- Normally when we winter camp, it's in a much, much different situation
than this is right now. - [Tara] We're talking sunshine
and usually the Florida Keys or something like that. Not like this. (upbeat music) It's been a while since
I've done one of those (laughs) I don't, I'm not in a hurry
to do it again either. - I didn't do it. I'm not going to. (laughs) - He said, '' Somebody has
to operate the drone.'' - That's true. - I'll do it from inside. (Chad laughs) - Now, we wanted to take this opportunity, we're obviously camping
in very cold conditions to share some tips with you. - That's right. And we're going to take this inside because it's warm in there and we've been able to
keep it toasty warm, we're going to tell you how
we've handled this situation. - Hm. Let's go inside. - Sure. (footsteps) (upbeat music) - Around this time of the
year, this time being winter, a lot of you reach out and ask questions about winter camping. - Our usual response is, '' We go South.'' - That's the best answer in our book. - That's not the answer we
can give you this year though. So, we are doing something
outside of our comfort zone and we've been in cold climates
for a little while now. - Hm. I think we got into the
single digits last night and we got some snow and it
was very wintery for Christmas. We don't like it, but we learned a lot and I also reached out
to our good friend, Todd, who is a Master Certified
RV IA technician, he's a trainer in the NRVTA, the National RV Training Academy. So, I usually reach out to
him on these kinds of topics to find out what I don't know. - Right, and especially if it's something that we don't have a lot
of experience in ourselves. So, Todd is always our go-to. You've seen Todd in some of
our maintenance series videos, so, he's a great resource. - [Chad] Right. - If you want to be able to fix
80% of the props on your RV, check out our Home Study Course at the NRVTA.com website. If you'd like to earn an income and create a business while on the road, check out our website at NRVTA.info, fill out the form and
start your business today. - Speaking of technical stuff, you're going to hear me say BTU a lot while we're talking about this and BTU is just a British thermal unit, if you're not familiar already, it's just a measurement of heat energy. Why are we using the British thermal unit instead of the Australian thermal unit or whatever, German thermal unit? I don't know, but that's
what everybody uses. - Are there such things? - I don't know. - As usual, we can only talk about our
experience with something, so, that's what we're going to do, we're going to share what's worked, what hasn't worked so far this winter. - Right. And we've only camped down to in the teens and single digits, so, we're not going to have a lot to say about Sub-Zero Siberian camping but we do have some tips that
I got from our friend, Todd, and we'll definitely share those with you. - It felt like Siberia last night. (Chad chuckles) - It did. - So, first, let's talk
about the RV itself and what type of installation
it should really have to help make it more comfortable. - Right. You're going to see a lot of RVs that are three season
rated, four season rated, you may have heard us mention
our three season doors but our RV is four season
rated and quite honestly, that's kind of just an industry term and I think any RV company can call their RV four season rated, I don't know if there's
a standard behind that, but if it's four season
rated, you should be good, you know, if you're traveling
around in a really thin, you know, sticking tin,
which has really thin walls, you're probably not going
to want to be in the teens and definitely not subzero. If your RV can't hold in the
heat and lets it all out, then you're going to be cold. - Well, let's get into talking about the different types of heat
sources that you might have and we're going to save
the furnace for last because we have a lot more
to talk about on that topic. - Right. So, camping in the winter is obviously, you can't do it without a heat source. Just all there is to it. Now, our. - Let's talk about those
crazy tent campers. (Chad chuckles) - Right. You can't start a fire inside
your RV, it's a bad idea. So, our RV and many like
ours have a heat pump and really all that is, is an air conditioner that
can throw us off into reverse and put out heat instead of cold. Now, our heat pump is
rated at 15,000 or 15K BTU, so, you're going to hear me say K BTU, that's just a thousand BTU's and it does a really good
job in 40 degrees and above and the big advantage to
using that over the furnace is that typically, your electric
is included in your site. - Unless you're staying somewhere for, usually a month or longer, then you have to pay for your electric. - Correct. So, you know, if you're like us and you move every couple of weeks and you're just paying for your site and your electric is included, use as much of that electric as you can. - For us, we've had temperatures
much lower than 40 lately and our heat pump doesn't keep up. - Yeah, right. Well, once you get below 40 degrees, it's hard for the heat exchanger up top to pull heat out of the air because that's really what it's doing, you're exchanging heat by
compressing and expanding gas and just can't do very well. It also likes to throw itself into reverse so the coils and things don't freeze and that makes a heck of a racket. - It's right. The first
couple of times we were like, Oh my gosh, is it broken? - Yeah and I don't know why
it makes such a racket. I asked Todd about that and he said, '' Oh, yeah.'' - ''It's normal.'' - '' It does that.'' I thought our thing was
going to fall off the roof. (chuckles) Our other two AC units are strictly AC so we only have one that is a heat pump. Now, I don't know if, I've never really seen RVs
with heat pumps in all three but that might be an advantage
if you have that option. - It also doesn't heat the basement, which is, can be a priority when it's as cold as it is outside. - Yeah. And that kind of falls in line with that kind of 40 threshold, you're not too worried about
your pipes and stuff freezing until obviously you get below freezing but once you do, you
want that area heated. So, again, that probably falls
into the four season rated kind of realm. We also have a fireplace, obviously it's a fake fireplace. (chuckles) Doesn't have real fire, but
it does throw out real heat. Now, I tried to find the BTU
rating for that and I couldn't. Our problem is that our fireplace is right under our thermostat, so if we turn on the fireplace, it tricks the thermostat into
thinking it's warmer in here and shuts off the main heat but it can be helpful on those
nights where it's really cold and you just want to run
every source of heat you got. - So, what we have done
when we need the fireplace is to crank up the
temperature on the thermostat. - Right. To kind of trip the thermostat back. (chuckles) - If you think you're going
to do a lot of winter camping, then a really good idea is to
invest in a good space here. - Right. We have a Dyson AM09, and it's really cool because it's bladeless and
it's quiet and it oscillates and has all kinds of settings on it. It is expensive though, but you kind of get what you pay for. We preferred that versus the kind that have the kind
of heating elements exposed, even the ones that have tip
over protection and stuff, this thing works great and we use it in the garage/office because the garage is a weak
point, thermal energy wise, whether you're talking about heat or cold and we absolutely need the
space heater back there. - But for me, I love the
fact that it doesn't get hot and so I can just easily
pick it up and move it from room to room if need be. - Definitely have at least one, even if your RV isn't like ours with a little bit of a
deficit in the garage, you want to have it as a backup because if your furnace breaks, which we're going to talk about or something had happened with your heat and it doesn't work,
you run out of propane, it's good to have that
extra source of heat in case of an emergency,
or when, like I said, if you're just super, super cold outside and you got to use everything you got. - So, now we're going to move on and talk about our main source of heat, which is the furnace. - Right. And this is powered by propane, which is of course
supplied by liquid propane, that evaporates, there's
a lot to get into there, but ours is a Suburban SFQ-35, which means nothing to you, but it is a 35,000 or 35 KBTU furnace. Now, when I was talking to Todd, he said he recommends a KBTU
for every linear foot of RV and that kind of matches, we're at 44 feet but the last 10 feet of that, our garage, so, I think they kind of figured this is the main living area and the garage is the garage. Like I say, in a toy hauler, if you're going to live in that space, you want a space heater. - One question we get asked a lot is how long will a tank of propane last? - Right. And that's kind of a trick question because just like any
form of stored energy, it's a supply and demand equation. You know, the tank has a
certain amount of energy, you're going to burn a
certain amount of energy and it's a give and take. So, it really depends and
here are some basic figures you'll want to know. I got some of these
figures written down here because numbers are hard to remember. A pound of propane contains
about 21.5 KBTUs of energy. So, a 30 pound tank is going
to contain about 645 KBTUs. If you do some quick math,
we have a 35 KBTU furnace burning 645 KBTUs of energy, it's going to last about
18 and a half hours. But again, that's just, you know, a perfect scenario math equation, the furnace is going to cycle on and off, which is going to give you
a little bit more time, but it's also going to evaporate
slower as it gets colder, so, around 18 hours total use. - Well, I also think it depends on, if you're using it for other
sources other than heat, like for cooking or for
the hot water heater. (Chad mumbles indistinct words) Right. So, you know, it depends on what else you're using it on. And just a little side tip, when you're taking your shower and you want to make sure
you have extra hot water. - Oh, yeah. - Turn on both the electric and propane if your water heater has it,
it replenishes itself quicker and we've never run out of water. - That's nice. Especially when you have
a lot of hair like me. (Chad chuckles) - So, that 18 hours really
means in real practical terms, what we've experienced is
about three and a half nights. We'll go three pretty cold nights and we'll have a little bit left and left to switch it
over and fill our tanks. Another little nugget of
information, you know, we talk about these tanks
and they're already in pounds but when you go to fill it up at a station or wherever you're getting
your propane filled, they are always filled in gallons. So, how do you know you're
not getting ripped off? It's about 4.24, about four and
a quarter pounds per gallon. So, just do some quick math, you know, a 30 pound tank is going to
take about seven gallons. While we're talking
about filling your tanks, a couple of little safety tips: propane, liquid propane,
just like any other liquid, expands with heat but it does it 17 times
faster than say, water. Now, these tanks are
designed to be filled to 80% and that's by design and you always want to transport
them outside your vehicle not inside because of that expansion. Imagine it's 20 degrees out, you get your propane filled, you put it in the back of the car, you turn on the heat and it expands, it can cause really, really bad problems. Also always transport your tanks upright, that valve on top is designed
to hold the gas in there when you turn it on its side, it's not holding gas anymore, it's got liquid hitting it versus gas and you know, just don't do it. - Do you want to mention the gas stop since we're talking about propane tanks? - Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. - All right. - It's a simple little device that goes onto the propane tank itself and they've got them for Class A style and our style with the
tanks and all that is, is if there is a leak, a
fast leak, it shuts it off. Because believe it or not, the OPD valve and the things that are
built into the tank itself does not shut off completely, I tested this myself and it
does continue to leak propane. - And we put a lot of
video together on him testing that out. There will be a link in
the description below. Speaking of furnaces, ours has actually broken
a couple of times. - Yeah. And the first time we were
in the Smoky Mountains in the winter in Franklin and I called the guy that
was in the brochure there for the park and it was Randy Owens and he was a really cool guy. And he let me just his
ear off about furnaces and how they work and he said the thing that goes wrong most of the time and by the way, the symptoms of this are, if you turn your furnace on
and you hear the fan come on, it runs for about a minute
and then just shuts off, is a good chance, it's
this protection circuit that's on the, on ours it's
on the back of the furnace. - Of course. - And of course, it's
always hard to get to and that includes, what's
called a sales switch, which is this little guy right here and you can see it's designed to, as wind blows it, as the fan blows it, (chuckles) it closes the circuit, and also in line with this, is this, which is a thermal switch. So, if either of these has a problem, it's not blowing or it's too
hot, then it shuts it off and that one of these parts going bad is usually the problem. In our case, he replaced our
sales switch and it worked, so, he gave me a spare
and then I bought a spare and then I bought a
couple of thermal switches to have on hand. - Good thing. - Yeah. - Because it didn't happen again. - Exactly. And I was like,
Oh, I know how to fix this, I think, I hope. So, I went out, took it apart and at that time it
was our thermal switch. That's why I have two of
these and one of these, I like to keep a couple of spares since they're nice and small. - You guys know he likes to keep backups which is actually a really good idea if you are a DIY hire and you
like to fix things yourself. One problem that drove me nuts
and still driving me nuts. - I'm sure we're still working on it. - Is the humming noises
that come from the tanks or the holding area or
wherever it's coming from. (machine humming sound effect) - Yeah, that. - That one, that wakes me up
in the middle of the night, usually around 3:00 AM and
then I have to wake him up, which isn't an easy task but I'm like, Oh, baby. - Yeah, that was last night. - That was last night. (Chad laughs)
- I had my earphones then. - He pretended like he
didn't hear me for a while. You did. - I had the earplugs in. - You're like if I lay really still, she'll think I'm really deep asleep. I know. - It's very annoying. It's one of those tones,
it's just a different call. - Oh, once it gets in
there, it's in there. - Yeah. - When you hear the most
annoying sound in the world. (humming sound) - So, with propane, you're
talking about a liquid that's boiling and evaporating off then you have a compressed
gas and the top of the tank that compressed gas has
to go through that valve and then through your regulators
to get to your devices, your furnace and this and that, the furnace is pulling
quite a bit of propane so there's a lot of flow going through those regulators and valves hence the hum. It's like a whistle, just
gas going through a thing. I asked our friend Todd about this also because it was driving us crazy but he was working, but it was humming. Well, anything that drives her crazy will in turn drive me crazy. - I'll make it drive him crazy too. Yeah. - So, he said that, '' The regulators that
are installing the RVs while are good, they're not the best and they do make better
ones that are quieter.'' So, I immediately went on
to Amazon and bought one and I replaced our automatic switchover, which is on the driver's side and connects both tanks to the system, I replaced that and that noise went away. I know that was making noise
because I went out there and I could hear it. Now, as soon as we replaced that one and that noise was gone, we could hear the other side. That regulator was also making noise. (humming sound) So, I replaced that one and
those are both now quiet. However, now the tanks are making noise and that is kind of a thing also and they will make more noise
the lower the propane gets and we were on our last
round of propane last night for this tank so it was making more noise. So, the best thing you can
do is have a full tank, replace the regulators, now, I don't know if there
are better tanks out there, maybe they make some quiet tanks? I don't know. - Well, ours is also positioned
right underneath our heads where we sleep. So, I think that's another reason why we can hear it so clearly. - Another thing about the furnace is, it's ducted to heat our underbelly. So, the furnace will keep all of our tanks and our plumbing and all
that stuff, you know, at a decent temperatures, not going to pump as much of it into there as it does into here, but it
will keep it from freezing. - Right? - Right. We also have heated tanks. Now, we have one little
tank heat button on there, I've never really looked at the tanks to see which ones are heated, I think they're all heated, I don't know, but since our underbelly is heated, I'm not too worried about it, but I do turn it on
just because it's there. Why not? - Well, and it's like 13 degrees outside? (Chad chuckles) - Yeah. And those are
operated off of 12 volts so you don't have to have
anything special just batteries but it will, I don't know
how much juice it draws, we'll find out, we'll
put it on the screen. So, let's chat a little
bit about our experience. This winter has been
the most winter camping we've ever done. We've done off and on over the years but this year we've had a
little more exposure to it. which is why. - I'm not over it. - Which is why we're making this video. - [Tara] Not over it. - The way our thermostat is set up, it runs both the heat pump, electric and the furnace propane but what it's designed to do is, if the heat pump is running
and it can't keep up in there, I think it's a four degree
difference in the set temperature versus the actual measure
temperature inside, it'll kick the furnace on also. - It's actually five. - It is five? It might be five. - I think its five. - It could be. - Four or five. - It's around there, four and a half, let's go four and a half. (laughs) We found it best, if you know the temperature
is going to go below forties into the thirties, twenties and so on, just switch it over
because what happens is, you'll have it set to say 68 and it's got to go all
the way down now to 63 before it kicks on and so, it's kind of
gets super fricking cold and then the furnace kicks on and it catches it up and
then they both shut off and then the whole cycle starts again. Additionally, the heat pump,
not only is it not efficient and doesn't run well
under 40 or 30 degrees, it can actually be a detriment when it gets really, really cold and it just can't exchange
the, get the heat from outside, it's just going to make the air colder. Our experience has been to
just switch them over manually, don't rely on that automatic
switch over to the furnace. - There are some things that you can do to help prevent your hoses from freezing. - One of the things we see
a lot is the heated hose and those things are freaking expensive. Those are not cheap, they're like 150, $180. Now, we don't have one because we don't want to
incentivize winter camping. (laughs) They're big, they're heavy. A much simpler solution if you're only going to be camping in that winter climate temporarily, this is just to disconnect
your hoses from both sides, let them drain, maybe even wrap them up and bring inside if you want. We don't, we'd left them out there, but we'll hook the
water up during the day, we'll run normal water and then if it's going to freeze at night we disconnect everything, we make sure we have water in our tanks and we just go in like boondocking mode. - Hm. We use the water pump. - Hmmh. Since all of our tanks are
heated and everything is inside, we do recommend you close
your gates if you're like us and you keep your gray tank open. When we do keep our grey tank open, we put a P trap in the hose. So, that means if there's
water in that P trap, you want to make sure you drain that. - We do not keep our black tanks open. - No. - Don't do that. - No. We do have a water management video that we'll link below if you're interested in a little more details
on water management but when it comes to
freezing temperatures, talk with the park you're camped in. Sometimes they'll want
you to just disconnect, sometimes they'll try
to sell you a heat hose, sometimes they'll want to know that you're going to hook up a heated hose so that they can insulate the hose bib, so, it really depends on where you are. We find that simple as just to disconnect and use our internal water sources. - Yeah. So, you know, just pay attention to what the temperature
is going to get down to and then go from there. - You'll find that when you're Rving, you're watching the
weather much more closely. You're watching wind
speeds and temperatures to know when you are in an Rving
zone and unlock your hoses. - If you have a toy hauler, like we do, the garage has its own separate area and we have some tips on
some things that you can do to make it more comfortable. - Yeah. It's not really designed to
be lived in, unfortunately, it's designed to be a garage because haul toys in
there, you can get them out but a lot of you like us, use it as some sort of
living space, working space. - [Tara] Bedroom for some. - Bedroom for some and you'll even see online, the different R values for the garage. And the good thing is, it is insulated. It's not like a lot of toy haulers where there's just no insulation at all. So, ''Grand Design'' did a really good job insulating that better than
just your normal toy haulers. - Well, right here we're
looking at the heated and enclosed underbelly. By enclosed, we mean it's
corrugated plastered, that's the first layer of defense against any road debris or
rodents getting up in there. Our Momentum Toy Hauler, is one of the first toy
haulers in the industry to have an insulated garage. We have an R45 value in our garage and we did that by
rearranging the gas tanks and coming up with some
innovative ways of doing that. - For example, just last night, we forgot to check and make sure that the Dyson heater was
on before we went to bed because we'd like to turn
it on and shut the door and keep the office nice and toasty, so when I get up in the morning, I'm not complaining that
it's 60 degrees in there and. - While I'm cozy in bed. - Right, so, when we woke up
in the middle of the night from the propane noises or
whatever the heck that was, I checked to see if the
the office was staying warm and the heater wasn't on but it was in the fifties back there but it was only like you said,
like nine degrees outside, it is pretty well insulated for a garage but you do need help in there. - Now, our furnace does
vent into the garage but only over in the corner
underneath the bathroom door, there's a small little slit there, that's the only thing heating that garage. - Throughout the main
living area of our RV, the vents are all along
the floor and it's nice and makes the bathroom floor
all toasty warm and stuff, I like that. - It's kind of like having
those fancy heated floors like they have in some of those Class As. (chuckles) - Yeah. - But there are a couple
of things that you can do to help improve the situation back there. One is, if you know it's going
to be really, really cold, close the ramp door. We like to keep our patio
down most of the time and we can open up the curtains,
that works out really well but when it gets below
thirties into the twenties, we've got to close the ramp because then we got that whole door. - We do that when it gets
really, really hot outside too. - This is true. Yeah. If it's getting into the
nineties or hundreds, we closed that up, it keeps the cool in just like
it keeps that the cool out, hot in? - Something like that. - Yeah. - Yeah. You know what it means? - Yeah. - I actually have a couple of tips that I don't see that
you have in our notes. I know you got to hold on a minute. This is, you don't even know what I mean, well, you stay there don't look. - I don't want a surprise. - Oh, yeah, this is a
surprise. (Chad laughs) - Should I close my eyes? - [Tara] Well. - I'll close my eyes. - Yeah. You close your eyes. If you're like me.
- Can I open my eyes? - Yeah. - OK. - If you're like me, just
get a good one of these. (Chad laughs) But what I really went back
there to find was the reflectix and they're under the bed and I didn't. - I got some in the garage. - Yeah. I actually do put
this on when I'm really cold. (Chad laughs) - Just kind of rosy. So, this can help. I find this helps more with
heat than it does with cold but it is insulating, you know, it's basically a bubble wrap, it's called - Reflectix. - Reflectix. It comes in rolls, you
just cut it to a size just slightly bigger
than like your window, doesn't take anything fancy,
you just jam it in there for those areas of your
windows that have screens, you pull the screen out,
you jam it in there, you put the screen back on, also during our recent
visit to the Elkhart area and working with Grand
Design and the Lippert, we did get the newer three
season doors installed, we had the old style with
the plastic and Velcro and obviously a little
plastic does not have a lot of thermal switching properties. - Oh, yeah, and the Velcro would bunch up
and there's like little gaps where cold air can get in. - After we got ours, they
started putting it in the new three seasoned
doors that are all glass and they're awesome. I think they make a little
bit of an improvement and they're definitely nicer. (laughs) This is perfect, now, you have this on because we're going to talk
a little bit about some tips when you're camping in
Sub-Zero temperatures. - I feel like a giant baby. (Chad laughs) - Propane will evaporate and boil at 43 degrees
negative Fahrenheit. So, at 44 degrees, propane
stays a liquid, period. If you're going to camp in
below 44 degrees negative, your propane is not going to work but that just brings me to the point of there's a varying degree
between that negative 44 and on up the scale of how efficient and how well propane can
evaporate and basically boil off. And as you start getting
below zero, it becomes closer and closer to not
producing any gas at all. So, what happens is, if you reach a point where your furnace is
trying to pull more propane than can possibly boil off due to physics, at that level, your furnace just shuts off and you are screwed. - I'm still trying to imagine why anybody would want to do that. (Chad laughs) - Well, you know, some people do camp in extreme temperatures. Now, the way to mitigate
that are some tank warmers, you can buy some 12 volt little
hings that wrap around them, Todd mentioned maybe just
wrapping them in a blanket and keeping what heat is there in. There are a couple of things you can do, but if you're going to camp below zero, be prepared for that,
have some plan in place, do some research and figure out, you know, what you can do to mitigate that. - Sometimes people have those
really large propane tanks if they're gonna be stationary
in the winter for a while. - Yeah. Even here, we've seen that, when you're going to be in
winter camping for a long time, like I said, those 30 pound
tanks last about three nights, so we're getting propane
probably every week, and that just becomes old. Now, we're in a park where I
could just set the propane out by the end of the road and a
magical propane ferry comes. - [Tara] I mean, how do we do it because that's a kind of rarely guys, usually you have to load
them up in the truck and go find a place to get them filled up. So, you may pay a premium
price to get that filled, but I think it's worth it. - You can, if you're going to
be in an area for a long time call the local gas company. A lot of times they will bring
out a supplementary tank, nice, big tall one and ours are 30 pounds, I guess the taller ones
might be a hundred pounds, I don't know. - People have asked us before about like, if you get a lot of snow and
skirting and all of that, we've never had to do that,
hopefully we never will. - Yeah. Obviously, if you can
take the sides of your RV and essentially extend
those to the ground, you're going to have a
little bit better insulation underneath your belly as
well as in the underbelly and it is a valid option to
camp long-term in the winter. - [Tara] Daisy is not
a fan of snow or cold, just like her mama. - So if you liked this video,
please click the like button and hit the subscribe
button that helps us out, that tells YouTube that,
you know, we're all right. - And we have another
video coming right up that you might like as well. Right, Daisy? (Chad chuckles) (beep) Oh, I don't know why I
thought this was a good idea. - [Chad] This is all you, all your idea. - I know but you could take
what could do it with me. - [Chad] I got to fly the drone. - I got to fly the drone. (thumping footsteps) Its so cold. (Chad chuckles.) - If you don't know,
this is like the second or third time we've done this because we've had noise
and technical problems, '' Start a YouTube channel,''
they said,'' It'll be fun.'' - Yeah. The camera just decided not to record. - Yeah. - So, it's good time. (Claps) - Let's go. - ''Go South.'' (Chad chuckles) But this year is completely different. (humming sound) (thumping footsteps) I mean, the site next to
us has been empty for days and when you know it, as soon as we get the
camera out and hit record, we have somebody backing
into the site next to us. Wait, hold on. Whoa! - Just lie down, there's
nothing going on.. - I know, mommy's stressed. She says, '' My feeling, mommy's stressed. Start all over.'' - Okay. - Okay. - And for those of you who don't know, (humming sound) really, an Amber alert? (Chad laughs) You just can't make it. - I'll get it up. - You can't make it now, we got to silence all
of our phones and watches. - I mean, I don't like having
any more, seeing Amber alert. So. - No, I can't to read this. - You can't read it? - A pound of protein. - Protein. (Chad laughs) - [Chad] A pound of protein. God, damn! (ding sound) - Okay. - So, if that's something
you're interested in, you know, look into it, go online and, you know, (blabbering) - That's awesome, you did great. The snow is blowing, it's blowing. Ready? - [Chad] Yeah.
