2022 National Conference: Michael Reeves and Q&A Session

we're back at lian's 2022 National Conference in Orlando I'm Nathan W Bingham and I want to thank you for joining us live our next speaker is Dr Michael Reeves who'll be teaching on the authority of scripture and the ways that the Bible guides Us in addressing the ethical issues we face today cross now to ligers president and CEO Chris Larsson as he introduces Dr Reeves please be seated so glad you're able to to join us to be able to to hear from our presenter this afternoon uh he has become a dear friend uh for many of us at uh the ministry even though he lives across the pond uh but we are thankful to have Dr Michael Reeves uh joining us again and uh to be able to to have uh someone of his insight and giftedness uh to be able to to encourage us and equip us with God's word is a real treat um he is a a busy uh author um just came out with a new book called gospel people would encourage you to check that out in the bookstore uh we've had him on campus uh recording teaching series for us so we have the Reformation truths um uh teaching series and have just loved our partnership with Dr Reeves and so encouraged by his work where he serves at Union School of Theology there in Bridgend Wales uh they also have uh an Enterprise in Oxford England as well and he serves there as the president but also professor of theology there at the Union School of Theology he is a director within the European theologians Network and uh very keen to see Reformation grow again on the continent and trying to to come alongside of churches and equip pastors train pastors uh Union has these uh different types of uh localized teaching that they're able to do with uh pastors even here in the states and so would encourage you to learn a little bit more about Union and uh what they're able to do with some of their learning communities uh because it's really is uh one of the ways that the church can meet the need um I think going to a residential Seminary program is the right choice for a lot of uh men who are training for gospel Ministry but because of the need that is out there churches have to continue to think through how do we train people up within our church and and be able to send them out and to continue to do church planting and missionary work and I think Union can be a great servant to the church in this regard and so uh we are thankful to have uh Dr Reeves with this Vision to be able to join with with us and so join me in welcoming Dr Michael Reeves ah friends it is so good to be back with you I meant to be with you the last two years and couldn't so the last time I was here was 2019 and it's been a strange time since I saw you last we've all changed the Lord hasn't hasn't he been good and kind now friends today the ethical challenges that we face can seem so complicated new challenges facing us how can we know what to think how can we we know how to think these things through and give a right answer to the ethical challenges of our day well would you turn with me to Mark chapter 7 where we see Jesus interact with the Pharisees over a clearly contentious matter of how to behave and through it Jesus gives us a beautifully simple key to approaching all the tricky debates and issues of our day so Mark chapter 7 verse1 now when the Pharisees gathered to him with some of the scribes who'd come from Jerusalem they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands that were defiled that is unwashed for the fares and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands properly holding to the tradition of the elders and when they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash and there are many other Traditions that they observe such as the washing of Cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches and the Pharisees and the scribes asked him why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders but eat with defiled hands and he said to them well did Isaiah prophesy of you Hypocrites as it is written this people honors me with their lips but their heart is far from me in vain do they worship me teach teaching as doctrines the Commandments of men you leave the Commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men and he said to them you have a fine way of rejecting the Commandment of God in order to establish your tradition for Moses said honor your father and your mother and whoever reviles father or mother must surely die but you say if a man tells his father or his mother whatever you would have gain from me is Corban that is given to God then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down and many such things you do so here we have a dispute and it's over a a simple matter of handwashing the Pharisees are offended that Jesus disciples did not wash their hands before eating and we need to be clear this is not a matter of personal hygiene the Pharisees and scribes is not that they merely dislike grubby paws at the dinner table their concern is religious one it's a ceremonial handwashing their concern is that they might be verse two defiled so they insist on a ceremonial handwashing verse three according to the tradition of the elders and their objection to Jesus is that his disciples do not walk according to this tradition and to this Jesus replies verse 8 you leave the Commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men now there's our key for thinking through all the tricky ethical issues for facing Under Pressure the ethical issues of today clearly for Jesus where scripture is of God tradition is of men and it is vain hypocrisy verse 7 to equate the Commandments of men with the doctrines of God and then Jesus goes on to elaborate on his view of scripture and tradition by challenging the Pharisees about their teaching on Coran now Coran is a Hebrew word for a gift given to God and clearly what had happened was a tradition had grown up that when something was given as a coreban gift to God when you pledged that money you could not use it for anything else and so what Jesus does is he imagines a case of a young man who set sets aside some money as Corban and then finds his aged parents are in need and in that situation Jesus argues you Pharisees verse 12 you will no longer permit him to do anything for his father and mother because of that tradition concerning Corban the money the tradition says has been pledged so cannot be used to help your parents but in so doing that tradition makes the young man violate Moses command Exodus 2012 honor your father and your mother whoever reviles father or mother must surely die Exodus 21 and so what Jesus points out that the pH doing is that they sinfully reject the word of God to uphold the views of men in fact by not permitting something that scripture commanded they're setting themselves up as authorities higher than the word of God and here's our take away Jesus conviction is absolutely plain even when Moses speaks the words scripture is divine in origin so verse 10 what Moses says in verse 13 he calls the word of God and here's why this is relevant because it is the word of God scriptures Authority is supreme any human reasoning or tradition which is human in origin is subordinate to scripture not vice versa as the Pharisees had it the word of God and the words of mere creatur creatures are not and cannot be equal authorities and thus when the Divine word coni conflicts with human views human opinions human arguments human Traditions it is scripture that must be heeded says Jesus and the human views that must be rejected Jesus said have you not read in the scriptures what is written in the law again and again he shows in his interactions he believed that scripture is the Supreme sufficient Authority that must overrule and guide our thinking and are living the lesson is clear Holy scripture is the ultimate guide and Only Rule of faith and practice the only test of Truth the only judge of controversy but can I be really clear here the debate between Jesus and the Pharisees is not a DE debate over whether we should have a high view of the Bible that is not the issue this is not a debate between a conservative and a liberal the Pharisees were marked by their High view of scripture certainly when we compare them to the Sadducees the other main Jewish sect featured in the gospels the Pharisees strike us as the conservatives whereas the Sadducees look like the liberals so it's not as if the Pharisees have a low view of scripture and yet it's not as if the Pharisees simply uphold scripture and the Sadducees turn away where the Sadducees took away from scripture the Pharisees added to it for the Pharisees were most emphatically a people of tradition the Pharisees held that on Mount Si God had not only given the law the written code to Moses he'd also given a body of traditions that have been passed down the generations or orally the written law and a body of traditions and these Traditions preserved in written form in the mishna and its commentary the gamarra make up the talmud and this was treated by the Pharisees as having an authority effectively equal to the written words of scripture and the pH imagined God having equal respect for and love for scripture and the talmud the reinc tarum Speak Of God busying himself by day with the study of the scriptures and busying himself by night with the study of the missioner the traditions and with that in their world view we shouldn't be surprised that the Pharisees come to Jesus and say why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders the issue was this the Pharisees affirmed the trustworthiness of scripture but they did not in practice trust it as the supremely authoritative word of God a word that must overrule all other words and friends ever since then the church has had to hold and defend this principle of the supremacy of scripture alone to guide Christian Living and thinking for even among those who believe believe that scripture is the word of God like the Pharisees even among them scripture can get treated as merely One Voice among others listen to but not ruling in its Authority so in the second century the great Theologian irus of Leon he said scripture is the ground and pillar of our faith and the prime mistake of the gnostics he was opposing he said was that they try to read scripture through their own world view and he said you cannot take your own philosophy your own views and use that as a grid through which you interpret scripture because then scripture is not being Supreme nearly two centuries later the mighty athanasius wrote of the canonical books of scripture he said in these alone is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness let no man add to these neither let him take from these and I could list many many more theologians from the centuries after fighting for the supremacy of scripture but it was at the time of the Reformation that the matter of the supremacy of scripture would come into particularly sharp relief and it would do so because Martin Luther found himself challenging a church in Rome that did not believe that scripture is the supreme authority it did believe in scriptures Authority but not its supreme authority so when Martin Luther started he' nailed his 95 thesis to the door there in vitberg the pope sent one of his crack theologians to debate Luther a man called Sylvester Prius he was appointed by the pope and he said this he argued this to Luther he said he who does not accept the doctrine of the Church of Rome and the Pope the the Pope the pontiff of Rome as an infallible rule of Faith from which the holy scriptures draw their strength and Authority is a heretic if you don't believe that today the catechism of the Catholic church with the impr premature of Pope John Paul II teaches the church is in uh to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy scriptures alone both scripture and tradition I'm still quoting must be accepted and honored with equal Sentiments of devotion and reverence how did Luther [Music] respond well the insistence of Luther's antagonists actually clarified the issue in Luther's mind he came to see if the Roman Catholic Catholic Church holds that the pope is an authority above scripture or equal to scripture she the church cannot be reformed by scripture because the Pop's word will always Trump God's and Luther became increasingly clear the pope was abusing scripture and that a man any man can cannot be an authority higher than God's word any man who puts himself above God's word is putting himself in the place of God because after all the church the Pope the church did not bring the word into being the word brought the church into being just as the word brought creation into into being God's word comes first in fact without this principle of the supremacy of scripture we would not have seen the world changed and the church reformed 500 years ago it is this that is the first principle that distinguishes Luther the first reformer from arasmus Who provided the Greek New Testament that Luther read and benefited from but who's never counted as a reformer why is arasmus not counted as a reformer a arasmus had a clear regard for scripture he was a Biblical scholar but he would never have used scripture to bring about any serious Reformation of the church because for arasmus the scriptures did not hold a clear governing supreme authority and so the scriptures in his hands had no ability to challenge and to substantially change things the Bible was not Supreme for arasmus and so its message could be tailored squeezed adjusted to fit his vision of what Christianity was when the Bible's not Supreme its word gets hijacked and it will not reform the Church to achieve substantial Reformation 500 years ago and to achieve substantial Reformation of the church which is what we want to see today it takes Luther's view that scripture is the only sure foundation for belief solar scriptura the Bible has to be acknowledged as the supreme authority allowed to overrule and contradict all other claims or else its message will be hijacked and overruled and this isn't Luther making it up this is exactly what Jesus was talking about with the Pharisees in Mark 7 you leave the Commandments of God for the traditions of men in other words friends let's be crystal clear on this a simple reverence for the Bible an acknowledgement that it has some Authority will never bring about reformation in your life or in the church solar scriptura the supremacy of scripture is the indispensable key for Change and we can get even clearer on what the supremacy of scripture means if we compare two more men Jonathan Edwards and a man you may be less familiar with friederich scharer some are familiar I can hear from the reaction yes yes they're a little different Jonathan Edwards stood squarely in the reformed tradition friederich schlim marker is known as the father of liberal theology there were actually some similarities they were quite close in time schlim marer was born 10 years after Edwards died both were facing the challenge of the Enlightenment both agreed that true faith is more than an Ascent to a list of doctrines both believed in the importance of the heart being transformed by the truths of scripture they believed in the religious affections but otherwise Edwards and schlim marer came from different theological universes so when Edwards wrote about the believer's affections he said holy affections are not heat without light but they arise for some from some light or knowledge in other words the heat of our affections our delight in God our love for him are the result the consequence of the light of God's truth God's word affects us that's what Edwards is saying are you ready for schlak I might get rushed off the stage when I say these words schlak said Christian doctrines are accounts of the Christian religious affections set forth in speech I'll just read that again so it sinks in Christian doctrines are accounts of the Christian religious affections set forth in speech in other words Christian doctrines when I talk about the doctrine of solar scripture what I'm actually doing is just describing my own religious feelings that's how I feel about it God's word has not produced our affections it's rather our feelings have produced our beliefs that's why we have our beliefs just because of our feelings so our faith is based on what we feel and that idea would set the trajectory for Liberal theology by making human feelings and human reason Supreme Over scripture do you see some of the different positions in Roman Catholicism and in eastern Orthodoxy too scripture and tradition are looked to together as equal authorities liberal theologians in the tradition of schlak see human reason and feeling as their primary guiding light in contrast with both Jesus taught scripture is the word of God and must therefore overrule all the words and thoughts and feelings and traditions of humanity and let me say it again to be clear faithfulness to Christ here does not mean Simply Having a high regard for scripture that's not enough the Pharisees had that much to be faithful to Christ means to stand with Christ against the Pharisees in submitting to scripture as Supreme in its Authority and so refusing as Jesus put it in verse 13 to make void the word of God by our own feelings and thoughts scripture trumps all now Jesus is so clear but Christians too often have failed to live by this principle too often it's not been well understood too often Christians with a high view of scripture have veered towards thinking that this means an anti-intellectual me and my Bible biblicism that rejects all wisdom found elsewhere but solar scriptura is not the same as the view that we have no Creed but the Bible it's not what it's saying Jesus didn't reject all all human thinking all human Traditions just out of hand do you remember he went to the Feast of dedication he would recline at table to eat according to the custom of the day the Apostle Paul who taught that the apparent foolishness of God is wiser than men he could affirm that unbelievers do know and speak some truth so in Acts 17 addressing the philosophers of Athens he quoted Paul quoted Pagan poets who'd managed to say something true even though they' not properly comprehended that truth so in Acts 17 Paul says God is actually not far from each one of us for here's a quote in him we live and move and have our being as even some of your own poets have said for we are indeed his offspring and he comments being then God's Offspring we ought not to think that the Divine being is like gold or silver or stone and image formed by the art and Imagination of man you see it for Paul there is truth outside of scripture equally the reformers didn't reject all tradition or all Insight from outside of scripture they wanted to renew the church not invent a new one from scratch and so they were eager to emphasize their continuity with the early church to learn from them and therefore Luther would argue that the voices you hear from outside of scripture in the church through Church councils Creeds are good and important when they oppose error and maintain the faith Luther's only cavat was a council has no power to establish new articles of Faith the word of God has been given to the church as a whole whole and so while we do read it individually we do so as part of the church and as such we should want to hear the Bible expounded by trustworthy teachers we should want to hear their insights and some of those trustworthy teachers are dead like Luther and we still want to hear them we should want to listen to the wisdom of the Saints believing in the supremacy of scripture does not mean we say I have the Bible I don't want to hear any other voice that's not how it is now of course the main reason why Christians with a high view of scripture have sometimes been wanting to throw the baby out with the bath water forget learn in from historical theologians anti-intellectual no Creed but the Bible that the reason for that is the fear that some tradition or Insight could become the supreme authority right that's the fear and it is a reasonable right fear the Apostle Paul taught in Colossians 2:8 see to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit according to human tradition according to the elemental spirits of the world and not according to Christ we should be concerned not to be taken captive but that carefulness mustn't become a panicked Retreat from all learning a refusal to look at the works of great theologians a refusal to listen to trustworthy teachers instead we simply need to be clear that other authorities reason tradition teachers can have a ministerial Authority and so Christians should be troubled when they go against Christian precedent we don't lightly disagree with what the church has taught but such precedent does not have a magisterial Authority only scripture does so there are a number of authorities to which the healthy believer will want to submit the Govern authorities of the land Church Elders Creeds but none of those authorities are infallibly trustworthy like the word of God they are of men scriptures of God they bow to scripture not the other way round they should be listened to but scripture Reigns Supreme friends Jesus teaching about how scripture must lead our thinking in faith and practice is absolutely clear but it's not easy to follow the English reformer Hugh Latimer he once said that the eclipsing of God's word by human thinking is a great aim of Satan's work throughout the history of the church so Latimer pictured the devil as the most diligent preacher in all of England and he said this he said the devil's office is to hinder religion to maintain Superstition to set up idolatry and where the devil is is resident and preaching and have his plow going there away with books and up with candles up with men's traditions and men's laws down with God's traditions and his most holy word that's what it looks like when the devil has his plow going now sometimes of course it's obvious when human opinions Trump scripture it can be obvious when some unbelieving group make a claim that is outrightly opposed to what God's word clearly teaches it can be evident when a preacher uses scripture as a jumping off point for a dire tribe on his own views or cultural observations or when the AU authority of his ideas rest only on his own wisdom or some private Revelation he's received and when you find yourself in a situation like that you get the uncomfortable sense scripture is being used for some other agenda it's not definitive but rarely is that obvious if we agree with him because the real power of human Traditions lies in their ability to create cultures our cultures you don't have a culture do you right because while the quirks of other cultures seem blindingly often amusingly obvious to us our own culture just strikes us as plain Common Sense even the English think that about their culture it's plain common sense to act as we do a culture seems like something only other people have whereas our traditions and assumptions they're part of the very air we breathe and being so palpably unquestionably right our culture becomes a plum line as good as scripture and it's easy for those with a high view of scripture to feel a self-satisfied glow of Innocence here we're Bible Christians of course others fall down here but isn't our weariness of human thinking just exactly what sets us apart we're Bible people and many are distrustful of theology for exactly that reason and they become deaf to the cloud of witnesses down the centuries and their interpretation not scripture itself becomes the authority and you know the pages of church history are littered with Heretics who boasted of their Devotion to scripture and failed to see how biblical language concealed deeply unbiblical thinking let me give you one example the 17th century cians reading their arguments is like being hit with a Avalanche of Bible verses but look more carefully and it becomes clear that they're only teaching what seemed to them reasonable so they told thought the first principle of reading the Bible is this every interpretation which is repugnant to WR reason or involves a contradiction must be rejected there must be no contradiction can you see where that one's going to go sounds reasonable doesn't it but one can't be three ah so we won't believe in the Trinity then on the B basis of right Reason Not scripture they rejected belief in the Trinity so they used scripture to make their case but it was right Reason Not scripture that got them there and just the same way friends even conservatives can conceal their rationalism their experientialism their pragmatism with Biblical language and fool themselves that they're being truly biblical what can actually matter to the most is what they feel what they've been brought up with what seems reasonable and the culture can present such a pressure there on what is reasonable scripture can be used to confirm what they've come to believe on other grounds that is not Jesus way that is not the way to navigate the ethical difficulties of our day unless friends scripture is our Supreme sufficient Authority overruling all our lives and thoughts we will be captive to human thinking drifting with every wind of human opinion and if we do that friends we'll never see a Reformation of the church in our day dear friends let let us fix God's word as the only guiding pole star in our lives above every other word totally trustworthy Supreme in its Authority and this conviction is a Daily Commitment for it means more than merely articulating some impeccable formula of belief about the Bible all too easily we can hold our beliefs on paper and not act on them true faithfulness to Christ depends on our actual submission to God's word as our supreme authority where God has spoken we obey and so may the god of Truth be glor GL ified in all our testing times today amen that was Dr Michael Reeves with a message titled the Bible and ethics I'm Nathan W Bingham and we're here at lioner 2022 National Conference we're going to take a quick break before we enjoy a live Q&A session with several of our speakers but first I want to let you know about a special resource offer that you can request when you support ligers gospel Outreach which helps provide live stream events just like this one we've just heard a message on the importance of knowing God's word and to help you in your Bible study we'll send you a DVD copy of Dr W Robert Godfrey's video teaching series learning to love the Psalms which you'll be able to stream in the lioner app while you wait for the DVD to arrive also his hard cover book by the same title and the accompanying digital study guide you can request these three resources with your donation of any amount by visiting ligonier.org salms Dr Godfrey is lioner Chairman he's also one of our teaching fellows and his teaching on the Psalms has helped many Christians enrich their prayer lives as they come to understand this important book of scripture more deeply again you can request the DVD the hard cover book and the digital study guide for your donation of any amount when you visit ligonier.org salms we'll be back with our first Q&A session of the conference at approximately 400 p.m. eastern time I'll see see you [Music] then we're joined by the president of reformation Bible College also one of lioner teaching fellows Dr Steven Nichols Dr Nichols this weekend we're talking about Christian ethics and you spoke earlier today about the image of God what do we mean when we speak of the image of God yeah it's right there in Genesis ch chapter 1 humanity is created in the image and the likeness of God this is unlike every other thing in creation and what we have to see is that these opening chapters Genesis 1 Genesis 2 they are absolutely foundational to ethics because what we're talking about is human beings and how we relate as human beings to each other how we relate to this world God made and so it is absolutely Central to get right who we are so the Bible makes it very clear we are in the image of God now you look at this in Chapter 2 especially there's two things going on there we're formed from the dust of the ground right so we're frail uh we are finite creatures and someday we will return to the dust right but then God breathes into this lump of dust that he is fashioned in form and we become a living creature so nothing else in Genesis one to two gets this and it shows the uniqueness of man it shows the Dignity of man and this is truly at the basis of all ethics and this is the basis of all laws now the fall happens right uh people fall and creates still made in the image of God right so we go to James and there's this wonderful text in James where he says how can you with one side of your mouth bless God and then the other side of your mouth curse human it and then he says this who is made in the image of God now this is way post the fall right we're we're in the New Testament we're in the Epistle of James and James is speaking of human beings not differentiating between regenerate and unregenerate as being in the image of God so every single human being you meet you owe them dignity because they're made in the image of God and again this is foundational to how we inter inter act this is foundational to our ethics and this is foundational to our laws and so this is true even of tyrants and great sinful men and women absolutely you know there certainly there's evil in this world there's evil right from the beginning Cain takes his brother right his only brother takes him into the field and kills him so Humanity while having dignity we in the reformed tradition also like to talk about depravity and we must remember both of those and so what we see at work is depravity we see the dark quarters of the human heart coming to fruition and coming to pass in the way Humanity turns on each other it's it's first fundamentally turning against God and then Adam and Eve turn on each other and then Cain slays Abel so this is the reality of the world that we live in and as we understand human beings this gets complicated but it's both dignity and depravity how do we see today the the the doctrine of the of man being made in the image of God being attacked yeah absolutely you know one of the things I tried to talk about in my talk was what we see here in Genesis 1 and 2 is the sanctity of light the sanctity of marriage the sanctity of work sanctity of Law and Order what you see in our day this aggressive secularism that does it work it's a profaning of all of that Nathan it it's a profaning of life and so life is cheapened uh we see this in our own Nation through abortion we've seen it with the past Century of genocides we're seeing it currently in a war that is ravaging so we see how life is taken cheaply and a the world view of the secularist same thing with marriage same thing with work all these things are profane and fundamentally that Creator creature relationship is profan fundamentally we're here to worship God we're here to obey God and what does a secularist do right ignores God disobeys God and puts their self in the place of God so that's where we find oursel today for those watching online they're they're going to enjoy the conference this weekend Monday morning they're going to go into the workplace into the classroom can you leave us with perhaps a a practical tidbit that flows out of this Doctrine yeah let me say two things one is despite the cultural pressure stand firm for the sanctity of Life stand firm for the sanctity of marriage stand firm for the sanctity of work we have an obligation as as Citizens and as Christians to follow Genesis and then also let's not forget that we were once Fallen we were once Sinners and we were turned from God and we were following idols and Our Hope was the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that's the only hope for everyone sitting next to us at work and everyone sitting next to us in the school desk sitting next to us on the bus it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ amen well Dr Nichols thank you so much for your time oh my pleasure thanks [Music] [Music] Nathan I'm joined by the president and professor of theology from Union School of Theology Dr Michael Reeves Dr Reeves this weekend we're talking about Christian ethics and in one of your messages you're you're really calling us back to the the Bible as our normative guide for ethics can you tell us how can a book written so long ago speak to modern day issues like uh pornography youth in Asia uh genetic engineering or whatever how how can that help us today in those modern issues and challenges if scripture if the Bible were simply an ancient book written by men of a different culture then it wouldn't be able to speak into distinctly modern ethical issues but it isn't such a book since the Bible all of scripture Jesus talks about it as the word of God and and what Jesus says to the Pharisees is their problem as they're trying to guide their lives is you leave the word of God for the Commandments of men and that gives us a guide for how we're to think through life whether it be the most complicated latest ethical issue or something very daytoday Jesus shows us that that the Bible is the word of God which gives us a wisdom to understand how we were created to be what it is to live in God's world and and therefore scripture gives us a wisdom an infallible wisdom that we simply cannot find elsewhere and it is a wisdom that has an authority since it's the word of God that is supreme over all other world how would you encourage a Christian that's perhaps lacking confidence that this this book is trustworthy um and it is authoritative how would you encourage them and help give them confidence that they can rely on this book for for all of life including ethics there are many great books that have been written on why we can read scripture and know this is trustworthy we can see the manuscript record and and so on there are some great books helpfully seeing this is not um some messy hotch poch with lots of holes in it and lots of mistakes but far more than that if you're never going to read one of those books I I'll tell you I myself I I struggled with the reliability of scripture for a while and I read a work by John oin the great Puritan preacher from the 17th century and he argued that scripture proves itself to be what it claims to be the word of God so it's not just saying it is the word of God it proves itself to be the word of God and and he argued that from script scripture and that's what I've seen in scripture since that in scripture you see you read a Divine wisdom that's able to speak beyond the culture it came out of is able to speak to us today with a wisdom with a diagnosis of what it is to be human of what it is to be sinful and broken uh of what it is to live in a divided fractured culture it speaks with a wisdom there that no human voice speaks so if someone is struggling with the reliability of scripture I'd say Seek to read not merely little verses for me today read all of it together see the big sweep of scripture and see the Majestic wisdom that's there see prophecies fulfilled see how God speaks to his people see how Christ is revealed see how we see in Scripture A God beyond anything any man or woman would dream of so we're seeing ethical compromises within the church I'm curious to know if you have any thoughts is it the ethical compromises in the church the sinfulness of of professing Christians that has led to some not believing and trusting in the reliability of scripture or is it our lack of trusting in the reliability of scripture that has led to ethical compromise within the church chicken or the egg yes it it it is a bit chicken and egg I I think that it's a it's a matter of pressure that when we feel the pressure of culture and sometimes that's the apparent reasonability of what is C culturally of the moment and we we feel the pressure not to stand up to that we don't see why we should it can seem unreasonable to do so and therefore under that pressure just hearing all the reasonable arguments of why we should adopt a particular position it feels much easier to say scripture can't be speaking with a Divine wisdom into this today and so I I think it's a we're driven primarily by cultural pressure into saying we don't want scripture to be God's supremely authoritative totally trustworthy word one of your other messages this weekend is calling us to stand firm for the for the truth so what would your charge be to those watching online um to encourage them to stand firm and not compromise this struggle I think is that it is hard to stand firm when a culture seems against you and so we need a courage there's a need for Valor today in standing for God's word but it's all too easy to think courage Valor is something some special Christians have so what we need to see in scripture is where does the courage come from and to put it in a nutshell I think the answer is this the fares problem in constantly caving in in their fear of men was Jesus said you love the glory of men more than the glory of God flip that round if Believers today love the glory of God more than the glory of men they won't forsake the word of God for the views of men Dr re thank you so much for your time this weekend and also your time today with this little conversation thank [Music] you we're glad to have you joining us online for ligers National Conference our first Q of the conference is about to begin as several of our speakers take their seats to answer biblical and Theological questions from viewers like you I want to remind you that you can join the conversation on social media by using the hash licon that's Li n we'd love to hear your thoughts from the conference any quotes you've enjoyed from our speakers and also we want to encourage you to share the live stream with your friends so that more people can benefit from this teaching we cross now to Chris Larson as he moderates a Q&A session with Dr Sinclair Ferguson W Robert Godfrey Michael Krueger Steven Lawson and Derek Thomas a church historian thank you all for these questions that you submitted we are going to get through as many as we possibly can and so just right out of the gate why did God form woman out of the rib of the man rather than create her separately there's a very famous uh statement that Matthew Henry employs but he's not the author of it and I don't remember who the author of it but he took the rib not from his head that he might rule over her and not from his feet that he might walk trample on her but from his heart from his side and near to his heart that he might cherisher have I did I get that right almost who who was the original author of that statement Matthew Henry was after my period and the original author was before Lombard it's in Peter Lombard but he may not be the originator maybe Adam was the originator any yeah it's hard sometimes for to for me to know if you're going to jump in or not you know when the Bible doesn't tell us explicitly we're left to trying to follow lines that it might suggest to us that might give us Clues and we might say because he hasn't told us explicitly we just don't know but we might also think that because of what the rest of the Bible does with that relationship and the way Paul reflects on it in Ephesians chapter 5 that it was a kind of creating a clue in creation as to where he was going in Redemption and also a real indication that in the very creation of the first woman he's never done this again so he didn't do this with any of our wives he did this only with one woman that he was establishing in that one Act of Creation the pattern that would be experienced in all marriages that the man and the woman would be one flesh and that there would be in a sense the realization which we have in married life of uh Unity that reflect reflects both on the created order and is a reflection of the Redemptive order of the relationship between Christ and his church as Mike was speaking about earlier on but that's slightly speculative I think on my part bob Godfrey will tell us if anyone has thus speculated before in church history uh this this question comes from Ellie she's 13 years old and she asks why is God called a jealous God in the Bible and specifically mentions Deuteronomy 5:9 well he's jealous because he will not share his glory with another that he is to be the object of all glory that is given in worship and it would be spiritual adultery for there to be someone or anything that would take the place of Supremacy and so God rightly guards his own glory and he is passionate for his own glory and so I I think the answer in a simple way lies there what advice would you give to young couples today in their first year of marriage what habits would you develop now that have blessed your marriage and family over the years learn to say yes ma'am [Applause] I was wrong and you should have listened to your mother we we we clearly need a panel of wives uh of speakers one year to uh to get the real story well maybe I'll be the only serious one on the panel today I don't know um so uh my wife Melissa and I actually just released a book called five things to pray for your spouse uh it just came out and that's been on my brain lately just this idea of how important it is not just to be a prayerful person and not just to pray for your family or your church or the ministry that you know or the missionaries you serve but to pray particularly for your spouse and what's interesting the way we set it up it wasn't just to pray with your spouse as important as that is but to pray for your spouse and in particularly pray scripture for your spouse so one advice I would give to any newly married couple is I know it sounds like a cliche but you need to be on your knees before God on behalf of your spouse for the Lord asking him to bless their Ministry their character their efforts your marriage their job so many other things um I can't imagine a better thing to kick off a marriage than being in prayer like that if marriage is good globally because it is the way to fill the Earth then is it okay to limit the size of a family by choice are childless marriages either by choice or physical inability good I I I think this is a Dutch question you you seem to be into large families I I I wouldn't say that um there was a lady in our church she only raised 18 you know that's not a huge number uh if if you go to Washington DC that's not a large number 18 um uh you know we we've had intense discussions of that historically in the church uh is it right to limit the family or is it uh right to take all the children that God gives uh and um of course that assumes that God is thwarted by our actions if we prevent pregnancies uh the first thing to say is of course that uh where uh providentially a couple does not have children that is God's providential will for them and clearly is not a failing or a fault or a um they may feel it as a dep deprivation but but uh as I was listening to some of the discussion of suffering um uh God calls us to different Paths of service in different ways um and and I think we have to ask ourselves uh why might we limit the size of our family uh is it for selfish reasons or are there perhaps some legitimate health reasons or economic reasons I think God called us to be responsible individuals and therefore we have to look at our own distinct um circumstances and callings and responsibilities the Dutch reformed answer is you can have as many children as you can afford to send to the Christian School let me trip in something here Chris um I think it's easy in questions like this to become almost neurotic about them when this is the kind of question that belongs to many questions in the Christian Life where God tells us to be responsible in applying the general principles of scripture to the situations in which we find ourselves which actually includes whether you will whether you married if you're a man whether you married this woman in the first place or whether you didn't at least there you know Paul's kind of striking words about um about the virgin in in First Corinthians he does well if he marries her he does well if he doesn't marry her whatever else it means means that there is a responsible choice in whatever the peculiar circumstances may have been that lie behind that that an individual has to make and that applies all the way across the board and in so many dimensions of of married life now it would be sinful to rebel against one of the reasons why God has established marriage which is the the continuation of family life the raising of Godly seed uh to be stubbornly rebellious but there's nothing in Scripture that governs some of the areas of our ordinary life and you know if I can just throw in a a Penny's worth here of something I think I've come to feel very strongly I think we need to be very um cautious about books published by experts who tell us exactly how many children a quiver fool is or exactly how every couple's marriage should be usually an identic C copy of the marriage of the person who has written the book by and large scripture gives us these marvelous general principles and says you know each couple is going to have to work these things out on their own because they're basically two incompatible people who thought they knew each other suddenly discovering they don't really know each other very well and there are constant decisions that we got to make based on how do I wisely apply the general principles to the life that I'm living and it's not necessarily going to be exactly an identic of somebody else is it possible that any of the Apostles ER in any area of Doctrine outside their inspired writings well depends what they mean by that um one one of the things you want to affirm about the apostolic office is it didn't make the apostles infallible in everything they did in life as if their wives were like wow I'm now married to a perfect man and he never makes mistakes or you know when they form a grocery list is it an infallible grocery list um these sorts of things so no Apostles under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit speak infallibly in as much as they're executing their Apostolic office office so that's the question are they speaking for Christ passing along Christ teaching in their Apostolic office in as much as they do that then we would expect them to speak infallibly now much of that teaching found its way into scripture which is exactly why we think scripture is infallible um but in as much as they delivered that teaching orally even outside of scripture we would expect it to be infallible um but that doesn't mean that um everything they say at every moment would be considered infallible so I think those are important distinctions to start with um so no one's suggesting that everything they said at all times was was uh mistake free if M if if melchisedec was a christophany how does his nature differ from Christ's incarnate nature I I think the member of the panel who believes that melkisedek was a christophany would be the person to answer the question I don't know should I explain myself briefly that's hard I not all of us all of us believe that there is a Biblical relationship established between Christ and melkisedek but at least some of us I think believe that melkisedek was actually just like your ordinary king of Salem and king of Peace he he uh was a human being just like we might say that we find in other individuals in scripture lines that lead us to Jesus Christ but they themselves are not pre-incarnate manifestations of Jesus Christ so I think if there is somebody who believes that melkisedek was a manifestation of Jesus Christ then they would be able to help us one one piece of context that might be helpful here that the person asking the question knows but the audience may not know is that there's a long-standing debate among theologians and Scholars about how to interpret Hebrews 7 where it says that melkisedek had neither father nor mother and is that a literal reference to the fact that he was not human therefore some sort of early pre-incarnate vision of Christ or was he actually a real human being but I think my my view is that he's a real human being and the language of having neither father or mother is not speaking to the fact that he just popped into the world out of nowhere but rather it's speaking that in scripture he was not shown to have any genealogy and therefore has an eternal sense about him that makes him a better type of Christ um but maybe there's a view on the panel differently than that but that might help a little bit of the background there thank you my mom thinks the Holy Spirit tells her things outside of scripture is that true we don't know your mother so it's hard to [Applause] um I'm a church historian I'm only here for comic [Laughter] relief there's a uniting of the spirit and the word and Calvin was very clear on that uh I think scripture is very clear on that that where the holy spirit is at work in the world he is at work in partnership with the book that he is the author of and so to say that the spirit is speaking today apart from scripture um I I think is uh an incorrect position I think the spirit is at work in conjunction with the written word of God such that no one would ever be saved without the written word of God no one would be Sanctified without the written word of God and in both instances of regeneration and sanctification the spirit would have to be at work with the word and 1 Peter 1 uh 25 to 27 I think it is uh makes that very clear of the Union of the word and the spirit yes I agree with all of that um I I think we need to distinguish carefully between the Holy Spirit engaging in someone's mind on the level that we think of in terms of um inspiration and and the production of scripture um and the holy spirit's effective Ministry on our spirits and on our emotions and uh in the role that the spirit might play in guidance uh in and with and through the written word of God but I I I don't want us to go in the opposite direction and and completely stifle um genuine Ministry of the Holy Spirit witnessing with with our spirits that we are the children of God so I think I'd want to make that kind of Distinction the kind of the kind of Distinction where the the Puritans for example would have had and and I want to hear Sinclair on this the Puritans view of the role of the holy spirit in day-to-day life and what is the role of the holy spirit in guidance about something that the scripture doesn't speak to directly this is in your wheelous I think Mike's got no please Mike I didn't write a book on the Holy Spirit but uh you did so let's not I'm older than you are so and you're a new testament scholar and I'm not so I would be I'd be helped by what you said if you didn't mind as we all would well yeah I mean I I don't disagree with either of the things that have said I mean word and spirit work together um and lots of times we talk about the spirit moving in our lives we need to probably understand that that's usually the spirit helping us apply God's word to whatever situation we're in um as far as you know ongoing revelation of the spirit I mean I've dealt with this on the Canon side and obviously would argue that that that type of revelatory work of the Spirit uh is no longer happening today like it did with the apostles um and so I'd want to affirm that but I think dererk makes a a good point we'd want to leave room for the spirit to still be at work work ministering to our Spirits I think we can use terms like like you know uh encouraging us the spirit um ministers to us uh the spirit blesses and helps us so there's careful terminology that we' want to use making sure we don't speak of it as revelatory uh new information yeah I think I'm right in saying that the New Testament some uses the language of Revelation um to cover or in circumstances that would describe what we would call as inspired Revelation but also uses that language to describe what we would call illumination and I think it's important I think this is a point Mike is making is it Mike that that we need to make that especially today we need to make it a distinction between the Revelation that's given by Christ through the apostles for which he clearly prepared them and emphasize the absolute sufficiency of that in terms of what Paul says at the end of 2 Timothy 3 but that the spirit uses that Revelation and we experience it sometimes in ways that are so Illuminating you know we listen to an exposition and suddenly something becomes clear and I think it is quite easy for Christians who are perhaps not as well instructed as we might want them to be to confuse those two things and to think you know the holy spirit is revealing this to me and I do think that that is why we wouldn't want to say all you do is read the Bible all you do is follow the words the words words are going to be applied and you need the same spirit's help who was the instrument of giving the scriptures in order to understand the scriptures and often that comes in ways that do seem to people to be rather direct I find one of the most helpful titles of a Puritan book that deric was referring to there is uh a book entitled script scripture light the only safe light scripture light the only safe light and I think when we get that clear in our minds we always bring what seem to us to be Illuminating thoughts about a situation back to scripture to test whether these thoughts that we have this interpretation that we have is really faithful to scripture and that way we keep together which I think is what we're all trying to do the balance between the fact that the Holy Spirit did something once and for all but he hasn't gone he's not gone back to heaven now he's continuing to use that there is a passage in one of Professor Murray's essays um I think it's on Divine guidance um and he was a very sober Scotsman um um you know reformed seriously reformed and here's this I think very helpful way of saying we shouldn't imagine that some of the hunches that we have are necessarily bizarre because when our minds are immersed in the scriptures if that's not affecting the way we feel the way we think the way we have senses of things um then what God is doing is creating a kind of metallic robot and not a living person in communion with him and another thing I found helpful is uh what John Newton says in his letter on Divine guidance where he says eventually as the Christian grows the script the the Christian begins to have a sense of God's will in situations the way a Pianist who has really been Mastered by the score instinctively plays the music apparently without thinking apparently without thinking but it's so into them they they've become like you know like I think I would say um the way to live is not always to be looking up your concordance but to become biblical in the way you think the way you feel the way you respond uh even even down to the the senses you have of people that you may not be able fully to explain but are all part of the way in which the word by the spirit is impacting you to not only make you morally more like Christ but have sensitivities like Christ um and that's a lifelong it's like this answer it's kind of lifelong what is one of the best ways to evangelize a non-believer who is aware that they are going to hell but they simply do not care I don't think it's possible to really believe you're going to hell and not care what do you think I I think they may talk bravely that way but anyone who seriously contemplates what Everlasting ing torment will be cannot truly be Cavalier in the face of it and um it would seem to me maybe it'd be good to have a talk about what hell really is Maybe not maybe there's maybe you'd be wiser to move the conversation in a different direction but to think about you being the worm who dies not uh if you really contemplate that you can't be Cavalier about that one one thing I would bring up if someone says that they're they know they're going to hell but don't care I'm like well would you care if your mother was going to hell or your your father or your best friend or your sister in other words one way to change the discussion is realize if they personally say they don't care I believe the Bob is right that's probably a bit of a ruse but granting that for the moment they ought to care if they're the ones they love go to hell and if that if they're callous even to that then you can point out well not only do you not love yourself but you don't even love your mother your father your best friend what does that say about you as a person and I think you'll find that they do love those people and it probably will expose the fact they don't really believe that those people are going to hell and they probably don't believe themselves are really going to hell and it would sort of press them to be honest about what they really believe what did Jesus mean in Matthew 5:37 let what you say be simply yes or no anything more than this comes from Evil questions well in the verses that precede that Jesus said and then James 5:12 also Echoes that that you're not to swear by heaven or Earth and the Pharisees were trying to play an end run game on that and not use the name of God as Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other passages uh say that if you swear by God's name uh and failed to do it then there would be condemnation upon you and so to swear by heaven or Earth um is a way to get around using God's name such that it gives you an escape um Clause to not carry out what you are pledging to do if you only swear by heaven or Earth or the Pharisees would swear by Jerusalem something that sounds very spiritual and so let your yes be yes and your no be no um that there would be an Integrity about your word and the commitments that you make now there there can be exceptions for example if you said to your child um I'm going to take you to play golf tomorrow and it snows tomorrow then there are changes in circumstances that are reasonable that you would not go play golf in subfreezing weather with a snowstorm so circumstances changing can have a certain effect uh to that but by and large that you would be a a man of integrity and Psalm 15 and Psalm 24 both say who may come to to the Lord's Holy Hill and who may come uh into fellowship with God and interestingly enough there's only about five or six distinguishing marks of the one who is welcomed into God's presence to have fellowship with him and one of those distinguishing marks is is that you do not swear with deceit um that you do do not um present something to someone falsifying um what you are making a commitment to so that you have an escape so I mean there's a multifaceted there's a lot of different verses that need to be brought to bear um upon answering that but by and large you would be a a man whose word um you you would not change your word for personal gain that you'd be willing to even suffer unjustly if in fact uh or suffer justly if in fact the commitment you have made now is going to cost you more than what you realized and I'm not certain I totally understand the full nature of the question I want to know when it was that Steve Lawson told one of his excellent golfing Suns that they were playing golf tomorrow and it snowed or whether this was a whe this was a slight on those who live in northern climates all right Sinclair we we actually have had to wait until the temperature reaches 32° before they would let us walk onto the greens uh just a bunch of [Laughter] wimps thank you kind sir uh no you'll hurt the green if you walk on it below 32 de I'm I'm just a truth teller I'm sorry I do know the the more relevant question is can one sincerely pray the prayer lead us not into temptation and then go out and play golf please don't go Sinclair um very serious question that uh has a lot of contemporary um life today can a Christian have a homosexual orientation well if this is a question about self identity as it may well be uh then then no is the answer now can can Christians have homosexual um desires yes but those desires are sinful that to use the Contemporary word that concupisent that Augustine word um that the very the very desire itself it it's not sufficient to say it is sinful only if that desire is acted upon but the desire itself is sinful and I think that James 1 in the morphology of Temptation explicitly says that so I can't identify myself as though this is my identity I'm a I'm a gay Christian that that that that doesn't make any sense um and for my part I think that that's an unbiblical direction to go can we go to the wedding of a heterosexual couple who claims to be Believers but are sleeping together are we not to attend a homosexual wedding does attendance essentially make us a witness and if we are a witness at a wedding that dishonors God is that a sin and can it ever be biblically Justified so a compound question there Chris can you read the question again yeah it's it's these are questions can we go to the wedding of a heterosexual couple who claim to be Believers but are sleeping together are we not to attend a homosexual wedding attendance essentially making us a witness if we are a witness at a wedding that dishonors God is that a sin and can it ever be biblically Justified I there's there a whole basket of issues there that we're getting at I thought you told us in the back you're going to weed out all the hard questions is that that well and again this is a really uh difficult question because there are probably circumstances that you can't cover in one answer uh certainly the policy at our church is that um a heterosexual couple that want to be married in the church would have to receive marital counseling sadly 95% of couples who ask for marriage are sleeping together uh and they are told in no uncertain terms that they must stop sleeping together and and and one or other move out of wherever it is that they're living and those would be the terms of being married in our church right and I I don't think that the statistics uh of my current Community are very different from from other um Church communities conservative communities it's a it's a very different day from 45 years ago when I got married uh in Wales uh I I think I think the percentage of heterosexuals um who are sleeping together would have been very small but but that cultural change has taken place but I I think we have to stand by biblical principles and and to do so within the terms of marital premarital counseling um but to be uh to be insistent about it and and to hold them accountable for [Applause] it there was a Part B but I was hoping someone else would answer that so as part of the question um could you attend a homosexual wedding I would say absolutely no under any [Applause] conditions I agree with that the trickier question and that's that's a that's an easy question to answer from a Conservative Christian biblical point of view the more tricky question is what if a gay couple want to attend their parents Thanksgiving dinner and I've I've certainly had that question asked and and I I think I think part of the answer then would be to lay down certain rules they they they can't they can't sleep together in my house but do you do you want to answer that question in a manner that says we will not have any relationship at all ever again if if I say no you cannot attend and and that that's a that's a more difficult question to answer I think that it's possible under very difficult uh circumstances to still maintain a relationship with your son or your daughter um but to lay down and without compromising your own particular points of view but make it clear uh what can and cannot not happen um in this relationship at my house at Thanksgiving and before my family now mercifully I've not had to address this in in in my life but but I do know that increasingly um Christians are facing this question and I I would be cautious about simply saying no does Christ's prayer for Unity in John 17 indicate that we should pursue the elimination of institutionally distinct denominations oh that's a history [Applause] question we we should vigorously seek to end denominational distinctions and everyone should be Dutch [Applause] reformed I I personally believe in John 17 when Jesus prays that we should be one as he and the father are one that he's praying that we should be one with him as he is one with the father so that the questions of ecclesiastical youth Unity I think are secondary and derivative in the meaning of that text personally that's what I think I see the New Testament guy glazing over um um I I do think we have an obligation as Christians to labor as vigorously as we can to be a United Church with our Brothers and Sisters in Christ uh um but where Brothers and Sisters in Christ are in transigent on certain issues don't encourage him cuz he's all wet I'm not all wet and that's why I can't join Jo one of Mr Lawson's [Applause] denominations you know I think I think the first obligation is that we seek as much as possible to show our Unity as Brothers and Sisters in Christ and um that we also continue to affirm the importance of doctrinal issues so The ecumenical movement that would say what divides us as unimportant I don't think really reflects biblical truth biblical truth says truth is important and uh to be sure there are primary doctrines and secondary doctrines and tertiary doctrines we may have uh differences over which or which uh but we you know I I think the only way for forward with with people who don't yet fully see the truth um is to sit down with open Bibles and keep talking there's no other way forward and uh and that's a wonderful thing um when I uh when I sit and talk with Lutheran friends or Pentecostal friends or Baptist friends um acquaintances um I only dare to do this because we really are good friends uh I always come away Having learned something important by having heard their point of view and uh even when I'm not persuaded and have not persuaded them I hope we all come away um drawing closer to the word and and determined to keep studying would you thinkk our panelists this afternoon with me thank thank you gentlemen we always enjoy the Q&A sessions at lioner conferences and we'll get to see more of those in the days ahead as our thanks for joining us online we've made hundreds of resources from our speakers available at significant discounts in the online conference bookstore you can save on teaching series books and more when you visit ligonier.org bookstore we think these resources can be a great benefit for you your family and friends or members of your church another resource that lioner offers is table talk magazine all of our conference speakers contribute to this Bible study magazine and more than a quarter of a million people look to TBL talk magazine every month as their preferred devotional resource if you aren't already subscribed to table talk you can sign up for a free no risk trial we'll send you three monthly issues fill with daily Bible studies engaging articles and more to help you and your family grow in their walk with the Lord just go to tret talk.com to start your free trial Tri well we have one more message tonight to conclude day one of the conference we're going to take a break here in Orlando but we'll be back with Dr Steven Lon at 700 p.m. eastern time you won't want to miss it see you then

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Keywords: Ligonier, Ligonier Ministries, Reformed Theology, Reformation Theology, Theology, Educational, ligonier, ligonier ministries, ligonier national conference, christian conference, christian, Christian ethics, ethics, biblical ethics, educational, god, bible, ethical questions, reformed, reformed theology, theology, michael reeves, ligonier q, ligonier q&a, ligonier questions and answers

Id: NZ1QdBk87pg

Length: 105min 32sec (6332 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 24 2022