Joseph Kim: Escaping from North Korea: A Defector's Story

you on behalf of the World Affairs Council in the Asia Society I'm Dan Schneider your moderator for this evening and it's my pleasure to introduce tonight's guest let me start by saying that it used to be said quite as almost a cliche that North Korea was a completely mysterious impenetrable society one that was totally isolated from the rest of the world and in that sense unknowable and I'd say in recent years that has been less the case we've had more and more interaction both people visiting North Korea as well as the flow of people out of North Korea both economic refugees political defectors and we've come to get a greater sense of what life is like inside North Korea although it still remains in many respects particularly when it comes to the governance of North Korea a an opaque society but one of the great sources of information for us has been the accounts that have been written by refugees and defectors and there's a number of them that have been I think very important in giving us a more in-depth and detailed sense of life in North Korea one of them that I had read previously that it remains a strong impression with me is the aquarium's of Pyongyang and we've seen some other accounts written by Western authors based upon the accounts of North Korean defectors now this account under the same sky is written by our guest here tonight Joseph Kim who was born in North Korea in 1990 and this account deals for the most part with his life and upbringing in North Korea before he fled the country as a teenager crossing the river into China and ultimately coming to the United States in 2006 where he completed high school and it's currently a college student in New York City and this memoir which would subtitled from starvation in North Korea to salvation in America is very focused on the years between the beginning of the Great Famine in some ways I would call this it wasn't a famine in the sense that it was a natural disaster something happened it really was a famine that came from the collapse the crisis of the North Korean system its inability to continue to provide even basic goods to its population that came out of the end of the Cold War the cutoff of subsidies and support from the Soviet Union which had itself collapsed and from China and that in some ways triggered the crisis in North Korea and so this account takes us from really I think it's a gripping detailed account of the of the famine and the impact particularly that it had on the fabric of North Korean society this is a very ordered society which everybody knew their role everybody had an assigned place and what I drew from reading this book was a sense of the how that very fabric unraveled and I think that's you're in some sense that's the life that you're telling so please join me in welcoming Joseph Kim here for a conversation about growing up in North Korea and the difficult journey that he's taken to arrive here today so let me begin and I'll I will sort of begin this conversation and we'll talk for a little while and then we'll open the floor oh I'll take the questions that you give me and relay them to Joseph so let me begin by asking you to tell our audience how you felt initially the sort of coming of the unraveling of North Korea in your own family what went on in the lives of your parents that told you that things were not normal anymore in North Korea well I mean I was only I'm about five years old so when the feminine stopped so my parent didn't really let me clear just the question more when the famine hit did my yes so my parents didn't really tell us because I mean I as a parents I'm assuming that you know they didn't want me to be afraid of the coming disasters and plus my mom also I mean my parents probably didn't know what was going on either so only thing that I could see was that from reading the my parents face expression because you know for other kids I mean my parents was everything to me I mean when they were happy I was happy but then all the sudden I their face was you know the expressions catechol and darker and I think that the confusions and I guess the mysterious that our expressions were really are difficult for us to like under strain to understand what was going on so my parents I mean didn't really tell us why it's happening other than just worrying about what they're gonna do now your father was actually a fairly successful person in the construct of North Korean society he had a good position at an enterprise that I believe was related to the to the military he was a member of the of the Workers Party he was a relatively speaking privileged person so you had in your early years you didn't you had sort of a fairly decent life within the realm of North Korean society yes I I mean my life before the famine I was not only decent but I thought that was the perfect world I mean I never had to worry about the next meal and we often I also often received some special candies or some special snacks from the supermarkets so I mean all I had to do was to go out with my friends from neighbourhood and hang out and just running around and you know which I'm grateful to have those memories because I think really because of that uh happy memories and the knowledge that I was being loved by my parents was really something that I helped me to be I wouldn't say optimistic but find the strength to fight or confronting the obstacles ours face later on so when do you think can you can you identify a moment when you began to think that the the sort of that life you had that settled life you had was beginning to fall apart is there anything that happened that sort of signaled that to you as a child the same nurse was again the father facial expressions that from my parents but also started my favourites nexor started disappearing which is okay I mean I was tolerant tolerable but then we also had to say a television my parents father kind of toll light to me saying or we're just selling this TV together newer one and of course that was not truth but uh that was probably the sign of the things got worse but what the scariest sign was probably when I started learned or when i learned that people actually can die of starvation not from long distance but actually I mean people that I've seen from earlier life will I saw them remember their faces from not my neighborhood well throughout your book I think one of the things that came through to me is as time goes on the central sort of driving goal of your life what's simply - to find enough to eat yes and I think that what you know I I one thing that surprised me being fairly familiar with the events that took place is that those the peak of famine is generally believed to be 95 96 1997 in that area but you describe it really as being a call most a continuous problem of simply not being able to find enough food and of course that happened while your own family life was collapsing your father lost his job they you had they had to change their place of life your parents your mother went off to try and earn money in the markets that were merged out of the sort of collapse of the rationing system in North Korea so many sort of anchors to your life were beginning to get very shaky but throughout this whole period food the search for food is sort of the driving purpose yes so actually that was why I wasn't even more difficult for me to settle down in new land in America because like as you described I mean food was so central in my life I you know my I mean the food was love and peace and everything I mean the world it was the entire world for me but ah after I came to the states I mean that in a sense my entire dream was already achieved so I didn't really know what to expect next and every and a lot of people told me that now that I reached freedom I can do everything with my life but I definitely did not know what everything meant because everything meant for me was food in packing North Korean so it was difficult for me to I guess find our reason to or find the cold new course in the States also the most traumatic event it seems to me that you described in this book is the death of your own father from starvation yes and I wonder if you could I know it's difficult but if you could talk about the what was going on in at that time in North Korea so yes I the great famine began around nineteen ninety five six and we had a you know ups and downs but always we never really had like years without worrying about food so food was always scarce so my father used to share his portion of food every minutes telling me that saying that you're a growing boy and you need to eat more and I knew that I was the remaining portion of the food was not enough for him so I think accumulating that lack of food for over the years really was a point where my father could not the fear father anymore because he was he became so my nourish that and so yeah I mean seeing of my father I always thought that my father is the strongest and you know like he was you know everything for me so it was really difficult for me to see my father not being a father that I have seen in the past and what makes me even more crazy about think about it is that my father was all he was always about the principles and the integrity for example like he if he had borrowed a pen from his friend Pramod tell him that oh I will keep this up and tomorrow by 12:30 a.m. or 12:30 noon he has to make sure that he give his back on that exact time so you cannot see that that with that type of personality or and you know it's just not he was not meant to survive in a society where the honesty and integrity it was not it just didn't allow for it your father was a loyal supporter yes of the North Korean regime he believed in the leadership of Kim il-sung and Kim jong-il after him and he he never from what you wrote as you were growing up he never said anything to indicate at least in the beginning that he had and had lost faith in anyway in the system but did you feel or ever see towards the end of his life that he no longer that he had that some that his belief in what he had done with his life had had begun to to crumble I wish that I was a little bit older when I could carry on conversations on that lever but uh he you know I think my father probably felt that way but he never really expressed a listing in purply but I mean he was also not a naive man I mean he knew what was right and what was wrong so it was probably the combination of both that are still trying to believe that there's going to be a better day but also trying to I guess keep his loyalty to the government that once he once committed to give and I think what made me really said was that when my father passed away I didn't really cry much because I was really hard for me to accepting that he was gone but when the local party officials came and took away his the party certificate I think that's where I started really become emotional and crying like right because I thought that my father you know like you know he was such a lawyer mentored the system but uh all they had to say was that uh you know sorry and just take away the certificate and I thought that he we were going to be able to keep that certificate but even certificate was was taken away so I was really saddened or embittered about like you know we couldn't even just to keep it so in the early you know previous to this time the North Korean state which was a command economy provided everything through the state including all the basic goods rations and so on were done with a ration car and through your workplace you received not only your salary but everything else now that all started to crumble in the mid 90s no longer was the state providing and so people were forced to go out and to begin to provide for themselves and one of the things I think is very important about your account is that you provide a very detailed description of the degree to which underneath the sort of surface of a very powerful state that controlled everything in fact people were doing all sorts of things they were buying and selling apartments which they weren't supposed to be doing they were there was informal marketplaces where people came and brought goods and your mother was a sort of a would-be entrepreneur and she went out and tried to make a business including going into China and coming back with goods and you yourself started to become a kind of a person of the street even at a fairly young age particularly as your parents sort of disappeared your father died your mother disappeared for long periods of time and you had to fend for yourself and you also became a kind of a an entrepreneur of a sort describe for us what life was really like in North Korea when the state could no longer you could no longer count on the state to provide for you I think it was difficult for many North Korean people because in a sense that the government provided everything there was they were told to do what the government asked and as long as they follow the commands the Federation's and everything was provided so they never North Koreans were never really ready to hustle on the street and that's where I got people I like really like I guess honest people couldn't make it because in order to survive in the corrupted or the collapsed system they had to learn how to deceive people and light people to follow their own benefits so I mean for my case I mean I didn't really no one really taught me I mean like you should do this this place but I think because I was a desperate enough to survive I learned how to begging from the streets you know I think that I started observing that what kind of people or more general symptoms about giving aids and used I found out the grandmas and soldiers I think soldiers because they are still so young and has the spiritual or spirit of like you know let's make it a better world or whatever that was they were more generous in terms of giving so those kind of are things that which I never was taught in school I mean no no subject was classes that taught me you know who I should go to beg for so I can't say I think that our necessity and that aspiration was really what drove me to figuring out or learn how to figure out leaving the empty for periods of time you were homeless and I I've read accounts from colleagues of mine who observed this also that there were you know in those days many homeless children wandering in the train stations and the streets all over North Korea and you were you join that sort of army of the homeless children yes so you know I saw I was not only homeless boy on the street when I actually even before when I was living with my parents I've been seeing homeless kids on the street but I never really thought that I would become one of them so when I found out myself that I I was also one of them it was really you know difficult and in a sense that I did not really prepare for today's and first day first two days I've been telling Finn saying more than a thousand times saying I can you spare me your leftover soap inside my head until I was able to say that out loud I think what helped me to keep up my pride and be able to ask from strangers was from seeing water homeless kids time away from dust on the ground and that really made me scared that I hope I don't speak up I would also become one of them and later on I learned that there is sort of like groups that are always go around with together because begging would not be a solution no one's really are not because they were bad person it's just that they don't have enough resources to share so we had to learn how to still it but then the merchants are like for example there were sort of gangs of kids a sort of Dickensian sort of picture that you draw of gangs that were organized out of these kids some of them went into organized sort of crime and various kinds of things and and they were even corrupt police to whom you paid off money and so on yeah it's it's funny how that are there is known I just developed our groups and rules even in the market areas rules that I can't cost are certain sections it was taken by other groups so I think just like grouping with other people is a benefit beneficial because like while you're trying to steal some food from merchants one can distract other anti merchants and one member can next a sneak out some food so it has benefits of being in the group but also they tend to understand each other more than anyone else because we all went through the similar path I think you know there is this image of North Korea and some of it comes from visitors foreign visitors who go on these very structured and guided trips and they particularly generally go to Pyongyang where a lot more resources are flowing into the capital city but even when they visit elsewhere there's an image of a fairly ordered disciplined society some of it may be the product of fear but some of it also the product of loyalty and support for the regime but what you convey in your book is that underneath that sort of surface of order there's quite a bit of chaos there's crime there's corruption there's people who are floating around in the system without actually anchors jobs places of work they're moving from place to place do you think that that we have a fairly false image of the reality of life in North Korea in some sense yes because in the West media we tend to focus so much on the nuclear weapons and the political conflicts and how crazy that one that young leader is but because of that IV so focus on that I happily I had high-level politics we tend to forget the average or the core when people of North Korean North Koreans we don't really it's really hard for Western American people to draw an image of North Korean average North Koreans and saying oh that is also there are also people like ourselves like who have hopes and dreams to be have a better future so definitely I don't think that there is a lot of images that small humanized inside North Korean society not quite I mean the government level but inste I guess more in a society where it's mita more average North Koreans know you grew up in a in a city along the border with China no not very far from the from the river from the cumin River yes and in those border areas there has been over the years a lot more engagement with China a lot of people moving back and forth going to China to work or to trade to bring goods and then bring them back Chinese goods back to Korea to sell them to North Korea and so you there's a lot of awareness of life in China as being better than life in North Korea what's the when when you thought about China and I'm going to ask you a little bit about your mother and your sister after this but when you what you were aware of as a child what was the image that you had of China relative to North Korea I think what really made me happy think about lives in China was that people there was a one friend of mine who went to China and came back told me how so much access to meats and my advices and I thought that was the most warming and had like you know like I was thinking about those like food not necessarily like the new fashions or the clothing or the lights or the TV so none of those were enticing enough for me to continuously thinking about it so mostly good food so China was a place where there was food yes I was the dumb so your mother as I said she she tried to make a business out of going back and forth to China and then the and this is very much a continuous theme in your book at a certain point she went to China with your younger sister and you were very close to your sister and you didn't know why they were going to China but your sister never came back and what what did you come to understand about what it probably had happened so I think to keep more insight of who my sister was or what she meant for me was that she was just a very extraordinary sister even like adults from my neighborhood like what's that mean like tell me you should really grateful try for us such a sister like you know palm sook and at that time I was like you know why would you dream it is like you know don't share our vision is to mind all yes but she was just really are very respected from the neighborhood and one example would be like she would my father would keep us a 10 piece of candies bring ten piece of candies and that if I equally would fight for my sister and fight for me and of course I will eat them away like right away and my sister always it one or two and then say Far West for the rainy days when I am like like sick or when I'm like upset for some reason she was always loving and she was always sacrificing for me so like I never thought being a life without my sister so that's why when even when my sister was living off the country I didn't even say goodbye properly or I didn't even give her a hug because the concept of not living with my sister or their sister was not metal in my mind and what really happened was that my mom realized that she couldn't come back with a North Korea with empty hands and only option that she had at the moment was that - I don't really like this world but my mom had to sell my older sister to help my older sister top broker Chinese broker leaving the suitor have a better light and a chance to live a better life in China than me Tony and that's now I also in retro perspective it was also a sacrifice that my mom made for me so that at least he could save me and when she came back and when I had a chance to talk to I remember how struggled she was telling trying to explain to me your reasons but I was only kids and it was really difficult for me to process her reasons and I guess now my regret or wish was instant I was a little bit I wish I was old enough to understand her reasons and the reason why I didn't share it is part of story in public before until I wrote this book was that I was really worried that people would judge my mom for what she has done but I don't have to say that this it's not just my mom but you noticed us so many other North Korean families mothers who went through similar or even worst situations or the life and so you know it was just difficult for me to imagine thinking my sister was being solved in China I mean I think I was just not being able to process what was it like for her to be in China eventually your mother was imprisoned and sent to labor camp and you don't actually ever say in your book maybe you don't know what happened to her after that you ended up going into China crossing the river yourself and sought the help of Christian churches and missionaries there and you went to look for your sister yes but you never found her is that something you're still trying to do to find both your sister and to get in touch with your mother definitely I mean I hope that uh you know through this book I can I will be able to find my sister what my mom it's difficult chipping or having no hope to see you again knowing that what kind of system were the prison's the North Koreans have but I think that's why I also my mom comes in my dreams it's funny enough that I don't see my father or my sister in my nightmares but I do see my mom very often I think it's because I still live or carry on having the carrot of kind of keeping up to see her or yeah I just yeah mine well one of the audience asked the question which I think you're sort of partially answering which as to what inspired you to write this book what were you what were you hoping to chief by writing this book I think I you know I plead that people are good people and I think that our many many people have not been able to help on this issue because they didn't know much about the informations and I was hoping providing my life experience from North Korea I was hoping that I with the story I will be able to inform more and more people but also it's I think it's a great a great example of how average college students or Americans can actually change the lives of some North Korean people I mean my life has been completely changed and you know I hope that it shows the possibility and the hopes for people to be able to more engaged and inspired to participate in the process of rescuing more North Korean defectors in China so most defectors and refugees end up in South Korea and as I understand from you you've never actually been to South Korea what do you now know and what did you know what did you understand before before you left North Korea about the differences between life in North Korea and life in the South I mean in North Korea I thought that a South Korea a spoiler and North Korea because I remember going to school elementary school where we read anecdotes or stories of how South Korean teenager voice has to clean American soldiers shoes to survive on so I was thinking about that now in North Korea but then once I came back to I mean once I left the country I mean pretty much everything that I was taught was false and I mean the evidence was prevalent I mean all over the place so I think that was also really difficult for me because I was like you know this is you know a lot of things that I believed and thought was be turning into force and so you know it was when did that first really hit you when you went to China or before you left when I went to China I I think the biggest reality was that was that there was so much light and also that common or the popular trend at the time was I I remember seeing a commercial from TV where are they like advertise a medicine that helps you lose weight and that was really interesting I was like why the heck would you find your medicine to lose your weight and I mean one one example but so many other examples now someone asks and a think an important question which is have you had contact with other defectors and refugees and have you sort of exchanged stories and compared notes and thought about as amongst yourselves what you think the future of North Korea ought to be yes I know we I don't keep in touch the North Korean defectors i30 who settle down in South Saturday in South Korea or in the US and we tried to stay in touch and talk about this the issue you know I think we don't really expect like you don't really look for big big things I mean I think the town true conclusion always is that I want to see that out there is a North Korea when kids can actually go to school instead of being live on the street learning heart stealing or learning not to bank and you know we just hope that ELISA day where we can see or we can call back North Korea with lots of food and being able to feed other people in so according to people I know who are doing we've done relief work in North Korea and who go in and out of there regularly and also according to the World Food Programme and in some ways according to the regime itself the food situation in North Korea has improved quite a bit in the last few years supposedly there's not large shortage of grains it's not considered to be anything close to the sort of malnutrition and famine conditions that we saw earlier are you hearing that as well from people who've left more recently or do you still have the impression that maybe when you get away from the sort of most visible places like in the capital city conditions are still quite bad so it's that's actually really a good point and it's actually actually has been the biggest progression or changes I don't the faxes that Ivy know I know that the North Korean defectors who lives in South Korea or in the US they send money back to North Korea and the experts experts estimate about ten to fifteen million u.s. dollars going inside North Korea so I can see that I can be very helpful and in terms of like the food situation it is also true that it has been more accessible no but I don't know whether it's because people become used in that system and it seems like they're more stable now or is it because of more food supplies in there so that I don't know but and also other actor kim jongwan or kim becoming powell he like made sure that he raised a security level in the portal area so without driving the security card and goes to lead North Korea much much difficult in my time there was a list know like wild of five Dwyers in the border so it is almost impossible for to have a North Korean homeless boy who escaped the country because she would not have enough money to bribe but the reason was just the other day a teenage North Korean soldier defected across the DMZ which is quite unusual into South Korea and and he described conditions in the army which actually are somewhat similar the things that you were describing of being beaten and food shortages but again I mean I only get to hear part of the stories from the defectors so I can't say how much progression has made inside North Korea so let me raise a difficult question that's this issue of sort of the reliability of defector stories and this came up in the case of shin dong-hyuk who was the main source the story for the book that the Blaine harden of former Washington Post reporter wrote about conditions and in the prison camps in North Korea and it later on it turned out that he had you know part of it the story he told was not accurate and that's always an issue that comes up sometimes with defectors and I experienced it myself as a journalist that always the question is they they're the the story they tell is sort of their passport to in particularly in South Korea so there's always this issue of are they telling an accurate story or they just telling something that they think people want to hear how much how do you respond to those kinds of issues that people raised about the reliability of account and I'm not talking about yours in particular but in general question is harder than my final paper so I think me see two issues with in that instant fight one being regardless whether he signed to be a little of North Korean defectors community or not he was put in in a situation he where he advocated a lot of human rights issues for North Korean people so therefore the one issue of being whether as a little didi was he create a reliable leader right that was one and the second million leader outside of North Korea very very we're trying to change the society thank you for that our Corrections out not within North right and another issue is our the biggest one is on the matter about the credibility or in a sense it's more of like asking his integrity right I definitely to see potential harms of his change narratives as a being North Korean from North Korean community defector community as a leader because you know at the end of the day it's not really tempting his credibility but of credibility about the entire community right and so that hardest part but one thing I have to say is that you know I she never really learned what leadership is or what leaders should be I mean I learned what leadership or world leaders should be throughout our education spy going to high school and going to college is I mean in American society we teach us how to be a little pursies he never really knew those kind of consequences so that's my perspective he's I guess the reliability of being fok and the other part of his personal integrity I don't think anyone can say anything about it because at the end of the day I mean if this includes for every one of us every single one of us I mean you know either you know like with you wake up in the morning it'll you wanted to have a Plex suit or pollute jacket it's really up to your choice no one really should say oh you should wear this a certain type of color source clothing so I totally I can say that yes it is not probably though it was not probably the most wise thing to changing all all five every techno what Scott without changing some narrative was probably not the most wise things but again I mean he I truly believe that he did it for the cause of all the issue and I mean no one here in this room including North Korean defectors can say the amount of attention that he brought in the world by sharing his aware stories no one can really say you did right or wrong things I guess through some I mean I guess it's matter of like question toaster and what's the does the end justify means I mean that was all kind of our answers I mean questions that even our philosophies the last person I'd been able to answer it so Who am I to say whether he did writing or wrong thing to me but all I can say is that I hope that from this instance as a community we learn from it the mistake and progress toward for the better and so last year the UN Commission of Inquiry and Human Rights issued a rather incredible report along foreigner page report on human rights violations inside North Korea and that report basically recommended that the that that first of all it said that crimes against humanity were being committed and had been committed in North Korea and it recommended that the leadership of North Korea should be held responsible in the international law crimes against humanity and it was a somewhat controversial report even in South Korea was a controversial report I don't know whether you've read the report but what do you think that idea that because you are the person who personally experienced exactly the situations that are described in that report do you feel that you were a victim of crimes against humanity I mean yes definitely I mean think about the lives I mean I mean over a million people died of starvation Mary when it could be pretty prevented I mean I recently learned that when the great famine was a happening Kim Jong Il spend or min worth billion dollars to field his father's a morning where he's I mean with that money I mean he could save so many lives I mean my father perhaps didn't have to die of the starvation I mean to me that is certainly a crime against humanity and I think in UN they talk a lot about the world accountability accountability yes I think I see a count ability as a mechanism to preserve and promoting the greatness of humanity and also to prevent the town for you know human history I mean if we don't hurt if we don't hold accountable for what children or his parents did I mean what kind of messages does that insinuate to other countries that might also also committing a crime against their own people so I do think these are very important for the international communities and the leaders to her heart this he must hold his arm in to account for what has he has been so how do you respond and this is reflected in many of the questions are asked to those people who say well it's not a good idea to raise these kind of human rights questions we should focus instead on prospects for reconciliation with North Korea particularly reconciliation between South and North Korea how do you respond to that I will let them work through I mean because we've been trying I mean we try to engage in communications we try to help I mean peace treaties but that didn't really work so I don't really understand where their argument story comes from and how today wanted to defend their defend their argument so I mean by any means I mean I hope they try on their own and you know that works I mean great you know but I don't see that it's gonna happen so I hope that they know what they're talking about because I pitch just you know I just hope that they do think twice before they actually create that it's a sensation or like the conversations so if I were to ask you what do you think five years from now or 10 years from now what North Korea will be like what would what would be your prediction really bad at predictions I mean I always thought whenever I guess my you're not the only one who's bad I think what I see the change is from inside North Korea is that more and more young generations become less and less lawyer told tourism and I think that is HUGE I mean North Korean government or the regime would not be able to sustain their power absolute power with without consensus of no no that's not that's wrong with Iran they can't ignore the mess a population and the majority opinions when it becomes like the entire country becomes so against of their own people so North Korea is actually I think if I was in their shoes I will come up with or some ways to meditate that I mean if you the interview talk about the the leadership of the regime right it's always the the problem that people pose is that if they open up they make in order to make the kind of changes they would have to make in order to meet the the demands of the population for a normal life they'd have to open up to society much more and the more they open up the more people learn my truth I was a correspondent in Moscow at the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union so I saw that dilemma working itself out in that context isn't that you see that kind of problem in North Korea today definitely because I think one way one example is that that North Korean government has started tolerance or allows people to have that black market system which is really tricky because I mean it is I mean it is clear that the North Korean government as a regime as leaders the laws that are charismatic and traditional authorities what once a mex paper described but I think it's tricky because this can be interpreted that they have that rational authority or rational rationality as being a cop meant because what if some North Koreans will be able to will come and say oh look you know like my current government is actually allowing us to do this black market activities which isn't it also kind of being rational so I hope that North Koreans are not being deceptive of what has been allowed in the system but it is also true that as you described I mean more and more people learn about our side of the world true that the black market activities I mean it is also you know almost inevitable for North Korean government to they either have to compromise with the people or they either have to forcefully shut down the market but they also know that it's not a smart idea so I don't know what government really do about it right that's their dilemma so let me close with a question that people asked many different versions of this but basically it comes to this about your life here in the United States what sort of has what what was sort of the most difficult in some ways but the experience that you had in making the transition from life in North Korea being a refugee in China and ending up the United States sure I mean definitely I mean the language and adapting new cultures I mean that's pretty much for all immigrants children goes through Wednesday I come through the states but what really was the typical part for me was I as I at this set of mentioned earlier not knowing what I wanted to do with my life after that the food was provided and trying to learn who I was and trying to identify my dreams and my futures was the really difficult part because I didn't really think about this in daily base before and also I think morally what really makes me difficult is that now I mean I become my body has become not update and used to throw away some leftover like french fries or some food I mean it become in a sense kind of normalcy or norm but knowing that by cognitively I know that it's not right thing to do because I know that even in till this day I mean even today there is still so many North Korean homeless and the people who dream is to actually be able to eat what I I mean you know peel for minutes so I think the combination of that me getting used to throw away a key to be wasteful with food but also knowing that it's not writing to the soils I think that part is something that I have to work on probably well I'm afraid that's all the time we have tonight and there were many many wonderful questions I apologize if I couldn't convey them all on behalf of the world affairs council in the Asia Society I want to ask you to join me in thanking Joseph Kim for sharing a story with us tonight and many thanks of course to you the audience for your questions and I would urge you as a reminder that just to take the opportunity to buy Joseph's book under the same sky which is on sale here tonight courtesy of Books Inc and he'll be available to sign copies on stage and thank you again and good night everybody

Channel: World Affairs

Views: 42,383

Keywords: World, Affairs, Council, Politics (TV Genre), Defection (Film Subject), North Korea (Country), North Korean Defectors, Refugee (Literature Subject), United States Of America (Country), China (Country), Poverty (Film Subject), Hunger (Quotation Subject)

Id: E83ETimDLis

Length: 60min 47sec (3647 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 18 2015