10 Types of Toxic Players - Part 1

[Music] hello to this episode of how to be a great player my name is guy and today we're looking at part 1 of toxic players and how to improve change become better if you are one and how to identify them if you want one and what to do about them once you've identified that they there before we get going I want to just say that this topic was brought to me by Demetri Randall as you can see there on the slide behind me Demetri Randall now he runs a website called true stories fake WorldCom and he writes a lot of articles and things and he dropped me an email and said listen he wants to do this article on toxic players and he would appreciate my advice so I said well this let's work together and as it transpired eventually it turned into this video and next week's video which is part two obviously of toxic players now this kind of collaboration was fantastic because not only did I get to see how somebody else was thinking but it also provided me with some insight as to what people are talking about it was on Dimitri's mind and I know certainly several other players have asked me for advice on what to do with difficult players or difficult GM's because both can be toxic absolutely but also how to correct and how to rectify I know that a lot of people see my ranting videos and say but what about positive videos so today we're looking at toxic players and next week we'll be looking at them in a positive light how to work with toxic players how to change if you are a toxic later so today we're just going through the idea of what is a toxic player how do you define that and then the different types of toxic toxic player and GM that is out there that you can obviously work with or work against and you know overcome etc etc etc so when we look at what is a toxic line our a toxic player is somebody who could on the surface appear to be very caring very dedicated to the group they bring snacks they make everyone feel at home except when the game starts and when the game starts they're very self-centered it's always there characters way nobody else ever gets excuse me no one else ever gets to do anything that isn't sanctioned by their character it's always their way it's always their idea it's always that their ideas are better than everybody else's and they have that air of this is how we're doing it because while I've said so and because I said so that makes it right that makes it the best option they don't listen to anybody else's idea yeah no no no what my plans better dismissive of other people they tend to be immature in terms of not even having a discussion or a debate as to how things should be done they just lay down the law and off you go this is how to do it they can be overbearing instead of just listening they just ignore or they just drive over you there's all sorts of little telltale signs and then when your characters get stuck when your character gets into a tight situation they can be the ones who go yeah I've warned you that was gonna happen so let it happen just go and I do whatever I'm not I'm not helping I'm not helping I warned you aye aye aye aye aye so toxic players like I said are self-centered and they're only helpful if it helps their character now this kind of preciousness about their character is an actual fact a good thing it's a good trait for them to have every player should feel precious over their character and the reason for it is because if you don't you become one of those players who goes oh I charge into the orcs yeah I kill it I charge I just decide I don't care about my character my character dies it's okay I hate it when players say my characters guys there's no rent when they win pair of characters when players say they don't care about their characters oh and their character can to our don't care who dies well then why are we playing if you don't care if you die oh well she dies or whatever anyway that's I'm not renting I'm not renting you should be Precious about your character but just as you should be Precious about yourself real life and stick up for yourself in real life if you are forcing everybody else around you to defer to your demands to your expectations you are not being a very good human being anyway you're being fairly toxic so let's have a look let's have a look now we've got the bully the bully is defined as someone who's physically intimidating so we're not talking about someone who just forces their will on you we're talking about someone who gets up in your face who throws dice who stands up who's storms off who literally is just physically intimidating and there are people out there who are like that I used to have a friend who sometimes when they got angry because things weren't going their way I would get physically intimidated that they might hit me or throw that I said me slap a book against my head I'm not a small person so for someone to do that means that they have to be very physically physically dangerous at least or appear to be so now that's the bully now they might not consciously know that that's what they're doing they might when they getting angry and they stamping the table and they throwing dice around on the floor they might not be aware that everybody else is in the room terrified that physical violence is going to happen how sad is that so a bully a physical bully is someone who allows that emotional frustration that rage to filter out into the real world and to cause everyone else to be nervous that's not a happy place to be trust me it's not a happy place to be someone who does another type of intimidation but a slightly different one and in my opinion it's a much worse one is the snark now the snark is someone who is sarcastic they biting they just derisive of everything that you do they dismiss it because it's stupid they belittle they're just arrogant I won't say it the snark is someone who is just never supportive of everybody else and always believes that they are better and more correct than anybody else and snarks are often sneaky sneaky snarks sarcastic sneaky snarks snipe sarcastically whatever don't judge my sentence so the idea about the snark is that the snark is someone who will sit there and will just chip away until everybody does what they say because it's less painful in the long run that judgmental attitude is not there they're biting comments on there when you do the wrong thing all of that is not there now that's not a conducive environment to helping anybody grow point number one I certainly don't grow when people say well you're a complete idiot look at that that was that that's what you call no no you're wrong you just complete you so wrong you don't even know how wrong you are that's how wrong you are and that's how thick you are no we don't want those kinds of people and you don't want to be that kind of person either if you are better if you are intellectually superior and let's be honest in role playing we often have a lot of fairly intelligent people playing these games there is a certain air of well I can program a space shuttle on my cell phone because I'm so genius at maths I also have zero self experience with other human beings because I spend all my days learning how to program space shuttles on my cell phone so we need to be aware of people who are sarcastic and when they are snarky and sarcastic towards us we need to stand up for ourselves and say you have a better alternative can you show me please and also can you show me without belittling me that's the key frame is without belittling me because it'll put the snark straight in their place because they'll either have to defend they were belittling you or that they weren't littling you in which case you can point out that they were and prove that they're wrong which something that they're absolutely terrified of or they need to shut up one of the two anyway I can't do these videos without getting emotionally upset about people who try and put other people down anyway the Kondos now the condescending is very similar oh I've skipped the ignorer ha look at that I ignored the ignore er you see how easy it is for them to do that though they just jump over they just skip and suddenly you ain't hang on wasn't it my turn yeah but you're stupid so it doesn't matter what you do you're useless doesn't matter what you do so the ignore er is literally someone who doesn't listen to others now this happens frequently because people get so excited so passionate that they've got the solution to this adventure so desperate to prove that they've worked out this plan that they ignore everybody else cuz they just they've got to get it out they've got a good I've figured it out why are you talking I can't think with you talking I've got the solution and I see this a lot with people horror who are enthusiastic to prove that they are right that they have got a point so they're not trying to prove that they they are better they have got a moment where they have figured it out and so they are better and that's a chance that they don't get very often so they get loud and they ignore frequently and I've got to stop using that word I've got to start using another word often I sit at the table as a game master and I watch some players go um but you know if and the bulldozer is just charging ahead completely ignorant completely ignoring their fellow players simply because they've figured it out and they're so excited that they're not aware of what they're doing so with the ignorer you need to grab their attention you need to make a noise or to stand up or to simply ignore them let them feel that frustration and then when they question you you can stop and say you were ignoring me I'm very excited that you're passionate about your solution but you need to work together as a team this is a team game so now we get to the condescending that is the person who knows the rules they know the rules very well which is a good thing but they expect everybody else to know the rules very well and when they don't they act high and mighty as if they've got some special power well you know the rule about being defenseless everybody knows they're all about being defenseless so if you don't know the rule about defenses and you don't know what you're doing in this game and you shouldn't be playing it anyway or you could teach us the rule about doing it being defenses rather than being a condescending something else the rules lawyer who is arrogant about knowing the rules is a condescending bully they just prove that they're better because they've done the homework and yes absolute absolute award given to the person who has read the rules and knows the rules and can quote the rules verbatim they are fantastic and they are very valuable provided that they don't belittle when they give out the rules that they give out the rules happily freely and in the spirit of cooperation the next one the GM brow bethe questioning and correcting and sometimes sometimes this happens out of frustration the GM makes a call and you as a player you like but hang a moment that's contrary to what you said five seconds ago so I don't know what's going on here you can question the gym and say hang on hang on just for point of clarity this happened last time this happens this time I just want to make sure that my character is confused as to the outcome and that air as a player needs to know that this is a GM affect and that it will it'll make sense later that's how you question the GM maybe your character isn't aware of certain things that are going on but you as a player just need their assurance that the GM is actually being a correct GM and is applying the same rules fairly if they're not applying the same rules fairly they've messed up as a GM and need to be brought to task about it they need to be corrected so there is the right way of questioning and correcting the GM and there is a wrong way the wrong way is to point at pages look look look it says here on this page that this creature you got 50 to hit points but we've already done a hundred and no wrong way you need to challenge but in the correct way we've done a lot of damage to this Creech does it look in any way injured that's how you change has this creature got more hit points than we suspect maybe the GM just has noticed that these written down 300 points of damage so the GM brow beater or the GM hoo brow beats players well you should know your character sheet if you don't know your character sheet then you shouldn't be playing yes that's true to a degree you should know what your characters can and can't do but sometimes there's lots of rules so checking them up and that sort of thing is important so questioning and correctly correcting can be done the right way and the wrong way now the jerk the last one on this list except for that one down there which is cutoff so this one here the jerk who's just difficult and stubborn for the fact that they're difficult and stubborn or they've decided I'm gonna play a character who's just difficult and stubborn and is always going to fight the party why why why would that possibly be something that's fun why would you like to be someone who just constantly stops the action from moving forward if that's your goal then I hope that you've watched the previous week's videos on how to seed character growth and your character is going to change to becoming someone who is helpful and useful and desirable later on now the jerk might just be someone who is socially inept and they don't know any better there might be someone who's an experienced they might be young and they not yet sure the conventions of your particular gaming table so there's a lot of reasons as to why they might be being difficult or stubborn you need to figure those out you need to understand why and then you do not let them continue but you need to point out that they can be corrected because really no one likes a jerk so then the one that's been cut off is actually the non participate and now this is the dead space there no comment what's your character doing [Music] okay the group's going shopping what are you shopping for no I'm fine you might be very well planned but you need to interact with the GM and now here's the reason why that's not necessarily a good thing sometimes it is nice to have one or two people at the table who don't actively do stuff every single adventure absolutely fine but you do need to have character goals you do need to want to express your character in some way and not just be sitting there taking up space at the table and this is something that Dimitri pointed out which I hadn't actually thought about before but if you have a non-participating you have someone who doesn't comment who doesn't really participate when there's combat they roll the dice they do their damage they don't describe it in a fantastic way they don't engage they just do the mechanically minimum that they can in order to continue being part of this game what they doing is that they're taking up a seat at your table which could be taken up by someone who's a fantastic player and who's going to engage and excite the rest of your players and the rest of your table and the rest of your party and your GM as well because they're coming in with fresh new ideas and they want to participate so by having this dead weight this person who doesn't participate you are actually denying yourself from having someone who could be better again though sometimes some players do like to just follow along and listen to the story in the old days then sitting at the table was really the only way they could get their fix nowadays however we've got the internet so they can watch on the internet and not take up a valuable space at your table the distractor the center of attention now that is someone who is very difficult to deal with and as a matter of fact it is a type that happens in online role-playing quite frequently when one is recording for greater mass distribution to to viewers like yourselves the character who always wants the spotlight who's always talking who's always doing something crazy or who does something crazy when they don't think that their character is getting enough attention the distractor this could also be the person who shows stuff on their cell phone or who types stuff randomly into the text chat cuz it's funny at the moment oh ha ha ha I'm not advocating that we all sit there as ancient stuffy old men and women bazoo playing our role-playing games without any distractions at all I'm not saying that what's with what I'm saying is that this is someone who's purposely doing all of these distractions so they can get attention drawn to themselves now it's easy to spot these people because they'll do almost anything they might blame it on oh I've got this or I've got that or I've got the next thing that's fine join another group who's got the same issues and then you can all be together helping one another out in a support group rather than distracting at the table they always right now this is rules this is physics this is this is just everything they're not just right about the rules they're right about the situation they're right about the setting they write about the character sheets they write again it's good to have people who have this kind of fantastic knowledge the trick is how they give it out and how much leeway they give to the GM I personally hate playing in pre-generated settings because it allows the always right type of person to really flourish what do you mean there's a Vulcan on Ferren there are Vulcans in fair and that's from Star Trek sure if it was a homebrew sitting I could possibly have gotten away with it it's a very extreme example of course but that's the idea is that these always right so right about everything and they won't let it slip up and they won't forgive you for it either I had one example which I'm going to use where I was talking about plants and flora and there was a plant that absorbed darkness and grew based on darkness and someone pointed out darkness is a nonentity it's the absence of light and so there's nothing that it can absorb there are no photonic particles of darkness this said in a fantasy world where we have dragons flying through the sky breathing fire and electricity and chlorine gas and things taking control of one's mental powers and slipping through dimensions and all kinds of wonderful things they always write is wrong and they need to accept that from time to time so when you have someone who's always rise either make them the GM because the GM is always right and it'll give them a sense of power or call them up on it and say what is it your game that we're playing in or is it their game now the timid is the other type and I have often been the timid I will admit I am NOT a strong person I don't like shouting at people I don't like emotional confrontation with people in the real world I am very timid sometimes too timid and I let all the bullies and my past pushover and dictate how things should happen and what players I should have at my table and how I should run my games and those kinds of things I personally took that information I tried to adjust my playing style I tried to adjust my way of delivering games and things until eventually I realized you know what there's only one person at the table that's having fun and that's that particular individual who's demanding that I do X Y and Zed and quite frankly everybody else well doesn't care so goodbye to that tough individual they can go and dictate how things should run elsewhere if I want to be someone who runs my game in a certain way I should be allowed to do so but I need to stand up and make the decision to ask that player to leave or as a player to ask the GM to change position or to ask another player to leave however it might work so the spineless the timid the one who doesn't have an opinion the one who doesn't take any action is very negative for a group if something is wrong and someone says to you what do you think about that player what do you think about our GM do you think they're good are they bad although this or that next thing if you don't have an opinion or if you're not willing to commit to that opinion you are effecting everybody at that game whether it's right or wrong to say well I think they could be doing this like they think they could be doing that if you are the kind who doesn't want to make a stand that's fine but then you should ask when someone comes to you and asks you about somebody else why do they feel that way support them by helping them understand their difficulty and perhaps they can start to see a different angle which they hadn't seen before so just because you might be timid or you might not have a voice such as myself I often when people come to my site oh I do have you ever I go well I might agree with you but I'm not going to say that it's too aggressive for me so I'm gonna ask you why do you feel it and have you spoken to them about it and have you looked at this one have you looked at it that way I am slowly learning at the tender age of 38 that sometimes I can say I agree that person is an ass oh I actually I think you're wrong I like that person and I think that maybe you might need to find a different space to play in because it's not fitting with the rest of the room you are on your own here anyway so those are the thoughts those are the ideas that we have when we look at toxic players I hope I wasn't being too vicious too salty I was trying to be supportive of these people who are toxic in episode 2 part 2 next week we're gonna look at how to then take this information and how do they use it how to improve upon it if you are one of these people or how to work with these people more than I've just done in going through this particular list anyway I hope that you are not a toxic player whether you don't have toxic players at your table but if you are or if you do do not worry there is hope for you yet Demetri Randall and I have put our heads together and I think we've got some answers and solutions for you that may help other than just kicking them out of the group although ultimately that does seem to be the most effective from time to time anyway until next time hit that like button hit the subscribe button and if you haven't started looking for other groups or are still looking for other group so maybe you're curious and starting a second group head on over to www.imtcva.org and tinker's with it and adds and changes and corrects and fixes as is his want anyway until next time I wish you and yours the happiest of playing [Music]

Channel: How to be a Great GM

Views: 201,137

Keywords: dnd 5e, dungeon masters guide, Dungeon master tips, Dungeon building, World building, Dnd gm tips, dnd, d&d, dnd gm tips, game master tips, Great game master, Tabletop Roleplaying, GM, How to GM, How to be a great game master, Game Master, Great Game Mastering, How to, How to be a great dungeon master, DM Tips, Dungeon Master, RPG, Game Master Tips, Dungeon Master Tips, GMing Tips, DMing Tips, dnd toxic players, toxic role players, bad role players, bad roleplayers

Id: vLkGQCvN-1c

Length: 24min 52sec (1492 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 16 2018