A Conversation with Jon Batiste: The History & Future of American Music

[Music] John batist as you know from his last name is part of a three or four generation family in my hometown in New Orleans I've known and admir the batist family all the way through I think the batist the Nevels and uh marceles is all from uh same neighborhood and um all taught each other how to play and I think um I think uh is it true that uh won has sort of been a mentor of your wion marceles that's right you know I remember uh when I was 14 I met winon for the first time and we played basketball and then he won and I was like man how did this old guy win but then after that we we became very close when I moved to New York I went to juliard and I got there when I was 17 so that was a few years later and he's the artistic director of jazz at Lincoln Center and over the years I've been doing stuff with them lucky enough to get a a few awards from there and play with his band and he's really been very helpful in helping me to construct my vision in terms of the music education side of things and also jazz in the 21st century yeah I mean one of the things you and wion both do in you in particular now is take Jazz but also make it for a millennial generation you're able to make it into social music make it into something new but still keeping the roots right I mean is that your goal you you have to start from somewhere so you know the beauty of jazz is that it can accommodate all styles of music you can take Jazz and you can put Rock in it it's still Jazz but you can take Jazz you can put Blues in it it's Jazz you can take Jazz you can put any style of music into it and it keeps its Integrity but if you take another style of music and you put Jazz into that style it turns into something else so something about jazz is um is magical in that way does that come from the roots of jazz around 1900 when so much is flowing in well New Orleans my hometown is a big part of that that change in America because you have all of these people coming together and say you have a party right yeah and you go to the party what do the people at the party dance to what music do you play if you have the French there and the Spanish and Irish the Africans then and they have the drums and then you have all of these people that they have their own folk music but they've never been together especially in a social context like that well well let's list all the things that come together in the 1880s to 1900 in New Orleans as you say there's Congo square with the drums and the Africans freed slaves joha Coler you want to explain what those are well when you have people who are slaves but they also have their culture that they brought with them and then they have this new culture they're figuring out a way to acclimate to this new environment that's what Congo Square was MH in Africa they would play the drums all the time as a religious expression and Sunday was the day that they gave them as this is your day to have your culture and continue that tradition so Congo Square became one of those places where people especially the free slaves could go and express this I guess at that point it was a rebellion but it was a silent Rebellion so what ends up happening with that is slowly more people figure out oh man this is where we go to get free this is where we go to do our thing so then people started to like it and once people started to like it it became a part of the popular culture and so you also have the Creole orchestras that's right and go ahead with that that's where jelly Ro and figures like that come from where you have I've often thought of you as a cross between Stevie Wonder and jelly roll Morton wo with the keyboards I love that you know jelly roll is um he's one of my bigger influences because he's one of the first guys to take the musical form that they created and all of this stuff that was happening God chalk was as well and write it down and put it into a context where you could give it to any musician of any style classical musician who didn't improvise or you could give it to a guy who didn't even read music and they could come together and play on the same Band Stand do you have anything you want to show us on the jelly World style oh man okay that's too easy of a question no I love that so jelly R he's um he's got so many different elements in his music and you hear his music and you have the high part which is the clarinet all in the piano you'll take all of these different sections so you have the high section which is and that's the clarity net taking I guess the obligat it's like a bird flying in the sky and then in the middle you got the trumpets and that's the [Music] melody then at the bottom you have the trombones and the trombones are kind of what they call tailgating following behind and laying a foundation for the trumpet and then still got a Claret that's flying on the top so trombo and that's also what the tuba is doing at the bottom doing the Baseline unfortunately I don't have enough keys to do that part yeah but you can imagine no wait take that Melody that jelly roll Melody and let's get non-chronological for a moment how does that Melody like reflect itself now well if you take something that is pentatonic five not scale yeah that's the basis of all pop music right now in terms of the harmonies in terms of The Melodies all of it is pentatonics so you take a song like [Music] um Royals by Lord and will never be royals it's all pentatonic jelly rooll was doing that way back then and so what you have jelly roll and he's sort of a hunky Tong piano player Creole to some extent what other influen is it coming in at that time you have the European classical music influence coming in and like Fox Trot orchestras yes you have uh you have the marching ensembles John Philip soua and that's coming like the Spanish American war is over and they're all Hawking their trumpets and cornetes down in New Orleans right on dryad Street well the thing about dryads and if you look at the history of it dryads all the way down to um the TR where now you see the whole culture of the second line of the MRA Indians still alive mhm is um that's the first time that people actually could see the music in the street and see the transformation of it from the first time the bass drum was very straight and you have marching bands wait wait that bass drum that we still have comes from the Spanish American war Mar exactly cool so if you take the way they played the bass drum that's the more straight and they the tuba is tuba is mimicking it gotcha so it's kind of like walking and step you know you see them people marching their feet be going all the way out it's like they marching and step and the tube is on the other side so Bo and then in New Orleans during that time when so much stuff was coming in the Africans took that Rhythm and then the Creos took that Rhythm and they had different ways of playing it show me well first the the Creo [Music] the yeah yeah so they have a back beat yeah so they put a little bit more of this kind of funky thing on it wa explain what a creole is well Creole is when you have the Spanish and the Africans and they mix in New Orleans it's a special kind of a there's a Cajun Creole which is in Lafayette Louisiana which is where my grandfather's from I was about to say yeah Lafayette and then you have the Creos who came into New Orleans and Congo square and jelly Ro Martin was really a part of that Sydney B was also a part of that and you um you see that c batist mares Neville bash somewhat European names africanamerican European babaran is the Oscar babaran was the one in you knew right yeah okay so show me how that comes together [Music] [Music] wow yeah good did that work with a tuba and bass drum oh yes the TU and the bass drum will add the funk to it you heard how it had the kind of parlor music vibration M which is the French thing and then you also have the um the blues into it which is the folk music of the where did the Blues come from is the same period 1880 1900 the blues came from two different strains first the blues came from the gospel tradition and the spirituals and this is um when you start to get you talk about the Spanish Spanish also brought the guitars over so when you get the guitars in the hand of somebody like Robert Johnson he doesn't know the Spanish tradition so he comes up with his own way of playing so Robert Johnson's basically a a blues player right say right show show me something that he would have [Music] done oh in the evening in evening when the sun go [Laughter] down oh in the evening in the evening when the sun go [Music] down whoa ain't it Lonesome [Music] sometimes when your lover ain't around yeah [Applause] yeah okay so that's the blues stream we're making a Jamia right or a whole lot like wi say it's a gumbo a gumbo we're making a and you got the blues and that comes in maybe from the Mississippi Delta and the plantations right but then you have the Appalachian folk music and then if you go to the mountains they got fiddles uhoh and then you got stuff like boil him cabbage down and different folk songs that are also a part of the Blues that's the thing about America man there's so much stuff going on at the same time and when you put it together Jazz kind of captured it and funneled it into one art form that's developed over 100 years now by the way we keep leaping forward so let's do it again you have Robert Johnson you have all this coming together show me how that's reflected maybe in 21st century oh yeah okay so take something like [Music] U so that's Jimmy Hendrick Voodoo chops you know I'm a Voodoo Child oh knows I'm a Voodoo Child oh yeah so Jimmy was he's basically a blues musician then you take Jimmy how he influenced all the rock and roll and you take that idea all the way to now you got people like Gary Clark Jr playing blues and stuff but that's because you got the guitar coming in how does the guitar come in you said partly Appalachian no no no that's the fiddle that's the fiddle gotcha the fiddle is is like uh when you have folk songs like um I can play an example ain't going to sound like a fiddle but we got good [Laughter] [Music] ears [Music] wow but I didn't know did the fiddle really become an ingredient in the gumbo of jazz the fiddle became an ingredient because when you listen to the fiddle music that is now like folk music and uh I guess you could say bluegrass music that continued in a different strain and created its own thing similar to Jazz and there's a repertoire for that but if you play with those musicians and you play with jazz musicians I feel like it's almost the easiest conversation musically to have it's like cousins it's like we can play a blues they have blues that they play too we can play something that's like um based on a rhythm changes form or something like that scene in Deliverance exactly conversation right some musical conversation and uh going back to the blues you mentioned the spirituals and the I would say Sanctified church is that right uh are those very similar or is that two different strands sort of the spirituals of the of the church music well spirituals and gospel music are different spirituals were were more about the um slaves and that was what transitioned into gospel music which is when you have the church then that's like um the difference between gospel and blues when you ask that question is secular and nonsecular the blues was basically secular version of what gospel music was and it still is but do they have a similar say melodic or BackBeat or Tempo strands it's similar but over time it changed because the instrumentation changed at the beginning it was the same you just had hand claps in voices give me an example it's like uh you got something you see Like This Little Light of Mine I'm going to let it shine oh This Little Light of Mine oh I'm going to let it shine let me tell you that this a little light of mine oh I'm going to let Let It Shine Let It Shine Let It Shine Let It Shine so that's gospel show me how it be done in the blues the blues are still the same right here oh Marie or won't you leave me alone oh Marie W you go back home I say oh Margie girl won't you leave me alone I say oh Margie oh won't you go back home see I get it now it's the same all right so we're hitting 1901 let us say yeah oh uhoh uhoh what happens uhoh uhoh man well leis Armstrong is um born August in August you know he used to say it was July 4th yeah we're almost at his birthday that he celebrated right cuz for his whole life he says he was born July 4th 1900 right why did he say that if it he want I think it was partly he wanted maybe to enlist CU he was in the the waai home in a foster home or orphanage home uh and he had to lie about his age or is it just Lis being a little I think it's both man because he's an enigma even if you go to his Museum which was his house and you got a guy who's um Corona Queens you're talking Corona Queens and he's world famous and he's living in this very humble house and you see him people that I know that have met him would talk about seeing him in a bar and he's sitting down you go talk to him and it's like it's Louis Armstrong where at pops and then pops just sit there hey man and have an hourong conversation with him it's very but but that kind of figure out I think you can't really know what was going on in his head because on the outside he has this very humble disposition but then he's also one of the greatest Geniuses of all time I want to say I hate with moderator but I want to add one personal thing for about 6 years I worked biography of leis Armstrong over the time and by the end I knew every single thing about Lewis Armstrong except for who he was that's what I'm saying I couldn't figure out why he was smiling I didn't know whether he was happy I didn't know whether he like white folks I didn't know nothing about him and I gave it up because I couldn't Crack the Code so help me Crack the Code man pops well the first thing about Pops that you you have to realize is he came from the lowest possible situation at the time I mean he he was in a single parent home he was young with no money and to the point where they said okay you got to go live in the home so that's when he went to the waves home and then when he was living there he was getting in trouble until somebody gave him a trumpet and they gave him the trumpet and they were like man well what do you think you can do with this and I think I have a theory that he was like one of those people where you give him the instrument and the first time they play it you hear something about him just like oh man that sounds incredible you should take that up so I think the trumpet kind of saved him and also changed American Music at the same time that was a great moment give me an example of an early Lewis Armstrong I guess it's King Oliver kid or's band what's he playing in back then I's see Weston Blues you want to do that or yeah that's uh that's a little I'mma play something even earlier than that okay fine like um is [Music] [Music] say [Music] [Music] that's on his for tell us about that it his rhythm that's what changed everything before him it was just kind of like [Music] more less very straight and then he took that same Melody and would say okay check this [Music] out so what's that called when you take the Rhythm and you just move it with a quarter beat yes little shifts every here and there so what's that called Soul okay this is why I couldn't write yeah it's it's it's like that's not the kind of thing that you can teach uh it's not the kind of thing that you can actually say okay this is how you do it so now you know how to do it it's like he was born with some kind of divine Insight if you will have you ever heard Wht tell tell the story when he was you you first did a record maybe at 1617 right wion's about 1516 his father Ellis marceles who you know well piano player and teacher of Music in New Orleans uh do you know his story about uh his dad giving him LS Armstrong no real quickly uh wenton says you know he's 16 15 doesn't like Louis Armstrong you know waving the handkerchief you know forget it so Ellis says okay hey here play this it's Jubilee I think mhm and won's kind of cocky and he such and he stays up all night and by the next morning he realized he can't do that with him yet I heard that yeah and he says okay I get it the guy's a genius but most people wouldn't think he was a genius and even today that's because his whole Persona didn't have that kind of look like um if you see Beethoven or you see pictures of all the older musicians and you see them and you hear read stories about them and everything looks so serious like Beethoven it seemed like he never smiled for a picture ever he's like chopan be like and you wonder like man and Lou arm strong and Louis arm like so it's like is that guy really the genius so there's there's that that's going on and then he made decisions throughout his whole thing because he didn't really care about all of that kind of thing he he wanted to be an ambassador to bring people together and bring people from all different cultures who may be in the Jazz maybe not in the Jazz different backgrounds into it he wasn't um he didn't think of himself in that kind of regard now so what goes into making Lewis armson because I know he's his mother who is a prostitute and sort of leaves him after a while but has him baptized in the Mississippi River if I remember correctly so very much part of the Sanctified Church he's there every day almost I think Pito streets where he's growing up what else is there he's marching bands in the quarter marching bands in the quarter something that's not documented as much but um he he said it a few times where he would be listening to opera on the streets of New Orleans from the outside of the Opera house cuz people went to operas back then so he' be checking that out even though he didn't have the money to check it out he was in the neighborhood and he would hear all of these people playing and um he said later I mean not a lot of people have checked it out but you can actually hear it in this trumpet plan the operatic sort of sentiment where he's playing through his horn but he's singing and a singer that he really was into is uh Maria tetrazini so this is a French oper old French oper house yeah and he he he would listen to her he would actually wait to see when she would play go outside of the Opera House and listen through the door and uh he says um at one point when he's thinking about playing a melody or anything just play from the heart and sing it as if he was a opera singer show [Music] me [Music] [Music] I [Music] the [Music] so that's the grandest oldest spiritual we have right Amazing Grace with the French Opera House involved MH cool yeah so you have uh he explained a little bit to me even I grew up with it where did you grow up I grew up in Kenna Louisiana uhoh I'm sorry to hear that but uh was I was going to say I grew up near where L grew up in you know Broadmore Central City right in the heart of town Pito Street all right and what was interesting is that it's a grand mix of people but you even had the French opera house as close to what was then black storyville meaning you know sort of a prostitution district and he could go to the French opera house but he could also hear The Honky Tonk players at the storyville and other Pro houses of prostitution well whatever were there there Legends of that and uh he talks about that the idea that when he was in that area you would hear some of the greatest trumpet players alive who named the greatest alive at that time the greatest alive unanimously was Buddy Budd Bal and Buddy Balden left us almost no recordings right no none there's just something that um I believe it was bunk Johnson another great trumple player who played with under budy right yeah he was like um you know if there were like four great ones he was one of the four that Louis Armstrong looked up to so buddy I thought I heard buddy Balon say give me the some of that tell me about Buddy [Music] Balden [Music] [Applause] so it's like you hear the march in there I was about to say we got the marching music back in and that is people like bunk Johnson saying I thought I heard buddy Balden say trying to transmit to us something that's never been recorded never written down but the greatest trumpet player of the time mhm who dies in an insane asylum right insane asylum to um the point where he dies in obscurity no he disappears for a while nobody knows where where he is and there's just a legend is left no recordings did lwis Armstrong hear buddy Balden he claimed to have heard him I know he claimed they have heard him he claimed that his sound was so big that he could hear it across the river so he would blow and he was like man you know it's Buddy Balden playing when you can hear it just as clear as day and it's miles away so Lewis Armstrong uh I was talking about race a little bit as you say he's from the poorest black part of town but there's also the Creole orchestras playing further downtown that's a more a higher Society uh Creole Black Culture he's not allowed to play in those orchestras right away right there's some tension between the two black races right well it it it's almost um the the time made it seem like the lighter skin the better even if you were still black if you were lighter skin which is the Creoles then they had more of um I guess you could say an easy time acclimating to that Society whereas leis Armstrong he was a genius but nobody knew it yet so to them it's like oh yeah he's just another black so what are the Creole orchestras bringing into this mix they bring that classical influence right like jelly rooll he wrote the music down he rehearsed the music in a way that was very similar to like an orchestral rehearsal but then he would bring the soul of it into it so at the end of the day they wanted to find players who played in the legit way and in The Not So legit way so they finally mix it mix it up they mix it up show [Music] [Laughter] [Music] me [Music] [Music] [Music] m [Music] cool you he the the beginning is everything's come together then right am I missing I got the F the uh okra I got the shrimps anything I'm missing in this combo we covered it we covered it it's all there and over time it just it stayed there it transformed into what we have now and I think um you know that's somebody like me I feel like that's what I I really draw from the idea of taking all of that stuff that was kind of just by chance came together turn of the century and you take that with all the stuff that's happened over the years and what's happening now with the internet and everybody being more connected than ever the world is just so much more diverse and Global now because everybody is kind of you could talk to somebody in Japan at the touch of a button so it becomes what you sometimes call social music yeah explain that social music is is really about the idea of taking this Foundation of jazz but it's not really about the genre of music you draw from all different styles and you take that as a means of bringing different people together who may never have had a live music experience or never really think that you know this is something that can change their life and um so it almost draws on the philosophical and ideological roots of jazz not just musical roads exactly everybody is welcome and that kind of idea really needs to be exemplified in all levels from the performance to you know the philosophical level which we're talking about to the idea of going into schools music education community centers juvenile detention centers all levels of people from that to the exclusive level of people where you know they have an integration with somebody from a world that they may never interface with so I think that's beautiful did you coin the term social music for what you do yeah I like that I call it social music and give me an example then of how you bring things together and make it social music is that the name of your latest album is that yeah that's right okay okay good social music um actually we have a video of a video let's go to the video I forgot about the vid thank you you're [Music] welcome I frein no me honestly think best my is relax you know I'm never ever lying I was state in facts so you know I'm right when I say we next people feel the music and they feel the community and it brings us together it brings the world together we begin to succeed when the cares of Our Lives beginning end with the hurt of others yeah we begin to breathe when the wounds of others become released with the love of others oh he who looks around to find who's in need has made the best investment in his legacy I say that love will never Force love will never quit love ain't never lose love ain't never miss [Music] coming from Kenna Louisiana which is right near New Orleans and my family being a staple in New Orleans culture I always had Rhythm around me rhythm and blues I heard it all the time everybody played and my mother telling me at 11 years old you should switch to the piano boy that was the end of it it's a way of life and me being the way that I am really fuels my music the concept of social music the concept of what stay human is let the moon light shine forever bright with the Wind toight oh let your love light shine Bri and it'll help us to understand each other better it'll help us to understand ourselves and it also will help us to have a good [Music] time [Music] yeah [Music] [Music] yeah everybody [Music] say oh yeah you're right all right do we have the album here in the bookstore or something I hope so let's find out we have the album I'm going to go buy one uh two things in there I noticed first the second line explain that second line it it's a concept in New Orleans if you don't know the second line where somebody dies first it's music for everything in New Orleans so somebody dies they they perform and the music first line is the family going into the church it's mournful it's a durge you know something very sad and then they come out and it's the celebration after the service so like Closer Walk yeah show [Laughter] [Music] me [Music] [Music] f [Music] you want to sing it oh yeah just the closer walk with [Music] the y'all can CL [Applause] Grant Jesus is my plee yeah d walking close to thee oh let it be dear Lord let it be want to Rite them out now yes you want to take us back from the cemetery now [Music] [Music] [Music] now [Music] [Music] [Music] f [Music] one other element I noticed in your social music in video a tambourine where did that come from tambourine is you know it's a part of the MRA Indian tradition the church tradition also the Sanctified church and um even in Indian music there's tambourine and also in Brazilian music which is um you know you have the which is also Street Music and um you might want to explain the Migra Indians are yeah the MRA Indians are when you have the Native Americans and also the Africans and they there's that Confluence in New Orleans similar to Creo but it's more of um a social Gathering where where they have these ritualistic things that kind of tie into Voodoo and that tradition in New Orleans but they meet and they get around drums similar to Congo square and they create this it's basically a Ruckus and what what happens is that tradition is passed on it's a oral tradition in New Orleans where the Migra Indians have part of they have their own kind of second line they have their own dress where they create and basically compete in their different tribes and the different tribes compete on who has the most flamboyant and beautiful suit and they March and they March tambourine Io Io yeah 50 tambourines playing 50 tambourines and Io Io like the kind of tambourine grou I oh yeah go ahead w you take it say my grandma your grandma was sitting by the fire my grandma told your grandma I'm going to set your flag on fire talking about you know oh all right take me to the 21st century alas how do we get the Millennials involved with jazz you know we we got this thing um where we take all of those Street traditions and we do what we call a love Riot whereas um It's like a Riot because it's crazy you get all of these people and sometimes you tell them sometimes you don't you go to a place where there not usually music like a restaurant or Subway street corner you know we we've done it on the slopes and Utah literally anywhere and we just start playing and we create this energy and you get all these people from all over the place just coming into it joining up sometimes we'll put it on you know like U Facebook or Twitter that we're going to be at a place don't tell anybody in details and they come and then what happens is all kind of craziness happens to the point that even at our shows we'll play and at the end of the show you know the people will be there and they'll be expecting us to love ride so they'll wait at the end and they're like are you going to do it this time and we'll march with the whole crowd from a show I never forget man we played at carneg in New York and that's very like you know straight they don't have that kind of stuff people Standing On Top of the seats next thing you know it's like the energy can happen anywhere basically we might have to end this with a love ride oh man but you need social media for that right well not we we'll get to the end in a minute but before we get to the end tell me about how social media plays into that well it's it's more about the uh the interactivity it can be through social media or it can be in person it it's just really about the idea of the audience having an experience and it's an interactive experience with music it's not about I don't know about this style or that style but it's you can be a part of this experience by joining us and when you come out that's what makes the music social you can share it you can dance to it you can cry to it it's it's open how do you get more Millennials to connect with jazz and the Jazz tradition it's got to be an experience M it can't be something that's like a museum piece or something that is Preservation know uh I like them yeah that's my boys presentation Hall is a more museum piece approach yeah it it's got to be like imagine if you grew up and you had an iPhone in your hand all the time people constantly are trying to sell you stuff and everything is basically about the exploitation of your youthful ignorance so you take that concept of existence and then you take also the concept of of the Arts and Music education being cut in schools and everything just being kind of upside down in terms of in the popular culture you'll you'll never see anything that's remotely related to Jazz or an instrument except maybe like in an elevator or something like that so then you have that whole thing that's happening which makes it actually the perfect timing for you to bring this kind of music and this kind of experience to people because it's completely brand new to them to them it's like wow this is brand new I never seen anything like this before I mean real music yeah but the idea is actually it's old it's just not around so it has to be something that's unbelievable like you feel it it's not just you sitting there and watching it it's like you're a part of it can you give me an example of how you do that oh man you got to come to a show all right I mean we you know it's kind of one example of what you could do is uh you know you just don't stay on the stage the stage is everywhere it's conversational you know I'm talking to it's my instrument it's a [Music] voice [Music] [Music] oh oh yeah oh yeah [Laughter] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Applause] the ladies and gentlemen John batist thank you all thank you awesome thank you thank you thank you

Channel: The Aspen Institute

Views: 58,626

Keywords: Jon Batiste, Jonathan Batiste (Musical Artist), United States Of America (Country), Music (TV Genre), Jazz (Musical Genre), social music, Music Of The United States (Literature Subject), Classical Music (Musical Genre), Mardi Gras, Louisiana (US State), New Orleans (City/Town/Village), Louis Armstrong (Musical Artist), Stephen Colbert (Celebrity), Walter Isaacson (Author), Aspen Ideas Festival, Aspen Institute (Nonprofit Organization), Blues (Musical Genre), Stay Human

Id: T5EQFPLcD_w

Length: 51min 57sec (3117 seconds)

Published: Wed Jul 02 2014