Zen 5's CRAZY IPC & Performance - Making Sense Of The Rumours

in March of 2017 a major event happened AMD released the first generation of ryzen processor and with that of course Zen actually debuted now this was a huge event in the industry because well quite frankly up until that point it had been a one horse race for x86 processors AMD in the past had competed favorably with Intel with processors such as the early apons Bartons and even aflon 64 but later into processors had simply just outperformed AMD particularly when it comes to certain tasks such as gaming and while the first generation of ryzen as well as its kind of successor Zen plus also known as ryzen 2000 didn't outperform Intel in terms of gaming it did mean that AMD were firmly ahead in terms of the core count it was very performant still in gaming pretty damn good especially after some bios updates and really did mean that Intel had to be for forced essentially to release coffee link earlier than what it had wanted to this basically meant that mainstream Intel processors went from four cores sl8 Freds at the highest end SK up to of course six cores 12 Freds with the 8700k and AMD was still doing great in productivity tasks and then future AMD processors particularly Zen 2 onwards have really just done absolutely amazing against Intel but one thing is absolutely for sure amd's release schedule for Zen has been absolutely Relentless and honestly it just hasn't missed Zen 2 Zen 3 Zen 4 and as you probably guess from the video title Zen 5 is now shaping up to be an absolute monster of a processor and in this video I want to talk to you guys a little bit about this Zen 5 is going to be found of course in servers laptops and for the majority of my audience anyway I suspect you're probably going to be interested in Granite Ridge which of course will be on am5 as also known as the desktop now frankly I've heard a dizzying number of IPC and performance claims with the next generation of ryen processes in this video I really want to talk to you guys about some things I've been hearing from some sources particularly when it comes to bandwidth constraints and try to make some sense of things now I do suspect that we're going to get some pretty damn solid information probably from leaks from amd's Partners over the next couple of months but until then I really want to talk to you guys about this because quite frankly Zen 5 is one of those products that really does start to grip my imagination sometimes certain products like rdna2 has done it in the past RTX 20 did as well when we're starting to go into the ra tracing era and I will be super curious to find out what actually happens with Zen 5 well let's just get right into it shall we this is a paid partnership with better help better help is a great way to take your first steps to improving your mental health with a service which offers 100% online therapy life is is certainly capable of throwing you some curve balls but it doesn't mean that you need to deal with them alone with the right support 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touch on it kind of here or there ultimately speaking I think it's best for us to focus mostly on clock speeds and of course the IPC it's worth noting though and this is well-known information at this point given lots of leaks that 16 cores 32 threads is still going to be retained for Zen 5 so there's no difference there not they're not increasing the core count and of course they will also release the x3d chips as well so what about the clock frequency well basically I've been given a lot of reports from sources regarding the clock frequency targets but ultimately speaking there's not a huge difference from one report to another several sources have told me that the clock frequencies for Granite Ridge will have a small regression versus the previous generation ryzen chips and others are telling me there's going to be a slight bump one source told me around 5.85 GHz another told me just over 6 gz but this could be at Max Speed and potentially also single core lightly threaded workload and it becomes very difficult to know exactly what clock frequencies you're going to hit because of course different workloads can have huge differences as well well not to mention the fact that what's the state of the es sample what was the set of of the system for example PBO and that type of stuff it's very difficult but ultimately speaking there's also the reason that tsmc are going to be using their 4 andm process for the um Granite Ridge processors and some Zen 5 CPUs of course do benefit from the free NM processor but they're like churing um cheering dents for example so the um 4 ANM process is basically refinement of the 5 andm process so you can only expect so much particularly given the fact that the actual cause themselves are a lot denser and there are some big architectural improvements from one generation to another now again I've spoken about this pretty exhaustively in the past but basically speaking there is a lot of changes that we're going to see for Zen 5 and it's going to be very interesting to be honest when we get official disclosures across the entire thing with this said there is some evidence courtesy of a recent shipping manifest that's emerged the TDP for certain has actually increased one example we've seen is an 8 core am5 uh CPU from of course the Zen 5 lineup being listed as 170 wats this is actually up from 105 wats of the zen4 based equivalent now naturally you could put this down to let's say a mistake that is perhaps from a typo or maybe simply because these are not final production samples and so things could change for retail but it's also very possible that AMD have made some changes and therefore some of the confusion we've seen regarding the clocks is because AMD are bumping up the juice for certain SKS now this is definitely speculation on my part but perhaps also the boosting behavior of Zen 5 ryzen's Granite Ridge is also different with higher core counts as well it'll be very interesting to see what actually ends up happening here because again there is a little bit of confusion and as much as I'm very curious about the actual IPC and um some of the other stuff we're discussing such as memory bandwidth I will be very curious to see how the boosting Behavior differs from different workloads so then let's get to the real nitty-gritty which is IPC again clock frequencies we can't really expect those to increase too much so IPC is the major reason of course that we're going to see people want to upgrade from one generation to another and well honestly there have been a lot of numbers that I've been given in terms of IPC and a lot of numbers that have been touted or guessed online now I have heard some very very high numbers in terms of IPC and I'll speak about them in just a second but personally speaking I am going to be essentially hoping for 20% average um and that's kind of what I'm telling myself I have heard from very good sources that it could well be more than that and again I'll get into them in just a second but 15 to 20% has been typically the historical average that AMD have increased Zen by let's take um Zen to Zen plus out of the equation because obviously that was a small refresh with a couple of small changes here or there with the caches so yeah I think 15 to 20% has been pretty historical there have been some bigger improvements AMD have done in the past with like uh the aflon chips I think was absolutely ridiculous they actually catapulted past Pentium 3 even we saw of course the um well when they went from like bulldozer and all those CPUs which were you know they were decent I suppose for budget and then of course the first generation of ryzen I think the original Target was something like 40% IPC and they hit like 52 so you know again there's certainly a lot of precedent that you can get a ridiculous jump in performance and this is where I want to talk to you guys about now so previously I did release a video from a source and that source is a very good one that they had been hearing from multiple people within the industry that low 30% IPC was being touted for a Zen 5 CPU this was under a mixed workload with a couple of different popular benchmarks after I put that video out I was then contacted by another source they had actually been radio silent for months like absolute multiple months but in the past they had been really really really good but again they just had been really radio silent they hadn't actually answered any uh messages that I'd given them but in brief they essentially confirmed the numbers that I'd given in that video which again was around 30 is% but they also added that um the numbers were actually based on some older information dating back to Q4 last year so that's 2023 if you're watching this you know a couple of years time and produced using the b0 Silicon since then um AMD have apparently done a respin I've been this by a couple of people and so numbers now may have improved a little bit again as well because you also have improvements in the software version so with that said there has been some information that has of course been pretty much confirmed by AMD they have in slides official slides said that there's going to be a groundup redesign there's going to be multiple improvements that they have mentioned offici officially excuse me but there have been also some reports that we're going to see up to two performance increase in as over Zen 4 in AVX 512 this is actually um causing some people to be concerned because mining of cubic is actually quite profitable on Zen 4 funly enough so obviously if you get double the performance on Zen 5 that's going to be well let's just say interesting now more recently I've had yet more people tell me that 30% IPC gains are likely which of course would be absolutely incredible now we do know that there have been improvements to decoders and just well about everything again I've covered this more exhaustively in the past but even um some patents even slipped under the radar at least mine maybe it's common knowledge but I certainly didn't see it back in like 2022 there was a title of one uh patent which had processor with multiple Fetch and decode pipelines and also processor with multiple op uh cache pipelines and again you can see them on screen now this seems of course to be Zen 5 based because well you know it's not like AMD putting a patent out for like an SSD with these names let's just be honest so yeah I think we can just say well it's probably going to be Zen uh five because previous generations of Zen just don't make sense and obviously it's not like they're going to have a patent you know out at this stage for like Zen 7 or something like that so yeah anyway it's going to be interesting to see official disclosure of course from AMD regarding Zen 5 but while all of that does sound very positive um I am hearing that the performance on Granite Ridge is often being significantly hampered by bandwidth now basically the IOD um seems to be essentially identical from the previous generation ien 4 uh there are some modest improvements I'm hearing to nudge the memory clocks but basically workloads will always differ of course and how how much they tax memory uh it's going to be like the number of threads that's loaded what type of work and so on and so on but basically in a lot of workloads it seems that um the performance at least according to these sources is essentially being strangled by lack of ram now this may not be the case of course for churin because well it's a completely different thing and well it doesn't have dual memory channels to contend with it obviously has a couple more memory channels than just two but um it's it's going to be very interesting because this could potentially mean that it's the case of like the body is willing but sorry the mind is willing but the body isn't able or in this case the chip is technically able but the bandwidth just can't feed the cause now it's worth pointing out of course that there will be vcash variants which launch later but obviously vcash doesn't hold gigabytes of data which is of course the job of the ddr5 memory therefore V is probably going to help in certain applications as say assuming of course again this information is true but it also isn't going to help in every situation it's certainly not going to be a silver bullet now I have on the other hand while I've had multiple sources tell me 30% plus does seem quite likely I've also had some sources absolutely convinced and to be fair again they've been pretty accurate that 15 to 20% is the average that they are hearing and they do not believe this is because of bandwidth but simply because of architectural goals basically AMD were essentially designing Zen 5 to be let's say 15 to 20% improvement over Zen 4 and well that's all the isk to it I've spoken to a lot of sources about this and I even asked some sources who told me the higher numbers well why are other people telling me the lower numbers because this is really bloody confusing and um well basically the push back I got is that uh in one case someone basically told me AMD literally knew slides would leak and so there's potentially sandbagging going on or another source told me it was bandwidth constraints now I don't really know whether the sandbagging theory is true or not but I will add that combating leaks is now becoming a really big part of AMD Nvidia Intel you know like all of these companies like there's been a recent um uh tweet by Tom Henderson where he basically said that with all the the PlayStation 5 Pro leaks um because obviously those documents came out um and now like digital Foundry and himself and yeah it's just like there have been so many parts of the documents now that have leaked uh Sony just kind of said yeah well at this point we're going to tell Studios the bare minimum um and we're basically going to strictly control things and that's actually going to kind of suck by the way for the PS5 Pro as a slight as side because it could mean that someone tell me in fact a couple of people tell me that the 30% number is for integer but they are from server samples so client could end up being lower than that but it's going to honestly be absolutely intriguing to see what AMD does as we go forward of course perhaps this is also dependent upon the skew based on what we had already spoken about earlier regarding the Zen 5 shipping manifests frankly I will be super interested to see what Zen 5 as well as Zen 6 does bring to the table speaking just briefly on Zen 6 as I've covered this kind of extensively in another video well maybe a month or so back Zen 6 really does seem like it is an evolution of sorts of Zen 5 basically it takes a lot of the principles that Zen 5 has brought to the table such as some of the stuff we've discussed here such as the wider you know architecture and all of that stuff but what it does do is solve a lot of the bandwidth constraints and it basically it does this with a lot of advanced packaging early on with zen6 leaks I had said that it's kind of like n31 in that respect in terms of the packaging but I think it's fairer to say in reality that it's more like sarac AKA The stricks Point Halo SKS I've been told that the packaging is kind of like info r that info dashr for FYI and honestly I think that zen6 will be interesting because while IPC gains are probably going to be less in terms of the actual architecture you know in terms of what's changed from Zen 5 to Zen 6 in terms of like you know the FP units or whatever I think actual IPC games could be pretty performant indeed simply because well there's just more data that can be fed to the CPU cuse and as you know the Convoy with computer architectures typically goes as fast as the slowest ship basically if the you know cuse are just like H oh look there's some data that's not great so it's going to be very interesting to see what AMD does bring to the frow for the next couple of generations because the reality is Intel is certainly not going to be sitting on its hands I will be I will be fascinated honestly to see how the benchmarks for um Aral Lake and future Intel architectures actually shape up especially because of course AR lake is going byby to hyper threading uh for the performance calls I've heard that there will be an arrow Lake refresh as well which is probably going to be 32 e calls so the eore spam is certainly going to be alive um but anyway I think that's just about it for this particular video hopefully you've enjoyed it I'll see you soon guys take care of yourselves bye for now

Channel: RedGamingTech

Views: 17,129

Keywords: amd, ryzen, zen 6, zen 5, zen 5 ipc, zen 5 benchmark, core countryzen 8000, amd roadmap, ryzen roadmap, amd ryzen roadmap, amd cpu roadmap, specs, specifications, hardware specs, core count, cores, zen 5 specs, zen 6 specs, performance, ipc, ipc gains, gaming performance, benchmark, intel vs amd, zen 5 ipc gains, zen 5 performance, leak, details, zen 5 architecture, intel, battlemage, intel arc, intel battlemage, nvidia, rtx 50, nvidia blackwell, news

Id: k3m93NpXJBs

Length: 20min 27sec (1227 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 31 2024