anything like everything we have to try and it may not work but I think it took about 13 12 years from Bitcoin in 2009 to El Salvador recognizing Bitcoin as a national currency in 2021 okay I think that by 2032 2033 we could have the first diplomatically recognized Network state so about 10 years from now right and that's a goal that I want to shoot for and I think it's about the same time frame as the El Salvador recognition of Bitcoin as a national currency or Wyoming's recognition of ethereum as uh like something you can use to incorporate um company is in Wyoming now the the the so-called Dow law and that's my goal for the next 10 years is I mean not make a billion dollars but start one new country yeah I think that's that's beautiful and the beautiful thing about what you've outlined in your book and uh it's it's the networkstate decom thework.com with theth we might get a short URL at some point but go ahead yeah yeah uh uh and please go check it out when's the audible coming out uh next year um working on that now actually working on a huge refurbishing of the whole book and so on so a lot of great stuff will happen next year I I honestly do think of this version as a V1 but the V2 I think will be pretty pretty cool well the beautiful thing of course is uh the concept is uh can go exponential meaning there there's no limitation uh to the number of network states that can come into existence you know I've often said I you know you and I had this conversation I had I had a meeting years ago about how we would go go starting new country uh and it was less seasteading and less going into space it was more making buying a country uh but you have to defend that country sure right which is the biggest challenge in turning it into an ideal medical uh medical State um so I'm going to go back to the question of the first Network estate is created it's demonstrated number 2 345 and you know hundreds could come into existence very quickly yeah so by the way on the defense thing by the way just to quickly comment on that you know in the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 the um the reason that that happened as peacefully as it did is the tanks did not fire on yelton in Red Square why did they not fire they had the guns but the moral argument had been won the blue jeans and the rock and roll and cocacola images of that those Soviet tank commanders no longer felt they had moral legitimacy so they didn't pull the trigger okay and so that's really the way you know I think people really underestimate the power of moral legitimacy and moral delegitimization that's one of the major takeaways I'm taking from uh this conversation we had today is that the power of the moral argument yes both for entrepreneurs for investors for uh for anyone who wants to make change in the world that's right rather than for the sake of change having a clear moral argument for why this is important for for Humanity yes and this is implicit in what we do but we're so focused on true and false and profitable and unprofitable that we take the moral argument as implicit of course it's better to live longer of course but we actually need to focus on that as explicit and run tracking polls to show that we're winning with the key demographics of matter with policy makers with the public at large um with you know entrepreneurs and with folks in media and we don't necessarily we don't necessarily need to win 991 but we need to get it to at least 3070 or 5050 so that there's like a clearer case for this and because good bad is Upstream of true false and profitable and profit if someone argues something is bad you can't just go back and argue that it's true they'll say it's bad that it's true shut up right and you know or it's it's it's bad but it's profitable so you can't say oh like gambling or whatever is really good right you've lost a moral argument if you're doing it you're like well it makes money blah blah you're not you know if you can't win morally you can't win and so have to win morally first and this is just a new register for us to speak about but for example you don't just get the technology for self-driving cars to work you make little movies that talk about how many people died from preventable car deaths right you know and we can do this now with AI Video Hollywood is being disrupted it's being decentralized that's happening now that last Hammer lock that last fortification has fallen right sta Fusion is a world historical event because it means that anybody can now tell high quality stories persuasion has now been decentralized right so we tell the stories that show why it's imperative to have self- driv driving cars it causes less death why it's imperative to have the a successor to the FDA um that's a decentralized you know Tech forward version because of all the drugs that have been held back um why why we why we need this stuff and I think then we can win yeah it's it's a it's a beautiful thing last question I'm super curious organizing principle around the first Network state if you had a betting man if you were going to start uh and you probably will uh is there an organizing theme yes so the so at least for me and I'm I'm willing to build and the part the point of the network State book by the way is it's it's a toolbox not a Manifesto yes it's it's open open source for the world to follow suit that's right and in particular I want to build a large Coalition where there's lots of people who get their own network states and their own vision of the good there could be folks who have a Christian one or you know a Jewish one or uh they there could be a vegan and a carnivory one which are both incompatible with each other but potentially both improvements on the The Establishment right so there's you know there's folks who want catalonian Network States you know because they're in C you know Catalonia they want to speak their language there's folks who um you know that there all kinds of different things which they want right so I'm willing to build and want to build a large Coalition of millions maybe billions of people um what is my personal goal I want to get us to the you know to unlock all this biomedical Innovation right um how do we actually have all this stuff that could benefit Humanity that's being held back by the American regulatory State and by you know the big Pharma companies and biotech companies how do we actually unlock that and so that large Coalition is alignment where a lot of other people get what they want and then we get longevity and other things and we build essentially a political Coalition that enabl set count me in on your network State have you given it a name yet uh I have a name for it but I don't want to unwrap it just yet um we'll see we'll see the future is uncertain it may turn out that I end up you know catalyzing the formation of other network States um and you know versus driving one of my own I don't know yet um but I I do think that the first step was to establish the feasibility of starting a new country and we've done that that's actually the amazing thing that's amazing take them to me of the last three months you can see it on Twitter you put a network State this is a thing it's going to happen the internet doesn't stop it's not just starting new companies and new communities and new currencies we're going to start new countries and it's going to be easier to start a new country than to form the FDA just like it EAS it really is Greenfield operations to reinvent that which could be in order to get rid of the establishment which was uh is a beautiful place to go by the way it's going to be one of the it's it's adding an accelerant or an exponential to the exponential yes right yes that's right um and you know maybe we can unlock that all right I love that thank you for your time buddy where do people find you uh go to these days yeah the network state.com and and uh for me personally I'm at twitter.com BS b a l a j i s a pleasure my friend I look forward to continue the conversation on XF fund on longevity anyway thank you have a beautiful day thank you sir okay byebye see [Music] you

Channel: Peter H. Diamandis

Views: 11,910

Keywords: peter diamandis, longevity, xprize, abundance

Id: XF9ih3AnlrA

Length: 119min 16sec (7156 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 14 2022