We got a special
thing happened here, which I will tell you about
our special guests in just a moment. But we do want to greet
every single Fresh Life location, church online, those
watching at watch parties, podcast-- Yeah, we're so glad to hear. This is a great day. --et cetera. This is the finale of
a series of messages that we have been in called
Morning, Noon, and Night. And we're talking about the
rhythms of a healthy soul. It's been fantastic. This week four of that series. And we are joined by a friend
of Jennie and I's, Debra Fileta. Did I say that right? You are so close. How do you say it? "Fi-la-ta." "Fi-la-ta." Like save some "for lata." Save some for lata. Can't forget it now. Order a Filet-O-Fish. Yeah, exactly. McDonald's reference. So the T-- a casual
McDonald's reference-- speaking of a healthy
soul, the T is silent. That's not helping. Almost silent. "Fi-la-ta.". "Fi-la-ta." Yeah, there you go. You got it. We're joined by Debra
Fileta, who has-- I feel like we're
friends because we've been on Skype before and-- Yeah. --all that, and
your books, and-- We've had some
great conversations. --some times together. We originally met-- we were on
a panel together for relevant-- speaking of relationships
and all this stuff. And it was such a funny
thing because she's-- I mean, obviously, she's
written a couple books. You have a third coming, right? Yep, mm-hmm. You working on it
now or is it done? It's done. It's coming out in January. It's "done-zo." Yeah. We're in there-- Very-- congratulations. It's a big deal. That's a big idea. It really is. Y'all would clap if
you ever wrote a book. I'm telling you something,
especially if you ever wrote a third book. But it's like babies. It doesn't get easier. It is like babies. It does not get easier. It really is. You have to push. TMI. TMI. But when we were on this
panel, I remember at one point, you mentioned that you do
Skype-based counseling. You're right, yeah. And I said joking-- half joking, can
I get your number. Would like to have-- because we were working through
some things in our marriage at the time. Yeah. And you've been
so helpful for us in navigating because you're
a professional counselor. Yeah. You have a master's
degree in counseling. Right. And anyhow, I
thought it would be fun for this final
message in the series as we're talking about
how to have a healthy soul to talk to someone who
literally helps people navigate through that. And so that would be just
a fun way to do that. Yeah. And let me just pause
and say, I mean, how awesome is it that
leadership is setting that example from the top down? [APPLAUSE] I think counseling
gets such a stigma sometimes, and even especially,
I would say, in the church. And so honestly,
you guys are setting the example of what
it looks like to be healthy from the top down. We can't just preach
and teach health if we're not living
it out ourselves. So it's just-- it's exciting. It's exciting. Well, and I just want to thank
you for your voice in my life, whether it has been
through counseling or through your book, which
is-- this is so amazing. But I'm just so thankful
for your voice in my life, really giving me
tools, and phrases, and truth to help in our
relationship and in my life. And so, thank you. I'm just thankful
for your voice. Hey, man, I'm so
thankful for that. Well, to start us off,
we're in this series, just-- we wanted to really
examine culture and what we're
accepting as normal. Yeah. And the average American
says that they're more anxious than they were last
year and young people dealing with higher levels
of anxiety than what would have been
for those dealing with severe psychological
issues 50 years ago now being normative in our day. And so just from your
perspective, what do you see as being the
trends on anxiety and compulsive behavior,
just that kind of stuff. Do you see that becoming
more and more of an issue? Definitely. It is becoming more
of an issue, and I think for multiple reasons. But one of the reasons is our
culture really lends to that. We're so busy. It's so chaotic. We don't have time
to sit and think. We don't have time to reflect. We don't time to focus
on our internal health. And I think part of the problem,
too, in Christian culture is we assume just because
we're Christian we're healthy. And we assume that
in relationships just because that
person's a Christian, that means they're healthy. When we enter a
relationship with Jesus, we don't just assume
that we're going to be healthy physically,
like I got saved, and now I'm my most fit ever. We don't say that kind of stuff. I got a six pack. I got saved. Exactly. We work towards it. When I get baptized,
I got biceps. It's great. Exactly. You know, it's funny,
that sound so ridiculous. But we apply that same
mentality to our soul. Wow. We apply that same mentality
to our relational health. We think, I'm saved. Jesus is in my heart now, so
I am automatically healthy. But we've got to be working at
that if that's important to us. And so, I love this
series and the fact that we're putting practical
steps to what it looks like to have a healthy soul. Yeah. And so with regards to just the
nonstop nature of information, the nonstop nature of noise,
I have found in myself, like I look down on
myself on my phone while watching TV, but still
feeling like I can't not-- I can't focus. You know what I mean? I'm just watching myself. What do you think that is that-- obviously, it's the dopamine,
it's all that stuff. Right. We're getting overwhelmed by
all just the constant streams? I think we are. And it's like-- I joke
sometimes that my brain has become like a
six-lane LA highway, there's so much going on. And I feel like in
Jesus' time there was just a sense of reflection
built into society because they had the time. There was no distractions
like we have today. And so I feel like
we are bombarded. And we've got to
fight against it. We've got to go
upstream if there's any hope for us to
have a healthy life and a healthy soul. And it has to become
part of our rhythm. Like you were saying, it's
gotta be a discipline-- Yeah. --and something
that we're putting on the top of our
checklist of things we need to do,
especially for those of us who say we're Christians. If we're pouring
into people, what are we pouring out if
we're not getting filled, if we're not getting refreshed? Where is that coming from? And how long is it
going to last us? Yeah. Where do you see
silence playing a part? Because obviously,
it's easy to live a life where you never ever,
for a minute, aren't quiet. Yeah. But that's technically torture. Like you see in movies,
they tie people to a chair, and make them listen
to loud music all day. But that's essentially,
you know what I mean, what we're doing with
for a life without quiet, life without solitude. Yeah. I think we're scared of it. We're scared of solitude. And we almost see
it as a scary thing. You ever hear of the term
solitary confinement. Yes! And it's like that
idea that being alone is this torturous thing. And I think in a way
it is because we're made for community. So there is health in community
and living in community, not living in isolation. But if we don't make
any time for solitude, then we don't have
room for Jesus because He speaks
in that solitude. He speaks on the Sabbath. He speaks in our time of rest. And the saddest part is
I think so many of us don't realize our need for
rest until we burn out-- Wow! Totally, gosh. --and then we realize
we're not invincible, and something needs to change. But how much better if we
could get to that realization before we burn out? How much more could God do
with us before burn out? Yeah, for sure. So speaking of burn out, and
speaking of that not doing something until
it's drastic, it's kind of the same way
with counseling-- Yeah. --like death to the
last ditch effort. It is, usually. We've tried everything
else, now I'll do that-- It is --as opposed to like, hey,
this could become an issue, learning to see the
dashboard indicators on-- Totally. --when they're just
saying change oil, not when they're saying your
car is about to be on fire. You know what I mean? Totally. And how many of us-- do you take your car in
for regular oil changes and maintenance? So what if we-- Heavy conviction. You're right, I need
to do that right now. I was just two months late. I know, right? Yeah, right. The dash light's on. I drove her car, and I
looked at the sticker, and I was like, dear
God, that is not OK. You know what I mean? Exactly. You're right, we
neglect that, too. But it's like the rhythm of
that is built into our life. We got to do this if we want
our car to last a long time. We don't do that with
other parts of life. And what if we were to see
that time, that counseling process, that time with
Jesus, that time to get into a rhythm of a healthy
soul, what if we saw that as preventative
maintenance instead of, OK, my car broke down, I
really need help now? Right! Well, I mean, for me growing up,
counseling was more like, OK, if it's really bad-- Right. --then that's what happens. But for us to be able to
now just admit and say, no, this is actually what
we want to have in place so that we're growing, and we're
healthy, and we're vibrant, and not just the
last ditch effort. Well, I think
people in the church fear that you're going to
replace God with counseling, or replace God-- but you can
replace God with the Bible. Yeah. You can replace
God with anything. So I mean, whatever
can be done that is not helpful can be done in
a positive way as well. Totally. And I think that that's the
fear is that we're somehow neglecting the Holy Spirit. But God told us we're
supposed to look into our patterns of thinking. We're supposed to
renew our minds. Right, absolutely. And so what you're
really doing is letting that happen in a guided way. And I think there's something
to be said of the passage where iron sharpens iron, if you're
having a hard time wrapping your brain around it,
that's exactly what it is. You're allowing yourself
to be put in front of iron so that you can be
sharpened and grow. And even counselors
need counseling. I have gotten some incredible
truths poured into my life at some of the darkest
times through counseling. We all go through
anxiety sometimes. We all go through
depression sometimes. It's a sickness of
the body and the mind. It's not necessarily a
sickness of the spirit. And I think that's
where people struggle. It's like if I'm struggling,
then maybe something's wrong with my spirit. But we don't say that
when we've got diabetes. Yeah. We think it's something
wrong with my body. And so I just wish
people could have-- I mean, God is in it all. God is in the physical. God is in the emotional. God is in the mental,
the spiritual. And he wants us to align
to him in all those areas. Yeah. Talk to that for a minute. So obviously, we know,
OK, my physical body, I need to get exercise, and I
need to try and eat good, right? Yeah. What are some of
the things that we can do for those other
two aspects of who we are to keep our health in check? Or what would be some
ways on the dashboard, some practical, tangible
things, like hey, this would be a sign that
something's not going so good? Totally. Sometimes even physical
health is a sign that our emotional health
isn't in the right place. If you've ever been in
a season where you're going to the doctor
all the time, you've got all kinds of crazy
things happening in your body, you can't figure out what it
is, sometimes that's emotional. Sometimes the emotional
manifests as physical. Yeah. And so it's important for
us to be aware of what's going on in our body. One thing I even
do with my kids, I start them at a
young age, is learning to identify their emotions, and
talk through their emotions, express their emotions. Because if we don't learn
to identify and control our emotions, they
start controlling us without us even realizing it. It's like the default. So good. And we can walk around
with all of these feelings that manifest through our body,
that manifest through anger, that manifest through
unhealthy relationships because we've got stuff inside
that we haven't dealt with, our past issues, our past
relationships, how our past is affecting our present. There's so many things
that is just so beneficial to have someone
else's eyes on it, helping you navigate through it. Right. I think that's the key is
bringing someone else's eyes into it because
you can get so overwhelmed by your emotions,
your situation, whatever it is. And to have someone speak in,
and like you said earlier, iron sharpening iron, you
need the people in your life who can speak into what
you're going through. And, I mean, that's
something that you've helped me see so much of just-- just taking a step back,
seeing the situation, giving the advice, giving
the biblical truth. It's just we need that. Sometimes I think you can
get so used to your junk that you stop seeing it. That's just so true. And you get so used
to putting on a show. Social media has taught
us how to put on a show and put our best face forward. And sometimes, we put
so much of our best face forward that we forget what
our real face looks like, and we forget. We just get so used to our junk. Sometimes with kids,
you look at our windows, and they're full
of fingerprints, and I don't see them
anymore because I'm so used to the junk. And then when we have company
over, and I look at the window, I'm like, oh my gosh,
that's so dirty. How long has it
looked like this? Exactly! Always. And that is to me a reflection
of our soul, and our spirit, and in a lot of ways,
our emotional state. Sometimes we get so
used to our junk. We've lived with it for so long,
our spouses have lived with it so long, we've lived with
it in our family of origin that we just get so used to
it until someone's like, mm, I don't know about that. It can really be an
awesome sharpening process. So what would be--
if you had to tell-- someone said, hey, what
are two or three dashboard indicators that
could maybe speak to a lack of emotional health? You mentioned diet,
you mentioned-- Physical. I do notice that like physical-- when I'm stressed, I'm not
making good eating decisions. Yeah. It's so easy after
a crazy day just to feel like I
almost deserved this, or to almost like
rationalize in your head. Yep Or I'm off kilter here, just
go down in flames a little bit. OK. So what-- obviously,
that's not healthy. Three things-- Yeah. --your thoughts, how
healthy are your thoughts? Are you starting to go down
a cycle of negative thinking about yourself, others,
your situation, and it's starting to permeate your life? Take inventory of your thoughts. Take inventory of
your physical health like we talked about, but also
your interactions with others. Are your relationships starting
to be marked more by drama and more by problems than
they are healthy things? And then take inventory
of your behaviors. What are you doing
in your free time? And how are you
spending your time? And are you being productive the
way you want to be productive? And how is your focus? So your behaviors,
your interactions, and your thoughts, those
are good indicators as they're tipping into
the negative territory that something needs to be done. I need to stop and just make
sure that these things are staying in the positive. Phenomenal. Gosh, that's so practical. And I came across a statistic,
and we talked about it earlier on the series,
that most heart attacks happen at 9:00 AM. Hm. And specifically, the majority
of fatal heart attacks or severe heart attacks
take place at 9:00 AM. And this was brought
out in a book by a rabbi, a Jewish rabbi. And he was saying that
part of the problem is the American way of thinking
is that a morning starts-- the day starts in the
morning, midnight. And so first thing you do when
the day begins is you wake up, and you rush off to work. And he was saying that
the Jewish way of thinking is that the day
begins at sunset. And so the first thing you
do when the day starts is you rest. And you're resting
going into the day. And he was just
basically talking about how important it is to
not go from lying in your bed like this to rushing into work-- From zero to 100. --and now all of a sudden,
your arteries are like, ah, what's going on-- Totally --and almost like
there's not that-- and so obviously,
growing up in the church, we talked about
having quiet times. Yeah. And then that fell out
of vogue and whatever, that exact language, have
you had your quiet time, and whatever you
want to call it, your devotional or whatever. But something in the morning,
what part do you think that plays in preparing for
your day-- you personally-- Yeah. --between sleeping to now
I'm in Debra "Fi-lay-a" mode, where I go "slaya" mode? Fileta. That's good. Yes. Can you just-- you need
a tag line, let me know. But basically, what do-- what part do you see that
playing in your successful being emotionally healthy,
and strong, and all that? Yeah. It's funny, I feel like
I've noticed lately that when I'm feeling
the worst I need that morning time the most. And I started wondering why? I wake up desperate for it
when I'm not feeling good. I know I need Jesus. And I get into the
Word, and I'm almost like I need it more than food
when I'm not feeling good. And when I start feeling
good, I'm like, ah, maybe I'll do this
later tonight. And I'm a night owl, anyway,
so I'll get to it at night. But it just-- I think it's telling
that the times I'm most desperate and hungry for
God's Word is the time when I am feeling the emptiest. Wow. And it's like, what if
I-- what if all of us were to get into
that habit of sitting under the water,
the living water, and just quenching our thirst,
that God would fill us up in the morning because we
can't continue to pour out unless he's filling us up. So there is something to
be said of that morning time of allowing Jesus to speak
into you as you're going out to the world and speaking
into the lives of others. I mean, it's transformational. And I'm not going to
say I'm perfect at it. But it's a habit that
I'm trying so hard to build into the
rhythm of my life because I see the
desperate need. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Speak to saying
no, what part that plays in staying healthy in your
own heart, in relationships, in life, and the failure to-- I think a lot of us live under a
cloud of fearing letting people down, disappointing,
so we end up saying yes to things we should say no
to, and then resenting it. Totally. One thing I talk about a
lot in choosing marriage is that there is a difference
between selflessness and passivity. Yes. And I think a lot of
Christians especially are dying on the
altar of passivity. And they think they're
being selfless. Yeah. They're saying
yes to everything. They're not telling
people what they need. They don't have boundaries. They're keeping their
emotions to themselves because it's like I want to be
selfless in my relationships, in my marriage, to
people around me. And then at the end of the
day, they're spread too thin. Jesus doesn't call
us to passivity. He calls us to selflessness. And people who mistake those two
things I think really struggle. And so we've got to
start by identifying that there is a difference. And being selfless, you
think of others first. You learn to compromise. You start living
with the mentality of "we is greater than me." But that doesn't mean that
you're putting yourself to death in that way. You're just putting to
death your sinful nature. You're putting to death
all of those things that God has called
you not to be. And so, I think it's
important to remember that. We've got a lot of
passive, burnt out people walking around the church. Yeah, oh gosh, that's a fact. Right. And we're in a place where
we're not giving our effort and our energy to what we're
doing into our relationships because we allow that, well,
just whatever happens is fine. Right. Or it's like that second-- it's like we should be living
with ultimate effort, energy, excitement, atmosphere,
passion, but then it's like we're settling
for just that. You're fine. OK fine, that's it. [MUMBLING] And let's be honest,
Instagram doesn't help. Yeah. It's like, everyone's
doing this, and that, and the other thing. I've got to do that, too. Instead of realizing
God has called us to do a few things well. For me, that's my family, number
one, my marriage, my family, my relationship with Jesus, of
course, is atop of all that, and then the ministry
he's called me to. And then I've got to be
really picky and choosy because everything
I'm saying yes to I'm saying no to something else. So what does that
look like in my life? And how do I keep myself healthy
and do a few things well? What's interesting,
too, is the way that social media
can make us feel like we're in communities-- Yeah. --when we're not. Totally. Because that guy I
went to high school with I'm friends
with on Facebook, that's community, right? And the reality, though, is that
social media isn't very social. You really still need to have
people in your life positioned. And that's going to
transform your future. What part do you see that
playing in emotional health and strength? Oh, man. Community is where God sharpens
us and exposes our junk. He exposes it in community. Because you think you're
selfless until you're in community, until
you're rubbing up against people every day. And at first you
think, they're selfish, and then you're like, oh
wait, this could be me. Right. And you think you're selfless
until you get married, for example. And then you've got this day
in, day out, like, oh my gosh, this is me. I've got stuff I
need to deal with. I was counseling a gentleman
just a few days ago. I won't tell you his name or
any information about him. But let me just tell you this. Yeah. We have a non-disclosure
on all our junk you've heard us talk about, too. But something I have
people do sometimes to assess their community is I
have them draw this social map where the closest
relationships they have are in the first circle. He had none in his core group-- none. That's telling to me of
the society we live in. He had a ton in his third
group, the acquaintances and the people
that he feels he's connected to so many people. Loose connections, yeah. But the core group,
that didn't exist. People who really know well. Well, that's what we
talked about when we said, look, you listen to Seth Godin's
podcast, and this, and that, and the other. They listen to your
podcast, but you don't know they're garage code. Yeah, exactly. You're not going to be in the
ER when-- you know what I mean? Yeah. So listening to someone's book
and listen to their Ted talk is very different than
having a voice in your life. But our brains don't
know the difference between our tribe and people
we listen to on our podcast. You're absolutely right. So, it's incredibly
important that we have people in our life, in our
corner, flesh-and-blood people we can talk to, and get prayer
from, and hold us accountable. and all that. That's huge. That's so good. And people who are
calling us out, like, hey, I'm seeing something
that's not healthy in you-- to me, if you're in a group
of friends that have never called you out or pointed out
your junk, like I like to say, and I think we got to a, speak
into that friendship, like, hey, this is what authentic
community looks like, and this is what I need. I'm inviting you to have
that role in my life. And it's not easy. I think it's your
first book, True Love Dates, where you talk about that
study of the people in the-- they put him in a
scuba diving outfits? Yes! Talk about that because
that connects to community. Yeah, it's so telling. They took a group of people-- these sociologists
did this study where they took
a group of people and put them in scuba suits. Sociologists do weird things. Yeah. Who got paid to do that? That's why I'm in the
psychology world, but anyway. And they just wanted to see
what these people would do. You couldn't see anything
except their faces. And they observed these
people interacting. And they noticed that people
who had similar facial features had a tendency to flock
together and grouped together. There is power in similarity. If there is that much
power in similarity of physical features,
how much more power is there in this similarity
of emotional and spiritual attraction? And I always say people
who find themselves in toxic or unhealthy
relationships over and over again, you attract people
on your level of health. And you're drawn to people
on your level of health. So when I get
these Millennials-- I love Millennials. I just love them. And when I get these Millennials
coming in and saying, Debra, why am I
always attracting the jerks, what is going
on, I'm a good Christian, like what is up with
these relationships, you got to step back and
say just because you're a Christian doesn't
automatically mean that you're healthy. And how is this-- how are
these relationships speaking into your level of health? And what do we need to
do to get you to a place where your radar is on,
and you're like, mm-mm, not healthy, and you're
attracting people who are like you
spiritually, emotionally. Maybe that means you got to
take a couple steps spiritually before you start dating
because you're not there yet. Yeah, great. So who you're going to
attract when you get healthy-- Exactly. --will be a lot better than who
you're going to attract now-- It's a different pool-- Yeah. --at that point. So you're saying we
attract what we are. We attract what we are. And so for the
community piece of that, if we can get into a
community with people who have the traits we're
wanting to foster or people that value
the things we value-- Absolutely. --or same value, we'll
become like who we do like. It's going to have a
total impact on our lives, in our hearts. I mean, Scripture tells us-- Yeah. --these things are important. And they're part of
the rhythm of focusing on intentional ways. And I love that
word "intentional." Yeah. We have got to be intentional
as we move towards Jesus, as we move towards
community, as we move towards healthy souls and
healthier relationships. This stuff doesn't just
happen automatically. Yeah Well transitioning
and shifting gears, and specifically with
your book Choosing Marriage, obviously, if we want to
have the rhythms of health in our souls and we're
married, that then involves another person. Right. So what in your opinion does
getting into a healthy rhythm in a marriage look like? What are some of the
things that can be done or the obstacles to that? Yeah. It's interesting, whenever
I do marriage counseling, I usually never start
with marriage counseling. So when I get a couple,
and they come in, and they're like, Debra, we
want to do some marriage work, usually I'll say, OK, let me
do a few sessions with you by yourself and a few
sessions with you by yourself because usually that
individual health starts impacting marital health. And when you can reflect
on what you need to change, it starts changing the
dynamic of your relationships, the pattern, the flow, the
process as you get healthier. And so I think sometimes in
marriage counseling, too, our tendency is to come in
and say, here's his junk, and then for him to
say, here's her junk. I mean, we see it out loud
and clear in marriage. But then for us to have
that reflection and say, God, what do I need to work
on as I'm in this process? So we always start there. And then I always tell
people the choices that you make today,
today, right now, are paving the way for a healthy
relationship tomorrow. It's not this magical process. It's daily choices, daily
rhythms, daily discipline, daily patterns. And we either choose those
patterns or we don't. It's just like anything else. We either choose to
get healthy, we're going to choose healthy
foods, or we're not. How badly do we want this? And here's the thing. It's not just about willpower. We have the Holy Spirit. We have God on our
side helping us-- Right. --choose the proper things
that He's called us to choose. So we're not in this
battle by ourselves. Right. Yeah. And that's why I love so much
that the name of your book is called Choosing
Marriage because it really is-- it's a fight
to keep choosing, every day to choose
to honor, to choose to love and respect, and
even your subtitle Why It Has To Start With
Me Is Greater Than Me. But to get to we being
greater, like you said, there has to be the
health individually. So there has to be the
healthy me before the-- Totally. --the healthy we. Debra, in the book, you
talk about the survey you did on how much time
married couples on average spend together, talk
about that a little bit. It's very convicting. But, go ahead. So, back it up real quick,
this book is for singles, too. And I'll tell you why. You've got to understand
what you're looking for in a healthy relationship. If you want to
choose marriage, you need to understand what
that's going to look like. That's good. But this is also
for married couples, because like you
said, Jennie, choosing marriage is a daily process. And so one thing I did as
I was writing this book, I love gathering data, and so
I picked the brains of people who come to my website. So I pulled 1,000 singles
and the 1,000 married people in really hot topics like
sex, intimacy, communication, conflict, and ask some
really intimate questions, stuff you wouldn't ask
your friends at Starbucks, like how many times are
you having sex a week and different things like that. But one of the most important
things was the communication. 15 last week. [CROWD CHUCKLES] The communication-- I'm
just going to keep going, I'm just going to keep going-- the communication piece was,
singles how much time do you think married couples spend per
week in quality conversation? Singles are like,
all the time, man. When you're dating
someone, you're talking on the phone
like hours a day. No, you hang up. No, you hang up. Exactly! So they're like, seven hours. That's what singles said
married people at least talk seven hours a week. And single people also
think it's going to be 15. And single people--
yeah, exactly. They think it's going
to be 15, twice a day. Right. So what did married
people actually say? The majority of married people,
less than 30 minutes a week-- Wow. --a week of quality
conver-- we're not talking a day, a week. Think about that. Besides the upkeep stuff of-- We're not talking go get
milk, who's picking up the kids, quality conversation. If you think about
the natural drift-- the natural trajectory
of marriage is drift. There's a natural drift that
happens, a natural drift. When you go to the ocean,
and you're swimming, and you're not looking back
at where your hotel is, and you turn around, you
realize the ocean carried you feet away, miles away, that
is the natural trajectory of marriage. And we're shocked by that. But the natural trajectory
of human nature is sin! Yes. So why is it shocking? We've got to work towards that. Debra, talk about the triangle
analogy you used in the book because I think
that's really helpful. Yeah. One thing that I like
to keep in my own mind and as I'm working with
people is the triangle theory. If this is God at the top of the
triangle, and then this is you, and this is your
spouse at the bottom, the closer you move to God,
the closer they move to God, the closer you guys are
moving to each other. So there's something
important there about taking those time outs. That's why I love
your concept when we were talking about six
days on, one day off-- Yeah, right. --the importance of taking a day
at least to just reflect like-- Sabbath. --where am I? Yeah. Where am I? How healthy am I Jesus? What do I need you
to do in my life and have that quiet time to
just check in and make sure that we're moving
in the right way. One of my favorite things
you talked about with us early on when we began talking
with you was, you called us out and said, don't do your
check-ins on your date night. Yeah. And that was-- That was huge for us. --incredible. But would you explain why
that's such a bad idea? Yeah. I tell couples a lot of times
to have a time of check in. And I think it's crucial to
have a time of confession in marriage. confess and pray
for one another-- Yeah. --so that you may be healed. That's what the book
of James tells us. And there's power in
confession and prayer. So I always talk to
couples about the power of applying that to marriage. We can apply that
to friendships, too, but applying it to that
built-in accountability partner. But you don't want to mix
fun and work together. There's a time for fun, and
there's a time for work. And when you take those
conversations into your fun, they can really ruin the night. You've got to have a
little bit of both. And I think it's important
to separate those two things. Yeah. Or like we would say, how
are we doing on date nights. And I feel like because-- It was check-in language. It was check-in language. But because it was
like we're having fun, we're having dinner, I feel
like it was not the place to be well, actually-- Exactly. So I wasn't necessarily
saying maybe the things that I should have
brought up in a conversation because I didn't want to
ruin a night or whatever. And when we made that shift,
and we have just said-- we're not seeing to
that conversation that needs to happen it's
never going to happen. We're just saying, we
going to put a pin in that. Right. We'll come back to that. And it made it just so
much more life-giving. Tonight's a night for fun. It's a lot like what we said
last week that your day off should be the day that
you clean out the garage. Totally. Your Sabbath day
shouldn't be the day that you have to pay your taxes. It's like do that on the
others-- the sixth day of work. Right. We have a five-day
workweek, whether that's your Saturday, or your
Sunday, or some other day, have a day where you work, and
then let your actual day off really-- and it takes hard
work to prepare for that. Jennie was even
just saying you've got to really the
night before go, OK, what do I need to
get done so I can do it because she knows I can't enjoy
a Sabbath day if the house is a mess. You're right. So it's the night before,
let's get that done feverishly, that way-- so we work
hard so we can rest. So it's essentially that
equivalent in marriage. Yeah. You're giving yourself
permission to just connect emotionally on a fun level. There's different strings in the
world of emotional connection. There's the fun strings. There's the deep, heavy stuff. But all of these things
are different strings that connect you in a relationship. And there's a time and
place for all of them. I wonder as we wind down
if it's not important just to say whether you're
struggling in your marriage or struggling in your
own upkeep of your soul and you feel bad about
that, giving yourself permission to be human-- Totally. --to be on that journey. I've heard you mention
your husband, John, who's in the service-- Yeah. --he spent 20,000
hours-- is that right? Yes. 20,000 hours. 20,000 hours becoming a doctor. 20,000 hours of training. Yeah, OK. Exactly. So now he's a
doctor, he shows up, there's 20,000 hours in that. Right. And I've heard you say before,
to get married, how many hours of training does that take? How many hours? Zero. You don't get-- you
don't need any training. You just go to the courthouse-- You can go get a
piece of paper that says you're married
without-- and then you wonder why you're
not good at it. Yeah, exactly. And at best, we do
premarital counseling, which is a couple of hours. But how would you like it if
your surgeon was like, yeah, I got a couple hours of training. I'm good. Hello? But now much more in your
face and the capacity to wreck your life is a spouse-- Yes! --and you theirs then a
doctor who you meet one time. So, I mean, just to
think about if you feel like I'm not doing
good, well, that's just means you need to work at it. And that just means you
need to take some steps. We all need to work at it. We all do. We all are a work in progress. And the people that
scare me the most are the ones that
don't recognize they're a work in progress. My gosh, yeah. That's when I'm like, OK, we
got some real work to do here. To see that you have
a long way to go is the beginning of making
progress in that journey. It's the beginning
of a sign of health-- Yeah. --that you recognize
that this is a journey, a journey with
Jesus, a journey towards Him, a journey towards healing. It's beautiful. And one day, the
journey will be over. This is just a
small, tiny fraction until we get to heaven. Oh my gosh. Debra, you've been
a blessing to us. I know you been a blessing
to all of us today-- Thank you, guys. --at every location. [APPLAUSE] I wonder if before we close
if you wouldn't mind just saying a prayer. Oh, I'd love to. There's people in
our churches that are going through
marriage stuff and were wanting to have
those healthy souls and visit you with my blessings. I would love to. And my mind goes to those of
you who are just wanting this, but feeling empty. So I just want to say a special
prayer for you right now. If you're sitting
in the audience, and you're just feeling
like you're on E, this prayer's for you. Jesus, I just thank you that
you were the giver of life and the giver of love, God. And I thank you, God, that you
know that we can't pour out if we're empty. And I just pray,
Lord, that we wouldn't go to the things of this
world, social media, and money, and popularity, and
power to fill us up, God, that we would realize that
the ultimate life-giving water comes from You and You alone. Help us to sit under that. Help us to put ourselves
under that living water, God. And I pray, God, that
you would faithfully fill us up to overflowing so
that we can do relationships out of our overflow, God,
not out of our scarcity. We thank you God for
your faithfulness. And we trust you with our
emotional and spiritual health and the health of our souls. In Jesus' name, Amen. Amen. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. Let's hear it for Debra.
