‘Cowards’: Dad of Slain Idaho Student Criticizes Investigators, Reveals Autopsy Information

sometimes when new information comes forward the people that we've spoken to beforehand may have new insight on that so it does often seem like we're backtracking but we're really just trying to get the most important details and the best timeline that we can come up with a father of one of the students killed in the University of Idaho quadruple murder case reveals alleged new details from the coroner forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan reacts and explains welcome to sidebar presented by long crime I'm Jesse Weber at first when we heard of the news I was so angry she was taken away all these special people and you never think it's going to happen to your family and then I had to sit back through my tears and realized that I really was blessed I was fortunate to have Santa live with me for a couple years we continue to follow the University of Idaho quadruple murder case it's the killings of 21 year old Kaylee Gonzalez 21 year old Madison Mogan 20 year old Zana kernodle and 20 year old Ethan Chapin their bodies found in their off-campus home out in the college town of Moscow these killings happened four weeks ago and at the time of this recording no arrests have been made no suspect identified and no murder weapon recovered but there is something that we have to talk about and that are the and those are the new statements from Stephen Gonzalez Mr Gonzalez for anybody who's been following this case has been quite vocal with the media about this investigation since the news broke about the killing of his daughter Kaylee in fact he would reveal certain things that we weren't entirely sure the authorities wanted him to share and now he is coming out with more information regarding the wounds and he's doing this in an interview with Fox News digital so let me bring in right now my good friend forensic death investigator from Jacksonville State University Joseph Scott Morgan who is also the host of the body bags podcast Joseph it's good to see you and thanks for coming on again good to see you brother how you doing so before we get into the wounds and the revelations about the wounds I want to start here so Stephen Gonzalez told Fox News that he spoke with the coroner Kathy mabutt I apologies that I mispronounced her last name first off before we get into the wounds is it typical for a coroner to share this information with the parent of a victim it depends upon the case and yeah I mean I've I've certainly you know in my past working as a medical legal death investigator have shared uh you know some of the intimate details when asked specifically about it however I will say this if there has ever been a Multiple homicide case that I have worked I I've never done a compare and contrast relative to injuries that other victims have sustained uh to the wounds that say the immediate family is asking me about about one victim that's very bad form and I I can't imagine any Any Corner doing that I'll get to get into that the comparison between Kaylee and the others but this is what Stephen Gonzalez told Fox news about what was told to him by the coroner he says she says sir I don't think stabs is the right word it was like tears like this was a strong weapon not like a stab she said these things were big open gouges she said it was quick these weren't something where you were going to be able to call 9-1-1 they were not going to slowly bleed out what do you make of that I've never heard I've never heard verbiage like that from anyone in the in the medical legal field and I'll tell you why wait does that does that mean that he might be getting it wrong or that there's something if if a coroner told this to him something's off yeah some something would be off and you know I don't know maybe he's not quite understanding what's being said but he's using very specific language there uh Jesse tears let's just break it down real quick all right when you're using an edged weapon Tyrion is not something that's associated with that okay tearing creates this where you have connective tissue or you have tissue bridging most of the time that's cons that's connected with lacerations and lacerations are you know associated with blunt force trauma that's the coroner's never mentioned anything about blunt force trauma so I don't know if he's misunderstanding misremembering or just misstating I I don't know but I do know this with you have two choices with sharp force injuries you either have stabs okay or you have incised wounds which are slices slices are longer than they are deep stabs are deeper than they are long that's really your only two choices now kind of an outlier in all of this is something we refer to as puncture wounds which doesn't look anything like a stab wound they're generally you know kind of uh circular in shape you see them with like people that have been stabbed with Shanks homemade Shanks and prisons or people that are impaled on rebar that sort of stuff now this tearing it just it doesn't add up to me it doesn't make sense whatsoever we've been under the impression that it was a fixed blade knife that was used some there was reporting that it was a Rambo style knife there was questions if it was a k-bar style knife he said Stephen Gonzalez that the knife slashed open Kaylee gonsalves liver and lungs um again so are we are we thinking it's the wrong weapon based on this or are we still of the conclusion it's a knife but the characterization is a bit off well I'm well first off uh I'm very sorry for this man's loss but uh he's not the person I'm going to go to uh for an analysis of injuries um I'm still waiting to hear from the medical examiner who I think is or the forensic pathologist who was contracted to do these examinations over in Spokane all right corner just so everybody knows the corner is not an MD here she's not certainly not a forensic pathologist she didn't do these these bodies would have been transferred over there um I I don't understand from you know the Genesis of a lot of this uh information that he's putting out there it doesn't make sense and and keep in mind as well early on do you remember back I think that uh the coroner actually had a sit-down interview with our friend Ashley Banfield early on and she was first person to get get to uh uh get to the corner and Ashley asked very specifically in that interview she said were any of these victims slashed you know because that goes to another part of criminal profiling and all that sort of stuff the corner definitively said no she said these were stab wounds and they at least had one fatal stab wound that she could identify now she talked about the corner framed it in a sense where she talked about the chest okay all right he's saying this father is saying liver liver ain't the chest okay as a matter of fact it's Way South you're talking about below the rib cage essentially on the right aspect of of the abdomen so I I don't I don't really know um you know how they came to that conclusion that that doesn't make sense and again using this term and I think using the term the liver was slashed that's not what you would have in this case it would be a stab remember I gave the description of an incised one in just a moment this is not an incised wound this is a stab wound okay what do you make of when he says like you mentioned that Kaylee's wounds do not match to mogan's wounds so he said they may have individually died from the exact same thing being stabbed but there are more details they're not even close to matching again do you think that this is a situation where perhaps he's misunderstanding what the coroner's saying or is the coroner maybe get providing conclusions that the coroner should not be making at this point on my default position again with this Jesse is is what does the forensic board certified forensic pathologist say about it because because it wait and just to be clear it is possible he's right it is possible that he is right I would assume uh however what is he where what's the Genesis for this you know how does he how does he assess that these injuries are different did he see this other victim's body was he the one drawing this conclusion I doubt that that's the case so is he saying that the coroner sat there and said your child's injuries are so much more worse than any other victim that's what I have a real problem with here first off I don't know how accurate that is and secondly in I think bigger it's very disrespectful to these other victims very disrespectful to these victims and their families to say this um right now we we don't know what the status of the injuries are it's been very non-specific relative to defensive injuries who sustained the defensive injuries with the location of the so-called defensive injuries are that sort of thing so you know right now we're just kind of getting snatches from him and I don't I don't know the Genesis of the information he is he is relating well he said also that the coroner told them that these victims in general died quickly and didn't suffer he said he's not convinced in fact he says it was a hell of a battle going on down there from what the coroner told us again I give yet your response yeah and again how do you make that assessment um this is this is not like a one-off event where you have a single perpetrator on a single victim This is highly Dynamic I've mentioned the term you know co-mingling relative to to evidence and a lot of that has to do with proximity uh but let me throw out another term to you it's it's called co-sleeping and so you've got two victims well both sets of victims are actually co-sleeping with one another so you're telling me that in I don't know in the darkness or whatever the lighting situation was that this individual the perpetrator this monster came out of the dark and was able to identify this specific individual and Target her because that's what's being important to hear that she was specifically targeted Ergo that how this is demonstrated is the fact that her injuries were so much more robust than any other injuries that anybody might have had I just don't see how he's arriving at that conclusion he says he has his own suspicions about what may have happened he's not revealing at this point what did you make of this comment where again he says the coroner told him that the perpetrator was a strong individual but we know that police haven't identified you know any suspect of the suspect's gender he came out and said Steve Gonzalez I got outraged by them not just coming out and saying this was a woman or a man because they should know by the amount of strength it took to deliver the injuries they're just being cowards there are girls walking around the street right now that deserve to know they should be looking out for a sadistic male what do you think wow he's into profiling now okay yeah that that's that's inappropriate he should not be saying that at all you don't think the coroner gave him any indication about it I don't know what she gave him but he should not be the mouthpiece for it and putting that information out there um you know for all I know this individual probably is a sadist I have no idea how to measure that but how are you going to measure strength as well I mean I think that we can probably agree um that it would have taken some level of strength particularly with the first victims um and willpower in order to bring this about you know you're gonna because you're fighting two individuals at the time I go back to this idea of co-sleeping in in this context you've got two victims that are there before you if you're the perpetrator and you're attacking both of them with a knife again I don't see how you can be targeting someone specifically physically targeting someone and you're having to fend off both individuals because we don't know anything about the sequencing of death at this point either keep that in mind that's very important here because we don't know anything about the postmorm interval they still don't have this timeline figured out as well we have ideas about it right based upon the house and and who was killed before I have to let you go Joseph we have about a minute left I want to ask you real quick about that there uh it seems that it's being reported that the hands of the victims have all been bagged at the scene in an effort to preserve possible DNA evidence so that their hands were bagged up is that common and what could we find from that and how long would it take to get results okay first off yeah it's very common um to to bag hands in the past we've just used brown not sterile but clean brown paper bags and you tape them on hands now they they literally have these kind of all-encompassing little bags that have a drawstring and kind of again bear with me let me break it down tell you how it works you bag the hands very carefully because there's a tremendous amount of trace evidence one of the reasons you bagged the hands is that this is kind of a logistics issue when bodies are being moved from one location and certainly if you're talking about traveling all the way from this location to Spokane which is where the body bodies would have been examined there's a lot of jostling so Things fall off it's very fragile when you remove these bags they're removed very carefully Jesse and so anything that's contained in them they'll be sealed up and individually labeled and sent to the crime lab for examination now they're also protecting anything that's contained under the nails you've heard me you and I have talked many many times over the years about nail scrapings and nail clippings skin any kind of blood anything like that's going to be contained and also because this was apparently a pretty bloody scene it's amazing how much hair will contact and stick to hands I find that more frequently than just about any other kind of evidence hair from from perpetrator and sometimes hair from the victim too because it's so Dynamic how long is the turnaround uh it's not surprising first off here we are we're past we're past that that marker in time of four weeks now um I am uh sure that at least the evidence that is gleaned from the victims is at a point where they've almost assessed it they've collected all of the DNA that they possibly could and now it's just about running the numbers relative to it to try to determine whose DNA is there and what you're looking for is when you go through this process of uh this perpetration of this Butchery person a okay is going to have their DNA and possibly the perpetrators but as you move to B you'll take if they're using the same weapon you're taking the same weapon that has been dipped into the blood of a then to be than to C then to D so forth so you've got multiple transfers it becomes very layered not to mention all the touch DNA as well forensics tell so much of the story we see that all the time in the cases we cover and maybe we'll see it here as well by the way before we let everybody go anybody with information they're asked to call the tip line at 208-883-7180 you can email tip line at ci.mosco.id.us and also you can submit uh digital tips at fbi.gov Moscow Idaho Joseph Scott Morgan thank you so much for taking the time is a really interesting discussion you bet buddy and that's all we have for you here on sidebar everybody thank you so much for joining us here please subscribe on Apple podcast Spotify YouTube wherever you get your podcasts I'm Jesse Weber I'll speak to you next time foreign

Channel: Law&Crime Network

Views: 506,811

Keywords: law and crime, law and crime network

Id: iQiI9KeS-sU

Length: 16min 41sec (1001 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 13 2022