Abiding in #Christ - Steve Gregg

I was asked if I would teach on the subject of abiding in Christ which by the way I had never ever prepared a teaching by that title before it's a great great subject of course I've talked about a body in Christ in different connections because it comes up especially in John's writing John is the one who uses this word abide a great deal the idea of being in Christ certainly is a Pauline concept largely and even it goes back to Jesus himself that people are in him but this idea abiding in Christ is a Johannine expression John is the one who uses it as writing okay all right so we're gonna you know for this for to study this concept we'll be looking at the Gospel of John especially and at the First Epistle of John and it's the First Epistle of John where you find it most often but look at John chapter 15 and that's where we'll start as far as I know I'm trying to think the Upper Room discourse where this passage appears is the first time as I recall that Jesus talked about being in him and Paul of course develops that theme in his writings quite a bit the idea of being in Jesus was not an option until the very end he began to talk about it because it's by the Holy Spirit being in us that Christ is in us Christ is in us because his Spirit is in us and and he hadn't given his spirit yet until he rose from the dead so in his earlier ministry he didn't talk about being in him but he did in the Upper Room discourse at the very end just before he was arrested he he spoke about giving the Holy Spirit and him being with them and them being in him and and so forth you find this language introduced first in the 14th chapter but the discourse continues through chapter 16 and in chapter 15 this is the context that we find the idea of abiding in him she said I am the vine and my father is the vine dresser every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away and every branch that bears fruit he prunes that it may bear more fruit you are already clean because of the words I've spoken out to you abide in me and I in you as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine neither can you unless you abide in me I am the vine you are the branches he who abides in me and I in him he bears much fruit for without me you can do nothing if anyone does not abide in me he is cast out as a branch and is withered and they gathered them and throw them into the fire and they are burned if you abide in me and my words abide in you you will ask what you desire and it shall be done for you by this my father is glorified that you bear much fruit so you will be my disciples and now I think that's as far as we'll go in this passage now here's where Jesus talks about the need to abide in him and you'll notice that where he talked about he uses that synonymously and I in you in verse 4 and then later on again he says if you abide in me or abide in me and I in you and then later in verse 7 he says if you abide in me and my words abide in you we're going to find that Jesus uses several different phrases kind of changeably abiding in Christ does involve him abiding in you so that you are in him and he is in you okay we're going to talk about those concepts in a moment but he also and John also in first John when he talks about these subjects talks about abiding in Jesus's Commandments or abiding in his word abiding in his love these are all things that that are used kind of interchangeably in especially in first John so abiding in Christ and by the way when you come to first John you'll find that abiding in Christ is also used interchangeably with abiding in God the Father abiding in the Son and in the father are kind of the same things so we've got quite a few different phrases that are all if they're not identical in meaning I think most of them are identical in meaning but if they're not all identical in meaning they are at least wrapped up together into one whole concept now I like to start here with this vine and branches thing because it it connects so well if Paul's talking about being in Christ in the form of a body and in fact later on as a plant also in G when Paul talks about the olive tree and branches in olive tree house but the idea here is Jesus is an organism with multiple parts okay a vine is an organism that has roots and a stock and branches and twigs and leaves and eventually grapes all of these are part of the whole organism called the vine we shouldn't think of the word vine referring only to the stock and maybe you don't have that tendency but growing up as a child and being less familiar that I am as an adult with these things I always thought Jesus a like I'm the stock and you're the branches but he didn't say on the structure on the vine that's the whole plant Christ is the whole plant and as I mentioned when we talk about the kingdom of God the imagery of a vine or a vineyard and producing fruit for God begins in Isaiah chapter 5 where Israel is said to be the vineyard and the fruit that God is seeking is justice and righteousness and that God gave Israel every advantage that they should be able to be a just and right to society gave them the most just laws that were given to any nation ever he gave them prophets to pull them back the right direction when they went the wrong way he gave them a land that that the unbelievers were not in control of so they didn't have to live in a corrupt culture they had everything going for them to live a righteous life but they didn't they produced bad grapes not good grapes now Jesus did say to them in Matthew 21 he says the kingdom of God is taken from you and given to a nation that will bring forth the fruits of it and he's talking about his people that the the church the body of Christ now the body of Christ will therefore bring forth the fruits of it and Jesus talks to his disciples as members in the body of Christ now Jesus doesn't use the term body of Christ no one in the Bible uses that term but Paul that's Paul's favorite term it would seem and and the connected term in Christ you see we are in Christ in the sense that we are like organs in a body Christ is the body well Christ is the body and the head he's a whole he's the whole person but Christ functions as the head of the rest of the body he's a member of the body like we are but he's the ruling member the head is the ruling member of the body if you're you know a hand or a footer and I are a nose or an ear you are in him just like your organs and your limbs are in you they're in your body they're part of you they're part of one organism we are not a Jesus fanclub we are in a sense Christ embodied in a corporate way where Jesus is the head and the rest of us have the same spirit the same life the same mission and every one of us is simply like an organ or a limb of the body and we follow the heads instructions so that the global body of Christ is like Jesus himself moving massively on a global scale through the members of his body now while it is Paul that gave us the image of the body of Christ it's not fundamentally different then this idea of a vine now it is different because a vine doesn't technically have a head or a ruler and Jesus is not denying that you know that he's the ruler or I think he's just using a different image than Paul used a vine is an organism like a human body as an organism and Christ compares us up with a vine here because he's the new Israel Israel to the to the disciples the vine is Israel she says I'm the true vine there's I'm the true Israel I'm the real Israel Israel the nation did not produce fruit but I will and I will do it through my branches which is used and those branches as part of the vine are the part that brings forth the fruit now certainly it's by attachment to the rest of the whole organism for Ruth and the stalk and and you know so forth it's by being part of organism that this fruit is born Christ is the one who creates the fruit we're the ones who carry it to bear fruit means to carry the fruit the branches carry it it's produced by the vine itself but the branches are part of the vine they're part of the organism now this is how he's talking and then Paul talks that way too in Romans 11 he talks about the olive tree which is another image for the same concept he talks there about some of the original branches which were the the Jews being broken off olive tree and vine were both images of Israel in the Old Testament and Paul's making a slightly different point when he points out that some of the branches or even broke it off and others have been grafted in nonetheless we're all part of the same olive tree we're all part of the same organism now the point we want to talk about here is abiding in Christ now abide I don't know if you I don't know if anyone uses the word abide in modern English I think I think if you hear someone talk use the word abide in a sentence you know that must be a Christian who who's familiar for King James Version because abide isn't really a I'm not sure if I can I guess some people are something I cannot abide that kind of behavior or something like that you know but well about is this is a noun abide is a verb yeah well okay abode is the is the noun form of the verb abide and I'll have something to say about that the Greek word abide is menon MP and oh may know there's also a noun form Monay it's the same word with the vowels interchange Meno means to remain or dwell or stay or continue in the same place or abide abide is a somewhat older English word which you know those who are biblically literate know how to make sense of it but I think that not very many people use it in common speech but but an abode is a place where someone abides okay and a monet and the greek is a place where people Meno Meno is the abiding Monet is the abiding place now too therefore we have the word Meno it's there's all these synonyms for it you could translate it remain dwell abide continue stay endure in fact the King James translators we're not really sure what to do with it they they used many different words for it like there's one verse in first John 2:24 which in the King James Version translates the same verb three different ways the the verb Meno is three times in first John 2:24 but it's translated three different English words in the King James it goes let that therefore abide in you which you have heard from the beginning if that would you from the beginning shall remain in you then you also shall continue in the Father and it's not all three of those are the same greek words three different english words now in the New King James we have a similar phenomenon in John 139 yeah and that is where John the Baptist is talking about Jesus and the spirit coming upon him but here the New King James actually uses two different words gonna work the same word twice Meno in John 139 my prince is very small here let's see he said to them oh no I it's not about John residence when Jesus came to the disciples that's where he was staying he says come and see and they came and saw where he was staying that's the word Meno and remained that's also mental with him that day so they translate stay and remain within the space of three words of each other just because I don't know why just just so you don't have to be using the same word as often as a Greek doesn't I guess but but think about that but she says abide in me when it means this stay in me remain in me continuing me which which has very strong implications that one might not necessarily automatically remain in him whenever you have such an imperative abide in me he's basically it's like it's like if I was about to leave you know would you stay for dinner well you're at you're telling me to do something I mean it's I mean I could say no but it's more than I mean it's an invitation but it's also an imperative stay and so when Jesus stay stay in me then it means don't stop being in me don't change your status with reference to me now the reason that's kind of important is because some people many Christians teach that if you are ever in Christ you're always in Christ that is once saved always saved if you if you come to be a Christian ever you are always a Christian and that's inevitable because that's you know it's just the way it is Jesus apparently did not think so jesus said it was not inevitable for example in verse six of what we just read he says if anyone does not remain in me he is cast forth as a branch and they wither and they throw them to the fire and they're burned that doesn't sound like staying saved but he does talk about someone not staying and the person who's not stained is one who was in him there's no sense talking about some not staying in him if they never were in him in the first place and say they're cast forth as a branch that means they were a branch they must have once been part of the vine they're once part of the planet but they're thrown away like a cut off branch now they cut themselves off they did not remain and we see the same thing when Paul's using the illustration of a of an olive tree in Romans chapter 11 again it's rose the olive tree but but this is now the true Israel Christ and he says those Jews who are the natural branches who believe are still there but the the Jews who didn't believe are cut off they're not part of a branch they're not branches on the oil anymore basically but you Gentiles who believe you're standing you've been grafted in and you participate in the root and the fatness of the olive tree you're part of a tree now but he said in verse 22 missus Romans 11:22 he says consider therefore the goodness and the severity of God on those who fell severity but upon you goodness if you continue in his goodness otherwise you also will be cut off now the word continued there doesn't happen to be men oh it's not the same word it's another report from the same concept but the point here is that Paul said that as one who's been grafted into Christ and you're participating in the life of Christ the branch subscribed and participates and the root and the fatness of the Tree of Life of the tree he says continue if you don't continue you'll be cast off too so both Jesus and Paul use this idea of someone who is a living branch on a living you know living organism and does not continue to be a living branch in the living area so they do not remain they don't abide in him and this is something that is not easily answered by those who think that salvation is inevitable once you've accepted Christ I believe in eternal security I don't believe in unconditional eternal security you need to make that very clear if someone says do you believe you can lose your salvation I would say why would anyone want to are you asking for permission no I would do I do that no you don't have to you can I believe you can be eternally secure but you're saved by faith if you have faith you're saved if you continue in the faith you continue to be saved if you depart from the faith you depart from being saved it's just I mean how how could it be simpler you're saved by faith now you have to abide therefore by faith in Christ or else you won't abide at all you won't be there you'll be cut off and be one of those branches that's gathered up and burned according to Jesus and similarly talked about by by Paul so there is there are many excitations in the scripture for us to continue to be saved but those who believe that salvation is unconditionally secure and what that means usually is you accepted Jesus maybe when you're five years old maybe when you're 16 years old maybe when you're 23 but you never follow him in him you never really you never really lived like a Christian and later on you don't you know I'm sure how much you even believe it anymore maybe maybe you'll even leave I know of people I've heard them debate who are atheist today who used to be Christians they were raised Christians they believed everything you and I believe apparently and some of them were pastors and preached the gospel now someone could say well if they fell away he became an atheist they never really were saved well I couldn't be the judge of that maybe they weren't maybe they were I mean we can't just assume that to be true the bible does say that some people don't about it Paul said many will depart from the faith you don't depart from something you've never been in so I mean maybe maybe these particular people never were saved or maybe they were we don't know but there are people say if you just accepted Christ you're you're unconditionally saved forever once saved always saved and I I know I told this story those who listened to me a lot probably pardon several times when when Jimi Hendrix died I I was riding in a car with a another brother my age who is also in the ministry we're driving somewhere and we heard on the news Jimi Hendrix had died and we were both we're both stunned and I I remember telling him I says you know it's amazing like yesterday he is at the top of the world he's you know it he's a multi-millionaire a rock star everyone knows his name he's the esteemed as the greatest guitar player ever and that was yesterday today he's in hell and my friend said yeah then he said oh wait maybe not maybe he accepted Jesus when he was a kid and I because I was still a Baptist at the time said yeah maybe so maybe Jimi Hendrix is in heaven because maybe he accepted Jesus was gay no no worries that he became a Satanist later on you know as a young black boy reasonably he might have been raised in a Christian Church lots of black children raised in church and maybe he accepted Jesus and maybe he you know he never thought another thing about Jesus again but hey once saved always saved I actually believed that because my church taught that of course that would make the words of Jesus nonsensical about the need to remain in him to abide in him now I'll tell you when I've made this point on the air sometimes someone will call me up say Steve you don't understand the parable of the the vine and the branches that Jesus yours he's not talking of salvation here he's talked about fruitfulness if this is not a parable about salvation it's a parable about fruitfulness he says that those who abide and will bear fruit and those who don't will not bear fruit so this isn't really talking about any possibility of losing salvation but only living an unfruitful life I don't think they're right about that for a number of reasons one of those reasons is because of the way the abiding in Christ is spoken of in first John but even the way it's spoken of in this parable she said if anyone does not abide in me he is cast forth as a branch and withered and they are thrown in the fire burned that sounds like worse than just not being fruitful you know he goes he could say well if he's not true if they're not truthful we're just not gonna you know they won't have any further but he said another gonna be burned that doesn't sound like a saved person being described in and if in some remote sense I could imagine that it was a saved person I would be disabused of that by by first John let me find the passage here if you look at first John chapter 2 I should never carry this Bible anyone who drinks is so small verse 24 and 25 first John 2:24 25 verse 6 here therefore let that abide in you which you have heard from the beginning if what you heard from that's better thank you whoever had that brilliant idea thank you he said therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning if what you heard from the beginning abides in you you also will abide in the Son and in the father and this is the promise that he has promised us eternal life the promise for what for abiding in the father now that verse was the one that has three different words of the King James but here it's abide all the way through into the New King James if you abide in what Jesus said then you will abide in Christ and in the father in the Son and in the father and this is the promise associated with that eternal life now if you look at first John chapter 5 verse 12 it says he who has the son has life he who does not have the Son of God does not have life now throughout the gospel are the Epistle of John the first epistle of John the idea of abiding in Christ is the same as having Christ here he says if you have the son you have life if you don't ascend you don't everybody that's no different than abiding in him let me show you why Oh actually I didn't my notes the references I had them in my rough draft I didn't get me this note just put it this way first John if you read through it it does talk about abiding in Christ the person who abides in him has the father and the son it says so this is talking about having Jesus and him having you him dwelling in you and you dwelling in him and this is something that is it's on us in a way now some people say well if it's on us none of us will be saved I've heard people say that before yeah if it's all if it's up to us to remain faithful then no one will be saved I'm not sure why they say that that's like saying if it's up to me to be faithful my wife then no marriage could survive why not why can't I be faithful to our life I mean I realize some people are unfaithful to their wives but is it really impossible to be faithful to you I don't think so some people are unfaithful to Christ but is it isn't impossible to be faithful to Christ I don't think so I mean why would it be more impossible to be faithful to Jesus than to be faithful to your husband to your wife faithfulness is simply a choice you make you're gonna be loyal you're not gonna give up you're gonna be faithful and I think that a lot of people just assume well I'm just trusting in God to keep me from falling after all doesn't do to say now unto Him who is able to keep you from falling he's able to he's gonna keep me from falling but says he's able to keep you from falling I say think that's in Thessalonians but the point is that God is able to keep you from falling but not without your agreement not without your participation he's able to save people too but not without their agreement he could save everyone in the world but not unless they agree to it because salvation is a relationship it's not a transaction merely we think of salvation as a transaction many times ok it's like you get saved now you've got this deposit in the bank you can never lose you know salvation is yours and you can't touch it and tells you until the time comes in this case until you die and then you cash in on all of it but that's what salvation is not a transaction sure you you enter through a transaction of repentance and conversion so forth but it's like marriage is marriage a transaction or is a relationship well it's both it starts with the transaction it's called a wedding at a wedding two people vow to be faithful to each other then they go home and either they are or are not faithful to each other the wedding is the transaction the marriage is the relationship and will the marriage last well if both of them remain faithful it certainly will if one of them ditches it then apparently not there are unfortunately many people who got married at weddings and are not married to the same person anymore which is very tragic but the only way that could ever happen is for someone to be unfaithful someone who didn't have to be unfaithful you know if I say well if God doesn't keep me faithful my wife then I just can't do it really is it really that hard you know apparently for some people it is and and indeed weak everything we do we need God for Jesus said abide in me he says without me you can do nothing okay I agree without him I can do nothing I can't take a breath I can't have my next heartbeat I can't I can't love I can't I can't do anything good I can't do anything at all without him so I mean abiding in him is required in order to do something to do anything but he didn't say you can do nothing while you're biting me there are things we have to do also one of them is to abide one of them is what he tells us to do the bible does not anywhere say that God will make you be faithful it says that he can keep you he can keep you but you have to keep yourself in the love of God I debated oh yeah I was a Baptist pastor once he he challenged me so I mean I don't usually try to pick on people but he wanted to debate about eternal security and actually that debate is online his name is Tom know that what no Tom burtoni was another debate on I think a similar subject yeah I was thinking about another that was Tommy Bertolli I have to say I forgot this guy's name already it's been many many years he's online though but it's about your own security but you know he said the Bible says that God will keep you it never says that you have to keep yourself I thought well if you take a few books out of the Bible it doesn't say the very last verse in first John says little children keep yourselves from idols in Judas says keep yourselves in the love of God what do you mean it doesn't say keep yourself there keeping yourself is your obligation keep yourself from idols the reason Israel fell is because they didn't keep themselves from IRAs was it impossible to keep themselves from idols I don't think so why would God blame them if he if they had no choice people are given free choice now it's true were corrupted we've got since but we also have God and through him anything can be accomplished when Paul said I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me he was in the context of as he was in prison and his circumstances were very severe he was poor and he needed support and the Philippians had sent him some support and he said I'm riding to thank you for that support it's really been a blessing to me but he says I'm not he says but I have learned whatever state I'm in to be content he said I can abound or I can be based I can be empty our can be full I've learned whatever state I'm in to be content I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me what's he saying he's saying if I am poor through Christ who strengthens we have to stay faithful if I am rich through Christ who strengthens me I can stay faithful nothing's gonna move me I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me this you might say well how is that why do you need Christ to keep you faithful in those cases you know in the Old Testament there's a guy named agar who wrote the 30th chapter of Proverbs proverbs 3 is written by agar and there's a real famous statement of his in there he says he says give me neither poverty nor riches lest I be poor and steal and take the name of my lord my god in vain or lest I be rich and forget the Lord now this guy's saying I can't be poor or rich I can't trust myself if I'm poor I'll probably steal if I'm rich I'll probably forget God Paul says boy sucks to be you Paul says I can be poor or rich I can do all things through God I'm not gonna steal when I'm for it I'm not gonna forget God when I'm rich because I have gone through Christ I can do all things but it's I who have to do it through him I have obligations here because there are Christians who have had Christ and they have not kept themselves from idols and they have not kept themselves from covetousness they have not kept themselves in the love of God and they have not remained faithful when tested with riches or tested with poverty there's all kinds of tests and I can pass all those tests through Christ who strengthens me but it's not automatic that's why the Bible talks over Chris knife has a warfare that's why it says we wrestle what are you wrestling for if you can just cruise if you're gonna be saved no matter what you do then why wrestle what's Who am I wrestling against anyway I'm wrestling against principalities and powers or what do they have in mind for me maybe it'd be okay if I didn't wrestle with him what then well the Bible says in 1st Peter chapter 5 he says your adversary the devil roams around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour well if I'm a Christian what do I care about that he can't devour me right well gonna why mention it Peter's writing to Christians or how question about that he makes that clear in opening verses of his book when he says you guys need to be vigilant you need to be sober because your adversary the devil is roaming around seeking whom he may devour and therefore look out for him in fact the next verse is whom resist steadfast in the faith you need to be steadfast the faith and resist the devil why well because he's out there to devour you otherwise that's I think that's fairly clear in the passage can the devil devour a Christian well if they don't resist can a Christian lose the wrestling match we wrestle against personalize can we lose it of course why else would you wrestle why put out the effort to wrestle why put on the whole armor of God that we might be able to stand in the evil day if standing in the evil day is inevitable it's not inevitable what we have just like a marriage we enter a marriage through a transaction we became persons for the transaction of repentance and faith and baptism and so forth but then it's a relationship and relationships are dynamic not static anyone who's been married and especially who's been married and isn't married the same person again knows very well that married just static it's dynamic you've got to you got to apologize when you do the wrong thing you've got to forgive when they do the wrong thing you've got to you know make sacrifices for their good and I mean there's relationships a lot of give-and-take a lot of interaction and if you don't do it it doesn't last I mean it might it might last just through the sheer loyalty of both parties to their oaths and it should but the truth is it'll hardly be worth a marriage worth lasting but I mean if you're not working on the relationship if there's if if the relationship is something that is continuous and dynamic the same is true with Christ jesus said if anyone you know I was gonna give that verse in Matthew 16 I'm gonna give him that one Matthew 11 where he says come unto me all you who labor and are heavy-laden give you rest okay that's like come and get saying it come receive present but they says take my yoke on you and learn from me what's the old mean haven't you become my slave you become my servant just like an ox or - ox and we're yoked why because they are serving the man who owns the yoke and who's steering the yoke you come under the control the one whose yoke you're wearing that's the rabbi's in in Jesus take when when someone became a disciple of the rabbi's they took that rabbis yoke upon them it's a figure they used when you said take my yoke upon you learn from me he's basically saying come under my leadership under my control follow me do what I'm telling you to do so I make sure you come unto Him but then you have to come after him she said if anyone will come after me let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me now those verses aren't in your notes but the the one was at the end of Matthew 11 I think around verse 28 29 30 and then the others of course in Matthew 16 around verse 24 think so so in other words being a Christian doesn't just mean getting saved it means living in a relationship with God and with Jesus and that means remaining in him continuing in him staying in him which as I say is not something that the Bible treats as an inevitability let me just show you a couple other verses that make that clear before I go on to the question of how does one abide in Christ okay if you look at Colossians chapter 1 Paul seems pretty clear about this he doesn't use the word Meno like John does but he uses a term that has essentially the same meaning actually it's a form of it I looked it up the other day I don't remember what it was now but Meno is part of this Greek word that Paul uses but it's it's not exactly the same word he says in Colossians 1 21 through 23 and you who were once alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works yet now he has reconciled in the body of his flesh through death to present you holy and blameless and above reproach in his sight if indeed you continue in the faith that sounds conditional to me if indeed you continue in the faith grounded and steadfast and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel those from your faith which you heard which was preached to every creature under heaven setter etcetera now Paul says this is all true of you if you continue if you're not moved away from your belief in the gospel you're hoping the gospel sounds like he's suggested continuing it's not inevitable if you look at the book of Hebrews which I don't personally think Paul wrote but I think it was written by somebody who is our companion of false and who thought very much as Paul did about matters there's a lot of Pauline thought found in the book of Hebrews in Hebrews chapter 3 verse 12 writing to Christian now first of all let's ask is he writing to Christians well who is he writing to verse one of this chapter should give us a clue therefore holy brethren partakers of the heavenly calling okay these people are holy brethren they're partakers with a heavenly call it sounds like they're Christians to me verse 12 he says beware brethren same brethren I assume as in verse 1 the holy brother beware brethren lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the Living God but exhort one another daily while it is called today lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin for we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end now that all sounds kind of conditional beware unless there be in any of you who you holy brethren an evil heart of unbelief wait how can it be I'm a believer well but you're a believer now but that's if you hold fast the confidence so your faith could until the end otherwise you may be led astray by an evil heart of unbelief that takes you away from the Living God that's what he says and he says your heart may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin so exhort one another daily so when you see a Christian who's sinning exhort them why because if they aren't quickly brought to repentance if they continue in sin they may become hardened in that way and they may depart from the Living God through the evil heart of unbelief I'll take at the end yeah I'd love to hear it oh absolutely I do want to hear any objections but let me let me get to the end first so we because we're sending this but then I'll be glad to have Q&A for anyone who has any other thoughts about that okay so what does it mean how does one abide in Christ well John tells us that Jesus is the light and he also tells us to remain in the light which must be another way of saying remain in Christ because in John chapter one remember he says in the beginning was the word the Word was with God the Word was God the same was in the beginning with God all things were made by him without him was nothing made that was made in him was life and that life was the light of men and in verse nine he says that was that true light that enlightens every because there's Jesus the word the life the light all the same Jesus later said I am the light of the world in John chapter 8 and then in first John where we have the expectations so many times abiding in Christ he starts talking about people who say they have fellowship with God but they don't abide in the light they're not walking in the light in 1st John chapter 1 verses 5 through 7 John said this is the message which we've heard from him and declare to you that God is light of course Jesus is like too but John uses God in Jesus not interchangeably but it's such a way that whenever you have God you've got Jesus when if you have Jesus you've got God we have Jesus in you then God is in you and you know if you're in God you're in Jesus I mean that's how John used this phrase so God is light and in him is no darkness at all if we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness that is me we are not in the light we're not a remaining in Christ in the light we lie and do not the truth but if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ the Son cleanses us from all sin now I want to make this clear what he's what he's saying and not saying when he says we have fellowship one with another almost everyone I've ever heard it talks about the passages that means you and I have fellowship with each other now he's talked about our fellowship with God he says if anyone says they have fellowship with God and walk in darkness they're not telling the truth but if we walk in like we do have fellowship one another and the blood of Jesus his son cleanses us he's talking about fellowship with God here I'm not denying anything about Christians having a fellowship I'm just saying that's not the train of thought that John is on you sent about people who say but do not have fellowship of God they say they do but they don't and those who really do have fellowship with God who also experienced the cleansing from all sin but notice this is not a once for all this is a walking as you're walking in the light the blood of Christ cleanses a small sin and then he goes on in verses 8 through 10 and he's talked about a lot walking in the light me he says if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves when the truth is not ifs but if we confess our sins that's walking to the light then we have it says then the blood of Jesus Christ son cleanses us from all sin or we it says he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness even verse 7 both talked about being cleansed by the blood both of them talked about it's through walking the life confessing our sins is walking in the life fly it's the opposite saying we have no sin now we do have sin and anyone who says they don't is not being honest they're not coming into the light they're not they're hiding they're hiding in the dark but the person is open and confesses their sinfulness is somebody who is in the light they're walking in the light we can see that as an idea that John got from Jesus in John chapter 3 the Gospel of John because Jesus there verses 19 through 21 says and this is the condemnation that light has come into the world but men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil for everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light lest his deeds should be exposed he who does good or does the truth comes to the light that his deeds may be clearly seen that they're been wrought of God now you talked about two people two kinds of people those who do righteous things they come to the light what they want to be exposed to light exposes those who do evil don't want to comply look so their deeds will not be exposed walking in the light means being transparent and opening and exposed that's why John in first John says if we say we have no sin that's not walking in the life you're denying what's true you're hiding something if we confess our sins we're being open we're coming to the light if you walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us that's present tense ongoing as we're walking walking is not an event it's a process walking is something we do through our whole Christian life and being cleansed happens as we walk in the light as we confess our sins that is as we're as we're not pretending to be something we're not one of the biggest temptations in any religion and that would include crisp religion is to pretend to be more than you are more holy more obedience more whatever than you are well let's face it nobody wants to talk about their failures we can humble be blamed for that it's not bad edifying you know I mean there are things I've done in my life that I'll never mention publicly not because I want you to think I'm better than I am it's just I don't want to talk about you know they weren't good things you know I'll let you know they were there I confess I confess I did bad things at times but but the truth is it's not that edifying and it's embarrassing but it's especially embarrassing if I want to give you the impression that I'm a pretty exemplary Christian because some of the things I've done my pastor say if he did that I don't know if I respect him I thought he was more spiritual or whatever you know and of course we all have that temptation think yeah in a fellowship of people who are all they all look pretty Christian to me you guys all look perfectly righteous as near as I can tell I'm in a sinless group here yeah I certainly don't want you know that I'm a sinner you know but you see when people say well if you can if you can lose your salvation how many sins can you commit before you lose your salvation ever heard that one oh how many you're not perfect how many sins can you do before you lose your salvation I don't think there's any given number because if we walk in the light even if we sin we get cleansed we confess our sins and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses abiding in Christ abiding in the light doesn't mean you're not ever committing a sin it means that you're never going to excuse or lies or be hypocritical like the Pharisees and pretend to be more righteous than you are become a whitewash - you're gonna keep short accounts with God and where necessary with people - now not every sin you commit have to be confessed to two people I was I was teaching at it I wasn't teaching at somebody else's discipleship school in Hawaii years ago and one of the students came up to me on a break and said you know our our group leader tells us that we have to make public confession of everything and he says and this guy said frankly I have a problem with masturbation he says and I confessed it to my leader he said we have to you have to announce that publicly at the next public meeting and this guy was saying I don't think I don't think that'd be a good thing to do and I said no you got to do it right so this guy's actually what I think I think well there's a really there's a really simple rule about confession you confess to the offended party if you've had a secret sin and no knows about that God God's offended but you can confess to God and he'll be unoffending he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and their cleanse us of all unrighteousness if your sin was against somebody and they know it in their and their hold it against you don't confess to them jesus said if you bring your gift to the altar and dare you remember your brothers holding something in you seed go leave your gift go make it right and then come off your game because you've gotten offended brother but what if you did a public sin that offended the whole church or the public well then that's when you need a public confession yeah I think it was Spurgeon who said your repentance needs to be as notorious as your sin was so in other words however has been offended by your sin needs to hear your confession but you don't have to confess every thing you've ever done publicly sometimes just confessing to God is what texture is he's the only one offended now I will say this there are people who have secret sins they're really wrestling with they're kind of in bondage to and while there's no obligation to confess that datum of God often there are certain kinds of things that it wouldn't hurt might even be helpful to have an accountability partner who you shared those things buts because sometimes someone keeping you accountable can help I'm not the same kind of believer in that kind of some people some people just assume accountability partners that's the that's the answer to all your problems but I happen to know people have been accountability groups who still hide the things they want to hide you know you can always hide it from it you have to be accountable before God in your heart but the thing is you want to be in the light you want to welcome the life you want to live in the light you don't want to live in the darkness because you won't have fellowship with God and you won't have the blood of Christ cleansing you from all sin I mean John says it John says if we walk in the like I said if then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin cleanses that it's it's ongoing as we want this is a relationship you know like taking marriage again which is the the frankly a biblical analogy God made marriage to be a picture of Christ in the church so this is a biblical analogy if if a man sins against his wife well she might forgive him but if he keep sinning and he doesn't repent well then there's there really is any reason for her to continue to formally forgive in her heart she should forgive it she can't trust him and God God intends for us to keep short accounts and be honest that's abiding your Christ requires abiding in the light because he is the light I mean abiding in him he is abiding in the light a second thing I would say is that abiding in him is abiding in his love and we have several passages about that of course we know John 3:13 John 13:34 and 35 that's the great commandment she said a new commandment I give unto you that you love one another as I have loved you he said by this all men will know that you're my disciples if you have love one for another so that's the great commandment to love one another and John in his epistle first John takes that and runs with it and he makes remaining in love the same thing as remaining in Christ or gone in first John 2:10 first John 2:10 says he who loves his brother abides in the light that is in Christ you abide in Christ in the light if you love your brother and there's no cause for stumbling in him of course if you turn over first John chapter 4 it's even more really uncompromising it sounds to me if that wasn't all first John four seven and eight says beloved let us love one another for love is of God everyone who loves is born of God and knows John he who does not love does not know God for god is love so God is love so to abide in love you abide in God if you abiding God you abide in love that's their very assignment the same thing and in Chapter four their first John a couple other verses verse 16 John first John 4:16 and we have no verse 12 first then 16 verse 12 no one has seen God at any time if we love one another god abides in US and his love has been perfected in us so if we love one another God is dwelling in us which John takes silent as the same thing is us rolling in God as we shall see verse 16 and we have known and believed the love that God has for us god is love he who abides in love abides in God and God in him so God dwells in us and we God if we abide in love what does abiding love means it means we continue to live in love living in loves means you loving that's that's your life loving is your life style loving is your habit loving is your nature it's the it's the fruit of the Spirit and if you're if you're born of God you have the Spirit of God and if you have the Spirit of God the fruit of the sphere is love abiding in Christ is abiding in love but the fact that he says abided my love or and he does say that and I think John 15:10 if I'm not mistaken also and here talked about abiding his love means it's not inevitable again if you're told to do something it means that you might or might not do it it's not something that's going to happen automatically would never be told to do it and therefore a person who's a real Christian might in succumbing to some temptation some offense some grievance might fail to love somebody else and if they don't repent of that failure then they're not abiding in love yes I think all of us have our times where we don't immediately feel loving towards somebody or don't immediately act lovingly towards someone but when we realize it we're walking in the light and we therefore confess it and renounce that we love is the habit of a person who's in Christ if a person doesn't abide in that habit of love in that policy love in that spirit of love that person is not abiding in Christ according to or in God according to it John said there's really no flexibility given there about that and then the last point I want to make and then we will take questions is that abiding a crisis said to be abiding in His commandments or in his word that's what being a disciple is Jesus said in John 8:31 if you continue in my words or abide in my words you are my disciples indeed now continue in my words is again an ongoing and ongoing responsibility that's why it's continuing it's not if you obey me this once and and and repent or if you obey me this once and get baptized if you oh maybe just this once and get converted then you're in now if you continue in my word then you are my real disciples if you don't continue then you don't really qualify to be real disciples in John 15 this is again right after that vine and branches section does say Matthew it's John John 15 I see better John 15:10 it says where's that number here it is if you keep my Commandments you will abide in my love now we're already talking those who abide in love abide in God if you abide in my commandments will abide in love now what does this mean it means that His commandments are simply description of love when we read the Sermon on the Mount Jesus did not intend to give us another kind of legalism just more strict than the legalism in the Old Testament you know he said in the Old Testament it did say don't commit adultery but now say if you look at a woman's the last time you've committed adultery it's harder now you know in the Old Testament you'd be facing you know the court if you murder your brother now you'll be facing the cart if you're gonna angry is your brother without a copy it's like people sometimes take what Jesus said in this room let's see well this is way hard that's like it's if you live by the Sermon on the Mount it feels like legalism on steroids you know like keeping the Old Testament law of atlas legalism keeping the sure enough that's that's major legalism right well no that's what Jesus didn't come to for legalism he does intend for us to keep his words he did not give the sermon other not as some people like to say just to show us how far short we fall he doesn't let people say Jesus never really expected us to do those things he just set the bar that high so we'd know how much we need grace okay no how did he end the sermon on trapeze he said anyone who hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man this house in Iraq you know who hears these words of mine and does not do them is a foolish man but Jesus expected you to do it but not legalistic you see Jesus said a new commandment I give you you love one another read the Sermon on the Mount it tells you how to love one it tells what love looks like what does it look like to love your enemy it means to turn the other cheek it means give to him I'll ask you it means if your thoughts to sue you giving me a clunk also if he makes you go on now go to the teaching on the sermon amount it's really a commentary on love you see if we just say all you need is love like the Beatles said well they're right in a sense but they're wrong majorly because to them love meant free love yeah you know love meant you know just that one you know set have sex you know all you want and and other emotional aspects of love I mean certainly there's people who are not in are not promiscuous but they still say well Jesus just said you need to love it I love everybody well what do you mean you love everybody what is love love Jason greater love it has no one than this than lay down his life the first friend to lay down your life is love not to feel warm fuzzy feelings toward something that's not love that's liking them that's being fond of them love is more of it's made of sterner stuff than just fuzzy feelings in fact you can love someone you don't care for very much you know let me just say this loving and liking are not just the same thing in different degrees most people when they say tis what I love you what they mean is I really like you a lot you know how I feel toward people I like like that feeling is like amplified when I think about you I feel like it's an emotion it's it's a taste really do you like butterscotch I don't particularly like butterscotch I like caramel but I mean there's no moral issue is in liking or not liking something's taste because it's a matter of taste and you can't always help whether you like somebody or not somebody might be extremely unlikable do you might not even you might not like their sense of humor you might not like the way they they tell the jokes they tell and you may not like her may not like the way they laugh you might not like the way they smell you might not like anything about them but you can love them now like my parents when I was a kid if you say you don't have to like people but you have to love them now I used to think that doesn't make much sense at all because I was thinking that loving is is just like liking turned up to a higher voltage no liking is 100 hundred percent a feeling you cannot command your feelings you cannot make yourself like being tortured you can't like it if you can you're insane you shouldn't like everything you shouldn't like everyone some people are just an offense to God and offense down to all decency and you can't like that can you love them of course you can love them because loving is not a feeling the command love your neighbors you love yourself Jesus paraphrase it this way what you want people to do to you do that to them there's loving is what you do more than it is what you feel I know what I want people to do to me because I love myself so I should do the same to them because I love them as I love myself it's more about what you do now sure it's great if you like them too it makes a lot easier to love them but you can love somebody that you don't even know you can lay down your life you can get a huge donation to somebody that you saw on Facebook a fundraiser for somebody who's in the hospital and needs a bunch money say your heart go 7uu makes a sacrificial gift there that's an act of love you don't even know that you don't even know if you like them you have no feelings about them at all you know that they're human being and that God loves them and that's and that's a righteous thing and a good thing to do love Jesus describes what love looks like he doesn't describe what it feels like because love is he somebody is not principally a feeling I'm not saying it's never accompanied by feeling I'm just saying you can't tell if you love something by not someone or not by how you feel about them husbands are commanded to love their wives but some wives are extremely difficult even to like and I'm sure same strong foot but the point is you have to love you you know what a man divorces wife is it well I just don't love her anymore as a shame on you that's your responsibility love it not if she's a shrew I can see that you might not like her but you have to lay down your life for her that's love love is laying down your life for somebody and and not just in the ultimate sense of becoming a martyr and dying but laying down your life moment by moment day by day lay beside your prerogatives your preferences yeah your rights that's that's laying down your your life day by day that's love not how you feel about it now if you can cultivate good feelings toward the person you'll have a happier life since you have to love them anyway it's a lot easier if you like them but you can see in in the notes there's quite a few Scripture and I won't look at all and I will look at one of them first John chapter 2 yeah this is a very good one for our point first John chapter 2 verses 3 through 5 or or through 6 now by this we know that we know him that's another way of saying this is how we know we're Christians by this we know that we know him if we keep his Commandments well that's just the same thing as if we love one another but his commandments describe love so we know that if we you know we might feel like we love something because we feel good toward them but we may not be loving them in the sense of Jesus described in his commandments his Commandments tell us how to love he who says I know him and does not keep his Commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him but whoever keeps his word truly the love of God is perfected in him by this we know that we are in him he who says he abides in him ought himself also to walk just as he walked we're talk about abiding in Christ what's that look like it looks like keeping his Commandments now you might say but don't aren't there a lot of religious people who kind of outwardly keep the commandments is that really love no look further on in chapter 5 first John 5 it says in verse 2 first John 5 2 by this we know that we love the children of God when we love God and keep his Commandments for this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments and His commandments are not burdensome now this is how you know that you love God and how you know you love others you know you love others if you keep his Commandments but the love of God is keeping his Commandments and not finding it burdensome now a lot of the things Jesus said to do like take up a cross and forsake all and do those kind of things those sound like burdensome commands there's a whole class of these commands that scholars call the hard sayings of Jesus well they're hard if you don't love him hmm really hard if you find it burdensome then you know that you don't have the love of God in you now I'm not saying you won't find it a second it feels good to sacrifice for someone you love that's why people always want to do it you always want to sacrifice for someone you really love and I mean think of your children primarily I mean if one of your children wouldn't when your kids are in their teams or whatever and one of them breaks down there drop driving some night and their car breaks down you know thirty miles out of town and they call you say dad I'm broken down dad gets up and he's not grumbling about it his child is in danger his child needs a MeetMe I mean it was this is my experience I don't know anyone else but I assume everyone's like me about this if one of my children's in need I'm their man and I'm glad to be there because I love them you know I would impoverish myself for them I wouldn't count it burdensome though this is the love of God that we keep his commands and we don't find it burdensome well why don't we because we love Him that's why that's how you know if you love God that you are in fact loving others according to the description of his commandments of what you should do and you don't find that to be a burdensome thing the Pharisees they found it burdensome and they loaded that burden on the backs of other people there are many Christians who live externally righteous lives but they wish they didn't have to they don't love God necessarily and so they find it burdensome but if you love God you keep his Commandments when you keep his Commandments you are loving your neighbor and as you love your neighbor you're walking in the line and you're walking the light you're abiding in Christ and these are the I mean these concepts are all inter welded especially in first John more than anywhere else he's got this kind of language throughout the whole book but that's abiding in Christ is first of all mandatory secondly it's not inevitable and thirdly it looks like something it's not just a mystical thing that no one can tell if you're abiding in Christ I was just kind of in mystical things it's between me and God no it looks like walking in the light it looks like loving your neighbor it looks like keeping his Commandments that's what abiding in him is it's basically simply remaining loyal to Christ because we do all those things as soon as we can convert it anyway if we don't do those things that our conversion you weren't converted I mean the word converted means changed right if if someone says I got converted last night that they don't change they didn't get converted so I mean people get converted and when they get converted they determine to be obedient to God they determine to love God and love their neighbor and to walk in the light and so forth and next is do they keep doing it continue abide remain in it because that's how you that's how you are in him that's how you remain in him Paul put it this way said as you have received the Lord Jesus Christ so walk in him okay so you've received Christ with certain with certain phenomenon of company walk in the same phenomena for the rest of life that's abiding in him okay so I've used up the time allotted but we did want to have that Q&A and I am I always enjoy Q&A and you can ask about this or any subject you want to if you say I've sat long enough thank you then you can get up you get coffee you can what a verse in the kitchen I'm sure still in the refrigerator or if it's just gotten late for you need to leave go ahead and go vote thank you for being here but I don't see you have some questions and anyone else has questions we gotta take it to real love means if you give me a hand me as you carry my stuff out [Laughter] [Music] why do you think that what do you think I don't know why you think yeah you said you can never undo that Bert why do you say that you commit suicide but it makes you not lie makes you okay well I'll let you continue trying to let me answer those points first because they're staffing up let's take the last one first and work back you're born again and you say you're born again you're a child of God no matter what you do you might remember there's a story called the prodigal son in the Bible yeah and what was being explained there was the tax collectors and sinners that Jesus was receiving the Pharisees were angry Jesus for receiving them and he told the story to tell that God the Father is welcoming these people into his family they were sums who were astray they were sons have gone straight now they're returning and it's just you know this is a description of people who are sinners alienated from God they're sons that are aiming it but they they need to come back now they're not sons of God in the sense that we are born again true the term son of God is used about six different ways in the Bible okay being born of God is one of those ways and we are born of God but all people are also called sons of God Paul said that in Mars Hill he said for we are all his children and since we're all his children we're not we shouldn't think that he's made of water stone whatever Adam is called the son of God in Luke chapter 3 there's lots of people called sons of God including this prodigal son but the prodigal son represents the sons of God who are alienated from him or not his not fade they he repents that he comes home than he's saved like like the tax collectors and sinners that came to Jesus birth now when he was away from his father true he was a son but what did his father how did his father evaluate in the United States she said my son was lost my son was dead but now he's found now he's alive so yes yes a dead son okay what we're talking right here is salvation is a lost and dead person save a lost person say okay yeah okay so so in other words the Bible not only says that the prodigal son was lost and dead the Bible says we were dead in trespasses and sins we have been in loss we're now found like a lost sheep and so forth so a lot of personally difference is not a safe person okay now the son was a son of his father but just like all people are God brought all people into the world as a father brings children in the world in a sense not all are born again not all our sons have got an accent but all have been rotting the world by God's doing and some of them are lost but they're still lost sons he said my son was lost so he was a lost son no no he got go together at one time no he got born again at one time when he said I will read come to my father now that was his conversion that's what he became a son now we don't know I think we're supposed to assume that he behaved well from that time on the story ends too soon first to know if that son I don't later date says you know I'm sick of my dad I'm gonna go off back and live in sin again well then I think you'd be lost I lost some good you know being lost is being alienated from your father now you said something about you don't go back and forth between kingdom of God and king of Satan neither do I I hope nobody does you acted as if I'm saying that you have to earn your salvation by obedience in fact you just said it's like I don't have to her myself HIV this I think is a misunderstanding of the biblical teaching that many people who share your perspective which I also grew up I shared your perspective too because the my church taught me that they say if we have to be obedient doesn't that mean work earning our salvation no it does you have children awesome yes okay and how did they become children not my be an obedient certainly by birthright so they didn't have to obey in order to be children well what do they have to do it when they're born bachelor bar quarterly board for well to live and in your family to be obedient obey your father your mother you know it when you have children they're just there's life description until they're adults on their own is obey your father and your mother okay they didn't become children by obeying and they don't remain your children violating but they they were born to obey that's what there's that's the commander Susan child's born there under that command obey now they may not and they may go off in a make themselves in which case okay they are still technically your biological son but what good does that do them are you you know there's the thing the son of the father in the prodigal story he was away from his father yeah he was biologically still connected to his father but he wasn't relationally connected and it didn't do any good if he had died in the far country he would have died alienated from his father he would not have had any advantage from being a son and and if your children disowned you then then they stood be your biological children but that they wouldn't be in a relationship with you then what saves a person is a relationship with God being in relation with the father and that relationship is defined as a father child relationship or a lord servant relation King subject reassure those are all biblical descriptions of our our relation with God now a person who rebelled against their father against their king I'm certain it says master is under judgment he is under condemnation and but you see I have to do certain things in order to guarantee not just to the time John Doe that I guess right nothing can [Music] if he dies everything he's done no longer is held against him before I die and you believe in the Lord not going to be brought to justice for the sins that have already the button doesn't say only that I die it says also that I've written a gimmick is so I've been crucified with Christ but I live and as a person who lives I have obligations just like your children had obligations to obey you when they were born into your family I have the obligation to be obedient to my king and to my father is my lord now if I choose not to do so and maybe you think a person who say to can't choose not to do so in which case that's depressing in a way I mean because you suddenly are no longer having you no longer a person you're now you know we had free will up until the time we got saved but we don't have free will so what did John mean when he said if we confess our sins he's faithful to forgive our sins and he compared that I actually have in my notes I would I was if I hadn't used up shorts I was gonna use it because remains in them let me just say this I was raised believing what you believe and I know very well those arguments the difference the reason I change because the difference to you what you just said and what I've said is I support advice of the Scriptures you use scriptural phrases but you didn't execute them in their context and you make assumptions about what they what their implications are which are not found in Scripture anymore no let me get something clear I'm curious about this are you arguing right I have a question are you here a god or can I ask a question okay so my question is are you King James only how about King James um well there are people who think the King James is the is the only perfect body are you one of those which one which translation which is that I thought okay so so you're not I mean I assume you're aware that the Bible was not written in English it was written in Greek and Hebrew no no what they're laughing at well you're evading questions yeah you're evading questions and dancing when it when the scripture talks about how you know that you said that maybe he turned and said to the other people when the facts as we said the kingdom was then you said maybe he turned around that's not in Scripture so you're reading into that no your simple maybe cuz that's that would fit in with your theology right but what makes you say that when the scripture doesn't say that why should we have to have that type of see that's not I I don't have any interest in in having a you know in getting anyone upset including you I just want to say that I do believe the scripture was what I believe that the Apostle you're asking me a question what could I have said okay I will I believe in the scriptures that were written by the prophets and the apostles okay they were written in Hebrew and Greek and the best thing we can do is get the best translation into English possible so I'll understand that unless you are you can learn Hebrew and Greek and many people have and we could do that but short of that we depend on the best possible translations we can get now if we have a good English translation then we can know pretty much what the scripture says the King James is a pretty good translation it's not perfect no no translation is perfect but many translations are very adequate when I say that in the King James it says the king of God is within you but most translations would say in your miss you think I'm denying the Bible know what I'm doing is I'm disagreeing at the King James Version translation of the verse I'm going along with what most Greek scholars who read the Greek Book of Luke what most of them believe that means that they think that's the best translation now I'm not saying you can't hold it the other way I'm just saying I don't think that's the right way I'm when I teach I teach what I think is true but I'm not saying people have to agree with me you know it's agree with me if you believe that you're unconditionally secured and it doesn't matter whether you a pasta size or not you're still go to heaven I can't make you stop believing that and I don't it's it's not my place to do so I don't think you're going to a pasta sighs you know you said you you don't go back and forth from a life of sin to a licensed righteousness that means you're abiding in Christ that's exactly what I think you should do the difference is maybe theoretical only because the question is theoretically if you did abandon Christ would you still be saved you might say yes I like to say no but still hopefully you're not going to bet in Christ at all so it becomes a moot point it becomes a nagging but but certainly I know that when I believed when I was a Baptist and I believed exactly put your time saying here I would have thought that this is what the church taught throughout most of history I didn't realize that no Christian taught that doctrine until the fourth or fifth century and all the church fathers understood the Scriptures as teaching a conditional security based upon faith not not works but faith but but faith produces alive you say you were talking as if my position is in order to abide in Christ you have to start doing a certain number of good works but I probably didn't make myself as clear as I should have you do have to have works but they won't save you they are the fruit there's a very good fruits that you'll bear apply abiding in Christ the point is if you don't have the fruit that's evidence you're not abiding in christ jesus said if you buying me you will produce my fruit so abiding in Christ you know it's totally different no it's not legalism of any kind it's basically saying conversion changes people now see I'm not sure you believe that you sound like you don't you make it sound like it conversion isn't necessary what's necessary is saying approach don't seem that dead to me right now God in any sense okay again the difference between what you're saying and what I've said is that I gave scriptures for every point I gave you have no scripture supporting that point you don't know because for example you said you are a new man correct where in the bible does it say you're a new man anyone any Bible you can use where does it say you are a new man well no I want to talk about the specific thing you say cuz I have an inner man inside of me too but just say yeah it's Christ the Internet Christ I believe we have an inner man well I believe that no I believe the new man is Christ the inner man I think is the spirit or the souls to do Colossians 2 second Corinthians 5 the new man is described by Polynesians chapter 2 is bigger than us it's something that we're a part of or something working we put it on we put on the man not the same man that you're mixing the terminology yeah you're mixing up different terminology for different concepts the I know those scriptures too and I won't I won't try to persuade you I want to say you're a new creation right and he never said he never said that you lose your salvation when you commit a sin he said and I've heard teaching this before that if a person quits believing that Jesus the Christ in other words one time you believe Jesus died on the cross three days later was resurrected and now you come to me and say I'm going to over plead I deny the resurrection deny Jesus is Lord then how can that person be said how can the person who once confessed that Jesus rose from dead which is a miracle of God now it comes back and says it never took place you know does all that how can that person be safe that's that's where the line was drawn not that every time you seem right is your salvation well I think you're not using that scripture in Jeremiah 31 as it's being used in the Bible see that's the thing there's a lot of verses in the Bible that you can take a phrase or two out of them and they and then we can put them together in a way that we like to do and make a composite theological structure the Scriptures the scriptures you're using you're using a phrase from one and a phrase from another phrase from another and you're putting them all together in a way that I don't believe the context justifies okay I believe that you're making a doctrine out of fragments of scriptures what I'm interested in doing is reading whole passages in their context and say what did the Apostles teeth what did Jesus teach and worse when you have a doctor that isn't taught the model that you want to support it you will find a scripture following place I don't doubt it about that you'd still be using fragments okay are there any questions or anything else thank you so when I make a comment uh-huh yeah from the beginning of the birth to the second that when you kept repeating obediently my belief is meat to be obedient I need to practice and I need to be an example this comes up and up a lot okay the question the questions about Genesis six and the sons of God this comes up a lot well there are many people who believe the term sons of God refers to angels sometimes in Scripture it probably does in joltin particularly but this is in Genesis and the term sons of God is used lots of different ways in Scripture but many people believe that in Genesis 6 the sons of God refers to angels who married women and had children and they believed their children were the Netherlands so they believed the Nephilim were half-breed human / angel ok part angel part really therefore they believe the Nephilim were superhuman or something different than humans this is a view the Jewish rabbis held it's found in the Book of Enoch which was written two centuries before Christ it's not found in any scripture I mean the scripture does not teach it necessarily the sons of God if if we understand the sons of God in a human sense like you and I are sons of God yes then what it would be saying is that godly people began to marry women who were not godly women and their families therefore were not godly it says specifically the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and they took wives of him so they married women because they were beautiful not because they were spiritually compatible and this led to mixed religiously mixed marriages and that usually leads to compromise in the next generation so some people think it's talking about human Bona and the Nephilim are not said to be the children of those marriages it just says there were Nephilim in the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God went into the daughters of men and so are born as them the same became mighty men of renown so I'm saying they were Nephilim in the earth in those days before and after these marriages so it's not saying anything about these Nephilim being the offspring [Music] maybe that might over simplify okay yeah lots of people say the sons of God were the children of Seth and then and the children of daughters of men were the offspring of Cain but there's no need to make it that way there were lots of lots of family lives yeah Adam and Eve had came they had Seth and then had a lot of other Suns like ours too now we're talking ten generations later in Noah's day okay so in generations later there could have been hundreds and hundreds of family lives that branched off from Adam and Eve and their children grandchildren and it's not stated that one girl for the children of Seth mean one group was a troll okay rather that some were godly and so we're not God but it does say the children were somehow special because I believe that they were humans also her but it says that they were they became men of renown the heroes so there was something special about the children of the these unions yeah I think it's very possible well there's it's a little ambiguous because it it could be saying the Nephilim were metaphor now but it may be saying that the offspring of these marriages yeah but that seems to be the more natural level of the language to me yeah to my mind it's it's not clear but if it is saying that the children of those marriages were men of renown yeah I think what it would be saying is that the generation of leaders of society the the powerful the famous the people were offspring from these pigs there again yeah and if in other words is sort of like you've got people compromising and marrying the wrong kind of partner so their children in the next generation are raised without a without a seamless and consistent these Christians witness from their parents but unless the sons of God looketh hora T and said we're gonna this house she's going to be you know in other words I don't think it says necessarily what happened after the marriage yeah you're right you're right but the thing is that usually what a christian marries a non-christian yeah now once in a while the numbers will get saying through that more often the non-christian pulls down the crystal and one of the reasons for that would be the Christian who marries a non-christian is already compromised I mean a person is really a god that gruesome doesn't want to meet that's redundant actually okay what if he was another Christian it has my god for prohibited that gender lights when he said don't marry yeah well otherwise right and I mean the more you love God the more the less you would find yourself compatible for marriage you know so I think that when Christians were non-christians there already is a certain deficiency that are already yeah I remember hearing a story about a pastor letter in this case the girl was a Christian and a guy was non-personal I wanted to get any marital counseling and so this Christian girl from the church brought her non-christian ex-boyfriend to the pastor's bouncing in and said about what are you thinking the pastor said to the girl here stand up on my desk and then stand on the floor hold hands he said now you hold him up on the desk and you call her down because frankly unless you're a very strong person an ungodly maid will interrupt you and if you are a very strong Christian you probably won't choose [Music] we have big theological implications whether they can be saved you know Bobby's son's about and there's that whole group today

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Published: Tue Jan 07 2020