Please be seated. -Hello, Your Honor.
-Hello. This is the case of<i>
Wilson v. McKnight.</i> Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. [audience] Good day. Ms. Wilson, you admit
to an affair with
a married man, and now, you are furious that he's denying your
one-year-old daughter Shakirah. You say your relationship
with Mr. McKnight may have been a secret,
but your daughter isn't. And once you prove
he's the father, you want him to leave
his wife and go home
with you. -Is that correct?
-Yes, Your Honor. So, Mr. McKnight,
you are in court today
with your wife, and you testify
you fell victim
to temptation, but you weren't
the only man. And you are 100% certain
you are not Shakirah's
biological father. -Is that correct?
-Yes, Your Honor. All right. So, Ms. Wilson,
explain why today's results are so important to you. Because my daughter
is not a secret and she needs to know
her other siblings and, um... I need to know,
like, where we stand. -Oh, so you say
you're confused.
-[Wilson] Yes. -You don't even know where
you stand with Mr. McKnight?
-Yes. Well, Mr. McKnight's standing
with his wife, so... How did you
even start sleeping
with a married man? How did this start? Okay. Well, I was coming in
to cash my check, and I see a wallet
on the floor,
and I pick the wallet up, and I seen his ID
and it said "Ramon McKnight." I said, "I seen him
at the job." So, when I seen him
at the job, I hand him
his wallet. And so, after that,
I seen him numerous times and then, he just
asked me for my number. -Oh, so it started off
as a good Samaritan?
-Yes. -And once that happened,
it started communication.
-[Wilson] Yes. And then, at some point,
he actually said,
"Here's my number." -Yes.
-So, how does it turn into a sexual relationship
from there? What happens? So, he called me
and he was like,
"I wanted to see you." And I said, "Okay."
This was, um, after work. And he was like,
"We're gonna get a room." -[audience exclaims]
-So... Wait. So, he just calls you
and says, "I wanna see you,
and we gonna get a room"? Yeah, we was communicating
before, you know... We was communicating,
getting to know each other, -and then, it lead to
"Let's get a room."
-Let's get a room. -Yes.
-And did he say to you
"I'm married"? Um, he always keep telling me,
like, he was tired of his wife. -Um...
-I never said that. Yes. Yes, Your Honor, he did. He told me
he was tired of her. So, he told you
he was married, -but he said,
"I'm tired of my wife"?
-Yes. -Your Honor.
-[Wilson] Yes. -Your Honor,
may I say something, please?
-That's what they all say. -Your Honor...
-[Wilson] Yes, that's
what he told me. -Your Honor...
-He told me he was tired
of her, she don't cook, Um, all she do was be home,
watch the kids, she's not trying to work,
she's not trying to help me
provide with these children. -Um...
-So, he told you
a series of frustrations he was having
with his wife, but that he had
a wife nonetheless. -Yes.
-But you still decided
to go to the room? -Yes, Your Honor.
-Why? Because at that time, you know,
I was going through a lot. My mom had passed.
So, it's like, you know,
you need that type of... -You were
looking for comfort?
-Yes. -And companionship.
-Yes. -All right.
-[Tiffany McNight]
Excuse me, Your Honor. -Yes, ma'am.
-[Tiffany] May I say
something, please? -Yes.
-Um, what she just talked...
What she just said in here, in court,
that's not what
she told me, on the phone, because she was the one
who initiated contact. When Ms. Wilson
contacted me she said that my husband and, um, her
and some other co-workers were all pretty much
pow-wowing and, uh... [Judge Lake] Pow-wowing? Pow... As in, like,
hanging out. There was nothing sexual
that occurred. Me and Ramon
was having sex every day. Every day we got off work,
he was coming to have sex
with me. -Every day.
-Where, at your house? At my house, at a room,
in her car, the car he bought her. That she got repo'd
'cause she can't pay
the note on it. And then,
on a truck that she got now. We had multiple sex
in that truck, too,
as well. So, let's... Come on, boo-boo.
Let's not get it twisted. Your man be sleeping
with me every night. And he was lying to you,
calling you saying he's doing overtime,
he's with me, in my panties. So, wait. Is that something
you're proud of? No, I'm just...
No, it's not that
I'm proud of it, -Your Honor...
-I'm just letting her
know the truth. -These were the facts.
-Your Honor, see... My position is this,
Your Honor. Yes, I am legally married
to my husband, and that's why I'm standing
by him right now, but as a woman of integrity, I don't have to go
back and forth with
Ms. Wilson, I don't have to try
to degrade her. I felt like some adult
in this position needed to be responsible because Ms. Wilson... Ms. Wilson nor my husband
was doing anything
to find this out. -[Wilson] Your Honor--
-And, and, Your Honor... I'm still speaking, ma'am.
Thank you. And I have children
with my husband. If her daughter is in fact
my husband's daughter, they need to know
their siblings. I am not an immature woman. I don't feel the need to try and keep a man away
from his child. I eliminated myself
from the equation <i> so that if he is the father,</i> <i> he can step up and take care
of his responsibilities.</i> -So, there's no--
-Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. 'Cause I have heard
a lot of testimony from both of the women,
but, Mr. McKnight... Yes, Your Honor. Yes. ...you're not doing
a lot of talking. -Um...
-But you are
the common denominator that runs through
this whole equation. How did you end up in a place
as a married man at your job, -supposed to be minding
the business that pays you...
-[Ramon] Yes, ma'am. ...that you end up
trying to sleep with
Ms. Wilson? It started...
As she said, she did
find my wallet, but it was a co-worker
that used to work with us, he was telling me, like,
"Man, you should try
to get... -You should try to get her."
I was like, "No, man."
-[Wilson] That's a lie. You know, but then
he was like, -"You can go ahead
and get her."
-That's a lie. And the same co-worker, you know, me and him
was sleeping with her
at the same time, me and him used to... Like, me and him
used to converse
before we left work to find out
who was going over there. -That's a lie, Your Honor.
-Oh, that's just about nasty. -That's a lie, Your Honor.
That's a lie, Your Honor.
-Very, Your Honor. -That is a lie.
-So, you're testifying
in this courtroom that there was a co-worker
who told you that you should go try to sleep
with Ms. Wilson? -Yes, Your Honor.
-But that same co-worker
was sleeping with her, too? -Yes, Your Honor.
-Why would he want you to sleep with the same woman
he's sleeping with? I... I don't know,
but a lot of... Is that just how nasty
you men out here are acting? Is it, Jerome? Sometimes.
Sometimes. -Your Honor...
-Yes, Your Honor. Sometimes. No, really,
is this something new? -Not me.
-No, not in Detroit. -Not in Detroit.
-Your Honor. -You said not where?
-Not in Detroit. -Oh, hold on.
I'm from Detroit.
-Not with you. Now, hold on,
let's not bring Detroit in it
'cause I'm from Detroit. -[Ramon] Me, too.
-And there's plenty of
hardworking men that know how to take
their butt home -after they got off work.
-[Wilson] Thank you.
Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. Thank you. You're married. How do you get from work
to in the bed with Ms. Wilson? How do you let yourself
think that's okay? I don't know.
I just was tempted. -I was just tempted.
-How were you tempted? -What was she doing?
-Keep it real. It was just real easy for me
to be with Ms. Wilson. No, it wasn't.
Excuse me, Your Honor.
Can I please talk, Your Honor? You're trying to say that
Ms. Wilson was promiscuous? -[Ramon] Yes, Your Honor.
-No, no. Your Honor, can I please speak? -So, what happened?
-Your Honor, like I said, when I found his wallet,
he was very flirtatious. He was buying me,
um, Skittles, pops,
leaving them for me. Where did y'all go
to have sex? He paid for hotels, my house, his car that he got her
that she got repo'd,
and the truck. I've never... I've never
been with her in my truck. -Your Honor,
may I say something, please?
-[Judge Lake] Yes. -[Wilson] A lot of times.
-Yes, Ms. McKnight. She knew that he was
a married man. And even if he pursued her,
and even if he bought her
all the Skittles in the world, no woman's integrity
should allow them to just sleep with
a married man
or be with him or continue on with him, or continue on
with him knowing that he has
a family at home, even if he
actively pursued her. -[Ramon]
That didn't happen.
-In my panties. I really want you to testify
as to how you even found out? Uh, well, Your Honor,
initially, I found out because, um, Ms. Wilson did,
in fact, call me on Messenger about 20 times,
and she continued
to leave messages. <i> I had no idea
what it was about.</i> <i> I thought that
a co-worker was trying
to reach out to me.</i> <i> Maybe something had
happened to him at work.</i> So, I answered. She told me,
"I just want you to know
because Ray..." 'Cause that's what
some of his co-workers
call him. "...is not telling you
that we're together and we're sleeping
together, and..." Basically, she insinuated
that he was leaving me for her. When I spoke with him
later on, he said that
the reason why... <i> 'Cause he said that
she had told him in advance
she was gonna tell me.</i> And the reason why,
uh, she was upset because she had
gave him an ultimatum and he told her
that he was not leaving
his family for her. -So, she was mad
and decided to contact me.
-That's a lie. So, why did you decide
"I'm gonna call his wife"? So, he's telling
the whole plant
that me and him had sex. So, I said,
"I'm gonna call your wife," and so that's what I did. He told the whole plant
that we had sex and guys was like,
"Oh, Ramon said that
it was good." You're telling them about
our sexual relationship, that's making me look... But my point is this,
you realized he was married, and you realized
you were the mistress. So, at the point,
at that point,
the whole plant knowing, how is that at all relevant -to him telling his wife?
-Your Honor, I was never
his mistress at the job. He was telling everybody
we was together.
I'm not no mistress. Oh, at the job,
he was telling people
that y'all were a couple? -No, I didn't.
-[Judge Lake] But how
was that true if you were sleeping
with his friend, too? -[Ramon] I'm a married man.
-Your Honor. Your Honor. -Your Honor.
-I slept with his friend
way before... Way before I even
met Ramon. We were sleeping with her
at the same time. No. No, that's a lie. -I slept with him way before
I even met Ramon.
-All right. So, after you decide,
you gonna tell the wife, do you break it off
with Mr. McKnight once he says he's clearly
not leaving his wife? Yeah, we stopped
communicating. -[Judge Lake] So, Mr. McKnight.
-Yes, Your Honor. -Do you try to then
work on your marriage?
-Yes, Your Honor. -[Wilson scoffs]
-[Judge Lake] So, how? -[scoffs] That's a lie.
-I did. We have, um... Me and her,
we did go to, uh... Me and my wife,
we went to counseling
through our pastor. And, uh, we was...
You know, we was
working on it. But, clearly, that didn't work
because you're here. Thank you.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Thank you. -[Judge Lake] What happens?
-He was coming
to my department, always helping me,
always flirting with me,
always talks to me, I said, "Ramon, look,
it is what it is.
I'm done with you." He's like,
"I'm gonna get you back." So, one day,
I was bending over
to go put the boxes on the pallet, and Ramon came behind me
and bumped his...on me. He was like,
"I'm gonna get you back." -That never happened.
-Yes, Your Honor,
it has happened. -[Ramon]
That never happened.
-Yes, it was, Your Honor. -[Ramon]
That never happened.
-So, how did that get... How did that get you back? Because if you were
done with him-- [Wilson] Because...
Let's get this clear. He's working with a ten-inch, so that's what got me... It brought back memories
when he did that, and I'm like, "Oh, wow!"
You know what I'm saying? So, you're saying that
Mr. McKnight is well-endowed? Yes. Yes, Your Honor. Yes. [Judge Lake] And you
couldn't stay away? No. No, Your Honor, no. And then, what happened? We start communicating,
then we start having sex
every night. This was when
he was breaking me off
every week, $450. -No, I did not.
-Every night he came
to see me. I know his payday was Tuesday
'cause he'd get a card... He was paying me
$450 every week. [Ramon] No,
I was not, Your Honor. -Yeah, he did.
-There's no way that
that could possibly be true. -It is true.
-And I know the
amount of money -that he brings home.
-He was lying to her. There's no way that
he could have afforded... -Unless he was working
three jobs.
-I have his check stub. -I have his check stubs.
-Yes, she does have
his check stubs. He was supposed to
get me into an apartment.
He was paying me -$450 every week.
Let's get it right.
-No, I was not. -Yes, you was.
-No, I wasn't. Let me see that
evidence, Ms. Wilson. Yes, you was.
It's in my possession
in my purse, boo-boo. -You say Mr. McKnight
was giving you $450 a week?
-[Ramon] Yes. Yes. -[Tiffany]<i> Look at
the check stubs. You will see.
-Yes, he was paying me.</i> -[Tiffany]<i> Look at
the check stubs.
-He was paying me</i> $450 every week.
He was lying to
you, boo-boo, how much he was giving you,
but he was giving me $450
every week. -Were you giving her
$450 every week?
-[Wilson] Yes, you was. -No, Your Honor, it was not...
-On my mama's grave, you lying. -...no $450, Your Honor.
-Ramon, are you lying? -It was not.
-Were you giving
her money? -Yes, Your Honor, because...
-[Judge Lake] Why? Because, um,
it was like she was
blackmailing me. -She was telling me...
-Lies. ...I need money.
'Cause if I don't
get the money, -I'm gonna tell your wife
that you got this baby.
-Lies. -No. No.
-I'm gonna tell this,
I'm gonna tell that. When I... Your Honor,
when I end up pregnant, I called Ramon, -he pulled up, I said,
"Look, Ramon, I'm pregnant."
-[Ramon] And I said... I guess he didn't believe me
so I took the pregnancy test
in front of his face. He was like,
"Oh, you pregnant?"
I said, "Yeah." Ramon McKnight,
he went to the, um,
ultrasounds with me. He's like, "I gotta schedule
in the morning time because
I don't want my wife to know." -I said--
-Oh, you were going to
ultrasound appointments? -[Wilson] Yes, Your Honor. Yes.
-[Ramon] I went to-- -Yes, Your Honor, he was going
to the ultrasounds with me.
-I went to one appointment. -He said, "I wanna know
what we having."
-I never said that. So, hold on. Hold on. Ms. McKnight, I want you
to tell the court how do you find out
about the pregnancy? Well, I'm glad
you asked, Your Honor. I received, like,
about 20 phone calls
back to back on Messenger. When I looked down
and saw the name that
it was Ms. Wilson, I automatically knew,
"Okay. Here we go again." And she was like,
"I just want you to know
that, uh..." You know, Ramon's
sleeping with me,
he's gonna be with me. He gave me his check stubs
so that we can get a place
together. <i> I have a baby
that I had in April.</i> You know, she was
messaging me constantly,
trying to harass me. -I have the evidence here.
-What kind of message -was she sending?
-[Tiffany] She was
harassing me, I'm like, "The audacity for you
to be contacting me about my husband." I couldn't believe it.
I'm like... Did you bring evidence
of those messages? -Yes, I did, Your Honor.
They're right here.
-You're looking at me-- [Judge Lake] Hold on,
Ms. Wilson. Jerome, let me see
those messages. She's very adamant that
she wants a relationship
with my husband. She wants to be with him. And she made it clear
at the end of these messages. -Whoa!
-[audience exclaims] <i> -She said,
"You lying blank."</i>
-[Tiffany]<i> Mmm-hmm.</i> <i> "You just mad he blank
this good blank.</i> <i> "Blank you ain't
stopping blank."</i> And then, you respond,
Mrs. McKnight and say, "Girl, please stop.
You're embarrassing
yourself. That's not my man, baby girl.
That's my husband."
