I was afraid to go out in the street because
there would be people who would hit me. My major job is to raise these children
into human beings. That's a job. That's a major job in itself! Secular Jews... they don't understand. They think we don't like them. They have
their own version of Judaism. The internet is here to stay. We have
to work with it. It's the opposite of insularity. It opens up the whole world
to us in ways that we really don't want. Oh, people feel sorry for us! "We're stuck
in the Dark Ages". If they would only know. I want to know?
How good it is! Hello and welcome.
My name is Freda Vizel and I host a YouTube channel where I explore
Hasidic Jewish life. Some of my most popular videos have been a series of videos with Pearl,
A Satmar Hasidic woman who took us into her home, who shared with us many of the Customs, who shared
about her son who left the fold, and so much more. I posted on my YouTube channel a
request for you to ask your questions, and I'll be asking some of them to Pearl today. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this again.
You're so welcome. What do you think of all the questions we got? Uh, very, very fascinating. Very, very fascinating
questions. And let's see if we can answer them. We got a lot. We're not gonna
be able to answer all of them. Okay.
So I did want to say that a lot of the questions got answers on YouTube.
Right. So maybe people can check out the thread
- the original thread - there is a lot of really interesting conversation.
Yeah, you did tell me. Yes, yes. Okay but then we're gonna get to a number of
questions which we've organized in categories. So the very first category is
going to be on the subject of women and motherhood in Satmar Hasidism. So the first question that someone asked is:
"Are women looked down in Judaism? Are they considered less than men?"
It's such an interesting question. Let me ask you Frieda: What's
the holiest place in Judaism? The synagogue?
No. The home?
The home. The Jewish Home. The holiest place in Judaism is the Jewish Home.
And who's at the center of the Jewish Home? The mother.
The mother. The mother because her role... every morning we say in our morning prayers
"Al titash Torahs imachu", do not forget the Torah of your mother. So the mother is the one who is
imparting the words of the Torah to her children. And she has such an important role
in raising God-fearing, moral... in turning this child into a human
being that is a completed human being, a human being that has higher values that has...
and she's doing this first by modeling this... by modeling in the home
By modeling this behavior and together with her husband - obviously - but
she's the center of the home. So really, there's no way the word 'looked down upon'... it doesn't
even exist in our imagination! In our lexicon! And then, which society has a husband coming home from
synagogue every Friday night - the husband and the men folk... the boys, the children... I mean the
children that come home from shul [synagogue] and sings an Ode to this woman "Eyshis Chayil"
which means woman a "woman of valor." But the whole song is about this woman. So which
society sings an Ode to a woman every single week? Which society has as part
of the marriage contract, which we have the kesiba -- the kesiba is the
Jewish marriage contract that outlines the rights and responsibilities of the groom
in relation to the bride. To emphasize how important this document is in Jewish
tradition -- it is read aloud at the wedding ceremony in front of all the guests.
Which is the marriage contract... It is the marriage country. And it has to be
signed by two witnesses who are not related to either the bride of the groom. And the marriage
contract lists only the obligations of the husband to the wife. What he has to do, what
he has to give her, including conjugal rights. Which society has that? So you call this
a woman that's looked down upon?! I think this is a woman that's put on a pedestal! You
can't be put on a higher pedestal than this. Okay, let me ask you a related
question we got on the same subject: Since you are a very learned
woman, someone asked... I'm not such a learned woman. I'm a housewife
For Heaven's Sake, I am not a learned woman! Okay, since you have so much
insight, let's put it this way... Someone is asking what your perspective
is on women in leadership positions, for instance, officiating ceremonies?
Let me answer like this: what does the Torah say about it? It's not what I think about it. It has
nothing to do with what I think. Toirah or Torah here is using the broad sense that Orthodox Jews
use the term to include both the Written and Oral law. the Written Law is the entire Hebrew Bible
and the Oral Law is the Corpus of laws passed down orally. Oral Law is considered part of God's
revelation to Moses at Mount Sinai. Additionally, rabbinic commentaries of and on the interpretation
of both oral and written law are also considered part of sacred oral tradition, so they are also
part of the Torah. And so, the word Torah in the way that Pearl uses it refers to the entire
body of Jewish laws and customs. It refers to all the books in the bookcase behind her,
not just to the contents of the Torah Scrolls. I like to say I think what the Torah wants me
to think. What does the Torah say about it? The Torah has roles for women and roles for men. The
roles for men are the ones who do the ceremonial things. We do the other things. We do other
things, but not, and like I said last time, we don't envy each other's roles. We're
happy with the roles that we have. There are though instances where women take
on leadership positions, right... there are-- Like what, like being a
principal in the girls' school? Yeah. So does that make you feel like there is
more, maybe, qualities... is that something of a source of pride for you... that women can in
their sphere take on leadership positions? If the Torah says it's okay, I'm
fine. I mean, no argument, that.... What's the argument? Be a leadership.
Wherever we're allowed to be in leadership, wherever we can have leadership
positions... perfectly okay. But we don't want the leadership positions
that men have. And they don't want what we have. We stay in our own camps.
What do you think when the New York Times will tell a story of a woman from The
Hasidic Community who achieved leadership positions as a celebration of this community? For
instance, I remember a story of a woman who has a lot of children -- maybe eight children
maybe 12 children -- and she's a doctor. Yeah, well, it's doable. But for some people.
But for the general majority of people, it's not something that's doable. And if she finds
satisfaction in that field and she can do both, kudos to her. And she's not
gonna have too many imitators. Because what we, I mean the ones who have the
right way of thinking, are gonna think, is: my major job, my major position, is to
raise these children into human beings that are trustworthy. That are...
That's a job. That's a major job in itself. I am happy that I am in this position where I can
turn those children into that kind of people... In other words, my satisfaction lies with
the job that I'm supposed to be doing, which is raising children, raising Jewish
children to be Shomrei Torah U'mitzvas [observant of the Torah and Mitzvahs]
To be respectable people respected people. Okay, do Hasidic women celebrate Mother's Day? We
posted the video asking people for questions on Mother's Day so we got quite a few people asking
if you and Hasidic women celebrate Mother's Day. Every day. Every day. And you know, we
don't only celebrate Mother's Day every day. We celebrate Father's day every day.
We celebrate grandparents day every day. Older sister day every day. Older brother
day every day. This is an everyday thing. We're sometimes so mad when we hear about
Mother's Day. Is that when you remember that you have a mother? I mean, for the,
you know, the secular public... Every day is Mother's Day. Every day is Father's Day. So
it's like, don't you understand that yourself? It's not relegated to a day. It's all the time.
It's a way to make money by making one day by... Maybe. Maybe it's commercialized, yes.
Yeah, it's a financial scheme. Would you say respect for the elders is more
prevalent in this world than in the secular world? It's more prevalent in any world that understands the Ten Commandments. Let's put
it this way: any world, any society that has something to do with the Ten Commandments, it's
going to be more prevalent. It's so central. On that note but related: what happens if a
woman can't have children? She can't be a mother, she can't raise all these children
which seems to be so central. What happens in the community to a woman like that? We're very big on assisted
reproduction. Very big on it. All sorts of assisted reproduction?
No, no, the Rabbis looked into this, and they came up with certain assisted reproduction that
are permissible and certain ones that are not. We have organizations that help
couples who can't afford it, you know go through the procedure with with
help from these organizations. And people contribute to this. Like Boina Oilem [A
charity organization] where people will give money to the charity to help people,
to help women who can't get pregnant, to fund their IVF treatments?
Exactly, exactly. Is there not a philosophy of: God made
you struggle with getting pregnant so your role in life is to not have children?
Therefore, God showed us that he sent an organization for us. God is in charge of the
organization too. Hashem gave the Chuchma [wisdom] to like for instance IVF...
IVF came out about maybe 30- 35 years ago. And what a blessing it
was! That Hashem gave the knowledge to doctors on how to assist this kind of reproduction.
There there are people who see maybe the marvels of science as at odds with
religious belief. Do you get what I'm saying? So I want to tell you that science, in the
end, is going to prove religious beliefs. It's a scientific fact that
you cannot destroy matter. And it's a scientific fact
that you cannot create matter. So whatever God created, you cannot uncreate. And
whatever Hashem did not create, you can't create. But if you really want scientific
proof, it could prove religion. I see. Science can be used to prove religion.
Yes, it could. If she can't have children or vice versa,
and one of the couple is able... one half of the couple is able to have children.
Would they generally get divorced? The obligation in the Torah is for a man
to have children. It's not upon a woman. The obligation is upon a man. So a man... this
could only happen after 10 years [of marriage]. If the man needs to fulfill that obligation and he
is able, and he wants to divorce the woman, that's what happens. He will divorce the woman so that
he can fulfill the Mitzvah with another woman. But sometimes couples can't do
that because they are so connected that they simply can't do that, so
you know... they stay like that. Even though one of them could potentially have children? Especially the man -- he
doesn't HAVE TO... he doesn't HAVE TO get divorced if he doesn't...?
He doesn't have to get divorced. He's encouraged to get divorced and the Torah
accepts such a divorce. The grounds... the Torah accepts the ground... the grounds are
valid for a divorce. But he doesn't have to. We were talking about infertility. Could it
be that there are women who don't want to have children? Who don't want to be mothers? That's
not what they want to spend their lives doing? I personally don't know a single solitary
person like that. I can't even imagine it. Maybe they don't want to say it because
there is social pressure, stigma. I wouldn't know. But I
can't imagine it. It just... It's... it's... it's... across every
society, women want to have children. Every single society in the world, except maybe
in modern society, people decide not to have children for whatever reason.
I have the greatest on them. You pity them.
I pity them because they don't know what they're missing. They don't know what they're missing.
The joy that a child brings into your life is unimaginable. Unless you know it...
Unless you actually experience it... A lot of people love children, are
involved with children or in some role, very intimately involved in the lives of
children without themselves being mothers and who think children
There's no comparison. No comparison. Okay, the next question is a little different.
Also on the subject of women but not on family. On head shaving. We talked about head shaving
in the other video and people are absolutely enamored and quite unsatisfied with where we
left the conversation. One of the questions I have here -- someone asked how long your
hair is now. That's how the question came in. But in general, we got a
lot of questions about why the head shaving. Why covering
the head then with fake hair? So really we're supposed to cover our heads
not with the wig but with a kerchief. That's that's preferred... But not everybody can
do that, because they miss their hair, okay, so we wear a wig. It's not
a substitute for hair exactly, but it's a substitute for going
with completely just the kerchief. Would you say... someone asked: isn't
it strange, this person was saying, I don't mean to be critical, but
isn't it strange that you should cover your head with fake hair? You might
as well just not cover your head and...? Yeah, it is it is strange. That's right, it is
strange, it is strange. And it's a little bit phony... the're phoniness in our part, because
really we're supposed to have covered. With nothing, no hair, but just with a nice kerchief.
But not everybody can do it, okay. So the rabbis agreed: wear a wig. It's a loophole sort of.
Yeah, yeah. What about the head shaving, you still
want to talk about the head shaving? Because I feel like we really didn't
put that discussion to rest. People are so bothered... every time I opened YouTube I see
comments where people say: Why in the world would women shave off their God-given Glory?
Who is bothered? Strangers.
Who strangers? Strangers on the internet, you know of it is.
Fine strangers don't grow up like the way we grow up, of course they're bothered. Let them
keep their hair. But we, who grow up knowing that a woman shaves her hair, they see their
mothers, they see their aunts, they see their older siblings, it's not a question.
It's not a... It's not a big deal. What would you say to people saying men
are just once again telling women...
By the way... just a minute...
our men shave their hair too. I see... They have beautiful locks...
So we have beautiful sheitels [wigs] The men shave their hair too and wear a head
covering, okay. It's not... it's not like the men decided: you women... They don't have long
hair either. They don't have the kind of hair that they could also have, or that sometimes
you remember in the 60s and 70s, all the men were wearing long hair... Even
today I see them in ponytails, I see them... Yes, I'm sorry, so go ahead,o what were
you saying? Men decide for women? Yeah, men tell women you have to shave your head,
and women, you know, women are once again...? The Torah is set up in such a way that
the rabbis are the ones who tell us, who explain what the Torah wants from us.
And yes, we are a male-oriented society. No apologies. We have alpha males.
-Really? The males are all Alphas.
Yes, we are a society that is divided along male and female, and the male is
Alpha. We look up to males. We look up to rabbis, look up to fathers, we look up to teachers,
we look up to... I mean male teachers. We do. But it's just like there's a king and a
queen. They don't have the same roles. -But the queen is second?
Yes. -And that doesn't bother you?
I told you, I'm very happy with that role. No, because this is... Look. Our
creator created us and knows what's best for us. Okay. He knows that for society to function
properly, for a home to function properly, there is the head of the household, and the
next... it's like the king and the Queen. The mother is looked up to also.
But the mother with the children look up to the father. And that's the healthiest
for... psychologically the healthiest for a home. Now I know that there are women that say no, we
are even. We do the same thing. We're... There's no such division... That we're even. You can
be even. You could try, yeah. I mean try it, do it. But really... you'll be happiest
if you have your husband to look up to. All these big women, these big knacker
women, you know, who want to be even? I've never heard one of them say that they don't
want their husband to protect them. Or that or that they don't want their husband to look
out for them. It's in the nature of a woman. That she wants to look up to her
husband. They can fight their nature. They can say we're even. They could say
he's even less than me - I'm more, you know. It's not to our... It's not
to the benefit of humankind. As an aside to that, this is the
second time we do a video and you use the word "knacker" and you leave
me in a bind because it is really hard to translate the word knacker.
A big macher, how do you say... A big macher is a big doer?
Yeah, a big... a big bigshot. The word knacker is literally to knock, right?
Someone who makes a lot of noise.
I don't know. We're not working on Yiddish Okay. Then I'm going to move on. I'm going to move
on to the category on insularity. I have quite a few questions people wanted to know. And the
very first question someone asked, I don't know who, they might be me, about your opinion
about the internet. Is it okay? Is it not okay? Well, you know - Do you know the definition
of insularity? It's to close yourself off. So the internet is here to stay. We have to work
with it. It's a fact of life. You can't do business today without it almost. It's a fact of life.
And it's it's a very scary thing to us because it's the opposite of insularity. It
opens up the whole world to us. In ways that we really don't want. So we have things
that help us. We put filters on our internet so it protects us. It gives us some insularity.
So that we could stay protected from outside Society. What is the fear from outside society?
Can you... can you articulate why it's important...? It's not a fear. It's not a fear. It's our mandate. It's...
first of all our mandate is to be a nation apart. Hashem wants the Jews to be a nation apart.
There's so many things that we can't do that society does... it sort of forces us to
be a nation apart even if we would like to be part of the Nations, you know.
The Shabbes that we have. The Nations do not have Shabbes. It forces us to be apart
And all the Mitzvahs that we have. It's not for the other nations. The
nations of the world have seven mitzvahs.
"Seven Mitzvahs of the Children of Noah" Yeah [verse] The world
has seven mitzvahs that they have to keep. We have 613. These days we don't have 613
because we don't have to Bais Hamikdosh (temple) anymore and a lot of those mitzvahs pertain
to the Bais Hamikdosh. And we are in gollus (exile) But really a Jew has 613 versus seven
so Hashem wants us to be a nation apart. And he gave us a goal,
a goal in life. He gave us a mission. Which is to keep his 613...?
Our mission is to teach the world that there is a God who created the world, who runs the world, who is
in charge of the world. Who is... you know... in every instant it... There's God all over. It's not like just...
That's why I don't think Judaism is a religion. Then what is it?
It's a way of life. it's not like
we are Jews and we have a religion called Judaism It affects every minute of our life.
Every aspect of life is... every aspect and every minute is affected by being
Jews. And being Shomrei Torah umitzvahs (observant of the Torah and Mitzvahs) Everything. Everything -- the way we tie our
shoes. The way we get up in the morning. There isn't an aspect... There isn't this a time
that we are not interacting with our so-called religion. We're being Jews, but we don't...
We don't have a religion. We are Jews. So okay -- On that note... people were asking a lot if
you are allowed to have friends outside of the Hasidic community.
So nowhere does it tell us "do not have friends outside of the of the..." You talk about Hasidim now or Jewish...?
Outside of... the people who live a very different way of life. It doesn't explicitly tell us that. In
other words: if I had a friend that was a Christian, that wouldn't be a
sin on my part. It wouldn't be a sin. But I'm not going to look for it.
Insularity means exactly that: being insular. We talk all the time. We talk maybe
once a week, right?
Hopefully twice. Is that a problem for your insularity? Because
I'm not religious. I can em...
Are you kidding me! What are you talking about, you're a Yid (Jew)! How could you say that! Oh. I see, I see, I see. Cause there are...
You know it's interesting... I told you secular Jews, they don't understand... they think we don't like them. They think
we don't like them. They don't understand how pained we are to see them the way
they are. Maybe that's...
And if I ever meet anybody and I... and they tell me that they're a Jew...
I have instant love for that person, you know. But they don't understand it. A lot of secular Jews
feel like Hasidim don't consider them Jewish,
and that Hasidim... It's not that we don't... you can't consider them not Jewish if they're Jews. You know.
If they're by your definition anyone whose mother is Jewish is Jewish.
It's not my definition. It's the Torah's definition. The Torah says if your mother... all secular
Jews today had in the three-four generations Shomrei Torah Umitzvah Jews. (religious Jews)
As... They are descendants from Shmrei Torah Umitzvah Jews. You know, everybody who says "I'm a Jew",
even if he's secular, is descendant for about three-four generations back their grandparents
were Shomrei Torah Umitzvahs Jews. What if they don't want you to
feel sorry for them though? They can't tell what to do. I know they don't want me to feel sorry
for them. What if they find it condescending? What if they get hurt? I'm not going to tell
them. You're not gonna tell them? I'm not going to tell them. I'm just gonna feel--
In your heart...
A Jew! A Jew! It's like... an instant instant, instant... like... I met my long-lost sister
or brother, you know. I see. I see what you're saying. On the note of walls. Are you
allowed to read secular books? Do I read secular books today? Yes. I read every single book on the
Holocaust that anybody has ever written. And my goal is to read every single one of them. so I do.
What about a young girl today; what kind of stories, novels, fables would she be exposed to?
Go into any Orthodox Jewish bookstore and you'll have enough to keep you throughout your teenage
years. Enough to satisfy you all your teenage years. On every single
subject: novels. Not romance stories. Absolutely not, no. Why not? Because the boy-girl
relationship is not... we don't... it's not talked about. It's not talked about, not read
about. Until you know... until you're, you know, getting ready for marriage. And then we talk about
it. Then it's predicated on marriage. Not the arranged match, I didn't say the
arranged... I didn't say the arrangements match. After reviewing the footage it clicked in my
head. Arranged in heaven... No, arranged by. Arranged in heaven but set up by parents. Everything
is set up in heaven. Everything. Except except you know the moral... the moral
choices. Does that give you greater calmness in life, to believe everything
is set up in heaven? You can't imagine. You can't imagine. It's
it's like a different world. and you know it's amazing; you talk
to... I talked to not only people my age. I talked to younger people. Because of all
the Yiddish Publications, the Jewish Publications that come out in English
that keep reinforcing this idea. You talk to young women: everybody knows Hashem runs the
world in the most minutest, greatest detail. So even though we want let's say, people
want... people have a right to want, it's okay It's okay to want. It doesn't work out: this was
what Hashem wanted for me, so everybody is like living in a world where: yes we want. There are
certain things we hope for. Certain things we dream of certain. Things... but we know that it's
only dependent on what Hashem really wants. Luckily we have a Hashem who's very good to us,
okay? And he created the world so that he could give. That was the purpose of the creation. So he
can give to us. So we get so much from him that it's mind-boggling... but you have to train the
mind to understand that every breath that you take, that every swallow, that every thing
that your eye sees, is a gift from Hashem. That everything... that in other words:
we are constantly getting good things. It's not just when you get a big nice thing.
It's not just me when we win the lottery. It's just when you wake up in the morning, and
your eyes open and you stand up on your two feet, and that's what we say - we're supposed to say
this is the minute our eyes open: we say Modeh Ani [prayer] You know, we say thank you Hashem for giving us
back our souls after we slept. After we slept which is 1/60th of death. Sleep is 1/60th of death.
And now we got our souls back. So we thank Hashem every... in other words: a Jewish is constantly
supposed to say 'thank you'. If he doesn't say it verbally,
you have to have it in mind. The word Yehuda, Jude, comes from Yehudah. It means to thank Hashem. That's why Leah [from the Bible] named her fourth son Yehudah. Because when she had the fourth son she was grateful... she was very grateful. So Judaism
requires us to be grateful. And you know it makes a person so happy. If you think that
you're grateful for everything, for the way your body works, for the food that we get, for the light...
For the beautiful houses that we have. For the flush toilets that we have. For the tile bathrooms. It
keeps you in a constant state of happiness. I never had anything but indoor plumbing but I am so...
I sometimes think about it. I think, imagine people having, not having indoor plumbing. They
would have outhouses. Imagine how lucky we are. To have this beautiful indoor plumbing that we
have. Yeah. We're richer than Kings were once upon a time. Yeah, in terms of comforts in life.
So this is the... this is the the shoresh (root) of the word Jew. To be grateful.
It's a beautiful thing to be grateful, but you know it's very hard. Because if you have a hundred
things to be grateful for and one thing that bothers you, then that can be so overpowering over
everything else. It depends how you train your mind. Someone said: As a child growing up, did you ever
fear the large secular world outside your Hasidic Community? Were you sheltered growing up as to
anti-Semitism or were you aware at a young age? You better believe I was aware. When I was
growing up in the 1950s in Williamsburg when I was young six, seven, eight, nine, ten
I was afraid to go out on the street. Because there would be people who would hit me. Kids who
would hit me. They would beat me up. Wow it's so safe now outside. Yeah but don't forget this was
the 1950s. So there was a lot of racism. The blacks were very looked down upon, the Jews were looked down
upon. Do you find... do you ever worry nowadays while walking the streets that you'll get attacked as a
Jewish woman? No no no no. Do the children worry, you think? No. No, we live in such a... we live as a sort
of a ghetto. We hardly hardly hardly have none... The children are not exposed to non-jewish
Children. Yeah it's really very... a ghetto of our own making.
It does happen in
Williamsburg too... the men are walking to shul on Friday night and someone runs up to them and
attacks them unprovoked. I'll tell you something I don't think it's anti-Semitism. I think
it's just juvenile delinquents. But it's not necessarily out of a certain conviction towards...
a hatred towards... no.
I have another question: Do you go... does your family go on excursions, for
instance would you go to the beach, would you leave the community to go to museums, historical sites?
We wouldn't go to the beach because of the... the nudity. I mean not actual
nudity, but what we consider nudity. The mixture of men and women... We would never
go to the beach, that's a big No-No. When we go to historical sites... we do go yes. We
go to any local historical sites is a big draw. We'll go to like interesting...
we go a lot to New Hampshire because of the beauty of the place, the natural beauty.
People go to Niagara Falls. People go to Lake George, which is, you know, closer to us. We'll go to
the local parks that we have here. Museums? Museums is a little iffy. There is a lot of talk
about things that happen 35 million years ago. Which contradicts which the Torah says. It only
happened five thousand, seven hundred something years ago, so you can't take a child and say:
you know, this happens seven million years ago when we tell our children the Torah says that the
world was created Five Thousand Seven... I don't even know exactly... 5,700-something years ago. That
clashes with our beliefs. So we don't take our children to something that clashes with our
beliefs. I remember we would go on school trips to Liberty Science Center,
which would be... it wouldn't have exhibits of Neanderthals, it would have gravity... Yeah, right,
science. Like more like science. Yeah science, but contemporary technology science. Yeah,
exactly. So yeah, we get around. Do you like to travel? Do I like to travel?
I'm fascinated by museums. I love museums. I love natural wonders.
It's mammish (really) like getting oxygen, you know. To see the wonders
of Hashem, of the world? Fascinating. Do I like to travel? No, I don't like to travel. You
and me are home bodies? I'm a home body. I like to stick to base. Me too, me too.
Thank you so much for watching this Q&A segment with Pearl. This is not all there is: check back for another video
where we'll be asking, and answering, many more of your questions. In the meantime, I want to extend
my heartfelt gratitude to Pearl, who so graciously opened up and shared with me, with all of you, with
this channel, her wisdom, her Insight, her heartfelt faith. It has been so meaningful to me, it has
been such a joy, and I really appreciated all of you being open to listening and sharing your
thoughts in the comments. I'll see you around. Bye.
