1996-02-27 NSPRS 026 - The Present

[Music] [Applause] [Music] we're going to explore platonic philosophy in a different way than is usually presented I've chosen for this evening the following subject the present the president of platonic philosophy have four ideas understanding meditation philosophical midwifery and the dialectic now I'm going to start talking about understanding and go through that list and then I'm going to reverse it to show you the logic of it all I have several quotes and I think we can do well with what we have I would like to have some more but I got stalled in traffic so let us pick it up from there I'm going to start with the idea of understanding and Plato reference the symposium there are four major ideas and Socrates is great speech in the symposium ignorance right opinion understanding knowledge or wisdom and he defines them because he has a goal and the goal he is he's going to develop a system of meditation contemplation he's not going to explore philosophical midwifery on the level that we usually talk about it we're going to explore it on a different level and then we'll get to the need for the dialectic so to begin consider a new way of looking at these four turns that we won't have any trouble with even number one ignorance ignorance is defined as the State of Mind which if you push the implications of the State of Mind that you're in there is no possible way you can hit the truth it doesn't mean you don't know 12 languages have PhDs have excelled in many noble courses of learning it just means that whatever you have within you in terms of this quest for wisdom you're not going to be able to hit the truth that's the ignorance so that's why we're going to start out all right the inability to hit the truth with the way in which you structure your view of the nature of reality so therefore it's an inability unable let's call it from that an inability or unable to hit the truth now that's the condition necessarily then you're going to have to discover what is right what is correct now that's an opinion now the way in which he talks about opinion is quite interesting and I can give you a quick little sample of it if you're proceeding along the road and you've not sure of the way and you stop off and see someone who knows the road and you say excuse me could you please tell me the road to San Francisco and they say oh yes take that one over there and go you'll follow the signs and you'll get there and so you get there on your way back the same way you reverse the road you happen to stop in the same location see the chap who offered you that directions and you stopped and you thanked him very much and you say thank you for the directions have brought me to San Francisco you must have traveled there yourself and always when I ever traveled there no no never have but I'm here so often giving people advice I give him advice and when they come back occasionally like yourself they often thank me for the directions well then you see he has the right opinion but he doesn't he doesn't know anything other than its fact that it's right no in such a case if you happen to have a map with you and you say look here let me show you something and you're showing the map so I never looked at a map as well take a look at this map and you can see that the advice you're giving is in fact there are good reasons for holding the position you're holding oh good heavens they're good reasons I never knew that oh yes they're good reasons follow my finger along the map oh now I understand now he doesn't have knowledge and so he says you know one day I would like to know whether there really is a place called San Francisco and it looks like it says that San Francisco up there following that little curious line these is but you know what I don't know anything about the map maker and I didn't make them out myself and I don't even know if there is San Francisco so ok see these are stages then if you're unable to the truth what you have then you have to get the right opinion if you get the right opinion that doesn't mean you have the reasons you don't you haven't yet grasped the reasons of why it is right if you grasp the reasons you must grasp the reasons why it is right and once you grasp the reasons of why it is Ryan you now have left the realm of opinion and I have understanding now liquor you have to do something therefore to move from this to this you have to move something you have to go from here to here obviously you have to find you have to take the journey yourself you have to take the journey yourself in order to confirm the fact that you have grasped these reasons but you have to confirm in your own experience what is being said is true you have to understand the reasons that are being presented and defense of it is right and the only way you can do that is to do your own seeing and your own experiencing because we do not agree no one sends a servant to a banquet to eat for them and by heavens I doubt whether anyone would want to send someone else to do their own loving for them right you want to be there yourself right so that's how we're now going to use understanding all of this quick story is to tell you that we're using understanding to say that you must grasp the reasons why whatever position you're holding is right and it's right because that's the way you can hit the truth and once you grasp those reasons you have understanding but you don't have knowledge since you haven't confirmed it your own experience okay that's the way we're going to use that term now you want to quickly push to this curious word now there is a classic difference between the course meditation and contemplation and the translators don't often follow that distinction so I'll base it on potential ease yoga aphorisms aphorisms of Patanjali which I'm sure most of you are familiar with and I'll quickly just review it and then jump into again the symposium now accordingly according the classic distinction from potentially which is very useful if you can have an object an internal or external upon which to direct your consciousness or your attentions then that is attention that is fixing your mind on an object now look just because you can fix your mind on the object doesn't mean you can hold to it therefore they see the continued fixing the mind on the object is meditation the ability to merge with the object is contemplation and at that point there's emerging between the subject and the object there's emerging and that's the way we're going to use the word contemplation fair enough what's meditation fixing the mind on an object and the continual fixing on that object is meditation therefore you can clearly see there isn't any difference in the object or the activity it's just a different proficiency and holding the mind on the object that's why by the way in Patanjali system this is called samyama yama of course means the study so sama means together when you take when you have the study that takes these things together that is formally being a yoga that's formally being a yoga yeah right okay good we can use that term in that way now all right the reason I'm making this distinction between meditation and contemplation is because the works that I'm going to refer to for this evening don't make this distinction they just have one word contemplation and they don't see that there are two processes and that's why we're going to make this distinction now so that we can make that distinction next when you fix the mind on an object meditation that often means that you can bring to the object of your meditation a greater depth a greater depth of understanding using understanding the way we just did that is knowing the reasons why things can be said the way they can be said to support the contention that man can ultimately know the object of knowledge in such a perfect way that that can be called wisdom which is what we're going to be after right so agree understanding meditation a curious thing called philosophical Midway remember we said we're going to define philosophical midwifery in an unusual way I think it's unusual though it's quite obvious in Plato's dialogue and therefore let's jump in alright here we go now one of the one of the quick ways to get into Plato is to see the difference between the natural and the ideal so we're going to present the natural and then we're going to shift it to the ideal you keep in mind both but you always keep your mind on the fact that the ideal is really what is functioning and the pursuit of understanding so let me give an example that will therefore demonstrate this point through this idea philosophical midwifery as an example here in this beautiful picture pursuit ah a fair damsel right and the object of his concern without a doubt love stage 1 stage 2 by heavens remarkable as it may seem he is successful in his pursuit and if we wanted to be careful about our language of course we would say he no longer loves no longer loves in step number 2 because love is seeking the object of your desire and he's got the object of his desire and therefore this is really love in the activity of it as a consequence as this strange story proceeds though it has some parallels in the natural world ah familiar with that stage and human experience that's good fourth stage we're going to call this the maturation that raised the nurture nurture and development here Lee clearly you can see this is the stages of pregnant this is conceiving and this is seeking the object of one's desire we're calling this the natural now as we say in Plato there's always the natural and the ideal but the ideal always takes a curious twist and you have to watch that curious shift in order to grasp what Plato is doing in so I'll quickly do that right this is the level of the body the parallel processes in the soul and therefore you can see in this beautiful picture a soul in hot pursuit of something called beauty necessarily following this model then it must follow that here the soul gets into it and here he gets into her and she lets him get into her right because in the Platonic dialogues in the symposium this word is playing such a major role in in all love is not love is not for the beautiful but for bringing to birth but if we're considering bringing in bringing birth in the beautiful and it's always in in the beautiful now for this process therefore you can see with my superior talent in art what normally isn't seen in most our Museum is a pregnant soul does not look like my pregnant zone right yeah if I admire my own beauty beautify that is bidding the work right now look here would you not agree if this follows naturally now we're going to have to have something that comes to birth and there must be a maturation and nurturing and a development of whatever that is that what is the birth of the soul John what is the birth of the soul all right now this is the way it appears this is the way it appears and there's a certain way in which you can read Plato where this is there but what he is saying while this appears to be the case there's an ideal level and that's this is the ideal level one all men all men are in fact pregnant all minute program it's not that we have to become pregnant we're all pregnant well pregnant already that's man's problem he is already pregnant and he doesn't know it therefore mankind being pregnant and when I say man of course I always mean mankind generic man then doesn't recognize his problem that he's pregnant he doesn't realize that a good part of the paymon the travail that he goes through is because he's pregnant and therefore he must really be brought to a midwife Socrates's mother was one of the great midwives and he says in the theaetetus my art he says my art my philosophy is nothing other than being a philosophical midwife because I can tell man's pregnancy I can see at what stage it's at and he said just like my mother I can help him I can help that person bring to birth the child of their of their mind for all men are pregnant in the soul all mankind oh man oh man are pregnant and when they reach a certain age they want to give birth they want to beget and they don't know how to do it so they have to seek someone who has that kind of skill and this is the philosophical midwife this is the Socratic figure that's his badge and this person then can recognize two things not only are they pregnant and ready to give birth exist but the highest art the highest level of my art is be able to judge whether or not what is being born is a true and Noble birth or whether it should be aborted and he says that's my art that's the high point in my art he said so I go around talking to men and I see that they're about ready to give birth they don't know and he says so I try to help them bring to birth the ideas that they have long been pregnant with and he said some of them are vicious and angry and they get very very upset because they want to keep the child that they've labored with and he says it's a terrible thing we must avoid it he said that's where all the problems come in is it but some they give a true and Noble birth then he says the second part the higher part of the post post out though the post process is that I then have to help them bring it up bring it up nurture it now what is that what is that so we're going to leave that at this moment as a question here and we're going to say the same question is here that is when a man isn't truly pregnant and he has a true and noble birth ahead of him and he's assisted in this noble birth such then he can he can bring it to birth and it's judged to be true or knowable what what is it that he must then do to it Wow there's our question there is our question I wanted to go back to the other part remember I said we're dealing with two parts the natural what appears in the ideal this is the ideal this is the ideal he said some men they think that their condition requires them to seek fame and fortune and so they spend their lives energy seeking fame and fortune because they think that's really what they've been pregnant with and that's what they have to give birth and so they spend their lives in such and such pursuits he said but there are some there are some who says who recognize that they really are pregnant and they're in pregnant with something what they're pregnant with is a divine birth because man and the Platonic world is half human half divine there's something about man that's divined that's the soul that's the soul and he's in a body therefore he often judged as things by its appearance in the natural world and that's the problem that's the problem we don't recognize that there's something about us that is divine and the soul has indeed conceived you see in other words starting it on this level now on the ideal level not the way it appears these two stages proceed man's birth man already comes into being he's already had this experience which is what which is conceiving and beauty and now he's pregnant therefore one two three this is man's condition as he exists here so we walk around and we're pregnant we don't know that we're pregnant one two three we start out therefore it's stage four we seek a midwife five we then have to go through the process six then we have to discover what is it we're giving birth to for heaven's sakes and what does this nurture in development main seven seven stages you see well what he wants to make clear is what you have to do to go through this process here we are one two three you're pregnant we're all pregnant we're all pregnant one two three he wants to now make clear this process now I'm only going to talk about the process not the result so therefore I'm going to call this the process [Music] this here is going to be the result what I mean by right here I mean the child that comes to birth through this process now what is that process whereby a person is is already pregnant and full and waiting to give birth what is that process what are the stages what are the steps and how do you do it alright here we go in Plato's symposium in Socrates a speech this is the part of course where all this comes together Socrates is speech and the symposium he explores everything we've said everything we've said he explores and when he finishes it what he has done is brought us to a level of understanding we've reached a level of understanding we know that we're pregnant we know we need a midwife we know we have to go through a process of birthing and therefore now going to talk about the last I should trick over the last four paragraphs and Socrates's because they're 12 paragraphs in the whole thing if you use the rouse translation and the great dialogues of Plato and that 12 each one has interrelation with the other parts much like a very good tapestry you know all the threads of meaning go in and out and weave a fantastic thing so what we're going to now take a look at several of the figures now let this represent check the fourth paragraph the third the second so therefore in terms of the work itself this would be the twelfth this would be the eleventh this would be the tenth this would be the ninth paragraph we're going to take those four now what I'm going to do is get the first you see I'm gonna skip the first so you're gonna wonder why I'm skipping the first and maybe that'll hang you there and hold your attention for a while all right all right clever I'm not gonna tell you because I'd be giving it away there's another reason he gives us the reason he gives us that curious answer of what gives birth in two places and it's most essential that you understand the significance of it you only get that and the third so that's why I'm doing all right okay quickly so steer tema is Socrates is teacher a woman and Socrates's teacher was a woman dear team of Mantinea and she initiates Socrates into this great game called philosophy and she finally reaches the point where she says now dear Socrates as I don't know whether you're going to be able to do it or not so I don't know whether you're going to be capable of doing it but if I'll tell you what it's like and they have this kind of fun through the whole dialogue of joking with one another oh I don't know whether you'll be able to do it oh yes I'm alone I don't what maybe you won't go let me try and so they play that way so that's the way it starts here she's I don't know whether you'll be an adept at it or not but I'll tell you what it is like to be initiated into the mysteries so now we get this great thing and everything I say of course is going to come right out of the speech the language and everything else are you she's a looker you muster it out young this is when you start out young so if your instructor lead you or right you must go out and seek out those beautiful bodies and obviously my art is so superior as you can see all my figures are both beautiful and nude did you know so all my figures in it again he says what you what the if there the instructor Legion writers you have to make love to a beautiful body you have to make love to one body and then create now this is going to go through several changes you can discover several changes for as a matter of fact you must create beautiful speech so the loving right the loving must follow creating beautiful speech that attends it in this part and parcel of it then he says look here if you're then he said if you've been pursuing properly so then you don't want to love just one you must love them all and in the old days you know they had these chariots that have run through Athens and they had bumper stickers on the chariots lemon wall and that's where the expression comes from yeah oh yeah it was very a very popular thing then those days yeah so he says love them all Hank and he says now you even have to go beyond that he said now you must now look for those that are just just possess a little bloom physically but have beautiful souls as you must love them you must learn how to love a beautiful soul so now we have that opportunity there for it to draw another soul all right and he says now yet now he takes this idea and pushes it another stuff he says now you have to create such talks that will make young people better you must develop talks you must engage in talks such that will make young people better next stage now what you see from this you see is going to be an inclusive it's going to go from a particular individual stage one here to all physical bodies to include see it's inclusive next stage not only physical bodies but beautiful souls come becomes more and more comprehensive and includes more he says then you know what you have to do it says you then have to be now this is where he brings them this idea contemplation that's really at meditation rather than contemplation this event it then is what you have to do is you have to then contemplate the beauty of our pursuits and customs right so now all right now he's moving it wider now you have to see the beauty and our laws and our customs and our practices you have to see the beauty in that too is it then what's most interesting is this now you have to be compelled to contemplate I have to be compelled to contemplate that the beauty and different kinds of knowledge now that's the kind of a college you want to go to you don't want to go to a college where you just learned something but you want to be able you can't pass can't get out of the course unless you can demonstrate that you see the beauty of different kinds of knowledge you can't do that you don't know it so therefore right pursuits customs different kinds of knowledge then he says when you've reached that stage there's an additional most interesting stage he said now since you have experience of beauty becoming more and more embracive this is now yep you now have to learn you now have to contemplate that great ocean of beauty which you've now gone through steps always becomes more and more embracive you now have to contemplate that great ocean of beauty and then you have to give birth so you different this is giving birth to talks that will make young people better this is creating beautiful speech this is giving birth to beautiful speech second third now you have to create such you have to then it's bringing to birth another bringing to birth many thoughts and speeches in the abundance of philosophy and the abundance of philosophy for what purposes so then you can gain strength you can gain strength and you can gain strength for the inside see you have to gain strength you have to gain strengthened and a certain degree of power and order then to get an insight into the nature of beauty and itself so what you do your well your different kind of birth now you bring it to birth many magnificent thoughts and speeches and the abundance of philosophy what does that do that has a current corresponding effect on you but builds you up met you stronger makes you more secure all right that's right meditation sits really meditation that's what meditation does that's what meditation that's not contemplation that's meditation and that's why I need to do now he said because you will then reach a point where suddenly and he uses that great word suddenly you will see a vision marvelous in its nature right suddenly you'll see a vision marvelous such then its nature which only the mind can see he says only the mind can see it nothing else can't see it because it's seeing into the nature of reality and now he give us a great description of this great thing this vision into the nature of what we call ultimate reality No he calls it the perfection of beauty the perfection of beauty and he says there alone there alone for men when he contemplates that does he discover the meaning of the purpose of life is that so that's what that's what you do want to know about it he's okay that's a perfection of beauty that's it and in that moment then you recognize the purpose of life the significance of life and that's what life is all about he said but you know what he says is what is the important part now he says you know what at that moment and the words he uses you touch you touch the nature of reality touch the nature of reality which only the mine can see and what do you get from that then he says something significant of course he says then from that point you can say that the person who's achieved that becomes a friend of God in him were told any man ever it's because then that experience you see he discovers when he touches the nature of reality that is named different the nature of himself he recognizes therefore in that perfect vision of the nature of reality what he's discovering is the nature of his own reality or the nature of reality not his own there's no more his around to talk about possession and therefore that's what he has to now he says you know what you do you you must bring it up nurture you must bring what must you bring up you see out of this experience something is brought out and I'd like to just read you one line because I like to read it and it's a nice quote very simple quote and then I'm going to go back to the first paragraph and link the two of them together remember we said we're gonna hold that back okay this is dia tema his teacher talking and she said this is a conclusion then of the eleventh paragraph do you not reflect that there only it will be possible for him when he sees the beautiful with the mind which alone can see it to give birth not two likenesses of excellent since he touches no likeness but two realities since he touches reality and when he has given birth to real excellence and brought it up will it not be granted to him to be a friend of God an immortal of any man ever is there's something rather curious as a result of that a certain excellence emerges and it has to be brought up now what is he talking about what does he talk to him I haven't been a real excellent have to be brought up have to bring it up after nurture it out of this out of this there is something then that comes to birth and according to this game you're supposed to then nurture and bring it up ah remember we get into here and it's curious first okay now Plato is very curious writer you have to be so careful when you read him you have to carry along so much with you you have to carry levels of meaning with you in order to see and appreciate what he's saying so let's do it we can do it quickly I think we can do it what are we going to try to do I'll put it in here we have that curious problem about when the soul is pregnant the soul is pregnant there must be something that must then be brought to birth and it must be nurtured I must be nurtured and brought up now what is that excellence which must be nurtured and brought up brought to birth what is he talking about this excellence what is it what kind of thing is this what can we kind of excellencies talk like Scrooge talking about human excellence of course but what kind of excellence because would that success you become a friend of the gods and a mortal of any man ever could be said to be so well watch what he says and I really enjoy sharing this with you because it's such a magnificent idea kind of the crowning one of the crowning passages in Plato he describes the relationship between teach ADEA tema describes a relationship between a teacher and student now she is the teacher and he is the student and now in this paragraph she's going to review I she's going to give a kind of summary view of where all of this goes and she's going to talk about that very point it's all gonna be done in one sentence and you have to stay with it to see it so no but before we do that just one thought we can have fun with this if we see there's something similar in our culture here are the works of Homer Hesiod now these two great authors of course are the founders of different spiritual systems within the Homeric world over than the Greek world so these are sacred scriptures rather reflected upon their looked upon that venerated their sought as examples to reflect upon and they serve that purpose in Greek culture just like in our culture not too many people read Homer but today they read things like the Bible the daodejing right the Geeta the Quran so while I go through this and he talks about this your mind goes to both levels okay well I'll just back up just one sentence just so the trouble with his sentences at this point is that they go there they're quite quite involved but being pregnant then see the student is pregnant being pregnant then we're picking up the language we had before being pregnant then he welcomes bodies which are beautiful rather than ugly if he finds a soul beautiful generous well-bred he gladly welcomes the to body and soul together and for human being like that he has plenty of talks about excellence and what the good man ought to be into practice and he tries to educate him here we go with our one sentence it's about eight lines for piyah attaching himself to a person of beauty I think and keeping company with him he begets and procreates what he has long been pregnant with he begets improve my brother's approach to teacher generated out and present and absent he remembers him and with him Fosters what has begotten begin fostering nurturing development language is there so that as a result these people maintain a much closer communion together and a firmer friendship than parents of children because they have shared between them children more beautiful and more immortal and everyone would be content to have such children born to him rather than human children he would look to homer and hesiod and the other good poets and wish to rival them who leave behind such offers spring behind them which give them give their parents the same immortal Fame and memory as they themselves hope so women let's go back what's born there's some kind of a child born isn't it right that's the language is using there's a child right there's some kind of a child I'm kind of a child there it is some kind of a child everyone would be kind of to have such children pointed him rather than human children why he would look - he would look to homer and hesiod and wish to rival them now if someone wants to if two teams if there's a rivalry well what is what kind of relationship is he it's being described with that turn is this saying that the child of their relationship of course this person is already pregnant right he's already pregnant this person has diya Tina as the Midwife is the philosophical midlife the child then of that relationship the child right that child I shouldn't say of their relationship because in I mean in that other sense of relationship the relationship of the Midwife assists the pregnant party to give to birth so there's that there it is a beautiful picture of the pregnant soul did not therefore this is the child and therefore this person Socrates in this case considering the child would then nurture it and bring it up because he thinks he can do one wish to rival them means means you're going to do what if you're going to rival them partner it's going to be a competition with him and hopefully beat him down beat him up or go beyond no Willie well if that means then when this work was written by Plato he could see that this whole process we're talking about is going to bring into existence a child of their relationship that's going to rival homer and Hesiod it's going to rile rival the sacred scriptures of that age and he could see it that's what he said ah hmm now what is that experience what is that experience that when you proceed in this way through what we now call philosophy which is an understanding of how all of this goes on you move from ignorance you get the right answers you now know the reasons for the right answers and how you want to confirm it in your own experience that's the sense that's this that's that suddenly you will behold a beauty marvelous sense and its nature Socrates beyond that which you have ever seen we need to take a look at that what is that and how does that then relate to our last category called the dialectic all right ready this is all background for this part now I don't want to use that again where this yep [Applause] okay now look ER if this is a way in which men can be brought to have such a vision through the mind alone such that it can rival the religious traditions of a whole age how are men then how are men how are men notice the language to be brought up nurtured developed to be brought up such that they can endure endure that's why you need strength right how are such men to be brought up such that they can then engage in such a magnificent pursuit and endure such a profound experience yeah now we're shifting the Republic because that's where the dialectic is now after the allegory of the cave in the upper world he concludes with this great statement he says now we have to ask how are such men right how such men are to be produced now of course this is in in a city that's the Republic and how shall they be brought up notice the language the language is exactly the same kind of language were using before isn't it brought up nurtured developed just to make sure how are such meant to be produced how shall they be brought up now here's where he shows into the light as you know some are said to go up from Hades to heaven that's the language which and the of course that their view of Hades is different than our view of hell but it's the afterworld the distance between these two terms the full range of human experience the totality of volumen experience in terms it's expressed in the extremes they would call those two extremes Hades and heaven that's the way they talk about and therefore when he gives the allegory of the cave in the upper world of course the cave is that the depths and that's the Hades and the world in the upper world is like being likened to heaven now here's the word is using I don't like light white light not we shift need a new diagram out of the symposium into Plato's Republic the question we want to pursue now is what kind of experience is it that is called the perfection of beauty which again is called gaining a vision into the nature of reality so that's big one to know as possible as well well there's one image that's being used light now in the allegory of the cave as you undoubtedly know there's a fire here in the cave and there's a wall where men walk back and forth with a raised power pit and they carry objects on their heads and the objects on their head then two are produced on the wall of the cave as shadows and men are chained here for there they've been there since childhood and they take that to be reality they take that to be reality that's the way Socrates either they take that to be a reality and therefore he says you know what you have to do you have to take one of these people release them from their chains because they're chained it's like a prison you have to stand them up got to stand them up release them from this change and you have to by questions get them to see that what they formerly took to be reality is not reality at all but nothing other than these shadows by the art for me it's not the shadows the origin the shadows are the objects being carried in the men's heads they have to see them they have to see that what's produced that is a light behind them a natural fire usually now when that happens they are terribly confused then puzzled and they prefer to go back into their old existence content he said but what if we were then to take them and force them up that difficult and steep ascent into the upper world then what would it be like is as well it's like and tooth there are two stages up there one is that so overwhelming experience of light radiance that they have to be brought up there in two stages they first have to be brought up at night so they can get used to the upper world and then never look at the source of the light but to look at the reflections now and surfaces like water lakes and things of that nature so they can get used to the objects because then when they're used to the objects and reflected in such such tiny surfaces they can then turn at last and take a look at what produced them and that of course is the nature of the Sun right the Sun in the upper world now look at the curiocity this is sent into real bang this is not called real being we shall say is true philosophy this is the ascent the journey of the soul remember what we called it from Hades to heaven that's the ascent into real being that's the ascent into real being of course is what is nature what is ultimate reality what is so this is sentient to real being that's what we shall call and that's what we'll say it's true philosophy that's philosophy has nothing doing anything else now he has this most splendid state this is the state memory looks over the whole thing and I'm gonna see if I can invite you to see it on two levels there's two parts of it I broke it up into two now he looks at this whole allegory of the cave in the upper world and he shows that in the world of the known world of the known now this is the world of the known because the realm of understanding and knowledge this is the realm of the known the ascent is the route level of understanding [Music] so that in the world of the known the upper world last of all is the idea of the good well lasted missed last thing to be seen as this and with what toil to be seen because there's a whole practice of contemplation meditation training of the soul for that vision and then seen once saying this must be inferred to be the cause of all right beautiful things for all now notice what that idea of the good does this must be inferred to be the cause of all right and beautiful things for all now notice this which gives birth which gives birth to light and the king of light and the world of sight we don't what does that mean that idea of the good then is the cause of light it gives birth to light look at this gives birth to this idea of the good gives birth to light that idea and and the king of Life what's the king of Life the Sun just two births the literal the literal and the literal Sun and Adams sorry say hey look here in this game of philosophy what you want to do then is to see the nature of reality the nature of reality is nothing other than that perfection of beauty which is seen in a vision which the mind alone can see it you see that that's equivalent in the allegory of the cave in the allegory of the cave in the upper world to the Sun which then is called in this game what is it called the idea of the good now there's a general confusion about what an idea means but it won't be any confusion for us because what they mean by an idea is simply not in an idea and therefore we won't have any trouble with it because the word idea is a Greek word that's that's the word idea and what it means in Greek if we were to translate what it means and not use that word because we confuse that world that word with a thought or a concept it's not an ideia is nothing other than the idea to behold that's right to behold so if you behold the good to behold the good and the good is the ultimate the ultimat term and greek philosophy to behold the good that is the idea of the good it ain't the good what is it it's to behold it it's not the good to behold it now look here if this is the case let's see if we can get back into this and take a look and look at this structure this out that's really curious you see it looks like the idea of the good then gives birth to in the world of sight light and the king of light which is the Sun right well look here if the idea of the group of the idea that good to behold that good if you know hey you know what that is that gives birth to light that's the course of light it's also the cause of the Sun itself well if that's the case then there must be the good sometimes called the one then how does it relate and what does it relate to unfinished oh that's because we have to turn the page right see which gives birth to light and the king of light in the world of sight therefore this clearly is the world of the visible world of sight well then there's also huh the world of wealth of the mind huh curious world of the known that's the world of the mind Wow okay luckily enough there's the idea all right st. notice parallel parallel language right therefore as the world of sight is to the idea of the good so the world of the mind must be to the good now that's what he says look here and in the world of mind herself the queen the queen yeah we have a queen we have a king and queen then look here there's a king there's the king and the light if this is the king what would the light be then in this world king and queen right be the queen Yeah right right right right I agree with you entirely all right well then in the world of mine there's got to be two things one called you know what and the other called the other what what king and queen right must have parallel structures and we're gonna now figure out well hey which is which Elena and of mind herself hey the idea of the good this is feminine it's herself ah then the idea of the good this then must be the world of the mind because this is herself well look here that and in the world of mind herself the Queen produces truth and reason that's what it does by heavens then this idea of the good which in the visible world produces light and the Sun is capable it's capable of producing both truth and reason well if that's true then as the idea of the good is capable of producing light and the Sun in our visible world in the world of mind it produces truth and reason same analogy structurally same point good good that's easy to see and must be seen by one who is to act with reason both publicly and privately it has to be seen but you know what we don't yet have what this is oh oh another another question now we got rid of one maybe we can get rid of the other let's go back then that reaching into beholding the good itself to behold the good in itself is called the idea of the good all right why because to behold the nature of reality is what they would call to behold the nature of good well well then if to pull the nature of the good is the idea of the good then how do these two relate well from what we saw before now we're on the realm of experience now we're on the realm of experience let's push that now all right here we go will the site world of mind realm of experience let's go back this end sent into real being which will go through philosophy oh here come on how I met such men to be produced in the city and how shall they be brought up into the light this experience the idea of the good is the luminosity the most what is called the most brilliant light of being the word being of course in this game it's synonymous with the nature of reality so therefore in the realm of experience this person who goes up those steps and has that culminating vision in the realm of experience that would be experienced as a divine luminosity as the most brilliant light of being that's an overwhelming experience of beauty itself this is an overwhelming experience of beauty itself oh wait how can they be anything higher than that we're off we have to be off there's something wrong from this with reason of course and the development of reasoning and everything then that is proceeded from ignorance to right opinion to understanding to knowledge you now can see the role of reason you now see that you have to train the mind in order to have this vision well that must be the ultimate but if that's the ultimate then there's no role for the good right she can be the idea the good we call the queen okay we'll put that in idea of the good alright put that in but what's the king then the good yeah okay what can we say about doesn't fit nothing here for other good that's a failure it's a failure or [Applause] we need the dialectic we only need the dialectic we only need the dialectic because of this problem let's see if we can get the problem right the problem is in this overwhelming experience which can be called Samadhi Nirvana to take on all of those great names either there is something higher than this and through a dialectic we might be able to see it or this is the ultimate turn and there's no need for the dialectic at all or unless we call dialectic logic so let's see how we can approach this luckily enough I have one other page but before I put it up here let me see whether we can bring ourselves together in this quest we started with this vision of ignorance right opinion understanding knowledge or wisdom we see the need now for confirming understanding in this kind of a vision this kind of a vision produces and insight into the nature of ultimate reality it can be called the perfection of beauty subjectively how is it described in terms of phenomena as it worth and on phenomenologically how might it be described it can be described therefore as that luminous overwhelming experience the beauty itself divine radiance is equally a convenient term to describe it now this is called from what we've been developing the idea of the good using the word idea as to behold our question now is is there something beyond that but in that experience what is in it right these in it and therefore it fits the term of contemplation so there's there's there's a there's a total identity here between the two men recognizes them as the nature of himself from the nature reality is one no difference why isn't that sufficient now the whole work of the Republic the whole work of the Republic has this is its goal and that has secondary goals of course because he says that there are many people who reach this state and they think that's efficient they think they're in the islands of the Blessed and they don't want to do anything more and they don't want to come down and help mankind and they're content and they stay there that they we must never let that happen in our state yep right nice to get a bit annoyed ah that's right we got a new stage in the Midwife that stinker is coming back ha ha so now we're going to shift now and the work called the prime entities all right that's where we're going now Republic and Parmenides what's the problem the problem is that some people who reach that they think they have reached the ultimate they have reached the ultimate they therefore stay there they have nothing to do with society they're willing to stay there for the rest of their lives in such idolic states and he says but we must never allow that to happen in our just stay now just state of course means of course adjust soul the soul itself therefore in the development of the ideal state it's nothing of course other than developing the ideal soul so there must be something beyond for the Soul then this experience or the whole thing falls apart well luckily enough I happen to brought the book with me and I could read quickly a couple of pages but before I do it actually just two sentences what we are now asking is why is there a need for the dialectic and what does the dialectic do another way of putting that is the idea the good brings to birth both truth and reason dialectic is going to use that kind of reason now the only thing we have that wet that we can proceed from is just this one notion that in this system the good can be called the one the reason why of course their two names is that all men desire the good anything that man desires the only desires that because it he thinks for himself that it's good he may be mistaken about what he calls good but the man no matter who we are if we have any life in us at all we only want to seek what we think will bring us good and that's the driving power behind all mankind that's all now on the other side the thing that he desires most perfectly can also be described in other terms then the fact that he wants it and perceives it as good for himself and that is we can perceive it as a pure one that's all we have and now we're going to see whether or not we can come to this reflection all right this certain kind of reflection we want to engage in to see whether we can go beyond this with a certain kind of reflection called the dialectic to see whether or not there's something beyond this and if so does it deserve the name of the one which event is the good that's where we're going okay what's remarkable about the Parmenides is its its simplicity you can never be confused about any sentence you can always be confused about how the sentences link one together when one another together but you can never be mistaken about what he says in any one sentence so all right now we want to see whether or not I'm going to go there to the Parmenides I'm going to make that point but before I do that I want those two sentences out of the Republic which says I mean I want to read in order to make the transition to the front end it's right here we go I think I've had this book so long that I should just leave it up and it should open up to the page by now so but I'll have to go let me sneak in a third sentence sorry because I just saw a good one then it is the task of us the founders to compel the best natures to attain that learning which we said was the greatest both to see the good and to ascend that ascent and when they have ascended and properly seen we must never allow them to do what is allowed now good heavens what's that to stay there and not be willing to descend again to those prisoners and share their troubles and their honors whether they're worth having or not we must never allow them to do what is allowed now what's there to stay there to stay there who's never allowed them to stay there the whole book is about this one problem okay now yeah okay okay I'm on the wrong page okay the dialectic method proceeds alone by this way demolishing the hypotheses as it goes back to the very beginning itself in order to find firm ground the souls eye which is really buried deep in a sort of barbaric bog it draws out quietly and leads upward having the arts we've described as hand maids and helpers these we've often termed sciences from habit they need another name one clearer than opinion dimmer than knowledge we've defined it somewhere already but understanding saying that's what he calls you understand okay now I want to go a step further what does he do this is just one more this is a part of one sentence the dialectic method proceeds alone by this way demolishing the hypotheses as it goes back to the very beginning itself that's that's all these says about the dialectic and Brooks Owen I'm in book six by the way for those of you are interested in the reference that's at 5:33 is the two finest number or page 333 in the rouse now I'm in book six at page 311 or the rouse 511 approximately 511 Stephanus number now then understand that by the other part of things which of things thought I mean what the arguing process itself grasped by the power of dialectic treating assumptions not as beginnings but as literally hypotheses that's to say step springboards for assault from which it may push its way up to the region free of assumptions what do we have to do we have to push our way free of assumptions and reach the beginning of all and grasp it clinging again and again to whatever clings to this and so may come down to a conclusion without using the help of anything at all that belongs to any of the senses but only the ideas themselves and passing through ideals that may end in ideal by the way this is the response to it I understand though not sufficiently for you seem to be described the very heavy tasks but I see that you wish to lay down that a clearer perception of real being and the world of mine is given by the knowledge of dialectic yeah that's right okay now what are we gonna do we're gonna look for assumptions we're gonna look for assumptions and look for a function all right look for assumptions and see whether by this we can unmask them and if we have any assumptions of course we haven't reached what we want to reach which is a pure idea of pure reason now would you agree so far that we can say someone experiences that let's go further and say something that all the great Roshi's have said many places and that is in such an experience one is capable of penetrating it infinitely one can go into it more and more and profound debts it is capable of being realized more profoundly whatever experience you've had it will be profound it's capable of profound depths and you know one thing about it and that is that it truly is the nature of ultimate reality you know that's what really is reality say another word for it alright now look here whether we like it or not would you not agree strictly speaking strictly speaking just if we just stay with those two ideas whether we like it or not we are obliged to say that this thing that has been experienced if it doesn't have separable parts at least one can at least talk about distinctions within it for a founder and that it is so if it is it has a certain class of parts not parts of breaking apart but you can have distinctive but you right if it is will make it more exalted and put a capital R right if it is it has distinctive parts or aspects of it or action or in any case plural well then in that experience then there's nothing else but that so in that respect if there's one name over the whole thing therefore it has a unity it's a whole not in the sense that I have three pieces of chalk but perhaps the kind of unity that comes when you talk about the parts of a symphony they don't have parts like this but you can make distinctions between them so if it is a whole it has a unity and if it has a unity it has parts of a parts then in some way we can do some other things with it we can say you know what we can say about this we could also say could we not that there's something about this that we know it's like it is like in some degree and some degree like light I mean because that's the language radiance brilliance therefore this experience is in fact like something else oh by the way equally well that experiences other than everything else isn't it doesn't it nice yeah it must be other than everything else because there's nothing else like it in that pure sense though there is something that is similar to her like life radiance life because not the same thing but there's something about it that's similarly when yours the same term huh well there's some degree then we can save this thing as a whole it has unity it can be like something right and therefore we can use the idea of some and other and by the way are we not obliged to say equally well there must be other things if that is since other things are different from that so therefore we can also say it's different from other things coming on differ in another yeah it can be known that can be known even if we say the experience itself is eternal and has no sense of time within it nonetheless it's capable of being no Department no because it's experienced yes yes right that's what we saw screw so yeah object of knowledge and the higher size must be known but when let's see now if there is such a thing as the one we know one thing we know one thing we can rest upon it can't be many right if it's one it cannot be money we're good well that's all that was that's what makes it so nice can't be married oh by the way if whatever we say about it turns out to be many well no we're not dealing with something we call the one but something else by the way if there is such a thing as a whole must it not have parts because that's what we mean by a whole that Oh what's a whole but out of that which lack the totality of all its parts are sum of all its parts or we can talk about it negatively and say that at which no part is lacking either way so therefore if something is a whole it must it then if it has parts is that plural is that a many well then anything that's a whole can't be the one agreed now look here this is very ok a unity can it be a unity wait a minute isn't a unity a bunch of parts put together in a certain way that they welcome does that involve many oh that's out no your cure if we can say the 1 or 1 1 and we can't in any way reference anything else other than itself then can we say it's the same as something else or is it similar to something else because that would involve a parts and a menace and some bases of making a comparison between two things so you have to talk about your well what we only want to talk about oh this is very damaging now we're caught in a problem well you're quite right but we're finding something else even though it may not be capable of being described we know that if it is described it's not that so it can be a neti neti not this not this not this not this or add even negativo right yeah well this is very embarrassing look here now I was going to make a whole nice list for you of all of the terms but we just add a couple more and you'll see and would you not agree we can say that can certainly when you consider this experience like any other experience this greatest experience for man isn't it never again say it's greater and it so everything else is less Canada well then you can talk about it in terms of why then good heavens if it's greater isn't the ers making a comparison and we said if we have a 1 and if the 1 is the nature of what really there for it better not be a ER or no airs allowed in our game smaller larger bigger while nothing of that therefore if someone insists this is an experience of the one will say excuse me is it greater than if you notice whether it's greater than any other experience oh yes it's great greater means er comparative yes yes therefore you can make a comparison yes yes yes goodbye floor ality not a one Wow look here we could we could try something else we could say could this experience be equal to some other ik to some other what does that presuppose the assumption behind is there must be two things that have a certain identity between them that's gone two things relation between them equal oh wow this is rather peculiar I have it I've got it look here let's agree that this is the greatest experience and looker just because it's not doesn't I mean you examine it we can't say it's one let's forget the idea of one and let's just say this is the only ultimate experience and forget this business about the good in the one and call this the ultimate let's call the idea of the good the ultimate experience and forget about this other thing we've been doing which is using a dialectic on it - in order to get to where we're at well to get to this let's change so it doesn't it need that profession change it that because we want we can keep this let's keep those this is so magnificent shouldn't we keep this and forget about these theoretical points now you're caught is your mayor contract to the degree to what you want to say man's highest experiences and ultimate and there's nothing beyond it you're over here if you say wait a minute do you want to save the nature of the nature the highest nature the thing about which we all seek is the one oh yeah yeah well then this can't be one so you're caught between the demand of reasoning and and versus experience that tension between the two goes on and on in different systems and within ourselves when you play this game now what's startling let's go the next step now what is the dialectic do apartment drives you crazy of course of course of course it drives you crazy that's the whole goal yeah that's a whole cone drive you crazy yeah let's see the other side of that is it makes you rational and everything else is crazy it's one of the other that's one of the other so looker know what happens huh people who play this game people who play in this game in some way in some way and it's not an experience because an experience has a beginning a middle and an end they recognize the truth of this and they say yep since you can't say anything about it that's that is really what we are after you can only express it negatively that's right that's right only expressing them it's an D and negativo all right it's a DNA get Eva right which is that great expression of Meister a cart you can only talk about God in terms of negatives that God seen only negatively it's a neti neti Sanskrit when Parmenides it's a pure one and you don't need the word pure when that settles into the soul of man then he knows that this is second and how you ever got that it's not an experience it's a state of mind has no beginning has no end that's where the Platonic philosophy goes and that's the dialectic that's why you need the philosophical midwifery on the last stage because you may think you're going nuts you're quite right in some sense this is crazy isn't it it's the great tension behind this because if you you can see anyone who touched us they want to hold on to that and now you're going to say to them I'm the excuse made you no want to play a little and talk about this grant and Noble experience you've had it just one last time you see if you have this then you think you aren't greater if you have this then you think everything else must be less than you all of the things that follow from prising this cause many absurdities even in the spiritual world what happened some when you moved from this for those now things just the way they are can be seen as perfect as the Chinese say just so that's the Dow that's above the down so I wanted to take you through this throw it open to questions and have some fun with you now that's the that's right that's that's the Cloud of Unknowing that's right plays havoc on theology you know yeah yeah and my stray cart did something very important with it he called it the Godhead he said I I haven't he send see because if you're arguing about Trinitarian Christianity and Catholicism and you have that's a unity three parts whether they are parts they're not becomes a big involved nice theological discussion but essentially have a unity however you describe it and that's a one of a unity so meister eckhart came along after this opened up to him and he reasoned in the following way he said oh yes there certainly has a trinity three parts but you know he says that which unites at all that which unites at all must be higher than that and the at the unity the unity itself not the unity of the three parts but the unity itself is the Godhead and therefore he developed theologically a concept higher than God and famous for the great great insight tremendous insight lectures are very beautiful good-o anybody for tonight I lost some of the concepts between the light and the Sun yes okay all right let me see if I can home all right there are three ways you can use the word light all right there there is natural fire light the bulbs burning light there's the source of that which is light and then there is this which just just to put a different name on it radiance those are three different uses word live right now in here to see this experience of the nature of ultimate reality seen as ultimate reality called the perfection of beauty that is called that is called the light of being and platonic thought Moses came down from the knowledge is being radiated so much did blinded people just to try oh yeah and the great Transfiguration in chapter 9 of the Gospel of Mark Ryan chases behalf of the mountain with Peter and John and not John Peter and Peter what did I forget the 30 Peter what no now mark wasn't a disciple ah forget ah what a thing to forget in any case went up the mountain how Transfiguration experience out of which both Moses and Elijah emerged right and that's called the great Transfiguration experience very similar both our mountains both the Transfiguration light this is the light of being it's called the Transfiguration life is the divine light and the image therefore you see an analogy is you see the analogy would be if our light presupposes the Sun so to the light of being or radiance presupposes something that must be the source of that as the Sun is the source of our visible light so this divine radiance must have us must have a that's wrong and that's called the good why the one that's the game plan mr. grant the Queen then gives birth to both of these as well as truth and reason I mean the Queen busy brain this became desert to truth and reason and in the world in the world of mine gives birth to truth and reason in the and the visible world and the visible world the she or the divine radiance gives birth to the Sun and to the light so curious things we all know is that that no one ever experiences life right no one knows what they're talking about in the everyday world agrees because like right now to see that wall I'm able to see the wall or a picture on that wall and we do not agree there's light here but do I ever experience directly this or do I experience that and therefore no one ever experienced light in its own therefore the only people who really know what they're talking about when they talk about light are people who have this experience we infer the presence of this because things are visible no no no if someone says I see light they can say excuse me she's been when you hear would you agree you don't hear words you hear sounds and from sounds you infer the presence of words yeah yeah so the only thing you ever hear or what sounds yeah in the same way by the way you could say is the only thing you ever see colors yeah the only thing ever sees cars you infer something has the colors but the only thing you ever see is color so if someone says they see light excuse me what color did it have and if they can't tell you'd say excuse me as much as I like you we're friends and all that that you something wrong what you're saying right because of your experience that you should be able to then talk about it and if you see light it should have a color and if you see the color it doesn't have any object excuse me I suggest maybe you should stop drinking or something some good advice like that right and the front of it is if they push that image that step further they never see the light anyhow it's an image in the mind they got a candle in the mind or something right turn on lights so you have a lot of fun with it the ironworkers please position yeah so thank you I wanted to take more questions of course if you have them but this is what I wanted to take through and that's how I see philosophy in the present therefore we have another one for the future but this is the problem it's not an experience no no it's not that we never experience it it cannot be an experience because an experience has a point of origin and has a closure right you can reflect on it it has something you can describe therefore if there's something beyond the most ultimate experience that itself cannot be an experience so with no baguette with no end then does that mean that one doesn't okay with no beginning and no end yet there's a scent and a decent right didn't we establish that with the decent then would one have to give birth all over again I guess we cannot say that does whatever it is that we know this you don't have to worry about retaining because it can't be retained and it can't be lost damn loses it doesn't take a blade of grass it's cheap right it's true you're not gonna have to feed it no no if it can't be lost I don't have to worry about regaining so this going back to the soul yeah yeah okay back in our model the pregnant sow mode once that soul has given earth because the Midwife no then is that then a mature soul or just a soul that's been Oh Oh sort of awakened well the latter oh yeah it's the latter it's it's an awakening episode well yes profound awakening no so that does so does that imply that that's all needn't ever be that it will never regress well so you can only regress from things that you losers the one you can't there's it doesn't have that quality of being grasped so it can't be lost agree is not curious it follows doesn't it though it's rather curious agreed you cannot regress unless you're someplace if this can't be described as a place what's that radiance the quote is that some people desire to stay in that state which he doesn't want to allow in his Republic just is that does that mean that it has a beginning middle in the end as far as they are concerned it had a beginning and they want to continue it they want more of that line they want it to go on they don't want it to stop no immense when they drop dead it's over if they're lucky enough to keep it throughout but it had an end set right to the most astonishing thing in this whole interesting game is one statement that all of these people make again and again and it's most irritating oh my god is there all the time I didn't recognize was there all the time I didn't recognize it oh I realize I never should have left home I was here all the time Oh My heavens I forgot that at the when I good heavens I forgot that it at the very center of our house the hearth of our house my I just could have dug up those rocks and there's the great treasure it was right there all along all of the mess and that has to follow doesn't otherwise it would have a beginning so therefore what's nice about this this is the only system that's really it was really Pleasant and I think you'll agree once once I say those ready all right here it comes it has to be obvious agreed it has to be honest and it has to be obvious that you've never been apart from it you just didn't recognize is that because of reason yes or no yes and I like to tell more about it open my mouth no I think you have to say more about it right yes it is because of reason or logic what is our inability to recognize the obvious is that because just because that's wrong I'll take what I think it is it may give you a personal reflection like what I think is I think man's condition is rather simple he's got three things he thinks he knows and we played with one of them he thinks he knows what he's talking about when he talks about line and the second he thinks he knows when he means when he says I experienced things in my mind and he goes to step further and he says things are different than I am but in the the way we developed it he has no experience of life totally but it totally totally misunderstands the nature of experience you would agree with that took it just a few minutes to reflect on it well here you can see as you can see some fish now look here the same thing is going to be said about the one will be said about the other all right now liquor here you can see a beautiful bowl in which water in the fishermen would you not agree it would be absurd if someone were to come to us and to say you know I saw some fish swimming around and if we were to say excuse me what did you see the fish in the water around there's nothing j-just the fish was just swimming around you say excuse me fish this don't swim around wait where were they swimming on goes this one next up suppose you were to say are you thinking about the goldfish that we're on my dresser table Oh y'all know yeah but I didn't see any bowl it's excuse me would you go back and please take a look and see whether or not you can see the goldfish bowl in which the fish and water in see him again he says hey you know what I did that I saw the fish in the water and on the dresser but I didn't see the bowl what would you tell them at this point talk about something else because not gonna get through that cookie are you I mean he's not gonna understand anything they're great look good look but look okay what's the difference between that statement and this one we did not follow that if people make that statement they should have some experience about this and know what they're talking about they should be able to describe it they should be able to x-y that it is and in some way there's this that does this in here and they possess it what happens when you try to ask someone to explore the way we are that statement do they look for the door do they say excuse me I think I'll go and have a walk I think we're gonna get a cup of coffee or where do they sit and engage the very frustrating isn't it to keep someone on that's right people get very upset when you question those now try this one the next one is worse would you agree they're things no by the way if they're different if you call them things because they're different than you I imagine you can describe the difference between a thing and you well first start on the I will that caused some troubles because we know these three things are the problem as long as we think we know what we're talking about that's our problem that's our problem going back to what we just read the assumptions we make see the assumptions we make block us the dialectic identifies these assumptions undermines them so therefore they put into doubt and hopefully you're not able to use them that causes frustration if you continue with that frustration long enough you might get into a nice recollection that you were in a pretty good place all along you didn't know this is what's had so much fun with this very point doesn't I mean every talk Alan Watts ever had is nothing other than this one you know man mankind is rather curious mankind goes around and he thinks he's stupid he doesn't realize he's wise and his only wisdom is when he recognizes that he was ignorant all the time and didn't know it and so you can make all kinds of playful points about this very idea and so that's what I think philosophy really is in the present and why do I think it's in the present that's what I do and I'm in the president [Applause] [Music] [Music] you [Applause] [Music] you

Channel: Pierre Grimes and the Noetic Society

Views: 3,452

Keywords: socrates, neoplatonism, gnosticism, NSPRS, philosophy, pg1, pythagoreanism, hermeticism, heraclitus, parmenides, plato, platonism, pierre grimes

Id: gJdtw_Wdc6I

Length: 114min 5sec (6845 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 06 2018