Yield Labs Community Call #4 - Orion Money with Vol & Sam

[Music] all right guys welcome to today's live stream thank you very much for joining us yes we have got uh the swiss dude and we're very very excited to have with us today uh val from orion money thank you very much for inviting ryan manny very happy to be here yes yeah we're super pumped to have you all uh welcome to the show and um yeah it pretty much makes perfect sense to have you on now because the last caller we had was actually with the matthew from uh the md of encore protocol and it just happened that uh you guys are building an amazing application on the top of anchor protocols it's just a perfect perfect fit basically to talk today so let's start directly with um here with uh if you can tell tell us a bit more about your background uh how long you've been in crypto how you actually uh started and got involved in crypto and even what you did before so people can uh can really get the full picture of of who is building this awesome project absolutely and i watched the show with matt cantieri and it was a great show guys yeah really nice stream thank you thank you thank you okay so about orion money team essentially we come from the tech startups the background uh so myself i am by education programmer um computer engineer but then i did my master's in international business so kind of went on the dark side to sales and commercial i worked at microsoft and google and in 2010 myself and our current cto um for ryan money course we started the tech startup and we grew it from three founders to over 300 employees uh 150 large customers uh and 20 million dollars arr that startup did e-commerce analytics for sales on amazon walmart.com tesco in uk as well uh and essentially we helped our customers brands to sell more on those retail platforms and this is really like big data uh and now it's popular to say ai business and we learned a lot uh through those 10 years that we worked on this startup and we exited that startup last year uh private equity acquired the company and essentially myself and cause we were looking for a new challenge for us and interestingly that crypto came as a natural extension of this at least more from my side i'm in crypto since 2018 so i came in this 2017 bull market but was more kind of watching on the sides and investing a little bit and learning uh and like i think definitely that crypto is a big um big technology going mainstream right now and there are many protocols like l1 that will be very important in the coming years and when i came across terror it hit me that terror is definitely one of those protocols that will become like top three or top five protocols in crypto from l1 perspective so terra has a great economics link into the ust well to deter stable coins uh it's growing very fast it has a lot of engagement outside of crypto and it has very passionate community so if you look at those all factors definitely all the signs of really growing and engaged um a crypto ecosystem and in fact you can see this already so we started orion money in april this year myself and cause we brought straight away developers that we knew from before so our team from the start we had three developers in the team um and we started to look what we couldn't do it could do in terra either for terra ecosystem users or potentially outside getting the engagement from outside for terra we enrolled in the first terror hackathon and right now they are doing already the second one which will be even bigger uh and this was very shortly after anchor launch and anchor as you know is really unique product in the way that it gives stable yield uh to the depositors so for me it was really like eye opening that it's possible to design and implement such protocols money markets on crypto and do this in scale uh so i really like anchor protocol from the start uh and it got me to think uh what if we could do what if we could bring anchor protocol to everybody outside of terror because it's great that terror is so advanced in this financial lagos and terror is growing as well and ust solar us dollars currency is growing uh but it's still essentially so far it's only like one percent of crypto and the rest of crypto is on ethereum and it's a huge huge market in fact it's over a hundred billion dollars in stable coins on ethereum uh that are not you see so this is how you started to think what we can do to bring anchor protocol to ethereum and allow uh stable coins holders on ethereum and other chains to make anchor yields so this is how ryan money essentially started at the hackathon time awesome so maybe before we we dive into what orion concretely is and and we ask a few more questions uh about that can you tell us a bit you know a bit more how you um got interested by uh the terra ecosystem because there there are so many different i mean there is a bunch of different layer ones and like what what caught your attention and what just you know uh you know clicked so you said uh listen like i i i want to do something in there because you know crypto world is so is so big and so vast like there's just so many things and you need to make a decision at some point absolutely um yes so i think our thinking was around the lines that we want to find some legos uh on the protocol that we can build like a bigger solution using those letters so for us it's anchor stable yield and potentially other yields from uh from terra um so this was one point secondly we were looking in the ecosystem to join the ecosystem that is really beyond and we still could kind of make our mark and help the ecosystem but also looking for the space where it's still possible to build like really large protocols and at least in april it was really green filled wide open with basically only two main protocols launch uh samir and anchor and of course chai but this was more for external it is more for external users so it really attracted us that there are already this exciting money legos in the protocol uh but there is still so much green field where you can build big companies uh and i think actually the idea this hackathon was really great idea to jump start the developers engagement for terra uh because this made us accelerate our decision making and start working on terra otherwise i think us and probably many other people could do a lot of research and look how to develop and so on uh but when you have hackathon it's very limited period of time like this preparation stage was maybe a couple weeks two weeks or so but then the actual hackathon was literally like two days and we had our developers working two days or even like two nights developing the orion saver mvp to bring it to develop it for hackathon so it was really great way for us to accelerate it and to kind of launch uh from terraco system but of course our solution is on ethereum network yeah okay so and so how does it work if you uh these these hackathons at the end you have a you have a winner or you have a bunch of players that are winning and then allowed to build on the network or it's just to give some you know to give life to some ideas and then people decide how do you get uh funds how does it work yeah absolutely um so essentially tara is a permissionless chain anybody can build solution on terror as on a protocol or using terra money legos like us bringing it to other protocols you don't need anybody's permission to do that you can do anytime you want and start and develop it uh why um hackathon was great for us that essentially and by hackathons in generally great that you bring like several important areas together so first of all a lot of great ideas and people these ideas secondly developers who can actually implement those ideas and thirdly some experienced investors like tfl labs so protocol developers who can advise those first two groups on how to implement the solution what are the best practices and so on so we think that combination of those three factors really helped to jumpstart this creativity and really fast pace of developing solutions for terror okay okay and so so you you kind of mentioned a bit about the yield on stable coin but concretely what what what did come out of this hackathon and if you have to explain to someone who has no idea about uh you know what orion money is what is orion completely so what came out for us from this hackathon is that we developed our mvp solution which we put to the market straight away to get the feedback from the users and to test it out in real life and this mvp solution now it's already a proper solution uh this audience with insurance and so on so what orion money does it essentially gives fixed high yields for stable coins on their native network and in their stable coins so we do not introduce any inflationary tokens that we give to the stablecoin holders it's literally you put like 1000 usd and you start getting fixed stable yield straight away right now the yield for usdt usdc died busd is 13 and a half percent and wrapped usd 16 and a half but we plan to slowly increase it up to 20 25 after orion tg end of september great we will get into that a bit later the token and and why it's useful and uh and how it works so so concretely what are the main goals of the of your team i mean the current goals i'd say because the goals probably change all the time and will change a lot in the future as you'll see always american people post right all the time but yeah yeah but what are your current i'd say like yeah main goals for the for for for the reception shop future absolutely so as i mentioned we started as kind of very very simple solution and very simple value proposition we want to bring anchor stable yields to everybody outside of terror uh but as we went through hakatoan we collected a lot of feedback from community we had our third co-founder sam join us who's a jiontara and he provided a lot of feedback on the product and essentially riley terra community behind orion money we also enrolled uh or started to work with delphi digital the organizers of the first hackathon and we took all those inputs all those ideas and feedback and we iterated on them relentlessly and essentially we came up to division and the set of solutions that you can see described on your screen right now it's we want orion money to become essentially first cross chain stable coins bank uh where the stable coin holders could deposit their stable coins and get fixed stable high yield where they can take loans against their stable coins where they can have their stable coins insured uh where they can use their stable coins for payments in real life so essentially to become the best place in crypto to have your stable coins in and this is them the goal that we work in towards um like with many products to be launched within next few quarters and orion saver is our first product we really emphasize the ease of use of ryan saver so you can see on the screen how it works basically for the user it's a top part users just deposit their stable coins into line saver like with literally two or three clicks it's literally two approvals on the meta mask and you start earning fixed high yield straight away and we do all the heavy lifting on the background so first of all we swap their stable coins into the wrapped ust on ethereum then we breach this wrapped ust to anchor protocol on terror we deposit disrupt uh wrapped ust on anchor protocol and we start getting a yield for you but for users it's very very easy to use solution and we also emphasize that we want to make it very safe and secure solution like you see we just launched our team in april well actually after april but we launched our full product in june uh we already had three audits on the orion money protocol and we even started to provide two options of the insurance as well so this is very important for us to ensure that users can safely deposit earn yield and withdraw money from orion and so who would you qualify as your main targets because if we look at if you look at anchor you'd have the people would be able to to do the switch to ust and then use the anchor protocol and potentially have a bit higher rates then you'd look at this uh whole set of other kind of fintech apps that are being built on the top of encore where you'd where you for normal non-crypto people you'd want to just deposit u.s dollars or whatever euros and then have all the the back end being done but here we're kind of in an in between which seems to be for crypto users but who are not gonna do the you know ust to usdc et cetera so who who are your what's your target customer and how does it you see this target customer evolve in the future or do you have like this niche that you want to serve really well and yeah yeah absolutely absolutely um so our understanding of target customers came from partly our own experience and also experiences of other crypto holders on ethereum protocol that we've seen like for example if you're a trader you have some part on ethereum or using like centralized exchanges or your holder on ethereum you have some part of your portfolio in stable coins and typically then you hold it in usdt or usdc uh and we see that people they they kind of start to grow to their stable coins because they develop the sense of trust to what they're holding uh and for them it's a bit of learning to move to the new protocol or at least to move fully to the new protocol they need to spend time learning about the protocol uh and also they need to invest so they would need to swap their stable coins that they used to hold in into the ust and go to terra move them to terra manually via bridge and then deposit and we think and the feedback that we're getting from the users is that there is a huge uh huge share of the stable coin holders or traders on ethereum that would want to keep their stable coins in usdt usdc for their purposes when they need it but they would like to maximize the yield that they are getting with those stablecoins and right they want the exposure to all of these tokens on the ethereum network right so they want to be primed and ready if if something's going to to take a dip or and so on they're very familiar with this ethereum network it's you know it's almost the gold standard of like smart contracts and the tokens on here are really really like well um well developed um so that i i understand even myself from like my own research sort of perspective how um sometimes it's like do i want to move that chunk of money over to anchor because then i have to have ust and then i'm like i'm not perhaps as interested in a lot of the tokens that they have to offer i will be in time and as time goes on i'm getting more interested and being more active in that space but yeah i completely get it right like they want to keep their exposure to the ethereum network and it is uh what you're building is a brilliant opportunity to do that you're part of our core target audience basically uh yeah absolutely we are yeah absolutely yeah so that ust will grow and terror ecosystem and community will grow there will be many users joining and in fact we act as advertisement for terra and anchor as well ethereum protocol because some people will come to us they start earning this high fixed yields on ethereum but then they learn with us that it comes from anchor and they kind of get into their terror rabbit hole they learn more and they either move fully on they move part of their portfolio into terra but we believe that there will be like big share of users on the ethereum who just prefer to stay on the ethereum because essentially it's like main network for the crypto basically where you can do all the defy applications and everything and you have tokens that you're used to you have probably your big bags that you're holding and that growing nicely uh and yeah essentially for these users it's much easier to do like several clicks in ryan's saber application and deposit their usd key or usdc and start earning this stable fixed high yield and then when they need to pull their stable coins to invent into something they do this as well with like two three clicks the bridge takes around 20 minutes to get your stable coins back and you're back into action you can lev use those stable coins to buy tokens or do that with them wherever you want and of course we want to add more functionality that users can do more within ryan money itself and it's important i think you already covered this but it is important to know that like this is in kind right like there's no um you know there's no like little moon token that you get paid like these ridiculous like aprs in or anything like this is like if you are doing usdc you get paid your interest in usdc yeah brilliant absolutely and our approach is that we want to provide stable fixed yield which is not high we're not going to give you like 50 70 over 100 percent our approach we are giving you let's say around 20 and this time we will bring it to 25 um but this is fixed it's stable and it's not gimmicks no like some other tokens and so on we will introduce orion token which will act is essentially lever for the orion money ecosystem to increase the yields for the customers so we will give higher yields to the customers who hold more of our tokens and then we will introduce more revenue sharing and so on but this is it there will not be any high inflationary tokens and even with orion it's like strictly defined the number of tokens and there will not be high yield on the orion tokens okay so so so you so you also already mentioned the i mean a fixed dl that is pretty high you mentioned the fact that you i mean we talked a lot about ethereum but actually you want to integrate that into binary smart chain and other other ecosystems in the future so anyone who basically have their favorite uh environment can use your application very easily uh anything else to add in terms of how you would basically compete in this stable coin industry because it's becoming a pretty crowded market you have i mean you have the you have all the d5 then you have the c5 the the the block phi celsius nexo then you have i mean you have basically a bunch of providers for for decent uh yield um on your stable coin so how do you plan to compete and on basically just getting getting known and i mean the high rate is definitely one thing but as we know we can always find higher rates in some other places whether sustainable or not that's another question and so how do you plan on basically be competitive in there in this crowded market yeah absolutely um so first of all you mentioned it already we are providing higher rates than other solutions on stable coins and it's very important point that our rates are fixed so of course we'll be increasing slowly but if it is 13 and a half or like 20 we're not going to be dropping it like within a month or two to five or ten percent once we got enough deposits and so on once we set it at some rate it will stay so we think this is important and we've seen it from anchor protocol as well this is important for like many stable coin holders because you want to plan in advance how much you are going to earn from your stable coins you want to plan your essentially um your yields or yes it's like a savings account so if your savings account is making you 15 20 well this is great and it's definitely not that way right now but if you can count on this you can plan your life around it you can plan your trading around it uh and everything it gives you more uh kind of realistic way to plan things if you know that this rate might drop uh as utilization of borrowers drops for example and so on then it's very uncertain environment and it's hard for people to plan even like for one two months three months in advance of course as much as possible to plan on crypto so given those stable yields we think it's already attracting quite a lot of people to orion money um secondly and this is probably more approach from selfies if i that we are trying to make it as easy as possible for users to deposit and to withdraw their stable coins from orion saver like literally two three clicks easy to use interface and so on but we are essentially combining the sify and defy approaches to this where you still have all those stable coins into your metamask wallet and will be adding ledger as well and actually we have gnosis safes in plant you uh but essentially you are in a safe environment and you can use the application very easy and yes those are the target rates to which will be getting after the orion tg at the end of september probably slowly within some time and they are not crazy rates but they are stable uh high yield rates uh which are actually the highest rates on ethereum that you can count on months and months and so on so so so if we're talking about these rays that's really interesting because because we understand when we talk to matthew from anchor we understand uh the the mechanism of how these raids can be provided not only by the boring and landing market but also by the fact that the the the the collateral basically is over collateralized and is a proof-of-stake collateral that is actually generating uh uh an income that can be used etc but even matthew told us that these rates won't be able to stay that high forever so it doesn't mean they're going to change next week but maybe at some point when uh when the the the the be eath or the eth or the luna staking rate goes down those rates will be affected so how can we how can we maximize a sustainable rate in in a basic environment in an environment where uh you know the rates are by definition not sustainable except if the market grows faster than you know the adoption and the and the people who join yeah absolutely and this is the question and area that we looked into in a lot of detail when we were planning ryan money protocol and our light paper and so on um so i think there is the big difference between like what matt said about anchor rates uh changing in the future and the end and the rates that you have like on other or even cifi protocols and so on changing basically all the time and changing every couple weeks so encourage yes slightly as it becomes more and more mainstream and will be a significant adoption and we are talking like tens and potentially hundreds of billions or in tvl on anchor it will have to go down a bit uh but very likely that it will be first of all not a huge deep so let's say it will go from maybe 20 to 18 17 maybe 15 but also this will be period of time it's like anchor protocol light paper is basically planned for the four years uh from genesis so you can really see a long-term vision and long-term planning from tfl and now of course from mud as the leader of anchor team and so on so this is important this difference i think that makes sense to understand and of course for us as well uh we have working very closely with anchor protocol and anchor team and right now orion saver is 100 based on anchor rates but in the near future we'll be collaborating with more money markets uh so for example this upcoming mars protocol uh ontario uh potentially like nexus protocol apollo protocol and so on so we'll be admitting this yield uh from other protocols and combining it together to ensure that the revenues we are getting are from different protocols and money markets and we can still make it keep it stable and our system is also based on the market feedback so of course we'll be looking if if it doesn't make commercial sense for us to provide like once we get to 25 if you see that to achieve profitability of the protocol we'll need to lower it to let's say 20 or 15 percent uh we will obviously do this and hopefully by that time and again i'm speaking this probably in a year maybe even two years time uh we'll have a dollar uh so we plan to transition at some point of time orion money to download the same as um terror plans to do this potentially protocol even on its own and then we have orion uh governance um token owners vote on this and we will make this change but again i think it's a big difference uh between them almost real time variability of the rates especially defined and maybe a couple of weeks time variability of stifling yields and the variability of anchor protocol yields and will be following the same approach so we'll take it like it will be months and months until we decide to change the rate and it comes only once we've done all the calculations and modeling and see that we need to lower rates a little bit to bring more users and achieve better profitability and so on right great so basically i think the most important takeaway from from this point is uh uh is that you are actually trying i mean you actually aim to become an aggre a yield aggregator for stable coin from what i understood is mostly based on the terra ecosystem so the future protocols that will uh that are basically being built now on the terra protocol but you'll really try to to aggregate yields and revenues from different protocols to provide a more diversified source of yield which is awesome that's a great way to put it we believe that terra already has probably the most developed financial legals in whole crypto and it's only will improve going forward and we want to bring this to other blockchains where basically the users users are so we take something which is very valuable and we want to spread it to the essentially the largest number of users democratizing the access to that anybody on the theory with their metamask can access the best rates on term and this is definitely one first step and it will take several years years but potentially in future too if there will be better or more profitable mining legos develop on solana on other chains we will follow two like our idea is that we are cross chain stable coins bad essentially we are sitting between all of those chains connecting the best stable yields with the largest amount of users and the opportunity to do that is massive right because the projects just keep on coming thick and fast you know like solana and on in the terra ecosystem that is growing so quickly like you mentioned some of the up and coming things like uh mars and nebula and so on like these are all going to be like additional opportunities for you to buffer like your yield generation and should aggregate it further exactly exactly that's the plan okay so so we we talked about a lot of positive things and we love to be very optimistic and positive but we still need to ask about the potential risks of using the protocol especially because it's very new so so so what are the risks and how are you trying to mitigate them or what have you done i mean you talked about three different audits but as we know especially in d5 uh there is all these audits being made but then you have like the these these hacks and these issues so so yeah can you tell us a bit more about the risk by being as transparent as possible absolutely yes and this is this is probably the most important area for us the way we think because essentially via non-custody so as soon as the funds arrive at ryan saber their past by the smart contract to anchor protocol but thinking about users funds safety and security is top of our mind and the way we look at this essentially you need to follow the money and then to analyze for each part of the money pass or let's not say money uh probably not good from legal perspective but the stable coins the tokens and analyze each part of the token's path to ensure its security so essentially we have user deposits for example usdt then we swap it to wrap qst so you have maybe a risk then because it's in usd ust pack uh then we bring it to terra so there is a bridge there is potential potential risk there too which we consider and we explore and so on uh and of course orion money smart contract risk because smart contract basically is accepting your usd team and passing it to east anchor and so on and then to the terra network and once your tokens pass to the terra network via bridge then your um essentially then they interact with star smart contracts uh and this anchor smart contract so mainly it's actually this anchor smart contract you take a deposit earn yield and then withdraw the token bank so if you have karlin of several areas orion money smart contracts usd pack breach and anchor smart contracts uh potential areas of risk yes exactly sorry i just threw it up on the screen so there's a visual to sort of people can visualize what that looks like yes thank you and we analyze all those parts of the path to understand where them essentially risks possible and how we can counter them so first of all uh let's speak about uh orion money smart contracts so first of all we're working um with our development tool and we have some experience rigidity developers and orion money smart contract is on ethereum so this is kind of area that have been explored and tested big time uh we are not making a fork from any of the other smart contracts on ethereum which might have embedded issues and holes in them yeah we have developed orion smart contract from the ground up and we are familiar with all the design decisions that we made on this smart country so by default such as smart contracts they are much more secure uh because essentially our developers developed it and they know all the variables all the possible use cases and everything can be done with this so this is the first start uh oh and of course we do a lot of tests in manual and automated testing of the smart contracts and so on second it's the audits and audits of course then they cannot assure you uh safety of the smart corporate hundred percent but they are very good start uh because essentially you have external experience eyes looking at your smart contract from them risk and hack perspective and they tell you like where the potential issues lie uh and we already went through the three smart contract audits uh so this solidified uh who is preferred auditor for the terror ecosystem uh but of course we do this audit on the ethereum uh on the solidity smart contract and rd auditors who are as well external auditors and what's interesting that we've seen that like two last audits from these auditors they came back basically without any issues and this means that our development team is doing great job uh securing the our smart contracts and so on and we want to ensure that this will go forward so of course right now it's very easy for us uh because orion money smart contract is very young and it's still very small and very simple so as we go like in six months in 12 months complexity of orion money smart contract will increase and you'll need to be taking many more precautions to ensure that it's safe and secure so this is how we look at this from the security perspective and then of course insurance which is not exactly in the protocol right now but we are working with two providers who are also partners to anchor protocol so we know that they are reliable insurance protocols so they insurance and then slashed and we partnered with them uh for the two basically main risks this is right money smart contract risk and usc peg risk and to be honest i believe then your cpac is very strong because it's been essentially enforced uh after the main drop uh but we're still providing the option for the users um to purchase the coverage for usd pack just in case for their peace of mind and so on um yeah so we believe the insurance coverage kind of adds more safety net additional safety net right potential issues we might have and this is just a start with the time one of our solutions is orion insurance as well which we plan to develop natively on our protocol for orion stakers they will underwrite the insurance for the deposits and interest so with their tokens stake tokens but they will also participate in the higher revenue share because of this so we want to make it as native as as embedded as possible as well yeah that's really cool because it's incentivized as well basically so it rewards people for participating in this it's a really really great idea and it's great for the users of the platform too right you yeah just keep rewarding these guys exactly and and you said you said you you said the ust peg is actually pretty safe because it's been tested et cetera but and even the other one actually if you think about how a money market works and an over collateralized money market works it's actually pretty i mean supposed to be to steal some potential hacks but if your money is being lent out basically it's it's not hackable and if there is a liquidation event the collateral the the collateral is being liquidated so your money in theory is protected so even that part there provided there is no like main issue is actually supposed to be pretty safe too so so it's very interesting basically exactly and you're speaking about anchor protocol like uh over collateral and then absolutely works provided to the anchor protocol so this is another great piece about ryan money uh we do not liquidate anybody and we do not have any issues with liquidations because this is all done well currently with anchor protocol and then we'll be working with other partners uh to ensure that it's safe as safe as it's possible in crypto but to the highest degree okay great um so if you if you if you if we get back to a more uh optimism now um what are the main successes of the project so far uh and what are the next key milestones in the next few weeks and months yeah those are great questions i think a couple of things the way we are looking at this um of course starting from the product side because we product and community because we believe that we need to provide a great product to a great community and then we have bigger adoption and the protocol tbl growth and so on so we believe our milestone started from putting the mvp out for people to play and test it so this was great very early start and show some fast reiterating um now we have a fully functional product on ethereum orion saver uh and what we believe like this is a big milestone already uh but we also need to bring community inside the protocol and this is why we have done our private farming uh for 70 million dollars cdl 70 million dollars of deposit and not the private sale where it would be like two and a half million dollars and you would have a small number of participants uh potentially more vcs and so on this is why we run it as a community farming uh where we brought over 700 different participants who've invite listed and we wait listed the more for the culture of it like we wanted to have a community from the start our orion money community that are long-term holders that believe in the orion money long-term success of the protocol and that would not want to sell the orion tokens as soon as they unlock and that will add more provide more value when we launch properly this talking and so on so we believe the big milestone for us that we just passed was the private farming community farming and it's 70 million deposits over 700 700 participants so it helped to jumpstart orion money tbl as you can see on the chart from basically like two million dollars up to 70 something million um it brought a great community uh including you guys as well uh so we brought great community to orion money uh and it allowed us to essentially look how this will work in the real world and one of the things that we discovered well they it's not um not unsuspected but the ethereum downside especially with the growth of the price of ethereum are ethereum gas fees uh so this came up as a big pain point for our users so the next next milestone that we want to implement is actually to make it cheaper for the users to deposit on ethereum and we will have an announcement about this for the smaller deposits under twenty thousand dollars we will make it much cheaper to deposit using internal pools because this will help retail users so especially who was the most affected by the growth of the gas prices right also we plan to potentially add l2s and to move to polygon because we see that polygon for example has a lot of retail usage uh because of their low gas fees uh and we even spoke with some protocols on ethereum and they're saying that like 90 to 95 of their usage right now comes from polygon because most of the retail users are there so we of course will be still active on ethereum and we will be improving uh and our internal structure and features to make sure that we charge the least amount of gas it's possible for us to charge on ethereum so this will go live on monday but also we are looking uh to expand to other chains to make it cheaper and easier for like thousands uh and tens of thousands of users to join ryan's saber and deposit at the very low cost as well great great awesome so you mentioned about the the private farming uh and trying to get in there great community that basically first not only believes into the project long term but also don't necessarily a certain quality of people that don't necessarily need to dump the token right away and so basically this gets us to the next question which is how can other people get this token uh you know is there an ideo taking place if yes when would that be more or less and how can how can people participate into this project basically for those who are let's say curious enough to already discover this project now because they've been following us or they're they've been following the terror ecosystem for a while yes yeah everybody wants to know about the token right yes exactly and thank you for asking this like from our site we get really excited about the product that we bring to people but of course everybody is interested about the token uh and we are doing some work on this site as well which we think will be very exciting once we are able to make announcements about this and we will look to make announcements probably next week there will be several ideas so at least two big ideas on ethereum and two on tera as we try to make ryan token accessible to the retail users on both of those networks and we are working and finalizing all the details uh with two really great providers on ethereum lunch pots uh which we think and everybody thinks they're one of the top their top lunch pads so to make it as uh to expand it to as many people as possible and ontario as well so we will announce this about ethereum ideos probably they will be at the end of september entire probably in october uh due to columbus 5 delay uh but we want to make sure that everybody can access uh orion tokens because orion tokens will be the base of the our orion money ecosystem the more ryan tokens you have and stayed with us the higher you can get the yield you will be able to participate in the voting on the proposals on the orion money governance and so on okay i mean this is yeah this was basically the next question which is why is the token needed so you basically said we can get better better rates by owning the token uh i had had a talk already with the with your uh co-founder sam and we were talking he's he's a basically kind of celsius and nexo og and so i think the entire tokenomics is really trying to take the best from these companies and these tokens are trying to make it even better so can you explain us how the token i mean what's basically when you get the you know you get the token you get a better rate is everything paid in in the token it's just the additional uh uh percentage paying into the token to get into this better tier do you need to have a certain amount of token or a certain proportion compared to your entire portfolio how how will that work absolutely so first of all yes sam who's our co-founder he is big on celsius and exo and this is essentially where we learned their api levels as well so what we uh have we look at this we are trying to combine advantages of c fine and defy together and we think that having a token actually can link both of them very well uh because the token becomes like this base layer uh in the protocol uh with starting with api levels but then uh for the whole orion money set of the other products as well uh because then the token holders they by participating in the protocol and by their um essentially actions on the protocol they can earn also more staking rewards depends how they use their orion tokens and so on so the simple one or kind of the the original the base uh tokenomics part is about this uh table this increased apy so essentially users they will connect um to orion moneysaver let's say this metamask yeah thank you for bringing this again uh they state their orion tokens and if the amount of their orion tokens is below five percent um comparing to the deposits that they're holding on orion saver they will earn this rate 13.5 well it will be increased to i think 15 this time if the amount of the orion tokens that they state is 5 to 15 then their rate increases little bit more if they have over 15 percent then the rate will be the highest to be paid in the stable coins that they deposited so this gives them the ability to receive a higher rate but still receive it in stable points if the users if they believe even more in longevity and future success of the orion and would like to receive their yields fully in orion tokens they can sign up for that as well and they will get a bump on their yield with this too so essentially we will take their yields um that we are we have generated either from anchor or them from other money markets and we will use those yields automatically on purchasing orion tokens from the open market and depositing into the stake in fund so first of all depositing as a yield for the users that so they receive it in orion and also feeding into the state and fund so you have essentially this dynamic where we think that the first will have users coming without orion tokens and receiving some yield which is good and stable but they see that they can increase this yield by purchasing and staking some small amount of ram tokens they can purchase those tokens state them their yield goes up then they understand how the system works overall they can add even more ryan tokens the yield goes higher uh and then once they see that the system works very well they can opt in to receive even higher yield in the orion focus so essentially this kind of feel of them ecosystem and users becoming more and more active in our ecosystem uh we think this will help us to grow the engagement on the protocol awesome really cool and everybody's gonna want the moon right everybody's gonna want the moon so can you tell us i mean completely linked to the tokenomics and the value acro can you maybe i mean based on just you know this private farming and the yield you're getting and the difference in yield between what you get from ancor and what you give basically is a revenue for your company do you have other source of revenues and then because it's not because it's not a corporation uh that is actually trying to seek profit for shareholders what do you plan to do with most of this revenue except for investing it into growing the business but also you know like is there a plan to basically buy back all this token uh buy that maybe burn because we've seen with i mean we've seen that they're different models for example we see with celsius that it might be a problem because if you buy back but don't burn then people might just at some point try to get the better yield by being paid in your orion uh token but then just dump it on the market etc how are you thinking about about that different different review streams and then to accrue this to the to the token and and hi sam by the way yeah it's very good you guys live now uh yeah we were a little out of sync uh for this one i had about 1 p.m eastern standard time on my calendar so sorry for coming in late no worries man it's good to have you here all the same we did pretty well i was actually driving and listening so um yeah sam maybe you can answer this question uh-huh i don't think i heard the question full i guess your question just to kind of um recap you asking if there will be more revenue sources um that will drive the token price yeah it's busy understanding the dynamic between uh i mean first the kind of revenue you can make just on the difference between encore and actually yield you provide but also what are the other current or future source of revenue that you're getting from this application and then how are you going to use this to accrue value to the token and again if we can i mean how much are you thinking about value accurate right now if we think about our discussion with uh with matthew from anchor two weeks ago he said that they were incredible at generating value but not great at capturing it so how much have you been thinking and are you do you have like concrete action plan to to try to capture the value that you create uh as soon as possible yeah i i think just from orion saver itself and there's there's every single thing that we we kind of put together in tokenomics like we thought of accurate value to the token itself um we also set up the the validator on ontario i'm not sure if you if you're familiar with it but we're currently like number one number there and right now we don't charge any commission for it but the plan is to pop it to five percent and then share all the revenue from the validator itself uh with all the orion token holders so that will be just one of the legs um we believe you know we can really go full speed after tge with uh with like business to business integrations um and without you know just businesses protocols treasuries um all kinds of uh money is just sitting on ontario i'm just doing nothing uh i think we can plug it in at that at the base rate you know i don't think a lot of those protocols are actually interested to mess with our token itself um but that's i think that kind of will provide the whole balance to the whole 15 25 ratio uh where the 25 percent made more retail users will go after but the 15 will be uh you know just taken by the protocols treasuries and other um other projects that you know want to integrate with us uh but that's just two of them right you know we also have the yield and the insurance product in line that the orion pay so there will be more more products with time and more daps with time that will every doubt will pretty much just incur value to the accrual value to the token itself uh i don't know when you think yeah exactly it's as you just said like first of all on anchor protocol anchor is an amazing product and this is why it's gaining tbl and such a big tdl and amc value accrual mechanism will catch up with this uh but potentially some changes will be made for this not a financial advice just saying uh on our side we put orion uh ryan talking in the center of orion money and essentially we are trying them to make all the products to work for orion token as well as for our users because essentially when our users they own the ryan token and they state it they receive the value from the protocol so first of all um our orion money protocol company foundation is non-profit we will not be generating any profit from the company all the net revenue will go back into the ecosystem through the orion token so essentially the protocol will be automatically buying ryan tokens in the open market once there is some net revenue and adding to the staking fund so it becomes this loop where we made some net revenue the protocol makes some net revenue then it purchases tokens adds to the staking fund stake in fund gets distributed within time to the orion token speakers and every product that we add into orion money will work like this as well so we will have like higher yield product uh where the net revenue will fall back will fall again into the orion token even with the insurance product some part of revenue will also go directly into the orion token and so on and the validator as some mention this will be a big part of our stake in rewards on parasite because the validator is on there so naturally it will work for the uh steak and rewards for rhinestaters hunter very really cool uh toby maybe do you do you have a few more questions or do you want to take some uh questions because i'm pretty much done with the yeah yeah um i um i i'll see um what we got in the chat here there's a few questions guys if you don't mind taking a couple extra minutes to answer some questions from the community they're a good bunch we do like them they uh so um basically i think that you covered a lot of them um they weren't so first of all they wanted to talk about tokenomics of the platform and is it targeted growth or more stable that's at that in depth but then there was a follow-up question to that and um what are your plans to sort of make sure that you can pay uh what are your plans to pay yield on the orion token um i think you touched on that briefly as well but can you just give us a little bit more information about that so i think some maybe you answered this uh i think i'm talking too much so this is great so again can you can you recap it i'm just was going through the questions myself uh looking through them which question is it again ah basically they were asking about um orion on orion yield and what are the complications of um if you choose to take all of your um your yield solely in orion tokens instead of taking it in stable coins um is that going to be something that is like unilaterally available or is that going to be something that is only in certain jurisdictions i know that a lot of our community members are like us-based and you have to be very careful with regulation there and about paying in kind and so on i mean our platform is fully like built on smart contracts uh in small contract base uh we you know we are a tech company with building the platform itself but uh you know it's non-custodial so you can really log in with metamask wallet connect and just plug in take advantage of it uh so there's really no limitations like from our side there um the 25 will be available to to everybody who you know who just takes up to 15 of orion tokens uh in their portfolio out of entire portfolio 15 has to be uh of the value has to be in orion tokens to get that highest rate um yeah so that's essentially it um no limits unless there's something crazy that comes comes around do you plan to to to distribute yield on the orion token itself which is and how would that be finance basically it's a big thing also in the in the in celsius and the other one how do they fund that and like you know right so you know like celsius does you take 80 of their revenue and and streams streams that back to the token itself uh we're gonna do this through our staking funds so every every revenue that that we collect from different gaps uh from the validator uh through the difference in apis everything will be pretty much used all the funds will be used to purchase orion tokens on the open market and add it to the staking fund and then the staking fund itself will be distributing it to orion's takers on the the apy uh and that will be also depending on how long you're holding the orion tokens there's some rules set for that um it's all pretty much well described in our light paper if anybody really interested you can dive in we had it all put in in the good details okay i have one question to that sorry kevin i have just i've posted a link into the description for the light paper and it really does answer like basically every question that you could ever have it's really uh really well put together so have a look at that guys yes i have a question maybe a last one because then we're already at one hour and ten for the entrepreneurs out there uh basically what's the difference between launching a startup in the real world and a decentralized protocol in terms of lifestyle restrictions fun pace etc basically which i mean that would be probably very interesting because there's a lot of people who might want to start businesses today but might think okay there is like this super cool new stuff and so you can basically based on your experience because you've built uh uh businesses in both uh world basically i think i think that would be a good question total of all he built pretty nice company previously to joining the crypto on journey so yeah actually we didn't mention but you also build your own business in real life right i think it's in real life yeah i was just about to say that i love how we refer to um anything other than crypto as like i'm out in real life real life yeah that that's the talking crypto right the um irl um yeah but looking from the tech startup it's actually a great question uh because uh like our other co-founder didn't work in crypt or didn't do much crypto coursework in the mind and even developers some of them we brought them to crypt like we have some experienced rigidity developers but others like backhand front-end we brought them to crypto there are some differences i think if i compare it with starting a tech startup and starting a protocol in crypto um some main differences that jumped out at me uh first of all still the pace yeah the pace probably the biggest one because we are talking that in silicon valley and tech startups the life moves probably 10x of the speed of real life but in crypto it moves even faster uh like it was amazing the way we built the mvp solution put it out there then we started within literally like one week we started to close the seed round uh we got it over subscribed we got like many of the users coming to us the pace of crypto is just amazing and the way they are saying now like no now it's just what five six months after april and it already feels like a few years ago i'm sure yeah it's just really relentless right the pace in this entire ecosystem yeah especially i imagine especially i imagine for you guys because you're working across like several platforms you've got to keep up to date with people say with terra and you've got to see what's going on in solana you know all of this stuff it just like fuels the fire basically yeah yeah exactly so then again you have the hours the hours are different as well crypto is 24 7. uh like we are sitting here on sunday afternoon and really enjoying it and like we have calls this uh asia very low like at night and everything but this is great because then we are able to move at least twice the speed that it usually moves so the engagement you get you pin somebody on telegram and they come back to you straight away like from any protocol or anything like engagement in text startups is high but in crypto it's just completely another level yes and then but it seems like nobody sleeps right it's like when do when do these people even sleep but one thing that maybe is still not dragging but still shows that crypto is very airy is the level of technologies like for them texture top stack uh there is all developed tools and solutions and so on but for crypto it's still very early like our developers are literally like reading the source code of the protocols that we are planning to collaborate is and trying to understand how they work and so on uh documentation is almost non-existent especially for the new things or documentation is far behind what protocol actually does and so on so uh this makes it a little bit harder to develop uh but with the fast space that it's moving it's impossible to catch up like it will catch up one script becomes really really mainstream but if you're in tech startup or you're looking you're thinking either to do a text startup or to do a crypto startup crypto protocol i definitely recommend you go and at least try to do a protocol uh because um yeah the engagement level the opportunity uh and everything is much higher and you can really use all your skills that you would use at the tech startup are transferable to the crypto startups as well like you'd need to develop product market feed you need to have happy users you need to have some revenue for the protocol to be successful so this is everything is the same yeah if you want a moon you can build your own this is like how amazing this space is yeah and you can do it quickly too yeah and that's really interesting because this crypto kind of weird thing might be a bit intimidating for some people who are actually very brilliant but i just think because i don't really understand it i really struggle to make the next step whereas once you jump into it it's actually as you said it's except it's faster pace and kind of 24 7 and actually actually i'm based in singapore it's like almost 1 30. so we're just like all over the clock and i mean it's classic classy so the re so so not only people should not be uh scared to try and make the move but also the the incredible thing in this space is you're just uh interacting with like-minded people who are super uh driven self-self-driven individual that you will just not find in those companies and and basically the the i'd say like the the the dysfunctions in all these corporates and even the tech startups that become too big are due to people who are not necessarily at some point that that motivated anymore and that's something that you just don't find in crypto because you have just all these people it's like this this nest of people who are just like a bit a bit super creative a bit crazy and like you just understand that this is that this is the future of everything and it's basically the next the next uh the next generation of internet after web and mobile and that's where everything is gonna end up and so it's just too exciting to i mean you need to sleep and you need to survive otherwise uh you're not going to be there to to see the the fruits of all this work but uh but it's awesome yeah it's mine it's completely different to that corporate complacency that like perhaps a lot of us have seen in the banner i've certainly seen in the past and yeah like the the amount of hunger and energy in this like new space is just like astonishing and it's really really amazing it's amazing to be a part of it even comparing these tech startups the motivation the engagement level is significantly higher like for me this was really a huge eye-opener when we started visit yeah i think we've covered all of the uh of the questions in the in the chat there i think we generally covered them as we were moving along i was sort of like taking some quick notes and they generally just like organically came up in conversation so i don't think we have any questions left in the chat i think that we've done done a good chunk of time there and we've had a really great conversation vol thank you so much for your time and sam too it's been really excellent to get you on this call and have a chat with you guys and help our community and hopefully the broader audience understand what orion is trying to or not trying to do what orion has built and continuing to build uh you guys have done a really fantastic job and congrats on meeting all of your targets for the uh the private farming and the tvl and everything it's really amazing to see and i'm really stoked for you guys because this is just a like you said earlier of all this is a platform that people like us will use you know like if we want to keep some money in ethan we you know want to get some good yield from terror too it's just there for the taking now and it's this sort of um uh mentality that is bringing these new products to to people in this space and into the community and it's just uh yeah really astonishing and amazing so thank you so much for that thank you very much for inviting us very happy to have this conversation yeah thank you toby uh kevin i think this is just beginning for both of us and i think absolutely just starting so you know we have so much ahead of us to bring bring those people and bring build awareness and you guys are great at it so it's great definitely definitely i hope that we can have you on again in the future it'd be really amazing to have you guys on in another few months or something and catch up with the the updates and see what you uh what new is going on in the orion world i think that would be really awesome too yeah we just look forward to seeing how the the how orion money evolves in the near future it's going to be very exciting yeah great keep collaborating yeah great let's do it great pleasure thank you so much for your time guys really really appreciate it thank you have a great day [Music] you

Channel: Yield Labs

Views: 1,625

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: anchor protocol, Terra, Luna, Yield, 20% APY, Crypto yield, LUNA, Terra ecosystem, Terra dex, Dex, Amm, Orion, Ust, Anchor, Mirror finance, Bitcoin, ethereum, ethereum 2.0, ethereum 2021, sell ethereum, ethereum price, ethereum update, ethereum breakout, ethereum vs bitcoin, ethereum prediction, ethereum price target, eth today, cryptocurrency, price prediction, yield, bitcoin, crypto girls, crypto women, passive income, bull market, orion saver, orion crypto, orion money

Id: Gt1ainVBamk

Length: 78min 53sec (4733 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 05 2021