- Why are you so depressed? You're not gonna have any friends. Nobody's gonna wanna be around you. You should just be happy all the time. What's wrong with you? Why do you keep doing this? (groans) - Mended Light.
(Alicia laughs) (upbeat music) - Your friends are gonna leave you if you keep being depressed. - I cannot believe a
therapist said that, and yet, it was said by a counselor.
- Here we are. - Here we are, so we polled
our Mended Light community on what are some terrible things that a therapist has said to you, what's some terrible advice? And one of them, I guess in an attempt to shame somebody out of being depressed? - I find that shaming
always changes behavior. I mean, it's the most efficient mode, to change behavior, is shaming. It's not, it's all lies. - No, it's not.
- It never works. Shaming never works. - Well, and shaming is the tactic of somebody who feels like
they've run out of options and doesn't know what to say. And if I'm a therapist,
and I'm getting to a place of shaming people, I would rather say, "You know, I'm not 100%
sure how to help you today. I think we need to take
a break for this week, I'll see you next week. I'm gonna regroup and think
of some new approaches. And I'd like for you to do the same." Or push come to shove, "You
know, I think we've gone as far as we're able to go together. I don't have any other
ideas," and make the referral. But to get to a place to say your friends are gonna leave you... - It's so damaging.
- Yeah. - Because innately the
therapist-client relationship is one of authority. - Yeah.
- Right? And you're going to therapy
because you need support, and to be treated in such a
callous, unkind, shaming way- - Yeah.
- I mean, I just hope wasn't devastating for the
person that was told this. - I hope so as well. It reminds me, I had a client one time who talked about her relationship with her father growing up. And her father told her, "You're never going to amount to anything, you're pathetic, you're a loser, you're not going to succeed." And to spite her father, she
pushed herself in school, she became a tremendous success. And he said, "This is what
I was always going for, I was giving you someone to push against." And she said, "Dad, the end
result is that I hate you and I don't want a relationship with you." - Oh, wow. - So one, either she
turned out to be a success and he changed his tune, "I knew you had it in ya all along." Or that really was his strategy, in which case, that's awful. And I could see maybe-
- And you need some help. - Well, I could see
maybe a therapist trying a similar thing of, "I'm
gonna give this person someone to push against." Like,, here's why I think a therapist- - Like the devil's advocate. - Yeah, in a misguided effort, would say something like this, "I've tried being nurturing, I've tried being compassionate, I've tried being empathetic. And this person is still stuck in a funk. So I'm gonna try doing the opposite, and see if that's what works for them." But it's not worth the gamble. It's not worth the gamble
to tell a depressed person that they are essentially
worthy of abandonment and not being loved, because
of a condition of depression which they didn't choose or ask for. - So I have a question for you. - Yeah.
- What would be your counter-advice to
this terrible advice? This person is sitting on your
couch, or chair, whatever. - Yeah.
- You know, you're sitting in an office- - Standing in the corner, because- - Because of their shame.
- Yeah. - Shame. And they say, "This is what
my last therapist told me, I'm still struggling with
depression, what do I do?" - I would make some joke about
having to undo the damage of what the other therapists did. And it would only be half joking. And then I would let them know that their depression is
not something they chose. I've yet to meet the person
who chooses depression. - Right.
- I've yet to meet the person who says, "Yes,
I wanted this in my life." And because you didn't choose it, there's guilt in their shame. And I think shame is never a positive. It's never useful, it's never helpful. Shame is directed at your identity, it's directed at who you are. It's saying, "I'm pathetic, I
am unlovable, I am unworthy." Guilt, on the other hand, can
be healthy, can be helpful, if it's directed at a
behavior that we chose, that we can change. - Right.
- Right? But depression isn't chosen. And very often it can be
managed or alleviated, but changed or just done away with? - Yeah.
- Most people who struggle with depression, this is
kind of their cross to bear. And they can still find
a happy, fulfilling life, but the depression is part of it. So to first of all, to guilt
somebody for depression doesn't make any sense. Because even in the case of healthy guilt, it's not something they chose, and it's not something they can change, much more shame somebody for it. It serves no purpose. And so what I just said, I would say to that client, to lay out why what their previous
therapist did was wrong. Why the person in front
of me is not at fault for feeling depression. And then we go into, let's unpack. When your therapist said that, did it land as something fearful? Like, I think it was wrong
with them to say that, but did it elicit a response,
an emotional response? Because I'd be interested
to know if the person said, "No, I just thought that
therapist was an idiot, and that's why I'm not
seeing them anymore, because who the hell says that?" Or if they say, "Yeah, that
actually terrifies me." - Yeah.
- I would want to know that first and foremost, and then- - If they accepted, even
though it was an untrue thing to say, if they accepted that
in, as some sort of truth. - Yeah, because I would want to know that before knowing how to proceed. And if they did, I'd say,
"Let's explore that, shall we?" And ultimately the fact is,
if someone is truly a friend, they don't abandon you
when things are hard. If someone is truly a friend, they may draw boundaries for
themselves in their life. You know, but they're not just gonna say, "I don't care anymore." And in the case of depression,
someone who would leave you because you're a downer,
someone who would leave you 'cause you're struggling,
isn't truly a friend, anyway. That's a fair-weather, good
time buddy, is all that is. - Just, you know, I just,
talking about depression I think of Eeyore, right? And there's nothing wrong... Like, you have to know the
sorrow to know the joy, right? - Yeah.
- You have to know the hard to know the good, right? And there's there's nothing wrong with a little bit of
Eeyore-ness in our life. - No, not at all.
- You know? Going to that place
of, whether it's grief, or sadness, or whatever
it is, having that healthy self-expression, giving
yourself the safe space to express that- - Yeah.
- and saying, "Okay, what am I gonna do now?" - Well, and what's curious to
me about the Eeyore situation is I've heard from a lot of people who struggle with depression,
that not just Eeyore, but Eeyore's friends are a
wonderful role model of this. Because even though, yes, they do try and cheer Eeyore up sometimes, when they fail to cheer him up, they don't stop hanging out with him. - Right, they just sit with him. - They just sit with him,
or they do their thing, and they're glad he's there. - Right.
- Like, because if I'm depressed,
the last thing I want to do is bring down the group, right? And so I may withdraw from people, because I feel like I'm a
party-pooper and I'm a downer. When I really do need that camaraderie, I really do need that friendship. I just can't reach the
same level of happiness or joy that they can, but I
don't want to be excluded. But if I'm insecure, I may think, "Well, I shouldn't be here
because I'm a downer." And what I love about Pooh,
and Piglet, and Tigger, and all of them, is they're
just happy that he's there. And when he's sad, they let him be sad. They don't make him try
and be happy, and they- - He's not a problem to be fixed. - He's not a problem to be fixed. And when he's like,
"Have you seen my tail?" They help him find his tail. You know, it's a
wonderful, beautiful thing. And maybe this is what your friends need. Maybe your friends want
to be your friends, but they don't know how to help. - Yeah. - And they feel like failures, because they try and cheer
you up, and it doesn't work. And I find that the
direct approach is best when we think of, "How should I say this, that, or the other?" Just be direct. "Guys, I love you, I
love being your friend. I'm grateful for you, and I'm
grateful to be around you. I'm struggling with depression. That doesn't mean I have to
be a bummer for the group. What it does mean is that sometimes you're gonna try and cheer me
up, and it's not gonna work. And in those moments, what I
really need is X, Y, or Z." And X, Y, or Z could be, "I may need you to hold my hand, or put your arm around me. I may need you to cry with
me, I may need you to hear me. I may need you to just be
normal and do your own thing." And by "normal," I mean,
what's the normal behavior for this person or that person? Not the normal standard
for human behavior. - Right.
- I want you to keep being you and just let me exist in
the same space with you. - Right, well, and conversely,
like you can say that, you can say that is the person
that's depressed, it's okay. - Yeah.
- Depression is acceptable. (both laugh) But conversely, the friend can say, "Hey, it seems like you're
having a hard time." - Yeah. - "Like, what's going on for you?" - Yeah.
- "How can I support you?" Like, "Can I call you every
day? Can I text you every day? Do you want to come to lunch? Like I don't, I'm not
100% sure when I call you, and you're having a hard time, do you want to come out with us? Is that helpful calling, regardless of whether or
not you're gonna come?" - And if you're watching this, and you have a friend who is depressed, or anyone going through a hard time, one of my favorite phrases is, "I want to be here for you,
and I'm not sure how to do it." - Yeah. - Expressing that want, and then letting the
other person tell you how. - Yeah. - And so, you know, I've had, in college, I had a roommate who was depressed, and I wasn't sure what to do for him. And I wasn't sure what my role was, as friend, and my responsibility. And once we got into this place of, "Yeah, there'll be days
you can't cheer me up, but I still wanna be around you." - (laughs) So I remember a story. - Oh yeah, this is, yeah, okay. Listen, fine, I'll tell the story. This roommate had a hard time... Sometimes if your friend is depressed, what they need is someone
obnoxious in their life. But you need to know that
this is a good fit for them. So he had a hard time getting out of bed, and seeing hope and light in the world. And so, and then he would miss class, and he'd fall behind his classes. - But if he got that, like,
push to get out of bed, it could make all the difference. - And so one morning, I
don't know what came over me. And I just went in and I opened the door, and with his light switch, he's laying in bed and
it's pitch black in there. And I go...(hums Reveille) And I switch his lights
off and on. (hums Reveille) And he goes, he puts his
pillow over his head. And he thought I was gonna stop. Well, once he put his pillow
over his head, I paused. I turned the light off, his body relaxed. And then I went...(loudly hums Reveille) And he goes, "Aah," and
he throws the pillow, and he's like, "I'm up, I'm up!" And I said, "I'm gonna do that every day." He says, "Don't you
dare." I'm like, "I am." And here's the thing, I'm not
saying that is the best fit for every relationship, but
he really appreciated it. Like, not that day, but that
kind of became our thing. And he would be annoyed, but he'd laugh. And the combination of the
strobe, and the excessive noise, and the laughter, and the
annoyance, got him out of bed. And he told me later that, in his case, it was something he appreciated, 'cause it got him to class and
it got him going for the day. And thinking that maybe
things aren't so gloomy if I have a roommate who loves me enough to annoy the hell out of me, so- - There you go. - I'm not saying this is a
one-size-fits-all solution. This may be terrible for some
people, but it worked for us. Your friends, if your
friends distance themselves, if they're true friends, the only reason they would distance themselves is because they're getting the message from you, or they think they are,
that they're not welcome. - "Go away and leave me alone." - "Go away and leave me alone." And so maybe on your end,
the communication could be, "This is what I need from
you," right, "is X, Y, or Z." And, "This is what it's like for me, and this is what I expect from you, and what I don't expect from you. Like I expect you, and
I hope you'll call me, you'll text me, in my case. Like, I hope you'll flash
my lights off and on and get me out of bed. I don't expect you to make me feel better, that's not your job," right? - Right.
- And so that can be a very helpful thing. - I'm so glad you
overcame your depression. - Yeah, well, if you ever
get in that big of a funk, I'm gonna start doing
that with the lights. - Fair. If you enjoyed this video,
check out the video- - And you did.
- You did. Check out the video, "You shouldn't marry if
you're of different faiths." - That is what a therapist said. Were they right? Hmm. - If you've struggled with depression, what helps you on a daily basis? If you have friends or family
that struggle with depression, how do you support them? We wanna know. - Until next time keep shining,
because we need your light. (upbeat music) And here's that video we
were telling you about. - [Alicia] Click-e-ty click. - [Jonathon] You don't
even have to worry about what you're doing for the
next 10 or 15 minutes. - [Alicia] You're hanging out with us. - [Jonathon] That's what you're doing, it's right there, do it, do it now.
