A response to trans critics | Peter Tatchell, Bobbi Pickard

and I never used to be able to recognize myself in mirrors my brain would expect to see someone female staring back at me but instead it saw someone that was male [Music] welcome everybody to this session uh my name is Bobby Picard I am a global diversity Equity the inclusion director and also CEO of transmit city which is the world's biggest corporate collaboration for Trans awareness I'm completely honored to be here actually with the absolutely amazing Peter tachel who I'm sure needs no introduction um but I'm sure um shares the love of of just about everybody that I've come across in the lgbtqia community I'm going to hand over to Peter um to start this session thanks thank you well it's great to be here I want to tell you that we offered to have a debate with a trans critic and we're told that no trans critic was willing to debate us on Friday Catherine stock a trans critic spoke here alone unchallenged with no trans person to debate her I just think it shows that the people who demonize and vilify trans people often don't have the guts to put their views to public scrutiny and to face challenge from people who are trans who've lived the experience I'm not trans but I am a trans Ally and have been for over 50 years but I'm also a supporter of women's Liberation as well you know women's rights are human rights and I have supported hundreds of women's rights campaigns over the last five decades both here in the UK and supporting women's struggles around the world so for me there can be no Liberation without women's liberation but equally for the same five decades I've supported the trans struggle for dignity respect and human rights I see no contradiction between trans and women's liberation there are two sides of the same coin both have my support I in particular Echo the views of many pro-trans feminists these are feminists who also believe that trans rights are compatible with feminism um I have opposed the transcritical views of people like Kathleen stock and others but I want to say that I do urge and then to the abuse and intimidation by some people on both sides of this debate that is not helpful we have to have this debate in a rational way in my view we have to change bigotry but threatening people and abusing people is not the way to go um I've also got to say that as a trans Ally trans people get the worst but as a trans Ally I get threats as well I've had threats from people who claim they support feminism and oppose trans rights I've had threats to have me killed castrated and raped to have my home burned down now that to me is Beyond The Pale but it's nothing by comparison to what a lot of trans people face which is why some trans people are not willing to have these debates because they fear the consequence of the intimidation and threats of violence and rape that they face my starting point in this debate I suppose is that biological sex is a fact it's a reality but so too is gender identity both are real biological sex and gender identity are different but they're equally valid trans women are woman but they're not the same as other women they are different from biological women but that difference is legitimate it should be accepted and respected so I respect both biological woman and trans woman Both Deserve respect dignity and rights now a lot of the trans critics argue that we have to maintain biological sex as the dominant issue in this debate they say that biological sex is the basis on which women are oppressed and that is partly true partly true in large parts of the world however women are also oppressed because they don't conform to the way women are supposed to dress speak and act in other words women are oppressed because of their gender non-conformity not their biological sex per se and this is very similar to the way in which trans people are oppressed because they don't conform to the expectations that go with their biological sex in other words trans people and many biological women are both oppressed because they don't conform to gender roles and stereotypes transcritic sometimes to me seem determined to police and reinforce a strict male female divide rather than break down and overcome those barriers and divisions now I happen to think that a sex and gender revolution would be a very good thing I think historically we've been putting boxes male female masculine feminine you're supposed to behave this way or that way that has been so oppressive it doesn't give an understanding or an acceptance about individual diversity I've been around so long that I was involved in supporting the women's Liberation movement in the early 1970s and one of the battle cries of the women's Liberation movement five decades ago was biology is not destiny but now some trans critics say biology is Destiny it's a complete reversal of what the women's movement stood for five decades ago I think it's a very regressive step um obviously biology is a reality but progressives should be doing everything in their power to limit its adverse consequences for both women and trans people so as I said like many women many feminists I stand with trans people I support protection for them and for other women it is totally right that we should be concerned about women's safety that's an absolute thing that we should all be concerned about that's a valid valid concern but it doesn't require or Justify a blanket exclusion of trans women from women's spaces the idea that all trans women should be excluded from certain women's spaces is based upon a preemptive assumption in fact a form of punishment or restriction based on who trans people are not what trans people have done the transcript is saying because you are trans regardless of what you've ever done in your life you should be excluded from these spaces that's outrageous to punish and restrict People based on an assumption of what they might do or could do now I've got friends who work in women's centers around the country and I know several that have accepted trans women for in one case so far seven years with the agreement of the staff and with the women users they tell me they have never had a problem of trans people in their Women's Center never had a problem at all so again the idea that exclusion should be the presumption which is what transcritics are arguing for I think is not backed up by the evidence now these women's centers that all women users and they rightly exclude anyone trans or not trans who acts in an abusive threatening or harmful way you know there is one woman set up where they did have problems it was from a biological woman who was harassing other women in the center for sex wasn't a trans woman it was a biological woman and they dealt with that through the normal protection procedures when it comes to the whole issue about toilets I mean you know trans women have been using toilets for decades without a problem no one has noticed there's never been an issue but now suddenly it's a big big issue I mean many institutions from the schools that I go to talk to to Pride events and even to GB news which is not exactly trans friendly they all have gender neutral toilets you go to a Pop Festival they're all gender-neutral toilets no problem this is a hypothetical scaremongering that has no basis in fact because those gender-neutral toilets have lockable cubicles so the women who use them are perfectly safe and secure now obviously there are some exceptions so any person who claims to be a trans woman but presents with a beard or engages in sexual harassment or exposes male genitals in women's spaces well that's not on they should be ejected and if they're engaged in harassment of course they should be prosecuted but so far I haven't heard of I've only heard about two examples where that's happened two examples out of millions of instances around the world people really are clutching at straw to use this as an argument against trans people um sexual harassment and unwanted genital exposure that could cause offense is obviously wrong it shouldn't be tolerated regardless of whether it's perpetrated by by biological woman or trans woman however as I said unacceptable trans Behavior uh in toilets or women's changing rooms has almost never happened there have been a few instances but only as few and it's totally unrepresentative of how almost all trans women behave respecting the dignity and sensitivity of other women so let's not exaggerate based on a handful of examples where bad things have been done if we look at women on women violence and sexual assault much of it is perpetrated not by trans women but by biological women so I can think of instances where biological women have sexually harassed or been violent towards other women once again there may be a handful of instances where trans women have done this but in many cases it is biological women who are doing the violence the harassment and so on so obviously any woman including trans woman with a history of violent or sexual offenses against women should not be placed in the general population of a woman's prison if they have us this history and record of sexual or other violence they should not be placed in the general population the same as a biological wound a biological woman who's a threat to other women should not be placed in the general prison population unless of course there is clear evidence that they have reformed and we need to hold out the hope of redemption and reform to those who have done bad things but even then in a woman's prison um those people trans or biological women should be subject to monitoring and review as would happen in every other case you know when biological women do bad things they are put under Supervision in a prison um if there is evidence that a trans woman is an ongoing threat to other women or a biological woman who's an ongoing threat to other women they should probably be placed in a separate unit within a woman's prison and they should not be permitted to mix with the general woman's population unless there is Staff supervision and this is the policy that's already adopted by many prisons anyway and it doesn't just apply to trans women applies to biological one who have been guilty of violence or sexual assault so what I'm trying to say is when it comes to the prison issue this is an example of how we can reach an acceptable a way of dealing with these practical problems where we can deal with legitimate concerns about women's welfare and safety but not have blanket discrimination against trans women as I said it's very wrong to demonize and exclude trans Woman based on what a few may do in the same way it's wrong to demonize and exclude all Muslims because a tiny handful are terrorists now no decent person would say just because these handful of tiny tiny handful of Muslims are terrorists that we should have restrictions on the whole Muslim population but some people are saying that same thing when it comes to Trends because a handful of done bad things all trans women should be penalized I just don't accept that because most trans women the vast majority of trans women are no threat or danger to any woman whatsoever trans woman are not the enemy of other women the fight by some feminists and some woman against trans inclusion is a huge distraction from the very major inequalities and abuses that all women including trans women are at risk of so we should be focusing on violence against women including trans women rape harassment domestic abuse unequal pay lack of affordable child care under representation in senior positions in government and business and the trafficking of women into sexual slavery and domestic servitude those are far bigger more damaging issues and I just look now and see how some feminists are putting so much energy into this trans issue to the neglect of these other issues that really have a far greater damaging impact upon women's lives um you know these are really serious issues and they should be the focus um I believe that we should all Stand Together whatever our biological sex or gender identity to oppose sexist injustices as they affect women including trans women let's not divide and fight each other it weakens both the trans movement and the women's movement the only people who gain from transculture Wars are misogynists transphobes religious conservatives and the far right all of whom back transcritical campaigners and that ought to be a really major issue of concern when I post in support of trans people I get so much toxic hate I can cope with it but I look at who's doing it I click on them and their profile these are people who are out and out misogynists they're anti-immigrant they're racist they're homophobic they're just using the trans debate created by some trans feminists anti-trans feminists to further their own extreme agenda to me we have to fight both misogyny and transphobia unity and solidarity together we are stronger and together we all win thank you [Applause] what he said should we go and have an early lunch um I said before I was really honored to be here and I am really honored to be here and you know I feel like I really shouldn't be here and I shouldn't be here actually because 48 of trans people attempt suicide in their lifetime 85 percent have some form of depression through their lives 92 percent have suicide gladiation nine out of ten trans people seriously consider taking their own lives and that's nothing to do with this being trans I've been trans all my life I came to terms with being trans when I was about six years old I've been perfectly fine with it ever since what those figures reflect is our society not allowing trans people to be themselves not allowing trans and non-binary people to live their own lives how they need to live how they need to survive if there's any other part of our society that had anywhere near those figures we'd be up in arms and we'd be trying to figure out why that was happening and trying to resolve it instead we're in a situation at the moment where the only voices being heard are anti-trans people coming up with hypothetical scare-mongering stories and making the situation worse and that situation is being made worse by online media it's being made worse by print media it's being made worse by the broadcast media Peter gave a great example there of this great trans debate there is no real trans debate because the only voices people are hearing are anti-trans people and we've seen people like Kathleen stock have their own session here at this Festival just to say her point of view and she's completely entitled to her point of view I don't have a problem with her having her own point of view thank you but I've seen four or five speakers at this Festival with anti-trans views giving their points of views the only trans person I've seen at this Festival is me and I'm here at the invitation of Peter to speak so there is no debate there's just far right wing people and anti-trans people talking about trans people when they know nothing about our lives I like I said have been trans all of my life being trans is a perfectly natural thing we've known we've seen the indications now for at least 70 years that it's caused by hormonal development or hormonal receptivity on the brain it's as natural as being red-headed actually it's about when you look globally around about the same amount of percentage of people that are redheaded are trans and all it means is that your biological sex and your gender identity in simplest possible terms the biological sex the sex of your body and your gender identity the sex of your brain are different to each other and if you're not trans and I know lots of people don't like the term they don't like the label cisgender is the scientific term if you're not trans um loads of people don't like labels and I completely appreciate that I don't like labels myself so if you're not trans and your biological sex and your gender align then you've probably never considered that they could be two separate things you'd probably never thought that they could be different to each other but they absolutely can and if they are different to each other then you feel the effect and that affects that you feel that gender dysphoria that stress that you feel when you have your biological sex is one thing and your gender identity as another can be extreme your body always wants to bring itself into line with your brain you you know it's nature nature always loves an equilibrium you can't change your brain but you can change your body you can change how you express yourself and you can alleviate those feelings of gender dysphoria and it's easiest form for me different trans people non-binary people experience gender dysphoria in different ways it's easiest form for me gender dysphoria feels like that really horrible sinking feeling that something's gone wrong you know you've gone through a speed camera and it's flashed at you or you've opened up an exam paper and you've looked at all the questions and you've realized that you can't answer anything you know that really horrible deep sinking horrible feeling you know that feeling the night before when you're sitting in your motor home thinking oh God I'm speaking in the Hat tomorrow at 11 o'clock and I haven't got the foggiest idea of what I'm going to say that type of horrible thinking feeling that's gender dysphoria at its easiest at its worst it's made me physically sick it's made me shake it gives you such a feeling of disassociation you know we all have an internal vision of Who We Are we all do we all hold that we net within ourselves who we are as a person what we look like our being and I've had that all my life like everybody else as well but as far as my brain's concerned I'm female so I used to get up in the morning I used to wander into the bathroom look in the bathroom mirror and my brain would expect to see someone female staring back at me but instead it saw someone that was male and I never used to be able to recognize myself in mirrors even to the point I used to wander around shopping centers those big floor-to-ceiling shopping center mirrors that you see in shopping centers used to take me two or three seconds to try and guess who I was in the crowd of people mainly by you know the clothes that that person was wearing that not being able to recognize yourself causes such disassociation because when your brain doesn't receive what it believes to be reality then it assumes that you're dreaming it assumes you're in a lucid dream so it disassociates you from real life you can't interact with people you can't make that societal connection with people because you're not really here 16th of September 2016 after 35 years of suicide gladiation and lots of attempts I found myself standing at the side of a road in Crawley on a humpback Bridge um on a blind Bend where um loads of huge huge typologies you know there's really massive ones were coming to and from a waste disposal site I used to work in the most lovely areas um and I just decided that I'd had enough that pressure that's put on You by society and that pressure that you put on you yourself because you can't bring yourself into equilibrium was too much and I stepped out in front of one Lorry and just got the timing wrong and the wing mirror clipped the the front of my hair and I was going to step out in front of the next lorry when I realized I hadn't written the songs out that I wanted for my funeral and I'm a musician I've always been a musician and that was so important to me I just wanted that one bit of my life to be me to reflect the real me to be the one bit of all of that 48 years of life where I could have said here I am and I stood at that road for a while and decided to go home and write out the list of songs and come back the next day and I got halfway home and I heard a song on the radio and that I think made me angry enough to want to carry on and that gave me an extra day and then an extra week and an extra month then after about nine months I decided finally that I was going to transition or actually the choice I had was either to get on and kill myself or try to transition and I decided that I may as well try transitioning because if it didn't work I could always kill myself afterwards so I did transition finally and there's a whole story around transitioning there you know transitioning isn't just medical transitioning because of that alignment that adjusting of the equilibrium that trans people always do they're always transitioning to some extent but I medically transitioned came out finally to the last few people that that didn't know and it was the best thing I'd ever done I went from having a bleak existence with no color in the world to seeing every single color on every single blade of grass and flower I get such Joy from the world just by being in it just by interacting with people I used to be a person that couldn't walk into a room of more than two or three people because I was forever trying to hide who I was and now I can stand on stage sit on stage and talk to people like you I can enjoy life this is what you give trans people when you allow them to be trans when you allow them to transition you don't give them back their life you give them life you give them color you give them Joy you allow them to flourish and isn't that that flourishing in our life isn't that what we all want isn't that what we want for ourselves isn't that what we want for other people isn't that what every single person in our society in the world deserves Peter's so very eloquently given us the facts to debunk the myth the real myth is that trans people are a problem we're not we just want to live we just want to flourish we just want to be part of the same society that you are thank you [Applause] for more debates talks and interviews subscribe today to The Institute of Arts and ideas at IAI TV

Channel: The Institute of Art and Ideas

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Keywords: learning, education, debate, lecture, IAItv, institute of art and ideas, IAI, philosophy

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Length: 30min 16sec (1816 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 01 2023