WoW Killer #34: Torghast Tor-furious

[Music] wow killer is a production of a move dot tv check out a move tv for many more podcasts multiple about blizzard games and for more of taliesin's wow coverage check out taliesin inevitable on youtube and twitch.tv [Music] greetings and welcome back everyone it's wow killer it's michaela he's tally i'm coming in this episode with more technical issues than we've ever experienced and we're a little tilted like you can't tell it's true that's not true what are you even talking about this is nowhere near the most amount of uh technical issues we've ever had you're a liar why are you lying we've had loads more technical issues than this that we've had episodes we've really had to cancel the episode because we can't get stuff working and now you're all like oh it's the most ever everything has to be the biggest and the best with you americans doesn't it we've had much worse problems than this before now the technical issues of this episode are of lifted truck magnitude uh to put it in a term that southern americans can't understand no one else no one else can understand it at all though that's the problem not at all so put it in terms of world of warcraft players can understand it is legendary magnitude oh there we go the technical issues that we have experienced were written in orange text uh-huh you get it yeah i get it i get it i'll get it oh i'm uh i'm gonna do you a massive massive solid here garrett um oh i'm peeking here as well um i'm gonna do a massive solid and i'm going to clap like this so that when you come to put this recording of my vocal on the video later on or or sync it up with your stuff you can do that now because then don't do that before we started the show you're going to really enjoy me for that you're going to be so happy about that later on i'm also gonna appreciate you doing it at the beginning of the show because then it'll be easy for me to find this and cut it out no one will ever even know that we did this exact among though totally we're we're almost we're so we're like 95 professional if you want you can cut this bit out of the actual show before you post it but i don't imagine you will i don't imagine don't bother um so anyways um i i you know before we even get to the main topic of today i have a mini topic which is do you think we're out of the honeymoon phase with shadowlands yeah that's probably out of it i'm so done with shadow lands basically are we yelling one more time then i'm i'm probably done with this entire game i'm gonna have to take a break from my own sanity and for the sake of my channel no what are you talking about i still love it i'm still loving shadowlands oh darn it definitely yeah it's amazing i'm definitely i'm 100 yelling at shadowlands for leaving its socks laying all around the place i don't even know what oh oh like like you're a couple living together and now we're out of them on each other's nerves a bit and stuff and i'm with you i get it and you're like do you know what shadowlands just once just once could you just like rinse the plate before you put it in the dishwasher just for once in your life could you do that because it gets in the filter you don't rinse the plate there's on the plate it gets in the filter you're gonna break the dishwasher and just once maybe you could unload the dishwasher when it's done just once would it hurt you would it kill you shadow answer is that how you're feeling with shadowlands right now is it like is that it is that it yeah pretty much why are you putting coffee grounds in the in the garbage disposal why are you doing that that's that's where i am personally at where do you put coffee ground just out of interest where do you put coffee ground in the trash you can't put that stuff in the garbage disposal it's like it's like putting sand in there mate i literally put it in the sink what a garbage disposal i put that one that's in the sink that's in the sink if you have one i put it in the sink uh so you wait you don't have a sink i do have a sink who doesn't have a say who has a garbage disposal but not a sink they go in this never mind this is you know this isn't the home and this is this is out of hand you see what your hatred of shadowlands has led you to [Laughter] it led you to the dark side what are you even talking about i have no idea listen okay here's the thing gary most of the time i don't really understand you or what you're talking about and i kind of politely nod and like just go um great point garrett really well done fascinating insight but i don't really understand what we talked about but this time i have literally no clue i have no idea what you're talking about i have i'm lost are you saying you don't like shadow lands is that what's happening no you think anyone who does like shadowlands is an idiot is that what this is it sounds like that's what you're saying i mean more or less yeah i mean everyone who listens to this that isn't me including you is an idiot but uh really this was meant to be a soft lead into our actual topic today and it just failed spectacularly which basically i was trying to get up to the point of of of this taliesin which is you know i i have no idea not a not a nerdy uh a student of any sort but there is a concept out there and it has a technical name and i'm sure someone smarter than me will inform you what this is but basically the more perfect something is tellison the more the imperfections stick out and kenten tend to to make themselves apparent to you and that's what i was curious if you're starting the experience with shadow lens because today we're going to be revisiting tour gas and talking about the little things about tour gas that maybe irk us or are irking the community and uh where we see it potentially going uh as a live and constantly changing part of channel lands okay i think i follow you a little bit better now garrett um is that why we've called this episode tough ass tall furious it's because i mean that's why you called it i mean i have it written down on the notes as the problem with talking because it's on my stream now garrett we do this on my stream now so i get to name it so i get to name the episodes and that means a lot of these episodes of wow killer garrett are going to be based on fast and furious puns just you know i mean i am complete have you seen the color of the last time this is gonna happen have you seen the color of my vehicle i am on board for this i have not seen the color of your vehicle no or your car uh well done um i am always on board for a special fire today this is the best podcast i've ever done i'm on fire this is this is more better now this will never be better god you are lucky guys you're here for this this is the best wow killer that i've ever seen this is the best one ever wow this is amazing this is so good if we stopped it now it would be the best wow killer ever maybe we should have people listening like yeah please seriously no okay where is this going there's a lot it's going here you're right i actually actually i take your point there is a lot in in uh shadowlands now which you know you're right you're right the little niggles and the after the honeymoon period the little niggles and the little frustrations are starting to show so for example we couldn't do a weekly reset this week on my youtube channel talia's never tell do games check it out maybe um which is our weekly show because we had some family problems because my brother's got coronavirus but um the title of the weekly reset this week was going to be the raid is too hard and there's not enough loot um that was going to be the title of it and um so that's representing some of the niggles that people have with the expansion at the moment one of which is that the raid is too hard and one of which although it has to be said the people taking place like a place uh taking part in the race to world first the mythic race right now i may be proving that wrong but when heroic went live everyone was like oh man this is really hard this is really difficult i can't even oh my god this is so hard like it took over a day for heroic um daenerys to go down you know so it was very hard and then blizzard turned around they went oh yeah all that loot you've been getting it's too much too much loot we didn't mean for it to be that much uh as as we you know they we said for a group of 20 there should be about three pieces of loot it's dropping like five right now so we're just gonna take away i'm not gonna take away luke people have got but we're gonna just nerf that and and fix that so it's like and what it should be yeah and people were like but my loot not my loot like that and so yeah you know these these little niggles are starting to come up um and you know people got some issues with the way the vault is working uh yesterday and today and and giving out loot and things like that and you're right one of them one of the criticisms and the little niggles that i've heard coming to the surface have been to do with tour gas so what have you heard about tour gas that people don't like um the big one i keep seeing is just how damn long it takes uh and i mean hell one of the top posts on on the reddit this week um which i've actually been reading because i can't stand the hearthstone one anymore is that uh the increasing the health it doesn't actually make it harder it just literally does nothing but increase the time it takes to complete which i don't disagree with yeah i i would agree with that i i mean yeah i have a point there okay so how much how much tour gust have you done uh a ton uh because as someone who's not currently rating one of one of the ways i do have control over trying to stay somewhat up to date is maxing out my soul lash especially since i hit 60 so late in the first week that i started behind on my soul ash never again oh yeah well we tried to warn you about that garrett we did try and say we were like gary if there's one thing you do then make sure you stay up to date with your soul ash and what did you do you went and got a haircut where's the soul ash now garrett and you look lovely honestly you look so beautiful right now but where's yours i could never truly love you garrett because i could never truly love someone who isn't up to date on their soul ash that's the thing well well i mean if i am looking lovely that's more than i can say for my uh character who only has badass looking legendary boots but has no hope of ever getting that full set matching because you can't transmogrify legendary looks on the rest of the why make a beautiful armor set if i can't wear that full beautiful armor said it's all coming in what are you doing it's all coming out now garrett's coming out it's our garrett shadowlands official this is shadowlands straight up now that you hate shadowlands what are you gonna do like because you've got to cut you've got to go on the instance and pretend that you like shadow lands or you could just be like just just be like patrick and make no attempt to pretend [Laughter] you can't do this to me man you can't do this to me we've this is that's right i'm trying to make you slag off your other friends that you do a different podcast with i'm like hey garrett you're in this podcast now should we swag off your other podcast should we slag off all your other friends mike's gonna make me talk crap about jocelyn and kyle next yeah sure let's just throw scott johnson under the bus too while i'm at it um no i'm gonna fight you on that man no i'm 100 tying this back into the my opening with this which is the more perfect something is the more the little things bother you and that shadow ends i love it i am over the freaking moon with this expansion i'm having a really good time but yeah stuff like that stuff that i'm like damn that legendary armor set for plate looks amazing and then i go to try and transmogrify to test it because i didn't look this stuff up ahead of time and go wait i can't transmogrify my armor to look like other legendary pieces why why even bother designing legendary armor what you need is a macro that if you've got the whole set okay like it's a cast sequence macro that swaps out every piece of armor like in sequence and you just got to do it really fast so to the naked eye it looks like you're wearing the full set uh that's what i'm usually going to do when i'm you're going like from the chest that's going to be my new legs to like help to shoulders so quickly that to any normal human being it looks like you're wearing the whole transmog set but you know you know garrett that you're not no that's i'm going to call that my new mailbox macro because that's what i'm going to do when i'm standing on top of a mailbox well um but so yeah has this is true you you can't uh obviously you can't wear more than one legendary at the moment um and also you can't transmog any normal gear into the legendary appearances even if you've like got legendaries with that appearance um which means that you can't wear the whole set and look amazing in that set which is kind of defies a lot of the point um ian azerkasis has said that that will be loosened that restriction will be loosened later on in expansion so come the end of the expansion at the latest you know come the last patch of the expansion at the latest i suspect it'd be long before that to be honest um like a point two or something uh you will be able to do that garrett so you can go back to loving wow again when that happens maybe he's stopped the time being just can't see a subscription have a break honestly like it's fine you know what i hope they do like i legitimately mean this i want to one day like without i want them to give me no pre information about how i will be able to eventually just like show my whole set of legendary awesomeness i just want to you know wander over into the hollow curiosities because i got a new chess piece and it doesn't match anymore and i need to go to the transmogrifier and that transmogrifier is going to have a big old orange exclamation point over its head and is gonna send me on some ridiculous awesome quests just to unlock the privilege to transmogrify everything that look like this uh this totally rad legendary armor set that's what i want yeah that's not to happen but i mean nobody's so cool what it'll happen when we we finally release the rune carver right and he's out of the mall okay so here's something i've been thinking about and we are going to talk about tour gust in a minute but here's something i've been i've been i've been thinking about quite a lot actually so you know the jailer he's like the baddie of shadowlands right okay now we all suspect that there's gonna be something else as well that we we don't know about yet where the story is kind of gonna go and what have you but where do you you know if you had to if you had to guess based on what we know right now where do you let's assume that the jailer is the final boss of shadowlands okay just for the sake of argument whether we actually think it is or not where do you see like the final raid where you take out the jailer like happening i think i i i as it's funny you mentioned this i was running around the mall doing some dailies and and hat and this thought just kind of washed over me i was just thinking to myself is the final raid tour guest are we going to get tour gas the raid because that would be right well because you've spent so much time in tour gust already you're already here crying in front of all the people watching this live stream talking about how much you hate tour gas and how much it like but you know how how how much you're hating shadowlands and how anyone no i don't think it will be because of it and like same with the more man we're running around the more like absolute idiots like just killing stuff and like what i'm saying is we're spending a lot of time in the more and we're spending a lot of time in tour gas already like plenty of hours per week do we i mean do you want a raid in the more i don't know i'm taught i think it's going to echo the end of wrath of lich king we got multiple dungeons with the release of the icc raid that look like icc they're taking place in and around icc there's a lot can be saved with unique level design okay so if the if the raid is like the fall of the jailer like when it was fall literally whatever but it's like it's basically taking place at the top of tour gas that reaches of tour gas what we never see that look nothing like the legitimately frequently repeating floors that we currently see when we run tour gas like it's going to be big and expansive and open and not randomized i think it'll be fine you know yeah if they just if they just repurpose the same stupid random floors that we're currently doing now is like daily content of our of our wild lives yeah that would be a bit of a bummer but i don't i can't see a universe where that is what happens i don't know man because like the example you just gave where um icc launched and there were dungeons based around it as well that was all the same patch okay that was like you know one of the later patches of you know it was whether or not it was the last patch it was it was essentially the climactic patch of uh wrath of the lich king anything that came afterwards was epilogue and and like so the raid launching with dungeons that were based around the raid launching at the same time in the same patch is one thing but having tour gas which we go into every single week for longer than you go in for a dungeon which we're going to get to in a moment and you know like you have to do it multiple times on multiple characters and things like that and you're doing that all uh all patch and then let's say you're doing it all through 8.2 as well and let's say you're doing is still doing it through 8.3 as well and then at the end of the entire thing if you're fighting the the jailer and he's the big baddie and you've got to take him down and then after all that after a whole expansion of being in tour gas the entire expansion then you have the final raid and the final boss fight in torgast that's different that's not the same as like icc launching with dungeons of icc launching at the same time i i just disagree if if if the art if it's all new assets like it's a completely different look you're seeing but why why would it be a completely different look um i feel like you've broken me i literally don't know how to explain this the more obvious but no i i i can appreciate it it can be different like a different like part of tool gas that we haven't seen or whatever but it's still going to be tour gas right like it's not going to look different it's going to be like okay so it's not going to be one of the room i think we're getting hung up on on semantics here like it's going to be the same aesthetic but it's going to be wholly new rooms and designs and reaches of this giant tower i mean and really let me let me reframe it in a different way tell me listen what is the one image that has been repeated in in shadowlands marketing and the login screen over and over and over and over and over again in relation to shadowlands volvo oh did i answer that on the login screen you might you might try to make it easy for you here icecrown ice crown and tour gas ripping through the goddamn sky there is no world mark my words tell you so we're gonna have the first garrett was right on wild killer mark my words there is no way we get out of the fight with the jailer without it taking place on an inverted version of that view we're gonna be at the top of tour gas looking at ice crown in the sky i believe that there's no way that there's no way that happens if we don't enter tour gas for some portion if not the entire final raid maybe maybe see for me oh sorry i just had a really exciting thought go do it because my thought is not exciting at all you play any fighting games you you're ever a mortal kombat fan back in the day back in the day yeah okay all right okay what a fighting game style you know we hit the final phase of the jailer we uppercut his ass through the sky and we all as a raid fall through to the top of ice crown and murder his ass yeah sounds good it kind of sounds like a full circle right if you were if you were george lucas writing the end of your star wars movie this would come full circle and that's how we kill it that's how we killed it lucas didn't write the end of his star wars movies he started filming them and he was like okay everyone back here tomorrow for the end and they're like cool what's happening he's like oh we'll work it out when we get here it's confusing lucas with uh jj abrams maybe yeah um no jj abrams he's like okay here's the end of the movie guys what do you think and everyone goes i don't understand a thing jj and he's like perfect that's exactly what i wanted my main aim with it 17 cool ideas and no time to explore any of them um i'm sorry lucas is like what you want an ending you want an ending jesus christ next you'll be asking for a beginning and middle come on at least we got at least we got anakin padme on naboo for uh way too much time in episode two oh we forgot luke and leia okay quickly show her the babies say luke okay show her the other baby say leia okay good that's done and lo the circle is complete this is one of those days details where i am completely incapable of wrangling you a genius writing amazing amazing writing so good quick show of the baby say luke luke nice one brilliant keep acting keep the cameras rock keep them rolling keep them rolling show the other baby we haven't got another baby show the same baby okay say leia leia great print it okay so so party time the final raid they're going to be like show them tour gas the top of this stations goes through the go through the top go through the top now make it upside down print it brilliant perfect great perfect cut print it was right moving on that's what's going to happen i'm just saying like do you really think we're not going to get some beautiful face off with the with the jailer no no and that's i mean that's kind of fully what i expect is that we can get some beautiful uh face off with a jailer and i would expect that you're quite right i'd expect that to be in tour gust um uh and but i'm thinking do i want that or am i gonna be bored shitless at all ghast right now because even with the multiple different wings that we have at all gas and what we've had six so far six different wings at all gas with all their like many different shapes and sounds and smells and uh like appearances and stuff and you know like procedurally generated and yet i seem to get like the same room quite a lot and um yeah same yeah i've seen that that could just be one exception i've seen that lava room that sticks out like a sore thumb because it's the only room that's a different color once obviously once i saw it oh my god without fail once on oh really yeah that's the one i like never see um but the one that does the the right branch where you could just go right and get to the end immediately or go left and kill a thing and jump down i have seen that one like every run wow and this is what we're saying like exactly exactly so you know already the kind of the the unlimited possibilities of tour gas are feeling a bit more uh limited um and that's not even you know for me yeah it's not my biggest complaint i i wouldn't mind it so much and and i'm going to bring it back around to the the kind of binding agent with community conversation around tour guides that i've seen which is just the length of runs which just goes up and up to higher and higher heights not unlike tour gas itself um as the difficulty goes up because the health gets increased and it just takes you longer to go through and and and to me that's kind of the it's really kind of stripping away uh at hitting that euphoric roguelike feel for me yeah um you know because when i when i play something like hades it gets harder but it doesn't feel like the franticness or the speed of the combat is slowing down at all it just feels like i'm screeching even more as i'm playing through it so i i don't quite feel that um there's a lot that you just said that i agree with so i agree with the general length of tour gas and that does certainly seem to be the main complaint and and by people and the complaint being that it's right and proper that taught has like a fail state you know it's it's really important that tool gas has a fail state and it's one of the things i really like about tool gas is it's one of the few things in wow that genuinely has a failed state like islands had a failed state but you never really saw it um like uh war fronts had a fail state but you never really you know you definitely never saw it was actually literally impossible at first um but eventually it had a fail state um you know like raids you can you can wipe on a boss but you can get up and go again um and you know it's it's a one-off you only have to kill it once really and you know got the achievement stuff and taught us is different tour guides you can go in there and you can bop through five floors you know which is going to take you 40 minutes probably if you're doing it right and you know that can be relatively easy and then you can get to the final boss and those final bosses are no joke depending on what class you are and which final boss you get and how lucky or not you've been with your powers and those bosses can kick your ass and then you're out of tour gas and you're gone and you've lost your chance and you've you've wasted 45 minutes uh for zero reward and you have to start again and whereas i'm really really happy that that fail state is there and i don't want to lose that i don't want to lose the fact that you can get very unlucky with powers because i think that's really fun as well because it means you can get really lucky with powers um and i i don't want to lose like the terror group and you getting chucked out and i don't want to lose i'm following you entirely i think that's all part of the gamification like if the good powers wouldn't feel good if the bad like the highs wouldn't feel high if the lows didn't feel low you have that that pendulum and and knowing that it exists and having experienced both end of ends of those pendulums is what makes tour gas interesting yeah exactly and and it's one of the reasons i like to go into tour guest in a group um partly because you have a little bit of a safety net you get more um uh dispels and and interrupts uh which is super important on those final bosses and like the more people you've got in there the more spells interrupts you've got and like just the easier the boss is simple as that um and also the more people you have in your group and it's maximum five of course but the more people you have in your group the more chance one of you has got of getting a delete everything build like an easy mode build like if it's just you you might get a good build you might get a bad build if there's five of you chances are one of you is gonna get a delete everything build and that's like totally worth having it's worth going through with five people just for that for the interrupts and for the the the likelihood that one of you is going to get an amazing build and and kind of make everything irrelevant um so for me the only problem yeah i and this is this has just been a very long way of me agreeing with you and explaining why is is the length of time that it takes because to preserve the randomness of it maybe it'll be good maybe you'll get absolutely screwed to preserve the fail state which is really important to preserve like the final boss being really hard which i think is awesome like i think it's awesome how hard the boss is like it's great again that's not something we get very often in single player wow or even kind of like lower level group content which this kind of is um is is like some genuine difficulty i'd like to keep that as well um i to keep all that stuff i feel like we have to make tour gust shorter for like a single run like 25 minutes half an hour would seem the kind of the sweet spot for that i i agree uh it's like the rule for most youtube videos um you want to keep it under that third oh is it oh damn oh no and again i don't that explains it at a certain point like i don't think i wouldn't mind as much if it was if it stayed the 40 minutes if it just felt like the combat was a little kind of quicker and snappier um but yeah in general i think i'd i'd much rather it get closer to that 25-minute mark uh kind of kind of regardless of the difficulty like i would rather be kind of gated by dying sooner than having 35 minutes invested and then running out of lives and dying and just being like happy but then that's something else which is another thing you said which was something i don't really uh um feel i feel represented by um is that you said that you're kind of on your on the seat of your pants all the way through toolgast i don't feel that at all i feel like the first floor and particularly the beginning of the first floor is is super hairy depending on like how lucky or not you get but you can get things in that first floor which like i mean they can wipe you there and then you get through that usually okay but it's also like that's where it feels the slowest and the most methodical oh yeah sure but for me it does speed up and it does start to feel a lot easier as you go on you get i i feel like your powers scale faster than the enemies on other floors and stuff like that so for me like you get past the first floor the first bit of the second floor maybe um and the first law is when almost all of the deaths happen and then from then on in you're kind of just blowing through stuff as long as you're being careful but then there is this huge spike when you get to the boss again which could just wipe you um and and so in many ways it would kind of be better if it got harder more noticeably as you went up so there's more chance of like if it was beyond you it wiping you completely and getting you kicked before you kind of had blown through the entire thing and got to the the boss i feel like one of the problems is that it doesn't scale with you until that final boss so you start off and it's really hard um and you might lose a few lives and things but then it starts getting easier and you're like wait and so you know you're kind of like blowing through a bit more but you've only got a few lives left and then you get to the end and it kicks your ass and i feel like it'd be better if it scaled a bit harsher so that maybe you wiped on the third floor i've never wiped on the third or fourth or fifth floor you know it's always only ever been the first or second floor or the boss there's no in between um and i don't know i don't know maybe having that no in between adds to that sense of waste you know it's like well i got once fast past the first and second floors you're gonna get to the end but that might kill you yeah yeah and that's that's that's what it's it's coming down to um it's it just that's how i'm getting distracted reading reading chat room it's like chad i understand that it's a little bit different from class to class we're doing our best to talk somewhat generally here we're not going to bullet list every class in the game it's like um yeah i mean you basically hit the nail on the head for kind of where my my where my thoughts are with it and i think again it all comes back to the length of a run right i wouldn't even mind the kind of it's either the first floor or the last four where it kicks your ass right i wouldn't mind that as much if it wasn't taking me 40 minutes to get to that last floor and find out if the game just decided to kind of bone me that's fair enough and i guess the argument is that i mean later on it's not going to take you that long because i mean the flaws are scaling and am i right do they go up to 12 floors or is it 18 floors um overall uh but because they it goes up to floor i did floss i did the sixth layer um last week and this week i can go up to an eighth layer um but i don't know how much it's going to go up to overall before it kind of caps it's 18 okay 18. so there's there's quite a way to go there's another like five weeks to go before it caps but the idea is like eventually you will be out gearing it i guess so it will be a lot quicker um to do yeah so i think uh to kind of take this in a slightly different direction the point i've kind of reached is we know they're going to be adjusting tour gas in some fashion right i'm kind of at the point now where i want to start here and talks about that i want to start hearing some kind of hard hard facts about their wha how they think tour gas has gone here in the opening month of of shadowlands and and where they see it going in the future because to me it's i still like it enough i think it is interesting enough that it's the kind of thing i'm just like i i want to see them continue to tweak this um in what way and well uh obviously the length in the way that we talked about it another another thing i saw coming out of the community i really like this idea is um to make it feel a little more snappy and and truly rogue like why are we stopping the loop like just just just have have every when we kill things have us just absorb whatever it is that they're giving us and move and just keep going sure um to kind of try and keep up that that tempo that other roguelikes have which is like just keep going just keep going i'd like to offer a counter point to that in that i mean we call tour gas the roguelike but it's it's not and like you know it's kind of being used as a vague kind of concept for tour gas but i mean it's it's not is it and that's the thing like there is it could be though yeah but but the thing is once you get in once you get in there and you start doing it you realize it's not even really supposed to be and i think that's the problem we're having i disagree okay so i i have a counterpoint to your kind of point with an in-game example okay i mean you don't because i haven't actually explained my counterpoint yet but that's fine go for it uh what if they don't want us to move through it at a somewhat rapid pace why then are there things i can buy from the vendor that have a minute and a half timer on it good point good point so i would say that's something that is kind of obviously uh has been conceptualized before tool gas has kind of taken shape and doesn't fit what torgast has kind of ended up as right so um by the way don't tell every that because she was lucky enough to get one of those things from the vendor that made you immune for a minute and a half like on the sixth floor before she took on the final boss and she was like one of those this week too my dick immunity yeah i got immunity for a minute and a half on the final boss and i was just like beautiful i am a god but as a lot of people in the comments uh in this livestream are saying and i i agree with them like um taught is if it is a roguelike it's a very slow and methodical one you know like it's it's based on cc and it's based on uh like interrupts uh as as much as it is kind of blowing through anything um a lot of i mean that's borne out in the animal powers a lot of which are based on cc and interrupts and fears and things like that and empowering those so i i don't think that's a mistake i think that is intended and um you know the best experiences and the most interesting experiences i've had in toolgast have been in five man groups where we're on comms and we go in and it is a bull-bustingly hard kind of first room that they've given us you know one of those oh one of those shitty totally open ones with like all the millions of mobs and they're all those skinny skull-headed guys who do like the really shitty casts those dudes i hate those rooms i hate those guys and you go and you know they need constant interrupting and they need like um constant kind of fighting yeah and and you know and in those cases it has felt like a raid you know it has felt like a five-man raid where you have to be really careful and you have to be talking to each other and you have to be like planning things and then executing it and then catching your breath before the next bit um and and for me the thing you're describing the kind of like momentum filled kind of running from one thing to the next not bothering to loot uh you know it all kind of happening and something you don't need to worry about till the end i mean that's mythic plus right it the mythic plus is still methodical at a speed right like you're still you're very like you're you're making very distinct decisions on your pulls and how you're moving through it you're right but i would argue that the the methodical side of that comes before you even start like that stuff that you've worked on and you've planned and if you you know if you're if you're a a team that you team up with a lot you've practiced in advance and then you put that into action like when when the thing starts but you're not kind of like you're not doing that in real time as it were you might be reacting to things when they go wrong or unexpected things but essentially like the thing you're describing the mythology and mythology of mythic plus is something that you do in advance you work out your route and you go okay we're gonna stun this guy we're gonna do this we're gonna pull that we're gonna like aoe all this stuff like that that's something that you you do in advance and then you go in there and you execute the plan um it's not something you're working out in the moment like you do in tour guest yeah i guess i don't just agree i don't agree that wanting to move through something quickly is the end-all be-all of two things feeling the same because the reason you want to move through a mythic plus quickly is the timer aspect that is the reason that it drives you to do it quickly whereas i want the reason i move through tour gas quickly to be it just feels i feel empowered to do so yeah like i just i it's it's this brawler it's this knock down fight it's just keep going keep going keep going because i feel powerful and i'm able to do that and i'm i'm not breaking the flow constantly with looting or even puzzles and i don't mind the puzzles as much i know it's been a sore spot for some players um but it does add to that like oh my god oh my god let's go let's go oh wait hold on let's see uh red blue oh okay that reset everything okay green right oh crap okay let's see um but you know it it does feel a little strange to me to a certain degree i don't know i'd rather have like a combat puzzle instead of a stop and match the like i don't know i just want tour gas to be a murder hallway yeah i think that's fair um i'm playing devil's advocate a little bit as well yeah yeah but i mean i think you're you're bringing in some interesting places but um because yeah i mean a lot of this is and how it ties back into that conversation we're just having about how do you make a tour gas raid uh not feel disappointing after you spent the entire expansion in tour guests and it's like well it's not all the same yeah yeah having two modes in the game that are based around getting through it quickly you know i think that's okay as long as it's like a different feel and you know tour gas is already i think unique enough and if we i i want to push the things that make tour guests unique further because i find them interesting and i want to get i want to get as far away from it feeling like a dungeon run as possible do you think maybe you're waiting for the endless halls because that thing that you're describing of like you know just pushing on and pushing and pushing on is that not slightly undermined whatever the actual gameplay feels like is that not undermined by the fact that you know you're just aiming for the sixth floor you know and you know that's where the boss is and you know that's where it ends so your your feeling of kind of pushing on and pushing on and like you know getting new powers and not even really thinking about it and being like um and it being a murderful way is that not kind of capped by the cap on how far are you ever going to go into august at the moment is that not maybe something that you would hope would come later with the with the unlimited version of the game i i will say i think it's difficult for me to kind of give that a fair shake when my like my most fully formed critique of tour gas right now is that just takes too damn long sure so so my my brain goes to you have a point but also i want to move through quicker so i i don't i you haven't won me over yet yeah yeah okay i mean and that's that's a totally fair point and i i agree with the the very basic point that i think two gas runs are too long um and i think they could they could you know like even on the very like i say my best tour gas experiences have been when i've been in a group and we've gone in and you know in that first week where we were doing the top layers that were available we were under geared and that stuff was kicking our asses and you know we had to be really careful and we had to like create interrupt uh um sort of uh uh orders and and you know really cc the out of stuff and and and really kind of knuckle it down and that was an amazing experience for like two floors um and by the time we got past two floors we were all like powered enough to not really have to do that anymore um and to be able to blast through it a bit and and also even if we were still doing that it would probably have got a bit old by that point anyway because you're talking like you know you're 20 25 minutes into the run at that point and to be honest you're kind of ready for the final boss there so i'm not so kind of i'm not so keen on the idea of it being a murder hallway as you because i kind of like the methodical sort of approach that you can have if you need to um but i i i certainly agree that it doesn't need to last six whole floors right yeah yeah i i get i guess right now it feels like i'm forced to be methodical constantly and i wouldn't mind it like i i think it'd be better if there was a bit of a of a change in tempo like uh let's let's clear the room clear the hallway clear the room clear the hallway all right it's the the boss it's the end of this room let's just take a breather anyone have anything they can pop are we ready all right pool as opposed to right now especially when you get in those rooms where it's like forced five pulls and up um you're just like okay all right we're gonna need to wait for our cooldowns for every single pole well you know blizz did have a a mechanic in place to stop that you know um but people got really angry in the alpha and they had to take it out that yeah i don't think that those people were wrong though no i don't either i don't know you can't be methodical we're just gonna murder you and rip you out of this experience like i don't think that's also particularly great design it's it's a little more interesting i will give you that i will hand you that that's slightly more interesting but again this is something we're meant to interface with regularly and repeat every week and that would get old like it would just kind of wear out it's welcome it would just feel like another mechanic yeah and repeat at least twice every week as well don't forget like there's two different wings at all guys to open at a time and you know like if like for example this week i can't just jump into you know it's three times while while the the layers are increasing it's going to be at least three times a week that you're running to a gas because you have to run one wing on like the one new layer before you can do it at the top layer and then you can jump into the other wing on the top layer and like that's three times a week that you're running it per character like as these new uh layers are opening up and that's gonna happen for at least the next five weeks uh or six weeks if it's uh 18 18 layers and i mean that's to be running tour gas at least three times a week that's assuming you you do it every time as well um on every character you have it's a lot of tall ghast runs man that is a lot if each run takes 40 minutes it's a lot of there's a lot of runs uh oh the the captain eight i thought they were kept at 18. sorry okay eight layers eighteen four so this is the highest this week i thought people said in the uh oh okay 18 floors to the twisting corridors okay so i i got the wrong answer that when i asked earlier sorry um uh yeah okay so it won't happen again now so it'll be two runs a week after this week my apologies my apologies um but that's still like 80 minutes a week uh assuming that you're doing it you know um on every character and she's keeping up right it's a lot like man i'll be honest i'll be honest i looked at um i looked at the second wing this week because i had i hadn't unlocked the final the final wing you know so i because it was again a little behind so i did my layer i guess seven and it unlocked eight and all that was left was 50 soul ash and i'm like yeah yeah just i'll just let that go yeah that's not worth my time is is was the the sense i got and so like yeah there's these other strange things that it's been you know taking my podcaster brain who likes to wax philosophical about this game world of warcraft um which is i was like at least with the way it currently is maybe maybe the devs had a point maybe they should have like locked us out uh and and need a way to unlock and get into our run each week i i disagree 100 with that yeah listen i was playing double gonna bring it back around too but then my brain goes no they should they shouldn't make it feel good enough that you want to go back into it or you want to go help your friend out even though you're capped for soul ash for the week um which and again this is all and i want to make it abundantly clear that for me this is all coming from a place of i like torgast and i'm i am thinking about it constantly because it is interesting enough it is a unique enough launch experience in here with the start of this expansion that i'm thinking about it pretty damn often and so bring it back to the beginning of the show that's i think why the things that that irk me about it uh stick out so much is because it's it is you a pretty damn unique experience in world of warcraft and especially when i compared to the you know for lack of a better word side experience as a bfa when i compare it to island expeditions when i compare it to war fronts i did i never thought about those again i was just like oh i don't particularly care for these i would rather just not interface with them whereas tour gas i'm like this is cool i want to want to do it more but right now you know once i'm capped for so last for the week my buddy hits me and goes hey man you want to help me through your tour guest i just go oh that's that's a lot of time i don't really want to spend helping out my friend i mean now that i've been corrected as to how many uh layers of tool gas they're actually going to be i'd like to actually revise my opinion somewhat and and disagree with you okay because like if we are now this week at the cap for floors so you know there's eight layers from now on yeah i think we should say start saying layers in that floor yeah because it's very confusing i know sorry um but uh so we're we've opened up the eight layers now and we only have to jump in there every week like do you do you know the the eighth layer of each of the two wings is open and you've got your maximum amount of soul ash from tour gas that you can get in a week awesome you do your weekly uh kind of uh um uh bolvar thing excellent fantastic that's a bit different because you know i'm at the stage where i'm well aware however hard that eighth layer is when i go in there this week and apparently is a bit of a killer um it's only going to get easier you know like the gear i'm at right now and the item level i'm at right now i would expect you know in a couple of weeks i would expect to be drastically higher having had a couple of weeks in raid um and and going into heroic and you know maybe mythic and stuff as well having another couple of weeks with the uh the great vault giving me loot options and man so great having those options from the vault having like a weekly chest that gives you choices that you choose between and you're like oh my god like it's like it's not just a better way of gearing but much more importantly it's a much better way of optimizing you know so like people who were complaining last week about they're not being enough gear in mythic plus i i i think they're going to take that back after a couple of weeks of having the vault because it's so obviously a more efficient way of gearing and and it's like it's outrageously efficient and people are gonna be going into tour gas so much like literally twice as geared as they are now um and they're gonna be blowing holes in it and they're gonna be like scooting through it and like genuinely you know it's gonna be a lot more like what you described that you'd want to be honest and it's going to take a fraction of the amount of time to blast through um because it's not it doesn't scale with your eye level like the eighth layer is the eighth layer that's what it is as far as right i think i'm right okay so at the end the tools is different but and that means that actually for me my worry might even be the opposite my worry might be that it becomes more like island expeditions where it's something that because of a lack of difficulty and a lack of kind of care that you have to take in a lot of lack of thought that you eventually have to give it it becomes something which is essentially like you don't even take in and it's just a blip and it's annoying and boring as a result of that you know um i don't know what do you think what do you think of that what do you think about apples eh yeah i you know again it's as i have been all episode i think you have some good points i just don't necessarily think it addresses kind of my hopes and desires um like i part of what makes short guest unique compared to you know a traditional roguelike or a standalone game where this is what it is it is a roguelike that's all this game is going to be um is that we're taking in our mmo characters these are characters that a lot of us have had for ever for over a decade um and it has and these are these are characters that are outfitted with gear and and specs and abilities outside from outside of tor gas outside a a somewhat rogue-like mode and so that is unique and and they do need to have that have some effect right otherwise it would feel weird it's like well i'm getting i'm getting better gear i'm gearing up i'm doing the regular world of warcraft thing i'm going to go step in the tour guest it would feel weird if that didn't have some sort of effect if that didn't make it a little bit easier for you but the other thing we haven't really discussed is the the anima abilities in tour guest itself which i feel like it could just be crazier like i i think that could also play a role in alleviating some of the the things we've talked about today give me an example how would you like to see them be crazier well i i i i don't know i can only speak to my experiences so i've been playing a lot of warrior and you know i was thinking about we were when we were having i had this thought on my mind while we were having the conversation about how methodical your pulls are in in tour gas and for me nothing makes me more methodical than a five five or ten poles with those damn uh dudes that shackle you because then it slows you down and you actually get hit by those frontal cones that the other dudes do and when there's five or ten of them especially i can't tell i've been soloing almost every week now um it's hard to tap target the right butthole and and and interrupt them so like i'm never going if this was an actual roguelike i would have been able to unlock like a permanent ability that takes my shockwave off the global cooldown in tour gas and it's just like i think that it was cool the first couple of weeks the tour gas abilities now seem really tame to me it's like oh yeah it's great to do more damage especially since i'm going as a prop warrior but it's also a little dull and just not all that exciting like i i don't know i want big ridiculous things happening out of my character when i'm going through here i want i don't want it to look like just another world of warcraft run i get that i get that and i mean i've seen some pretty crazy abilities in fairness like last time i went in there with evertale she was shooting people and sometimes they'd turn into a chair and sometimes they'd turn into a shoe i have never seen this it's awesome it like it obviously instantly kills them there's just a chance that whenever you damage someone it's going to instantly kill them and i think this applies to the big boss at the end as well and it doesn't just it also turns them into an inanimate object so you'll be fighting some big dude and suddenly you just turn into a chair and you're like oh that was good it's magnificent and like i agree with you that's the kind of stuff and having the um i mean the the meme is the is the uh um the priest sorry the the mage coming out of invisibility the arcane mage coming out invisibility and that empowering their next arcane blast right or so like you just you can do i i believe the mage from our guild immortalis who is on our a team was written up in icy veins today or yesterday uh as an example of someone who i think holds the record for the highest um single damage uh from in in taught because of because of that ability um which is insane i think he did like 12 million damage or something stupid i might be exaggerating it's big it's big um yeah the uh and um and so stuff like that and i agree with you like that kind of stuff is cool there's some really cool builds that you can get for uh priests which do feel a bit ridiculous um my favorite as event there is like i can eventually get instant cast um door of shadows the teleport on like a 10 second cooldown and when i teleport through uh mobs they take increased damage for like 30 seconds and you can stack that up to like a hundred percent as well so you're just constantly like teleporting through people to give them uh debuffs and then zapping them down it's awesome so much fun yeah i agree and i think i think like insane anime powers is something that we will see added i feel like this is this is the week where the final the final um layer of tool gas is unlocked so you know this is in many ways the last week it's actually going to be challenging this is like at the beginning expansion where you go in like remember in ward before mythic plus existed and you went in and those dungeons were hard man you went into wad dungeons and they were really difficult like you know they were yeah everything before this is just how dungeons work oh this is so hard but then you never did dungeons again for the rest of the expansion you know once you've done them on heroic it was like i mean why would you go into dungeons again you outgear them so much like you just blow through them they can't put any rewards in there and that's why they had to invent mythic dungeons like towards the end of world to kind of try and make them relevant again and mythic plus actually solved the problem properly and like it's it's a bit like that it's that thing of like yeah okay so now tour gas is still slow and methodical but every single week from now on it's going to get faster and faster and then they can start having some real fun with it then they can start and you know when when the idea isn't to be a challenge anymore really and they're kind of savouring it being a challenge right now i kind of feel but it's not going to be afterwards although the the idea is that that is with the endless halls right so like you go in and you do your two layers a week of normal wings and maybe that's something they can have fun with i'd be very surprised if you didn't see more extreme anime powers kind of introduced um as certainly as the patches go on uh whether or not we get them before 9.1 i'm not sure but i i'd be very surprised if we didn't see more animal powers added like of the sort that you're describing sounds like prop warrior got a bad shake actually they sound pretty boring they're they're a little dull as much as it's cool that like i can't remember last time i failed to run um because i just kind of feel like an unkillable you know uh wall of armor um yeah i mean yeah but right now my favorite ability is tied to my covenant uh the the ancient aftershock that the knight fake it there is an animal ability that makes it it gives it a a small chance to happen on an auto attack and that's great and awesome but that's kind of it yeah um everything else is really subtle um so i'm going for these like low cool down higher damage shield slam builds which is cool it'd be amazing if like if this was out in the rest of the world of warcraft world that'd be nuts but in tour gas it's just like well you could have done anything in here yeah this just it just seems a little tame is all is all it really comes down to and so again wanna hammer at home it's coming from a place that like i really like this it's super interesting i would like to see them just push it and mold it and shape it further yeah genuinely i think i think certainly when it comes to animal powers that's something we're really going to see another thing that's worth bearing in mind is like yeah like it's going to get easier as these weeks go by and it's going to get massively easier like the jumps you see in how easy it is to run layer eight of tall gas i think we might even be underestimating i think it's gonna it's gonna get so easy but also i think it's four weeks it's gonna be trivial oh yeah exactly the other thing that goes along with that is why are you running tool ghast legos man yeah exactly like how many legos do you want like at what stage are you gonna reach a point where you're like i mean i've got like i'm not gonna swap this lego out so yeah i'd like to have all of the legos but do i really need to go into tour gust every week i really really really want the full armor set for when eventually i can i can transmog it but in reality in the short term in terms of just playing the game and having a good time on my main i want three okay yeah it's pretty it's pretty specific to warrior like one is significantly better for everything but raids as a prop warrior and one's really good for raids as a prop warrior and then i want best in slot for fury just so i can go level quicker daily daily grind quicker that level you know what i mean okay so i mean like you're like at the moment i'm like obviously i want to get kind of uh i haven't actually got my best legendary yet because it's on a boss that we haven't reached yet in the raid i know poor me cry me a river like holy priests are like yeah my my best legendary is literally on denathrius i have to complete the raid i have to i have to win the raid before i get my best raid legendary thanks sounds like you need a better raid awesome brilliant amazing fantasy why isn't why is it more telus just like one-shotting on day one that's that sounds like a problem we have to give all the other immortal skills a chance you know it's like it's just not fair otherwise like i want i want this to be a segment that happens in the show for a while now the race to world first for guild's name a bit like immortalist we can't just finish it up in the first week be embarrassing all the other girls would give up and then we wouldn't have the segment anymore so you know what would you do for content you have to actually like cover world of warcraft that oh god i'm swearing so much today i'm so sorry it's in that kind of mood i couldn't get the haircut later and i'm nervous that's why it's it's it's it's it's okay so i'm really sorry people listening to this podcast a for swearing but b for the fact like you talking about my haircut but honestly if you could see me now my hair is it's down to my nipples it's outrageous i look like it was longer at the beginning of quarantine i looked like a california man right now sunday any moment it said be tally back sunday that's what it would be um so like you know but i need to i need to get my raiding legendary up to four like you know rank four i need to get my nice legendary that i've already got which is on rank one uh for dungeons up to four but after that i'm like what else man i need to go into tour gas unless i really feel like it it does no big deal hey you need some help in tour gust mr guildy well tough because i don't feel like it and i don't need no legendaries so i know and i know like the pro players now pro pro pro players right what they're going to do is they're going to have a rank 4 legendary on every gear slot that they can do it on so you know like you could you can have you you can have your legendary on your shoes or you can have it on your ring they're going to have it on both aren't they you see and so that's that's a lot of work right there so that you know they can swap it out to optimize their gear better and max better and that's absolutely fair enough it's another way that good players ruin it for everyone else right now we all have to do it but like you know that's a lot of work but essentially for most of us we're going to get the legendary or two that we want and we're going to kind of be done with tour gas aren't we really and this is a little bit yeah and again but but i like it so i don't want to be done i'm going to want to go back i want to want to engage in endless halls exactly so let's let's keep modifying and tweaking and improving and i don't know i just find it's so interesting i can't help but think of all the cool ways that they could just iterate to helen back just keep going and treat this like uh its own mini game as a service within world of warcraft tell me more tell me more amazing ideas that you have well it's just i mean this is the entire conversation we had like i i know a lot of it was focused on improving the run time but all of the things i think we kind of discussed today are are avenues and angles and and portions of tour guests that they could tweak and improve upon they could keep rolling out new anima powers they could make the existing ones they could they could tweak them maybe make them a little more powerful if db you know this is getting away from the conversation of like the layers themselves becoming trivial as we gear up um this is now i'm kind of into how do we make endless hall something i really want to just throw myself into over and over again i want to i want to embrace death in tour gas and and not feel like it was a a bit of a methodical slog um but you know the the the animal powers are are a big part of it um the the thought of these these more permanent outside of tour gas unlocks that augment tor gas like before i even step in the door that's another thing that feels a little disconnected right now why am i buying that with stygia in the mall in the maw and not something that i'm unlocking through tour guest itself yeah um that also just strikes struck me as a little odd yeah that i was like wait i'm not getting better at tour gas by running tour guests that seems weird it's give you more reasons to run the more isn't it right which we really need um but i i i know why but i agree with you that yeah it does i stand by my comments last week though that i i actually kind of think they gamified them all in a really good way because like the first you know two weeks especially because i was a little behind i was like oh my god this is a this is a pain he has to get around this but you know i unlocked like my first portal it's like oh yeah sweet the not nearly as much of a pain in the butt but now i'm starting to hit it again and i'm like hey when am i getting that next portal to another corner of this zone i i really like them all i'm really sorry and you can judge me as much as you like i love them all i think it's really good i really i don't go there as much as players who feel the need to grind it uh for their because i ain't careful i'll get i'll get this the the gem slots it's fine whatever um but also i'm not gonna have my bis optimal gear as quickly as say like a mythic raider right so they need those gear slots they can put it on their best gear or even their leveling gear and stuff like that but i don't i don't need those for now i'm fine i'll get there when i get there and so i really enjoy going into the more and and having fun and doing playing it i suspect how it's supposed to be played you know and like mid max is always going to go above and beyond how something is supposed to be played and that's how they choose to play the game but it's probably going to be less fun to play as a result but you get your fun from the fact that you're maxing right so you just find your fun in different ways but yeah obviously i'm going to enjoy the actual content more than someone who who feels that they have to kind of grind it and and do all that and that's completely understandable but i'm really enjoying it it's when i read comments like um i read something someone tweeted uh like you know blizzard what they've done by not letting you mount in the more and then allowing you to unlock portals and stuff like that they've invented a problem so that they could solve it and i was like yeah that's what a video game is a game yeah is an invented problem i mean that's literally what a video you've just described a video game uh i didn't have to think of a world where an l block fits into openings but tetris came and invented that problem so i can solve it like you've just oh my god there's a you you've put a hole you've put a hole in the world just so you can make me jump over it we are being somewhat reductive there is a balancing act to all of that like there's a point where you might go too far with forced uh inconveniences to gamify systems that have unlocked but yeah i'm with you a straight up i think the mod gets a bum rap i've seen a lot of negativity thrown at the maw from every corner to the inconvenience and not being able to mount to just how it looks and everyone's like gary you didn't like the the the mechagon island you don't like your your your generic dirt islands in in uh patches and i'm just like yeah but the mod like it's supposed to look like hell it's hell i kind of dig it like i get what they're going for and i think they nailed it garrett that's a beautiful point which i thoroughly agree with and i know that you've got to go we've got a hard finish on this episode right but i have to say something this is very important something that you just said inspired me and you're gonna have to go with me on this one okay if we on this show wow killer my show on which you are the permanent guest if on welcome we ever have a merch store okay please please please can we sell wow killer bum wraps what is a bum rap i was going to ask you the same thing because you said moore gets a bum rap and i was like i'd like a bum rap sounds awesome like my bum needs wrapping sometimes you know sometimes you just you just want your bum to be cozy and you're like i'd like a nice warm bum wrap right now maybe one you can put in the microwave for a couple of seconds just we'll sell fanny packs again it's going to mean something very different in the uk to the us what is what is the thing that what the funny is for jj in the uk so when americans talk about fanny packs and fanny pads and stuff so what are you doing when americans like oh i bumped my fanny you're like alright well so anyways to try and bring this house it's it's very warm at the moment oh good just last night we're talking about the warcraft with you fantastic um so to bring it home um everything we talked about today what's the one thing you hope that they what's one thing you hope to see like what do you hope that the team tweaks i would like endless corridors to retain the uh difficulty and the methodicalness that i'm enjoying in tallghast right now i want to become everything that you want it to be in terms of like uh fast and quick and murder corridors but i'd like to see the endless cor the endless corridors at some point kind of get to a difficulty if you get high enough that it just kicks your ass and you need to be very very careful again you know i i would i would like to just yeah straight up murder you you you will just hit a point in endless halls where you just can't go any further and i'd like to see some cool gear like bum wraps i would too i would too uh and i'm yeah to me i'm the the number one thing i would love to see is just more frequent ability updates and new abilities being added that's kind of the the number one thing i'm kind of waiting to see yeah yeah so anyways um yeah i think that brings us to the end of this tour gas talk folks if you want to write in be a part of our show when we do our mailbag segments or sometimes we even sneak email into an episode if it's uh talking about the topic that we have chosen for the day write in it's wow killercast gmail.com um if you want to subscribe to the podcast this is available in audio only form everywhere that you get your podcasts uh head on over to wowkiller.net uh because we have all of the subs where to subscribe how to subscribe information over there uh talias and folks are somehow unaware that all of the content that you're making where can people find your other wow content um you can check us out on uh youtube italianavatel do games uh you can find us on twitch here if you're watching it right now um which is taliesin and evertell at twitch and you can find us on twitter as well tell us never tell it's easy honestly just search our names it's fine what about you garrett i'm garrett art on twitter and this podcast and every single other one that i produce can be found at amove.tv that's amove tv go checking out we hope you enjoyed this episode of wow killer we will most likely be back next week we'll see uh what happens today with an absolute technical hell hole but uh sorted now garrett no problems at all i've got it all on one button now i just press it and wow color is go simple as that wonderful i can't wait next week we capped our wow killer soul ash for the week sounds great uh so until then everybody good luck have fun and uh good luck and tour guest

Channel: WoW Killer

Views: 2,937

Keywords: world of warcraft, wow, taliesin, garrett, amove.tv, shadowlands, torghast, anima, priest, warrior, roguelike

Id: ZzTpTzxhYfQ

Length: 70min 58sec (4258 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 16 2020