World Over - 2019-10-10 - Full Episode with Raymond Arroyo

the controversial Amazon Synod got underway at the Vatican this week as they rushed to clarify another people interview with an Italian journalist the papal posse Robert Royal and father Gerald Murray are here with complete analysis from the Synod in Rome and what was it like growing up the child of a baseball legend and civil rights icon Sharon Robinson is here to talk about her dad Jackie coming of age during the civil rights movement and her new memoir child of the dream and we'll take you inside the private world of a soon-to-be st. John Henry Newman the world over begins right now [Music] now from Washington DC Raymond Arroyo a warm welcome to all of you joining us in the United States and the world over a great show for you tonight Robert Royal father Gerald Murray Sharon Robinson and members of the london oratory Scola contour and Boys Choir are all straight ahead if you'd like to comment on tonight's show send me a tweet I'm at Raymond Arroyo lots to cover let's get right through to it the controversial Synod on the Amazon finally got underway in Rome this week so far it seems to be living up to the hype that has dogged it since the release of the working document this past summer as it considers ordaining married men women's roles in ministry and much more but overshadowing it all this week were comments made by Pope Francis purportedly during an interview with Italian journalist Eugenio Scott a thottie an avowed atheist nonagenarian who never records or takes notes of his interviews miles scarf Ari claimed that the Pope denied Church teaching on the divinity of Jesus Christ the Vatican almost immediately rushed out with a clarification and a denial joining me with analysis of this and much more is the papal posse editor-in-chief of the Catholic thing dot org Robert royal and canon lawyer and priest of the Archdiocese of New York father Gerald Murray both joining us from Rome gentlemen thank you for being here now let's get straight to what Italian journalist Eugenio Scott a thottie claimed in his frankly ridiculous column in a la repubblica this week he wrote quote those who have had the chance as I have had many times the good fortune to meet him the Pope and speak with him with the greatest cultural confidence know that Pope Francis conceives the Christ as Jesus of Nazareth man not God incarnate once incarnated Jesus ceases to be a god and becomes man until his death on the cross in quote scarf Ari then writes that the Pope cited two moments from the Gospels where Jesus asks God the Father to take this cup from me and when he cries out why have you forsaken me as quote the proven proof that Jesus of Nazareth once he became a man though a man of exceptional virtues was not at all a god end quote following the publication of the interview the Vatican issued a statement saying as already stated on other occasions the words used or the words that dr. Eugenio Scott fadi attributes in quotation marks to the Holy Father during talks with him cannot be considered as a faithful account of what was actually said but rather represent a personal and free interpretation of he listened as appears completely evident from what's written today regarding the divinity of Jesus Christ on other papal spokesman said during a presser today that the Pope never said this chance this is not the first star fadi interview which has resulted in controversy why is the Vatican and the Pope I suppose so reluctant to just shut this guy down entirely well Raymond yeah I probably our viewers don't know this but scoffing he occupies an unusual situation in Italian journalism he's sort of the grand old man of the the more secular atheist Freemason side of an Italian journalism and so I think the Pope has tried to have this line out to this other element in Italy now what in my judgment it has not been all that prudent to do this as the the two or three you know mistaken characterizations have shown this is the sixth interview and that or the sixth column that scarf Adi has written about the Pope that has resulted in some kind of controversy okay so we've had a half dozen of these these mischaracterizations come on and I don't know why he keeps going back to him when skål skål finally creates so many problems for the Pope I often like to point out to people that in Italian Scott Turow is very similar to scoff Felice kaltura means somebody who's wily and cunning and I think that scoff it he tries to use opportunities like this week when lots of people are around for the Synod to push a line that makes people think that something is happening in the church that's not really happening I wouldn't deny that in these conversations the problem may have led him into temptation by saying ambiguous things or things that were not entirely clear but I think a lot is being made out of this by people who would this to perhaps be partly true and I think most of us who know the situation here in Italy are not convinced father Jerry I had a bishop this week tell me that the Pope grants these interviews because he likes to mix things up he likes to to to stir things up your reaction well you know the Pope has granted more interviews than any previous Pope so that's certainly the case he enjoys this forum but scale-free is an unreliable reporter and I wish the Pope would take that into account and spend more time with other reporters I personally can't believe that the Pope would ever say anything like that I don't think it's true I think Scialfa is a ex-catholic atheist so I think he's trying to justify his own position in life I hope I'm wrong about that I hope this is all innocent but for me it sounds like just pleading a special case to try and say in the end I'm the wise one because I figured out something and I'm he's going to tribute that to the Pope it's false it's not the case if you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or you don't but don't try to claim that somehow the Pope is endorsing that view gentlemen the kickoff for the Amazon Synod was a very strange tree planting ceremony on the feast day of Saint Francis in the Vatican gardens behind you now a focal point of the ceremony were indigenous Amazonians bowing down including a Franciscan before a wooden pregnant woman the statue of a pregnant woman in fact a pair of them now some said this is the Virgin Mary Our Lady of the Amazon visiting Saint Elizabeth during one of the press conferences on Monday papal biographer Austin ivory asked a bishop who works in the region about the statue listen on Saturday during the celebration of Saint Francis the Vatican some American media interpreted the figure of the pregnant woman as a pagan symbol of fertility so how do you interpret this image that was a very strong image the woman the math onion woman so how is she is this indigenous figure considered and what is the connection with a synod I did not perceive this identification I had seen this image on previous occasion probably those who used this symbol demonstrated we should to refer to fertility to women to life I don't think we need to create any connections with the Virgin Mary or with a pagan element gentlemen what do you make of this image of this fertility God and what's the message here Robert royal yeah I was here when that happened and I think that at that very moment something happened that I is starting to characterize this Synod in a strange way then something unique something that we've never seen before on the vatican grounds took place and no one knows what it was and no one is able to interpret it no one seems to want to take responsibility for how it was organized to her who permitted it and why the Pope was there and what it meant for him to be a witness as this thing was going on right so it's it's a tremendous confusion and especially after many people before the Synod even started we're pointing out that the dangers of this kind of syncretism bringing in native elements that don't really accord well with Catholicism was going to be confusing and lead us down strange paths and I think that the fact that no one can explain this is an additional problem besides the fact that that's something that is not Christianity was celebrated on the grounds of the Vatican itself father Jerry Raymond you know that go ahead father you know the ceremony was accurately described as a pagan religious ceremony and that statue is was as the goddess false god is Pachamama who is like a creation guy this is horrendous I have to say no matter what the intention of those who invited those people there it's quite clear that that was a pagan ritual ceremony with religious meaning to them this should not be ever occur in a Catholic institution certainly not in the Holy See I regret that the Pope tolerated it and I think the message has to be clear paganism is not here in the earth to teach Catholicism's the other way around Catholicism is meant to overthrow pagan Falls and oceans and certainly having a so-called inaugural religious ceremony blessing the Synod with pagan fertility good there was another statue of a male goddess which was horrendous so I put it I reject this completely I think most Catholics do I think the Pope in his kindness sat there and tolerated it but really whoever organized that imposed on the Holy See a very intolerable thing well it was a it was a group of Franciscans committed to environmental reform and and a thing I have to point out at the conclusion of this long ceremony and they had tree planting and people bowing to the idols and the whole thing the Pope cast aside his prepared remarks he said in our Father and he left I read that as sort of a subtle rejection of what he had just sat through good I think that's an accurate way to look at it yeah it may be but at the same time he'd been sitting in the Sun for an hour at that point and it looks like he was very very tired I don't think he wanted to stick around too much long for maybe for various reasons so he'll wait even this we cannot read with any great degree of clarity and the the one of the problems with this papacy is the way that ambiguity and a lack of clarity has led to two people having very grave doubts and then now if I have a generalized mistrust when a situation like this arises yeah okay we've got lots to get to it the formal beginning of this Senate Pope Francis decried what he called racist language and he said he was saddened by a joke about men who brought the offerings of the to the altar with feathers on their head these were the Amazonian indigenous peoples and he said what is the difference between this headdress and the trick or no the Beretta that officials of the de Castries in Rome where father Jerry URI action well you know the Pope has expressed his displeasure with priests who wear what's called the sat or no which is the round Roman hat meant to be worn outdoors you know I think what did people are I don't know what those specific criticisms were perhaps they shouldn't have been made but to make a comparison between a Beretta and a Native American or Indian headdress from South America okay fine we should not never mock people I agree with that but you know the Beretta was actually worn during mass and the extraordinaire is worn during the extraordinary form it is a you know a headgear that has religious significance it's similar in religious significance to the zucchetto and the mitre I mean covering your head in the presence of God is an ancient tradition in Judaism and was carried forth into Christianity so it has an importance whereas headdress from what I've read using feathers of birds is sort of has some kind of pagan notion of unity with the heavenly spirits so there is a difference per se who knows what was intended by the one who wore those feathered headdress Bob they also said the Synod participants they announced her during the Senate that the Synod participants could dispense with the habits and you know their Kasich's and wear black suits to the Synod one bishop had no collar at all I saw today what's going on with this casual Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Senate I'm gonna pass this one to the cleric because we were talking about this earlier and since he has a dog in this fight I'll answer that question well let's just say I wish I was in charge of protocol at the Synod because perfectly happy with Cardinals were in Cardinals Kasich's and bishops wearing Bishop Kasich's you know the cassock as a symbol has great power throughout Christianity because it is a form of dress which distinguishes the priests from everyone else and when you come together in a synod this isn't an ordinary meeting this is an attempt guided by the Holy Spirit and the doctrine the tradition observes to understand how we out you know make an outreach to the people in the present I have to say whenever I wear my cassock in the church people come up to me from time to time and say father thank you for wearing them when we see Dominicans and Franciscans and habits in the streets we were inspired because this garment sets you off as a servant as an apostle as a missionary so I think it was a mistake to do this because you know this is not a business meeting to discuss you know finances for how we're going to pay for the boiler repairs I mean this is trying to talk about God's will in the church and how we implement okay I want to move on to some of the issues that they are wrestling with this weekend and for the next two the chairman of the Senate on the Amazon Cardinal Holness wasted no time letting everyone know that this meeting is a search for quote new paths for the future then he said quote during the consultation stages local communities missionaries and indigenous persons faced with the urgent need experienced by most of the Catholic communities in Amazonia requested that the path be opened for the ordination of married men resident in their communities albeit confirming the great importance of the charisma of celibacy in the church Bob what's the word on the ground about this proposal to essentially push a married priesthood is this a possibility I think I think it's quite definitely a possibility at least in terms of discussion at the end of the day the Holy Father when he issues if he decides to issue an apostolic exhortation after the Synod will well do what he wants to do with it but look a lot of things are being jammed together here we've got the ecological side of this and they're at their economics that are entering into it and then there are these the indigenous people are talked about a great deal it's been been said over and over again by people with knowledge about Brazil and Peru the two thirds of the indigenous populations in the in the Amazonia Ruiz region first of all live in Peru and most of them live in cities something like 80 percent of the people we're talking about live in cities so the image that's being conveyed of sort of these simple tribes been close to the earth with their tradition their pagan traditions that isn't a large number of people who are hurting in the Amazon and in fact several people have stepped forward and challenged some of the speakers to say look these people especially women leave their tribes and they go to cities where of course all the temptations and all the problems that there always exist in an urban environment get exacerbated because these are not the wealthiest cities in the world either so in a way they're they're pointing toward a problem or gaining men supposedly out in the rainforest in the Amazon when in fact the major part of the problem is in places where you could deal somewhat with the kind of Paris situations for the large majority of people who are so called indigenous father jerry brazilian bishop o'linn crowler who was part of the committee that developed this working document had this to say about priestly celibacy at a press conference on wednesday he said we are not against celibacy the question is how to enable access to sacraments at the moment we've placed celibacy above sacraments that's not the gospel he went on to say that the native people don't understand a priest without a wife a priest that's not married father Jerry are these credible arguments for dispensing with a thousand-year-old discipline I don't think so Raymond I mean Jesus Christ wasn't married can they understand Jesus of course they can when the Franciscans and the Jesuits and the other missionaries went into South America and they had no wives I think that was striking to these native people of South America that here were a group of men dedicated to something that was completely not in their own self-interest in the sense bringing their wife and children here to take land no they were there to bring the Gospel message to live in poverty and to teach people that there's something more in life than what we see and that pagan notions are mistaken God is not a God of natural forces of the earth or the wind of the sky or the the Sun God is an incarnate man man made God God made man rather who came into the world to redeem us precisely from these pagan errors which plunge people into ignorance immorality and unbelief you know the practice of infanticide among Native America Indian Americans down in Latin America something that has not really been focused in on the Synod it's a problem because of course paganism doesn't teach Christian solidarity so when Bishop crowler says you can't be credible if you don't have a wife I don't believe that at all and by the way if you want Holy Communion for people who are living in the jungle okay why we can ordain married men deacons and they can distribute Holy Communion that's consecrated by a priest but the priesthood is not just an alternate form of a local tribal custom which it seems to be the idea here we're gonna retain two men with our training and seminary little knowledge and their job is to celebrate Mass no no no Christianity has spread throughout the world by per celibate priest for reason because that's the life that Jesus himself embraced it's the life that we try to embrace as best we can Cardinal we look at a point because I was in a room when he said that yeah let me add a point because I was in the room when he said that and the first thing that came to my mind when he said that the indigenous peoples don't understand celibacy is what they don't understand the Incarnation either all right and they don't even understand the Trinity neither so to me this is a you know it's a fishy argument why are we focusing on that when there's everything that we believe is Christians has to be taught to them and so why is celibacy something that that supposedly is so central to being able to preach the gospel that because they don't understand it we can't practice it no we I mean we have to turn back to the kinds of practices where we know we have to bring the whole truth the whole Kathak truth to people who are suffering for lack of it and I think that that is should be the focus not some some cockamamie idea that well they don't understand this therefore we can't preach it Cardinal homeless also indicated gentlemen that the Synod won't stop with proposals to ordain men he said and this is a quote faced with a great number of women who nowadays leave communities in Amazonia there is a request that this service be acknowledged and there be an attempt to consolidate it with a suitable ministry for the women who live in these communities now whom is did not specify what that suitable ministry might be father what are you all seeing there it appears there a lot of outside groups NGO type organizations who are trying to put a fine point on what he means mainly the ordination of women I've seen some ladies with collars and things in the churches of Rome on the edges well I mean we had an on get up and say that she hears confessions without giving absolution right I'll play that no - speakers at the press brief and the other day ok God we also have Ishaq rouler telling Edward Penton of the National Catholic Register that he's in favor of the ordination of women as deacons and his priests crowler is the one who helped write the document now let's face the facts here there is an attempt to bring back to the public discussion an agenda that was destroyed by the clear teaching of the church under John Paul the second and Benedict which is that Jesus's intention for deigning only men is not clear and the church has no it's absolutely clear the first priests were deigned at the Last Supper they were all men they are meant to be the living icon of Christ as priests Christ is a man the Incarnation in the male speech now love the species is not an accident or an incidental detail it is essential to what the priest is the priest is a father the priest is the one who brings spiritual life to his children the greatest saint in the church is the holy virgin mary she is a mother it's a different role women are not called to the priesthood the church has always taught that for these bishops to bring this back is simply a revolutionary Act which is to do the great discredit of the whole effort here because this effort is about bringing the gospel to the Amazon and unfortunately bits are trying to change the gospel that is absolutely what's going on here when a journalist asked a bishop crawler who who father just mentioned a moment ago about this push to ordain women he said why are women not able to be ordained why ask directly whether he supported the ordination of women as priests he responded yes logically Bob what's the reaction to people covering and attending the Synod when they hear those kind of sentiments well obviously people who agree with him are very happy that he's saying this and an awful lot of other people are very puzzled again with this argument that the way that this argument is being made is they're walking around and everybody who supports that position seems to have the same statistics that 80% of the indigenous communities in the Amazon are being led by women I don't know how they possibly could know this because the other thing they keep saying is that there are 20,000 communities 6,000 without a priest you know in the United States where we actually have good means to conduct surveys if you try to do a survey of all the storefront churches and the little you know fugitive religious groups there it would be very difficult to do I don't know how they know in the jungle that there's this large number of people and that eighty percent of these groups are being run by women and also the question has been raised are they being run because the men don't think that that particular activity is something that a man should be doing because they have more important things that to earn a living or whatever it is the form of this argument - I think is special pleading that crowd Lurie is a very very articulate man he spent 30 years speaks beautiful Portuguese he's a very articulate man he has strong opinions but I think that the way that he's making these arguments just doesn't fly okay according to a nun and father referenced her before sister Alba Teresa she lives in Colombia now she claims women are already doing some of the work of priests here she is at the press conference and she's saying here we accompany the indigenous people and when priests cannot be present we perform baptisms if someone wants to get married we are present and we witness to the love of the couple we've often had to listen to confessions but we have not given absolution father Jerry is this listen as regards baptism in marriage yes because there are provisions in canon law when the priest is not able to come into a community that baptisms can be performed by laypeople and religious also and the same with marriages can be witnessed now the local bishop should be made aware of the situation to give his permission but those two are permissible now hearing confessions meaning telling people tell me your sins that is wrong if somebody wants to get spiritual guidance and discusses their problems in life etc that's fine you can do that lay people can be spiritual director so can nuns and religious men but to give the impression that I'm hearing your confession and somehow you know I'm going to grant you the pardon of God through the church that's wrong that should never happen it's misleading for her to use that word so yeah I was upset when I heard that I hope it's not true because it's misleading people to think that non priests can hear confessions now gentlemen while we were talking about the Synod taking place it's being reported that Pope Francis has begun to eliminate restrictions on the activities of men who have been removed from the priestly state and allowed to marry now this Noori script now states quote the dispensed cleric will be able to exercise those ecclesiastical offices that are not that do not require sacred order with the permission of a competent bishop so previously Alea sized priests had to leave the area they once served and move where people did not know them as a priest and they had other restrictions placed on them Bob is this the Pope's answer to the priest shortage worldwide what's being allowed here well I'll let father talk about the technicalities of what the Pope has proposed but my sense is that we're at a moment you see it in the Synod you see in some of the other things his recent reception father father James Martin I think that this is a moment when at least some people in the Vatican have decided that as we say in baseball they're really in a brand you know they're bringing a whole bunch of different things and that because because there are so many and they are so radical it may very very well be possible to advance a number of things that otherwise if you did them singly over a long period of time people would would object to and would raise I mean they would be able to raise some sort of opposition one of the striking things about this Synod as opposed to the previous Senate's and we've you know we've covered these things in the past is there is virtually no one inside the the Synod Hall who thinks differently than what we've seen in that instrumentum lavoris the the general line that they're taking about vertebral body rolls for women you know maybe relaxed ideas of what priests who it is so this thing isn't much of a debate I think that is gonna go on I think this has been all kind of baked in at the beginning and some of these these external things now are being added because there there's just this push at this moment in my view father Jerry I want your reaction to this and you can you can't I you know what to what Bob was just saying in an interview this week Cardinal Robert Sarah who is participating in the Synod in his capacity as prefect for the Congregation of divine worship responded to these proposals to ordain married men and the creation of women's ministries he said these points touched the structure of the universal church taking advantage to introduced ideological plans would be an unworthy manipulation a dishonest deception an insult to God who guides his church and entrust to it his plans of salvation what is the average Catholics supposed to make of this and as Bob said the kind of radical hastening that we're seeing well this is something that really is part of the underlying crisis here which is that the priesthood is a contradiction of secularists notions of human happiness for the secularists not being able to have sexual experience in life having to live under the commands of someone else embracing poverty embracing you know missionary spirit this is all goes against self-expression and self-will and the glory of the church is that young men go into the seminary without preconditions and say I will obey my bishop I will go where I will sin I will leave aside wife and family in order to serve the spiritual needs of the church and that is a big contradiction to this whole notion that you know life is essentially about pleasure power and self-determination so to give into that kind of spirit by having an ordained married clergy in the Western Church I think would be a disaster and I think it's very clear that as we've been discussing you know the problem in the Amazon is not that there aren't married clergy the problem the problem in the Amazon is that there hasn't been sufficient evangelization through all the parts of the church laypeople religious and priest that's what we should focus in on but as you know if you read the press you know there are bishops in Germany who are waiting for this you know change in the Amazon to say well wait a minute you know priests in the Amazon have you heard about my diocese we need some more priests so I think the push here is basically undo celibacy as a mandatory rule make the priests into more of a functional kind of experience and then quite frankly this notion of giving up wife and children for the kingdom of God you know putting that in the background not talking about that that's not the way you're gonna save a sext saturated Society we people need to know there is more in life than simply your own self-interest in the interests of Christ and the church is what you come forward okay I've got about four minutes left Bob Cardinal Mueller suggested this week that this is basically this Amazon Synod a European progressive project in Amazonian garb those are my words not his is that what you're seeing on the ground and I need your reaction to this the former theologian of the US bishops conference father Thomas wine and II wrote this week in the Catholic thing that the church is heading toward what he calls an internal papal sysm whereby pope francis effectively leads two opposing factions one loyal to the papacy yet critical of the pontificate and the other support of him due to his tolerance of ambiguous teaching and pastoral practice he said this there's his father why Nandi pray in fear and trembling that Jesus might deliver us from this trial the Lord may want us to endure it because only perhaps then may the church be freed from all the sin and corruption that now lies within her and be made holy and pure what does he mean there by an internal papal sysm yeah I think what he means and I encourage people to read that article because it really is a blockbuster it came out earlier this week at the Catholic thinking you can see it on our website the Catholic thing dot org he says that this has never happened in the history of the church before we've had corrupt Pope's you know we've had bad Pope's we've had Pope's that that made enormous mistakes but in this particular case it it could happen that some of the things that are coming down the line would make the make a Aces Matic Church here in the Vatican itself that the Pope would be actually the Pope of a church that had departed from the truths of the faith that had been held for 2,000 years now it's a bold thought of course not I haven't seen anyone else make it but father wine Andy is an extremely accomplished an honored theologian he's a member of the International theological Commission here in Rome he was the head of the doctoring committee for the US bishops through many years so when a guy like that comes forth with this argument I think it ought to be paid we ought to pay attention go back to your first point about this the Cardinal Mueller is saying that this is a European cinema it's strange that most of the participants are from Latin America but as I was saying before there's no but they were selected I think largely to reflect one point of view and insofar as we can tell there have only been three participants in the Senate to date who have expressed any doubts whatever about the idea of ordaining vidi pure bottie married men all right it's Cardinal sera it's Cardinal Willett - runs the the Congregation for bishops and oddly an African Bishop are in our African Cardinal Cardinal Turkson who for whatever reason seems to think that he maybe ought to draw a line in the sand about this particular issue so far as we know in a in a meeting with I don't know 200 people or so there are three who might raise any voice against the more radical proposals and that's never happened before and the family Senate as you know there were there was strong opposition to the direction it was taking we've before the second family Senate occurred twelve Cardinals wrote privately to the Holy Father saying that they thought that the Synod was being rigged in the youth Synod there was a large contingent of Africans who said we will not countenance any document coming out of this it has three letters LGBT in there this time there's no there's no loyal opposition it seems to be all people of one particular political orientation so I think what your euler means is that they all they though they are not Europeans they are oriented toward those European radical views before I run out of time I literally have a minute and a half Cardinal John Henry Newman will be raised to the altar he's going to be canonized on Sunday October 13th obviously born in London in 1801 he he founded the Oxford movement with which emphasized the Catholic roots of Anglicanism and that caused a lot of clashes between he and the Church of England he eventually left that church joined the Catholic Church was ordained a Catholic priest in 1846 why is he being made a saint at this moment do you think some have suggested that people are using this canonization almost as a distraction from what's happening in the Amazon Senate father Jerry all right yeah I don't believe that Raymond it's not a distraction this is an event of divine providence the miracle was approved it's a wonderful miracle John Henry Newman is such an illuminating figure for our time because he joined the Catholic Church from Anglicanism because he believed firmly and totally that the Catholic Church is the one true church he believed for a long time in his life that Anglicanism was a Via Media was the way between Protestantism and Catholicism he came to understand that that view was wrong Catholicism is the one true church he wanted to serve Christ in the church the Christ founded and he did so with extraordinary intelligence he was a scholar of the highest degree he was a man of great pastoral sense he was a man of total dedication to fighting modern unbelief if you look at Newman's writings it's an attempt to understand the act of belief and how that isn't to be experienced in an unbelieving age bob is written about newman bob has talked about him in his books newman is a seminal figure in the modern life of the church because his answer is what Christ and the Apostles taught is as believable today as it was that hmm Robert what's the message for you in the Newman analysis I all say - yeah I also think that there of course are people who are trying to exploit him for various other purposes for example he has a very rich and interesting teaching about conscience and conscience is something that's very much misunderstood in the modern world people think that you know if my conscience tells me I can do something it's okay Newman in a extremely striking phrase that the conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ the conscience isn't me it is it is the the deepest part of me responding to Christ himself so we're gonna hear some people saying oh you know Newman promoted the idea of conscience and he was he was his view of the papacy was a little bit qualified but Newman properly read comes over at a time when it was not all that advantageous to become a Catholic in the England of his day and I think is probably one of the greatest Catholic writers in the English language not probably I don't even know that there's anyone close to okay we're gonna have to leave it there gentlemen I thank you both for your analysis Robert we will check back with you next week and get the latest father Jerry enjoy the lemoncello we'll talk to you all soon thank you in 2010 I traveled to London to shoot some interviews before the beatification of Cardinal John Henry Newman and I spent some time in Birmingham England where Newman lived we visited his rooms in the library containing his original handwritten manuscripts watch now this is the Provost of the oratory in Birmingham father Richard Duffield and he took us on a tour of cardinal isms and rooms these rooms have not been touched since he died in 1890 take a look 1990 and it's unchanged since Thursdays we've dusted a bit well I hope so but otherwise it's as he knew it everything in the same place the desk the chairs all as he knew it the lamp on his desk the two lamps on his desk one of them and when a longer straw which was given to him by the Prime Minister mr. Gladstone because he used to write letters about matters of church and state instance and and you you thought it was this one when I was a novice and did this guided tour almost every day I always told oh but it was that one because that's what I was told by one of the older fathers but now I've noticed that the novices say it was this one we've not found any proof we'll have to have a look and see okay so the room is unchanged and the books as he would have known them in fact on this shelf you have the uniform edition of his complete works so you can get a sense of just how much he wrote hmm and that doesn't include the one thousand seventeen thousand seven hundred and seventy seven letters which were published of course after his death and you have all of those here that all here I'll show you in a moment in the archive where they're all kept in big boxes now tell us about his pray do over here where he prayed over in that corner is his little pre do with his crucifix and his rosaries we're going to give one of the roses which has a medal of Saint Benedict on the end to the Holy Father as a gift when he comes and the crucifix is actually going to go and hang in the shrine because I think it would be good to have the same crucifix that Newman used to be the crucifix of the altar and so when the pilgrims come they're praying before the same crucifix that Newman prayed before at his pre DIA every night and that all bust of Saint Philip a little time at a time his prayer to you'll notice all their above the above the prayer desk then we'll go around behind because some auditoriums only have one room usually and they sleep there too when Newman was made a cardinal in those days a carmen was supposed to reside in rome unless he was a diocesan Bishop which Newman wasn't of course and Pope Pius the ninth said well so long as you live in the state becoming a cardinal you can stay in Birmingham but you must have your own chapel with its own little dome a Cardinals private chapel must be set up for you so well Newman was in Rome receiving the Cardinals hat the fathers gave him the room next door as a bedroom and built a partition and made a chapel so the chapel is on the other side with a bedroom anspach yes the bed was once the other side of this partition and then they built this wonderful chapel for the Cardinal but its bow the key no that's the state becoming a cardinal the pictures in Francis de Salle because he was not a touring before he became the bishop of Geneva and Newman chose his motto as a cardinal korako loquitur which came from the works of st. Francis all from the treaties and the love of God and so Newman had great devotion to him what are all of these pictures on the on the wall here next to the altar he kept pictures of his friends by the also all he had to do was turn his head while he was saying Mass and face the the pictures of his friends he could make a memento of them while he was saying Mass and other treasures in here I've left on the altar this chalice which Newman always used and that's the chalice were offering to the Holy Father to use at the reactive occasion Mass and that's wonderful that he's going to use that and also you're leaning on the pre Dia which was the Cardinals and the Holy Father is going to need at that we hope when he comes to pray in the trap or that we saw downstairs and the chair with the coat of arms I hope that heard if I will sit in that so we're now going into the Cardinals library ah so father when you say Newman's library this was his personal library yes our community library is somewhere else 95% of the books in this room belong to Newman and the most important ones are the ones all along the bottom row there's enormous volumes there all the Fathers of the Church Augustine Gregory Athanasius origin all those books he used to write his development of Christian doctrine when he wrote that book he began the book as an Anglican at the end of it as a Catholic he wrote his way into the church show us this desk over here which has such meaning this desk is the desk at which he wrote his great spiritual autobiography the apologia pro Vita sua he wrote it in 1864 Charles Kingsley who was the professor of history at Cambridge and also at the water babies and a few other books that serve people working quite so here they're quite popular in their time he wrote a review of a history of England by James Antony frood and he said in the review in fact I can read you what he said because we have the actual review he original McMillan's magnanimous magazine and if I can find the place I can show you so again of the virtue of truth truth for its own sake had never been a virtue with the Roman clergy father Newman informs us that it need not and on the whole ought not to be that cunning is the weapon which heaven has given to the Saints by with to withstand the brute male force of the wicked world now of course if it had just been attack on Newman himself who might have ignored it but it was an attack on the clergy in the whole church so he felt he had to defend himself and he realized that the only way to defend himself was to write the history of his religious opinions the apologia pro Vita Sewer apology for his life but it's subtitle the history of my religious opinions because Kingsley had said really were a secret Catholic why us to an Anglican and kind of spy in the camp and even has disproved that and say well no I taught and believed what I did for good reasons but gradually I became more aware of the truths I was on the journey and and I always did followed the kinda light of truth and and he wrote this in installments yes while his publisher was very keen like publishers always are to keep the controversy going because that sells papers so rather than producing one big book all at once which perhaps nobody much would have bought the publisher said let's publish it in serial form like Charles Dickens as bobbles and published and off the same way and so uhm between February and May 1864 Newman stood at this desk and wrote the apologia probe you to sewer and he was writing for some time 16 17 18 hours a day because he had to meet a printers deadline every week and in his diary Newman says sometimes I wept especially in the early chapters when I was recalling memories of my old friends of so long ago and elsewhere he wrote my fingers of walk 20 miles this day in writing a belated Pahlavi to saw she's the daughter of one of the greatest baseball players of all time but that's only part of her story her father Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball in 1947 when he played for the Brooklyn Dodgers after an illustrious career on the field he worked tirelessly for civil rights when he retired from baseball in 1956 well Sharon Robinson turned 13 in 1963 a crucial year for the civil rights movement and it's the setting of her new book child of the dream a memoir of 1963 I spoke with Sharon Robinson earlier about her famous dad and his role in the civil rights struggle take a look Sharon Robinson thank you so much for being here now not only are you the daughter of baseball legend and Civil Rights icon Jackie Robinson you grew up in the thick of the civil rights movement of the 1960s now what made you decide to write this memoir it really concerns your coming-of-age in 1963 why write it now I wanted to tell the story of the 1963 Children's Crusade in Birmingham Alabama I wanted to share that story with children I've worked for the past 50 years on helping kids find their voice so I've been trying to find different ways to work with them on finding voice and why voice is important and I just thought the Children's Crusade would be a way to do it and then my editor helped me figure out the format you know and which voice to tell it in he felt that as a memoir it would work best and I as I'm writing it I I had to agree with him yeah you write eloquently in the book about your struggle really with your own identity what it meant to be an african-american growing up in a mostly white suburb beautiful Connecticut suburb well what was that journey like and when did you arrive at a sense of who you truly were I suppose all of us during those teen years you're kind of finding your way and and defining yourself absolutely you know it is a typical journey for me it was it began was beginning like from 12 to 13 where I'm beginning to question everything and try to figure it out the things that helped me was certainly my family and our family talks but also it was jack-and-jill which was a National Organization for children of black children and it was part social and part leadership development so that kind of gave me a place to go with my peers at a time when black and white kids and teenage years split off and they didn't socialize together we had been great friends when we were in elementary school but but now things were changing and I needed to find a group and so that gave me a linkage to the black community yeah you tell the story of listening to records really you know it's a it's an ongoing go ahead I suppose ain't so it's an angle it was an ongoing process I wouldn't say I really I didn't really come of age fully until I got the Howard University because it was a historically black college and everyone there was you know striving and and great discussions and worldview and so that really helped me carry it over the edge know you understanding who I was you're right in the book of listening to records with your friend kandi during these early teen years trying to figure out what it meant to be african-american because you felt disconnected from the black community explain that experience and what were you listening to well Motown it was Motown Records so both town singers performers that that gave us because remember my our radio stations also played white music primarily so this was our little 45 record players was our access to black music and the performers that we were loving and that's when we started having parties and you know actually being able to play this music and dance to it so it was a very important linkage talk about your father for a moment Sharon obviously a baseball legend to the rest of us yes he broke racial barriers in Major League Baseball ended segregation in the league what do you remember most about him in his example was he simply dad or were you aware of his stature and significance early on combination you know he being dad was the most important but I and I was very much aware of his baseball years but I didn't understand them so I for example I knew my dad played bei I was too young you know I was seven and when he retired I was just turned seven mm-hmm so I knew as a baseball player we had a trophy room you know I had all kinds of saw the awards and the plaques and all of that but it wasn't I saw the the Jackie Robinson story for the first time when I was in a day camp but again I was only black kid in this camp and I had no context to that early entry into baseball Wow and the racism he he experienced and it made me at that point say wait a minute what does this mean about the world I'm living in so we you know and I was - back then we didn't talk so much about our personal stuff mm-hmm so I couldn't even ask my parents when I got home what does this mean just had to keep trying to understand it as the years went by walk me through the role of faith in your household I know with dr. King and really the entire civil rights movement it was all predicated on faith it was a a religious as well as a moral you know drive give me a sense of what your father Jackie Robinson imparted to correct well first of all my dad came from a very religious upbringing his mom was deeply religious a praying woman I mean they had five things they had to do in house they had to go to school they had to work they had to take care of their younger siblings and they had and had do their homework and they had to pray every day you know so my dad was a praying man and faith was very much it gave him the strength to carry forth forward on all of his challenges in life from the professional ones to the personal ones and so my what my dad said to me because I attended Sunday school every Sunday but we again we went to the church in our community so I walked to church every Sunday and it didn't matter to me at all that I was in a white church and it didn't even I didn't really even understand that until I got to be the same teenage years when I realized my black friends were going to a black church and then I went to a Baptist Church I was like oh this is different you know but but the church where I grew up I loved it because it was like an inn right in nature you know we would go into the woods and have you know special on sunrise service you know it's that kind of a small community Church the child child of the dream your book so you know but my dad I was just going to say you know Raymond faith was very important in my house and prayer was important but my dad also said it's how you live every day Sharon it's not whether you go to church every Sunday is how you you live and how you treat people and how you give back to others and that was really the the major tended in our house so was faith-based certainly but it was also service you know giving giving to others child of the dream your book club 1963 from your birthday in January through the 16th Street Baptist church bombing in Birmingham in that September now so much happens in that nine month span you wanted to be part of the children's march in Birmingham but your father wouldn't let you go what did he propose instead he came back from the Children's Crusade and having brought money down there and proposed that we as a that we as a family take on this mission and the way he said we were gonna do it is we're gonna start doing a fundraiser at our house and Stanford Connecticut so you know we had a house with a lot of land and it was not that far from New York City so we started having we had our first of many jazz concerts to raise money for dr. King in June of 1963 and it was a family effort so he gave each of us a role you know Dave and I and we all the kids all had to clean their room so would they have a place for the artists to change and we had a you know Dave and I organized the other children to sell hot dogs and sodas and my older brother helped my dad parked cars and greet the guests my mom was like over over all she did she was the directorís and it was the first time we sort of had this kind of a family effort and then in August he also told us we were going to March we were gonna go to the march on Washington and which we did as a the entire family went and that was a really unifying force for us as a family and it did allow us to feel like we were part of the larger civil rights movement in so that was critical to our development Sharon before I let you go and the book is you know we had the second jazz concert in September yeah yeah yeah you're what you write about in the book before I let you go a child of the dream it it captures this really pivotal moment but when I reflect on all this I keep thinking of dr. King's words that he wanted children to be judged by the content of their character not the color of their skin do you worry that that part of the message has has been lost if you will or somehow subvert it yes well you know the what dad taught me is that we were changing laws during the civil rights movement you but you can't legislate against hate so what we had work and the struggle was going to be an ongoing process so yes we are still fighting for equality dignity for all people you know appreciation for differences and just oh this this equal America that that we envisioned many years ago and dr. King talked about we'd certainly opportunity and access is you know it's always the biggest challenge Sharon Robinson thank you so much for sharing your memories the book is child of the dream a memoir of 1963 thank you for coming on thank you for having me before we go the london oratory scola contouring boys choir is one of the most prestigious choirs in the world they'll be singing at the canonization mass for Cardinal John Henry Newman on Sunday October 13th in Rome in July I spoke with two members of this talented choir Marko and Matteo take a look now this is a family affair for you guys I mean your twins what is it like to sing together as a family and to share this music with the world Matteo I'll start with you it's really good it's really an honor to be in the choir and it's such a high standard Choir and it's just amazing Marko what's it like for you yes an honour as well I love all of the thing that we do and is a big commitment there it's worth it [Music] the london oratory scala contouring boys choir can be heard at the canonization mass of John Henry Newman on Sunday October 13th their latest CD sacred treasures of Spain is available now at music outlets everywhere and online well that's all the time we have for now until next week the show continues on Facebook and Twitter like me on Facebook follow me on Twitter I dumped more news there than you can imagine the links are at Raymond Arroyo dot-com be sure to catch us next week until then we'll be scouting the world over for all that is seen and unseen on behalf of the staff and crew of EWTN news thanks for watching I'm Raymond Arroyo from Washington DC I know [Music]

Channel: EWTN

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Length: 58min 51sec (3531 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 10 2019