"แฟ้มสีน้ำเงิน" กับชีวิต "คนขับ F1" ที่เพิ่งเหยียบเบรกครั้งแรก | คำนี้ดี EP.1108 Feat. ดร.ต้นสน

no matter how good you think you are how successful you are there always someone in different fields who just as successful or more successful and you can be a really dumb person in another room as well it's always a very romanticized version of it oh I had struggle a little bit then I had a you know Peak Climax and happy ever after right there very kind of Hollywood structure to it I'm not going to do it the way that he asked me to do it I'm going to try my own way different things and all my friends are like you're crazy why you would do that you know yes s to that Simon man what are you doing he like hey uh can we have break tomorrow and oh my god this is my chance this is it this is opportunity I couldn't drink my coffee so I just have to like put that coffee away cuz I was so [Music] nervous this is come featuring my name is Vick and welcome to the show today I'm so excited for you candy fans who are watching this episode on YouTube or listening to this episode on your favorite podcast player because I'm about to talk to this great talented person a fulltime person who until recently has been working abroad for 17 years he's this great person who got great job in Singapore very high up very influential and very successful as the group shift Economist slmd at cgroup so one of the biggest unicorns in Asian you know ROV shopy ringing the bells yeah all those and yet he is very very humble and super nice and very pleasant to talk to I'm sure uh we can learn a lot from him today on this episode and also he's got an opportunity to work with a lot of people from different countries different cultures so I think it might be fun to pick his brain and see and understand um about different perspectives and maybe we'll get to see why sore is so ahead of us what do they do that we don't or it's not because that we don't but we can't we'll find out about that too and finally although he's very young and full of energy he just decided to quit that great job and retired back to the motherland which is Thailand and the question is why I'm wondering too why so I'm going to ask him why on this episode why he decided to come back and uh one thing for sure I think this not because he got so lazy or so wealthy that he doesn't need to work or doesn't want to work anymore he's got his plan and we'll get to listen and see what his plan is on this episode two so please welcome Dr sanan or thank you so much for coming thank you for having me K you you're too kind your introduction yeah I mean every word because we we talked before and I can tell that this interview is going to be great and I'm going to have so much fun talking to you today that's great well that's a lot of pressure actually a healthy kind of pressure I hope okay so in most of your interviews um you always talk about what you think or what the facts are but not so much about yourself so hopefully we'll get to know who you are in English on this episode of Comedy featuring okay so first of all how are you doing you and your family so and and how how long has it been since you came back to Thailand well this is my fifth day um in Thailand uh this time moving the whole family back uh as you said I've been living abroad uh 17 18 years working abroad um and been living in Singapore for the past 13 years um the family has been there uh my two kids were born um in in Singapore as well so they're essentially a global citizen so they're first time moving back to Thailand their ties are not great at all um so to them it's not moving back it's moving away from there exactly exactly it's a first move it's not really moving back we try to convince them that it's actually moving back but they're not convinced and they are like seven and six yeah seven and a half and and six okay so they're about to uh enter the first grade I think yeah there kind of year one of them is year three and one of them is getting year two um so they're in the English uh International School System okay all right so a lot a lot of things uh a lot of changes we handling um bags are not fully unpacked all our boxes are not here yet okay it's going to be a lot of big things to sort out yeah so I think a lot of excitement we can see it that way too excitement exciting excitement um nervousness yeah so are are you usually good with changes uh no not that great I I'm I'm I'm a person who likes to likes to know where we going like they have plans and stuff like that but that said very interesting um I'm also the kind of person to every now and then like to disrupt myself oh um and I actually didn't really know this about myself until recently until look back in my life um I'm I'm working on another book where I have to kind of look back a little bit and I kind of realize actually that's true every five six years or so I tend to find ways to disrupt my own life in different ways um and it's kind of repeated cycle that I've been doing so I don't like changes in general but then at certain juncture I will I would choose to to have a big disruption in life and make changes and embrace all the you know scariness and everything that that comes with that yeah I totally can resonate with that because my cycle is 10 years almost every 10 years something big happened to my life and at first I was kind of like ah no I don't want to change anymore but I ended up like feeling good about the changes almost always yeah yeah exactly are not that scary if we don't let them to be I I guess yes yeah yeah absolutely and I I think there one or two episodes as well where if you kind of Linger on and and stay on and refuse to change that actually the lack of change become more scary scarier than the change yourself you know you kind of start to feel like actually what if you you feel stuck you don't feel comfortable anymore it becomes stuck in in a place and I think that's a really scary feeling for me as well so I think changes sometimes is is great and changes some time help you uh keep true to yourself cuz sometimes the way that um you you also change over time so in order to kind of keep being yourself being true to yourself sometimes you have to change the way you do things that's true okay um do you talk about your childhood a lot anybody asked you about um here and there sometimes not not not not a whole lot yeah I was wondering uh what was Deon like when he was like very like when he was five and he was 10 what was he like like what was he like um I think that those question better ask my friends because they might say different things on my parents but what what I can say is this I think what has been very transformative for me is I changed School a few times uh and it's not because I got kicked out okay no not because of that but uh I think high school years in particular was um so it was s July uh for you know up until um more songs so more too and and then and then after that went to International School banga for two years and then went to England uh boarding school for two years and then University I think those chips uh has been very important drivers in my life because it it CH it changes everything this is back in the days where there were no internet uh it's very hard to kind of come back you know contact get in touch people um there not that many Asian students in school um in the UK back then uh boarding school is very different so a whole experience the whole Chi U was big big thing but I think one thing that it really helped me is that I learned how to be the winner as well as how to be a loser ah in different ways because you could be really good at something in your old school have great friends have great social life and everything then when you achieve School you kind of press reset um in the language of today you unlearn you unlearn a lot of things um you might be really good in in in Thai language and everything but once you shift to English different culture different standards those are no longer your game you're playing a different game sure and you start from the beginning again um so you become like a like a like a loser you become like a a beginner again uh from zero then you build yourself back up um you know gain your confidence uh find your own ways and then you disrupt yourself again and you know maybe looking back that's where all this psycho disruption came from originally was that that because in when I was younger in my childhood I also went through similar things um so you you went you can go from being smartest person in the room to be the dumbest person in a room and going climbing back up and then doing back and forth in different things but I think it's a great experience because I think that's true in life too that that you can build your resilience that kind of growth mindset you know that even though you think how no matter how good you think you are how successful you are they always someone um in different fields who are just as successful or more successful um and you can be a really dumb person in another room as well M so those are like always struggles aren't they like for especially teenagers or especially for someone who hasn't found himself yet in the world like who I am and what am I here for or what am I good at and uh whenever you learn how to be a winner that's great right but you could get like a big head about it and and then when you lose you could be um super like U suffering about it too so how how do you survive all that without um going going bad or going um to the way you're not supposed to go so who who guide you or how do you guide yourself through all those wins and loses yeah you know it's a great question um I think that cycles of going up and down in life helps a lot because when you're uh when you're a winner or when you're kind of on top your game something you still remember what it feels like when you were also kind of you know not recognized or or you you're still struggling and everything so you have that empathy for other people who who are in that position you also know that everything is relative that um I'm here now um but actually am I a very different person from who I was last year in a different place no actually I'm I'm I'm similar maybe I'm a bit better at few things but I'm the same person so it's really which environment you're in which ecosystem are around you what kind of friends you have all of those things matter so everything is relative so you kind of let go of a few things that um Society May label someone as successful this and that but at any event you are you um and you can be winner today you can be loser tomorrow you can be different guy on the next day it doesn't really matter um you just have to be comfortable with being yourself and I think that what what helps with that a lot is have people surrounding yourself who are genuine friends and family who are uh I like this word um they call sometimes they call the disagreeable givers I think it's coming from this book U by Adam Grant dis disagreeable Giver is someone who who disagree with you uh keep you grounded um because they care not just because they want to be pain you know in your life in general but they they care about you so when you get cocky you get bigheaded and everything they would tell you like hey you know what are you doing what's happening with you I don't like who you become and things like that and kind of keep you grounded right um the danger always is that when you're Rising um you're climbing up the ladder and everything is that you lose some of these friends and family you you stop listening to them because you said oh come on I'm I'm I'm too good for you guys now right and when you when you have that you're going to have a EO chamber for yourself who people who just singing praise to you and that's super super dangerous yeah well speaking of family and support you've got a very famous father of course Dr used to be a deputy prime minister he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs and at one point he was a minister of finance so was he a big influence to your life I guess the answer is yes but how how much and how so yeah no absolutely uh of course you know growing up great respect to to my father but also my mother uh my grandparents as well they they they all great influence in my life in in different ways um but influence for my father is interesting I think there's a direct influence about what he he he teaches me you know what was been um showing me um explaining to me um shaping me directly um but there's a lot of indirect as well indirect isn't that the society the pressure they they would put on me like oh you know your father is this of course you have to do this you have to to do that um and I think that's really important too um for someone in my position to kind of establish finding who you are and who you really want to be and not who Society want you to be I see um and honestly I think being abroad helps working abroad uh just it depends on different person right um I know a lot of different friends who take this different way but in my personal way it was really important to go to some place where uh I know that I can't just use my surname I can't just use my family name to open doors I have to go somewhere where I can build my careers test myself and being able to answer myself that can I do it I as me as a person as a ton as San you know how far can I go yeah and really prove yourself um and once you have done that I think you kind of discover yourself you're comfortable with yourself um so I think that's a very big influence M credit to my father he never pressured me anything like that he was like oh do you want to do PhD I don't think you have to do it you know this he always said this it's a world of choices you can do whatever you want um but so great yeah but the pressure around you know from different people is is is real so you can't deny that uh and and so it's important to kind of establish that for yourself your own Journey your own story so how long did it take you to find yourself discover who you actually were long time I think um I think part of it it's always been in the background there uh most of the time I was abroad so it was kind of like you know missions of proving yourself that you can climb up the the corporate ladder to become leaders in you uh uh the in the business World in financial World um having Financial Independence uh earning income to feed the family setting up the good path for them to you know have good education in the future planning for retirement all of those things I think you was part and possible of this you kind of see how far I can go yeah um but at some point I think the priorities start to Chi so it wasn't like black and white like all of a sudden one day it's like hey I'm done I I I'm cool with myself now but it's more gradual it's just other things become uh more important as well so you start to chip from question about focusing on yourself how much uh I can can I do how far can I go proving to myself to thinking more about more outward looking to what can I do to contribute to my community to my Society um now that have gained all this knowledge expertise Network um can I do more yeah I think most people almost like underestimate or uh take for granted the that gradual process because most of the time when they look at someone who successful they only see like the end result of that person but not the journey or when they like watch movie those like struggle process only takes like what 20 minutes in the movie so they don't know the weight of you know the process the whole process the actual thing that actually happening to them and maybe they can always always feel like I'm not going to get there or why isn't things happening to me already Yes have you ever feel that way all the time all the time yeah uh you're absolutely right cuz you look at the books and all this stuff right and and and people's story you look at the endpoint it looks great right and even when you tell your journey it's always a very uh romanticized version of it right like oh I had struggle a little bit then I had a you know PE Climax and happy ever after right it's very kind of Hollywood structure to it uh when real life is much more messy you kind of try so many different things um it's not just failing it's a lot of being lost as well right I think sometimes we can deal with some failure it's like okay okay I'm trying this I'm going to keep trying you just say you're a climber I I couldn't climb this mountain I'm going to keep climbing okay that's that's difficult but some way straightforward but most of the time you don't even know if you want to be a climber it's like I'm going to try different things I tried this not quite tried this maybe I tried this but there setbacks what am I what should I do I think that's the really tough part the Lo being lost um being lonely but I think that's very normal and I think you all have to go through that but it's hard to write about and understand like kind of he you kind of you don't want to be complaining about different how many things I tried right no one wants to listen to that as well so yeah but I think that's a very normal part of the process but um there's a quote that that really helped me um throughout my life I still use it I've been using all along it's life-changing for me uh from it says that uh luck is when preparation meets OPP opportunity it's very simple quote but it's very powerful for me because uh every time I see people and I think my God they're so lucky you know to get to where they are um when you look inside that that's always element of um opportunity that arise but also the preparation that that that they have been doing up until that point so it could well be the case like the picture that I have in my head is you're you're in a sea right you're trying to go forward and you swim over time uh and you're struggling um against the tide but actually this quote reminds me that actually life is kind of like a surfboarding you're a surfboarder like you have a board um holding a board in your hand if you're prepared and you always have a board in your hand you always look out for the big wave to come one day the wave will come the question is when the wave come are you prepared have you been looking at it do you still have the board in your hand if you do you have all of that you can actually go very far very fast and scientifically there's a term for this it's called nonlinear life is not a straight line it's kind of sometimes there's a lot of period where it seems like nothing happened there's no wave at all but one day when it comes it's so powerful Bey beyond your imagination um so you have to wait for that but don't just wait because if you just wait it's like you're just swimming you're just hanging out in the water you don't have boards when the wave come you can't catch it so you have to always be prepared um so that some one day opportunity will come and you're ready to catch that wave so I think that has helped me tremendously uh at every point in my life where critical turns when when I got to the PHD program um when I uh uh moved to finance got a job in finance when I change a job to Tech was all around because of this quote entirely I totally agree with that and uh but it cannot be like 50 and 50 right luck uh when you mention luck and uh preparation and opportunity so which which one do you give more credit to like according to your life and what you have done like you have more preparation or more like opportunity in in your life preparation preparation preparation yeah you have a lot of preparation um that's the part you control more yeah the opportunity you don't fully control it um yeah like the wave you can't really control it there there are some things you can do around opportunity that I I learned over the years um exposing yourself to different network different society different communities help increase because then you you happen to sometimes stumble on someone that might know someone might connect with someone so the dots get connected and opportunity arise but most of the time what you can do is prepared especially when you're younger when you're younger opportunity is tend to be even less under your control so all you can do is just prepare and prepare and do your best and different things um and you know I I I wrote this in my my first book it was a good illustration of this so I got a chance to so I applied you asked about my father earlier so one of the dream I used I had back then was um because I I was there when my father graduated um from Harvard PhD in law school he's the only tie that uh I think still is the only time that graduated Harvard Law School PhD called sjd um and I was there in a Harvard Yard you know when I was probably six kind of my son's age right now uh just standing there at a graduation ceremony you know he's him wearing gown and I have that picture and I think deep down I always want to my God I really wanted one day I'm going to be there wearing a gown and my parents will be there right um so always dreamed to kind of do get get a degree of pver um get a PhD there uh of course very difficult um and I applied many times I didn't get in uh so it was kind of like my last attempt and I I was working with this uh Nobel Prize uh Economist uh in New York and I know that if I manage to impress him and he write a good recommendation for me that would increase my chance quite a lot um it was but he's so busy I have about two three months working with him and he's never around uh it's not his fault I mean he's he's you know super famous guy um so he travels all the time so he kind of assigned me some work and like hey you work on this um you know I'll come back and look at it and they keep postponing the meeting and you know all my friends and people who kind of work with him said like oh just you know he's like this don't worry about it you know you've done what he asked you right then just chill just enjoy New York you know there so many things here you know here's the West Village here's the up East Side whatever it is I like okay great um but but then to me I I took that opportunity and said okay the opportunity never really came but you know what if it what if he comes up and call me one day and say Hey you know San come and uh uh uh let me see what you have done and you know I done what he said but I feel like I feel like there there more things I could do so I decided to took my own way as like I'm not going to do it the way that he asked me to do it I'm going to try my own way different things oh right cuz I'm gu that I think this is what he wants um but his way may not be the best I think I might have another way I'm just going to try this and all my friends say like you're crazy why would you would do that you know right and um and how also they might feel like why why would you think you could know better than the stick to the assignment stick to the assignment man what are you doing you know uh so I I kept doing that and but but I was I was not confident about it so I did and kind of keep in this kind of blue folder and you know that's it okay and then it it happened kind of just right before the end of the work uh opportunity internship thing um um the the guy uh he he called me up and said hey uh can we have breakfast tomorrow and I was like oh my god this is my chance this is it this is opportunity yeah I super nervous I went to the this restaurant um at cafes with him H sit down breakfast I ordered you know big coffee uh then I realized that I I I I pour in a lot of sugar cuz I try to kind of get myself a boost but it turned out to be salt what cuz I was so nervous so how nervous you were I couldn't drink my coffee so I just have to like put that coffee away all right so I'm also like pretty you know don't have my my my needed caffeine and everything not to a good start not have a good start at all I presented what he wanted me to do to him then he was like okay yeah that's all right but you know not super impressed not super impressed not super impressed and he was like um but you know he didn't blame me as well he's like well you know maybe my method didn't work out so well so very nice about it mhm um then he kind of like talk about oh so what you doing after this what the opportunity so kind of like wrapping things up right uh I was like my God this is only 30 minutes into breakfast you know um oh this is disaster uh then I realized like uh then he said oh uh do you have something else for me um I said you know what I do uh I have this blue folder stuffff you know let me take it out I took it out and I explained to him you know I I I I tried you know my voice checking I tried this way I'm not sure with this right I think it's probably wrong but can you look at it and he looked at it went quiet and he was like wow it's like you did this yourself it's like yeah yeah yeah uh you know he like wow this actually might be something and he was like okay um we can work on this and he said do you know what I have to fly to Manchester in the UK tomorrow can you come with me so you can talk me about this through this I was like oh my God yeah sure of course and then we talk and you know the breakfast went on for 2 hours wow um I went back had to find did to get me a flight to fly with him uh carrying his back around in Manchester um just to talk to him and yeah no it went well he wrote me a recommendation um I got into in in a uh Harvard the PHD program and that I wanteded the the the work in a blue uh folder became my master degree thesis which earned me an award for best dist station I used the same one to got a scholarship for PhD in Harvard um and that that was part of my PhD thesis and that that that that changed everything around so luck was when all that preparation waiting for that one opportunity that just came that one breakfast and that one question that asks do you have something else for me and then preparation aka the blue folder the BL folder always have your Blue Fold have your blue folder yeah wow and it repeats this kind of thing repeats during the you know I don't want to bore everyone but doing the same thing when it got into the finance it got applied it got rejected so many times at the tech part very similar things happen and the funny thing is is that when when all this thing happened I remember the blue folder and I knew that oh this is you know when the do the tunnel seem so dark I remember that that always a blue folder that I should prepare because someday the light may come and then I have to do something about it and and because of that lesson keep repeating itself every now and then and it it really changed my life yeah it has become a pattern become pattern yeah that keep recurring in your life that's a great story and I think that is something that we can totally actually use use so most most of us don't even think about the blue folder because extra work right why do we have to do like extra work while we have like great assignment from a Noble Prize la like yeah wouldn't dare think anything outside of that right yeah right yeah I I really think it sound crazy for you to like do something else uh besides the assignment itself but it turns out to be a lifesaver for you you know what you use word crazy it's really interesting um I thought about that a lot because my friend said that to me but then but then I I I flipped it around and I I I I remember telling this to myself that actually you know what's crazier what's crazier is to have this great opportunity to work with Nobel price and to not try everything you can everything to kind of capture and see this opportunity that's even crazier than having the blue folder M and I think that that was a lot of things that that in my life as well kind of like you know it's crazier to not change it's crazier to to to to not try your best and do everything you can to achieve something and I think that's what preparation is in my definition yeah so status quo not your thing doing things that as like it is it was yeah I I think you have to have that to be honest um if you imagine you're your imagine Life as a kind of you're driving a very long journey I think these are the kind of the key Crossroads you have to make make right you have to make the right turn but but but there are times when you're not at a junction you're not at a crossroad as well and you're just on a normal straight and you have to drive I also know people who who sometimes do the opposite also not not not healthy where they they're driving but they're always looking left and right I like oh is can I turn here can they change that then you never really put in the work right because you're always looking to jump ship all the time that's not great too so there there are times in life where you just have to grind it you just have to do it um drive on that road you do your best but then always there's a time when you have to kind of slow down and look for the right crossroad that make the right turns as well so life is about balancing the two things in my view at least my humble opinion uh and getting that mix right is is an art M well when we talked last time uh talking about driv analogy so you used to say something along those lines of like you kind of compare yourself as the F1 driver who has been racing all his all his life uh at full speed and this is actually the first time you hit the break yeah yeah yeah let's talk more about that for our audience that's right that's right oh yeah absolutely so I think a lot of people uh in in similar position as I kind of work uh especially when you work abroad um I I think this is different um when you work as an exper in in different countries you you know it's not your home even know how how comfortable you are so you you feel like you have you don't have the right to be there unless you're good right you don't have the birth right so so you're in the foreign land if you don't have jobs you're not good at what you do they're going to send you home or you don't have money to live there so so you always have to kind of prove yourself you always have to kind of move forward um um so we end up driving very fast if you compare you know you setting an analogy you always F1 you you keep going going going um and when you drive very fast like that you don't have a lot of time to kind of look around around you so you don't really know where where you are you just keep focusing because the car is going so fast um and it's amazing um the kind of things that that you you locked into that that life very fast and life will just flash past you by um what I realized is that if you have time to slow down um you start to see a lot of things better you start to have things like for example you start to see outside your window like oh actually it's pretty nice view outside you know it's very nice screen here then you know where where we are um you might end up in a place you like or you don't like but then you realize like where you are um you start to realize who's sitting in a car with you so your family your kids your friends um you start to pay more attention to person who's right in front of you which I think is really uh an understating is so important um and then you start to have a think about you know where you are in on a map on a big grand scheme of things where am I going where's my life going you know I have done this I've done this and once you have done all of that it's amazing um you get a perspective and you start to ask all these questions and that's when you get to this you know making the right turn at the Crossroad juncture so that that's that this is the first time I I I do that uh fully in the past I slow down a little bit around the where the point I changed my life but I never slow down this much so this time is the first time it's like hey I'm just going to come back to Thailand I'm going to uh not do full-time job I'm going to start take a new phase of life where I see where life takes me I'm going to have a few portfolio of jobs around um not just one uh we can talk more about it later um but I'm just going to plan to not have a plan oh that's nice yeah yeah and and it is it could be very hard for some people because is their nature to plan things right and was it in yours I'm struggling as we speak you know even when after I say that I feel like Ching a little bit really really yeah no it's it's hard what I can say is slowing down uh is great I think it gives you uh to focus on yourself your family people around you think about your life more um what that might takes you I think is different for different people for me I think having that this uh slowing down and having a bit of a break and change the approach to My Life um having a plan to not get everything planned out I think that's helpful uh for me um and yeah no I think it's it's it's it's going to be fun uh but also like a bit quite nervous as well yeah yeah I asked you once uh in our last conversation and I'm sure a lot of people want asked you this is that what are you going to be doing now that you have moved back here for good and you you told me that you want to see three kind of connections happening Oh yeah talk more about that that's right yeah for sure yeah so on one hand is about not having everything planned out right not having your path plan out but on the other one I think you still need to have like a compass like a broad Compass whereas you're North right um and I think my mission kind of my nor North uh star is three things that I want to do next SP in life number one I want to connect Thailand to the world and the world to Thailand more um having been living abroad for a long time I think Thailand can benefit a lot from getting the views learning from the world and also the world can be learning from Thailand as well so connect those make that connection that's one it's very broad it can be many things uh number two is around connecting uh different gener ations together uh the young leaders Generation Um the older generation the more senior generation senior leaders uh I think there are a lot of generation gaps I feel like um the middle generation the S generation in between and there's a lot of rooms for connecting different generation which can be very powerful for society uh for Organization for teams for communities um and thirdly connecting people without opportunities the underserved to Opportunities um in some ways I've done that through my my role in kind of technology and different things but I want to do more of that um and and and reduce inequality um so to speak so these are the three broad principles and anything I do from here on whether it's the the the selection of jobs portfolio of jobs I do um projects um writing everything it will have to fit this broad principles so um the second connection you want to help make is the connection between Generations yeah so what is what is your take on each uh generation right now like looking at the teens these day what do you see what I see these days it's interesting uh it's G I'm trying to think this can get me a lot of trouble here from theid oh all right okay so so so I've done some research on this so so I I took one of this uh program called rule of law for development or LD um and and anyway part of the group project that we had to do was um kind of understanding the generation gaps so I did a very interesting um uh kind of thought experiment uh one of which is I asked myself this question that um if we meet someone from other countries right let's say meet someone from from England from France and we talk about politics about democracy about something which is you don't know now can be controversial stuff right um and they have very different opinion or even religion right and they have very different views from us are we mad at them would we be mad at them like okay not really right because it's like why why why are we not mad uhhuh it's because we assume that they must be different anyway because they're born in different culture they have like we are not surprised we expect them to be different and therefore when they show that they are indeed different doesn't matter I mean we we we know that oh sure right sure sure it's fine I respect your view because you know you you're born in different world from from ours right then let's take that and bring it to Generations when we talk to different Generations let's say we are older generation talk to young kid younger generations and we found that hey um actually they think very different from us right we tend to get a little bit annoyed right yeah or even piek a five with them like yeah hey yeah you got to think this way how can you think like this right yeah then why do why do we do that why don't we do that to to the Imp person from England from from you know France from but why are we doing that to to our youth because we expect them to be the same as us we expect them to be the same and why do we expect them to be the same is because we think hey you were tii we were born in the same country same culture right yeah then I I did this exercise where I map out um different Generations which Thailand they were born in into so when they're babies when they go to school um when they're start their first jobs when they're building a careers you know from the kind of like the the the baby boomer the X the Y the Z the alpha and what I found was my God it's like different country you know for example if you take um um someone who's kind of I think Born 60s or something 50 50s probably and and they are they the first time then when they enter like kind of Workforce right they they graduate from from University and to find jobs Thailand was growing economy was growing like 7% a year yeah your economy was booming it was kind of shifting from agriculture to manufacturing I'm not saying it's easy for them they have to work hard but it's the world is not changing that that it's not shifting around like this it's kind of like you know you work hard and you get to where you are and the growth opportunity is there you just have to work hard right but if you you are um kind of born uh much later in you're like early 20s right and then you you entered a market in say like 10 years ago um you you're you're going to find jobs at a time when the economy was growing on average about 3% less than half of all that um you have a lot of digital disruptions um technology is changing so you can be studying like all these things your Finance everything and now all of a sudden you're not really in Demand anymore um you have Co you know you you work in the tourism industry you want to do this and you got disrupted massively um and and so all of these things happening right uh then you if you tell them that hey just work hard stay work hard and and keep at it and you get to where you are yeah same whole pH philosophy right it's like like no I work so hard yet you know it's not my fault that there's a CO I work so hard to to to go into Hospitality I work so hard to be in finance and got disrupted banking got disrupted all of these changes and economy the opportunity is not there so you can empathize with both people who who the older generation who said you have to work hard why you don't have any kind of resilience any git right you can understand with them because they're born in that age and that's how they got to where they are yeah but you can also empathize with the youth and said like I did all of that and did none of them work because for me actually choosing which path to go can matters more than than the work right if I choose the right industry oh my God I'm like if you are working sustainably now you're in demand doesn't matter right you so so is that kind of thing and once you kind of map that out you realize that you actually born in different Thailand different era the world changed so much Thailand has changed so much it's a different era what we need to have is the kind of open-mindedness and empathy the same way you have with a foreigners if when you talk to your youth in your house or you know uh my my my kids or same way the other way by the way talking to your parents uh your grandparents you have to realize that you're born in essentially almost a different country different societ different version um and if you think can think of them as just like a foreigners who would be living abroad M the conversation might not be so contentious you can be very different and you don't have to think the same way but you can respect each other and you can work with one another so which do you think is harder for the young to reaching out to the old or the old to reaching out to the young yeah it's great question uh I think both are difficult but um I do think that if if if if we have if you want to break the cycle of misunderstanding and lack of trust someone has to start right it's kind of like a circle someone has to start um being a bigger person and say okay I'm going to be the the bigger bigger guy here um I think it should be the adult since they accumulated more experience and wisdom over the years supposedly supposedly so um and I think once and to be to be honest if you talk about organization they tend to be in position of power as well um so they they it's really hard for an organization team Community uh for for if if someone in power says you know I don't want this culture you have to listen to me this is a top down thing it's really hard for some someone Junior to said no but you know you should listen to me we should have this empathy it's like no right but if the boss set the example for the whole organization that can set the culture that makes sense and I think also in some aspect it's not just the age thing anymore not just the generation thing for example like let's take politics you can't just divide and say that okay the young like one thing and the adult would like other thing it's not always like that so yeah how do we resolve that no policy is much harder so in POS project I said first thing I said is like hey look I'm I'm not doing I'm not I'm I'm looking at the generation gaps and stuff but I'm not really handling the political conflict because political conflict as you said is much more complicated it's not just a generation thing it's true that political conflicts in Thailand contributed to the generation gaps and partly is exacerbated by the generation gaps so generation make it harder to talk to each other um and the politics also add so it's kind of like two ways but it's not all about that I have seen a lot of generational conflicts which has nothing to do with politics at all it could just be you know uh looking at the news on social media um about you know pop star about some movies and just have different takes on it right ethics yeah the ethics all it's all kinds of things I think those things this kind of empathy opening up each other can can help um but politics is is harder because sometimes it's not just about that but it's also kind of Interest M involved it's not just ideology sometimes it's about interest as well sometimes it's not just about um hey you know uh uh where where where you are ideologically but it's about I'm losing out from this right um and entails a lot of things like change sometimes the older generation of course they they have been living in certain way for for all their lives they they tend to like change less and less right I I also notice that my myself I like change less and less over time I like things more the same whereas for youth um the future most of their lives is still ahead of them uh and changes normal and changes tend to favor them so it's good so they like change uh a lot of old don't really like change that much so some of those things are just kind of different interest as well it's it's hard to align it's a human thing actually human yeah the nature of human yeah yeah and and highp politics in particular is even more complicated than that take one step further because it it's all kinds of um issues that have been accumulated the social divide the economic inequalities the inequality in Opportunities which let's not talk good into that I I mean we can talk about this for another three hours but now let's move on to the number three on your list which is actually we we have touched a little bit on this subject before like the opportunities so how do we um connect people with opportunities that they deserve to have or there's an inequality in the society which prevent them from from getting the same opportunities as others yeah yeah so this is um this is kind of the The Economist in me right thinking about the inequality problems and I think the biggest problem in inequality is the inequality of opportunities um you can have inequality of outcome to some extent right because if you're you're in a capitalism Society you're in a competition so they'll be winners and there'll be losers um so you can't eliminate the inequality somewhat outcomes uh entirely but what matters I think is the inequality of opportunities um and what I mean by that is the opportunity to access for example good education uh without having good education it's very hard to to kind of Empower yourself your family and get good jobs and and climb up the ladder right um opportunities to access uh some funding financing you may have great business ideas um and you could become very successful entrepreneurs but if you can't access Finance at all then this you can't even start it um so a lot of those things and and I think there's a lot that can be done uh I work past five years in a technology sector and I do think that technology is a very important tool a very powerful Tool uh it it is also a double-edged sort so on one hand I see the positive side of it where you can help people access um different things opportunity much better like for example you know having access to different kind of uh uh uh in finance for example we do like a lot of people can Access Loans can get loans much more easily because of Technology the data on them people they don't have to put down their house their cars people can actually understand them based on their digital Footprints what they buy what they deal um whether if say say they're they they sellers on um e-commerce platforms you know traditionally they might be Shan off um getting loans because it's like you don't have any collateral you don't have the Sal salary slips and stuff like that but in the tech world you can say no actually I know you're you're you're very successful I can see from your sales I can see your presence I I know all the behavior I can use this and I can lend to you and you can become successful online uh sellers right yeah um through is in education as well uh education you can help having online education content um can help a lot of people who want to Res skill want to change their life later in life they they may not be able to have time to take time off to go to school they still need to work to earn fulltime but online education make it much more flexible for them kind of learn adopt new skill try new careers there's so many things like that I think that technology can help so I think that's part I'm passionate about but also it works on the flip side because if you have um uh different digital literacy and skills then it could also make inequality worse because those people without um access to digital technology or don't know how to use the digital tools don't know how to use these apps they can be even worse right and we've seen that during Co like if you distribute money to help people through digital apps but some of the people don't have access to digital they don't know how to use it they don't don't get the help then that's problematic as well so I think this is where I think I'm I'm a big believer in technology but I think the technology has to go to the people rather than forcing people to come to the technology I really enjoy our talk and I have been learning a whole lot and we have been talking about ideas and uh thoughts so my last question to you is what is going to be your next action right what is the thing that you will do next here in Thailand wow it's very uh good question um I will spend a lot of time focusing on my family for um because big change for them I want to make sure I give them sufficient time um to adjust you know where house is still being built or kids going to start a new school we adjusting everything so of course that's immediate thing but for me it's really about um again coming back to plan not to have a plan to not be too committed is to reconnect with the Thai community and thinking and asking always what can I do how can I help what role can I play um to help so you're not opening of your own brand or firm or company no no okay um but you will seek partnership is that it like working together with the right people yeah yeah yeah that that's a part I think where I have learned about myself uh is that I really enjoy working with the right set of people that's really important to me some people you know could be just P impact contribution some people it's about Prestige and stuff for me it's about people I work with so um it can be many things but if I have a chance to work with people I like um people I want to enable I think that's really rewarding for me so there already some things that I'm I'm doing apart from the some advisory job which I'm already doing abroad in Thailand I recently uh founded a a I would say a young leadership program um that brought together curated uh kind of young leaders from different uh uh sectors together um and we call it the change maker Academy of change maker AC um and yeah basically uh it's it's a bit different from from other programs you see in the market because as the name says these are what what we think are the change makers the one who's driving changes right um and I think they are in a stage where important transition stage for them because they're they're young younger they they they're rising up very fast in their rank they become leaders very young age very accomplished already but they are thinking about the next steps how do they create further impact how do they think how to take the next steps in life in their careers and everything so we create this I would say a trusted uh community of learning so they learn from each other um it it's a safe space they can share the frustration they don't have to just talk about their success um they can take off their their hats and there who and come together as humans at people and get to know each other better and support each other so that's a program I'm doing we have finished one batch we are going to start a second batch soon uh this for ex this is one example of things I'm doing and I'm really passionate about it I love doing it it's just so rewarding but things like this um and more that I might discover along the way sounds great sounds very exciting and please keep keep us posted and if you have any story to tell have any updates feel free to drop by and have a talk with us for sure oh yeah and I'm also writing a third book oh okay yeah I forgot about that okay so any like um preview uh to this new book of yours some of the stuff we talked about um so the very broad theme that I can share I guess is it's going to be a putting together the lessons I have learned living abroad and and and through my life to different sectors different careers so try those synthesize it bring it one so when can we expect this book uh well my editor expect me to finish end of this year and should come out next year yes and I so early 2024 work hard and and hopefully get to that all right and of course we at the standard are looking forward to um doing fun project with you hopefully in the future yeah so thank you so much for coming to the show thank you for having me the standard economic Forum 2023 Future Ready for that

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Id: -tdG0uQuFIs

Length: 56min 37sec (3397 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 04 2023