3 Extremely Close Calls Escaping North Korea (ft. Yeonmi Park, Charles Ryu & The Mole) | JHS

I think a lot of people are wondering how you ended up in the United States right because you can't just walk out of North Korea very easily in fact now it's very it's almost impossible now you don't hear about people escaping now because The Border's been fortified by China and North Korea from what I understand yeah North Korea literally put the knife afford electricity of North Korea so the entire country became a concentrating Camp not only that they put the machine I mean with the machine guns with the guards every 10 meters and every 10 meters on top of that they bury the land of mines oh that's really extreme so the border is more fortified now I don't want to get too tied down in that how do most people escape in the past how did most people escape from the from North Korea most people are skipping 90s when the when the gray famine began so that's when the regime also Kim did an ice cream really care I mean if they don't want to stay here why would you not let them like go right so it's like okay let them go and he was fine with that but then he realized these people's not just only go China they go to South Korea they go to America they go to other countries and they are they became rated what they thought they're exposing us now right that's how North Korean Defector came out and giving the Testament to the U.S the department the White House yeah doing what you're doing right so they were like exposing the regime so now North Koreans keep condemned by the U.N about the human rights situation so now they're okay no we cannot let the defectors Escape anymore and there's a nurse cancer when they go they don't just Escape they go and they make money and send the money back to their family members nobody in North Korea Escape saying I'm gonna have a good life myself they escape because they can sacrifice themselves and make money and send it back to North Korea and their family members so then they when they send money they don't just get money to get information right and that is where like the biggest killer for the regime their lies being exposed right of course because if I if I escape from North Korea and I'm a waiter in South Korea and I'm sending back the annual salary that my family makes every month and I'm and it's only part of my income and I have a low-level job people start to go wait a minute so he works at a restaurant in South Korea and he's basically a millionaire compared to how we are we got to get out of here right that's not good and then word travels fast like how come that family bought a new ever you know has a car now or whatever right the whole thing yeah so that's really changed the time so they stop the defection and that's when So eventually they started putting more pressure on the border but when Kim Jong took over oh my God I mean how can he worsen his father but it was a lot worse yeah it's all that evil so how did you escape from the dprk I think a lot of people by the way if I don't if I say North Korea or dprk does it matter it matters it matters because the DPR kids are democratic papers and it's a joke of a name yeah yeah and that's what North Korea wants to be called oh okay well then screw them North Korea yeah another scary so I mean I don't really care about it when it comes to that I think that I don't want to respect the regime at all yeah of course yeah yeah so I crossed the Frozen River from North Korea to China and that was actually right before the wire fences went up so I got very lucky yeah yeah Charles Rue told me he basically swam through a river and they were shooting at him but they probably either didn't have enough bullets or they couldn't see him yeah and so he made it out as well now it seems impossible no and also when you go to China Chinese also border is a very very important people coming over maybe we gave them some food and then they're gonna go back like usually they did they go to China when North Koreans say skateboard from North Korea we are not like a Syrian or like Mexican refugees there's a democracy somewhere that if you want to go where the freedom is right we're like we're starving so we just want to go somewhere they give us food and if we get food we want to go back to our homeland so a lot of noise because we did and go to China begged food and come home and feed their family members and their friends and China had no problem with it but then they also saw that how North Korean women were going after and then started condemning to human trafficking that they face so China also North could complained to them this is our national security issue if you let nurses go out it hurts us so can you catch themselves back that's how yeah so China wants a buffer State between South Korea and the United States presence in South Korea and North Korea is that buffer State and also I think there's an tell me if you agree with this there's an element of the Chinese Communist Party saying hey you think we're terrible but at least we're not North Korea look how bad it is over there and as long as that regime exists they can sort of say like we're the only ones who can control them but the other thing they are using our use of China sure yeah like Kim Jong cannot exist without seeing in Pink So when they when the US want to discuss about North Korea's threat they have to go back to Chinese so that's why they are using as a leverage diplomatically well leverage that is it's so sociopathic to me that there are politicians going we're just going to let all these people suffer because it keeps this guy in Power which keeps us from having to worry about other issues which is so crazy to me that that even is it just sort of shows you like how how much [ __ ] we tell ourselves about caring about the the Integrity of people and like human rights I mean it's just pure nonsense it's laughable yeah this is a joke it's pure not like we can see the concentration camps we know that there are people in there that are miserable we have countless accounts of this and it's like oh well we'll we'll talk about it again maybe later yeah I mean Kim Jong-un this year is that like 11 million of his population are severely managed he's not even bothered to lie at this point he used to lie like oh look at us we are happy strong country like this year it's like yeah they are starving so what wow exactly yeah so what no accountability at all anymore yeah not that there ever you don't even pretend right now yeah no pretense you don't have to pretend anymore he said what can you do we got the nukes we have the power so what can you do my God how did you get the idea to escape was it just you were hungry right I was hungry and then if you see North Korea at night from the satellite picture it's like the darkest place in the world it got no electricity so in the Border Town I was looking at Chinese side and they had the lights coming out and they had a high road like ways where cars going by so we also had the rumors in North Korea saying that China dogs eat rice like so give me some promised us that I'm gonna make sure that my people are gonna eat white rice with like the meats too and meats too okay yeah so all North Korea wanted to all their life and die for the Revolution was eat the white rice and the miss too it wasn't like if you want to get private Jazz the bar is pretty low and you can in like some Southern East Asia they can feed all these people chicken and like rice that's like nothing and that's what we promised and that's the Communist can I achieve that dream at all they're so poor so the in North Korea so we we heard that like dogs eat white rice in China and I thought like the most bizarre thing I've ever heard how on Earth there's a place the dog eats rice right right like how can that be how can that be it's like almost like somebody telling all their aliens came and took you and then they you know they come visit every night like that kind of most absurd thing you hear right like why would you feed a dog rice it just doesn't compute yeah and then dogs eat people that's how they survive yeah that that uh and then people try and steal it from them to get there as you mentioned that's oh my gosh so you're hungry and you just say hey look if they've got electricity in cars they probably have food right that's what I thought I guess maybe there's a football that is like I was watching this documentary at about like 9 11. there were people who were jumping out of that building exactly that situation I don't know if I jump out there is a life for me but what can you do to burn his burning and burning and you have no way out so you gotta jump and see what happens that's how North Koreans do it that's how you felt just of course I might die doing this but I'm definitely gonna die hungry here so yeah I mean there's no chance of me surviving in that country if I didn't Escape so why don't I just jump and see what happens wow and so how did you hatch the plan I my older sister I was 13 and I had my sister was 16 in 2007 she escaped first few days before me and she left me a note saying go find this lady she's gonna help you so I went to her with my mom and then she said like yeah I can help you to go to China but I okay so desperate it was no point of me even asking on why are you helping me right and also if you already don't trust anyone this is a desperate sort of Hail Mary move anyways yeah so why why bother getting the details yeah it doesn't matter even she cares to me I'm dead anyway like it just didn't it didn't occur to me I had to ask why are you helping me so because you're so desperate like whatever thing Gonna Get You Out you you want to get out wow okay and you you end up being trafficked and sold in China and the whole story is in the book by the way which we'll Link in the show notes I'm not gonna make you go through it again because you do talk about it a lot in uh other shows as well but this situation is by all accounts horrifying and harrowing and and you you end up having to sell your own mother for food it's just like the sneak preview is it's some of the most terrible things that you can imagine happening and it happens over and over and over and the people that you meet are all universally exploiting you and and everyone who they come into contact with it's like this is like the underbelly of sort of Chinese Mafia human trafficking right so how do you eventually get away from that situation so when North Korean go to China because of the one child policy right now there are 40 million men cannot find women especially in the rural areas and their numbers keep going up so women being sold into four different places one is human trafficking is very useful to a man in the village who have a disability or crazy or whatever it is so sometimes they buy one girl and rotate entire town or what their entire Brothers in that family oh wow so you're basically a sex slave at that point not like a regular wife no no no you're not a wife they watch you when you go to bathroom away so that's one second place we are the prostitution they put you you know these brothers get raped like 20 times a day and then remix refuse so they give you drugs so they make you become drug addict so women just do it because they want a drug so you have get raped 20 30 times a day in this like brothers third is where you go to organ harvesting now China is the biggest export of organs yeah I did a whole show about this yeah so they also use North Koreans just kill them and take the organs out the last place in the chat room where these Brokers put in a setting another facility with the locked door and bring these girls in from the camp and the customers such South Koreans and then show their bad sex cam so among the four why would you choose I would I mean like all jokes aside I would obviously choose the cam girl option because at least I'm not getting touched by it actually get raped by right nobody comes to your room right you just show them your body so I chose that yeah I initially I was sold by a man I was raped and then at the end of the journey I was finally able to go to chat room there I heard about South Korea and I heard that there is a way out of China but you already knew South Korea existed right but not like the humming book like a southern of North Korea they are fighting the language so much so Johnson is Korea like it's the South Korea they call North Korea like uh like just like a north of Korea okay South Korea but their name is dejan minguk and we call them like south of North Korea really so so North Korea just calls South Korea Southern North Korea yeah that's ridiculous and North Korea South Africa like Northern South Korea oh gosh so the language difference was huge and then I did not know that I was a North Korean they said I did in North Korea told me yeah yeah so Johnson is what we knew of so South Korea did not have the name Jordan at all he has like that Mingo was like what the heck is I did not that was like our southern part of North Korea was and then I was talking to these people and they said I'm from the Hamming was like what is that Mingo and then we had a Defector friend who was working in the chat too and she said I know the missionaries and then if you go study Bible with them and then they're gonna help us to escape to South Korea so that's I like that was by then I was 15 years old 15 yeah so I was there in three two years in China two years two years of unspeakable sort of treatment and then and then bible stuff and this is your introduction to sex right you said before you had no idea the concept of sex until your mother was sexually assaulted essentially right in front of you and then that became your daily existence for those few years so you're doing this Bible study with the missionaries and then how do they prepare you to escape like what's their plan pray and fasting pray in fact did you tell them you already spent your life fasting and it didn't help yeah a lot of fasting and praying and memorizing the Bible verses so there's no practical training for like here's how you're going to escape no they don't give you a physical train they don't give you gear they don't give you the right clothing it's your you need a miracle to do it which is because you are gonna go across the Gobi desert into Mongolia from China in the minus four degrees you're gonna cross the Gobi desert on foot in the minus 40 degrees in negative 40 degrees and just hope that you end up in Mongolia yeah and then discovered by human beings in the middle of the coffee desert what so what kind of plan is that so do your survival rate is very very low like 99 and you're not gonna make it oh my gosh and you're gonna get caught by soldiers so you need a miracle that's why they make you pray and truly like waiting for God to sign to go this is uh and I know you help people escape now and I assume you have a better slightly oh we don't use it we use cars and transport them yeah yeah yeah yeah but we didn't have money these people we have to use money to transport them bribe them but going to Mongolia you don't need a broker they just give you a compass why the new wall follow the north you know like the West part and then cross eight wire fences and hopefully that's gonna be Mongolia or something that is just mind-blowing so you're you're crossing the Gobi desert how long does it take it only took one day one day because um we chose the coldest time of the year so the guards would think like who's gonna be crazy enough to because the other times the security is so tight I mean there are guards in China preventing nobody can escape they're gonna shoot you so if you choose a call this time then even though it's very high secure the tight Boulder that's people think oh nobody's crazy enough to cross right yeah they're watching movies and smoking it's not freezing they don't want to go outside even themselves so we chose that time and then uh we crossed one day but the hardest thing in the desert is that you don't know if you're going straight or backwards on the side or like yeah Circle because nothing tells you indicates you you're going forward you just have a compass and you're like I hope this thing works this is a vat it's like in the middle of the ocean right nothing tells you where you're going there's no landmarks on the horizon nothing so that was like where I shocked like I'm not sure if I'm just going Circle and start right now we do the rumors where does some defectors do that go days and sell coolings the same thing again and then come back to the same spot so when we go like okay let's leave a stuff here so when we come back maybe we came back here that's how we went moved along leaving some stuff and knowing we've been here and thankfully we only got discovered next day by Mongolian soldiers so the Mongolian soldiers are used to seeing North Koreans crawling crossing the border over these wire fences so then is it a warm welcome or is it kind of like you just get arrested they use a gun like put your hands up right if you cross the border illegally yeah so it doesn't matter your child or not and then they told us they're going to send us to China back and then send to North Korea which they're not really going to do they have done that they have done that because it's so inconvenient for them to go back to base called the top people getting started screen so much work for them so if if they can hide I mean usually South Chinese soldiers don't even volatile resides to shoot them all and the animals come at you they just shoot you yeah oh my God in the borders they shoot to kill order they don't bother to arrest you you gotta shoot them if you see any foreign object there and so they just don't want to be about too much work for them too much paperwork they have to fill out when we call them how we caught them right so this is should you and then like animals gonna do the job for them that's awful okay so obviously that didn't happen to you you got uh taken in by Mongolian uh military border yeah the Border cars and then they said they were going to send us back so we are gonna kill ourselves right your plan was to kill yourself oh really I'm in North Koreans it's like the Jewish people when there's a holocaust right we all ready to die then and we get caught and then they eventually threaded and helped us to go to South Korea the thing that I don't understand and that I don't I can't quite wrap my mind around is they've seen refugees come across the border over and over it's not like this is the first time they've seen it I don't know why they can't have a plan for this or they're saying oh we're going to send you back I mean they must know that what they're doing is heartless and cruel and they just don't care yeah I mean for them they think it's fun it's so fun first begging for their life and so that's better we do the thing human nature is horrible when humans are not being educated and civilized you can become barbarians and this is the thing about human nature that you know people not the special people became the guards or in the concession Camp you're not Germany normal people did that and I think that's why we need to aware of our nature that is kids were just never knew what compassion was I guess so they just it was really fun for them and we didn't get cared about one of my friends mom's friends she swallowed the peers and then they after had to take her to hospital and then she never came back fully after that so she tried because she thought they were going to send her back so yeah because that's what they said right so a lot of Pure Evil yeah what separates you someone who escaped North Korea versus somebody who decides to stay what do you think the difference is because they were not as desperate as me for me was if I didn't Escape I would not even made a few more days there because I just didn't have food so you weren't thinking like Freedom you're just thinking rice just food yeah anything yeah wow I mean you know getting starved is worse than being raped the biggest the worst torture is being starved because if you don't need you die and before you die from starvation you're hallucinate you you lose your mind that's how most undignified way of dying from starvation that's why cannibalism happening in North Korea because cannibalism yeah so so mothers eat their children because they thought their children were dogs because they go crazy when you don't eat and then they wake up and then like what happened to my child it's the real stories for me to do but um I was in Tarragona with Alejandro after I went to North Korea and Mr James to do a debrief and in a point in the meeting Alejandro he wanted to show me that so I could tell Mr James that he took security really seriously so he bought this uh bark detector is it called in English yeah like a bug detector so Alejandro has this device that can detect so so you're you go to Alejandro's house or or bar yeah to meet with him after going to North Korea and Alejandro wanted to say hey man you know we're doing some 007 [ __ ] right here I've got this bug detector but meanwhile you have cameras hidden on your in your stuff you've got your audio recording devices so you must have been pretty unexcited I would say or excited in the wrong way to see his bug detector yeah well we've been I think at that point we have been talking together like an hour and a half and I had the computer back with a camera and a microphone no two microphone and one camera and I had a camera on myself and one or two microphone as well um and he just certainly stands up and say hey I gotta show you something and he just walk around me and I just looked over my shoulder and see and the minute he came out I couldn't see this frequency thing on the screen going up and down I was like okay this is it and I was like you know just relax a few seconds you must have been ready to sort of like either throw up or run out of the room or something yeah but but then I was like quite comfortable because he didn't want it to to test me out he just wanted to show me that he was bragging about his new toy but then when he came near me is of course starting to react and luckily I have a small bag on the table with a car key in it was like an electric car key who could send signals to the car and start the car from a mile away or something and but if you look at the recordings I put in my arms like like I do here because then he couldn't um you know get directly you put your arm across your body so he couldn't get close to the microphone yeah he was blocked by it and you're holding out your car key try it on this yeah that was good thinking man I gotta hand it to you and he just bought and and when he sat down and we just talked like 20 minutes more something and and I said to him well it's a good thing but we need to buy a bigger one a better one I told him because he he we talked about he couldn't buy one for two thousand dollar or something I don't remember and this was the cheap one I said we need to back the good ones so we can test out for the next time and please do it every time before we come yeah and then it was good thinking hey please make sure we're in a secure environment as you walk out with your two microphones and your camera yeah this is insane but when I came out I put my earphones in and and connect it to my phone and I had to walk 300 meters down to through the car and I just turn on Metallica hardwired to self-destruct and just like work and then I when I came in the car I called the um I had a camera specialist with me who has put up the things and I arranged with him when I'm finished I call you and I pick you up at that spot and I drove down and he came in and I said well listen he just took this he took out the bug detector and gave me a bug sweep like yeah what am I gonna do and he was like what and he didn't find it so no and I think I was driving like 10 minutes and that was the road they were right and I just put the car in and when I pulled over yeah I did not start to you know be sweaty and you know the things does to work up and I just need to have up the microphone and the camera of my body and a new shirt on and I was like whoa close call close call but then 18 hours later I went home I came to Copenhagen again and I go to an amusement park with my family you know Tivoli and Copenhagen the big amusement park in the center um I went in there having ice cream and hot dogs and roller coaster rides as my children and 18 hours before I was could practically been in a really big mess but I think when I was away from the things I could digest the things and be ready to next part and and every time if I wanted to stop it was just the handbrake up and stuff it would the production would have stopped but of course I get interested because at that point I was aware of this is something that is important to show to the world also how North Korean still undergoes the sanctions and stuff and how they could deal with people because as I said to many people I was already the one who loved North Korea and I brought Mr James who wanted to spend a lot of money buying weapons and selling and stuff but out in the real world there's also I would like who lost North Korea and Mr James is also existing so we need to stop those things right so so you're saying there I might be a fake Korean friends Association facilitator of arms deals and and Mr James might be a fake arms dealer but somewhere out there there's a real arms dealer and a real yeah KFA stooge who's going to facilitate and running North Korean sanctions uh or sanctions on North Korea and make sure and you're saying we did this to show how easy this was because there are people out there who are selling fuel illegally to North Korea who are possibly and probably getting weapons out of North Korea and selling them into war zones and and that's kind of what I want to discuss here because you know you you took your trip to North Korea and you're meeting with these arms dealers tell me about the first time you know you're going into this basement restaurant which is probably not exactly what you had hoped your trip would have started like when we we had a few days where we had a lot of talking and I said well listen Mr teams are here because Alejandro said yeah he could buy or look at those things and meet the right people and then it flipped over by night and they said well we're going to meet tomorrow in a special place and well it was not showcase city of Pyongyang it was out in Islam um but down in this basement was a beautiful restaurant and girls ready for karaoke things but you know when we walked in it was a bit dark and cloudy on the walls and I was really really um starting to fear that this could be the end of this story yeah yes you're walking into like the basement of a building and you're thinking to meet arms dealers in North Korea you probably weren't thinking hey they're gonna bust out the karaoke we're gonna have some great food you were probably I assume you thought you were going to take a bullet in the back of your head at some point yeah because the door I was met with was uh you know it was black in leather and it was so thick and I was like am I going down and people outside the street was really looking scary at me and James because we were Western people and then the North Korean went yeah I'd go down here and went behind us and I was like okay in a second I'm gonna hear this and I was like the door opened I was looking wow and karaoke was ready and yeah well please sit down um in a minute the president of our weapon Factory in our Factory we will look at join you and a special businessman from Malaysia who came to who came to a Pyongyang to meet up with us and I actually think he was an intelligence officer but never mind but he's from Malaysia was he North Korea most North Korean but living in Malaysia ah okay yeah that was a tote of what they told us and he was speaking very very good English um so and you know they start questioning Mr James and then at one point they asked him about the company name and we have never fallen our minds that we could get that far and he just said Targa and I was Target yeah so you never thought hey we should have a company ready to go like they might ask us about this [ __ ] because we but it's a fail yeah we literally didn't expect it to go that far um but you know doing business is like this you don't have a web page uh saying hey we're Target we that's true we sell weapons so they were like oh okay if you call it that well it's darker it is but then and then they start questioning gem a lot and Mr James and I was like I need to remember what he's telling them you know because um if you missed something I could you know give him a fill it in yeah exactly but he was and at that point Google could really see that he was has been used to do criminal things and talk with people he's in the zone right he's in his element yeah and he was like bragging and having a beer and having you know ginseng snaps and all those kind of things and we just well let's just do an agreement of working together and you know whoa whoa yeah yeah and now let us have some karaoke so and then I was standing up singing Celine Dion My Heart Will Go On and I can't sing and I didn't choose the song I was just asked to do it and you know it was just fun and it was a great break actually and then suddenly I saw Mr King with my camera and I was like oh [ __ ] he's gonna check it out now and he did but he gave it to his colleague and said you have to film Jim and Oregan the people here say oh I can bring it home to the people of Mr team so they can see we had a great time in Northern I was like great now they really trust me and and they took it many times for me filming me and yeah practically filming themselves doing crimes um at well it's insane but they trusted me that much that well it has come as a shock for them and and I think today I must be the most hated person in North Korea when I was 14 I get my first opportunity to escape North Korea and go to China to my father because my father wanted to see me so my brother buys a broker uh in North Korea and then the broker buys the the uh guard can we pause I just want to make sure I understand because this is so crazy yeah you're describing right now I just want to make sure that we're really understanding this journey yeah so 13 to 14 you're with your father's other family yes okay so and the plan is for your father to get you to China yeah plan is to get me to China because the letter that your aunt sent him right yeah but but I mean like that's why my stepbrother came in and he saved me from my aunt's house and he took care of me right but my father wants to see me now uh when I was 14. so whose idea was it to escape my father's idea okay right at the first time I didn't know anything about you I mean I knew first time yeah first time so you've been you I all right come on come on let me let me let me tell him we are totally enjoying your story we just want to make sure we're understanding because this is so wild so I just want to make it clear so you're 14 the plan is now in motion yeah so now now I was so I went to China right so my my stepbrother buys broker and then my stepbrother uh then the broker buys uh this is security guard and then like okay what time you know during what day what time you know like small kids gonna go to China and he's gonna come back with money you know so don't shoot him and then I went to shop I went to Reaper pretending I'm taking a shower you know you went to the river yeah to pretend like you're just going for it yeah yeah so it's going first this is the River on the border yeah is this the yellow yeah it's the Yellow River okay so you're far but you have to take a train together yeah I had to take a train for like two days is that hard to take a train no I mean like my brother bought like you know tickets and everything okay you know so you guys can move somewhat freely yeah to the borders yes the summer time because I would imagine even in the winter like I'm just going for a swim yeah what are you talking about it's 20 below yeah it was uh 2008 June 2008 June 2008 you go down to the river doesn't it yeah going down going down the river you know I'm leaning I'm like [Laughter] um I'm just gonna swim over here you know and I was taking a bath you know was this the plan it was the plan they told you to do this yeah are you alone yeah I was alone yeah how did you know where to go because like because like uh the broker told me like a couple of days like in advance like okay so close it that way he gave you directions yeah and then yeah and then I cross the river and then like okay so some guy with a hat white hat and a blue shirt and the jeans and like what kind of shoes that's your father go find him so your Dad was supposed to meet you yeah so my dad was in the other side of the China with the taxi cab right so as soon as I crossed the river I get in the taxi cab but still that's impressive because there's a huge amount of land yeah yeah so once you're on the other side of the river you're in China yeah I'm in China and you see that you see your dad yeah I saw my dad and I got into the taxi cab and we drove straight Hotel I slept one night and then the next day we took like 12 hours bus to a little bit inside of China Charles can we can we just ask you like the first night yeah you're in the hotel yeah you're in China yeah you've never been outside I've never been outside what was that like and to be honest I'm just lying down in a hotel hotel room no I didn't feel like where am I but were you like what the heck what the hell Dad yeah this is some [ __ ] like I've been stuck in this hell hole for a decade and a half but you know like as a child you know like you never met your father right but you don't feel like that's your father you know you're a stranger you know like it was kind of awkward but like he was really good to me he was nice yeah he was really really nice you know he's trying to like get me anything and first time in a farmer's market in China right I said banana and um I was like oh yeah I've seen you know one of those in like the cartoons in North Korea yeah I picked it up I bite it off I just tried it with a pill on right and my my dad's just laughing his ass off like you shouldn't supposed to eat like that should peel it off and I was like I was tasting it it's so bitter yeah it's not good with the people why is people eating bananas I don't understand you know but yeah that was like first like like a like a stupid thing that ever I could just see you be like oh man oh man these things are overrated it looks so much better in the cartoon yeah wait so your your dad the next day yeah you guys go out yeah so so the next day we arrived at my father's place right and then near the border no it's it's far yeah it's kind of far okay from border 12 hours away so I can show you later too okay um I got to my dad's place and then like I feel like I was like a child again you know because a lot of times like I had to grow up a lot faster than any other kids because of I had to you know I had to be the man you know like I have to be like I had to grow up to nurse my mom and live on my own live industry for a while so you were homeless for a while I was homeless because like when I was living with my aunt my aunts and my uncle they fought like a lot every single night well she sounds like a horrible person yeah she blackmailed your dad yeah trying to kill you so yeah no kidding that's she didn't get along with her husband either so uh yeah so I got so the the argument that ended me kicking out like kicked out you know from the house uh this is back in Korea you you did leave oh well yeah there's like more to the story okay that's like I you know like half the year I was sleeping on a street six months yes you were homeless yeah in North Korea so yeah so I mean let's go back to go back to China back you're back but you've already been through all this stuff yeah I've already been through all this stuff so was it a relief then to be in China yeah it was just so much relief because I feel like I can have like my future right I can have my dream you know and my dream promised the hope you know and hope promised tomorrow what was your dream at that point just living my life normal you know to have a normal life yeah have a normal life anywhere anywhere but North Korea just not North Korea you know because like I have or I'm like I'm going to like you know PC bar and it's like a people like an arcade you know I'm going to the PC bar yeah I go there you know I play computer you know and I I play like arcade you know Street Fighter king of fighter you know and all those kind of stuff that all the kids do you know playing arcade and meeting making friends you know I'm pretty like uh like a social butterfly even though I don't speak any Chinese you know I'm like hey I'm from South Korea you know you were friendly you said South Korea yeah because I had to lie you know because if I told him I'm from North Korea ah I'm gonna I'm gonna get into this what happens if somebody finds out you're from North Korea I'll get into it so I was living the dream in China right I was like I was so happy you know and uh like because like I don't have to you know back for a place to sleep overnight where I don't have to beg for a food from the strangers on the street right I was living my life and freedom for a moment but unfortunately Chinese government didn't recognize North Koreans as refugees and they Capture Me and they've deported me back so are the North Korean assault uh the Chinese citizen reported me to the government somebody in your neighborhood yeah somebody in my neighborhood how did they find out because like they've been keeping eye on like new like Rivals right and then they see a kiss small kid dark you know because like skinny Chinese kids are fat you know they're super like pale because they've been eating really well but I'm really dark short and like they could tell by my eyes you know like actually trying to steal something you know it's alert you know because like Chinese kids like they don't do that you know you stood out yeah I stood out like pretty like wow so the neighbor other people in the neighborhood yeah picked up on that yeah they picked that one and they called them yeah call the police oh my God yeah and then nine months later in 2009 January police came to her house with uh with a gun like a with a pistol there's like uh like I think like eight or nine of them and then like when I saw when I looked down there's like a black horse just like surrounded like the apartment that was scary like these guys you know this barges into a room and like having a gun in their hand and like looking on the rooms and then they handcuffed me and then they took me to the jail how old were you Alice I was 15. was your dad there my dad was there but he couldn't do anything because he he has no way of proving that I'm his son oh man yeah and you know I remember the day I lost all hope you know I was in the back of a Chinese police truck changed like a couple of other North Koreans you know um and it's in Chinese jail I'm in the Chinese jail right now with like a couple of with all the North Koreans and like the living situations you know like the people that how they fed us it's like they've fed us with like the food from leftovers in our food like leftover food from the from the guards and then like finally it's a deporting day so I was I I was in the Chinese year for like two weeks and then it's the it's the day that finally we're getting we're getting deported to North Korea and you know like we turn the corner and I could see the North Korean Border in the distance and I was so scared and afraid that I might be in big trouble you know as soon as I step back into North Korea and I knew that you know I'm gonna be in big trouble and then the truck wrote a stop at the border and the guards were screaming at me to get off the truck like they were just they're like treating us like an animal and then yeah so they I was I got onto another another like a Jeep with a couple of other North Koreans and then we we got transported yeah transported to like other like uh interrogation first interrogation porn right and then yeah I got the first interrogation part because like there was so many people so many nutrient defectors that are in the jail they have no place to put us in right so I had to stand right in front of the sale right in 2000 2009 January like you have to know like if you get caught in China like if you get caught near by the border it's fine and like oh they're like so after interrogation right or if you're trying to go to China for just looking for the food in the Border that's fine you know like oh yeah just go to the labor camp labor camp for four years and you're fine I wouldn't I wouldn't throw that in the fine column uh four years of labor camp I mean yeah that's like the punishment right so so I mean I mean they don't like kill you or they don't kill you okay but like just like a basically a death sentence you know because it's really hard to survive in Olympia for four years um but if you get caught deeper inside of China which is Mongolia you know which is like around like really south of China that's a reflect because which means you're moving towards somewhere which is going to South Korea right so it's worse it's worse now you were 12 hours away from the border but I was still you were still with it yeah within like the like safe range on a safe region and then I was standing right in front of the cell and this one lady she bites off her vein and she plead to death she bit her yeah yeah had bitter wrist wide open because she didn't wanna because like she got caught in Mongolia and the government knows that like she's trying to defect to like South Korea so they wouldn't let her go and then like and then the office got cleared out so in the jail there is no room in the jail so they couldn't press in the jail so they put me in a separate office this is within the Detention Center so this is uh this is a boy boo boibu is stands for secret place in North Korea Oh see it's like a secret police you're looking uh so do you even know where that was yeah it's it's a right across the border yeah but it's near the border there's like a special yeah special place yeah interrogation part and then I'm sitting I'm sitting in the office and across the room I hear scream you know like guys like oh my God my legs are broken oh please forgive me my legs are broken my ribs are broken I'm bleeding to that you know I'm like hearing all the screams you know and I'm like terrified like that's gonna be me like they're gonna they're gonna kill me but luckily I was only 15. so um I didn't get bitten like that bad just like slapped me you know like kick me you know stomach for a couple of times and what is what are they trying to do are they trying to punish you no are they trying to get information from you so they're trying to get informations from what sort of stuff do they want to know they ask about everything literally everything what did you do in China China what did you eat what did you feel what did you see when did you feel yeah what did you feel like okay so you've seen like a couple of social medias you know how did you feel about that you know like you've seen like people talking about Kim Jong-il how do you feel about that like you've seen a lot of like cars you've seen a lot of like a buildings a lot of tall buildings how how do you feel about that what are they trying to to suss out in those questions like I learned that Kim Jong-un is bad that's the things that they want to get because if you if you say that then they're gonna punish you more they're gonna kill us yeah if you say that they're gonna there's no way out if if you say that but I have to say like I know what to say you know like I know like because of the things that I've seen in China but I couldn't say you knew how to lie yeah I know like I know how to like so what do you say like I saw capitalism and how it ruins people no I mean I mean oh yeah so like the bad boys too was not as good as bad boys one I've learned that Will Smith is awesome but not as awesome he's the badass you know he should be in bed yeah so I mean I was a child right so he they didn't like really ask me that questions like a lot like multiple times they're just like let's just get it over with they were trying to get it over with yeah and you're 15 right I was 15 I was like oh yeah I was just living with my dad oh I was just I don't know I don't know like like I don't know I don't know like I don't know and they're like what do you mean you don't know and let's get up and punch me in the face for a couple of times um and then like 20 days I was in there you know and I know that and then I go there for three weeks yeah they're questioning you for three weeks three weeks so uh right after 20 days I got transported to um to um free educational detention center now are they actually teaching you things there are they just punishing you there they are brainwashing us right so what you do is you work there as long as they want you to work there right and then at night they'll Force us to recite the rules of the camp right so at age of 15 I was in a Detention Center working like 18 hours I don't know 12 16 18 like 50 150 kernels corn a day for nine months you know and you know I thought they're gonna release me pretty soon because like I was only 15 you know and and that's what they told me too you know and I was told that I'll be on I'll be there for only a couple of weeks because I was so young right I was only 15. I worked really hard for the couple of like weeks right because I didn't want it to get bitten again yeah right and months passed and I was now released and that Detention Center I was only allowed 850 kernels of corn a day right and I started to lose weight and I could see my rib cage and I had to do like whatever I have to do to survive and one morning we're Marching In A rows that I worked side and and on the side I saw a dry vomit dry vomit dry vomit on the road somebody like I don't know somebody's sick or somebody drunk so I threw up and then I saw a dry rice and I was so hungry that I got on my hands and knees and began pictures after the dry vomit and so you picked the rice out of the driver yeah I hit it oh wow it was like it was like um like a sand a dirt you know and I didn't stop it in the rice One Minute Rice until the beating from the guards were too unbearable and at night the guards were storing storming their cells and forced us to recite the rules of the camp and if you misquoted even one rule like they were like forced to stand all night reciting the rules until work began next morning oh my God oh my God what what are the rules of the camp like I know I would never talk about life outside of North Korea I'll never talk about like bad things about Kim Jong you know what I see how I feel I will never talk about like anything that I saw in China you know I will just live my life like a like a like a bug you know these are the rules of the camp yeah you have to you have to know these rules you have to memorize those rules how many are there there's like a I can't remember there's like 40. so it's a list of 40 sort of principles right principles like there's a what like that there's like a wall a poster on the wall a phone to wall and uh like we sit in a rose and then we face those like the posts and then we recite there's like uh like a like it's like oh like I'll never do this I'll never do that I'll never do this you know I'll never talk about life outside of North Korea I'll be a good citizen I'll never Escape you know is this what they mean by re-education yeah re-education they're basically trained trying to train yeah trying to train us and trying to let us trying to like work us off you know like trying to like like let us work right right and what's going through your mind while you're reciting those principles I was starving you were just trying again trying to survive yeah trying to survive was there any part of you that thought maybe I'll maybe I'll actually follow these principles or in your mind you're like this is [ __ ] this is [ __ ] you knew it was [ __ ] even though you were hungry I was so angry I was like hangry you know like okay like a new level of angry yeah it's like I'm gonna get the hell out of get the hell out of here and I'm gonna skip again I'm gonna Escape until I'll die trying again whoa in the camp you thought in the camp right because like we're working every single day for nine months no rest from 7am to whenever they say stop it could be like 1am it could be 12 a.m it could be 11 p.m like no matter what right eating 50 pieces of Kernel per meal right so they have a job for counting those coins right and for nine months nothing else they have a job yeah somebody's job countless coins that just pissed you off yeah it's like the whole thing and then the guards right we are working in a field whatever it is you are building a concrete you know we're uh building a building you know we're farming we're constructing we're uh on a on a forest cutting down the tree they tell us every day you escape again right we don't care but don't get caught don't get caught don't get caught if you get caught you're gonna die this is what happens if you get caught we can't stop you it can't prevent you from escaping it but we can do these things to you once you get caught right and I'm listening that every day you know and like and like the main principle is like if you escape if you get caught you know you're dead basically you're dead so I don't have that thought you know that's what they're trying to tell us that's part of the re-education yeah that's part of but in your mind somehow that got translated as I'm gonna do it anyway because I'm gonna do it anyway because like because this place is terrible yeah I mean but in other people go ahead I wanna yeah I'm just trying to understand yeah where your mind is at that point like that's like basically everyone's mind anybody in the camp felt that yeah everybody felt in that way because like because like there was like one another like weak guy you know I was like I was the youngest in the like detention center right and there is like another like week you know like there's always like a head and there's a tail right and I was below tail but the tail always telling me like you know I'm gonna get out of here and I'm gonna do it okay I'm gonna do it okay I'm gonna do it again and then a lot of people actually feel that way too and then nine months later I was finally released from the labor camp from the Detention Center because I have lost so much weight that I was worthless worker you know I couldn't even lift my arm or even stand up you know I have like I was like a bones and skins so there was no point there's no point of keeping me right for like one one day like this um the head of the Detention Center comes out and like counting our heads right how many like and then he's like screaming yelling at these kids like this Gorge right what the heck are you guys doing send them home we don't need them you know like we don't need them to work for me you know like why aren't you doing your job you send those guys home you know you send those guys to like whatever they belongs you know and then next day two police officer shows up and then they took me away

Channel: The Jordan Harbinger Show

Views: 10,735

Keywords: podcast, interview, best podcast, top rated podcast, lifelong learning, the jordan harbinger show, jordan harbinger, soft skills, social science, social influence, social psychology, personal development, self development, podcast full episode, podcast clip, north korea, kim jong un, kim jong il, yeonmi park, defector, defector story, escaping north korea, the mole, spy

Id: d4IRWiqRHXE

Length: 55min 32sec (3332 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 02 2023