Your Rights During Police Encounters In Public (Slight Florida Focus)

hello my name is Jamie Rook Sherman I'm doing a presentation on understanding your constitutional rights for police encounters and specifically we're looking at when you must comply with police orders in public generally speaking when you're in public places when you're on the sidewalk when you're in areas generally that has access for all the public to walk on and be in and we're going to look a little bit at Florida as our Focus as that's where I am licensed to practice but some of the general elements dealing with the Federal Constitution will have some crossover for other states as always just a quick note make sure that you check with an attorney if you need legal advice this presentation is not a substitution for legal advice it is intended for general information purposes only and laws are constantly changing they can vary from court to court depending on what rulings have come down and so if you have a legal issue and wish to learn more from a lawyer you should take your specific facts to a licensed attorney in your relevant area and get legal advice for years specific issues if you haven't already seen there's a video called 10 rules for dealing with police which is created by flex your rights you can actually watch it for free on YouTube and that's a great background video to understand your rights and a whole host of situations we'll be having some Crossover with that video and we'll be uh going a little bit deeper than that video but it's a great film and it's a great organization that helps people understand how to deal with police starting just generally with the Constitution we understand the Constitution provides a Bill of Rights so it's the first 10 amendments to the Constitution and those Bill of Rights were originally dealing with the federal government but they were eventually Incorporated through the 14th Amendment and Corporation means that it's been held against the states as a kind of floor or Baseline of rights that people are expected to have no matter what state they are in dealing with police encounters will be focusing in on the fourth amendment and the Fifth Amendment and the Fourth Amendment provides the right of the people to be secure in their in the person's houses papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated and we're focusing here on unreasonable surges and seizures because when we talk about police encounters we're talking about whether a an officer has caused a seizure to occur by restraining your ability to move in other words telling you to stop or possibly arresting you maybe even touching you or touching your private property and of course related searches you know is an officer going into your pockets is an officer looking through your belongings uh what what constitutes a search those types of issues really come up when we look at police encounters and we're going to be focusing a little bit more on the seizure aspect when we're talking about police coming to talk to you in the public sphere talking about the Fifth Amendment now also of importance here is that you shall not be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against yourself in order to pride of life liberty or property without due processing law uh what this has gone to mean generally speaking is that an individual does not have to incriminate themselves in other words generally speaking a person doesn't have to speak to police a person doesn't have to offer up information there are some certain exceptions and we'll cover a couple of those in some upcoming slides but generally speaking on the street you're not required to talk to a police officer simply because they want to talk to you so you don't have to worry about that issue now we're going to talk about probable cause you've probably heard that or PC for short uh on lots of TV shows where there's you know a rest being made and there's like courtroom dramas and you know CSI things like that you hear probable cause thrown around a lot and generally speaking um probably cause exists where the facts and circumstances when the arresting officers knowledge and of which they had reasonably trustworthy information are sufficient in themselves to Warrant a man of reasonable caution and the belief that an offense has been or is being committed and that's very verbose and wordy and confusing but the short of it is is that probable cause is a standard that an officer has to reach um in their knowledge when meeting somebody on the street in order to make an arrest on the street in other words an officer has to see these facts and circumstances at a reasonably trustworthy level related to criminal activity in order to make an arrest so the short of it is an officer on the street is not going to just be able to walk up to a random person and throw them in jail that is a part of due process that is protected and Incorporated through the 14th Amendment which states are required to provide Reasonable Suspicion is going to be another point of topic uh upcoming and so I'm just making these definitions clear a reasonable suspicion is a lower standard than probable cause and that's often where we hear that whole Terry stop idea um if you ever you know I've seen someone just stop in the street and then you see the Terry stop pat down you know that typical officer patting somebody's outer clothing down that's what we think of when we think of a reasonable suspicion stop and a reasonable suspicion stop happens when officers have specific and articulable facts which indicate that a crime has been is being or is about to be committed it's not as high as probable cause but it's enough that officers see facts which make them think that a crime is about and this has to be more than a hunch or a general suspicion in other words officers can't just say oh that person walking down the sidewalk looks suspicious it can't just be oh that person is a minority and they have a backpack I have a hunch that they have drugs you know there is a still there's still a level of protection that has to be metered out when it comes to carrying out Reasonable Suspicion stops and reasonable suspicion stops basically mean that an officer is able to detain a person that is tell you that you can't move from somewhere for a brief period of time and that time period has depended um on whether or not an individual um it could be a certain type of crime which requires a lot of Investigation on the short end uh you know for traffic stops that some people might be accustomed to those are supposed to only last you know about 15 minutes at most you know someone that maybe doesn't have a bicycle helmet or bicycle light and a city ordinance requires it the officer is only supposed to write them a citation that should take what you know 10 to 15 minutes tops and that's it that's all they're allowed to you know detain for with those types of Short Stops um and and that being said there are instances where an individual can be held for longer um and that is an example of that was a woman who was trafficking drugs and balloons inside of her intestines you might say officers were able to hold her for about 24 hours but again that's an unusual case and typically speaking people can't just be held wantonly there has to be a real logical connection as to how long somebody is being detained under Reasonable Suspicion and of course that carries also into writing citations as I just mentioned now talking about compliance on the street the focus Point again for this discussion now that we've gotten this background information out of the way about your fourth and fifth amendment rights about probable cause and race little suspicions you know types of stops uh is that uh being a pro being approached on a public sidewalk or public place is the area that we're going to be focusing on generally speaking police that have a right to make you perform or provide anything until that probable cause standard has been reached as you've seen the exceptions that we're gonna you know briefly talk about are where States uh have Reasonable Suspicion detention statutes which allow them to that is officers to demand your name your birthday and permanent address um what that really means it came after a a case of stemmed out of Utah but the Supreme Court approved states allowing an officer who has again reached Reasonable Suspicion for a crime not just walking up to you randomly on the street and saying show me your ID or your credentials or something like that they have to already be stopping you for a crime that they have Reasonable Suspicion about if they have that then they can ask those things Florida is not one of those States Florida is not a stop and identify state in addition just to note you'll have to check with your local state but generally speaking the the identification aspect doesn't mean you provide a state ID you don't have to provide a driver's license obviously if you're walking because you're not driving so typically identification just means stating your name stating your birthday is City apartment address um of course these things could potentially be challenged under the you know Fifth Amendment uh potentially you know saying that oh it's incriminating to state your name but as the case law stands generally speaking the Supreme Court is upheld that that is okay for them to ask and then if you don't you might get a resisting slash obstruction charge in states that have stop and identify so with that in mind a person needs to establish what the officer is thinking or is doing before making a move to be safe because it's really important that whenever you're approached by an officer you understand what the officer is looking for are they looking just to talk are they actually just trying to stop you and have a reasonable suspicion detention or are they about to arrest you that's a very big deal so what is your job your job is to be a detective when an officer approaches you your job is to figure out the circumstances about which they're approaching you and of course and your detective work determine if it is safe to leave because the safest thing to do is to get away from police consensual encounters versus detention slash arrests police can obviously talk to you on the street uh police officers just like any other person that they can say hi hello you know how are you doing um they could ask you what's in your purse they could ask you what you had for lunch but an officer cannot at least without the Reasonable Suspicion or probable cause requisite they cannot make it seem like you are required to talk to them they're not supposed to make you believe that you are under arrest or being detained with a show of authority if you're legally not being arrested or detained now that being said police can lie to you but when it comes to legally operative words like an officer saying to you stop or halt or you're under arrest an officer can't really lie about that because if they do say those things it leads to issues such as a you know false arrest potentially it leads to false detentions uh it could lead to evidence being suppressed because the evidence was gained unlawfully so an officer at least legally operatively speaking can't be pretending like oh I'm stopping you or oh I'm gonna arrest you and then saying just kidding once those levels are met Once An Officer says stop or Halt and you know a reasonable person believes they're being stopped or possibly being arrested they can't unring that Bell so we have to find out what that police officer uh is talking to you for so that you can know what to ask next so with when the initial encounter if you're approached by an officer your first job as a detective is to determine your status and that easiest way to do that is to ask am I being detained or am I free to go and remember to remain calm and still you don't want to make an officer nervous or anything like that you want to make them real realize that you are confident in yourself that you know your rights but without you know being really pushy or aggressive you want to be firm but you want to you know seem very level-headed and by asking am I being detained or am I free to go you are immediately establishing that you are not interested in talking that officer because you're trying to figure out whether you can actually leave and so you're trying to make it clear that you are getting out of that situation and if an officer continues to be evasive or not give you a straightforward answer that could lead to a potential detention happening and that that is by the law and so if that happens that could be a lot of big trouble because anything the officer says or does afterwards um could be suppressed because it would be an unlawful detention if they didn't have Reasonable Suspicion and not only that there could be civil damages if a lawsuit was it was successfully launched so if the officer then says that no you're not being detained immediately this should be your cue to get out of there now it doesn't mean that you should start you know running full speed the other way uh potentially uh arousing some sort of Suspicion or nervousness now that being said there's another issue which you won't be talking about today and that's you know what fleeing from an officer can turn into racial suspicion we're not going to talk about that but generally speaking this is just a a safety measure it's it's a good practice you just say thank you and good day and Co and walk away calmly why because you're just letting them know you're not interested in talking and you're getting out of there in a safe and decent manner nobody can say that you were disrupting the piece nobody can say that you were threatening anybody if you walk away calmly and confidently and that's really key you don't want to cause any more conflict that you need and you want to create the best possible case for yourself in the event that your rights are violated just plain and simple however now and that officer then does say yes that you're being detained you're in a different world and your detective hat has to be tipped up a little bit more because you have a lot to research first what you need to find out is why you're being detained ask the officer straightforward why are you being detained it's important to know what exactly you're being detained for why because that could be used against the officer later in court if the officer um ends up you know saying something different um you know if the officer tries to pretend that they detain you for one thing but really was another that could be a huge impeachment aspect um you know especially where officers are making things up or trying to you know you know play that they can do anything and I've personally have been in those situations where officers have tried to do that to me you know very irritating you know even while in law school so it's you know it's really important to make sure that you get them on the defensive not in an aggressive way but in a logical way you're letting them know that you're building a case for yourself and you're gonna find get to the bottom of this as the officer then says anything other than and we're talking about from Florida now for loitering or prowling and loitering or prowling is just an interesting issue in Florida it's not uh it's one of those things where you have to show your idea or anything like that the issue with loitering and prowling in Florida is that one of the circumstances around which their suspicion is refusal to state your name and address with loitering or prowling however stating your name and address is not an element of the CR of the crime it's a really hotly very intricate legal issue uh but the short of it is we're just going to focus really more on you know what you need to do generally Okay so when the when the officer when the officer responds uh to you maybe they said oh we heard that someone was you know maybe if you're a young person underage drinking we heard or maybe we heard someone something about you know somebody tampering with a car you don't respond to any of those things you're just there to receive that information so you know for the future what it is that they were looking for next you need to get their badge number and name why uh because generally speaking in police procedure manuals uh they are supposed to give you their badge number as a way for the public to know that they're a real police officer and not an imposter so it may be difficult to actually take that information down obviously do the best that you can but try to remember their name try to remember their badge officer I'm sorry but their badge number the dad number the officer and that way you have it for the future in the event that you know you need to file a complaint or file a lawsuit asked to speak to the supervisor um they're not neces it's not always true that they have to get their supervisor uh on the scene but it does let the officer know that you're serious that you are very disturbed that you're being uh detained um and of course at the end of that ask if you're still being detained plain and simple your job is to get out there as soon as you can you need to ask as often as you can uh whether or not you're being detained if you're free to go um obviously don't do it to the point of being aggressive or obnoxious but do this every 30 seconds to a minute you need to find out as soon as you know uh or can know uh when you can get away from that situation because officers are not really required to tell you when it's passed when that Reasonable Suspicion is passed they have to they'll say stop you know to let you know that you've been stopped but they don't have to say oh well sorry it's over you need to ask and if you ask and they continue past that then they're setting themselves up for trouble so uh going to this next slide now we're going to bring it back to that loitering and prowling issue with Florida uh again asking for your badge number and name is important you want to speak with their supervisor because you want to figure out why uh you could ask why the officer thinks you're a lawyer rigor prowling again you're building a case for yourself um ask what he wants to know to determine if you're not loitering or prowling again the best that you could do for yourself is to not do it or say anything that could be incriminating it's to ask the officer what's on his mind and he may not or he or she may not respond but you are getting it out there you're putting it the opportunity for them to create a record against themselves that's the point that you're trying to do and the officers are trying to do the same against you so you're just trying to stay ahead of them and again do not say anything except to ask if you're still being detained and do this once you know every minute or 30 seconds or so until the officer no longer detains you because again they may not let you know that you are free to go um and for this again this is more of a Florida specific issue but if an officer demands identification this is a you know a real judgment call but generally speaking um you could give your actual legal name date of birth potentially you know your home address that they ask but really be careful because I have seen instances where people get tripped up you know they they sometimes they give an address that maybe was their student address it's not really their permanent dress and they look up their license they try to say why are you lying I mean I've seen really crazy stuff which is why you know it's a really gut-wrenching wretching issue but with load area prowling it's it's kind of scary you try to do your best you can to give the information that you think is safest if you think your date of birth is and your name is easy to say they can't get that wrong they're not going to be like oh uh you actually have two addresses and they're gonna arrest you you know that's the best way to do it is to be as safe as possible and you don't need to give an officer any forms of ID again uh walking on the sidewalk we're walking we're talking about public places you know maybe you're walking in a public park that's completely open you know you're walking at a boardwalk you're walking the sidewalk you don't have to give an officer an ID in as much as you know you don't have to show a pilot's license to drive a car again the ID part if any which is only relevant in Florida to lordary prowling is dealing with saying your name date of birth so coming back to the general if an officer Now does not give a direct answer to you in other words you've asked these questions he's being evasive again do not speak except to ask again what their badge number name is they want to be their supervisor ask why you're being detained ask if you're free to go it's the same thing doesn't matter what it is an officer that's being evasive you need to get that information that is so critical that you get out of there and the biggest one if for safety reasons is if you're free to go of course it would be great if you can get the badge number right there and then you may have to you know read it and take note because they're not saying it to you you might have to try to look at their you know little badge in their chest but your goal is to be safe and so you want to be able to get there again out of there as soon as you can now that we have that General background and I know it's been complicated long so far but you know that's why there I guess there's lawyers because there's just a lot of complicated issues to go through so now we're at that point you're detained maybe the officer has told you the badge number maybe he said you're being detained for you know there's someone was suspiciously looking you know through someone's car or something like that before okay you're detained great now what the officer is standing there and they might be telling you to do something right you're wondering do I have to comply with anything now while an officer when it comes to just the Reasonable Suspicion as you know we talked before does not have a right to make you positively do anything generally speaking um an officer might ask you to sit down on a bench or sit down on a curb or maybe you know imagine you're walking across a street and they stop you say hey stop you know they might and you might come back to the sidewalk so you're not standing in the middle of the road those might be simple ways that an officer could potentially you know lawfully and legally command you to move which might be sitting or standing or you know moving within just a couple of feet because the problem is is that if an officer asks you to move any farther really away than a very small radius like in other words makes you step a couple more steps and where you've been stopped that could lead to a de facto arrest if the officer asks you know says oh we're gonna make you hop in the car even though it's just detention just reasonable position detention that can lead to an to a de facto arrest by the law so again your legal obligations here when you're detained are pretty much just to remain still and you know just be calm and not go anywhere and of course you know with that you want to just be as reasonable level hunt as possible and know that you're going to get through this you know don't be jittery don't be fidgety all all over the place you don't want to add any more suspicion than you need you want to be able to get out of there so again and there's these police tricks that I'll try to do to get you to move I mean this is very common police officers try to you know get you to expose things out of your pocket they try to get you to pull things out they try to get you to incriminate yourself and at a fundamental level at the end of the day um that argument could always be Advanced you can always Advance an argument that of the Fifth Amendment saying that you didn't maybe move two feet or sit down because you thought it would incriminate yourself uh you know that being said it's a judgment call that you're gonna have to make that's not always easy but you do have that backup that could be used and that goes again for what I was talking about before with giving your name and ID there is always that backup argument Fifth Amendment incriminated you know self-incrimination you were avoiding that but these are just general practice tips so when an officer asks you to do something maybe they say you know do you know do a hula hoop dance not really they're probably not gonna ask you that but usually they'll say oh uh would you mind emptying your pockets that's a very typical one you need to ask the officer are you asking me or are you ordering me because when it comes to racial suspicion an officer cannot make you empty your pockets even with and this is a side issue that Terry pat down that you might see in you know a TV show where an officer Pats the outer clothing it's not supposed to be you know go in your pockets checking your underwear and going through your waistband type of thing an officer is supposed to adjust with a Terry you know pat down pat you down four weapons and that's an independent Reasonable Suspicion I and I don't want to get too sidetracked with it because I could make a whole other video on it but the short of it is is that look at an officer to be able to touch you past the Reasonable Suspicion point they have to have another level of reasonable suspicion for a weapon so in other words you can't just be stopped you know uh maybe an officer thought you didn't have a bike light on the back of your your bike and you know there's City organs an officer can't then just pat you down for you know a machine gun or a machete when that has nothing to do with anything that officer needs independent Reasonable Suspicion like a handle of a gun bulge in your pocket or something like that in order to pat you down do that Terry pat down again the key operative words here are that you want to find out what the officer is doing all right is he asking you is he ordering you and be careful because even an officer might order you know sufficient movement um of you it's really it's really one of those things that you know can lead to a de facto arrest we know depending on where the officer tells you to go or move this or that and ultimately at least for the Reasonable Suspicion aspect the rule of thumb is that an officer will do the ACT they want to do and will be able to legally perform it without your help okay if you're detained just a reasonable suspicion the officer you know has some facts they think you have you know have committed a crime it's not probable cause yet if that officer thinks they have the legal authority to make you empty your pockets or this that they'll just do it you know if they've reached that probable cause level they don't need to ask your permission that's the key they don't need to ask you to you know jump them down do jumping jacks or lift your hands or pull your hand through your pockets if the officer really thinks that they have the legal authority to do that they'll go ahead and do it and you just gotta let the chips you know fall where they lie of course be limp you know of course be relaxed of course be calm don't resist with Force but generally speaking you're not required to move or do anything um incriminating when you're detained under Reasonable Suspicion um you want to avoid moving as much as possible you want to be relaxed you want to keep your hands out of your pockets if you can from the beginning you know to avoid further suspicion um but you know officer may ask you to move your hands from their pockets but it's you know it's a judgment call again an officer thinks they have the legal authority to do something they'll just do it it's you know it's not it's not per se obstruction um to remains just common standing when you've been detained under reasonable suspicion and again the Fifth Amendment backup there is always that statement that you can make that the fifth amendment protects um you from incriminating yourself and here's the big one if arrested which is not fun for anybody you have to remember that you know being arrested is is is really really a horrible experience but you're gonna make it through and you need to be calm during that portion so that you can make it through and once you've been arrested you need to say that you reserve your rights including your right to remain silent and you have to ask that you want that you want your attorney present okay it's really important that you have both why remaining silent um May prevent them from you know asking you certain types of questions um you know the officers might be able to ask you questions related to another crime they might be able to do little things to try to circumvent your silence um they're not supposed to ask you more on that specific question but again police officers have been known to tried to you know get around the law that your best protection in addition to that that is the rights remain silent by stating that which you which the Supreme Court said that you kind of had to articulate that so you got to say Island remaining silent you also want to say I want my attorney present because they have to get your attorney and you want to repeat that to every officer you pass to ensure that it is well known you want your lawyer you want to make it absolutely clear that you want your lawyer I mean that's a big deal so any officer you pass as you're walking the booking station it may sound silly you may look goofy but you want to just say I'm asking for my lawyer I want my lawyer and you the reason is is that you want no excuses you want there to be a huge record of people that were there witnessing that you asked for your lawyer and of course if there's audio or video being recorded maybe it's the police station maybe you're at a gas station they're having to have audio video recording if you verbalize on remaining silent and I want my attorney bam right there you have that protection they can't say oh you know we didn't say that when you have the evidence of you audibly saying I want my attorney I'm remaining silent because they have to bring you your attorney before you know proceeding with questioning if they if you actually ask for the attorney and the officer can't prevent you from verbalizing that request okay maybe you might get a psych you know psychopath of a of a police officer and they might be like you know shut up or we're gonna you know clobber you of the head but legally operatively they can't tell you to shut up and not ask for your attorney they can't say you know shut up you you can't say that you you know want to remain silent they can't put a cap under a bottle of your right to be able to ask for an attorney and here's the big bonus tip for this presentation don't resist and by resist we're talking about using physical Force okay um this is a little hat tip to the Antonio Bueller video If you haven't uh seen that video in that video um in his uh Christmas arrest he had his arms out very very very high and wide and was keeping them up very wide um generally speaking uh when it comes to police who are about to arrest you you want to stay limp and you just want to listen what the officer says okay the officer says you know put your hands behind your back do so and keep your arms limp because they're going to move them and you don't want any point for them to feel like you're resisting them before us and in Florida bring it back to our little bit of a flower Focus police in Florida are statutorily protected to affect arrests in good faith and so you can't resist it even if you might think that they are you know acting unlawfully if the officer is acting in his version of good faith which you may not know at the moment you can't you just can't resist so the safest thing to do legally speaking is to just comply and when they're saying you're under arrest you know if they ask who hasn't been back do that just be limp go gracefully into the car be calm and remember of course ask for your attorney and say you're remaining silent okay this is really important you want to make sure that you're not getting any obstruction or resisting charges or anything else they can try to chump up if there's any video surveillance around you know it's been very great that people have video cameras uh to be able to record people getting arrested and you know uh different businesses have video cameras people getting arrested it shows that um if you you know if you're caught on video it shows that you were very calm it shows that you're relaxed that really helps out your case and of course it's not the end of the world um you know I personally would imagine that feeling like it was the end of the world but you have to remember these are human beings who are responsible to other human beings and yes there is of course as always a danger that a police officer is going to act violent uh and you know if an officer starts you know walks up to you in the middle of the night and starts beating you or trying to kill you obviously or anticipate anybody would use reasonable self-defense but when it comes to just the actual typical arrest that's it you have to just realize it's not the end of the world it's a process and a procedure you're going to be let go most likely if you make uh you know if you're able to make your bond or be able to get released on recognizance uh it's you know it will this is not a a uh being sent to The Guillotines there is there is life after arrest so you have to keep calm and you have to realize it's going to be a battle but you're gonna make it and uh if you're able to make bond uh chances are you'll have a long time where you're just out away from the court because the actual case may take a long time to actually proceed through thank you so much again for your time if you have a legal issue for what you require an attorney just search for a bar licensed attorney in your relevant area who can handle your specific need um if you're Indigent you may actually receive a court appointed attorney if you end up being charged with a crime you probably heard a little about that on TV with those Miranda warnings you know if you haven't uh already heard that if you can't afford an attorney won't be appointed for you you know what police always say in those TV dramas and of course if you are Indigent and you need an attorney for other issues I'll look for a legal aid service in your area there are many not-for-profits which provide Legal Aid Services and also many law schools have pro bono clicks so there are other opportunities that you can check out to get either inexpensive or free legal help if you're in the need so thank you so much again for your time have a great day

Channel: lawlibertylogic

Views: 325,469

Keywords: police, rules, rights, flex, constitutional, 4th, 5th, Fifth, fourth, sixth, fourteenth, 14th, 6th, fox, cnn, msnbc, abc, rt, camera, scamera, filing, recording, audio, video, Illinois, ny, new, York, Florida, texas, tx, talk, id, identification, name, address, gun, open, carry, incident, ok, Oklahoma, 2nd

Id: QCQLj3S4qr8

Length: 31min 13sec (1873 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 04 2012