⭕Russell Williams - Police Interrogation - Serial killer (inclusive Documentary)

may 2005 the queen and prince philip in canada [Applause] in command of their flight an officer on his way up in the canadian forces lieutenant colonel russell williams rising through the ranks if not a household name yet arrested russell williams 46 of tweed for first degree murder russell williams would not be on this past summer's royal visit once the model of a military man is now accused of a bizarre and violent crime spree two counts of first-degree murder two brutal sexual assault 82 break enter and theft related charges tonight the story as you haven't heard it told before from the victims i have bad dreams nightmares but and i can't stay along very well the commanding officer how could we have missed this is there something that we did or didn't do that would have given us a clue his longtime friend i heard the name williams i heard murder charge it felt like someone had kicked me in the groin as hard as it could a couple of times i vomited i just couldn't believe it i still can't believe it hello i'm bob mckeon welcome to a new season of the fifth estate colonel russell williams seemed the embodiment of the military ideals of duty and honor pilot for prime ministers and royalty commander of the secret canadian base in the persian gulf and in 2009 appointed commanding officer of canada's biggest most important air force base here in trenton ontario russell williams fall from grace is a frightening reminder of the unpredictability of human behavior we should remind you that none of the charges against him have yet been proven in court this is what we have discovered it started under the radar under cover of darkness with a mysterious person stalking the ottawa suburb of orleans and a series of break-ins like the one that took place in january 2009 a family returned from a trip to toronto as their teenage girl unpacked she noticed something strange my daughter came running down the stairs telling us that all her underwear were gone out of her drawer and we kind of laughed and said check the floor because you know how teenagers are or check the laundry or whatever she said no i'm serious there's nothing left in my drawer brenda constantine and her husband brian rogers wouldn't laugh for long when their daughter discovered what else was missing she went back up and she realized there were dresses gone there were shoes gone all her bathing suits photographs of herself had gone someone had gone through their family albums selecting pictures of their 15 year old daughter and police found something even more disturbing they did tell us that they took some dna evidence from my daughter's bedroom from her bureau where the underwear drawer around that area they warned us to wash it with please clean everything and of course my daughter didn't sleep in her bedroom for three months after that for brenda and brian the crime was both bizarre and terrifying someone was targeting their 15 year old we wouldn't let her go anywhere or do anything alone she wasn't allowed to stay home alone her brothers basically were her bodyguards for the day and and us and we had friends looking out for her as well orleans ontario is a bedroom community for the nation's capital home to many members of the military and their families at the time they included russell williams and his wife on the fast track in the forces lieutenant colonel williams had been commander of canada's air transport squadron a key job at a time of war the commanding officer of canada's air force was then lieutenant general angus watt now retired the general says that even under the constant scrutiny and devaluation of military life williams was one of the best and brightest unusually calm very logical very rational and able to produce good quality staff work in a fairly short time which is a valued commodity in ottawa but in russell williams neighborhood in the suburb of orleans the mood was far from calm you know i remember talking to friends of that and and some of them would be really spooked and some others would you know take with a grain of salt almost but you know the ones that were really spooked were really spooked during 2008 and 2009 there were 34 similar break-ins and attempted break-ins in the area resulting in the theft of hundreds of intimate female garments all from homes not far from the house lieutenant colonel williams lived ottawa police warned residents to be vigilant they called the incidents very peculiar in nature the search for a suspect was on at that same time another search was underway to fill one of the key positions in canada's air force commanding officer at cfb trenton lieutenant general angus wadd eventually signed off on the successful candidate russell williams you have to be good with people in other words you have to be a good leader you have to be good with administration you have to be good with the media and good with the public it all has to come together in a in a package that gives us confidence that you will do well as a wing commander and russ had all that package when canada is at war nowhere is it more evident than the base at trenton it's here that soldiers take their final steps on home soil before shipping out to afghanistan and where heroes return four thousand men and women are assigned to trenton the job of base command is a crucial one in a ceremony in july 2009 now colonel russell williams was sworn in as the new commanding officer as wing commander williams had living accommodations on the base but he also owned a cottage in tweed ontario about a half hour's drive north along highway 37 a quiet little town it was about to get a lot better known for the wrong reasons because some strange soon-to-become terrible things were happening not far from cfb trenton when we return the russell williams his neighbors saw i thought that he was kind of a kind of a loner because he never really had any friends there to talk to speak of and the man who may know him best and he wasn't just some average person that was in my life i mean we were very close ontario population 5200 about midway between toronto and ottawa a friendly town especially on canada day the kind of place where everyone seems to know everyone else [Music] colonel russell williams had owned this cottage and tweet for five years before he took command of the trenton air base in july 2009 his street cozy cove lane is as it sounds an idyllic lakefront location where no one locked their doors at least not then williams next door neighbor was lifelong resident larry jones pretty well every day he'd be here off and on and and going and coming all hours you never know because he's a very busy man and he had a big job to do william's wife mary elizabeth worked in ottawa and usually stayed at their house in orleans jones says the colonel was often at the cottage alone kind of a loner because he never really had any friends there to talk to speak of maybe twice a year you'd have some friends there one of william's visitors at cozy cove was jeff farquhar i remember being there when he had first bought it i think the deal was just barely done and he called me to come out and take a look and gave me a tour of the place and he was really excited to have a cottage they'd known each other since 1982 when the bearded 18 year old russell williams was in his first year at the university of toronto's scarborough campus jeff farquhar was assigned as his dorm mate it was a rocky start for example in the residence we were there were six of us and he assigned tasks for us all uh two two guys would be responsible for groceries two more would be for cleanup of dinners and and so on and uh i remember looking at him thinking who is this you know who is this person william's nickname was the drill sergeant sarge for short he was also the resident's prankster pulling practical jokes that involved stealth surprise and opening locked doors he would spend hours hiding in a roommate's closet a trend that caught on and then when the roommate came in sat down and started working on his desk uh we would jump out and scream you know and scare the jabras out of the uh the roommate so it got to uh to be a regular thing and okay maybe russ did start this but again i don't read any dirk into that jeff farquhar says his best friend shared little about his background a child of divorce at boarding school and in college williams rarely saw his family usually spending weekends and vacations in residence often alone as for a love life farquaar remembers him having just one girlfriend in college then a bad breakup it was a tough one on him for sure i hadn't seen him that hurt ever in his life and i'm not sure the time frame exactly but maybe from age 20 on i hadn't known him to have any girlfriends age 22 what oh let's see 30. yeah so probably roughly a 10-year period in there i would think afterwards that relationship was off-limits even to his closest pal it wasn't an open subject and just like his parents divorce or whatever the situation was with his family i wasn't going to poke in pride and pull out a scab you know that's not something you want to do to any of your friends but there was something russell williams didn't keep to himself though he had studied economics for four years he suddenly announced he wanted to join the air force a good student graduated and right after that he said i think i want to be a pilot and i said what the heck did you do all this for you know where's that coming from apparently at least in part from this tom cruise in the hit movie top gun i feel the need the need for speed and actually i was a little bit concerned because he was taking it way over the top in what way i i really thought he was uh trying to live that and so did a couple of us that knew russ pretty well and i thought gee he's really lost in a fantasy world here because he had just had the recent nasty breakup um and i kept thinking to myself oh no now he's going to be a jet fighter and he's going to win the girl back in the years to come williams would make his fantasy reality becoming one of canada's top pilots not flying fighters but transport planes to war zones and natural disasters and jets carrying prime ministers and other vips across the country and around the world through it all williams was the friend jeff farquhar had known since college enthusiastic trumpet player amateur photographer mc at his wedding good evening my name is ross williams and it's my pleasure and honor to welcome you on behalf of jeff and jody but there was much his pal still didn't share like news of his impending marriage it was a complete shock i mean i was excited for him but he hadn't been dating from university days say from second year maybe on they've now been married almost 20 years farquhar says he thought the match with mary elizabeth harriman now a charity executive was a good one but with her in ottawa and him at the base in trenton it was often a long-distance relationship and i can't tell you exactly what year was that he said well now i'm a trenton and i'm actually staying at cozy cove quite a bit rather than commuting all the way back to ottawa and mary liz is coming out on weekends or i can go to ottawa on weekends it was on a weekend in the fall of 2007 that a series of unusual break-ins began to unfold in and around tweed russell williams was at his cottage neighbor larry jones was at home next door when he got a frantic phone call from his daughter who lived nearby she'd come home from a party to surprise an intruder in jogging clothes christine opened the door to go from the garage into the house and saw this long tall figure uh run past the door on the deck jumped over the fence and run off in the bush she thought it was just one of the neighborhood kids and nothing seemed to be missing it would be years before the police told her something different [Music] in fact it would be years until anyone put it together that beginning in 2007 according to court documents when russell williams was at his cottage in tweed a multitude of bizarre break-ins would follow women's lingerie and underwear stolen almost all in his own neighborhood especially on cozy cove lane it was the same pattern as the break-ins near ottawa in orleans theft sometimes so well executed they weren't even noticed when he took command at trenton the demands on williams increased now responsible for thousands of military men and women and often in the public eye but following his promotion in july 2009 according to police records the frequency of the break-ins increased too there were 10 more in his first two months as wing commander [Music] and all the while colonel williams performed his official duties golfing with hockey great johnny bauer to raise money for military families appearing at a charity drive to send gift boxes to soldiers abroad cementing community relations inviting local officials on a flight to the far north the colonel returned from the arctic on september 16 2009 and according to the police criminal activity in tweed was about to take a brutal turn early on september 17th a young mother was asleep near her eight-week-old baby she said that about one in the morning a male intruder invaded her house sexually assaulted her took photographs and left about 3 am that same day while police investigated the assault colonel williams was at the base presiding over an attempt to set a guinness world record for pulling an airplane on the trenton tarmac the next night there was another break-in undetected at the time incredibly at the same house where the sexual assault had taken place a pattern of returning to the scene of the crime that would be repeated the following day at the arena in belleville colonel williams took part in the opening of the junior hockey season yes i think i'll have the opportunity to uh to drop the puck at the at the beginning it's our ceremonial dropping of the puck early on the week after that there was a third break-in at the scene of the sexual assault the same day that williams welcomed defense minister peter mckay to cfp trenton and according to the charges against williams at the end of september 2009 that pattern of criminal activity and tweed would become even more extreme that final week of the month there were two more break-ins at a house not far from williams cottage then there was a third break-in at that very same house a woman was at home alone when she was surprised by a male intruder she said he blindfolded tied her up cut off her clothes choked beat sexually assaulted and photographed for two and a half hours when she asked if he were going to kill her she says his answer was no need for that she told police she thought she'd heard his voice before but couldn't identify it because both sexual assault victims are subject to a publication ban we won't reveal their names according to larry jones the day after the second sexual assault the ontario provincial police blanketed cozy cove lane knocked on the door and if they weren't home they'd come back the following day and have follow-up when they got to russell williams door there was no answer the officer moved on to the jones house he said who lives next door i said russ williams commanding officer for cfb trenton and he says well i guess no sense of looking at that guy then just like that eh howard gray and anne marsan cook have homes just a few kilometers away on highway 37. but we knew about it shortly after um shortly after it happened because things are fast odor on here and the word in tweed was that the two sexual assaults must have been done by one person there's a guy who's out there for women i mean i knew that it kind of been no you know no two guys doing the same kind of things no it had to be there it had to be for me there was a connection definitely and before long the police apparently thought they had their man a resident of tweed in fact of cozy cove lane russell williams next door neighbor larry jones came home one day to find his house overrun by the opp swat team i said you're saying that i'm a suspect well yes you are our suspect i said you got to be kidding i said you should be looking in the right direction i said this is the wrong direction it's unreal unbelievable remember the second sexual assault victim thought she had recognized the voice of her attacker for some reason she guessed it was the voice of larry jones jones says it took a three and a half hour interrogation fingerprints dna a more than three hour polygraph exam and weeks of follow-up before the police finally told him he wasn't their man but by then for many people in tweed it was too late well after i was taken away and the neighbors saw me get in the police car well right away larry jones it's the guy on cozy cove he's the one that actually saw those swimming down the road so i was guilty right there in everybody's eyes after the break what happened on anne martin cook's birthday i heard my name being called the type of tone of voice i'd never heard before and the message left behind and what went through your mind by then i knew somebody was really out there for me i mean i knew that on the road from tweed to belleville there's a 150 year old farmhouse the woman who lives here happens to teach music at the trenton air base it was a late afternoon in mid-november her birthday when anne martin cook arrived home to get ready for her party at a friend's place nearby so i was kind of looking forward and hurrying up to go she was alone in the house she thought she rushed upstairs to change what i remember i went to the bedroom and and as i went to my dresser to to get you know change of clothes i noticed that my the the bedside drawers the little tables by the bed the drawers were open not only were the drawers open but some personal items kept there were missing her sex toys dildos as she calls them she immediately thought someone in the family was playing a joke it's a bit of a laugh really yeah we were we're having some laughs what kind of what kind of yahoo would come in and do that when her neighbor howard gray arrived to pick her up they debated calling 9-1-1 and put the question to me should i phone the police and i said no because they won't even put ink to the paper although and i remember saying i said all they'll do is they'll use us as a good laughter at coffee break yes because of what it was that it was missing that's right yes right and i said there's no use doing it because they wouldn't even begin to take it seriously so so she i then i told her get your stuff you're not staying alone here tonight and we came downstairs we went around we checked all the doors and oh we went the last thing they did was double check that the kitchen door was dead bolted from the inside the following morning after the party gray drove marissa cook home again she went up to her office to photocopy something before work what he heard next was her screen there's the type of voice where you react immediately that something's wrong you just immediately react dashing upstairs he found her speechless trembling and she was just inside the um inside the the door of the office about two paces in holding their hands like this looking at the screen it was the screen of an old computer that was rarely used it had been turned on the screen saver disabled and replaced by a chilling message in large letters it said go ahead call the police i want to show the judge your really big dildos honestly is the first time i ever think i ever had the hair stand up on the back of my neck because it was right out of hollywood it was right out of hollywood then marsana cook checked her bedroom and then that's when i saw that my drawers my underwear drawers my two drawers were both open and empty and that's when i lost it i lost it yeah she said i screamed really big scream that first big scream came when she opened up her the one drawer and then she shaken she opened up the other door and then the other big and then she she was a wreck then a wreck because she realized then that someone must have been in the house when she was the night before someone would come for her who'd hidden in the closet then type that message unlock the kitchen deadbolt and left and what went through your mind by then i knew somebody was really out there for me i mean i knew that now but he was angry to leave that message i mean i know he he wanted he wanted to do just something more than just stealing my dildos in my underwear to leave a message like that she also was convinced it was in some way related to the sexual assaults in tweed but marsana cook's house is located within the city limits of belleville so the break-in was investigated by the belleville police i can't remember either ann or myself question the the guys is this connected to the tweed why what's going on back a tweet and i said well you gotta know what's happening back at tweed but they admitted to you they weren't aware of that because see we're on belleville and that's opp back at tweed when anne martin cook realized there'd been a failure to communicate she started telling everyone she could what had happened to her i spread the messages now for to all the women in the area and where i work on the base and you know just lock your doors lock your doors lock your doors you know like there's a guy out there but the warnings wouldn't be enough for a 38 year old corporal at cfb trenton who lived in brighton ontario about 30 kilometers from the base marie france como may have been military but she was also a free spirit according to former boyfriend and confidante plant insider she was an artist a bohemian in love with life in general curiosity was one of the big things she she she wanted to discover the world she wanted to taste every meal that was available on the planet she had the right job for that as a military flight attendant in fact corporal como had recently been a crew member on the aircraft carrying prime minister stephen harper on a state visit to the far east alain plant spoke with her when she got back she flew from trenton over the pacific to go to japan and from there when they came back they flew over the atlantic so she went around the world and i don't know many people who did that so it was i was curious and happy for her but because her dream was coming true three days later on november the 25th her body was discovered inside her house the cause of death was asphyxiation first described a suspected suicide then reclassified as murder like so much else here the full story would take time to come out back in trenton the same day that marie frascomo's body was found colonel russell williams was being handcuffed and arrested laughing as part of a publicity stunt for the local united way fundraising campaign later officially informed of como's death he wrote a letter of condolence to her family saying please let me know whether there is anything i can do to help you during this very difficult time he didn't attend the funeral in the months to come williams had his usual full schedule of events the olympic torch relay holiday parties consulting on relief operations with the defense minister and chief of defense staff after the haitian earthquake always the consummate officer when we come back the crucial clue that led to russell williams said i had a sugarcoat on my spine i said yeah i did too and uh like you know something's not right here whenever colonel russell williams would drive from cfb trenton to his cottage in tweed ontario he went right past the house where a 27 year old woman lived on her own her name was jessica lloyd her brother andy describes his sister as friendly and vivacious just very very witty very outgoing even people she didn't know friends of mine she just made she'd be best friends with him within half an hour yeah it was very outgoing very very funny on january 28 2010 jessica lloyd came home from an evening out she sent a final text message to a friend before calling it a night it was said night night i believe it was it was just kind of saying that was it and assumed she was on her way to bed because it was 10 30 and she had to work at you know eight o'clock in the morning yeah so that was the last anybody heard from it was a text message it was that same night about three a.m that two local men drove south on highway 37 headed to belleville to pick up a load in their truck they didn't know it yet but they too went right past jessica lloyd's house what was about to happen may well be the single most important event in this whole tragic story it was frigid with a full moon lyle barker was in the passenger seat struggling to stay awake i was just more or less looking to see you know if i could see a wolf or something like i'm a wildlife buffet so i i'm always looking and even when i'm driving i'm unlucky but you know i was just looking to see if there's anything out poking around eh and just happened to see the vehicle what he saw was an suv parked in a field some distance both from the road and from the nearest house it was very odd because you never see anything like that at that time of year you know it just didn't seem right like it was shouldn't have been there that's what my cousin said like no we had a he said i had a sugarcoat on my spine i said yeah i did too and uh like you know something's not right here lyle barker and his cousin kept driving it would be a while before they understood exactly what they'd seen later that day andy lloyd got a phone call from his mother jessica had never arrived at work and he went right to her house that's what was so weird is because everything was there you know which why we couldn't figure out what had happened because all of her identification and i mean her cell phone and her purse and things people don't leave home without were there as the following days unfolded pictures of jessica were everywhere there was a massive search with a police helicopter and the search and rescue team from cfp trenton but something had been missing authorities hadn't drawn a specific link to the sexual assaults in tweed nor to the murder of marie francomo two months earlier or the break-in on anne martin cook's birthday back then there was still no connection they didn't know about my case and i'm sure they didn't think about the three girls either they were just looking for a missing girl after lyle barker and his cousin returned from their trucking job they saw jessica lloyd's face and all those missing posters when they noticed police vehicles around the house on highway 37 they put it together it was the house next to the field where barker had seen the suv parked in the middle of the night the house from which jessica lloyd had disappeared that's when lyle went to the police when they reached the field the weather was still frigid it hadn't snowed since and there were tire tracks preserved by the cold exactly where barker said they would the opp set up roadblocks checking the tires of cars on highway 37 a week to the day after jessica lloyd vanished thursday february 4th one of those they stopped was colonel russell williams driving an suv they checked his tires then let him go unbeknownst to williams he was under police surveillance from then on [Music] jessica lloyd's disappearance not only heightened anxiety and tweed but also suspicion about larry jones jones says it reminded him of something odd that had happened a few months earlier he was going hunting when his usually aloof neighbor made a beeline towards him and he walks across his lawn hey larry what's going on today i says oh just go on parties on russ oh and where do you have partridge hunt i said well you know where the golf course is yeah i said well that's east hunger for road i said just go there pass kerry road and that's where home camp is oh really well anyway i just head to work i'll see you later take care as you'll see he would learn later what that conversation really meant on sunday february 7th russell williams was at his new house in ottawa when the opp called asking him to the ottawa police department to answer questions it's been reported he thought they were going to ask about larry jones instead williams was informed the distinctive tires of his suv matched the tracks in the field next to jessica lloyd's house during a nine hour interrogation he cooperated with police investigators gave the sad news to the lloyd family they didn't say what they thought had happened just basically that she was gone and they had somebody in custody the next morning williams directed police to the body the lloyds had to wait until the news conference to learn who it was who had been charged with jessica's murder colonel russell williams is the eighth wing commander of cfb trenton and that's also when william's neighbor larry jones heard where police had found the body the body of jessica lloyd was located this morning off carrie road in the municipality of tweed it was the very location jones had described to russell williams his favorite hunting rounds now did you put two and two together when you learned where that was there's lots of roads way back in the boonies that you could put a body on and nobody'd ever find her but no he had to pick the road that goes to my hunt camp and i said well jesus what's going on there i wonder it sounds like he's trying to set me up eh at their news conference police revealed they'd found the crucial tire track but not that it was lyle barker who told them where to look then barker got a phone call i received an anonymous call that my tip had caught him it was worth its weight in gold larry jones has no doubt that if not for barker's vigilance he might well be the one behind bars and russell williams wouldn't like the man thought you're never going to get caught until he left those terror tracks before behind jessica lloyd's house which was a real godsend for me if he hadn't been caught i'd been in jail now sure a top-ranking military officer was charged today with some very grave crimes william's arrest hit like a bombshell i was at a funeral of an air force officer here in ottawa and some of my air force colleagues who are still in uniform said russ williams has been arrested for murder and of course my reaction was one of shock and dismay like everybody else retired lieutenant general angus watt had promoted williams to commanding officer trenton how could we have missed this is there something that we did or didn't do that would have given us a clue and everything i've heard and everything i've seen and everybody i've talked to has the same reaction there was no clue with the exception of russell williams wife who has not spoken publicly since it's possible no one took it harder than his friend jeff farquhar i'll never forget that day of course um i heard the five o'clock news and uh i heard the name williams i heard murder charge and then i heard cozy cove and uh what what and i jumped up and i immediately turned on the tv and uh right there on the news was russ's face his pictures were all over and i'm telling you it it hit me like [Music] it hit everyone but this is your best friend for a quarter of a century it it's impossible to imagine no sorry let's just uh react to that i mean it made me physically alter my stomach it felt like someone had kicked me in the groin as hard as it could a couple of times i vomited i i just couldn't believe it i still can't believe it farquhar says he decided to speak out after realizing he may never get the answers to the questions he needs to ask his friend foremost among them why obviously i can't even imagine what the the families of those victims are going through but i just it doesn't add up in any way to the person that i've come to know and respect and he wasn't just some average person that was in my life i mean we were very close and for it all to end with some heinous crimes i just don't get and i keep thinking there had to be something terribly wrong has happened to russ in those last years that i've produced this because i can't believe for a minute that he was a bad seed but how to explain all the awful details in addition to the murders and sexual assaults williams is accused of search warrants obtained by police for williams homes in tweed in ottawa led to boxes and boxes of female apparel not just bras and panties but bathing suits robes even shoes as well as photographs of some of the young girls and women who owned them all apparently painstakingly stored and cataloged in a notebook reporting when and where they were stolen it's how the police were able to tell brian rogers and brenda constantine larry jones daughter christine and marsana cook and all the others that it was russell williams who'd invaded their homes for many like marasana cook it's had a lingering cost and locked doors and lost trust i have bad dreams nightmares but and i can't stay along very well but i can't imagine the other girls i mean jessica she's dead in some ways i feel sorry for the poor girls in tweed and that's why i want him dead she believes if police forces had better informed residents about everything that happened jessica lloyd might have been on guard and perhaps survive nothing was said about anything and and jessica wasn't part of my you know she was a younger a younger woman she wasn't part of my my surrounding women friends or friends of friends so i mean i just feel sorry that that maybe maybe she would be still alive there's no consolation and no end in sight for those left behind like marie frascomo's friend elaine plant her presence are present beside me or just being involved to touch her i miss that as for russell williams he's in solitary confinement at the detention center in napanee ontario at one point under a suicide watch after reportedly trying to kill himself by stuffing a cardboard toilet roll down his throat guards got to him in time i have talked to some people who through other intermediaries have talked to him and and the feedback i got was immediately after the arrest his psychological condition was was very poor his entire world had been blown up by him by him yeah no doubt about it he had blown up his entire world and that went right through until his suicide attempt and after a suicide attempt the word i heard is that he's reconciled himself to the situation and understands his fate for retired lieutenant general angus watt and so many others in uniform and out the judgment of colonel russell williams will undoubtedly be harsh and this is a huge betrayal a huge betrayal of the profession a huge betrayal of the honor of the military and we take this very personally the people that have that knew russ williams that shepherd him along in his career that helped him at key points that selected him as i did for senior leadership positions view this as in the ultimate betrayal of that honor and we will never forgive him all right you just have to see harrison guy was speaking with me whatever night that was was russ as well oh yeah took every number i had yeah now they were doing some pretty thorough interviews that night yeah absolutely i'm just gonna move your gloves here that's a little microphone just to make sure there's nice and clear um as you can see here everything in this room is videotaped and audio taped check uh you've been interviewed by the police in a in a room like this before i've never been in here oh no okay let's get this set up there i guess the closest to interview by nis for top secret clearance oh yeah all right well again russell i appreciate you coming in an investigation like this i mean i'm sure you can appreciate it's been big news uh especially down in belleville way um and you know obviously our approach to cases like this is that uh we don't give up on somebody being alive until we get evidence that they're not so because of that we're treating uh jessica's case as an emergent situation obviously um so we're fast forwarding things that we might normally take our time with and that's why we're here on a sunday afternoon so uh again i appreciate it um we're gonna do a pretty thorough interview today okay um and the reason for that is because uh the last thing we want is to be calling people back again and again and again okay um so what we're going to do is we're going to go over a number of things and uh i'm going to explain what all those are to you okay um i'm a big coffee guy i don't know if you're a coffee guy or not but i didn't want to drink in front of you so no i appreciate that all right go ahead i could uh definitely are they black yeah they're just black with uh with sugar um probably a little bit started your what's right gum just all okay well there's nothing there if you want to toss it over i appreciate that all right and again um like i said this interview is going to be very thorough um but again uh i have a simple rule when i talk to people it's uh i'm sure you're the same way i treat everybody with respect i don't know why i ask you to do the same for me um so what we're going to do is we're going to start off by uh going through what your rights are okay just like everybody else okay um have you ever read your rights before no yeah i'm sure you've seen on tv a whole bunch of times but that's usually the american version so i'll go over with you briefly okay um basically in canada uh as you know i'm sure is uh we all have uh our rights guaranteed under the charter of rights and freedoms okay now uh russell just to avoid any confusion because people do get confused when they're talked to by the police is that you're obviously not under arrest here today okay anytime you feel uh you want to leave here you feel free to do so the door's not locked teresa will walk you down the lobby anytime you want okay um if there's anything that comes up in our interview today russell that that you feel you want to talk to a lawyer about um you just you just let me know okay and the reason for that is i want to explain to you exactly what's going on here okay um jessica lloyd is um is one of four cases that we're currently investigating okay um and essentially what's happened is over the past uh uh about four or five months there have been four occurrences that like i said that we're looking into uh two of those occurrences occurred in september of 2009 um and very briefly they were up in the uh the tweet area uh they involved uh somebody entering uh two different women's houses um in the evening hours and uh committing sexual acts okay uh in uh november of 2009 a young lady by the name of marie franz cuomo yep was found uh murdered in her home and right yeah and uh we believe that there was a sexual uh component to that crime as well and um then most recently we have jessica lloyd's disappearance okay so essentially when you look at those kind of crimes we're looking at a number of different potential criminal charges right we're looking at issues uh all the way from the most serious one which is first-degree murder uh kidnapping sexual assault break and enter with intent to commit sexual assault yeah um forcible confinement okay and uh so what i want to make sure you understand and we'll be doing with everybody been talking to is that clearly when we find out who's responsible for one or all of those crimes uh they could be charged with one or all of those offenses okay whether it's you or whether it's anybody else right and that's why it's important that we make sure that people understand what they have to do and what they don't have to do when they're talking to us okay so as i said before any point today you feel the need you want to speak to a lawyer you let me know and we can take you to a room where you can do that in private okay okay um do you have your own lawyer i have a realty lawyer but okay i don't have a lawyer all right if at any point you want to make that call and you don't know who to call we have a phone list of lawyers that are available to give you advice free of charge right over the phone okay so again if any point today you want to take advantage of that you just let me know sure um is there any reason you want to call lawyer now no okay a couple other fairly simple and straightforward things that you probably understand but again we go over them to make sure everybody's clear is that uh you don't have to speak to me today okay and the reason for that is because the law considers me to be what we refer to as a person of authority okay probably similar to what you may be considered to be on the base and because of that i can be compelled to appear before any judge in the country basically to account for what takes place here today between you and i okay and that's the reason why everything's recorded because there can't be any more accurate record than that right so um and the other thing i want to make sure you understand is that uh you know you mentioned a second ago about miss cuomo um being one of your work associates so i don't know what's happened since november on the military side of things but what we want to make people clear on is that if you have been spoken to by any person authority or any police officer about any of those cases i don't want what they may have said to you to make you feel influenced or compelled to say anything to me today okay whatever you might have felt influenced or compelled to say to them earlier you don't have to repeat it to me and you don't have to say anything further okay but obviously what you do say you know for the third time is being recorded right so i understood these first two attacks i happened uh not that far from my place into evil the second one did yeah we didn't even know the first one had happened but uh i understand that was reasonably close as well but the second one was uh it was very close yeah so certainly at the time jpp did a uh my door-to-door yeah and uh within a couple of days probably the same night so i spoke with a couple guys then okay um yeah and i'm aware of that from looking at the different cases and essentially uh russell uh in a nutshell that's what we wanted to uh to talk to you about okay uh those four cases are of concern to us and um you know you've kind of uh almost hit the nail on the head about some of our issues that kind of uh make us want to talk to to russell williams okay um because essentially uh there's a a connection um between you and uh and all four of those cases would you agree geography yeah yeah i drive past uh yes i would have to say there's a connection here yeah and that's what that's why um i'll be quite frank with you that's why uh things kind of um uh evolved when the officers talked to you on thursday night okay uh we kind of went from there because uh when i think you discussed with the fact that you were a uh a colonel at the base i was in uniform at the time so yeah so pretty obvious right um so essentially uh then the connection with miss cuomo um was made and i believe you're uh a door or two down from one of those two uh incidents uh and tweeted three doors down yeah yeah very close absolutely yeah exactly so uh those are some of the issues we wanted to discuss with you yeah okay um so just getting back to uh these four incidents that we're talking about maybe you could just give me a little bit of history as to your arrival in the uh in the base in trenton when did you start working there friday on the day i was um hmm friday on the day i was at home most of the time most of the day i had a start of a stomach flu okay in ottawa or tweet tweet and tweet okay uh so we backtrack then so all day friday you're at home yeah and then what time do you leave to go to the base to sleep there on the friday night um i'm not sure probably just you know went in for just before bed so probably that tweeted between 8 and nine or so okay um and you get to the base and spend the evening there and get up for the 5 30. yeah okay that's right so we backtracked from there um you when did you arrive at your home uh at the cottage i wonder i want to get confused between your home in ottawa in the home so i have been in tweed all week yep uh the week prior now um yeah i think that's the case he's in tweet all week flew saturday headed to ottawa saturday night okay so um if you didn't have the stomach flu on the friday what was your schedule okay um what would have been my schedule just a standard schedule in the office okay so uh office briefing in the morning a couple of uh a couple of meetings i can't remember what the specifics were going to be okay so um thursday night you slept at tweet or you yeah all right and what did you thursday during the day thursday during the day i was at the base again um i think it was a fairly standard day i can't recall exactly but yeah nothing was not flying so i was at the base so i would have gone in early in the morning back in the evening again okay do you remember what time you left the base at me um i don't remember anything peculiar so i would say uh i don't know probably seven to nine somewhere in that range okay that's when you you left left the base yeah and what it was a 45 minute transit 45 minutes home yeah okay okay now i'm not i'm not going to walk you through november but i'm going to take you to a date that's probably pretty fresh in your mind uh uh the day that uh that marie franz uh um do you remember how you found out i do yeah i was sent an email um well as soon as the uh the off staff and the base learned they told me okay so i got an email i can't remember if it was late at night or in the morning but certainly i saw it i want to say first thing in the morning because i had just come back from ottawa i was in ottawa for uh um a set of meetings on one of the days i can't remember what day of the week we're talking about it but uh yeah no i mean obviously one of your people gets killed that gets your attention so absolutely i very much remember that coming and how did you know marie franz cuomo i'd only met her once um she was on a crew i was on uh just after i got to the base okay so uh i can't remember i think it was a one-day trip uh i did a number of trips uh in canada transporting um our you know troops sort of first lake out of edmonton you know we tend to hop scotch them across until they get into theater so and i can't remember which trip it was but we did a number of them out to edmonton just to pick up the troops bring them to trenton and then uh put a fresh crew on and uh because we'd fly over them back in the same day so pushing the edge of that and uh fresh crew on they'd continue on after a couple hour delay okay do you know roughly when that happened though we were on the same crew the time you met the one time there yet it was soon after i got to the base so uh i don't remember exactly but i would say in the first couple of months so august september okay um now you got that email notifying you that something had happened uh do you have any kind of a clear recollection as to how your schedule was going that week well i can't remember what again what day that uh the message came in just a second um no i can't remember what day day of the week but i um i'm just think it was a whole bunch of activity uh spun up as a result obviously i can't remember the day of the week um i'm just trying to think through the news reports i read no i'm sorry i can't remember what day that was but what i what we learned after the fact was that the um the mps had learned of her death i think quite a bit after her body had been discovered okay so i think what happened i'm sorry i'm just saying okay so i think if i remember correctly the mps learned late that evening the camera goes and obviously her body was discovered it was probably in the news reports but uh so they learned and then they passed it to ops that they meet so they immediately passed it to me okay the mps work for the wing operations officer so they go you know through their chain of command and then as soon as the the duty launch officer had that information she advised me okay um so again that that wouldn't definitely work with some others right right i'm sure it's right like wildfire so that particular week do you have any recollection well for instance when you got the email uh yeah do you remember where you were i was at home and tweet okay yeah um do you remember if that was a week that you were reasonably stable in trenton or had you phoned no i had been in ottawa i had been in ottawa earlier in the week uh for some meetings over in gatineau for one of the um especially for the c17 acquisition i was project director and when i was here in just some follow-up stuff for that okay so i had been here um at some point in that week again i can't remember how the days all fell together but um i seem to remember that i got this word shortly after having come back from ottawa seems to me it was the same week so if we were to uh to you know do a similar investigation in your background is there is there anything you can think of that anybody may have misinterpreted or anything uh in your history that somebody might say russell williams uh absolutely did this no okay be very boring what's that it'll be very boring all right because essentially that's what i'm looking at is it uh um you seem like a very intelligent person and i think you can see how um a surprise like that would uh certainly support some alarm bells investigation right okay um so the next thing we need to cover off is uh well i'll just ask you this straight out uh given the types of crimes we're investigating do you get much chance to uh to watch television shows csi things like that i do watch uh i prefer law and order but i do watch csi occasionally yes okay so you have an idea of obviously the forensic capabilities things like that are out there what would you be willing to give me today to help me move past you in this investigation what what do you need well would you be willing to supply things like fingerprints blood samples things like that yeah okay um footwear impressions yeah okay all right um i think that's what we're gonna we're gonna ask you to do okay right now we have a process we have to go through to do that okay um and for the blood sample i don't take the blood sample we have specially trained officers that are trained to do that okay i'm gonna step out and make sure they're still available can i assume you're gonna be discreet it's possible yeah because uh you know this would have a very significant impact on the base if they thought you thought i did this well uh bottom line russell that's one of the reasons we're here on a sunday afternoon uh the uh the military certainly be of great assistance for to us especially in relation to ms cuomo's investigation so uh that's certainly one of the things that went into our decision to to give you a call at home day and see if we could deal with this today okay so okay um because it's tough to undo the rumor mill once it gets started i appreciate that okay now that you've had some time to i mean i know we've been throwing a lot of things at you here but now you've had some time to think about things um is there anything uh that you're concerned about uh that buckle swap matching in any of those four residences um is there i guess let me explain you what i'm getting here russell okay um this is a significant investigation as you can see as you can well imagine that uh that dna is going to be uh significant in our investigation both uh you know quite possibly to help you quite possibly to help us understand i don't know yet don't know the result is yet um and i'll go back to the example i gave you because it's a very similar uh issue i think um and you talked about the idea of discretion here okay uh you talked about the idea that uh um you know you i think hopefully you appreciate the fact of how we approached you here yeah um and essentially uh we have no issues with that okay we talked recently about you know the whole idea of any unusual sex acts of your history but another thing that can often happen in cases like this is that people become concerned about things like extramarital affairs uh indiscretions along those lines is there any contact that you may have had with any of those four women um that you may not want your wife to be aware of anything like that that we should know about to try and uh explain why if if your dna is found it would help us understand why it may be there absolutely not can you think of any reason um why we would find your dna in any other resonances let's focus on well for instance i believe let me just check the name there make sure i've got the right address talking about the house that was just a couple of doors down from you there and uh in tweed a couple of doors down with lori i don't know her last name but i don't know mazzucotti i don't even know what her last name is but uh there's the woman down the road three doors down her name is lori i don't know our last one all right let me just make sure we're on the same page here okay uh my understanding is she lived at the 76 cozy cove yeah so she would be the one the second one uh the second incident on your on your road there yeah a couple of doors ever been in her house no we met her once i think the first summer we were there so i know four okay and that's what i'm getting at i again this is a credibility issue right now because i don't want to come and see you two weeks from now and say you know russ uh yeah our csi people in that house and uh are you familiar with how c uh dna works i think broadly yes um one of the challenges we have in 2010 with dna is it's become so precise that um i guess the best way to explain it is i can think back 15 years ago when i started in in violent crime investigation yeah for us to get a dna match the sample we had to find was um you know probably would have filled half of one of these cups you know because they destroy so much of the the sample in the in the testing essentially dna has become more and more precise to the point where when you and i walked in this room earlier today we could have sat down talked for 30 seconds walked out csi officer could have come in three four days from now yeah did some swabs here and he would have found your dna and my dna and probably a lot of other people's dna sure um a little bit girls to think about but essentially uh you know as we talk um we you know a little bit aspirate comes out of our mouth that uh that contains our dna our blood or our skin cells contain our dna and that's what i'm getting at if you were ever in lori's residence quite possibly quite innocently your dna could be uh in that residence has there ever been a time you've been in there yeah okay um what about the other lady down the road on uh i hadn't even heard that name so no i don't i don't actually know who that was okay have you ever visited uh marie france como at her residence no okay all right um so you're quite positive there'll be no reason why your dna would be any of those three locations okay um did you know jessica lloyd even in passing for any reason no i didn't hear her name till it was on the news okay the reason i'm asking that uh is because i know you were asked that question on thursday night and sometimes what we find and again this is one of those situations that can sometimes cause us to get in a lengthy investigation as somebody that maybe doesn't deserve it but what can happen sometimes is they you know somebody gets stopped by the police like you did and they uh they get asked that question and people when they stop by the police they can be nervous okay um so they blurt out an answer and then they start driving away and they go why'd i do that because the problem is is that once they get asked again then they feel compelled to maintain that answer for fear that if they change their answers somebody could find it you understand what i'm saying i do okay so i want to make sure that's not happening here i don't care what you said to the officers on thursday night last week um if there's any uh communication or contact between you and jessica lloyd you've seen her picture right around town yeah ever seen her before i don't no i would say i have not okay all right all right and you mentioned something about uh doing some renovations at your uh at your property and tweet there um i think you said something earlier about tearing up carpet correct me from wrong but okay when did all that happen in 2004 okay any recent uh renovations no okay all right i just want to make sure i'm covering all the bases here um what kind of tires do you have on your pathfinder i think um i think they're toyo do you know the brand name or sorry the uh um i don't know sorry the make is toyo yeah i don't know the model okay see all right read this up here see if it rings a bell ever heard of uh does toyo open country hts that's making sense okay when did you have those tires put on your pathfinder well it's the second version we've had of them so uh i think it might have been this past fall they replaced other ones we've had on the same okay well toyo i can't say that they were the same exactly the same model but uh our dealership here in ottawa says they're very popular for the pathfinders okay they were good they lasted a long time all right um i've had to i think you were talking about the the whole idea of the mps uh helping us with their investigation our investigations you have the same system as we do at our headquarters with the swipe cards um one of the things uh one of our investigators is they made a call while i was talking to you there because we were trying to work through that week of the the 23rd of november okay 23rd being the monday uh 24th being the tuesday um what what they've what they've told us is that um and i want to make sure you get this right is that uh on the 23rd uh your swipe card was being used at the base okay okay uh on tuesday 24th there was no use of your swipe card okay and then on the uh the following days uh wednesday thursday friday um there was what appeared to be average activity of your swipe from the base does that make sense to you it does that that says that i was in ottawa on the tuesday okay do you remember where in ottawa you were yeah i was in gatineau with uh as i said meeting about the uh c-17 okay um now again i want to be fair to you here we're going back two months um are you sure that would have been the uh the day you were in ottawa well only because i wasn't at the base okay so i i can't remember honestly that that's the day i had the meeting in ottawa but uh if i wasn't at the base it was because i was here okay now if that is the day you had a meeting in ottawa um do you remember being at the base on the monday uh the 23rd and swiping your card in and out do you remember what you would have done that evening to to get to ottawa for that meeting like would it be uh i drove to ottawa in the morning of the day of my meeting so if it was the tuesday then i would have left a tweet it was a very foggy morning okay uh that morning and i drove in that morning okay so i would not have been at the base uh the day i was in iowa because the meeting started at 8 30 or something okay so you leave the base you would have went home to to your residence and tweet and then you left tweet in the morning and drove up your meeting in ottawa yeah okay you leave the the meeting in ottawa is a daytime meeting evening meeting or do you remember uh yeah it was a daytime meeting finished i don't know mid-afternoon or so okay we had lunch and then finished i think my wife and i had dinner because she was here for work and then i had it done okay um well that's these are the kind of things i'm trying to draw out here that's helpful to us um do you remember where you had dinner uh well i don't remember exactly the restaurant but it was in westboro because that's where our house was being built at the time so we had dinner you know in a restaurant that we would expect to be able to frequent once the house was finished okay remember how you paid one of us would have paid by mastercard okay are you sure about that or pretty sure that's normally how we uh okay we pay for meals all right i remember it was me or my wife that paid that one of us okay and you remember which restaurant it was again no okay all right and you see what i'm getting at right i mean that can be very helpful for us because if we can track uh that issue right uh we can we can put somebody paying for a meal at a out of location i was meeting with uh you know 15 people or so that day so okay what time did the meeting end i would say between three and four okay and um are you sure that that's the same day you went out with your wife well i think so yeah because she was here and uh i think that was the day we went to this restaurant in west various okay um you finished dinner and do you remember what you did that evening okay and you would have now again i i know we're talking two months ago here but do you remember specifically having dinner and then driving back to tweed or uh do you remember are you just guessing here no i'm not really guessing i mean i i believe that this night at this restaurant was following the meetings in ottawa and i you know kissed my wife goodbye and headed back to tweet to go to work the next day okay um all right the uh the tires that you have on your truck right the reason i asked you about that is there is there any time i mean you recall uh where you were stopped um by the officers there yes right did they explain to you what the significance of that was your house that was her house right so you remember that location yeah do you remember what the crossroad was or i don't think there was a crossroad it's sort of just the south end of 37. okay um when you get stopped at that location has there been a time in the recent one or two weeks that your vehicle has left that role for any reason whatsoever have you driven into a field with your vehicle at all for any reason you can think of no okay um because i want you to rack your brain here this is important so yeah is there anything you can remember doing that uh you know what caused you to to uh drive off the road at that section of roadway no that's my early uh that's the early part of the highway and i'm just head north it's about 30 minutes from there to uh probably 20 from there to my house okay would it surprise you to know that when the csi officers were looking around her property that they identified a set of tire tracks to the north of her property looks as if the vehicle left the road and drove along the north tree line of jessica lloyd's property okay they took uh they examined those tire tracks and uh they have contacts in the tire business obviously tire tracks are a major source of evidence for us sure um shortly after um this investigation started they identified those tires as the same tires on your pathfinder really yeah okay okay one of the other uh one of the other things that they do to try and identify the type of vehicle that we have left those tires well is they do two things they they talk to witnesses okay um there was a female police officer that actually drove by that location uh that evening and recalls seeing an suv type vehicle in the field to the north of jessica lloyd's house uh consistent with a pathfinder okay it may be consistent with other things because there's a little fire um and the uh what they also do to try and identify the type of the vehicle is they look at uh what they call the wheel base width okay because different vehicles different mix models have wheelbase width so they can take those two sets of tire tracks measure the distance between them okay and determine what the uh the width is sure and then they can enter that into a vehicle database and it will spit out the types of vehicles okay your pathfinder's wheelbase width is very very close to the width of the of the tires uh that were left in that field okay um do you have any recollection at all of being off that road i was not off the road okay all right russell um is there anything you can think of let's go talk about marie franz cuomo for a minute okay is there any reason at all you can think of that during our investigation obviously we're searching uh computers uh things like blackberries right electronic devices uh looking through houses for things that are in handwriting written notes diaries things like that now i'm not a liberty to tell you what the content was but is there any reason at all you can think of why marie france como would have specifically referenced you in some of her uh some of her writings not at all no no absolutely okay is there anything that she ever said to you that led you to believe that there might be something more than a passing interest with her towards you i don't know no we spent you know one flight together talking i'd go back to occasionally and talk no i if that's the case that's it that's very surprising okay all right um you have any questions for me right now no okay i'm just gonna step out and see how things are going okay i mean it is a sunday but there's probably 60 70 people working on this file so there's a lot of things happening sure uh so let me go out and see what's happening and then i'll i'll come back in and we'll hopefully continue okay i told you when i came in here uh that i'm gonna treat you with respect and i've asked you to do the same for me um we talked about the whole idea of how we've uh approached you here okay uh the trying to be as just read as possible okay but the problem is russell is every time i walk out of this room there's another issue that comes up okay and it's not issues that point away from you it's issues that point at you okay and i wanna i want you to see what i mean all right this is the footwear impression of the person who approached the rear of jessica lloyd's house on the evening of the 28th and 29th of january okay all right now i want you to keep in mind that this is slightly smaller okay in scale okay okay right that's not to scale that's the footwear is actually bigger if you look here on the ruler you'll see that one inch is just slightly smaller than actual inch okay but this is the way it prints off on the computer i'm going to move this over so you can see what i mean all right essentially when you're dealing with footwear impressions we have a gentleman on the opp who's basically world renowned his name is john norman and essentially with footwear impressions uh you're in a situation where you're you're pretty much in the area of a fingerprints okay and essentially what we're talking about here is especially when you start adding in other pieces of information that support an investigative position okay this is a photocopy of the boot that uh you took off your foot yeah just a little while ago okay now i'm not an expert in footwear impressions so i rely on the experts footwear impressions are very much like like fingerprint comparisons okay you take a look at this print and again this is one print this person walked through there's several different prints to compare so we're gonna get features off of one print to compare features offer another print to compare these are identical your vehicle drove up the side of jessica lloyd's house your boots walked to the back of jessica lloyd's house on the evening of the 28th and 29th of january okay you want discretion we need to have some honesty okay because this is this is getting out of control really fast russell okay really really fast this is getting beyond my control all right i came in here a few hours ago and i called you the way i called you today because i wanted to give you the benefit out but you and i both know you're at jessica lloyd's house and i need to know why [Music] well you need to explain it because this is the other problem we're having russell okay again these decisions are made by me right now there's a search warrant being executed so your wife now knows what's going on executed your residence in tweed and your vehicle has been seized okay you and i both know they're going to find evidence that links you to these situations okay you and i both know that the unknown offender males marie france como's body is going to be matched to you quite possibly before the evening's over okay this is a major investigation the center of forensic science is on call 24 hours a day helping us with this your opportunity to take some control here and to have some explanation that anybody is going to believe is quickly expiring okay we're applying the investigators now applying for a warrant to search your office all right these aren't decisions that we can say yes or no to this is a practical steps in an investigation like this and russell russell listen to me for a second okay and that evidence comes in when that dna match when that phone rings and somebody knocks on this door your credibility is gone okay because this is how credibility works all right and i know you're an intelligent person and you probably don't need to hear this explanation but i also know your mind's racing right now okay because i've sat across a lot of people in your position over the years okay the bottom line is is that as soon as we get that that piece of evidence that solidifies it dna okay as soon as the expert in footwear impressions the expert entire impressions calls and says yes i've examined those and their match it's all over because as soon as that happens where's your credibility where's your believability you're just another uh and again don't take this wrong okay but you can see if you step outside this room in your mind and imagine how people are going to view you okay if the truth comes out after the clear evidence is presented to you when you finally go okay i'm screwed now what are we going to do russell you know there's only one option what do you what do you what other option is there what's the option well i don't think you want the cold-blooded psychopath option i might be wrong okay because don't get me wrong i've met guys who actually kind of enjoyed the notoriety got off on it got off on having that label bernardo being one of them i don't see that in you if i saw that you i wouldn't be back in here talking to you quite frankly but maybe i'm wrong maybe you got me fooled i don't know this is over and you can have a bad ending where jessica's parents continue to wonder where her daughter's lying i don't know i mean obviously there's a huge search still underway and it'll continue it'll continue until her body's found that might even happen tonight for all i know once that happens then i don't know what other cards you would have to play what are we going to do russell what are we gonna do i'll need rust please okay i'm gonna rust is jessica somewhere we can find her easily like is this something where i can make a call and tell somebody to go to a location and they're going to find her or is this something where we have to go and take a walk hmm which direction are we heading in here russ maybe maybe this would help can you tell me what the issue is you're struggling with what's the issue you're struggling with wow it's hard to believe this is not why is that why is it hard to believe it's just it's just hard to believe whose decision was it and we're going to find out the answer to this anyway but whose decision was it to issue the directive to the base personnel that nobody had to speak to the police and to seek legal counsel before they were questioned it's my interest i think that was my understanding that direction came from somebody that reports to you what do you think they're going to say russ no what do you think they're going to say all right and let's let's step back for a second here okay i really don't think it benefits you or makes you look any better to start debating the little issues right but that is news to me okay i have a legal officer that reports to me yeah who may have given that direction okay but that's the first time i've heard if that's true that's the first time i've heard that all right and that may be the case but how does it look all right we're not even in dealing with something that's really even evidence because it's not needed i mean when you have but they have dna and all this other stuff that's not even what was the direction i don't recall but it was something along the lines of uh telling the people on the base that they didn't uh they weren't required illegally to speak with police and they should seek legal counsel before they decided to speak but well if that was if that was actually said it would not have been to the base at large it may have been to the individual the uh the boyfriend who is the suspect okay my understanding it went out to all personnel maybe maybe no only under your command i don't know okay that's fine that's fine now let's get back to the issue what's that so you talk about perception my only two immediate concerns from a perception perspective are what my wife must be going through right now yeah and the impact this is going to have on the canadian forces where do we go course is there anything you want from me is there anything you want me to explain is there something missing that you're struggling with that i can shed some light on for you i'm struggling with how upset my life is right now express what are you looking for i'm concerned that they're tearing apart my wife's brand new house so am i but if nobody tells them what's there and what's not they don't have any choice computers will be brought to microsoft in california they'll be they'll be picked apart you can't erase things from computers it doesn't happen i'm sure you've seen that i'm sure that's pretty common knowledge these days it just doesn't happen there's they sell programs that uh to try and help people clean their computers of stuff and our guys are pulling that stuff out all the time the fbi is pulling that stuff out all the time this investigation will end up costing no less than 10 million dollars easy and they will say no to nothing any request this major case manager makes on this case they've already been told it's approved don't even bother asking so what am i doing russ i put my best foot forward here for you but i really have i don't i don't know what else to do to make you understand the impact of what's happening here did we talk i want to minimize the impact on my life so do i how do we do that well we start by telling the truth okay okay so where is she get him man um is she close to where she lives i've got maps of that general area which town is she near why don't we start there i'm not sure if you give me a map of uh that covers caligar down to the highway and i would hit tweed and stuff i'll show you you see what i got here i might have something is she inside outside um it's probably the biggest area i have there for us yeah you need more we need a real map so where am i going on this uh i'm here to get to her in this blog here okay so you're pointing to a detailed map of that area and i'll show you where she is okay is she close to a road all right um is it something where is she is she buried or is she somewhere where if you walk there you would you would fairly easily see her okay so she's south of seven uh east of tweed west 41. and uh what's this road here not sure neither am i okay i'll be right back okay do you want any water or anything sure okay i'm right back how long has she been there for a little over a week was it fairly quick from the time she left friday night friday night yep so where was she between thursday night friday night in tweet with you yeah how long was she live for almost 24 hours not quite okay russ you're doing the right thing here okay well again am i interested in uh making my wife's life a little easier and with her family as well we share that but there's no uh your time in ottawa is wasted really i'll tell you where the memory suit cards are where are they they're in the house there but in ottawa yep whereabouts um some in the camera bag which they would have found in my office and in the when you walk into the office on the left side there's a um uh desktop drawers instead of drawers like a filing cabinet wooden ikea in one of the top two drawers and there's a plastic divider yeah and there's uh inside there there are two memory cards okay which are blank but i'm sure they can be read yeah and whose images are on those cards uh well i've erased them but i expect you'll be able to draw images of jessica and i what about marie there may be images on there as well and the two women from september yep okay do you have those images stored anywhere else yeah there are two hard drives in the house in ottawa i can draw you a little picture sure do you want to do that now while i'm getting them out okay do you want anything to eat okay but i do want to talk to you again that's the plan okay i'll be right back you make it up there okay making up all right somebody running around looking for an actual map but i did the same thing with the google maps just that glue them up a little bit more this is the this is the biggest of the area this might have better parameters for you first tweet and what road does that carry you know south of can't read that word uh east hungerford does that make sense oh there it is there what kind of thing how far off the road is she 40 feet she bare if she covered with anything she's wrapped up and she's on the surface just agree something the obvious question i'm gonna have for you is [Music] when they go there and they'll be there shortly they're gonna find her oh yeah okay i'll be right back you know how you want to say something just that the this place my wife it's been a dream for better part of a year so i'm keen to get them what they need and so they can leave her alone okay we're gonna do our best to keep that as low key as possible okay what do you want to talk about because it's uh pretty wide open all right yeah what do you want to know well do you want to work forwards or backwards doesn't matter why don't we start with jessica how does that start for you um i saw her in her house on her treadmill wouldn't stand out of us and i noticed she wasn't there thursday so i got into the house look around then and then left notice she'd come home so i went back in through the back patio door while she was sleeping okay so i woke her up didn't hit her she only hit her once friday night okay well so i raped her in in her house and then i took her to the car and took her to tweet and spent the day and tweet and then i hit her as we were walking she thought we were leaving hit her on the back of the head okay well um what did they hit on the back of the head too well i was surprised that uh her her skull gave way she was there and immediately unconscious uh strangler okay what did you hit her with a flashlight okay in the house or outside the house this happen in the main portion just in front of the fireplace what do you mean they'll find signs of it oh there's quite a bit of blood i hadn't expected i expected to knock her out but obviously generated a lot of blood what did she bleed onto the floor it's just a tile floor okay did you clean it up or did you i i wiped it up i know it'd be easily spotted what makes you think like if i walked in that house right but i see it you wouldn't see it at all but uh yeah all right we'll show it i'm sure okay um so when that happened was she did she have clothes on or was she naked she was dressed okay so when we find her is she gonna have those clothes on too all right um okay marie france como there was an open window in the basement of her uh her house when she was away i went in there a couple of nights before she came home looked around i went back in there late at night when she was at home she was on the phone in her bedroom she actually discovered me in the basement she was trying to get her cat to come upstairs and the cat was in the basement that seen me and was fixated on me in the corner she couldn't get the cat up so uh she came downstairs trying to get the cat and i'm not sure why she came over to me i guess the cat was staring at me and she was wondering where the cat was staring at let's run so when she spotted me i had the same flashlight i subdued her her up on upstairs and strangled her later in the morning well more suffocated hurt some tape laughter there did you subdue her when you say subdued or in the basement what did you do well i had the same flashlight and um she she saw me right away so i was just uh i hit her a couple of times around her head try and knock her out didn't but um he was bleeding a little bit eventually after a struggle subdued here okay any blood from from that struggle oh yeah no not not a whole bunch but uh flashlight did break her skin a couple of times okay what area of the basement did that take place in i was hiding behind the furnace so she spotted me right there okay she recognized you no i had stuff on my face okay um so you go upstairs and you said uh she suffocated well i suffocated her i put tape on her and i put tape on her mouth and then i put tape on her nose and held it there so she couldn't breathe okay um what kind of tape was it what happened to it uh well i took it with me and i can't can't remember what actually i did with that tape but uh probably threw in the garbage did you use tape for any other purposes okay um did she ever recognize you through this whole episode what did you say you had on your face i had just a cover for my head just to you know sports pull over tape i think just a little cap kathy okay just a you know uh liquor or something and they um just a headband over my nose so i read most everything but my eyes okay um now this flashlight where is that now tweet in the house yeah what kind of flashlight is it it's a red three double d i'm not sure what brand it is but it's a metal you know all these aluminum it's like a big i remember what brand you know aircraft aluminum already sealer anyway it's a big bigger one of those um did you take anything out of uh marie france's house or jessica lloyd's house uh yeah some of their underwear okay that's all and where is that um it's in some boxes in the basement here at ottawa in that rec room so we just moved in so they're boxes everywhere so on the same side as the furnace room sort of in the back against the wall okay what do the boxes look like um i think one's a scanner the box for my scanner mm-hmm they're they're all right next to each other so quick look through the boxes there okay how much underwear is in those boxes um probably 60 pieces or something all women's yeah 60 pieces of theirs so you took 60 pieces from between the two of them yeah okay so all right um and they're in like when you talk about a scanner is it a computer scanner box well a computer scanner is up in the office and its box is down in the basement so okay it's inside that box is any of the underwear in those boxes belong to anyone other than marie france or or jessica yeah there's some from each of the other two women okay uh why don't we talk about those two women um so the first one happened on the 16th and i don't know why i can't recall their names but uh the lady that was uh lived closer to you no or it was closer to me okay so the first uh the first one i had just spotted her from her boat ashley and got into the house while she was uh asleep knows that she was alone and just hit her with my hand while she was sleeping subdued her mostly just my weight on top of her um had her take off her pajamas took some pictures took some of our underwear and left and the other one same kind of deal going through the back of the house she was sleeping in her um not in her bedroom but in her you know in front of the tv very much the same story anything different about that story oh yeah pretty much same story and exactly the same story or two different things right yeah no uh not much different at all um i did have the flashlight that time i had over the flashlight and thinking it would knock her out didn't so i subdued her with my weight photographer clothes took some pictures and left why do you think these things happen have you spent much time thinking about that about why yeah yeah but i don't know the answers man i'm pretty sure the answers don't matter well let me let me ask you this did you like or dislike these women i didn't know any of them okay i had met maddie france that one time in that in her airplane okay now but i guess when yeah when you're going through these things um are you well let me let's talk about jessica because she was there with you for the whole day right what kind of feelings were you experiencing while you were with her that day oh she's a very nice girl you tell me why you killed her do you know why you killed her well i think i killed her because i knew that uh her story would be recognized her story would be recognized how do you mean well because she knew i was taking pictures so because of the two stories and tweed that would have been a fairly yeah i've been quite obvious so if you didn't take pictures what would you have done with her i don't know i mean she's at your house right um well let me ask you this is it uh two lived right and two died what's what was the difference in your mind between well the uh the attention the first two god was very much folded focused on obviously or for obvious reasons pictures i took anybody else telling stories about pictures right would have been a fairly straight line okay but when when this thing happened with marie franz it was was did you believe that you were already a suspect for what happened in tweet no so what were you concerned about well because um i was pretty sure that uh you know she was serving military right it would have been it would have been difficult for investigators to ignore that connection okay makes sense um let's go back to jessica then okay um you see her on the wednesday night okay on our treadmill how do you see her she did you stop to look at the house or how does that catch your eye as you drive by well i was looking to see who was who's where i don't know that area very well so i was just keeping my eyes open okay so you spot her on the way and say yeah um do you just keep on going or did you stop and take a closer look that night or anything no okay and he went back on the thursday night right yeah so you go back on the thursday night and he went you went into the house before she came home um yeah she was out got in through the kitchen window it's unlocked everything else was locked okay so you're in there doing what looking around looking around to see who lived in the house it was just her okay and then what do you do well i left the house and and then she came home i hadn't been out of the house very long so i watched for a little bit to see if she was alone she was then i went in and she went back to sleep punching went to sleep okay so you go in she's sleeping and what do you do well i snuck up to the side of her bed expecting to try to knock her out she woke up but she did as i said i didn't hit her what did you say does it lie down on your tummy okay she did i tied her up which tire up with some rope so she's on her stomach how are you tying her up just telling you her hands behind her back okay she got clothes on at that point what kind of clothes sweats all right tie your hands behind her back and then then what happens i took her clothes off okay and then what happened i raped her our rape could mean a lot of different things what kind of sexual act took place vaginal and oral okay oral who was performing the oral sex um me on her and her on me okay any uh any condoms used or anything like that no no so you can correct me from wrong vaginal intercourse uh her plant farming oral sex on you and you performing oral sex on her do you remember what order those things occurred yeah i started with oral sex then i raped her and then later on i made her for moral sex on me okay anything any kind of conversation happening when this is going on yeah a little bit what was being said well i threatened her before she before i had her perform oral sex what did you say well i put a zip tie around her neck i said that i would pull it if i didn't like what she would do okay so she did what you told her to do any issues there any reason to pull it no so do you remember if you ejaculated at that point or at any point um at that point but later on okay so the oral sex finishes and then what happens next well i continued to rape her and i had her put on some of her underwear took some pictures lots of pictures and then got her dressed okay at what point did you decide that she was going to leave with you i'm not sure that wasn't necessarily always the plan but at some point i was there for three three hours three and a half um do you remember the conversation about leaving was there any she say anything about that or what was she saying to you she was certainly cooperative okay a cooperative can mean a number of different things was she excited about leaving with you i mean i don't want to be sarcastic but um no no she just didn't put up too much of a fuss did she try and negotiate with you at all or what did she say well i told her that i would uh let her go later on okay so when you take her out of your house is she is she still bound or yep how how is that done just the hands behind her back okay a lot about her feet anything there oh she was walking pretty okay barefoot or no she had those brown sweatshirts on that had been reported okay so where does she sit in your truck when you get to the truck front seat past your side okay and where do you go straight to tweet straight to your house and tweet or show you just the town no stops anywhere no okay what time do you remember what time you arrived there i don't exactly but i'd say between 4 30 and 5 30. okay all right when you were when you were first there before she came home do you remember did anybody come to the door at all when you were in the house no i think somebody had come home as somebody to come to the house just before she did because i thought it was her but then they left i was outside at the time did you see who that person was or what kind of vehicle they were in or anything saw the lights she knew it was her and then all of a sudden they left so i don't know what happened okay um where were you when that first vehicle pulled up in the back back here okay so you didn't have a view of the vehicle you could just tell if there was a vehicle there is that fair okay so you get home but 4 35 you say okay and then what happens uh well she um she's go to the bathroom and a quick shower washer and we went into my bedroom and to sleep a little bit she was tied up how was she tied up at that point i put tape over her eyes from the beginning so that's what she had okay when they find her is that tape gonna be there or was it ever removed no i removed it okay what kind of tape third pick all right the duct tape that you used where's the where's that roll uh it's all gone i used it to use the rest of it to bind her on her body so by all gone is it is it with the body now okay so you said who went to sleep when you came home you had a her she had a shower well we both got in i washed her off after she'd been to the bathroom we both went to sleep but she was tied up and i tied the rope you know so i could fall asleep a little bit she couldn't move her that way come here okay i'm trying to picture how that would be so the rope's tied to what on her just tied her hands behind her back okay and then the rope just wrapped around me a couple of times so there's no slack okay do you remember how long you slept for oh well maybe a couple hours do you know if she slept i don't know okay so you wake up and it was they were up and down and so it wasn't two hours straight it was about two hours in bed but there wasn't much sleep just lying there probably so you wait you get up from that and what happens next um she had a seizure actually she felt it coming on and because she had some before lasted uh quite a while got her dressed into the family room and anyway she um she recovered she got was um stress but uh yeah probably probably went on for about 15 minutes so how do you know she had them before she told me did she tell you why she gets them well she suggested the stress yeah so she felt herself started to tense up and said she thought she was gonna have a seizure you know so she was she was it was you know convulsions that's what she was saying okay so she was recovered from that yeah she um stayed with her and talked to her make sure she's lighter tongue okay and then what happened well then we had a little lie down right there because she was obviously exhausted put a cover over her went to sleep wait for an hour or so and i had told her um earlier that before i let her go i wanted to take some pictures of her in her underwear and have sex with her so after she'd had the rest for an hour or so i had her put on remember the outfit she had i'm sorry put on a number you know pairs panties bra that she had got taken from theirs so she put those on and i took pictures okay are you in any of these pictures yep what kind of what kind of images are you in um well i'm with her there's on the hard drives you'll see there's video as well so there's video of the um almost four hours i guess of what well of uh initially at her place of raping her and then yeah so i was running the video and then taking still pictures so the video pretty much covers everything did you use video at other places you know is that video on the hard drives same type of uh activity yeah oh i didn't ever put on any stuff okay so jessica poses for these pictures and there's videos and um and then what happens then um i got her dressed because she thought she was leaving and then as we were walking out uh i struck around the back of the head okay when did you decide to do that well i was uh pretty sure that i wasn't going to let her leave but um yeah the idea of striking around the head was developed in the afternoon and what was that strike supposed to accomplish in your mind what was the intent of of doing that well i thought i would be able to knock her out and then i was i was going to strangle her okay so when you actually do striker what's the result her skull gave way a little bit felt like there was a lot of blood so i think that's what happened she was immediately unconscious and then i um strangled her how'd you strangle her uh same rope just put her on her neck okay well she was unconscious now what happened to the zip tie that was around her neck earlier i took it off around that i guess did you take it off before you put the rope around her neck or after or remember after she was dead oh okay so the zip tie was around her neck while you use the rope okay did you leave the rope around her neck no okay and how did you know she was dead she um well her body stopped moving okay so what did you do after that i uh i bound her up her field position and cleaned up the floor don't you say you bound her up is are you referring to the duct tape that you talked about earlier yeah okay so then what did you i put her in the garage it was very cold and then i went into the base okay why'd you go to the base pardon me why'd you go to the base because i was flying early the next morning okay so what time did you leave to go to the base i told you that between nine and ten or so on the friday night yep okay so you fly and then i drove home. so which name would you saturday night so you land and what time are you landing 6 6 30. okay did you go buy the house and tweet on your way to ottawa no um so you drove straight home to ottawa what time did you get there at you remember sometime before midnight i can't quite remember but uh i think i went into the office first did some work so i think i got home to automotive i think i'm sure i i slept for a little bit at the tim hortons in brockville so it might be late right honestly can't remember when i get out of it okay yeah midnight ish saturday so you get home you're in ottawa what do you do go to bed or yeah stay up okay so then what do you do the next day well my wife and i did some stuff i can't remember what uh what was going on that day i'm putting together the new house and i headed back to tweed that night sorry um no i didn't i had uh i had monday off that's right monday off and then i was visiting one of the units in ottawa on tuesday so then head back to tweets with tuesday night okay so you get back to tweet and what happens next i took jessica's body to that spot okay that happened on tuesday night just this past tuesday obviously okay do you remember what time that was it's pretty late it was midnight ish i'd say between midnight and 1 on wednesday morning okay um what made you decide to to measure that distance that point seven kilometers that's just the way numbers i have to know the numbers okay and um how did you leave her i just left her tucked behind a fairly large rock is that duct tape still on her and what else is on her a couple of towels wrapped around her head and the top and pants she was wearing jeans okay did you ever go back all there um what other type of cleaning and things like that did you do anything else to kind of cover your tracks you can think of i vacuumed the house and i uh wiped the floor washed the floor okay what about your truck do you do anything with that just the wash today because it was a nice vacuum okay um so marie franz when did when did her first occur dia to go to her house uh well probably in october october november not quite sure the summer that time and do you really remember why you thought to to do that uh well you know she had said she lived alone when the one time i met her okay um just trying to understand why her versus you know the dozens of other women you probably come across on a daily basis i don't know you know i went out there when she wasn't home just to see where she lived when did you do that a couple of nights before i had you know her address all right this is a nominal roll for the basement okay so when you go out there a couple of nights before do you remember what night that was but you were there first time i don't uh but i it was within two or three nights i think okay probably well no more than four or anything like that and did you actually go into a house on that occasion or did you uh okay so what happened that night how did you how did you get into our house this window on the side of the basement okay just the back step a bit how did you get to her house that that first night you went there i drove what did you drive uh i think i drove my truck what kind of finder did you remember where you parked it yeah i parked it um bit of a division in the residential areas that are parked on another side it's like 700 meters away okay so not on her street on different street remember what street you parked on no but it actually might be the same street but there's an interruption in the street where there's a construction zone so there's a pathway in between so i think it's probably the same street okay uh you go to her house and when you went there that night did you know that she was away i'm not sure if i knew entirely but i i think i thought she was right okay is that based on her schedule or or how would how would you know uh well my yeah because i fly with the squadron i have access to the schedule and you don't know for sure i think that's probably how you okay so you go to our house and what do you do that night the first name looked around and make sure that she was living there alone and i'm sorry did you say i can't remember if you said how did you get in same same way side basement window side basement window okay do you remember what kind of window it is like what made it uh well i just noticed it was the flashlight i could see that it was not locked it had been opened slightly so i need to remove okay so you go in and uh you're in her house figuring out she lives alone and uh do you do anything that night yeah just playing with her underwear you mean playing with her wearing it okay doing anything else i didn't touch her stuff what do you mean you didn't touch your stuff i mean you touched your underwear but yeah nothing else okay did you take any of the underwear with you that night yeah a few pieces where did you find the underwear when you went in sure was it clean was it used for clean um anything else you can remember doing that evening that yeah no all right so um after that first visit did you return again before meeting up with her no okay so which day did you go to her house when she was there well the night before i went to ottawa so i think that was monday night all right so let's walk through that uh what time do you think you got there about 11 or so probably 10 30 11. okay yep so she was on the phone in her room you can hear that from the backyard i got in through the side window the same basement window how could you hear from the backyard what was uh just hear her on the phone front beside me inside the house you could hear through the walls that she was on the phone okay any idea who she was talking to or what she was talking about okay so you go in through the basement window what are you wearing when this is happening um a sweatshirt dockers i guess and the two pieces on my head okay where are those two pieces now pieces that you wore on the head uh they're probably in my bag in my luggage bag and edison in the bedroom what does your luggage bank look like that's a blue duffel bag type thing what's right beside the bit is it the only blue duffel bag in your bedroom um and these pieces what do they look like again it's a blue headband okay standard blue you know winter headband and black skull cap type thing any insignias or anything on them yeah there are but i don't know what they are the blue headband has something extensive you know stitched a name of some sort stitched on it and the uh skull cap has some sort of emblem on white emblem on the black i don't know what it is are they like sports emblems or company emblems or it's the manufacturers okay anything else in that blue uh duffel bag is it full of of things just just my clothes okay um so you go in uh do you remember what you had on your feet in the house there when you went to marie france's house probably running shoes there wasn't snow on the ground so you go in and you're in the basement and whereabouts in the basement are you um by the furnace okay and what are you doing like what uh what's your what's your sort of plan at that point i was waiting for a little bit okay and how long did that take well she didn't then she came down looking for the cat all right and uh what happens next well as i described i subdued her give you the flashlight but essentially wrestled her to the ground and tied her up okay what did you use the tie rod same real green rope it's in tweed is it just green or like uh how long is this piece of rope it's probably um 20 feet it's it's a boat boat bro it's got some red specks in it i think is there lots of ropes in tweet or is this probably the only rope no this uh there are two two lengths two lengths of the same green rope and were they both used uh well i finally ever had one with me so i don't know if i use the same piece both times or not but only two lines of rope okay so you tire tire up how did you tie her up when you obviously do that okay and what is she wearing at that point she wasn't wearing anything to start with so when she came down to the basement she had no clothes on she had some sort of a shawl over her shoulder okay she immediately dropped when she saw me did she say anything when she saw you she did she called out you bastard okay and then what happened then i subdued her as i described by hitting her with that red flashlight okay oh they were more glancing glancing blows cut her skin but weren't doing much else okay she fell over and then i subdued it she tripped how did you tie her at that point like i know you used the rope what did you tie her up like just told her to put her like pulled her hands behind her back and just tied her wrists together okay and then what happened after that then i took her upstairs did she go upstairs under her own power or did you carry her no she passed out on the stairs and then i carried her up why do you think she passed out i expect from the heads to her head to carry it up to where if you were better put her on the bed okay and then what happened uh well as i described i think i bed i um her over a period of time okay and again just to be specific with what sex acts took place just vaginal your penis in her vagina yeah any condom use did you ejaculate did you exactly to any point with her no okay um but just before i forget you i think i asked you don't mean to bounce around on your rust but with jessica i asked you about ejaculation you said you didn't at that point when did you ejaculate with jessica um the second time or third time that i had her for moral sex and was that at her residence or yours hers okay any other times that you ejaculated with her when you ejaculated with jessica did you use anything to clean up or no what happened to the ejaculate she swallowed it um so getting back to marie france it's just straight vaginal sex no condom no ejaculation is that right yeah okay um how long does that go for like how long were you engaged in that activity uh well i don't have two rz okay and then what happens next well as i described i suffocated her using dark tape why did you decide to do that well again because of the pictures as i described here it was going to be a pretty straight line back to tweed okay but why why why did you decide to use that method versus something else i had thought about strangling her earlier that's on the video what is my uh well it was a short short-lived attempt because she struggled quite a bit and then i decided that i needed to suffocate her so the short-lived tempest strangler and what's on the video the suffocation or the strangling well just me putting my hand on her throat and then they're responding no surprise very aggressively okay any videos of the suffocation part or pictures of that now you mentioned that you brought the rope with you where did the duct tape come from i brought it and what did you do with afterwards i think it did state in tweet what color of duct tape are we talking about i know it comes in a variety of colors but great great um so before the suffocation obviously how long do you think you were with her from the point well how long do you think you were in that house from the point you went in that window to the point you left probably um four hours okay so correct me if i'm wrong did you say you got there at 11 or around 11. i think that's right okay so if you left around three in the morning well i was in the basement for quite a while before she came down and she wasn't going to bed so i was probably in the basement for 30 40 minutes okay so by the time she saw me it was probably closer to midnight all right um but i didn't have a watch on so i'm not sure any clubs i don't think so did you wear gloves with jessica only to get in the house it's a very cold night and what about the two women in in tweed that was so while you're with marie franz what kind of conversations are taking place you anything and she said do you stick out in your mind no no i taped your mouth there's no conversation okay when did you tape her mouth as soon as i got her up to the bedroom why did you decide to do that because she was uh you know quite aggressive in what way i was confident she was would have screened given the chance what what if she did initially did she in the basement so in what way was she aggressive well justin you know when she discovered me she was very vocal screamed quite a bit until i subdued her so i expected she would scream again given the chance okay do you remember how you left her residence back door patio door okay to take anything with you that night some of her underwear anything else no all right um did you do anything else to try and cover your tracks with me fronts well i had turned off my blackberry before i left trent other than that do you remember trying to destroy any kind of evidence there or anything you thought may have produced evidence or anything oh i took her sheets off the bed and ran them through the laundry like the laundry where at in her house okay did you run them completely through did you wait for it to finish or no i just put them in and put a bunch of bleach in and let it go okay so the night you went to her house and got through at 11 you came from where like you said you left trenton you turned off your blackberry did you talk about the base are you talking about uh where did you leave to go to her house well no i just turned off my blackberry before i left the trenton area um i would have left from the base after work all right when did you turn when did you uh what time do you think you turned your blackberry off well it's only a half hour drive to brighton so yeah probably in the 9 9 30 range okay do you remember what uh what time you would have turned it back on and i was back on the 401 heading to auto by the next month what time would that be so six plus or minus 30 minutes okay so you leave her house three-ish no i think it was later than that so the four hours obviously was i think uh man i think it went in about eleven i was in the basement for quite a while probably left her house closer to four or thirty somewhere there okay and where do you go i drove the other one straight at all yeah did you go by your house and tweet or anything or did you just go straight remember what route you took uh yeah 4-1 but from her place i think i went straight north on uh whatever the road is that goes straight through brighton up to the 401 at the 401 and headed east okay and so you're going to what's the meeting you're having that day in ottawa remind me it's a meeting on the c-17 acquisition project okay and who ran that meeting the project manager miss sue hale okay is that the only meeting around that time period you would have went to on that issue was sue hill there wasn't like a weekly meeting or anything like that i know this is sort of a quarterly all right um [Music] so the night you went the night this happened um where did you park uh that night as i said across the gravel a little roadway probably it's probably the same road okay similar location to the first night yeah okay all right same same vehicle yeah truck okay all right um okay let's talk about uh the well seeing as we're going backwards in time here why don't we talk about the second incident in tweed um with uh lori masakai when it's a 76 cozy cove how did you decide on her i knew she lived alone how did you know that she went three doors down and uh didn't know her but i knew she was pretty long she had a boyfriend and hadn't seemed to be had been around yeah looked in the window and she was alone so she she had a boyfriend but he wasn't too frequent okay well she told me that they were fighting so that's why i hadn't been there okay so um did you look in her house before the night that this this incident happened or when did you do that had been in uh within the week probably a couple of nights earlier what'd you do that night i um i looked around to see if there any permanent signs of her boyfriend i guess took one or two pieces of underwear that's all okay so tonight you go there when the incident happens uh remember what time that was it was pretty late i probably got into the house around midnight she was asleep on the couch although i didn't know that but i knew she was in there and how did you get in sorry a window in the back of the house was it a little sunroom was it just something you had to slide or how did you remove the screen and slide it up okay so i got into the house and she was asleep in front of the tv wearing anything on your face that night yeah same things okay the headband and the uh the cap okay um what kind of clothes did you have on just dark sweatshirt pants right so she's asleep on the couch you're in there and then what happens we have been through this eh i know i struck her with the flashlight i think it would knock her out it didn't he struggled i subdued her took some pictures left it's probably in the house about two and a half hours it's a pretty short description for two and a half hours well we talked to i told her i wasn't going to hurt her i i told her that there were other guys in the house robbing her my job was just to control her what did she say to that she was scared worried she was going to be seriously hurt did she say that or did you just assume that i don't know she said that she was she was worried she was going to be killed i said i'm not going to kill you what did you do with uh you said you took pictures of her clothed unclothed uh both clothed eventually and then unclothed are you in any of those pictures i don't think so you just took her kind of camera are you using by the way it's uh it's a digital uh song you just have the one camera yeah and the video camera also they're two separate some cameras tape take video right um and where is the camera and the video camera then tweet is it the only camera and video camera in that house yep okay all right um did you take pictures of her and how do you end up leaving thank you uh i just told her to count or wait for uh number of minutes before of course you call the police okay and you leave immediately or did you stay there for a while see what she was going to do or i left did you did you wait to see if the police showed up or anything or all right so what'd you do when you got home couple on your feet i went to sleep okay what did you do the next day you want to work normal time okay a couple hours later all right um you remember how her clothing was removed uh well because her hands were tied behind her back i think i cut off her top and then pulled off her bottle what did you use to cut her top i can't remember it was a knife or like a folding exacto knife or leatherman or one of the two are these items that are in your house and tweet yep okay is there ever any other time you use a knife to cut off clothing or anything else do you remember i cut off jessica's top of the knife so her hands were tied behind her back that's all okay where's that knife which knife do you use that was the leatherman that was leather is it the only leatherman in tweet um so on the 16th of september when you went in that night was that the first time you've been in her house yeah okay and why her just because i had seen her and she was cute that's it okay so there was no um you didn't go into her house before that that night no all right um so you go in and how did you get into her house side window the uh was not locked cut the screen slid the window curled in okay and uh what you're wearing same switch your dark bands the same hat and okay uh and where do you find uh in bed sleep okay and what do you do stood over her for a while and i um hit her on the left side of her head just with my hand just woke her up he struggled you know just lay on her and very much like i described a little bit ago took off her pulled her top down and took off her pants took some pictures left do you remember her saying anything to you yes what did she say all kinds of things she had a a young baby just next door the other room eight months or so she's obviously concerned about the baby let's turn for herself i assured her i was not going to hurt her physically right um any underwear taken from or pory yeah both and where would they be located in tweed and why are they in tweed as opposed to uh um marie franz and jessica's underwear remember how much of their underwear you took um not very much from lori did they know that you took their underwear i don't know you didn't discuss it with them or anything um so where and tweed would their underwear be um in the it's a laundry room area okay just between the house and the garage right so where in that laundry area would they be kept there's a cupboard uh up top and a duffel bag what's the default look it's a green army definitely are they all in the same duffel bag is there anything else in that duffel bag just underwear okay um when these when these pictures are looked at you talked about being in marie franz's underwear on the first night you went in did you take photographs of that yeah what about anybody else's underwear yep photos of you in their underwear and where were those photos taken well sometimes in listen in maddie france's case in her house the others in my house in tweet so is this a matter you would take the underwear go back and and then at some point put the end around and take pictures what about jessica's underwear uh she's only her friend so you don't have pictures of you and i remember okay all right um okay well i guess uh i just have a couple of questions for you i mean i'm sure there's going to be more questions but i guess what's on my mind right now for us is what made you decide to tell me this tonight mostly to make my wife's life easier okay is what you told me tonight the truth how do you feel about what you've done like what disappointed okay let me ask you this if um if this didn't come to the point it's at right now if whatever reason you didn't end up on our on our radar so to speak uh do you think it would have happened again i was hoping not that i can't answer the question okay um not too much here russ just a few details that i wanted to cover off and specifically dan with marie france um in the basement of her house uh there's a hole in the uh drywall do you recall how that happened whereabouts i don't know specifically but it's downstairs i don't remember that okay do you remember doing anything with her in the basement uh where you may have used some clothing or something to uh to secure her yeah i tied her up against one of the poles in the basement initially and i went outside and put the screen back on and secured the window okay well she was tied to the pole yep and what was your thinking behind doing that at that point just to convert how it come in okay um now by the time she's tied to that poll is that in the very initial few minutes kind of thing of the confrontation or that was shortly after i'd subdued her and tied her up yes okay does she have the duct tape on her mouth yet i think probably what kind of pictures will show it all right now in the upstairs bathroom by her bedroom there's uh looks like something's occurred in there remember that yep what happened there she had passed out on the bed and i had gone to look out the front window see if anybody was coming and she got up and closed the bedroom door and raced into the bathroom trying to get somebody's attention but her mouth was taped and her hands were tied what did you do as a result of that well i just got in some deuter again and got got her back in the bedroom i didn't do anything just regain control over okay if i remember correctly there's a bit there's a bit of blood in there do you know where that blood would have how that that would have occurred all the blood was from the initial hits as i was trying to subdue her okay her skin breaking with the close to her head okay do you recall blood being in the bathroom no actually i didn't have a light on there but it didn't surprise me okay um there's a pair of underwear and some socks on the floor of that bathroom that belonged to her do you remember how they got there i don't remember seeing it what do you recall doing to her breasts it's pretty clear that there was some something happened to her breasts do you remember what that might have been no i certainly touched her breasts i didn't do anything to hurt them i remember that no okay all right um well russell when i suffocated her she was on her her front so may have been something there but what do you mean well she was lying on the floor in the bedroom as i suffocated her and obviously struggled maybe in there that something happened but i didn't do anything specifically to her breasts okay so when you suffocate here that's when you have the duct tape over her mouth and nose and that's on the floor yeah and then what happens after that well she died and i um and took the duct tape off her head and put her on the bed and covered her up with duvet okay what was your thinking behind doing that all right um as you might expect your arrest certainly uh even now one of the ottawa investigators mentioned to me that um there's a number of incidents that uh that have gone unsolved over the years can i i was going to get into that can i go to the washroom quickly yeah i can get somebody to take you to the washroom okay

Channel: Red Circle Interrogations and Confessions

Views: 99,816

Rating: 4.713326 out of 5

Keywords: Russell Williams Interrogation, Interrogations, Confession, Confessions, Police Interrogation, Police Interrogations, Interrogation video, Police Confession, Crime confessions, Crime Interrogation, Serial killer, Serial killers, Murder confession, Murder Interrogation, Murder Interrogations, Full Interrogation, Police Interview, Interrogation, Police Questioning, Questioning, Interview, Justin Ross Harris, full confession, crime talk, video interrogation, fbi interrogation, fbi

Id: u5R42DjaNzo

Length: 201min 14sec (12074 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 29 2020