A Protestant Tours a Catholic Cathedral

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(pipe organ music) - Oh, this is incredible. - Welcome, Cathedral of the Madeleine. (electronic beeping) - Hey, I'm Matt, this is the Ten Minute Bible Hour and whether you're into the whole Christianity thing or not, I bet you've heard of Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. These are two different expressions of Christian faith, they're kind of two of the three really big ones, historically. And Protestantism is about a 500 year old expression that was born out of Roman Catholicism. Some theological issues were percolating and people were debating them and ultimately these two groups ended up deciding we're just doing different things here, we think different stuff. And there's this parting of ways. So like your Lutherans, your Methodists, your Baptists, these are all different types of Protestants, whereas Roman Catholicism continues to be kind of a singular, monolithic thing. I've always had pretty good relationships with Roman Catholics. I've always had pretty high regard for Roman Catholicism, but it occurred to me the other day that pretty much everything I know about Roman Catholicism has been taught to me, told to me, explained to me by other protestants. And I just thought you know, at some point it would be pretty cool to go and hear what Roman Catholics think and see what they do by talking to an actual Roman Catholic in an actual Roman Catholic church. So I put out feelers with a whole bunch of different churches and one got back to me called the Cathedral of the Madeleine in Salt Lake City which is actually secretly who I was really hoping would get back to me. And they were kind enough to take a flyer on some protestant stranger from the internet and invite me there with a camera to see what happens. So I went, I met with Father Martin Diaz, and well, here's what happened. Hello, Father Diaz? - Hi. - Am I saying that right? - Yes. - Father is the correct title? - That's the correct title, welcome, welcome to the Cathedral of the Madeleine. - All right, thank you, thank you, I'm Matt Goodman nice to meet you sir. - Matt, great to meet you. - I'm walking in here clueless. I have a billion things to learn, and the first thing I see as I walk up is that the front of your church looks a lot different than the front of my church. Can you just walk me through what this means? - This is called a tympanum, - Okay. - And it's of course the crucifix there and you have Jesus in front. And this is Jesus the High Priest, or Jesus Christ the King. - [Matt] Okay. - All right, the idea of course is that you're being welcomed by Christ, Christ is sitting on top of the world and so that coming into Christ who is the universal salvation. - Are those like straight up Notre Dame style gargoyles up there? - They're actually fake now. - Oh they are? - So they deteriorated so much from 1909 to 1993 when we did the restoration that they were taken down and fashioned out of concrete and then put back up. So they do not work as gargoyles. Gargoyles are downspouts. - Yeah. Why make them look like that, like Griffins, and like some of the gargoyles that I've seen even look kind of like demonic. - Yeah, to keep away, kind of scare off the evil. - Okay, so that's kind of a leftover from European folklore - [Father Diaz] Sure, sure. - [Matt] And stuff like that. Well, I'm glad you stuck with it because they're incredible. Okay, so this stained glass window up here that I'm looking at, - [Father Diaz] The rose window. - It is called the rose window? - Yes. - It's like Notre Dame. - Yes, they're all called rose windows if they're round. - Oh, so that's, - The round rose petal, and the idea of that is the rose petals. So that's why it's called a rose window. - See, I'm already learning things. I thought it was like some special nickname that was like this special unique thing for just this one place. - Like rose color or something, but no. - See, this is why you ask questions. - [Father Diaz] Yes, yes. - I guess you have to have a building that can support that size of an open space in order to accommodate that kind of stained glass. - [Father Diaz] Right. - Is there stained glass inside too? - Yes. - Can we go poke around? - Sure. - All right, let's do it. - [Father Diaz] Let's go. Welcome, Cathedral of the Madeleine. - [Matt] It's stunning. - [Father Diaz] Angels at the top, and down here the ground and the earth here at the bottom. - [Matt] How long did it take to make this? - [Father Diaz] So it took 10 years to build the cathedral. It was started in 1899 and was completed in 1909. - Where do I even start? I mean there's so much going on in here in terms of imagery. Maybe you could just walk me through the stained glass and what these represent and the story behind them to start with. - Where do we start with the stained glass? (men laughing) The side windows are the mysteries of the rosary. So it starts with the angel with Mary, Mary going to Elizabeth, Mary and Joseph the birth of Jesus, the presentation in the temple, and then Jesus at 12 years old in the temple. On this side then the three mysteries of the rosary that are not in the Bible. This mystery is the Holy Spirit coming upon the Apostles, the Pentecost, and then the last two, Mary taken into heaven and Mary crowned as Queen of Heaven and Earth. So that's the mysteries of the rosary and the rose window, again rose windows are classical in this kind of a cathedral. In the center is Saint Cecilia. And she is known for music, so she is depicted with kind of a rudimentary organ. Because that's where the organ loft is. So Saint Cecilia is the patron saint of music and that's why she's in there. And we have, - I'm learning stuff. The Foo Fighters have an album, or a song called Saint Cecilia and I had no idea why they'd pick on that, now I get it. - Right, right, yes, the patron saint. - I'm learning things about rock music from your rose window. - Kind of the masterpiece if you will is in the apps. So Jesus is divine, 100% divine, 100% human, so it's earth, humankind, and divinity, it's the sky, the heavens and the earth coming together. You're entering sacred space which is where you, even though we're grounded on earth, are touching heaven. So for us, the eucharist is three events in one. So it's the last supper, so every mass is the last supper, every mass is in the present moment, and every mass is the banquet in heaven. - Now you're saying that word is, with tremendous emphasis. - So it is, there's only one event, there's only one sacrifice. - So it's not a repetition of that event, - It's not a recollection, it's not, - It's an atemporal version of that event. - Right, it is the last supper. There's only one sacrifice. - [Matt] Okay. - It's it's Jesus, - Do you see my protestant brain trying to wrap it, - Right, so it's the cross. He only died once for all, once for all. And the last supper is the unbloody sacrifice of the cross, okay. - Fascinating, okay, all right. - So this is my body, this is my blood which is offered on the cross, it's his body and blood that redeems us. His death, and so every time we have mass, heaven and earth come together. Whether you're in the Cathedral of the Madeleine or you know, in a, - So it's all one mass. - It's all one mass. - Okay. - All one event, but it's outside of our, so we left the world behind, we left time and space outside. We left our world outside, we're in a world, and whether we're in this space or we're in a village someplace in Cambodia or Africa or whatever country that would be you know, it's the same heaven and earth coming together. And so our architecture and art help to depict that. - Yeah, okay. - Help us to understand that. But it's not necessary, does that make sense? - Yeah, I wanna go all the way down the rabbit hole with you on like the mechanics of that. Maybe when we sit down I can pick your brain more about how that happens. - But you also, so this is a cruciform church, right? So you've got the crucifix up there, and then this is a crucifix. So the altar in this, so this is architectural for this church, not the altar doesn't have to be here, but in this architecture the altar is where the heart is. So the pouring out of God's love from his heart - [Matt] Okay. - comes from the altar. So this is the gifts of grace flow from the altar and behind the heart is the head. In the cathedral, what makes a cathedral to be a cathedral is the chair, the cathedra. It's unique to every diocese has a cathedral with a cathedra. - But not every church. - Not every church, just cathedrals. And there's one in every diocese. - Okay. - And so that's our chair for the Diocese of Salt Lake City. - Who sits in that chair? - So that's uniquely the Bishop of our Diocese, that's his chair uniquely. So the chair sits at the head because the head of our diocese is the Bishop. - So does he celebrate mass weekly here? Is he around a lot? How does that even, - Well luckily he's not around a lot. No, (men laughing) - Keep that. (men laughing) - So he's here not every Sunday but a lot of Sundays and then the special celebrations that we have. - [Matt] So does he conduct those services when he's here, or do you? - No, he does. - Okay. This looks like a European coat of arms up above. - [Father Diaz] Correct. - [Matt] What does this mean? - So each coat of arms is meant to pull something out of the area or the person. His coat of arms is a three part coat of arms coming out of who he is. And the saying underneath, the motto changes from Bishop to Bishop. - Seems like there's a lot of moving parts. Is this, do you teach from here? - So that's the scripture is read from the ambo. Only scripture and sermon, homilies are given from there. We feed on the word of God from the table of the ambo, all right? - What does ambo mean? - Pulpit, it just means stand. - Okay. - You know some fancy word in either Greek or Latin. - That sounds good to me. - I don't know, yeah, and so we talk about the two tables of the eucharist. You know you go back to Acts of the Apostles, what did they do? When they met for the breaking of the bread they read the scriptures which of course for them was what we call the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures. They read from the scriptures and the breaking of the bread. So every mass is reading the scripture, breaking the bread. - So then if that's what you do in every mass and every mass is the same, then everyone is always taking communion, the eucharist together. - Yes, so we are at one as Jesus says may they all be one as the Father and I are one. So in communion we are one. Because it's a sacrament, it does what it says it does. It has a reality that's beyond your reality. It makes you one. - It's almost like translating two languages from all of the language that I've been raised around my whole life in you know the protestant notion of symbolism, that we are, you know this is a separate thing and we are commemorating an event that we would view as a singular event at the cross. And so it's fascinating, it's pushing me, and I appreciate the idea of the universality of that singular event because well, of course the cross was one event, I've just never really thought about the Lord's Supper, the eucharist being a singular event as well. So do you serve from here then? - So then the altar and so the first part of the mass we have the chair for the prayers at the beginning, then the scriptures, the sermon, homily. Then we move into the second part which is the eucharist. So the bread and wine is prepared on the altar, usually we have a procession with the bread and wine and then the eucharistic prayer, the consecratory prayer doing what Jesus did at the Last Supper. This is my body, this is my blood, so that all takes place on the altar. And then that part is over, we move into the communion part which it starts with The Lord's Prayer. So there's an exchange of peace that we do also in our rite. And then from the altar we take communion to the people. And this is, so what we're supposed to be doing is that the people are supposed to come to the altar to receive communion. Like you would come to the table at home, you sit down at the table to eat, so they're supposed to be coming. So the idea of the procession is that you're coming to eat at the altar. - So they line up right down the middle here? - They line up, but of course they don't come up to the altar because it's, there are too, you know, - Logistically. - Logistically, not gonna work. - Okay, all right, all right. - But that was in the past when you had an altar rail around where people took communion from the altar rail, the rail was an extension of the altar. So they come in procession because it's an altar call. - Oh, again that language means something a little different in my tradition. - It's an altar call. So if you believe in Jesus, if Jesus is your Savior, if you want to receive the body and blood of Jesus, come on up. That's what, we don't say it that way, - So a non-confirmed protestant could take communion? - No, so only, - So if you believe and you've been confirmed. - And yeah, you sign the catholic doctrine, you can come in. - All right, all right, all right, I'm trackin'. - Because it's that one, - I wasn't trying to get greedy. - No, no, because it was that oneness. If we're gonna be all, if it's everybody one, then we all doctrinally need to be one. - Okay. - Okay, so there's I must admit there's probably some people that have received first communion, - Some real sneaky ones? - Yeah, see them come in. We preserve the blessed sacrament in a tabernacle. - Oh, is that what this is? - Behind here, and we can go. Let me show you the tabernacle. - Yeah, I'd love to see it. - So the tabernacle here, is where we keep the blessed sacrament. We have a light that lets people know that there, and it's just the communion that's left over. - And you can't untransubstantiate what is already the body and blood of Christ? - You cannot untransubstantiate. - Okay. - So once it's the eucharist, it is the eucharist. - Which happens there. - So once you say the prayer, it is Jesus. - So what is in here is all post prayer, - The little tiny hosts. - Okay. - And that. - And so it's all post prayer that's in here. - Post prayer. So we preserve that in here and we use it. And then over the centuries people said well, you know if I believe that was Jesus over there then I believe that's Jesus here, and I'm gonna come and pray, well where am I gonna come and pray? Pray in an empty building? No, I'm gonna come and pray and then I'm gonna light a candle and then you know, and now two thousand years later, here we are. - So this is in Roman Catholic theology, this is part of the presence of Christ, - Right, right, and in this church it's here again because it belongs, I mean in a way you would say that the head is right here in this cruciform, you know, so again, so everything is Christ. Christ is the altar, Christ is the people, Christ is the eucharist, everything. Everything says it's Jesus. - You're connecting the dots with all of that for me better than anybody ever has, so thank you for your patience with my, - You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome. - My fifth grade level questions here. Something else that stands out to me back here, this, - So that's a reliquary. - I kinda suspected it might be. - So that's a reliquary and a reliquary has something based on a saint. So what we say is that that is a relic of Saint Mary Magdalene who is the patron saint of our church. Cathedral of the Madeleine is Mary Magdalene. - [Matt] So there's something a couple thousand years old in there? - Yeah, so a little tiny bone fragment, and that's all we know. - Okay. - I mean, we only have that and it's believed that that's that. - And that's, tucked away in the tiny little - Tucked away in the you know behind the fleur de lis in there you know, and that. And then Mary Magdalene of course is at the foot of the cross. So Mary Magdalene appears three or four times in the church. - Is this a reminder, or is there a spiritual reality to, - It's a reminder that we're connected, we're connected to our patron saint. And it just turns out that our patron saint knew Jesus. - Even though she's a part of the church triumphant, that relic, does that mean that she is present in the same way that Christ is present? - Oh no, no not at all. - So no more, she would be like any other believer, - It's reverence, but this is Jesus. - So he is here, she is remembered. - Right, right, right. And it's just meant to make a connection, and most people probably don't even know that that's a relic of Saint Mary Magdalene. This is called the ambry. - [Matt] Ambry. - Ambry, so every church has an ambry which is where the holy oils are kept. So these are the oils, the urns that are actually blessed every year, the oil inside is blessed by the Bishop. - This Bishop. - This Bishop. - Okay, and where does the oil come from, what is it made of? - It's olive oil. Olive oil and then the Chrism has a balsam perfume in it. - So it's all the same oil. Is there some sort of spiritual transformation or transaction that's occurring? - The blessing is for each oil in particular. So the oil for the sick is a healing blessing. The oil of the Catechumens, meaning those who are coming into the church is a, well Catechumens are kind of a spiritual kind of get out the evil blessing, if you will. - The gargoyles. - Yeah, and then the Chrism oil is the Christ oil, is the anointing oil of confirmation, ordination, and that, the sealing and the configuring to Christ oil. And in that oil, when it's blessed, the Bishop breathes on the oil, because his spirit, like God breathed into the dirt and got Adam and Eve, so the Bishop breathes into it for his spirit then resides, Christ's spirit resides in that oil, because he is Christ for us in the sense of you know, a vicar of Christ if you will. One who stands in the place of Christ, and then that. - So is it oil instead of water because of a reference to like the Old Testament anointing? - Yeah, the anointing, so you know when they anointed a king, Samuel anoints David, he breaks the horn of oil, pours it on top of him, and so that's in that. - Okay. - And in James, you know call the presbyters, have them pray over you, - Oh yeah. - And you know anointed with oil. - Is this another relic here? - This is a relic of the true cross. So this is, in Catholic theology, so we have very small pieces of the cross of Jesus. So that's, we have one. - So this would be the one recovered by Saint Helena in the fourth century? - Right, in the fourth century, so they say that pieces of that have been spread throughout the world, and we have one. - It's, yes. - I mean the historian in me just wants to be like well, how do you, - How do you know that and how did it work? We have one. - So we come down here. Is there significance to the baptismal font being at the foot of the cross? - So the baptismal font is for the entrance into the church. - Okay. - So it doesn't have to be here at the entrance to the church, - [Matt] Okay. - But we were able in our 1993 restoration to place the baptismal font here. And because it's the first sacrament, so it's a sacrament of initiation, so how do you get into the church? - Interesting. - You were baptized, right, - I just never thought of it as being chronological. - So before you are baptized, you are not a member of the church, you are not a member of the body of Christ, correct, right? - It's different in other traditions, but yes, I understand. - I mean, you're a pagan. You're not a Christian. Here we have our confessionals. - Tell me about that. - Let me show you. So again, they don't have to be where they are. - Okay. - But in this church, they're on either side. So not every church has an ornate wood carved confessional. We're lucky, okay. In our confessional there are two sides. So I don't know, - Am I allowed to go in? - You can come on in, only if you're a sinner. - Oh, well good! I can do that with enthusiasm. - In our confessional, the priest sits on one side and the people have a choice. They can sit, talk face to face, or kneel and speak anonymously through a screen. And surprisingly enough, people will kind of look and say hello, and then kneel down anonymously. - [Matt] Oh really? - For many people the anonymous is I'm not talking to this priest, I'm talking to God. The priest is just listening for God, and they want to talk to God and say okay God, these are my sins and this is where I need help. Others when people sit face to face often it becomes more of a conversation. These are my sins, you know, can you give me some advice and help and that. And each confession takes three minutes, five at the most. Unless someone really wants to talk. It's a very short experience. Come in, when was my last confession? These are my sins, here is a penance, here is the absolution, I'm sorry for my sins, absolution, blessing, out we go. - What is a penance? - So the penance is something that you do that kind of says you were sincere. - Okay, so like stopping doing the bad thing I was doing? - It's usually like saying an Our Father, praying an Our Father, praying a Hail Mary, praying maybe a decade of the rosary. - I'm so ignorant, what are those? - So the Hail Mary? - Yeah, or the Our Father. - Lord's Prayer. - Oh, okay, we call it the Lord's Prayer. - Sorry, Lord's Prayer. - We got a difference language. - I thought what, you don't know the Our Father? No, it's the Lord's Prayer. - I do know that one actually. - So I always say pray one Our Father and one Hail Mary. Hail Mary is the prayer that comes from the angel. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Angel Gabriel, and then the last part is Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. So it's just asking Mary, pray for us now, the hour of our death. - Okay. - And so sacrament of healing. People go to confession once a year, twice a year, once a month, so it's just, everyone has a different kind of style for, kind of time period. - On Netflix is Daredevil which is my main source of information about confession. - Okay. (Father Diaz laughing) - It seems like they always open with how long has it been since your last confession? - Yes. - Is that real, do you do that? - So you do that, and why do you do it? We can step out, we don't have to stand in here. - [Matt] I think it's really neat. - So if you tell me it's been one month since my last confession and I missed going to church twice. - Mm-hmm. - So that's two out of four, okay. But if you tell me it's been one year since my last confession and I missed church Sunday twice, that's two out of 52. - So it gives you context? - It gives me a context, it helps to understand kind of what the person's working on and how, you know doesn't make any difference in the sense, you know, but if someone said I've been a year since my last confession and I've not been to mass at all, that's a whole year's worth, you know that's a different kind of response if you will, than if someone says it's been a month and I haven't been to mass. So this is kind of an acute, something's going on right now, what is it that's preventing you from going to mass? How can I help you get closer to God? - Yeah, well it's an entirely different pastoral exercise for you to work with somebody who's maybe kind of walked away from their faith, than somebody who really wants to get it right and has been here. - From the forgiveness point of view it's the same. God forgives you. Whatever you did, God forgives you. But if I can help you, I need a context to offer some kind of gentle advice or push or you know have you thought about it this way. - Mm-hmm. - Does that make sense in terms of, - It does, that's something I can relate to. So a practical question. If this is shut, can people hear you out here? - No, it's a heavy door. - Do you get a line sometimes? - Oh yeah, I hear confessions for an hour. - People back up, - Yeah, people back up, it's an hour. - They're eager to be here. - And again, why do people line up? It's a profession of faith. - Yeah, it's interesting. We stepped in there, and maybe it's the architecture, maybe it's the environment, maybe it's something subconscious is brilliantly crafted into this. Maybe it's the fact that I'm also a Christian, by my inclination was I want to turn these off, shut the door, and talk for a minute. - Shut the door and talk. - It's the first time I've ever been in one of these. - We get non-Catholics who come and sit and ask for forgiveness. - Hmm. - Maybe we can have a conversation about that before I go. - Yeah. (thundering pipe organ music) - That's pretty much where we wrapped up the tour but there was so much other interesting stuff that I'm sorry I wasn't able to cram into this edit, but here are maybe the two biggest things that I personally am going to take away from this experience. Thing number one, I was struck by how utterly cohesive Roman Catholic thought and practice is within the context of a few key Roman Catholic assumptions. It is so easy for me to do this routine where I sit over in my little intellectual thought bunker echo chamber and imagine that everybody who thinks things that are different than me is just crazy, how could you believe something like that. Or intellectually dishonest, you're lying to yourself over there. But not only is that not true of most people, it's mean on my part. Naw, the reality is that most points of view are rooted in a few key assumptions, and then whatever happens after that flows pretty naturally out of those key assumptions. Same thing here. If you answer a few key questions about Jesus' relationship with the church, if you interpret a couple of pivotal passages a certain way, you're just gonna be catholic. And everything's gonna play out exactly the way it's played out. If you answer them a slightly different way you're probably gonna be protestant and they're gonna play out that way or orthodox and they'll play out that way. Whatever the case, this was a humbling, helpful reminder about that reality. Second thing that really stood out to me here is and you could probably see this coming as you were watching the video, but the confession bit there at the end, kinda got through the armor for me. The longer we were in that room and talking about it, the more I started to think about myself and about God and who I am and where I'm at with things and I found myself really wanting to try that out. And so Father Diaz said it was fine to take confession from a non-Roman Catholic. So after the cameras turned off we shut the door and we did that. And I know I can have that conversation anywhere, anytime with God if I want to, but there was something very powerful about having Father Diaz sit in on that conversation and about the environment and context in which we had the conversation. So, huge thank you to the Cathedral of the Madeleine for hosting this. Huge thank you to Father Diaz for the time, the honesty, answering my questions, even when he suspected we might disagree or maybe it would make me uncomfortable. He shot straight with me, and what more can you ask from somebody than that. And finally, if some of you just watched this video and you were sitting there saying well why didn't you press him further on that, or why didn't he push back on you on this point a little bit more, we actually have a second half to this conversation. Father Diaz and I did a sit down interview where we cover a lot of those key theological differences that I referenced just a second ago. I think that conversation is really worth your time, it has a little different flavor than what we just did. And so if you want to catch that video, I would be so honored if you would consider subscribing to this channel which now because of the way YouTube works is kind of a two-fold process where you've got to click the red subscribe button and also hit that little gray bell or else they don't let you know when a video comes out. But if you would consider doing that I would be very grateful. If not, that's cool too. I'm just glad that you're here and that you're up for conversations like this. I'm Matt, this is the Ten Minute Bible Hour. Let's do this again soon.
Info
Channel: The Ten Minute Bible Hour
Views: 153,681
Rating: 4.8687167 out of 5
Keywords: protestant, catholic, pope, what do catholics believe, roman catholic, why do catholics, what do protestants believe, what is confession, what is the eucharist, converted to catholicism, converting
Id: yOlU_4pzft4
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 29min 55sec (1795 seconds)
Published: Wed Jul 31 2019
Reddit Comments

Love this. As someone who knows very little about Catholicism, I came out of it much more well-informed. Some parts, like the transubstantiation, relics, and blessed oils, are very alien to me, but they made more sense with the context given by the Priest. It certainly didn't convince me they were right - and my history brain had a very similar reaction as Matt's to the relics in particular, but I feel better for watching it.

I also finally 'get' the concept of confession. I had the idea in my head that they believed Priests could contribute in some way to the forgiveness of sins, but it seems to be more of a pastoral exercise with some added symbolism in the form of the penance. His remark that it was more of a "sign of sincerity", clarified it well for me.

I'm really looking forward to seeing them go deeper on the theological questions in part 2. Do you know how long it will be til that's released, u/feefuh?

👍︎︎ 14 👤︎︎ u/acuriousoddity 📅︎︎ Jul 31 2019 🗫︎ replies

As a Catholic, I’ve been waiting for this one a while. My only gripe is having to wait for part 2!

👍︎︎ 12 👤︎︎ u/mvoviri 📅︎︎ Jul 31 2019 🗫︎ replies

Agreed! I thought the discussion on the "one Mass" idea was incredibly helpful in understanding high church models. I am in young adult ministry from an Evangelical branch of Christianity but am in a context with many high Church model churches. This helped me to frame the high church model in scripture.

Anyway, I love it when the JPM's rev up!

👍︎︎ 7 👤︎︎ u/DustinHarbor 📅︎︎ Jul 31 2019 🗫︎ replies

I really admire the way Matt conducts his work on TMBH. I used to be very critical of other people whose opinion/beliefs did not align with my own but Matt has helped my realize that the only thing that separates me from anyone else is a few assumptions.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/my-name-is-Louis 📅︎︎ Aug 02 2019 🗫︎ replies

Face spoiler/spoiled (I assume) Edit: added slash spoiled

👍︎︎ 1 👤︎︎ u/_chebastian 📅︎︎ Jul 31 2019 🗫︎ replies
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