A Spiritual Path For Success Erwin McManus and Lewis Howes

it doesn't matter if you come up with a different conclusion than me right right we all have different answers to all life's problems in life situations and you know reality and our worldview but we're all the same in that we're all trying to answer the question why [Music] welcome everyone to the school greenest podcast we've got Berwyn McManus in the house my man good to see you I so good to be with you I'm great - it's great to meet you in person I've heard about mosaic the church that you are the founder of yeah here in Hollywood since I moved here because I would go by it and there's a beautiful Church on the corner over in Hollywood and there was always people outside doing things and they're always the most attractive looking people up there always smiling they're always very like fashion-forward young and I was like there's some energy here you belong there right yeah I like that and and I had a lot of friends go there who love it and rave about it and a friend of mine Jill Marion is like you gotta interview this guy and I don't even know who you were but I knew the reputation of the church and as I started doing research about you I really said ok this is someone I gotta interview even though I've never heard about you personally I've heard about your work it actually makes me really happy no the fact that you let the church meet you know about me because really the church should never be a better person it's true that's true and you grew up in El Salvador I was born there and that was I went back in for toes run ten years old - ten years old you you you were a filmmaker as well right you got a lot of passion which means I couldn't hold a job exactly but I love your fashion made you walked in here I was like I need you to be styled me you know I wear the same like black shirt every day is like lecture just simple but I was like man this guy's got style and it seems like interesting all these like I guess pastors now churches they have them like this style it seems like there's a trend of a lot of guys and ladies who are like leading a message or a messenger but they're leading with a fashion-forward our innovative approach you've done that with the music at your church with the aesthetic the design it's not just like your 1990s church anymore right yeah I would say what the difference is that I'm 60 years old and so I was doing this 40 years ago yeah I think some of it is a lot of pastors grew up in church in the griffon really conservative environments and they grew up with a almost like a narrative that you should be against culture and so they they really were not connected to the world around them mm-hmm I grew up religious I had never walked into a church in my life and so when people were asking oh how did you become or whatever fashion for had you become more creative more edgy I'm going to no you don't understand I was actually normal this is what normal looks like if you haven't been told you shouldn't right express yourself can be creative imaginative yeah why didn't was I guess traditional conservative churches tell people to hold back from and express themselves or maybe they don't say it but it feels that way you kind of feel that judgment like walking in if you have something nice on it's kind of like looked down upon yeah I think if you just objective look at historically religions tend to attract people who are late adopters people who are afraid of change people who really hold on to the past and so whether it's a synagogue or a mosque or a church or a temple they tend to reflect the past rather than to create the future really why is that I think people are oftentimes driven by fear and and for me goes the opposite see I grew up you're religious I didn't I didn't have any this framework and so when I became a person of faith I I felt good I was liberated to create a future to imagine and to dream and to risk and and that if there was a God he is the most creative being in the universe as he created the universe so how in the world would I hold on to the past when he's the one who's supposed to be creating the future and so it's just a very different view of reality for me like I always tell people at mosaic the church should be the epicenter of human creativity should be the epicenter of imagination and beauty and wonder and and and so yeah I love I love film I love art I love I love fashion and I I i feel is alive and i'm directing a film that i did when i was you know when I'm speaking on Sunday yeah and I think we've created this unnecessary divide between what happens on Sunday or in Saturday on Friday depending on the person's faith what happens every day in life to me everything is sacred everything is beautiful and it's all an expression sure yeah Wow so did you grow up believing in God I wasn't often on kind of person some days are like okay yeah and my the best way I can describe it is my grandfather was an atheist who believed in reincarnation interesting so here I remember him driving us to a house tales a little boy had died and that was him and so he believed he was reincarnated from that young boy that died and but but if a lot of times people don't realize that Buddhism is actually a form of atheism it's spiritual but it's atheistic and so my grandfather was like that my grandmother was Roman Catholic but we never went to Mass right so it was like so many people where Christmas maybe year so yeah and and then my mom she was always on a spiritual journey and so I remember one time she brought home a Buddha and you know and so my mind we became Buddhist and then I was reading the read the writings of the rabbi Tichenor I'm why bad things happen to good people and so then I go okay now or Jewish you know so I could tell she was always like processing and trying to figure things out and I said dad he was just it was just a good solid like pagan yeah you know he I don't think he ever had a belief system in his life he worked in what we would call like creative underground economies and so he he had an alias and he had many different aliases different families and creative underground economies yeah because drugs we're talking with just talk on it's been talking in a lot of non-traditional forms of economic development sure sure and that was the world I grew up in and so I I went and I started reading two things that really affected me I read every mythology book in the library before I was in sixth grade and I'm not sure why but I thought maybe in mythology I could figure out who I was and why we were here because I I was really young when I began to feel a sense of disconnection and angst and and from probably age of nine or ten and so that I ended up in a psychiatric chair when I was a kid and I was in out of a hospital I remember here my mom said dad said we need him the psychiatrist we don't know what's wrong with him I had nightmares for you know years and years and years and just some you know some of the stuff everybody goes through that leaves you broken and shattered and disconnected from the world and and I found these writers a Robert Heinlein and Isaac as an often Andre Norton they're all science fiction writers who are physicists and and I found these imaginary worlds and dimensions you could travel to the world you go to species you could find and and in my own heart I began hoping that I was from another world and that this was the next Wow and and that sounds really bizarre but probably by the time I was 10 or 11 years old I convinced myself then I must be like a social experiment from another school oh my gosh and so I was really troubled kid but you know what I have discovered is you know sigh I don't know who said this but I'm it's almost like every story is true but they're all real you know and I had to create a story inside of myself just to try to survive and a huge part of it for me has been this realization that even when people search for God they're really just trying to search for themselves interesting you know I'm trying to find who they are if their life matters if they have significant Civ if their existence has meaning and I never delude myself I was never really trying to find some abstract reality I was trying to make sense of me I think a lot of us try to do that at times yeah right I think that's a search Rahman yeah you know and then then that became a part of the mix of it also when I became a person of faith I didn't I you know everybody talks about things like heaven and how that was so we're relevant to me you know I mean why even think about anything after this life and you can't even survive this you know and I was looking for something that helped me after I took my last breath I was trying to route how to live a life that would leave me breathless oh wow so what do you think is the the reason we're all here well I I mean I know this is a school of greatness you know I actually do believe that this greatness is a sight of every single person I think that every human being is created in the image of God and that and because they're every human being has intrinsic value and that were created to create I wrote a book years ago called the artisan soul and it's an anthropology and what I argue in that book is what makes humans different than every other species is that we can actually materialize the invisible mmm there's no other species that can imagine a reality designing system created and and and we don't even realize it's what humans do because silkworms just create soap they don't wake up in the morning decide what they're gonna do you know honeybees just create honey it's just intrinsic to who they are and I think that humans create futures and that we're in we're intrinsically created to create the good and the beautiful in the trope and I look at it I think I think human ideals are the best evidence of this like for me one of the best evidences of God our human ideals because there's a spoon amnon called phantom pain where you know if you lose an arm you feel the pain of the arm for years and years and years and and you have the psychological memory not of that arm but that arm is still there but you cannot have phantom pain if you don't lose something that wasn't once there if it wasn't there you cannot have phantom pain and I look at the world I think we we we struggle for human ideals like peace we've never known peace human history is never known peace but we have the ideal of peace we have the human ideal of a world without poverty a world where no one is hungry a world where every child is loved a world without violence world without abuse we we we have these ideals but we've never known that reality and I was and a lot of people say I can't believe in God and it's it's like this ideal and I'm like you believe in ideals every second of your life and so every time you do a school of greatness you're actually experiencing phantom pain you're saying there's something inside of you that there's no physical evidence of but I believe it's there we have to pull it out if you have to awaken it and I'm convinced that human ideals are our souls phantom pain that somehow we remember what it's supposed to feel like to be like to be human and I think humans were created for love we're created for beauty were created for goodness were created for community were created for intimacy otherwise why would we long for these things that are so difficult to attain sometimes seem almost unattainable why do we suffer so much though if love is what we want intimacy connection why does it seem like a lot of times people are going through so much anxiety depression disconnection uncertainty lack of focus lack of mission and they're not experiencing love on the deepest levels they could and I think that's probably the most fundamental human question is how is it possible the thing we need most is the thing that's most elusive we long for intimacy but we fear yeah and we sabotage it we mess it up we want to it's I think love is one of the reasons I have a hard time believing in a pure evolutionary theory because if we were just the the outcome of evolution we would have eliminated love a long time ago because love makes you vulnerable love is what gets you killed because the saber-tooth is going to eat this woman you care about more than yourself if you're just interested in her right then you're right you're not trying to protect it you know who gets the girl the girl who doesn't love or the guy who's still alive it's true mr. lifer I went how many times have you failed at love been damaged by love I've been betrayed by love then you wake up in the next morning and you're going I need to find love I need to be loved and for me it is probably the most powerful driving and trinsic proof that there's more going on than meets the eye because we can't seem to extricate love from us you remember Star Trek right the Vulcans were supposed to be like the evolution of of humans I'm gonna or we're finally emotionless and yet somehow we know that that's not life that's just existence because if humans are at the core longing to be fully alive but I know is that you feel most fully alive when you're most fully loved it's the truth and if you have all the success that the world measures and you feel as if you've not found someone to love and someone to love you you'll feel as if your life is a failure Wow so now I'll wrap it all back to this little statement that that Jesus says that God is love and and so I think that a lot of us aren't searching for God we're searching for love and we crash into God I say one more time I say we're not searching for God for searching for love but while we're searching for love we crash into God Wow I think that's what happened to me I wasn't searching for Jesus I wasn't searching for a relationship to some guy who lived 2,000 years ago who died on a cross I it wasn't on my radar in any way I was searching for love I was searching for meaning I'm searching for intention hmm and in that journey I feel like I I found myself in an encounter that I would have never imagined I still get in the platform at Mosaic and a lot of times I'll get up and I'll go I still can't believe I'm up here really yeah I just have these moments where I just but do you guys know how unexpected this for me that I believe no no and I and I'm I'm like that person who I have you have a lot of voices in your head I know you do and I have so many voices in my head they have to felt which ones you yeah right you know and and I think that when we're at our worst all the negative voices become our identity loud yeah and and but a huge part for me was like I had these voices in my head they're always questioning I've never been a person human today oh I put you which is why I think my message works on the corner of Hollywood Boulevard LaBrea it's because this is not this is not a conversation from someone who doesn't wake up in the morning asking questions about everything I wake up every day and I'm haunted with endless number of questions and I'm I'm I'm never under the illusion that I found all the answers but what I do know is that it's some odd way without all the right answers or without all the complete answers I experience what it means to be alive mmm and that matters more than being right Wow what's it mean to be alive you know when you're alive okay when you're in love sorry this is exciting yeah when you when you're in love everything gets heightened yeah and and this is what it means like to be alive because one time this secular journalist journalist asked me what does it feel like to believe in God I go you know have you ever had that moment of your life where like the food tastes better and the aromas are more clear and distinct and and the colors are just brighter and I remember when I was driving when I was younger and I didn't know I needed glasses but my my friend I were playing this game were you doing the south of a thing you have to find the letter a be seeing words and he kept winning and I thought he was cheating and then as we're driving he goes wait a minute okay Tommy soon as you can read that sign and he could read away before me that's how I disc I only discovered I needed glasses I only discovered I couldn't see clearly when I was with someone who could see clearly mm-hmm and the first time I put on glasses I realize leaves were distinct individual pieces on the train I just blur there's my shadow it's yeah I always thought they were beautiful I didn't know that they were astonishing mm-hmm that's the difference between surviving and being alive when you're alive you see the details and the beauty in the wonder you know a person who's just existing every day they're there they start with depression and fear and anxiety they see everything that's missing they are haunted by all their disappointments and and and they have not one more disappointment than the person is fully alive and that one more challenge or struggle or hardship but the person is alive somehow sees beauty and everything season one here's thing and that's what I know I'm alive yeah when I'm going mad you cannot bring enough difficult to my life to steal for me the wonder of taking this next breath Wow when someone's going through this feeling of not feeling alive just surviving depression anxiety seems like the world's against them whatever what's the first question they should ask themselves to get to help move them out of that position yeah I think when you're in that space one of the most difficult things to do is to actually get perspective because when you're ready to press it and you're feeling anxiety when you're overall in fear that means that you've been in there so long that your world is not being consumed by every negative factor around you so I would say is pick one thing that you can identify that's worth living for just pick one thing that you could be grateful for if probably was over 20 years ago I actually wrote about gratitude would seem to be almost like um I don't know cute philosophy you know you know light-hearted you know anthropology but and neuroscience is and I actually had this phrase from a neuro clinic that gratitude is the oil to the brain it's a lubricant to the brain that now neuroscience is finding the gratitude has ism can the ability to keep our brain pliable adaptable and we are able to imagine and create but we're grateful when we run grateful we actually lose our capacity to think creatively and and we lose our genius we lose our brilliance we lose our greatness we don't usually connect gratitude with greatness so when a person is struggling with fear anxiety or panic attacks whenever outside the first you have to do is you have to find something to be grateful for it and then step into that gratitude and if it's a person go thank them whatever it is find some way to express that gratitude it'll begin to lubricate your brain I remember one time years ago my son Aaron he's 13 now but you know my wife and I my wife was an orphan and and I never knew my dad and you know grew up in that kind of you know combustible kind of family system and so we knew our first kid was like an experiment like he's a social experiment let's see if we can create yeah yeah yeah yeah and at one time we're in New York years and years ago we went up to these Chester and and we're going back to Manhattan and when we got into the taxi I I didn't have a lot of money or hey that you know and I realized I left my wallet my son said dad I got you covered he was like being a man you know he's like I got you covered you don't need to get your wallet my wife was gonna bring it later so we took this taxi to Manhattan he paid for the taxi and then he left his wallet in the taxi oh man so we're in Manhattan like 1:00 in the morning and with no money no ID no credit cards no phones we have nothing no I think he might had his cell phone and um and he started panicking because we were like probably 45 minutes walk to our hotel maybe an hour and as we're walking he was getting all panicky all nervous and he goes I'm so sorry he was so upset that he made this mistake I'm like it's okay like don't worry about it you know and it's okay you're you're you're you're being fearful right now you know because it is a little a little yeah it looked intense where we were yeah and I said all right buddy you have this like part of your brain you know it's kind of like they were Chilean part of your brain and right now it's on you're afraid you're angry you're protective you you have almost like this acute sense of danger you're hyper vigilant and I and I said you can't solve the problems right now because that part of your brain is taking over and if you can't let go of the fear and let go the anxiety and let go of the stress you can't access the part of your brain that unleashes imagination and creativity so as we walk for this Alvar we've spent the time talk about how to solve problems like who you know anywhere in the country that could help us who do you know yeah how what order what are what are the unforeseen materials that we have of human relationships or a resource that we have you know what can't you see what can't you see it as funny as we're walking goes is there really such a thing as a reptilian brain he goes because I'm going to use this I wanna make sure you're not just making this up and but I think there's this kind of dynamic when a person is under duress the part of if the I don't even want to use brain the part of your essence that you activate is the part that leaves you paralyzed and if you can actually step away from that fear and that anxiety and begin to see that there's wonder and beauty and opportunity all around it begins to activate the part of your brain that's full of imagination and creativity and beauty well and I made a decision when I was around twelve because I could feel myself disappearing it's my internal world because I created an imagined world inside of me that I felt was safer than the world outside of me that created a world inside of me that was much more interesting and a world that fit in better and and I felt like I was having a hard time coming out and I called that world of that world you know I'm stepping back out so I I have a go to school and and I would disappear and the class would be gone the teacher would just give up on getting my attention and I read another world I'm just literally in another world and every year I go to school and go this is the year I'm gonna make aids this is the year I'm gonna do well and by the third or fourth day I couldn't remember my classes I just really couldn't connect to the outside world and so I was a straight D student at first to 12th grade and I lived in this internal world and I couldn't explain it at night and I tell my wife you to this day I was so comfortable in that world that the characters in that world are as real to me as the characters they you interact with every day but I made a decision that I was either going to get lost in this internal world that's I was gonna use my imagination to hide from the world or I could use my imagination to create a better world and that's a part of what's shifted in my life and is that I because everything that you have is really your resource it's either try to be self protective or to create something more beautiful for other people Wow man that's powerful I think a lot of people can relate to that maybe not as deep into a world that you were in but I remember being like you know people have like imaginary friends that I have dolls that they like when I hang out with more than real people you know I used to have played games all the time with myself because I felt very insecure and alone as a kid and struggled in school as well I couldn't really read and write it was just like I struggled my whole my whole schooling through I was just like I always played games with myself did you try to keep myself happy yeah trying to find some sense of meaning and purpose I remember I used to get in trouble a lot in school and I would go to the principal's office and I would just say over and over I wish I were dead I would just say it's the principal over and over I just wish I were dead then I felt like I had a meaning or purpose I think a lot of people struggle with the sense of meaning and purpose and I'm curious you know you've been through so much in your life and you said that there's these questions that haunt you still today what are those three big things that haunt you every day or on a consistent basis those questions that you're constantly like seeking the information towards yeah yeah I think it's you know things we ask an endless number of pressures and hudud in some very core fear environmental issues you know III years ago III wrote in a book called soul cravings that every human being has three intrinsic cravings that unite us all together and a lot of us goes you know I was studying Freud and install therapy and transactional analysis and you know I was watching you know reading young and atler and all these guys and one can't win but everyone's trying to understand what motivates human action and and everyone had different answers but I thought what the question is really important and so when it became a person of faith I want I was really not like most people study the Bible for theology I said the Bible for anthropology and sociology in a people want to understand all this stuff about God not like I really wonder saying all this stuff about us hmm and and I think what I came to is that there are three intrinsic lives every human being has an intrinsic need for love for into minion there's an endless number of words around intimacy you know in action connection belonging you know every good thing has an intrinsic need not only just to be loved but every but for hope and every human being has to believe that tomorrow can be better than today the moment you stop believing that - marking better than the day you actually move to despair there's this so it's so exotic looking okay every one of us have this needs for intimacy to connect they have a human contact to have to be known and to know is that see I think these are proofs of God see I think this is because you're designed in a certain way just like you're designed to drink water to eat food and debris there but we just happen to you know because of some mathematical probability we just happen to need exactly air that we have exactly you know we just happen to actually need the liquid that this earth is full of that comes from the sky I mean it sounds like magic aqueduct gets filled because the heavens open up a drop water on us no wonder people dance to rain gods yeah you know and we just happen to be able to eat the food that's on this planet and I think the same way with with love that every human being it's driven for love and I think almost all of human history can be understood through love and hate and the way that we interact with each other and so the great wars in history are not by people who are different from each other people almost exactly the same and so you have the Hutus and Tutsis you have the Protestants and the Catholics in Ireland you know and I mean have the north and the south and Civil War you you would think that we would be so fundamentally different that's what we couldn't get along it's because they were fundamentally the same so we're the same why can't we get along see those are the questions we have to deal with that's the question to wake up with every day and then we have this also this intrinsic drive for progress like every human being has to believe they can become more I mean think about this your school greatness is a declaration of a human intrinsic because you can't pull out of people anything that isn't in them and I think this was for me a fundamental problem with faith a lot of faith was trying to shove something up sir oh it's to cram something into people and I'm I'm pretty much know if I can't pull it out of a person then I shouldn't be trying to put it into them hmm because to me that's coercion that's manipulation you want to pull out of a person what they're longing for what they're searching for and now because then you don't have to worry about you there's a difference we giving a person something to drink and drowning a person you know we're seeing it yeah I run a controlled a lot of her lately feels like waterboarding not being given a cold drink that's one of the reasons why a lot of people have stepped away from religion and think about this for a moment when you talk about like faith no hope only exists in the future because it person something that's better a potential better than what I have now yeah and because if hope is in the past is called regret you can't change the past and and oddly enough like this guy named Paul the Bible actually says that when something gives you hope once you attain it it's no longer a source of Hope which is a really profound anthropological insight and so hope actually causes humans to be connected to the future and this is when things was so odd for me when I became a person of faith the way that Christians especially thought about the future like it was so fatalistic so deterministic that might have been atheists yeah you know because like if you look at the you know deterministic atheism it says that the future is already set through them at medical you know probability and and I'm like that's the same thing that a lot of Christians say the future is already set and when Christians an atheist set this in common they feel that they have no creative power to affect the future see I would never accept that level powerlessness yeah in my life and I think the future is dynamic and weak we affect the future and and so when I look at hope it means that humans are designed to be connected to the future and if you are connected to the past and disconnect the future you actually lose all hope and and one of the reasons I know these are intrinsic says that humans function best when they're loved they function best when they have hope and then there's this other dynamic we function best what we have meaning it's a human intrinsic it doesn't he doesn't matter if you come up with a different conclusion than me right right we all have different answers to all life's problems in life situations and you know reality and our worldview but we're all the same in that we're all trying to answer the question why which I think it's so interesting that children ask the question why when they it's the least relevant question for survival the questions that matter for survival the evolutionary questions are what when where how like okay how did you get away when he got eaten no I bought a fire when I'm like freezing today yeah and the question why is not an evolutionary question then why don't we ask it so much you know I think it's because you're created with eternity inside of you just like there's a electrical circuit that's catalyzed in your heart to be and it sounds like magic that you are electricity being formed into flesh and blood I think that your spirit and your spirits telling you you need your why you need to know why you exist you know why you're here has really if all we have is these 80 years well I would why matter at all and then I look at humans I think we are meaning machines we not only give meaning to meaningless things we make meaningful things meaningless yeah I think a huge part of your your podcast is trying to align it meaning for people you stop wasting your life and the things that are meaningless and start spending life for things that are meaningful absolutely think about it right now we're communicating is this what we call it right we're transmitting meaning yes but all we're actually doing is creating sounds and we as a species learned how to create sounds that were able to transmit complex and detailed images into the other person's brain it's crazy and I have a feeling and emotion yeah yeah and all this is seeping through us and we're we're actually transmitting something real I mean what's more real what we're passing to each other or me handing you a book or passing you a fork or or giving you a thousand dollars because III give you $10,000 that's always outside of you but when I speak into your life it goes into the essence of your soul when you affect me it changes me and it becomes a part of who I am so something really performing on here and we humans are meaning machines I mean think about there are tribes in Africa by clicking I hope I didn't say anything for a favor you know better see Gallo Loyola okay this way Anand oh no my plants and than that because the moment I changed my language it no longer transits meaning to you and and we humans have this incredible way of creating meaning and everything so colors have meaning I mean behind me you write love but it's not just that it's the word love it's how love is written an interesting that love tends to always have soft ground yeah feeling yeah yeah because you're not gonna write love with hard and those with triangular you know images you're gonna write love because it has this kind of feel because we give meaning to everything and then you have all these different colors and the colors have meaning we humans create meaning every second of our lives and that for me is the fundamental question not okay not what you're doing to try to get love not not what you actually believe is bringing you home cuz you know it's odd a person who has false hope is actually doing better person there's no hope right they think crazy yeah they have something yeah wait are you out of your mind you actually believe it's gonna happen and they do and it drives them forward and get some uh purpose they work harder they're more happy this I'm really pragmatic and boy wow this is how powerful hope is even false hope works mm-hmm then you can actually find something you should be hopeful for it changes everything yeah and then all of us have this drive to find meaning or to create meaning or to make our lives meaningful why do we care so much about meaning see that again it's an intrinsic proof that you are not time dated that you have something eternal within you know because meaning is an eternal question it's not temple question it's not a question that survival demands you know and and I think this is a part of what makes us fundamentally unique as human beings and and I think it's part of what drives was almost a madness - mm-hm because I had thought things were meaningful that we're not like what hey you know when you're young right I mean I I played sports right you know and I'm from Oh salvadore I should have been playing soccer but my stepdad and sister I play football you know I'm not uh physically really created for football but I thought football was the most meaningful T in my life yeah and when I stopped playing football my mom actually called the college to make sure I was not so depressed that I wouldn't do something harmful because it was there was meaningful thing in my life right and I mean I'm Brooke bunch of bones in the back of my hand I played for more games while those bones burn without going through the doctor the same thing that footballs so Hawaii it was like what position you play I played running back where'd you go to school well I didn't play in colleges play in high school got together yeah yeah but um and and I think that but I thought it was the most meaningful thing in the world right and then all sudden one day I realized why am I doing this like there's no meaning in this in fact it's almost tragic to think that I thought it was so meaningful when it wasn't that significant I was coaching my son he was playing hockey when he was like 10 years old I know nothing about hockey but I was coaching but he was the best player on our team he really want to be a good teammate the other kids are you being upset because he was scoring all the goals made very empathetic in that way so one game he's saying dad I'm just gonna pass the puck you know I'm just gonna back I'm not gonna score because I want other parents to like me so we're playing in and he's passing the puck passes if I'm getting killed because we're our kids just couldn't score and I brought him over and said area I need you to the score goes no dad team game it's the other way around right you know and he goes yeah team game when they pass you the puck school right here and then and and I said here take the puck and score I got a little tense and you looked at he was ten and he said that in 20 years this game is gonna matter Wow that's crazy that a ten-year-old had a perspective he's been listening to the wrong messaging I've been listening to I say to adults I say the children and I remember looking him said well could you go out there pretend it matters because I could do that yeah he said right you know and he goes out there pretends but he knew intrinsically that this wouldn't matter oh but that was a gift in that moment most of us we give ourself like wealth Fame and power meaning how many times have people just given their whole life to be famous rather than to build her life to be it not not known but be worth knowing right you know and and I did how many times have people mistaken greatness for fame and Fame for greatness I know and I think in this book I actually talked about how the fame is what you do for yourself but wait this is what you do for others you know and so when you asked like how do you give you sometimes the wrong thing and think about it have you ever made a mistake in your life and you just feel like your life is over yes see I had moments like even I remember in high school and junior high thinking I don't want to wake up tomorrow I just want to die on a horse you know and I would have to tell myself then in 20 years isn't gonna matter I never had that perspective I was just like so deep in the pain and suffering I was like what am I gonna do tomorrow to survive you know it wasn't till much later you know in the last 10 years of my life where I started to learn like this is gonna matter this is gonna pass like everything's gonna be okay in six months a month whatever but most people I think struggle with perspective and and finding something to be grateful for what you talked about before me gratitude it's one of the cornerstones of my life especially when things are wrong or seeming wrong yeah well a lot of it is just an illusion or the the the story we give it the meaning we give this experience and I've started to look at more and more challenges in my life as beautiful experiences as lessons to make me stronger for the future and they actually give me more hope I'm like okay this is happening for a reason for me to learn something so that when someone wants to commit suicide in ten years I have the courage to go to know how to stand in it in that fear with peace and grace and love and not freak out or whatever it is to probably what you've been through you've been able to stand on your church or any stage and connect through experiences of pain and struggle and the crazy world that you were living in as opposed to everything is better perfect yeah it isn't ironic kind of almost like a psychological dynamic of putting all your eggs in one basket and you we don't oftentimes realize that we may be the basket we put all the eggs in hmm see if our whole life is about us being loved and our whole life is about us having a future and a hope and our full life is about us having meaning for us and then all the eggs are in one basket but when you said no my focus would be loving people and and just the love that I need is gonna come my way if I'm just gonna focus my life of loving people I'm gonna focus my life I'm giving other people hope I'm gonna focus my life and helping other people find meaning I'm gonna find my meaning and serving others not in having others serve me then you've actually diversified if you're looking at it from an economic perspective you know a lot of us don't have a psychological diversified portfolio interesting our whole lives are about ourselves and the way I look at it is that every day of my life someone I love is doing well every day of my life someone I love is moving forward every day of my life someone I love is doing something awesome and so there's an a day of my life there's an something to celebrate because it's not all about me wow it's interesting what when when I'm going through hard times it's really hard to have the perspective to not think of like I need help right now I need to get out of this feeling this experience like someone throw me a bone right that's a time I think when you feel the most challenged the most insecure the most doubt anxiety overwhelmed the best thing you can do is call three or five friends that you care about just like you said like call five people that day and tell them what you appreciate and acknowledge about them mmm-hmm like be a listening person to them give them love hope inspiration tell them they're doing a good job like get out of yourself and serve other people and you're gonna feel a thousand times better yes that's a good new ones that you have they're good a lot of people call three to five friends to tell them what they're going through to give me support yeah rather than calling them to give them support I love that and I mean I listen I think you can you we still want to talk about challenge that we're going through because that makes us human and allow us to like process and express certain things so I don't think you should just mask all your feelings and emotions but I don't think you should sit them for too long and focus out like the more you can just give to other people smile at strangers the more you can just help people I think it was exhilarating the personal development space says if you want to achieve all your goals help everyone else achieve their goals yeah and it's like just focus out as much as you can and you'll attract the love you'll attract the meaning yeah absolutely so what's the biggest question then the wrestle with the most is it yeah because you connected with me when I said if we're so similar why do we always fight in the world is that one of the biggest questions you wrestle with or no I I think I mean sometimes it's very practical it's just everyday stuff of how do I help you buy love move from a deep sense of inadequacy to a place where they have this internal strength to know that they have everything they need to live the life that created to love you know and say I wish every day I was just trying to answer the big questions of life but a lot of times I'm just trying to help people I care about how do you help you be care about who may be always seem to be a victim or struggling or that never seem to get a hold of like their purpose of their mission and you just want to see them thrive but they continue to suffer year after year yeah I think one things that you have to realize is when a person is in a perpetual pattern negative pattern that they almost can't hear you right away like wherever you and I employee communication happens easily in naturally if we disagree we have a more difficult time understanding each other if we violently disagree you will distort what I have said and I will distort what you've said and turn it into a more violating response yeah does that make sense of course you know so when a person is in a really bad place you can't you can make the mistake of thinking there unteachable because they don't respond well to what you're speaking into their life they have to realize that a lot of it is that they're in a and they really almost in a distortion zone where they just they reinterpreting everything in the negative and it takes a little you have to be patient with people and help them through and there's this interesting like place in the Old Testament with this guy named Elijah I think it was and he has a great moment that he has a horrible moment when he goes running for his life and he goes out into the wilderness and he hides under a bush and he just like just want to die you know and and it says the first thing happens as an angel came and said and brought him food and drink I said just eat it's like yeah and I think sometimes we just are too hard on each other yeah we demand a lot from each other yeah you know and I'm like hey just just get some food get some sleep because you're you know you're you're inside of this body and if your body's not doing well you you're not gonna do well you know and I'm just gonna think clearly yeah yeah so a lot of times people look just you know just realize that you have to stop and take care of yourself just eat and sleep yeah like I'm a person doesn't sleep hardly at all I mean I don't know I I've never sucked I mean my whole life everything like that you know and but um and so I have to like work at sleeping practice every yeah yeah you know and and getting to sleep and things and in a lot of us because I processed so much stuff and and I do all my work in my head so it's hard to not be at work and you're running all that stuff down so I know it's like to be in this space and my wife says to me it's too loud in bed I can hear your brain Wow and she's just turned off I can't just turn it off so I think I'm empathetic going I know that I can't just go boom it's all shut down I'm not worried anymore I'm not stressed out anymore I'm not anxious anymore I realize there's a process that I have to go through and some of it is it really almost like practice where you have to go okay I just need 30 minutes or I'm just quiet just alone I just decompress and I just get into my own like space and yeah and I do think this is why historically things like prayer meditation are so important yeah whatever you choose to do just got to find some way to block out the outside world and get in touch with it's going on inside of you because I think some of it is when you're not paying attention to your inner world it's almost like it's Parliament out of control everyone's screaming and yelling you have to step in and say you're in charge yeah you know this conversation is a conversation that I am the head of and I'm gonna take on this conversation yeah I think when you're not in control of your inner world every little thing in the outer world becomes amplified like you said everyone who's stopped at a red a green light you get mad at and you react to everyone that honks at you you want to flip off and fight everyone that says something to you you respond with this everyone you're in anxiety yeah yeah and by the way that is actually why I wrote the way of the warrior what is that like I don't write books going local Sal you know I am I write books based on what are the real things that were grappling with you know and and I found even in my own life with a 27 year old daughter a 3rd year old son me being 60 and and knowing that they're struggling through some of the same stuff that I struggle through they face crises and challenges and you know they have moments of deep internal angst and you know my kids are really thoughtful and intelligent and and sometimes I envy people who don't seem to spend time thinking about life peaceful but if you're if you usually if you are at all intersective or reflective about life you're gonna find yourself sometimes tormenting and in turmoil and and a huge part of the process of moving toward peace is slowing yourself down yeah and allowing your inner world to be organized the way that you want to express it your outer world you know and it's funny because my kids always tell me like I'm like Zen because I just don't lose my temper I just you know I mean it's probably been 40 years since I've lost my temper but it was a kid out of violent temper all his up I was a guy to punch the walls me too okay every moment I felt like defensive yeah not fight or scream or yeah I was that guy wow you know and I realized was that anger rage was me proving I was powerless Oh so power that powerful people are never out of control it's powerless people who are out of control so when you see that person being physically violence or expressing a rage or or you know cussing that person out or you know it's I mean I see people stop their cars in the streets and get out you know my clash all right here's a person I've heard that guy before they're not just out of control they're powerless yeah and that's their powerlessness being man-made made manifest and what I decided in my life was that I would not allow any circumstance to be more powerful than my internal world and I will not allow the external world to be a bit more powerful my internal world and if my internal world is stronger than the world around me then nothing in the outside world can affect you can't affect me that's why people say I don't know what I don't know what got into me I said nothing that into you it got out of you Wow and just the circumstance it pierced into your soul and it laid out what was really there I think Viktor Frankl talked about that in his book about you know when he was in concentration camps you know people would do all these horrible things to him and he just kept a sense of peace and focused on his reactions that's man's search for meaning man search for me which originally was called death Canton existentialism Wow interesting but that's not a selling toy that's not simple you know I heard stories about Mandela where he was just treated horribly in prison and yet from what I understand always responded with a sense of peace and love and in fact after he got out like welcome of those guards into his home and dinners and things like that so for me then Martin Luther King talks about you know never letting never getting angry at someone's hate towards you you know because you lose your power around that you give someone else the power when you react something around the way that you said you're creating a human meta-narrative yeah whether you realize that yeah yeah I'm talking about Mandela oh and with your Franco with your Franco and your popular partner k-much King and Gandhi huh alright and and you're you're just naturally painting a picture of human ideals yeah this is what humanity's supposed to look like yeah right or that's what's possible right yeah it but if there is nothing beyond the material world then they're not in any way different than Mussolini and Genghis Khan and Hitler mm-hmm but yet nothing in your soul tells you that those are the aspirations of what it means to be human think about this just room we've gone back to this early conversation because I thought I'd like you ever seen some act and you thought that was inhumane uh-huh but the only the only species that can commit an inhumane act as a human when you look at a tiger eating a gazelle you don't think it's an animal enough you know or killer right you guys say Olli just like that just that just life yeah but when a human does something that an animal does in the wild we intrinsically know it's inhumane Howie how was it possible for a human being to be so self-aware that something a human does seemingly naturally would be unnatural and that's why I Louis I think that I think there's a divine narrative in us that our souls actually keep whispering to us there's more inside of you than you know mmm Ashley that out what's the ideal just don't realize you're preaching the gospel I know you know you gotta you gotta you gotta meet people with their app to the warp the masses know you believe this of course you've made it your whole life and of course yeah yeah and what I would say is you're exactly right you are aspiring for the great not just your greatness you're aspiring to quality greatness and all absolutely if that's my mission so then you believe there's this this this thread throughout the human spirit then it connects us all together yeah it's more than math yeah what would you say your you talked about ideals and beliefs in the beginning like its belief system and these ideals what we just say is like a core ideals that you think is the most aspirational ideals and beliefs and how often do your beliefs evolve over time yeah that's a good question because I think that because when you were 10 you had a belief system and then it evolved yeah I never you're 20 or 30 maybe you you're like oh I thought this was the truth but maybe there's something else here yeah I think a part of it is so sometimes we put data and truth in the same category mm or information and in truth and and I think I had the other I'm the opposite I was a person who didn't find it easy to commit to traverse it so I wasn't I was never a dogmatic person so a lot of people who are highly dogmatic they go through dramatic shifts of I believe this now I believe this now I believe this I was always more fluid I was like I don't know you know I could see I can see value in everything you know and so I was again studying Norris and Greek and Roman and Egyptian mythology and never read them in with any level of judgment like I never thought to myself this is less fiber than this and less valuable than this and less valuable than this I always was just looking for what where's the story that I'm in and what did what makes sense to me and and it's kind of odd like every mythology seems to have the good guy the bad guy and the dad who's trying to you know partner dream them right you know and sure and and isn't that what seems to be going on inside of us there's that there's that part of us that aspires to be great and God and the part of us that just wants to consume and taken and then there's this almost as other voice trying to call us to who we were created to be and and you know and so I I don't think my beliefs changed in terms of and the dogmatic way I think my my beliefs were always growing and evolving and changing I think some of my beliefs were hopes you know like I didn't have a lot of proof growing up that the world was good mm-hm but I believed the world was good that there could be goodness to be found out there in fact a lot of it before ever had any belief in Jesus Christ I had this aspiration to end poverty in the world at an aspiration to do something truly humane in the world and that's why it was odd for me when I would hear Christians say oh no no there's nothing good in you unless you know you give your life to Jesus I'm like I don't think you've got that one right I think that every human being aspires to do something good unless they've been so broken and corrupt but I don't think it's the it's I don't think it's the way humans are intended to be I think that's the deviation I actually think we're created for good and that good just feels right yeah you know and it feels good it does it you know and and I'm you're healthy when you're there I mean obviously coming to faith in Jesus it was a huge both psychological and worldview shift for me like I remember her something philosophy in college I was one of those guys we had knows no reason to be in school of just reading philosophy right you know and and we studied Christianity for like five minutes my professor get up there I mean we spent so much time on Socrates and Plato Aristotle and Locke Hume Day card and he brings me everybody got a lot of time but but a Christianity got like three minutes the guy said this is the book that says that God is when you read this passage about war in the Old Testament he said in that ridiculous how and the world could this feed the God of love and he laughed and I laughed and in my mind I thought yeah that's not a viable option you know it took me about two or three minutes to decide Christianity was not a viable option for my life and so when I began to encounter more this message of Jesus it was disruptive and and I you know and I would argue with people who believed in God and and they were terrible at are you doing you know and just kept justifying why you're right yeah no it's exactly so in college I would just go case they believe we got him I argue that there is no God and if they don't believe it got him harder there's a god I'm just gonna like for just and and we really a lot of it for me was I keep losing the argument I mean I keep winning the argument but I like them better than I like myself you like the Christians the way that's happened to me some guys yes yeah you know they seem like they were kind and filled with joy and and so I wish I could say it was intellectual and rational no academic but love it wasn't a lot of it was essential what kind of human do I want to be and at that point I was pretty much a gosh I would rather believe the wrong thing and be the right kind of person huh then believe the right thing and become the wrong kind of person because I met a lot of people who believe in God were so judgmental and dogmatic and condemning and and but then I knew a lot of my atheist friends who were like the arrogant and judgmental and condemning and and it was just both and and and and so that was a huge shift for me but I don't I don't know why but I don't it didn't feel like a shift in belief because I always wanted to believe that humans had intrinsic value and I wanted to believe that we matter don't want to believe that we're not specks of dust so maybe I was maybe I was predisposed to believe you know if you could look at it like that because when I would study scientific determinism I go alright wait a minute this means that there's no creativity there's no free will that features completely set that choice is an illusion they go yeah that's right I'd rather be wrong mmm and so something that's really pragmatic for me I look and go when what whatever what's the view of reality that makes me most fully alive and allows me to do the most good in the world the most beautiful and creative and expressive you know and and then when I believe that you've been imagined to imagine being created to create that you were both a work of art and an artist at work it just changed my whole view of reality and that's why I started mosaic I mean mosaic the name it's just an art form it's an art form of broken or fragmented pieces that are brought together to create something beautiful especially when light strikes to it Wow so I said hey look we're gonna be straight up we're all broken and fragmented we're the irregular pieces of the world and we're going to come together and we're gonna believe that gods who create something beautiful especially when he strikes his life through us it's kind of chills you know beautiful that was why I started mosaic and I said look if you want if you need to pretend you're perfect this is not the place for you if you need to pretend you got it all together and you just gonna feel really uncomfortable here if you need to follow someone who pretends they're perfect this is not the place for you're not the guy yeah my wife I say could you quit telling people that you don't know what you're doing or know where you're going and I go no I'm always gonna tell them the truth that way when I actually know where I'm going they'll know I'm telling the truth you know and and I think it's really helped because all the brokenness that my life came out of gives people hope like I don't write about ideals that I've never experienced you know I write out of the essence and struggle and reality my own life you know and I've needed peace in my life and then I'm so angry about the condition of our culture right now and how people just attack each other and then just destroy each other and social media has become such a negative space and only hanging and when we want to find everyone in their worst moment and and and I we got to change the narrative here we have to be for each other yeah and I think it's funny there's this a woman in the Bible called Rahab a prostitute and she makes one choice that changes her life and there are four women in the genealogy of Jesus and where there's a prostitute Wow people talk about that yeah yeah you know that's right some people's look you're you're just one choice away from the life you've always longed for I don't let anybody tell you that you've trashed it for 40 years and you know it's too late for you you just all you need right now just one good choice and that that one good choice is gonna get momentum in your life yeah and just keep moving forward and um so I you know straight these student first to 12th grade I couldn't get into college my English teacher my last day of high school said you will never make it Wow and you know million copies later of the books so I'm going baking it I just want to be a metaphor that it's never too late and and everyone has something of value inside of them yeah I love that I feel like I can connect with you a lot on your story in your life and your experiences and you've got this book I have a few questions final for you but this book is called the way of the warrior an ancient path to inner peace and the reason I'm attracted to this when Joel told me about it I said okay I got a I got to read this in an interview Irwin is because for my whole life I was focused on success and accomplishment and achievement to gain love right because when I would win in sports I would get acknowledgement yeah friends would like me you know parents everything so I just said I have to win at all costs everything I do not translated into relationships and that's never a good thing business everything I came from a very loving compassionate place until something was on the line and I really needed to win then it was just like nothing else matters we are winning at all costs right and up until I hit about 30 I'm 35 now almost 36 I was so accomplished but never felt a sense of inner peace and then I want a journey for the last five six years of like reinventing myself and rediscovering what is greatness what is success and I told Maria Shriver when I had I was like you know for me you can't achieve greatness without inner peace yeah and until you have and it doesn't matter all the money in the success and accomplishments if you feel a lack of inner peace your I don't think you're living a great life mm-hmm if you're not living a life of service if your mission isn't attached to helping other people I don't feel like you can find that inner peace as well I'm not saying you need to save the world and end hunger in the world but there's got to be a part of your life that is on a mission to help the people around you I think that helps you bring more inner peace so for me greatness is really around cultivating the gifts that we have within us bringing them out to pursue our dreams and in that pursuit making the maximum impact we can on people around us but also finding that inner peace and so I love that you talk about you know being a warrior is finding inner peace and then the back of your your book here just everything you talk about resonates with me so I'm excited about this and I want everyone to go get a copy because I think it's gonna be very powerful for you and this this episode has already gone and almost an hour and a half and the time is flown because I've just been so captivated by your message and your essence and your creativity in the way you think so the books out and now you guys can go get it bookstores also where online what's your website for this easier make me as calm or Amazon yeah it's anyone it's up everywhere and I want to make sure you guys do get this book get one for a friend as well and I love this at the table it says in order to be ready for a battle you must first know peace I think that's the thing we're seeking the most you know where we're facing daily Wars around us whether it be trying to find a new job a career build our business the relationship struggles were in and we're always going to be struggling if we don't know how to find peace within us first would you agree or not absolutely yeah no I just got on a personal level loose one your really vote to be a fascinating person and just like almost be incredibly immediately likable there's really beautiful so that I feel like there's this one s between your brain in your soul because your soul believes as profoundly as mine of course yeah I think I'm always just very few No by the way when I wrote the book is crazy I was driving down Hollywood down vine and I was with my wife and I heard this I I have a vivid imagination I heard this voice and I heard this the first line of the book it was the Warriors not ready for battle until they have come to know peace oh this is the way of the warrior and I looked over at my wife I said I have my next book and I love Japanese culture I used to go to Japan a lot and love all the Japanese films and and it was Last Samurai oh my god last time I post no way of crossing Tiger Hidden Dragon signed by anguish you know and and I wrote this book as if it was an old samurai writing to a young samurai Lau passing on the wisdom and I think that the problem is that we have people who are at war but they're not at peace and and so I want to answer an individual and a global question because the world will never know peace and so we have inner peace war rages across the world because war rages within our hearts and the only way we're going to have world peace is some inner peace and so this is a battle for world peace one life at a time amazing I love this man I'm so excited for this guy I don't even get to any of the questions I had here sorry about that it's all good I was just so fascinated by everything it's actually good when I never have to read a question off of here because it means I'm just so enamored by the message okay couple final questions this one's called the three truths oh wow so you're sold million copies million we didn't get to like you know you just had cancer a couple years ago you went through the surgery and now you're cancer-free I'd love to know what cancer has talked to you about life and I don't know if we have time for this now don't know if you have to run or for my quickie that says nobody was hitting their cancer-free I always so I was always free of cancer does it never own me yeah that's great yeah that's great real quick answer then what is what happened what has that experience the illusion of having cancer and taught you about that illusion it was a reality we're all dying yeah but some of us are gripped by the fear of death and I think the only reason we're afraid of death is because we're actually afraid to live mmm and what I discovered when I was told I had cancer and I didn't know how long I would live was this beautiful realization that I was under overwhelm with regret because I felt like I'd lived every day of my life as fully as I knew how and and I could tell you that my family can confirm this to you I never felt afraid and there felt angry and there felt bitter and I gave myself permission to feel all of it because something is like to be human is permissible I don't need to pretend that no you know being a pastor or starting mosiac they don't need me to pretend they need to be real mm-hmm and so I took him through the process with me and I real and I started wondering why am I not afraid well that me there's something broken inside of me right I could now some people can't feel love or empathy or whatever at that there's something broken and I realized there's difference between being sad because you might lose something like I want to see my kids grow up get married have kids I want to see the world become a better place I still believe humanity's best days are ahead of them there's so much I want to experience to do but I didn't feel fear because I didn't wake up one day going oh no I don't have time to live a life was great to live yeah I think most of us are actually afraid of death because we realized we've only existed and we haven't truly lived yeah so these are the three truths imagine you get to pick the day when it's the last day for you on earth let's just say there has to be a day and you have to leave the body and move on to whatever is nice and it could be a hundred years from now it could be whenever you would want it to be and let's say you've accomplished everything and your imaginations want to create in the world you've done everything good you want to do you've seen your kids do everything you've had the life but for whatever reason the times times to go it's time to go and you've got to take all of your work with you so you all of your writings your books content video any content you put out got to take it with you so no one has access to that information anymore but they have a they give you a piece of paper before you take your last breath and you get to write down three things you know to be true from your whole life experience from all the crazy worlds you were living in all the questioning all the experience and the lessons you get to write down three final lessons or truths that you would share with the world what would you say your three truths I would say that the but of all things is love and that people are the only true value and that exists in the world and and that when everyone else thinks you're gone you've just gotten started Wow interesting that's a good third one okay make sure you guys get this book the way of the warrior an ancient path Dean or piece it's gonna change your life I already know how can we connect with you online personally where do you hang out the most on social media I love Instagram because I love taking photographs and and of course but right now my son and my his little media team are helping me get the book word out publisher we're gonna put a lot of video content on Irwin McManus calm okay so we've gone through when we shot like 10 to 15 minutes for every chapter of the book to go to it's all content that's not in the book great because in a book I might have 10% of my content Wow you know 90% of the content doesn't make it into the book and so so that's the best place that goes early McManus I come or go to the mosaic app because our church all my talks are there so I guess you guys have like 2 million people on your pocket okay credible we have a podcast at 2 1 it's my talks every Sunday Wow at mosaic daughter and my son and I have a podcast called battle-ready and that came out of when I had cancer and that's cool yeah so that became our theme was battle-ready when I had cancer because I did it I when I told him I had cancer I said hey look it just you just need to be battle-ready Wow so we've been doing that podcast and it's so raw and honest and and and I've left the joy is there that's cool okay I would acknowledge you're wearing for being a just a fresh breath of air for bringing so much love into this moment it's so much soul and spirit hands giving people a sense of hope who maybe you don't feel it right now there's a lot of people listening that are succeeding but I still feel like are missing that moment of inner peace and hope of like is there going to be a better tomorrow even though I'm succeeding you know these are gonna am I gonna feel something but I'm gonna have that love I'm gonna be able to get out of this toxic relationship so acknowledge you for being battle ready and for continuing to have a positive attitude through life-threatening experiences and constantly being in service to humanity I feel like that's the greatest measure of our human is how much they continue to want to serve so I can ology for all that and for for just showing up today man this was powerful for me and I'm very excited I hope to play basketball with you one day I hope to hang out more and I'm gonna come check out mosaic and hey this is a bucket list I've wanted get on your podcast when I first learned about the school of greatness there you go I thought one day I would just love to have a conversation with you so I want to thank you so much you've you've you've made my year I appreciate it I appreciate it this is the final question it's what's your definition of greatness oh well I have a whole chapter in the book on greatness and I I would say that the definition of greatness is what you've done for others mm-hmm Erwin thanks man appreciate you thank you brother hey thank you you

Channel: Lewis Howes

Views: 47,389

Rating: 4.8827257 out of 5

Keywords: lewis howes, the school of greatness, mosaic, erwin mcmanus, lewis howes kobe, mosaic art, lewis howes tony robbins, erwin mcmanus interview, 2019, cancer

Id: knj326_Fifg

Length: 75min 1sec (4501 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 25 2019