Why We Venerate Images

so for those who follow online uh discussions and battles and polemics there has been a recent polemic about icons um you know some people put out some videos criticizing the Orthodox use of icons um and so many people have asked me to respond and in some ways I guess I will but I'm not going to respond in the same manner I'm not a person I'm not a scholar and I not a big fan of the scholarly approach and trying to justify this or that from proof text and to justify the accuracy or you know the falseness of this or that Source or this or that text you know I have nothing against that it's fine and in some ways I'll leave other people to do that but I do think that there is a deeper issue that gets ignored when we are looking at the question in that way and the deeper question is something like the very thrust of Revelation itself the very way in which God is Redeeming the world in the biblical story and you could say in the Universal story and so that is the way that I want to look at it to kind of look at things maybe back up a little and ask questions that people as they get into the details of things seem to not be asking and so that's the way we're going to look at it this is Jonathan Pedro welcome to the symbolic world [Applause] [Music] now of course the first way thing to start with is to start with the text right the the prescription which is that in the Ten Commandments but not just in the Ten Commandments obviously in several other places there is a prescription about making images that prescription is let's say the root of it could be said to be in the Ted Commandments all the other uh descriptions of it are like let's say exemplifications or detailed version of the law that you will not make graven images uh You Will Not Bow Down and Worship them you will not make images of false gods and and you will not bow down before them you won't worship the images of false gods now of course most people will understand that this is not a prescription against images themselves because you know just a few moments although some people go that far but I think that's quite dishonest because further on in the text God will tell Moses to have images made have it have images made on the veils of the temple have images made you know on the Ark of the Covenant to have these angels carved on the Ark of the Covenant and uh and then ultimately in the temple there will be several images there'll be Bulls there'll be images of fruits uh and and different types of images but the Cherub are the most important to understand because the Cherub are described as at least partly human figures that that have uh human faces um we don't know what the cherubs look like in the in the the carvings I honestly think it was probably something like a a sphinx of some kind you know because they're described as being a mixture of different animals and human so that's neither here nor there so it's so the idea is that it's not necessarily of course a criticism of uh image making but it is a criticism of making idols and also bowing down and worshiping in front of these Idols now what's interesting to ask is the questions that I guess some people don't don't ask which is what's the deal with the second commandment what is the reason for the second commandment as Christians we need to ask that why is there a second commandment so another example of course there is a commandment about uh you know following the Sabbath which is right next to the Commandment uh about images and you know most Christians do not celebrate the Sabbath and so why is that why don't we celebrate the Sabbath and the answer is usually Christ the answer is that the reason for that let's say commandment was revealed in the person of Christ and you know Christ in his descent into death let's say accomplished the greatest Sabbath and because of that we celebrate the resurrection as a kind of new beginning as the you know the Fulfillment of the Sabbath into a day of eternity and so that is the the reason why we celebrate the the Deep reason you know why we celebrate on Sunday rather than celebrate on Saturday and we believe and I hope people believe this or else why are you not celebrating the Sabbath we believe that the reason for the second command this the the Commandment about the Sabbath is Christ and Christ reveals to us the deepest meaning of this commandment and so that is true of you know I would say most of what is in scripture if we can see in scripture the key that Christ brings to it then that is the highest aspect of it and I think that that's the question we need to ask again why do we have the second commandment what is the purpose of it and so of course it makes sense that you wouldn't want to make images of false gods because you know like you won't want to worship false gods that it would be of course completely inappropriate but the question is why didn't God give us an image of himself and of course then the problem is well of course God doesn't God is beyond that right God is in heaven God is Spirit God is Not uh something that can be seen you see all over in scripture right the the the notion that God is telling Moses that you cannot see my face if you see my face it will destroy you right it will it will it's not in some ways that God doesn't have a face but that his infinite face or however you want to phrase it will consume reality if you are if you come into contact with it and so because of that then Moses cannot look at God's face and no one is allowed to look at God's face now again we have to ask ourselves the question what is the reason for the second commandment and so we need to think about it also in another way it's like is there a place in scripture where it is said that there is an image of God can we find that and I think the answer is yes and I think the answer is that the image of God in Scripture is man the image of God in scripture is Adam and this of course makes sense even more now of the second commandment because there is a sense in which the image of God in man has been tarnished or has been broken or has been disfigured and so because of that it is no longer accessible and this seems to be something which is going on in for example the very revelation of the Ten Commandments because what happens when God when Moses really comes into the very presence of God his face His Image the visual aspect of him begins to shine with Glory so much that just as in a lower way but just as we cannot look upon the face of God the Israelites cannot look upon the face of Moses and he has to Veil himself he has to cover his face because you could say in some ways the face of the the image of God is being restored in Moses but it is too much for people to be able to tolerate and so just as there are veils on the temple Moses puts a veil on his face in order to cover the radiance of his transformation this is pretty amazing things it's pretty amazing if you kind of now start to understand that there's something in the very thrust of Revelation which is moving towards this idea of the restoration of the glory of God in man the restoration of the glory of God in the image of man because think about it is visual that is he had to hide his face from the sight of others because in that face there was too much Glory there was too much going on for people to be able to stand now I think that this continues on in the notion of of the Revelation uh in scripture and so there is this movement from something like the name from something like that which is invisible that which is spiritual into that which becomes visible and embodied that is of course the very uh movement from the glory of God into the Tabernacle itself it is the same movement that I'm telling you about how there's this glimmer this transformation of Moses as he comes down the mountain but this gets taken up as Revelation progresses and that as God promises to fill the world with his Spirit to fill the world with his glory so in the prophetic text we start to see a very strange thing uh start to happen so in the prophetic text all of a sudden this image of man starts to appear and it's very uh very fascinating because what is going on in this question so in the Book of Daniel and in the Book of Ezekiel the prophets have this perception they see on a throne sitting next to God you know let's say it's sitting and it's important to understand that the figure is sitting it's the figure is not standing if the figure was standing we would understand that the figure is like an angel that is serving the King right like a servant serving the king but no there is a throne there and the figure that is there is sitting on the throne and in sitting on the throne he becomes the one that is served the one that has to be served by the angels and what does what did the prophets see they see the figure the image of someone like the son of man of someone that has the image of the son of man this is very fascinating isn't it what's going on all of a sudden the possibility of seeing this figure standing next to a sitting in the throne next to the next to the throne of God and also being let's say in the glory of God and so right this image that Ezekiel describes of the the four uh cherubs like these four these four wheels of a chariot that is like the Earth itself and above you know sitting you know surrounded by a rainbow uh on a throne is this image of the son of man now of course you know most Christians will understand that what he's seeing is is the Divine logos but already the logos as in the figure of a man that is already Christ uh as being the one who will now I'm gonna push you a little bit who will restore the image of God in man and so this is what's going on that's why he's seeing a son of man even before we know who that is he's seeing a son of man sitting on a throne next to God because that in some ways is the plan of God from you know from the fall itself is to restore not even before that even in the creation of man the the purpose of God was to instill His Image into the world you know uh and and now it is to restore it in Christ so this is what is going on so it's all kind of there in the thrust of Revelation and we can understand it like I said as a very let's say as the very structure of Revelation itself that is moving from Heaven down to earth moving from the invisible to the visible moving from the you know the let's say from the invisible uh or glory to the our light into space and of course I think also moving from name into image um and the idea in some of these polemical videos that the Christians at the early centuries had no concept of this at all where we're not at all aware of any of at least the thrust of this movement I think is is a little dishonest so I'm going to read for you uh a text an apocryphal text and it's an apocryphal text that is not in Scripture but it will it's an apocal text that was written between the first and the third Century it's called the life of Adam and Eve and in this you get a sense that at least the Christians and the late Jews had an understanding of what it is that was going on and the relationship between the fall of Adam and the second commandment you know it's like I you always have to ask yourself what is the second commandment for what is its purpose and so I'm going to read from you from the book of the life of Adam and Eve and so now it is the it's the devil speaking the devil says oh Adam all my hostility envy and sorrow is for thee since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory which I possessed in the heavens in the midst of the angels and for thee I was cast out in the earth Adam answered what does thou tell me what have I done to thee or what is my fault against thee seeing that thou has received no harm or injury from us why does thou pursue us the devil replied oh Adam what does thou tell me it is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place when thou was formed I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the Angels when God blew into Thee the breath of life and thy face and likeness was made in the image of God Michael also brought thee and made us worship thee in the sight of God and God the Lord spake here is Adam I have made thee in our image and likeness and Michael went out and called all the Angels saying worship the image of God as the Lord God hath commanded and Michael himself worshiped first and he called me and said worship the image of God worship the image of God the Lord and I answered I have no need to worship Adam and since Michael kept urging me to worship I said to him why Dost thou urge me I will not worship an inferior and younger being than I I am his senior in the creation before he was made I was already made it is his duty to worship me when the Angels were under me heard this they refused to worship Him and Michael Seth worshiped the image of God but if thou will not worship Him the Lord God will be wrath with thee and I said if he be wrath with me I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the highest this is of course the oldest version of the fall of Satan not of falling before the creation of humans not before not falling you know in this Ancient Ancient way that is described in more recent texts but Falling because he did not agreed to bow down to the image that God had put of himself in the world in Adam let's say the late Hebrews and the early Christians they had a sense that there was a direct relationship between the notion of the image in the fall of Adam and the notion of the image in the second commandment I do believe so and that and also not just that but the movement in the revelation of how the son of man appears sitting on a throne next to God now of course this will be come to be fully kind of revealed in the person of Christ as being the image of this son of man of this restoration of the of the of the image of God in man the restoration of the place of man sitting on the throne next to God uh in the person of Christ and and the early Christian artists knew this very very well and so some of the very first uh some of the earliest art that still let's say survives iconoclasm uh in it you will see that this is what they are representing so this is an image of the Ascension of Christ from the rabulla gospel which is a Syrian uh gospel from the 6th century and so in this image you see a Christ as exact it's the Ascension but it's the Ascension represented as Christ being the son of man Christ being on the Chariot of the of the cherubim you know represented in this particular way with the four heads and the wheels and the eyes and that this is the restoration this is the full revelation of what is being hinted at of what is being suggested in the Book of Daniel and in the Book of Ezekiel and so the idea that it might have taken Christians time to fully understand the scope of what the story of Christ was bringing of what the Incarnation the consequences of the Incarnation for us is something that I can I can understand you know and and I think that pushing very hard to act as if the early fathers of the church were completely aware and hadn't totally you know dealt with what was what the relationship between what the consequences of all the consequences of the Incarnation of Christ were I I'm okay with accepting that but it doesn't change the thrust of what is happening and so it's interesting because in you know in some of the polemic videos there's this sense that there is no difference between veneration and worship that there is no difference of levels between you know bowing down uh and worshiping God in the sense of acknowledging you know God as being the highest and being the source of all things and I think that that is that's a dishonest take you know there are many images of uh let's say the relationship an honorable relationship towards mediation in scripture you know uh there is of course the the image of Joshua who bow Downs before bow bows down before the Ark of the Covenant you know you have images different places where people bow down to each other and so the idea that people couldn't distinguish bowing down before something to honor it to see it in a vehicle let's say of God's of God's grace or God's presence and then the the absolute worship of God himself I think that is that's a dishonest statement uh you know people did bow down before Kings bow down before all these things and you know about and the idea that there's no relationship at all like bowing down before a king you know it's not connected in any way to bowing down before other things it's it's ridiculous it really is an understanding of power and understanding of authority an understanding of something which is at least it is showing us how the authority of God works with us it's a mediated version of God's uh God's Authority on us uh the idea that we would be willing to bow down to that is completely normal in in the Old Testament uh and so I don't see that I don't see that that's an honest argument to say that there's no distinction between the two um and the best example of that is actually not in the physical bowing down but it is in the way that the people in the Old Testament praise the name of God and so it's very interesting right uh you see so many examples of it right in uh Nehemiah 956 stand up and praise the Lord your God uh who is from Everlasting to Everlasting Blessed Be Your glorious name it may be exalted above all blessings and praise uh of course in the Psalms there are so many versions of this um and it's interesting because in Psalm 99 there's a version of it uh and uh we can look at it because it's fascinating it says the Lord Reigns the nation's tremble he sits and thrown between the cherubim let the Earth shake and so it's insane that he sits and thrown between the cherubim the glory of God on the Ark of the Covenant right great is the Lord in Zion he's exalted over all the nations let them Praise You great and awesome name he is Holy the king is mighty he loves Justice you have established equity in Jacob you have done what is just and right exalt the Lord Our God and worship at his footstool he is Holy and so it's fascinating because in one of the polemical videos uh there's trying to deconstruct this as if this is not suggesting that people are worshiping in front of the Ark of the Covenant or that the Ark of the Covenant is in some ways the place that you bow down that you that you are let's say relating to in order to uh worship God but then just you know two two two uh verses up you see that there is a relationship to that mediation because he's saying praise your great and awesome name and then after that he says exalt the Lord and worship at his footstool and so both of those examples are examples of praising and elevating and and bring and let's say uh acknowledging and you could use the word venerating that's totally fine the the the mediations that God gives us that reveal him to us and so it's important that you be able to tell the difference unless you think that the that the Israelites worship the name of God in the same way that they worship God himself and I don't think that is fully that is acceptable in any way and so the reason why they're able to worship at the footstool the reason why they're able to praise the holy name is that these are mediations that God has given to them himself and so because God has given this this this uh revelation of him we are we celebrate we venerate we raise up these these uh these mediations um because it's by these mediations that we're able to encounter God in the world so now you would say that's not true of images and the answer is you're right not in the Old Testament for sure that's not true but why why is it not true why is it not possible God made an image of himself in the Garden of Eden why can we not venerate the image of God the way that we venerate the name of God the way that we venerate the Ark of the Covenant it is because God is working to restore that image in US you know and there are already hints of that right I think there are hints of that already in the in the Bible where you see uh people bowing down before each other it's not totally clear like there are different reasons why you bow down but nonetheless the whatever reason it is the lowering of yourself in front of someone else has a structural relationship you're lowing yourself and you're raising up someone else when you lower yourself you're raising up someone else so there's no difference between praising the holy name and bowing down before something those are the same thing they're both making yourself lower in relationship to something so they're they're just the same thing um so the answer to that is that God gives us an image of himself God restores the image in Christ and so the image becomes a place of revelation of God and not only would I go say that but I would say that the reason for the second commandment the spiritual reason for the second commandment is a promise that God will give us an image of himself that God will restore the image of himself that has been tarnished and broken at the fall and that is Christ so the image becomes a mode just like the name becomes a mode of Revelation and people will get caught up in the technicalities of it like people will say well we don't really know what Jesus looked like so you can't really represent him uh blah blah blah blah blah like this is irrelevant this is Irrelevant for the same reason you can say well you didn't hear the name of God in your ear when God said it so you don't really know how to pronounce it and so you shouldn't be you know you shouldn't in any ways think that you have access to the name of God uh that it is a question of mode and so when we praise the name of Jesus we know that the way we say Jesus is not the same way that it was said in the first century uh and that's okay you know that's not the point is not to be to be to be completely technically accurate obviously you can't I mean there's a there's a range right there's a range of recognizability you can't decide that the name of Jesus is Oscar and then prays the name of Oscar but it also isn't about just about being technically accurate the same thing is for the image we have a way to recognize the image of Christ we have a a way that has been that has been fostered and received in the Church of recognizing the image of Christ and we see the image of Christ as a mode of revelation of God and this this is something that we should be that I it's like I said I understand where it took time for the Christians to see them but it's something we should be rejoicing of because it is a proof of the rest of iteration of what it's a it's an arc that starts in Genesis and moves all the way into Revelation as you know the the image of the holy city which comes down from heaven the space which is filled with the glory of God you know then now the image of the son of man sitting on a throne that you find in Revelation you know is another version of that is another version of the fulling The Filling of the presence of God in the world and so I mean that's mostly what I wanted to help you understand is that if you I understand people getting caught up uh in the in reading that Source text and looking at what this or that church father said or didn't say where the holes and where the proof like that's fine some people need to do that but I think that the I think that the argument uh is made much far more deeply from the very thrust of what Revelation is and from the very thrust of the entire Narrative of of scripture and so you know as Orthodox Christian we see just like we see in the name of Jesus and in the name of God a place where God has revealed himself to us and so we we praise the name of Christ we we praise the name of God uh and we also see in the image a place that God has revealed himself and that that that Revelation is a is a fulfillment I think it's a fulfillment of a great story which starts at the beginning uh in Genesis so I hope this has been useful and I know it won't convince people that that are looking you know to that that have a kind of let's say a technical way of reading that want to just see the proof text and the source text and and like and try to to encode it that way and all I would ask you to do is to maybe pull out a little bit and ask yourself the bigger questions the bigger questions of what is the thrust of the entire story so I hope this was helpful to at least some of you uh thank you for your attention and uh talk to you very soon

Channel: Jonathan Pageau

Views: 39,462

Keywords: symbolism, myths, religion

Id: bSo3ThY9D0M

Length: 30min 23sec (1823 seconds)

Published: Fri Feb 03 2023