>> James: OUR
NEXT GUEST IS A CELEBRATED HISTORIAN, PHILOSOPHER AND BEST
SELLING AUTHOR WHOSE BOOKS HAVE SOLD NEARLY 30 MILLION COPIES
WORLDWIDE, HIS NEWEST BOOK SAPIENS, A GRAPHIC HISTORY IS
BRILLIANT AND OUT RIGHT NOW, PLEASE WELCOME ONE OF THE
BRIGHTEST MINDS AN PLANET EARTH, THE INCREDIBLE YEW VAL NOAH
HARARI-- YUVAL NOAH HARARI. THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK ON THE
SHOW, WE ARE SO HAPPY. >> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME
AGAIN. >> James: WE WOULD HAVE YOU ON
EERY WEEK, JUST FOR ME PERSONALLY FOR MY OWN SENSE OF
SELF BECAUSE WE BOTH, I THINK IT WAS NEARLY SEVEN MONTHS AGO,
ABOUT A MONTH INTO THE PANDEMIC. >> YES. >> James: HOW ARE YOU DOING? WHAT IS THE CURRENT SITUATION IN
ISRAEL RIGHT NOW. >> WELL, I'M DOING FINE, MY
HUSBAND IS OKAY, MY FAMILY IS OKAY. BUT MY COUNTRY ISN'T OKAY. THE SITUATION BOTH MEDICALLY AND
POLITICALLY IS GOING REALLY FROM BAD TO WORSE. >> WELL YEAH, I MEAN THAT FEELS
TRUE OF WHEN I SPEAK TO MY PARENTS IN BRITAIN, IT FEELS
TRUE OF WHEN I TURN ON THE NEWS HERE IN AMERICA. I MEAN WE'VE JUST GONE THROUGH A
VERY DIFFICULT ICIVE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION-- DIVISIVE
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HERE. FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS
YOUR TAKE ON HOW THIS ELECTION HAS PLAYED OUT. >> WELL, ON THE ONE HAND THE
GOOD NEWS ASK THAT AS FAR AS CAN I TELL IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
PEACEFUL, IN TERMS OF THE ABSENCE OF PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. >> James: YEAH. >> WHICH IS A VERY GOOD SIGN. ON THE OTHER HAND, YEAH, THE
LEVEL OF NOT JUST HATRED BETWEEN AMERICAN CITIZENS IS REALLY
ALARMING. YOU KNOW, IN PREVIOUS, I DON'T
KNOW, 50 YEARS AGO, AMERICANS OF ALL POLITICAL SIDES WERE AFRAID
OF FOREIGNERS, THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING, TO DESTROY OUR WAY OF
LIFE. NOW AMERICANS ARE AFRAID OF
THOSE FELLOW FENS MUCH MORE THAN NIBBLES ON THE PLANET. THE DEMOCRATS ARE AFRAID THAT
THE REPUBLICANS ARE COMING TO DESTROY THEIR WAY OF LIFE AND
THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THE SAME FEAR ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS. AND IN THE LONG RUN YOU CAN'T
HAVE A DEMOCRACY IN SUCH A SITUATION. >>. IT IS NOT JUST THE U.S. ALL OVER
THE WORLD WE ARE SEEING THE COLLAPSE OF NATIONAL SOLIDARITY. I KNOW THAT MANY PEOPLE TALK
ABOUT THE RESURGENCE OF NATIONALISM. BUT ACTUALLY ALMOST EVERYWHERE
YOU LOOK YOU SEE THAT NATIONAL CIVIL IS
COLLAPSING-- NATIONALISM IS IN COULD LAFNSING, IN CRISIS T IS
NOT ABOUT HATING FOREIGNERS, THAT IS FINE, THERE IS NO
PROBLEM THERE. NATIONALISM IS REALLY LOVING
YOUR EXAIT YOTS AND THERE IS LESS AND LESS SUCH LOVE ON MUCH
OF THE PLANET. AND YOU SEE POLITICIANS WITH WHO
CLAIM TO BE NATIONALISTS AND PATRIOTS AND THEY ARE ACTUALLY
DELIBERATELY UNDERMINING THE SOLIDARITY WITHIN THEIR OWN
NATION. THEY ARE BEHAVING AS
ANTINATIONALIST LEADERS AND THAT IS A VERY BIG DANGER, ESPECIALLY
FOR DEMOCRACY BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN HAVE A
FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY WITHOUT A STRONG SENSE OF NATIONAL
SOLIDARITY. >> James: I COULDN'T AGREE
WITH YOU MORE AND I HAVE NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT IN THAT
WAY, REALLY. I THINK SO MUCH IS DOWN TO
MISINFORMATION AND THE WAY THAT WE RECEIVE INFORMATION NOW AND
ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN KNOCK SHOCKED BY THIS PAST 12
MONTH OR SEVEN, AIDE MONTHS IS HOW EASILY PEOPLE BELIEVE IN
CONSPIRACY THEORIES. LIKE WHY DO YOU THINK WE AS
PEOPLE ARE SO VULNERABLE TO MISINFORMATION. >> YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH IS
PAINFUL OFTEN AND COMPLICATED. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EPIDEMIC, FOR
EXAMPLE, TO JUST UNDERSTAND WHAT A VIRUS IS IT'S SUCH A
COMPLICATED THING, A VIRUS IS NOT EVEN A LIVING BEING STRK NOT
AN ANIMAL, IT DOESN'T EAT T DOESN'T RECRUIT-- BY ITSELF T IS
REALLY JUST A PIECE OF BIOLOGICAL CODE, GENETIC CODE
THAT HAS THE AMAZING ABILITY TO INFILTRATE OUR BODY, HIJACK THE
MECHANISM OF THE CELLS IN OUR BODY AND TELL THE CELLS TO
PRODUCE MORE COPIES OF ME, AND THAT IS HOW IT GOES VIRAL. MORE AND MORE COPIES OF THE CODE
GOING INTO THE NEARBY CELLS AND PEOPLE AND YOU HAVE AN EPIDEMIC. THIS IS SUCH A STRANGE THING. A COMPLICATED THING TO
UNDERSTAND. ST IT IS MUCH EASIER TO BELIEVE
THAT YOU KNOW, THERE IS SOME GROUP OF BILLIONAIRES WITH WHO
CREATED THIS THIRNG IN SOME LABORATORY IN ORDER TO TAKE OVER
THE WORLD. AND WHAT MAKES IT EVEN MORE
DIFFICULT IS IT VERY OFTEN SCIENTISTS DON'T MAKE THE EFFORT
OR DON'T SEEK IN THE LANGUAGE THAT MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. YOU DON'T NEED, YOU SHOULDN'T
NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE IN BUY ONLY-- BIOLOGY OR ECONOMICS OR
HISTORY OR ANYTHING TO UNDERSTAND BASIC THINGS LIKE
WHAT VIRUSES ARE OR HOW PANDEMICS SPREAD. BUT SCIENTISTS SHOULD MAKE THE
EFFORT TO THINK, TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN AN ACCESSIBLE WAY, YOU
KNOW, AMONG THEMSELVES SCIENTISTS OFTEN SEEK IN NUMBERS
AND STATISTICS AND MODELS AND THIS ISN'T WORK, PEOPLE THINK IN
SOCIAL, WE ARE SOCIAL ANIMALS SO YOU NEED TO MAKE THE EFFORT TO
EXPLAIN SCIENCE IN A MORE ACCESSIBLE WAY. >> WELL, SPEAKING OF STORIES,
LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR BRILLIANT NEW BOOK SAPIENS, A GRAPHIC
HISTORY, THIS IS A GRAPHIC NOVEL OF ONE OF YOUR MOST POPULAR AND
ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS SAPIENS, WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO
DO THIS TO TURN IT INTO A GRAPHIC NOVEL, BECAUSE IT IS A
REALLY INTERESTING WAY OF PRESENTING THE BOOK. >> IT CONNECTS TO WHAT WE SAW
EARLIER, TO BRING BRING SCIENCE TO THE PEOPLE, TO MORE PEOPLE,
NOT JUST TO A SMALL EDUCATED ELITE THAT READS SCIENCE BOOKS
BUT TO REACH EVERYBODY AND FOR THAT YOU YOU, WE EXPERIMENTED IT
IS NOT JUST ME. I TEAMED UP WITH TWO VERY GIFTED
ARTISTS, IT IS A GRAPHIC NOVEL. SO I HAD TO TEAM UP WITH OTHER
PEOPLE AND WE, IT WAS THE MOST FUN PROJECT I EVER WORKED ON. IT WAS JUST ONE SPEMPLET AFTER
THE OTHER OF LET'S BREAK ALL THE CONVENTIONS OF TELLING SCIENCE
AND TRY NEW THINGS. SO WE HAVE ONE DOCTOR WHICH IS
LIKE A DETECTIVE STORY. WE CREATED THIS FICTIONAL HE
DETECTIVE LOPEZ AND SHE GOES AROUND THE WORLD INVESTIGATING
THE LARGEST ECOLOGICAL CRIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, THE
DISAPPEARING OF LARGE ANIMALS OF THE PLANET BEGINNING AROUND
50,000 YEARS AGO. AND SHE IS ON THE TRAIL OF THESE
SERIAL KILLERS. AND THIS ONE CHAPTER. AND ONE CHAPTER IS LIKE A
SCIENCE FICTION SUPERHERO MOVIE. WE CREATED THE FIRKSAL CHARACTER
OF DR. FICTION AND SHE PERSON FIES THE HUMAN ABILITY TO CREATE
AND BELIEVE MYTHOLOGY AND FICTIONAL STORIES AND ANOTHER
IS-- WE EXPLAIN EVOLUTION THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF A REALITY
TV SHOW WITH DIFFERENT SPECIES COMPETING FOR SURVIVAL. >> James: IT IS A REALLY
ENTERTAINING, ONE OF THE SUPERHEROES, IS YOURSELF RIGHT
HERE. LOOK AT YOU THERE, HOW DOES IT
FEEL TO SEE YOURSELF AS A CARTOON CHARACTER WBLGZ NOT VERY
COMFORTABLE. WE HAD A HUGE DISCUSSION ON
THAT. THEY CAME WITH THE IDEA OF
HAVING ME AS A CHARACTER IN THE BOOKK AND I SAID ABSOLUTELY NO
WAY. AND THEY CONVINCED ME BUT WE HAD
TO COMPROMISE, WE WILL HAVE AN ENTIRE GROUP OF SCIENTISTS
EXPLAINING DIFFERENT THINGS. FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE SCIENCE IS
A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT. IT IS NEVER THE WORK OF A SINGLE
INDIVIDUAL. LIKE I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT OUR
THEOLOGY. I READ THE PAPERS, THE BOOKS
ABOUT THEOLOGY BUT I NEVER CONDUCTED THEOLOGICAL
EXPLANATION SO WE HAVE A THEOLOGIST CHARACTER THERE AND
LIKEWISE A BIOLOGIST AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO ALSO SHOW DIFFERENT
SCIENTISTS HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS THEY SOMETIMES ARGUE,
THEY SOMETIMES DISAGREE. SO IT IS NOT JUST ME IT IS AN
ENTIRE COLLECTION. >> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TALK
ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS HOMOSAPIENS MAY DIE OUT IN KIND OF LIKE 80
YEARS, IS WHAT YOU SAY. IN THE NEXT CENTURY OR SO THAT
WE AS HOMOSAPIENS MAY CEASE TO EXIST. WHY IS THAT AND WHO IS REPLACING
US. >> FIRST OF ALL SPECIES
DISAPPEAR. 99 PERCENT OF SPECIES THAT ONCE
EXISTED DON'T EXIST ANY MORE. 50,000 YEARS AGO YOU HAD AT
LEAST SIX DIFFERENT HUMAN SPECIES ON EARTH BESIDES US, THE
NEANDERTHALS AND OTHERS THAT ARE NOT HERE ANY MORE. SO SPECIES INCLUDING HUMAN
SPECIES DISAPPEAR. NOW REGARDING OUR OWN FATE HOMO
SAPIENS WE ARE NOW CREATING TECHNOLOGY TO REENGINEER LIFE. BIO ENGINEERING ON THE ONE HAND
AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ON THE OTHER HAND SO GIVEN THIS
TECHNOLOGY I THINK IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT IN A CENTURY OR TWO
EARTH WILL BE DOMINATED BY ENTITIES THAT ARE MUCH MORE
DIFFERENT FROM US THAN WE ARE DIFFERENT FROM KNEE ANDER
THAWLS. WE SHARE MOST OF OURED ABOUTEE,
OUR BRAIN, OUR HE POATION WITH THEE ANDER THALS, WE ARE
CERTAINLY ORGANIC CREATURES LIKE THEM. BUT IN 200 YEARS EARTH MIGHT BE
DOMINATED BY THE FIRST INORGANIC CREATURES IN THE HISTORY OF
LIFE. SO GIVEN THE POWER OF THIS
TECHNOLOGY, I THINK THERE ARE JUST TWO OPTIONS. EITHER WE DESTROY OURSELVES IN
THE PROCESS, OR WE UPGRADE OURSELVES INTO SOMETHING WE
CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE. WE CAN'T IMAGINE IT BECAUSE EVEN
OUR IMAGINATION IS THE PRODUCT OF ORGANIC CHEMISTRY. AND HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
THE EMERGENCE OF ENTITIES WHICH WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO THE LAWS
OF ORGANIC CHEMISTRY. >> James: YUVAL, I LOVE
TALKING IT TO YOU SO MUCH. WILL YOU MAKE SURE YOU COME BACK
ON THE SHOW EVERY SIX MONTHS
