THE NATIONAL
BROADCASTING COMPANY INVITES YOU TO SPEND
A HALF HOUR WITH THE EMINENT AMERICAN ARCHITECT,
FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT, WHO, IN HIS 83RD YEAR MADE THIS
FILM ESPECIALLY FOR NBC. THIS IS ONE OF A SERIES
OF FILM CONVERSATIONS WITH DISTINGUISHED
FIGURES OF OUR TIME. MR. WRIGHT'S GUEST IS
HUGH DOWNS OF NBC CHICAGO. COME IN THEN. HELLO, MR. WRIGHT. NICE TO SEE YOU. WHAT'S THAT YOU'VE
GOT IN YOUR HAND? I'VE GOT A BOOK HERE
I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT
IN JUST A MOMENT. I THOUGHT IN THE BRIEF
SPACE OF A HALF HOUR, WHICH IS THE TIME WE HAVE,
WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO, MR. WRIGHT, IS GET AS
CLEAR A PICTURE AS POSSIBLE FOR OUR AUDIENCE THE
ESSENCE OF YOUR THINKING ABOUT AMERICAN ARCHITECTURE
AND AMERICAN LIFE. IN A HALF
HOUR... WELL, AS MUCH AS WE'RE
ABLE TO DO IN A HALF HOUR. TO LAUNCH
RIGHT INTO IT, WOULD YOU IDENTIFY
THIS PICTURE FOR US? AH, THE PICTURE IS A LITTLE
HOUSE ON FOREST AVENUE I BUILT WHEN I WAS STILL
WITH ADLER & SULLIVAN. I THINK IT WAS
BUILT BEFORE 1893. A LITTLE TREE GREW
UP, WILLOW TREE, THROUGH THE CURVE BETWEEN
THE HOUSE AND THE STUDIO AND THERE WAS A
CONTINUAL PROCESSION AROUND THE HOUSE WHERE THE
TREE GREW THROUGH THE ROOF. 1893... I THINK MANY OF
OUR VIEWERS WOULD AGREE THAT LOOKS LIKE
A HOUSE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN
BUILT LAST YEAR. AND I THINK THAT'S AS GOOD A
WAY AS I CAN THINK OF OFFHAND TO GET INTO OUR SUBJECT
WHICH WE MIGHT CALL 60 YEARS OF LIVING
ARCHITECTURE. WHEN DID YOU FIRST DECIDE
TO MAKE ARCHITECTURE YOUR LIFE WORK? WELL, FORTUNATELY I
NEVER HAD TO DECIDE. IT WAS DECIDED FOR
ME BEFORE I WAS BORN. MY MOTHER WAS A TEACHER AND SHE
WANTED AN ARCHITECT FOR A SON, I HAPPENED TO BE THE SON, AND OF
COURSE NATURALLY AN ARCHITECT. I WAS CONDITIONED BY HER, THE
ROOM INTO WHICH I WAS BORN WAS HUNG WITH THE
WOOD ENGRAVINGS OF THE ENGLISH CATHEDRALS
MADE BY TIMOTHY COLE. DO YOU
REMEMBER THOSE? SO I WAS BORN INTO
ARCHITECTURE. WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST JOB AS
AN ARCHITECT, MR. WRIGHT? WELL, I THINK I WANTED
TO BE AN ARCHITECT AND AS NEAR AS I COULD
GET TO IT IN MADISON - WE WERE POOR, WE HAD
NO MONEY TO SEND ME TO AN ARCHITECTURAL SCHOOL
AND MADISON, OUR HOME, HAD AN
ENGINEERING SCHOOL AND A VERY KIND DEAN,
PROFESSOR CONOVER, GAVE ME A STIPEND TO WORK
FOR HIM AND WORK MY WAY THROUGH THE COURSE
AT THE UNIVERSITY AND I WORKED MY WAY
ALMOST THROUGH IT. IF I'D STAYED THREE
MONTHS LONGER I WOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN
A DEGREE AS AN ENGINEER, BUT I WAS ANXIOUS
TO BE AN ARCHITECT AND SO I STARTED
OUT FOR CHICAGO THREE MONTHS BEFORE
I'D HAVE GRADUATED. AND I SUPPOSE YOU COULD SAY
THAT MY WORK FOR CONOVER, PERHAPS, AS AN ENGINEER
DESIGNING CLIPS AND LITTLE DETAILS
OF IRONWORK WAS MY FIRST
ARCHITECTURAL JOB. WOULD YOU SAY THAT
ANY OF SULLIVAN'S IDEAS IN ARCHITECTURE INFLUENCED
YOU AT THAT TIME? NATURALLY. THEY WERE INFLUENCING NEARLY
EVERYBODY IN THE COUNTRY. HOW SO? HE WAS THE REAL
RADICAL OF HIS DAY AND HIS THOUGHT GAVE
US THE SKYSCRAPER. WHEN BUILDINGS
FIRST BEGAN TO BE TALL THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW
TO MAKE THEM TALL. THEY WOULD PUT ONE TWO-STORY
OR THREE-STORY BUILDING ON TOP OF ANOTHER
UNTIL THEY HAD ENOUGH. AND I REMEMBER LIEBER
MEISTER WHO'D COME IN - AND DID COME IN AND THROW
SOMETHING ON MY TABLE. THE WAINWRIGHT
BUILDING IN ST. LOUIS. HE SAID "WRIGHT,
THAT THING IS TALL. WHAT'S THE MATTER
WITH A TALL BUILDING?" AND THERE
IT WAS - TALL. AND AFTER THAT, WHY THE
SKYSCRAPER BEGAN TO FLOURISH AND I THINK ALL THE
SKYSCRAPERS YOU SEE TODAY WERE THE RESULT OF
LOUIS SULLIVAN'S INITIATIVE. AND THAT WAS HIS KIND OF
MIND, HIS TYPE OF THOUGHT. YOU SEE, HE SAW THE THING
DIRECTLY FOR WHAT IT WAS. MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE AT ALL
ACQUAINTED WITH YOUR WORK KNOW THE FACT THAT
YOUR WORK IS ORGANIC AND INTIMATELY BOUND UP
WITH THE LIVES OF PEOPLE. WHEN DID THIS IDEA FIRST BEGIN
TO TAKE SHAPE IN YOUR WORK? WELL, THAT'S PRETTY
DIFFICULT TO SAY. OF COURSE IN MY YOUTH
NOTHING EXISTED OF THE SORT THAT I
WANTED TO SEE HAPPEN. IT DIDN'T EXIST ANYWHERE...
IT HAD TO BE MADE. AND IT HAPPENED OUT HERE
ON THE WESTERN PRAIRIES OF CHICAGO THE FIRST
EXPRESSION IN HUMAN TERMS OF WHAT WE CALL NOW
ORGANIC ARCHITECTURE. WHEN YOU USE THE
WORD "ORGANIC", IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT
FROM MY USE OF THE WORD "MODERN ARCHITECTURE"
IN YOUR OPINION? VERY DIFFERENT BECAUSE
MODERN ARCHITECTURE IS MERELY SOMETHING BUILT TODAY,
BUT ORGANIC ARCHITECTURE IS AN ARCHITECTURE
FROM WITHIN, OUTWARD, IN WHICH
ENTITY IS THE IDEAL. WE DON'T USE THE WORD
"ORGANIC" AS REFERRING TO SOMETHING HANGING IN
A BUTCHER SHOP, YOU KNOW. ORGANIC MEANS, IN THE
PHILOSOPHIC SENSE, ENTITY. WHERE THE WHOLE IS TO THE PART
AS THE PART IS TO THE WHOLE. AND WHERE THE
NATURE OF THE MATERIAL IS THE NATURE
OF THE PURPOSE. THE NATURE OF THE ENTIRE
PERFORMANCE BECOMES A NECESSITY AND OUT OF THAT
COMES WHAT SIGNIFICANCE YOU CAN GIVE THE BUILDING
AS A CREATIVE ARTIST. WELL, WITH THAT IN MIND, WHAT
DO YOU TRY TO PUT INTO A HOUSE WHEN YOU
DESIGN ONE? FIRST OF ALL, THE FAMILY
IT'S DESIGNED FOR, AS A RULE. IT'S NOT ALWAYS EASY AND
NOT ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL, BUT USUALLY SO. AND WE TRY TO PUT INTO
THAT HOUSE A SENSE OF UNITY OF THE ALL TOGETHER THAT
MAKES IT PART OF ITS SITE. IF THE THING IS SUCCESSFUL,
THE ARCHITECT'S EFFORT, YOU CAN'T
IMAGINE THAT HOUSE ANYWHERE THAN
RIGHT WHERE IT IS. IT'S A PART OF ITS ENVIRONMENT
AND IT GRACES ITS ENVIRONMENT RATHER THAN
DISGRACES IT. A STRIKING EXAMPLE OF A HOUSE
AND SITE GOING TOGETHER IS OF COURSE
BEAR RUN HOUSE. HOW DID YOU RELATE
THE SITE TO THE HOUSE? WELL, THERE WAS A ROCK LEDGE
BANK BESIDE THE WATERFALL AND THE NATURAL THING
SEEMED TO BE TO CANTILEVER THE HOUSE FROM THE
ROCK BANK OVER THE FALLS. AND THE BEAR RUN HOUSE
CAME INTO POSSESSION OF CONCRETE AND STEEL
OF WHICH TO BUILD A HOUSE AND OF COURSE THE
GRAMMAR OF THAT HOUSE GEARED UP ON THAT BASIS,
AND THEN OF COURSE MR. KAUFMANN'S LOVE
FOR A BEAUTIFUL SITE. HE LOVED THE SITE WHERE
THE HOUSE WAS BUILT AND HE LIKED TO LISTEN
TO THE WATERFALL, SO THAT WAS A PRIME
MOTIVE IN THE DESIGN. I THINK YOU CAN
HEAR THE WATERFALL WHEN YOU LOOK
AT THE DESIGN. AT LEAST
IT'S THERE, AND HE LIVES INTIMATELY
WITH THE THING HE LOVED. TELL US ABOUT YOUR OWN
HOME, MR. WRIGHT, TALIESIN. WELL, TALIESIN, OF
COURSE WAS BUILT IN 1911 AND WAS A KIND OF
REFUGE AT THE TIME. I WAS GETTING A WORM'S
EYE VIEW OF SOCIETY AND NEEDED TO GET
INTO THE COUNTRY AND MY MOTHER HAD
PREPARED THIS SITE FOR ME AND ASKED ME TO COME
TAKE IT AND I DID. AND OF COURSE THE COUNTRYSIDE
IS SOUTHERN WISCONSIN - LOW HILLS, PROTRUDING
ROCK LEDGES, WOODED SITE AND THE SAME THING
APPLIED TO TALIESIN AS APPLIED LATER
ON TO BEAR RUN. THE SITE DETERMINED
THE FEATURES AND CHARACTER
OF THE HOUSE. TALIESIN REALLY IS A STONE HOUSE
AND IT IS A HOUSE OF THE NORTH, IT WAS BUILT
FOR THE NORTH. I LOVED THE ICICLES
THAT CAME ON THE EAVES AND IN WINTER THE SNOW
WOULD SWEEP UP OVER IT AND IT LOOKED LIKE A HILL
ITSELF, OR ONE OF THE HILLS. AND IT WAS BUILT TO
BELONG TO THE REGION THAT MY GRANDFATHER
CAME TO WHEN THE INDIANS WERE STILL THERE
ABOUT 125 YEARS AGO. AND THE VALLEY WAS CALLED
"THE VALLEY" LOVINGLY AND IT WAS A
LOVABLE PLACE. AND THE VALLEY WAS CLEARED BY
MY GRANDFATHER AND HIS SONS AND TALIESIN IS AN INSTANCE
OF THE THIRD GENERATION GOING BACK TO THE SOIL
AND REALLY DEVELOPING IT AND TRYING TO MAKE
SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL OF IT. WHERE DID THE NAME "TALIESIN"
COME FROM, MR. WRIGHT? MY PEOPLE WERE WELSH,
MY MOTHER'S PEOPLE WERE WELSH
IMMIGRANTS. MY OWN GRANDFATHER WAS
A HATTER AND A PREACHER. AND THEY CULTIVATED ELEMENT
IN THE COUNTY AND TALIESIN - THEY ALL HAD WELSH
NAMES FOR THEIR PLACES - MY SISTER'S HOME WAS
TANYDERI, "UNDER THE OAKS". SO I CHOSE A WELSH NAME
FOR MINE AND IT WAS TALIESIN, A DRUID, A MEMBER OF KING
ARTHUR'S ROUND TABLE WHO SANG THE
GLORIES OF FINE ART. I GUESS ABOUT THE ONLY
BRITISHER WHO EVER DID. SO I CHOSE TALIESIN FOR A NAME,
IT MEANS "SHINING BROW". AND TALIESIN IS BUILT LIKE A
BROW ON THE EDGE OF A HILL, NOT ON TOP OF A HILL BECAUSE
I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD NEVER BUILD ON TOP OF
ANYTHING DIRECTLY. IF YOU BUILD ON TOP OF
A HILL YOU LOSE THE HILL. IF YOU BUILD ONE SIDE OF
THE TOP YOU HAVE THE HILL AND THE EMINENCE THAT
YOU DESIRE, YOU SEE? WELL, TALIESIN'S
LIKE THAT. IN THE CASE OF TALIESIN WEST,
I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE GREAT CONTRAST BETWEEN
THAT AND THE OTHER TALIESIN WHEN IT WAS BUILT
FOR THE SAME PERSON, SINCE BOTH ARE YOUR HOMES,
WHY THAT DIFFERENCE? WELL, YOU SEE, THE
TERRAIN CHANGED ABSOLUTELY. HERE WE CAME TO THE DESERT
WHERE THERE'S ASTONISHING AND EXCITING
NEW FORMS. IN WISCONSIN EROSION
HAS, BY WAY OF AGE, SOFTENED
EVERYTHING. OUT THERE EVERYTHING
WAS SHARP, SAVAGE, EVERYTHING WAS
ARMED IN THE DESERT AND IT WAS AN ENTIRELY
NEW EXPERIENCE. AND SO FOLLOWING OUT THE
SAME FEELING FOR STRUCTURE, THE SAME IDEA OF BUILDING
THAT WE HAD IN THERE, IT HAD TO BE ABSOLUTELY
ACCORDING TO THE DESERT. SO TALIESIN WEST IS
ACCORDING TO ITS SITE AGAIN, ACCORDING TO
ITS ENVIRONMENT AND THE PURPOSE OF
COURSE IS SIMILAR, IT HASN'T
CHANGED MUCH. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN ORGANIC ARCHITECTURE AND CONVENTIONAL
ARCHITECTURE? YOU MEAN
STRUCTURALLY, I IMAGINE. YES. WELL, YOU SEE THE OLD POST
AND BEAM CONSTRUCTION - YOU CAN SAY THIS IS THE POST
AND BEAM - POST AND BEAM - IT WAS ALL A KIND
OF SUPERIMPOSITION. AND IF YOU
WANTED PARTITIONS THEY CUT AND THEY
WOULD BUTT - SEE? CUT, BUTT
AND SLASH. AND IF YOU WANTED
TENSION YOU HAD TO RIVET SOMETHING TO SOMETHING
AND MAKE A CONNECTION THAT MIGHT GIVE WAY. WELL, ORGANIC ARCHITECTURE
BROUGHT THE PRINCIPLES TOGETHER SO THAT A BUILDING
WAS MORE LIKE THIS. SEE, YOU COULD PULL
ON THE STRUCTURE. IT HAD TENSILE
STRENGTH GOING TO STEEL AND GOING TO STEEL YOU
COULD HAVE GREAT SPACES, AND THE GREAT SPACES COULD
BE PROTECTED WITH GLASS. THE ORIENTALS, OF
COURSE, THE GREEKS, NEVER HAD ANY
SUCH FACILITY. IF THEY'D HAD
STEEL AND GLASS, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO
DO ANY THINKING TODAY. WE'D BE
COPYING THEM. BUT NOW SOMETHING HAD TO BE
DONE WITH THESE NEW MATERIALS, THESE GREAT NEW RESOURCES,
AND THEY ARE TREMENDOUS. AND BECAUSE OF THAT PRINCIPLE
OF TENUITY, WE COULD USE THE CANTILEVER AND INTO STRUCTURE
CAME THIS ELEMENT OF CONTINUITY. YOU SEE, ONE THING MERGING
INTO ANOTHER AND ON ANOTHER RATHER THAN THIS
CUT, BUTT, AND SLASH. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS SAME
ELEMENT OF STRENGTH - THAT'S WHAT BROUGHT THE
IMPERIAL HOTEL THROUGH INTACT THROUGH THE
EARTHQUAKE. THAT PRINCIPLE OF TENUITY
AND OF FLEXIBILITY... THIS, INSTEAD OF RIGIDITY
WHICH COULD BE BROKEN. WOULD YOU RECOUNT FOR US
SOME OF THE THINGS WHICH ARE FUNDAMENTALLY YOUR OWN
INNOVATIONS IN ARCHITECTURE? WELL, IT WOULD BE
PRETTY DIFFICULT AND BE A
LONG STORY TOO. PERHAPS TOO
LONG FOR THIS. FIRST OF ALL CAME THIS
NEW SENSE OF SPACE AS A REALITY OF
THE BUILDING. THEN CAME THE
COUNTENANCE OF THAT SPACE WHICH IS MORE OR LESS WHAT
I TERMED "STREAMLINED". THAT WORD "STREAMLINED"
GOT INTO THE LANGUAGE I THINK ABOUT THAT TIME
THROUGH MY EFFORT. AND THEN THERE
WAS THE OPEN PLAN. INSTEAD OF A BUILDING BEING A
SERIES OF BOXES AND CLOSETS IT BECAME MORE AND MORE OPEN,
MORE AND MORE SENSE OF SPACE. THE OUTSIDE CAME
IN MORE AND MORE AND THE INSIDE
WENT OUT MORE. THAT WENT ALONG UNTIL WE HAD
PRACTICALLY A NEW FLOOR PLAN AND IT'S BEEN REFERRED TO
ALWAYS AS THE OPEN PLAN. THAT WAS THE
DIRECT RESULT. AND OF COURSE THERE ARE
STRUCTURAL IMPLICATIONS WHICH WE HINTED
AT A WHILE AGO. HOW THE BUILDING HAD
HAD TENUITY INSTEAD OF A BUILDING WITHOUT ANY
THAT COULD FALL APART. THESE HOUSES BUILT UPON THIS
PLAN ARE GOOD FOR 300 YEARS I SHOULD THINK.
SEVERAL CENTURIES. AND IN THAT STRUCTURAL
DISPENSATION A GREAT MANY FEATURES AROSE LIKE PERHAPS
THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE WAS GRAVITY HEAT,
FLOOR HEAT... WHERE THE HEAT IS IN THE
FLOOR BENEATH THE SLAB IN A BROKEN
STONE BED. AND WITH A THICK
DRUGGET ON THE FLOOR YOU HAVE A RESERVOIR
OF HEAT BENEATH YOU. SO YOU SIT WARM, YOU CAN
OPEN THE WINDOWS AND STILL BE COMFORTABLE AND THE CHILDREN
PLAY ON A NICE WARM SURFACE AND IF YOUR FEET ARE WARM
AND YOU SIT WARM, YOU'RE WARM. OH, AND I THINK THE CORNER
WINDOW IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD MENTION IN
CONNECTION WITH INNOVATION, AND YOU CAN JUDGE
FROM WHAT HAPPENED BY WAY OF THE
CORNER WINDOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO
MANY OF THE INNOVATIONS. THE CORNER WINDOW WAS
INDICATIVE OF AN IDEA CONCEIVED EARLY IN MY WORK THAT
THE BOX WAS A FASCIST SYMBOL AND THAT THE ARCHITECTURE
OF FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY NEEDED SOMETHING
BESIDES THE BOX. SO I STARTED OUT TO DESTROY
THE BOX AS A BUILDING. THE CORNER WINDOW CAME
IN AS ALL THE COMPREHENSION THAT EVER WAS GIVEN TO THAT ACT
OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE BOX. THE LIGHT CAME IN WHERE IT
HAD NEVER COME BEFORE, VISION WENT OUT AND YOU HAD
SCREENS INSTEAD OF WALLS. HERE THE WALLS
VANISHED AS WALLS AND THE BOX
VANISHED AS A BOX AND THE CORNER WINDOW
WENT AROUND THE WORLD BUT THE IDEA OF THE
THING NEVER FOLLOWED IT. AND IT BECAME MERELY A
WINDOW INSTEAD OF THE RELEASE OF AN ENTIRE
SENSE OF STRUCTURE. I'VE HEARD INDIRECT
LIGHTING ATTRIBUTED TO YOU, IS THAT RIGHT? I DID THE FIRST SO-CALLED
INDIRECT LIGHTING VERY EARLY - I GUESS IT WAS
ABOUT 50 YEARS AGO. INCORPORATED IT BEHIND SHELVES,
CAST IT ON THE CEILING, THEN BURY IT IN THE
CEILING IN VARIOUS WAYS, DOING I SUPPOSE
NEARLY EVERYTHING THAT'S BEING
DONE TODAY. I DON'T KNOW OF
ANYTHING NEW. YOU RECENTLY BUILT A NEW
CHURCH AND IT'S NOT TYPICAL OF MOST CHURCHES
IN OUR EXPERIENCE. COULD YOU
TELL US WHY? WELL, THERE YOU SEE THE
UNITARIANISM OF MY FOREFATHERS FOUND EXPRESSION IN A BUILDING
BY ONE OF THE OFFSPRING. THE IDEA OF UNITY - THE
UNITARIANS BELIEVED IN THE UNITY OF ALL THINGS
AND I TRIED TO BUILD A BUILDING HERE THAT
EXPRESSED THAT SENSE OF UNITY. THE PLAN, YOU
SEE, IS TRIANGLE. THE ROOF IS TRIANGULAR AND
ALL OF IT SHOULD GET THIS EXPRESSION OF REVERENCE
WITHOUT THE STEEPLE. THE BUILDING ITSELF COVERING
ALL IN ALL AND EACH IN ALL SAYS WHAT THE STEEPLE
USED TO SAY, BUT SAYS IT WITH GREATER
REVERENCE I THINK TO THE FORM OF
THE STRUCTURE. AND I DIDN'T LIKE TO BUILD
A CHURCH IN THE CITY. I THOUGHT TO TAKE IT INTO THE
COUNTRY AND MAKE IT MORE LIKE A COUNTRY CLUB AND ITS ASPECTS
SHOULD BE MORE INTERESTING AND INVITING TO
THE CONGREGATION SO I PERSUADED
THEM TO GO OUT. AND WE WENT OUT BUT WE
DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH I GUESS BECAUSE BEFORE WE GOT
THE CHURCH BUILT THE TOWN CAME OUT AND
WE FOUND OURSELVES SUBURBAN INSTEAD
OF IN THE COUNTRY. BUT IF YOU'RE GOING
TO DECENTRALIZE NOW YOU'VE GOT TO GO
FAR AND GO FAST BECAUSE EVERYTHING
IS COMING ALONG. YOU CAN SEE DECENTRALIZATION
EVERYWHERE NOW. YOU CAN SEE THE FACTORY
GOING INTO THE COUNTRY. YOU CAN SEE THE MERCHANDISER
IMPATIENT WITH THE TRAFFIC PROBLEM MOVING
OUT TO THE COUNTRY. I THINK THE GAS STATION WAS
AN AGENT TO DECENTRALIZATION. ALL THESE THINGS ARE
GOING ON AROUND YOU WHETHER YOU
ACKNOWLEDGE THEM OR NOT. NOW IT HAS TO
BE PLANNED FOR. IT'S BETTER TO PLAN
FOR IT THAN IT IS TO LET IT TAKE PLACE AS THE
CITIES THEMSELVES GREW. NEW YORK, FOR INSTANCE,
IS JUST AN OVERGROWN CRAZED VILLAGE
IN PLAN. AND SO IT IS WITH
ALL OUR GREAT CITIES. AND WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO
BE THE GROWTH OF THE CITY IS REALLY GOING TO BE
FINALLY THE DEATH OF THE CITY. IF YOU WERE TO PLAN
AND BUILD AN ENTIRE CITY, INCLUDING THE ELEMENTS OF
SHELTER AND WORK, RECREATION, AND WORSHIP AS WE
WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, WHAT WOULD YOU INTEND TO
ACCOMPLISH IN DOING THIS? WELL, I THINK PRIMARILY THE USE
OF AND SYMPATHY WITH THE SITE, THE NATURE OF THE GROUND, AND
THE PURPOSE OF THE CITY OR TOWN OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE,
AND OF COURSE THE CHARACTER OF THE INHABITANTS WOULD
BE A LITTLE CONSIDERATION IN THAT CONNECTION.
IN OTHER WORDS IT WOULD BE A NATIVE AND
NATURAL PERFORMANCE. ORGANIC ARCHITECTURE IS
A NATURAL ARCHITECTURE, A NATURAL
ARCHITECTURE. NOW WHAT WOULD A
NATURAL ARCHITECTURE BE? IT WOULDN'T BE SOME ECLECTICISM,
SOMETHING THAT YOU PICKED UP SOMEWHERE BY WAY OF TASTE
AND APPLIED TO THE THING. YOU'D GO INTO THE NATURE
STUDY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND COME OUT WITH THIS THING
FROM WITHIN, WOULDN'T YOU? WELL, IT WOULD APPLY TO
A TOWN, APPLY TO A CITY, APPLY TO THE
PLANNING OF ANYTHING. EVEN TO A FACTORY? ESPECIALLY
A FACTORY. WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER ARE
THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTORS IN THIS CASE, THE
BUILDING OF A FACTORY? WELL, I THINK THE
HUMAN VALUES INVOLVED. I THINK THE LIVES
OF THE WORKERS. I DON'T SEE WHY IT ISN'T
A MORE PROFITABLE THING TO MAKE THOSE
LIVES HAPPY. THEY'LL BE MORE
PRODUCTIVE. AND ENVIRONMENT AS
WE FOUND IT TO BE WHEN WE BUILT THE
JOHNSON BUILDING, RESULTS IN A GREATLY INCREASED
EFFICIENCY ON THEIR PART. IF YOU MAKE THEM PROUD
OF THEIR ENVIRONMENT AND HAPPY TO BE WHERE
THEY ARE AND GIVE THEM SOME DIGNITY AND PRIDE
IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT, IT ALL COMES OUT
TO THE GOOD WHERE THE PRODUCT
IS CONCERNED. THE JOHNSON PEOPLE
HAVE FOUND THAT OUT. THE JOHNSON PEOPLE HAVE
A PROFIT SHARING SYSTEM WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES AND WHEN
THEY GOT INTO THAT BUILDING ONE OF THE FIRST CONSEQUENCES
WAS TEA IN THE AFTERNOON. AND THEY DIDN'T
LIKE TO GO HOME. THEY LOVED TO STAY IN
THE BUILDING, BE THERE, COME EARLY, ENJOY IT
AS CHARMING FEATURES OF A VERY INTERESTING,
EXCITING ENVIRONMENT. AND IT IS PROFITABLE, IT DOES,
UH, I THINK THE PHRASE IS "PAY OFF", ISN'T IT,
IN OUR COUNTRY? AND THE PAY OFF, OF
COURSE, IS THE CRITERION BY WHICH EVERYTHING
IS DECIDED. BUT EVEN DECIDING IT
BY WAY OF THE PAY OFF - A HEALTHFUL
ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THE WORKERS CAN
TAKE PRIDE PAYS OFF. OVER THE YEARS, MR. WRIGHT, THE
AMERICAN PRESS AND SECTIONS OF YOUR OWN PROFESSION HAVE
NOT ALWAYS TREATED YOU KINDLY. I JUST WONDER IF YOU HAVE
ANY COMMENT ABOUT THIS? WELL, I DON'T SEE
ANY REASON WHY THEY SHOULD HAVE
TREATED ME KINDLY. I WAS ENTIRELY CONTRARY TO
EVERYTHING THEY BELIEVED IN. IF I WAS RIGHT
THEY WERE WRONG, WHY SHOULD THEY
TREAT ME KINDLY? IT WAS A QUESTION AT
ONE TIME I SUPPOSE OF THEIR SURVIVAL
OR MINE. AND IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES YOU
KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, DON'T YOU? SOMETHING
HAS TO GIVE. IT'S STILL HAPPENING IN A
WAY BUT NOT SO MUCH NOW. BUT IT IS TRUE THAT STILL
THE GREATEST APPRECIATION FOR WHAT WE'VE DONE COMES
FROM EUROPEAN COUNTRIES AND THE ORIENT RATHER
THAN FROM OUR OWN COUNTRY. WE'RE VERY SLOW TO TAKE THINGS
ON THAT OCCURRED AT HOME. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE
IDEA OF OUR PEOPLE THAT CULTURE CAME
FROM ABROAD... AND IT DID. YOU CAN'T BLAME
THEM FOR THINKING SO. THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THIS
DEVELOPING IN THE TALL GRASS OF THE WESTERN PRAIRIES
- THAT WAS NOT EXCITING. IN FACT THEY RATHER RESENTED
HEARING ABOUT IT IN THAT SENSE. SO WHEN IT HAD GONE ABROAD
AND IT HAD BEEN UNDERSTOOD AND APPRECIATED ABROAD AND
THE EUROPEANS CAME OVER HERE WITH IT, THEY COULD SELL
IT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THEY WOULD
TAKE IT FROM THEM WHEN THEY DIDN'T LIKE
TO TAKE IT FROM ME. THROUGH THE SPAN OF
YOUR LIFE THERE HAVE BEEN GREAT CHANGES
IN THE WORLD... ECONOMICALLY, SOCIALLY,
AND IDEOLOGICALLY. THROUGH YEARS OF WAR AND
PEACE, THROUGH YEARS THAT SPELLED GREAT HOPES AND
GREAT DISASTERS FOR MANKIND. HAVE ANY OF THESE CHANGES
INFLUENCED YOUR WORK OR YOUR
THINKING? NO. AND IT'S A
LITTLE UNFORTUNATE THAT MY WORK COULDN'T HAVE
INFLUENCED THOSE CHANGES. PROBABLY IF IT HAD BEEN BETTER
UNDERSTOOD I MIGHT HAVE HAD A VERY BENEFICIAL INFLUENCE
ON THOSE CHANGES, BUT I CAN'T SAY
THAT THOSE CHANGES HAD ANY EFFECT
ON MY WORK. MY IDEA WAS PRETTY WELL
FIXED, I WAS PRETTY SURE OF MY GROUND AND MY STAR
AND I SAW NO OCCASION... YOU SEE, EARLY IN LIFE I
HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN HONEST ARROGANCE AND
HYPOCRITICAL HUMILITY. I CHOSE HONEST
ARROGANCE AND HAVE SEEN NO OCCASION
TO CHANGE EVEN NOW... WE'RE PURSUING THE SAME
CENTER LINE THROUGH ALL CHANGES AND I'M CONFIDENT THAT
THE PRINCIPLE OF OUR WORK WHICH IS ITS HEART
AND CENTER LINE IS REALLY THE IDEOLOGY
OF A DEMOCRACY. AND IF DEMOCRACY IS EVER
TO HAVE A FREE ARCHITECTURE, I MEAN IF IT'S EVER
TO HAVE FREEDOM, HAVE A CULTURE
OF ITS OWN, ARCHITECTURE WILL BE ITS
BASIC EFFECT AND CONDITION AND I BELIEVE WE
HAVE THE CENTER LINE OF THAT
ARCHITECTURE.... ARCHITECTURE FOR
FREEDOM AND FOR DEMOCRACY. AMONG OTHER THINGS,
YOU'RE A TEACHER, MR. WRIGHT. IN YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
WHAT CONCLUSIONS HAVE YOU REACHED AS TO THE ROLES
AND DUTIES OF THE TEACHER AND THOSE OF
THE STUDENT? I'M EXPECTED TO
ANSWER THAT NOW, AM I? I'M NO TEACHER.
NEVER WANTED TO TEACH AND DON'T BELIEVE
IN TEACHING AN ART. SCIENCE, YES,
BUSINESS, OF COURSE, BUT AN ART
CANNOT BE TAUGHT. YOU CAN ONLY INCULCATE IT,
YOU CAN BE AN EXEMPLAR, YOU CAN CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE
IN WHICH IT CAN GROW. BUT I SUPPOSE I
BEING AN EXEMPLAR WOULD BE CALLED A TEACHER
IN SPITE OF MYSELF. SO GO AHEAD,
CALL ME A TEACHER. DO YOU FEEL THAT
AMERICAN ARCHITECTURE HAS PROGRESSED GENERALLY
OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS? NO, I'M AFRAID
IT HAS NOT. I THINK THAT THE EFFECTS HAVE
BEEN SOUGHT AND MULTIPLIED AND THE REAL CAUSE AT
THE CENTER OF THE THING SEEMS TO
HAVE LANGUISHED. IF THEY ONCE MASTERED
THE INNER PRINCIPLE, INFINITE VARIETY
WOULD BE THE RESULT. NO ONE WOULD HAVE
TO COPY ANYBODY ELSE. AND MY GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT IN
IT ALL IS INSTEAD OF EMULATION, WHAT I SEE IS A
WAVE OF IMITATION. IN YOUR LONG LIFE OF PRACTICAL
AND ARTISTIC ENDEAVOR, WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER IS YOUR
MOST SATISFACTORY ACHIEVEMENT? OH, MY DEAR BOY. THE NEXT ONE,
OF COURSE. THE NEXT
BUILDING I BUILD. GO ON FROM THERE,
WHAT BUILDING IS THAT? I DON'T KNOW, I'M NOT SURE, BUT
WHATEVER IT IS, THAT WILL BE IT. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE
GREATEST DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOUR CAREER? I THINK I TOUCHED
ON IT A MOMENT AGO WHEN I SAID THAT INSTEAD
OF EMULATION THAT I'D SEEN CHIEFLY IMITATION OF THE
IMITATION BY THE IMITATOR. MIGHT NOT THAT BE
THE PRICE THAT YOU PAY FOR BEING AHEAD
OF YOUR TIME? WELL, I'VE HAD TO THINK
ABOUT IT A GOOD DEAL OF RECENT YEARS, AND
LOOKING BACK I SUPPOSE THAT THAT'S THE WAY THE
THING ALWAYS HAPPENS. PROBABLY IT HAS
ALWAYS BEEN SO. AND IT'S A LITTLE MORE OBVIOUS
IN OUR DAY BECAUSE OF COMMERCIALIZED CONDITIONS
AND EVERYBODY BEING IN A KIND OF FREE FOR ALL
TO PULL OUT WHAT HE CAN AS SOON AS HE CAN AND
MAKE THE MOST OF IT. SO I DON'T SUPPOSE IT'S ANY
WORSE THAN IT EVER HAS BEEN. AND MAYBE THAT'S THE
WAY IT HAS TO COME. MAYBE THAT'S THE WAY GREAT
IDEAS EVENTUALLY OBTAIN - BY WAY OF ABUSE. WELL, IT'S AN OLD QUESTION
THAT'S NOT TO BE SETTLED HERE NOR IS IT TO BE
SETTLED BY ME. FOR THE PAST HALF HOUR
WE HAVE BEEN VISITING FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT WITH
HIS GUEST, HUGH DOWNS. THIS IS ONE OF A SERIES
OF FILMED CONVERSATIONS WITH DISTINGUISHED
FIGURES OF OUR TIME.
