🇰🇵 Thae Yong-ho: Interview with a North Korean defector l 101 East

you've been a diplomat for many years you've been loyal to the regime to the North Korean regime what made you decide to defect and why now oh that a couple of reasons you know for my fiction first of all you know oh I it took me quite a long time you know to prepare this defection or because you know it was a quite a long time you know since I didn't I didn't believe you know in this regime and I do think that there was no hope you know for this regime but in order to make you know the final decision you know for making this kind of defection it was not so easy you know the decision so it's a little hard to say what is the you know the triggering point you know but yes Wendy I mean when did you start to have doubts about the regime was that after Kim jong-un took a little became the leader or had it begun before then Oh actually you know there was basic you know the suspicion you know and also doubt about the North Korean system and the regime but that kind of doubt you know did not lead me directly to the defection but you know my frustration you know about you know North can regime and the society actually you know the started when Kim Jong moon you know decided to choose the continuing the polish line of his grandfather Kim Yuna song and his father Kim jong-il actually you know when a first Kim's own came to power you know I was hopeful that you know he may bring some change and modernization to North Korean society since he started long time in abroad he knew is the world and so I was very hopeful but later Kim ji-woon you know decided to choose the continuation of the policy rather than bringing any change to North Korean society especially in March of 2013 he decided to continue openly the development of nuclear problem of North Korea you know that was his actual you know the announcement of his decision to continue the original polish line of his father and grandfather and after several months later of this official announcement in December of 2013 he executed you know his uncle and the people around him who actually yearned for you know the change of North Korean you know society so kim giman are started not only to continue the main polish line you know but and also he started to poach and execute you know the people who actually longed for you know the change in the society so this kind of development you know pushed me further to finalize my you know conclusion of defection yes what was your greatest concern about defecting there are also family reasons as well you know you I am the father of you know two children and I really worried about their future because I lived in that system you know for more than 50 years and I could very easily imagine what kind of you know life my son's would lead you know as to be honest you know my life in North Korea was nothing but the life of you know the slave you know so I really didn't want to hand over the the same you know destiny and the life which I led you know to my son's generation so I really wanted to you know give them a freedom and I just wanted to see my sons to lead a normal life like other people you know what about your family in North Korea of course you know in North Korea defection itself you know it's really a great offenses you know to the system and to the leadership especially you know if the families associated with defectors would be you know heavily punished especially the families of you know higher-level defectors like me so of course you know I so far I'm not well aware of the actual you know whereabouts of my you know family members and my brother and sister but so far what I have seen you know what about those happenings with my colleagues who defected you know in the past I'm sure that you know my families could face a very heavy punishment because of me Carrie of course you know even though I am physically and mentally free in South Korea but you know I can still can't get rid of this kind of nightmare of my family members did you ever make Kim jong-nam oh actually I met him a couple of times in the late of 1990s at the entrance of Quarry Hotel in Pyongyang but I didn't meet him face to face or what I learned that he loved to be a mixed-breed you know even some of the foreigners who are staying at the hotel what was your reaction when you heard that Kim jong-nam had been murdered Oh on that morning you know all Ibn I switched off the TV you know the world media's you know all of sudden burst into you know breaking news you know but to me it was not such a kind of surprised because you know according to the Kim ji-woon or North Korean regime Kim jong-nam was a kind of you know fiscal hurdle you know which should be eliminated a sooner or later you know who do you believe killed him I think in North Korean society it is quite obvious that this kind of you know big instant can only be ordered by Kim Jong hoon you know who himself nobody in North Korean system could ever make that kind of you know the decision some media's you know reported that maybe this is the calm outcome of a kind of you know the royalty contest or competition but I don't believe in that kind of story you know because Kim jong-nam is the half-brother of Kim ji-woon and nobody in our system can ever suggest you know to kill half-brother you know of Kim Jong moon you know so this is very obvious you know the fact that it is Kim Jong Un's decision while kim jeong-hoon want him dead Oh or you know all North Korean society also like in South Korea it's a very confusion you know influence the society aware the people you know should obey the instructions of the leader and children should respect their parents and little brother you know should respect the elder brother so this is our you know long-term the tradition and also as far as the official policy of Workers Party of Korea the ruling party in North Korea you know Kim Jong Il the father of kim giman made a official party police line that the branches in North Korean terms you know the branches of a tree should be you know cut it off you know there to let the main trunk of the tree grow well that that is the official terminology of North Korean workers party in other words you know if it is it is if it is explained in cultural way that the first son of the family should inherit you know the family business that is the usual practice no matter where in the north or south up so Kim Jong Il the father of kim giman what successful to be appointed as the heir to kim eun-sun because of this party policy because he was the first son but if kim giman you know followed this policy then it he should it is Kim zuman who should be you know eliminated because he is the actually the branch of the tree rather than the main trunk it is Kim jong-nam who is the first son Kim jong-nam was a kind of you know great psychological burden for kim giman to legitimize his leadership as the only successor to his father Kim jong-nam made it clear that he didn't want to be involved in politics why then was he a threat to Kim Jong hoon yes oh you know kim jonghwan has been in this power you know for five years but until now you know kim jong hoon has been in difficulty in legitimizing his leadership for instance you know kim jong hoon still hasn't presented you know the his age he's the place of birth where he spent his childhood was the name of his mother so everything is in ambiguity in North Korean society about you know the Kim ji-woon the reason of this ambiguity is that you know kim jongwan finds it very difficult to convince the North Korean society and in North Korea all their people most of the people even don't know the existence of Kim jong-nam the first son of Kim jong-il because the mother of Kim jong-nam was not the official wife of Kim jong-il and also the why the mother of kim giman you know was not also the official wife of Kim jong-il so these sons actually are not official I know offsprings of official wife of Kim jong-il so it's a kind of you know very great burden for the legitimacy and Kim jong-nam during his stay in abroad from time to time he met you know foreign media so Kim jong-un was very afraid of a spread than this kind of news of his existence you know from outside so I think it was a kind of you know the standing order for kim giman to get rid of Kim jong-nam anytime you know what do you make of the use of the two young women to carry out the attack oh so far if we look back into the history of you know purist activities of North Korea usually North Korea so far denied any involvement with all previous terrorist activities so whatever happened or whatever the results of investigations would come out North Korea you know would definitely deny of their involvement in this instance or the other the terrorist instance in the past but this time I learned that the methods and the way of you know this kind of you know assassination has been involved greatly you know because at this time even though North Korea orchestrated her the whole you know the process but the actual you know the player of this assassination war to foreign innocent and poor girl because they didn't to know whom they were killing and the girl didn't ran away you know from Kuala Lumpur basically if they knew what they were doing and they were very cheaply I think bored because usually if in this kind of instant usually you know the this kind of you know the so-called you know the murderers will be paid you know highly or all will be but in a long you know the preparations of this very well-organized operation but this time they were paid very less they didn't know whom they are killing you know and also they thought that it he was just a prank show so actual players were very naive you know the ladies and when the North Korean agents confirmed death of team Sonam they just vanished from the scene within several hours so it was a very well done I think preparation what do you make of the use of VX I think you know the North Korean agents thought that a Malaysian Authority could not find the chemical components of the medicine you know they would use for instance I think if Kim jong-nam didn't go straight to the airport security offices and explain what happened to his face or usually you know rien tipple face these kinds of things you know and when did they didn't find anything they just continue their journey you know but this time you know the Kim jong-nam felt something strange that's why you know he approached the airport security police and explained what happened to his eyes and it was very fortunate that CCTVs in the airport you know a court you know all these scenes so I think the when as soon as Kim jong-nam died then the investigation I think were able investigations were able to focus on his face and what chemicals you know but otherwise if Kim jong-nam just naturally continued his journey and fell down you know on his way to the airplanes I think it could be very difficult for the world and Malaysian authorities to find out what caused him to death how is the use of the chemical weapon escalated the threat of North Korea to the rest of the world it is a motor hidden story that North Korea you know has been stockpiling huge amount of chemical or web actually you know chemical weapons is the weapons of the you know the poor countries you know any pharmaceutical or fertilizer factories you know can produce the very is a sophisticated chemical weapons so North Korea has been you know the producing the chemical weapons quite for a long time but do you think the fact that they've now used it on foreign soil to kill somebody is a suggestion it suggests that they may not fear using it of course you know the Kim jong-un regime you know is not only developing the nuclear weapons and actually you know Kim's regime is ready to use it you know or in this 21st century so Kim jong-un may not hesitate you know to use any weapons if he feels a threatened we watched the North Korean ambassador in Malaysia criticized the Malaysian government over the handling of the investigation into the murder and demand that the body will be returned to North Korea and what what how would you rate the way in which he handled the situation and what sort of directives would have he been given to respond in that way oh you know North Korea's a society where you know the diplomats or cannot present his own thoughts or cannot you know act according to his own decision every activity and you know the remarks and speeches are all directed by the capital and especially in that kind of very serious you know instance of world you know the focus especially the senior officials like you know ambassadors cannot you know a present his own thoughts you know everything every single word of sentences are directly dictated by the Kim Jong Moon so when Malaysia authority ask you know North Korea best to forward any apology for his doings in there in Malaysian capital in other words that was the demand for the official apology from kim giman so that's why nobody in North Korean society can apologize for that kind of you know the remarks you know if that is the case then if he apologized what he had said or whatever then it could be a direct you know the offense you know of the system and kim jong hoon what role do you think the North Korean embassy in Malaysia would have played in this attack oh I'm not quite sure how much you know oh they knew this instant in advance but usually in North Korea this kind of you know covert activities are you know not informed to diplomats in advance because these secret operations are prepared and carried out by the Secret Service agents so he it's possible that he the Ambassador knew nothing about this it yeah that usually the ambassador's you know need to know these kind of things in advance he's executed family members team members of the regime and now he's murdered his own brother what does that tell us about the brutality and cruelty of his regime in comparison to that of his fathers and grandfathers yes oh the persecution and purge Oh was also you know a frequent thing in North Korean society even Kim il-sung and Kim jong-il period but the Kim il-sung and Kim jong-il our neighbor executed his family members you know but Kim ji-woon is different because Kim's a moon doesn't have any sense of solidarity among you know the family of members even and the relatives because kim giman was a hidden boy not only in North Korean society but he was also hidden boy to the family members of his father and his grandfather even up to now Kim Jong moon cannot present even a single photo with his grandfather because his grandfather Kim il-sung even didn't know the existence of this grandson Kim jong-un so he doesn't have any sense of you know a solidarity you know with the other rest of relatives of Kim family and to my impression Kim jong-eun is in great fear of those officials around him because those officials were old you know and the ones who will be who used to be the followers of his grandfather than his father and kim jon always isn't sensitive whether he's looked down upon by them as a young you know leader or whatever so kim giman is a man with great paranoia I think yeah I think on the surface Kim Jong Un's system looks very formidable but I think the Kim Jong Un's system has already been in slippery slope you know towards collapse so the only thing Kim Jong moon now relies on is the reign of terror you know he just continues you know to execute the officials for instance you know a few months ago he even you know deposed the high-ranking officials of his security you know service network you know so if the system even you know the purge the officials of the secret you know the security the service then you know it proves that the system is in crisis what about the ordinary North Koreans has their life changed under Kim jong-un yes the first thing are the North Korean people these days are in great fear you know because Kim Jong even you know killed his uncle and when he killed his uncle he made this you know execution open and public so people saw enough so when people learned that Kim jong-un even you know went so far to kill his uncle then that means that he could kill anybody you know so people is in great fear that is the first thing and the second thing is that North Korean people has been living in this kind of you know the circumstances and environment for a long time so to some extent they are indifferent of what's going on in a higher level of the society they are just are taking care of their own you know daily you know the survival rather than you know thinking you know something Kim jong-nam son Kim Han soul and his family and now in hiding what sort of threat do they face oh because as I've said you know Kim Hansel is the son of Kim jong-nam so that is Kim Hansel also is the member of the main you know the trunk so - Kim Jong hoon Kim and soul is also the target which should be eliminated you know that's why maybe you know the Kim Han soul is in great fear of being next target of assassination yeah there's been talk of a government in exile and getting Kim jong-nam to head up do you think that would have been a threshed Kim jong-un oh I'm not quite sure you know about those activities - organizing a kind of you know Excel covenant but you know the personally North Korean people would not accept you know as a kind of Exile craft not hated by any member of Kim you know the family because the people are so much fed up with Kim dynasty and there is really strong hate reason you know against any member of Kim dynasty so I don't think it is a good idea to invite any member of Kim family to head that kind of organization but is that amongst the ordinary people or amongst the the actual people in the know who are politically involved oh I think that's only the ordinary people but the poor people who are politically involved you know because it is the Kim Eun Seong and Kim jong-il and these you know the family which established the EM the only communist you know here a the tree system in the world so I think you see any exile government headed by any member of Kim family could not I think enjoy the support of the people Kim Jong hoon seems highly provocative and unpredictable how does the international community deal with him in negotiating for the North Korean regime to stop developing nuclear weapons yes these days you know or Kim Jong Moon is going on a kind of you know the madman's tactics you know she wants to create a kind of image that he is the man you know without any fear you know he's a very she was to create a strong man's image to North Korean society and she wants to deliver to you see the world even to America that he could you know even press the test-firing of the button of tasty firing of you know I see em and to some extent you know this kind of Mad Men's tactics it seems working I think you know for instance been kim giman continues to his nuclear test and and his willingness to test for ICBM now some experts on North Korea you know even now argue that there should be a kind of compromise with Kim jong-un regime for the sake of risk management you know and even Chinese these days Chinese Foreign Minister proposed a proposal for which is called up freeze for freeze and suspension for suspension Chinese now proposed that u.s. and South Korea you know halt the joint military drill and eat some sanctions in return for the temporary ban of North Korea's nuclear test and I spam test and that is actually the deal which kim giman wants to achieve with the world by reaching that kind of deal kim jongwan wants to get a kind of acknowledgement of nuclear power state and also the ignored acknowledgement of his legitimacy from the super power like america so he wants to be in a same level of adversary or rivalry to present trump you know and do you think a compromise would work do you think it would stop this i think that is really a very dangerous you know the initiative if you know we reach a deal and the remove or ease the sanctions then it can only serve to justify the past history of provocations so that is really a dangerous trap what about a peace treaty yes the real intention of peace treaty which Kim jong-un regime is verification is to drive American forces out of Korean peninsular so far American forces played a kind of you know the day truant role or to prevent possible war attack from North Korea to South Korea but if the peace treaty is reached between northern America then the America you see would lose its a legal you know a justification of oscillation in each troops in South Korea so North Korea could get more as a and justification to drive the American forces out of Korean peninsular that is what North Koreans want to do now that you've defected what do you hope to achieve I think the only way to solve all North Korean the nuclear threat is the final elimination of Kim jong-un regime I think in order to eliminate Kim jong-un regime of course there can be a several options even including you know the military ones but the most realistic and effective ones is to disseminate the outside informations in order to educate North Korean people for popular uprising against the regime so and do you think that's possible I think it's possible because what happened in the former Soviet Union and the former know the Eastern European socialist countries was that it was the people who overthrew the system so when the people who thought that there is no hope we see for the system and authority then you know anything could happen so something happened in other communist countries can also happen in North Korea and do you think at the moment the there be enough people within the regime that it wouldn't necessarily end in a you know a bloody war you know civil war fighting you know between the government and the people oh yes some people may come to you know ask whether there is real possibility of that kind of you know the uprising and the North Boveda you see there is any sign of resistance you know in North Korea whatever but to my interpretation there is a really no huge you know the people's resistance to the system even in North Korea especially in economic you know the field now in North Korea the daily life of survival you know are highly dependent on the general market so it is the capitalist market in a system which is providing you know for the survival of North Korean people not the socialist system of the Covenant of the regime and then the more this kind of capitalist element is growing then the more independent way of you know thinking then and also the people's the yearning for their own rights will grow and expand and one day I think the people's awareness of this kind of you know the right for survival could evolve to a kind of right for political you know the freedom that is what I'm absolutely sure but do you think that they have support from people within the regime if they did mount some sort of revolution yes oh if we review and look back into what happened in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe at that time you see those the surveillance and the security system looked very formidable but once the people stood up against the system this kind of huge network you know you were useless because even the people in that you know the enforcement you know the network share the same sense of a change you see with the people so something you know took place and unthinkable things in the past actually happened in the form of communist countries so I think in North Korea as well you know because these days the people in elite group and also people in security and enforcement network they also you know share a same the sense that you know there is no hope for this system so once there is any kind of spark you know of people's uprising whatever I think these huge Network you know can do nothing you've defected I guess to find freedom but yet your life now seems incredibly restricted given the security threat how does that feel of course you know under these special circumstances I have to pay a lot of attention to my security as well because you know Kim zoom won't be doing anything you know to eliminate the people like me you see but on the meanwhile you know I am mentally I'm very free because now I can do anything I want I can speak anything you know I want so I think basically I really enjoy you know the present level of freedom how has the security threat increased since the murder of Kim jong-nam oh of course I did not you know feel any kind of you know direct threat or blackmail or you know whatever but you know you know if we look back you know the past history of North Korea gainst its you know the opponent's North Korea so far has never stopped a activity to you know eliminate its you know the political you know the opponents not only inside the country but also the outside the country you know so that's why you know I have to be very careful you know to take care of my you know the safety but you know that kind of you know the blackmail or even the assassination of Kim jong-nam cannot you know isolate you know myself you know in the house you know I would continue my activity you know inert to the accelerate you know the speed of the reunification and the collapse of Kim jong-un regime

Channel: Al Jazeera English

Views: 371,886

Rating: 4.8036423 out of 5

Keywords: Thae Yong-ho: Interview with a North Korean defector - 101 East, thae yong-ho interview, 101 East, yong ho, thae yong-ho, thae yong ho, north korea defector, Mary Ann Jolley, north korea war, kim jong un, kim jong-un, north korea, pyongyang, north korea documentary, al Jazeera, korea utara, South Korea, north korean, yong hong, yong ho ji, north korea 2017, trump north korea, cnn north korea, north korea missile, usa north korea, north korea 2016, korean

Id: P_hkREbhpvo

Length: 38min 19sec (2299 seconds)

Published: Thu May 04 2017